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04 Jan 2010

Bill Simmons NFL Playoffs Podcast Spectacular

Hey, kids! It's that time of year, with this first edition of the weekly Bill Simmons NFL Playoffs Podcast, featuring yours truly along with Cousin Sal, Chad Millman, and Michael Lombardi. My segment starts about 40 minutes in.

Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 04 Jan 2010

40 comments, Last at 14 Jan 2010, 3:52pm by Dave

Comments

1
by Key19 :: Mon, 01/04/2010 - 11:26pm

Good stuff, good stuff. Can't wait for that in-depth look into the final Eagles/Cowboys matchup of the season.

2
by Temo :: Mon, 01/04/2010 - 11:32pm

<3 Cousin Sal.

3
by Malene, Cph (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 10:00am

yeah, for all the douchebaggery that runs in that Kimmel-Carolla circle, Cousin Sal is remarkably lovable.

4
by Eddo :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 10:44am

Simmons's lack of NFL knowledge is appalling, but not as bad as his willingness to "analyze" based on that total lack of knowledge. Just a few minutes into the Cousin Sal bit (I agree, Cousin Sal is pretty good), Simmons said something about how the Bengals lost their "rookie middle linebacker, Rey...", then couldn't come up with his name, then debated whether he even was their middle linebacker (vs. outside), then flat-out said he was "probably their best linebacker".

Now, I couldn't honestly tell you in Maualuga is their MLB or an OLB, and he very well be their best LB overall, but I'm not basing my analysis of the Bengals-Jets game on said lack of knowledge and broadcasting this information to a national audience.

5
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:20am

Simmons is TMQ in a more mass-marketable package.

6
by Adam B. :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:35am

Oh, please, Simmons is much smarter and more entertaining, plus he knows when to bring in guests smarter than he is and how to let them shine.

Easterbrook hasn't had a new analytical concept in about 5-6 years. Yes, Greggg, we get it: teams shouldn't be afraid to go for it on 4th down.

12
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 12:54pm

I'm not disputing that Sports Guy is more entertaining to the masses. That's what I meant when I said he was more marketable.

Much smarter... we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

My point was that the quality of analysis from Sports Guy is at about the same level of what you'd get from TMQ. Both frequently talk out their posterior, speaking with an undeserved air of authority. Simmons just gets more points for style.

13
by Harry (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 1:01pm

Simmons is actually smarter than he lets on, he's a classic underachiever who happened to find the right niche. TMQ is not as smart as he thinks he is - he's a classic overachiever who hasn't really digested and completely understood the materials he thinks he's an expert on.

16
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 2:08pm

I can't tell if you're disagreeing with me or taking what I said a step further. In either case, I agree on your assessment of both. However, I think Simmons also falls into the "not as smart as he thinks he is" bucket.

8
by Led :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:40am

Fair enough, but I don't think people read or listen to Simmons for analysis, especially of the NFL. It's pure entertainment. I happen to think he's funny.

7
by JakeS (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:36am

simmons is also atrocious with pronouncing names

9
by shearnpool@hotm... :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 12:10pm

Bill Simmons is great entertainment and knows a lot more than most talking heads. The real fraud is Mike Lombardi. After his great career with the Raiders and Browns he's so knowledgable about the NFL that he can't get a job with any team. Everything he says is conventional wisdom but dressed up a little bit to sound like it's innovative.

18
by Roger Cossack (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 3:36pm

Oh, no question! No question, no question, no question.

10
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 12:14pm

Simmons isn't a football expert and he doesn't really pretend to be (except for gambling on football). He's a basketball guy. I like reading and listening to him talk about football because he's entertaining, not because he's insightful.

Bill's forte: roundball
Oblate spheroid? Just a fan
Knowledge comes from guests

15
by DoubleB :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 1:47pm

But he does pretend to be (an expert). He wrote a column a month ago on the 4th and 2 Belichick decision and the column was 80% analysis. The gambling columns are pop analysis as well. He hasn't played, coached, or worked in the game in any capacity that I know of. He doesn't do advanced analysis and he doesn't watch film. Watching 9 hours of NFL action on 17 Sundays a year doesn't make you an expert. It makes you a fan. And he knows what the general fan knows--not very much. And he admitted this earlier in the decade: Bowl Game Article

17
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 3:32pm

What you're saying is true. Yeah, he "pretends" but it's an act and he'll tell you so himself. Unlike most other football writers, he doesn't actually believe that he has any special insight into football. He's just acting in a role. Almost every other football writer out there writes columns which they believe are expressing some deep truth. Simmons is shoveling out poorly-edited nonsense 1,000 words at a time, with the goal of being funny and entertaining, or capturing the essence of a fan's perspective, not to be analytical or uncover hidden truths. And he knows it and will admit it.

The column about the 4th and 2 play is a good example. It wasn't analysis. He was saying, "There's all this analysis out there that it was a good call, but they are all wrong because I am a fan and fans go on their gut feelings, not numbers." If it had been another team, he wouldn't have written that column, because the whole situation was only relevant to him as a fan of the Patriots.

I like his columns because unlike other football writers, when he makes a ridiculous argument with no factual basis, you know he is secretly winking at you. He doesn't think he has any monopoly on the truth, and beliefs are in a constant state of flux, since he does allow facts to influence his opinions. Compare that to TMQ, whose "immutable laws" never change (obviously) despite the fact that they are each disproