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27 Jul 2010
Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Suck it, Andre Caldwell.
53 comments, Last at 31 Jul 2010, 6:15pm by R. Carney
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Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Snort it, M Jones.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Oh, come on people, this comment deserved some props. I give it an A+.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
You can't give Raiderjoe an A+, you fool!
He can spell it!
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Works for me.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Why not? The offense doesn't have much time left, with CHad up there, and Palmer at 30. He can be an adequate possession guy. He won't even be the craziest wide receiver in the locker-room. I don't see this failing.
Cincinnati continues its weirdly smart offseason of bolstering a good but not great team with low risk but possibly medium to high reward players like him, Pacman (who can be cut any time), Gibril, etc.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Not really worth making a joke now that Raiderjoe has laid that down as a marker. I was going to make a rather lame, smart-alec comment about inmates running the asylum.
I will say that I don't really understand why the Ravens are everyone's favourite for the AFC North, especially when their cornerbacks are pretty poor. The Bengals lost to the Jets last season when Revis took Ochenta y Cinco away and there was nobody else to throw to, this year he'll have Owens, Bryant and Gresham. If Odom is healthy then the Bengals are Karl Cuba's Proletariat Pick for the Division, and maybe the AFC Championship.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
I think the Ravens are better than the Bengals on offense and defense, so that's probably why they are favored. The Ravens have been running crappy CBs out there for quite some time (I've seen quite enough of Frank Walker and Corey Ivey), but their D has been good b/c the front 7 is sick.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
OK, I probably should have said that I didn't understand why the Ravens were so overwhelmingly touted as the favourite. Both have good offensive lines and both have good running backs though I might give the edge in both to the Ravens, with the addition of Gresham, Bryant and Owens, I'll take the Bengals' receivers and I'd take Palmer over Flacco next season. I think that's even-ish, though personally I'd prefer the Bengals' offense.
As for the Ravens' D, Ngata is a beast, Suggs and Johnson are good and Ray-Ray is still his effervescent self but Gregg, Pryce and Redding are not what they were. How healthy is Ed Reed? The Bengals defense was much improved last season, led by the best corner tandem in the league, and really fits Zimmer's scheme. Mualaga and Rivers are improving young linebackers as well, I think that the talent level here is getting close to the Ravens. A big key is a full season from Odom, though Dunlap could help. Roy Williams might have gone from being hte most overrated player in the game to a current state where he's underrated and he's had his best performances playing for Zimmer, who asks him to play near the line of scrimmage.
And if the Ravens are such a cut above the Bengals, why did Cincy win the division last year?
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Well, Cincy won the division b/c they swept the Ravens, of course! I thought the Bengals were a horrible matchup for the Ravens last year, the Ravens couldn't move the ball at all vs. them. Their CBs completely manhandled the Mason and co., and Rice couldn't do anything w/ 8 in the box. Its possible a strong WR like Boldin will have a better time of it, along with their new pass receiving TEs (Dickson and Pitta) and deep threat (Stallworth).
I don't think Ed Reed is crucial to the Raven's D, in fact their pass defense improved while he was out injured last year. Their DL and LBs are absolutely stacked with young talent, though, you've gotta know by now that Ozzie Newsome knows what he's doing.
The Bengals could be good again, but I haven't seen Cleveland or Cincy post back-to-back good seasons in a decade. I suspect this is because of incompetent management, a personnel group that hasn't changed.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
The Bengals have added a decent TE prospect too. The Bengals looked like they were beginning to put a good side together a few years ago, right up to the point when Palmer's knee was wrecked and they've been trying to get back there ever since.
Basically, the point I was trying to make was that the two teams look a lot more even to me than the general concensus would suggest. My view is that the Bengals take it because their quarterback has more experience but I do think it's close.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
I think that if one thought the Ravens were the better team before this signing, then one would think that they still are. I would think that if one thought the Bengals were the better team before this signing, then one would think that they still are.
How's that for thinking? The 2010 version of Terrell Owens isn't going to tip the scales in either direction. If Bryant were healthy, I don't think Cincy makes this trade. I'd rather see them get Andre Caldwell more involved in the offense.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Don't forget Shipley! And we bolstered our d-line with Dunlap and Atkins...
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
very otugh call who is bteter now Balti or Cincy.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Was Raiderjoe sober when he made his first (and awesome) post??
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
yes had one drink before. drnak another after. not enough to get durnk just a boring Tuesday
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
If Raiderjoe is on twitter, he could beat out Kutcher easily.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Karl Cuba I understand where you are coming from. The Bengals have an awesome defense, their o-line should be even better this year with C-Cup Smith and the offense suddenly has a plethora of above average weapons. Sure TO isn't what he used to be, but as a #2/#3 he can be effective. At the very least he will be an upgrade on Anus Coles who was atrocious last year.
More than anything I think this is worse news for the Steelers. Pencil the Ravens in for 10-11 wins and the Bengals for 9-10 and I just dont see the Steelers matching that with ol handsy missing 4-6 games.
The Browns still stink.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
If Smith is a C-cup, then what does that make Cody?
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
He was a #2 receiver last year and he wasn't all that effective.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Carson Palmer > FitzEdwardsBrohm
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
womnder if Cinc going to open uip offense this seaosn. very crappy passing numbers last two years. In 08 lot haev to do with C Plamer being injured and R Fitzpatrick ghetting lot of playing time. Fiytzpatrick not have good arm so tema went with short passing game. really pathetic yards per attmept and yards per completion numbrs.
what was excuse in 09? Maybe FOA 2010 have answer. will get book soon and maybe benagsl sectin have answer.
Palmer played whole year but still had short dink and dunk offense. Look at A Caldwell, 62 cathces and average less thna 9 yards eahc catch
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Carson Palmer has a short dink? Raider Joe, you're a fountain of obscure knowledge.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
The pass blocking wasn't great, so the Bengals used the "dink and dunk" to good effect to stop Palmer from being killed. Palmer was also slightly injured still.
Anyway, I will imagine that TO will allow Ochocinco to go deep a little more, but it needs to be seen if he can still do that at a consistent basis.
I will say this, outside of the Wild Card game (which I guess is hard to just discount like that), the Bengals seemed to always be able to move the ball through the air when necessary. They always struck through the air against BAL and PIT, and against SD, in their biggest regular season game for seeding purposes, they were able to throw pretty well.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Not against the Vikings when Carson threw for 95 yards. Carson only had a single 300 yard game all year. But I get your point.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Supposedly Marvin Lewis said Andre Caldwell was the most improved Bengal coming into camp...and coaches are unhappy with Antonio Bryant, and he may go on PUP...so Owens would be 2, Caldwell 3.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Weird pickup.
I read an article a few years ago about the Bengals and one of the reasons they had so many problems in the locker room was because their scouting department was so comparatively skimpy compared to other teams that they just didn't have any information on late round picks, no name free agents, etc, and had to go after "big names" because they just didn't have any data on anyone else.
I've seen very little to say that anything has changed.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
nice pickup
He was still pretty good last year given he was in the Bills offense.
Think the Bengals offense is better and for the bengals they have the receiving corpse to attack the Steelers and Ravens at their weak spots.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Has anyone taken the time to look at the Bengals schedule? It's brutal. They won't win more than 7 games this year. People commenting are falling into the same trap every "pundit" in the media does. "X" team was good last year, so I can only see them doing the same this year. That doesn't translate year to year. There are too many variables in football. What happened last year means nothing. The match ups are different, the schedule is different, the circumstances are different...one play here or there changes a game.
You do realize that the last three Super Bowl winners have all won between 8 and 10 games the season before. So the whole media mentality of "this team was good last year" doesn't hold up.
Look at the Bengals schedule from last year and notice all the close games? Not to mention the fact they lost four out of their last seven games, include a loss to the Raiders, while barely beating the Lions, Browns and Chiefs.
Sorry, Bengals not winning more than 7 games this year.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
You do realize that you made an argument against relying on the past performance of team X that is wholly reliant on the past performance of other teams? The projected performance of every opponent on the Bengals' schedule - which you call "brutal" - is based on how they fared last year.
If last year is not indicative of this year's expectations, the Bengals don't have a brutal schedule. You're saying you have no idea what their schedule holds, which makes your predicted maximum of 7 wins odd.
My thoughts on your thoughts? You think the Bengals were "overrated" last year and are grasping at straws to justify what you think will be a drop-off in the standings. You even have the audacity to blame pundits for being poor analysts! Physician, heal thyself.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Well if they go 4-2 in their division (ie. sweep Browns, split with Ravens and Steelers) and then they have easy games against Carolina, Tampa and Buffalo. That's 7 wins right there so basically you don't think they will win ANY of their other games. I think that this team is better than that.
You do have a point that their two games against the AFC South and AFC West are pretty tough, San Diego and Indy, certainly much tougher than the Ravens games from those divisions but they get San Diego at home in week 16, which should help.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
4-2 in the division is a pretty big assumption. Unless Palmer was hurt at the end of last year and has healed, the Bengals have problems. He threw the ball terribly. Plus, both point differential and DVOA say they were about a .500 team that got a little lucky. Seems right to me. They have better receivers now but on the other hand should not expect to get as much production from Benson.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
With regards to that Jets game, the Bengals were an awful matchup for the Jets as they only had one decent reciever, who Revis eliminated from the game. After that who was he going to throw to? They've added Gresham and now Owens, that will help.
I love DVOA but it isn't everything, for example, what would the DVOA be of that Brandon Stokely TD at the end of the Denver game?
Why would you expect to get less production from Benson?
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Because Benson's productivity declined markedly as the season went on, and he seems to be having troubles off the field again, which will attract the league's interest.
With those givens, and the team's determination to try and take the focus of the offense off him, it's not unreasonable at all to expect less production from him. I'd say it's almost a guarantee, even if he doesn't have to pay a visit to the Grand High Commissioner.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Mostly because Benson's never been close to that productive before.
I don't understand your point about DVOA and the Stokely TD. One of the good things about DVOA is that it discounts fluky plays like that, which are obviously very important in any single game but are not predictive of future performance. So Cinci gets "credit" in DVOA for that bit of bad luck. Trouble is, they had more than enough good luck throughout the rest of the season to balance it out and ended up, on net, as luckier than the average team.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
It's Carolina without Delhomme--that's not going to be so easy that we can just proclaim it for Cincinnati now.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
No Peppers either. Who on earth are their starting defensive linemen?
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
DE: Everett Brown and Charles Johnson are both supposed to have at least serious potential as pass rushing defensive ends (I haven't seen either play, so I don't know if that's accurate, but it's what I've heard). Tyler Brayton is also in the mix at DE, and he seems to be a solid run stopper who isn't much of a pass rusher.
DT: Tank Tyler is really quite a good run defender but completely incapable of rushing the passer. Louis Leonard is described in FOA this year as a "journeyman [who] played well in two games at nose tackle" last year, and that's really all I know about him.
You have a point, though, especially if you add in that Thomas Davis is also gone.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
I don't think the Bengals winning 7 games is that far fetched. They open up the season with for four of their first six games on the road. The only two gimmies on their entire schedule is the Bucs and Bills. Anyone who thinks those Brown games will be easy is kidding themselves. I think they split against the Browns and Ravens and get swept by the Steelers.
Loses:
Steelers (2)
Ravens
Browns
@New England
@Atlanta
@Indy
@Jets
Saints
Wins:
@Carolina
Bucs
Miami
Buffalo
San Diego (Week 16, Chargers may have the division already with their easy schedule)
Ravens
Browns
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Do they have to play the 2008 Steelers?
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
As a die-hard, homer, optimistic Bengals fan here is my take on the problems on offense.
The underlying problem?
-- The excuse given by the organization was that they spent all offseason implementing a 2 TE offense that they could no longer run when Reggie Kelly and Utech were injured. If that was the problem then it won't be this year. Even the Bengals wouldn't run a 2 TE offense with 2 untested TE, Kelly coming off a season-ender, and freaking Coats.
--Palmer may have been off last season and maybe affected by injury. Obviously if he is still not playing well the Bengals are screwed. Subjectively he seemed to play well when the offense actually opened up. He also has much better pro-rated traditional stats before Chris Henry went down. L. Coles never clicked with Palmer and at least 2 interceptions were thrown when he should have been slanting but did not.
--Bob Bratkowski: This is the most hated man in Cincy. Evidence that he is bad includes his offenses beyond 2005, tweets that Marvin has wanted to replace him with Hue Jackson but had his hands tied by Mike Brown, and the subjective opinion of every football watching citizen in the Cincinnati area. Evidence that he does not suck include tweets that Marvin may have forced him to reign in the offense due to wanting a ball-control defense team and not having any downfield threats anyway.
That probably won't help anyone decide how they feel about the Bengals.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
I often wonder how handicapped Lewis is by Mike Brown, and maybe someday he'll leave and pull a Bill Belichick.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Captain(not so)Obvious,
Being a bengal fan and certainly not an avid FO insider, I read through this entire article and had no intention of posting a response to any of it until I got to yours. An outright assumption of a Steelers sweep of the Bengals this year is surely an incredible prediction given the results from last year and the cumulative effect of their respective off-seasons. In my perusing of various NFL pundits, nearly all of them have the Steelers ranked below the Bengals and the assumption that I would be prepared to make is that none of the AFC North insiders would agree that two Steeler victories is a given.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
corretc, wadergerm. Bengals not goingn to get swept by steelers. not likely anywya. Bengals good team.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Yeah, because the Bengals have had SO much success against the Steelers outside of last year, right? But the pundits have the Bengals ranked ahead of the Steelers. Great argument, because those predictions always hold up, right?
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Um, they've had enough successs.
They've split 1-1 in 2003, 2005 and 2006. Steelers swept in 2004, 2007, 2008 and Bengals swept in 2009. Not exactly overwhelming either way.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
So the Steelers sweeping THREE times -- compared to the Bengals one -- and two of the last three years, isn't overwhelming? Ok
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
The Steelers are 8-4 against the Bengals in the Palmer/Roethlisberger era (2004-2009), and when Palmer starts, the Steelers have a 6-4 advantage. Obviously, that is an advantage, but the Bengals did sweep the series one year ago, and even then 8-4 is not 12-0, or something like a Colts vs Titans (discounting resting starters), Colts vs Texans, Pats vs Bills, Steelers vs Browns, Chargers vs Raiders type imbalance. To just assume the Steelers will sweep the Bengals, or even to say that they have a good chance to do so, is a little presumptious.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Someone point to actual position weaknesses. The bengals are good to stacked almost across the board, and weak in some of the least important positions.
QB -- good
RB -- good
OL -- good
TE -- good
WR -- stacked
FB -- weak
CB -- stacked
S -- average
DE -- good
DT -- good
LB -- good
K -- weak
P -- decent
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Wow, the Bengals are stacked at QB, WR and RB? Really?
They didn't have a single player at those positions finish top 13 in DYAR last season relative to players at the same spot. Probably the reason they were 21st in weighted offense.
There is nothing stacked about the Bengals offense when analyzing position groups holistically.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
I don't really agree with observers' assesment, but @Corey, did can you even read?
He clearly doesn't say that QB, or RB are "stacked". Also, I know this is the FO site, but DYAR is not the only way to judge a player. However, again, if you are going to argue someone's opinion, at least argue a correct opinion, not one you made up that he said.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
I don't think having Chad Ochocinco, 36 year old Terrell Owens, and gimpy-kneed Antonio Bryant makes you "stacked" at WR. And while their starting CBs are good, I'm not sure about depth.
I think the Bengals are a very talented team, but also an extremely volatile one. They could have everything go right and finish 12-4, but I can just as easily see everything falling apart and them finishing 5-11. They have a *lot* of injury-related question marks and headcases on that roster, and it's very hard to predict how a team like that will do.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
The Bengals are sort of like a hot rod built from parts salvaged from a junkyard.
Re: Bengals Sign Terrell Owens
Observer: Ask the Vikings, Texans (who should have been a playoff team in '09), Saints, and Chargers how important kickers are. All of these teams' fates were determined by kickers. Not saying it's right, just the way it is.
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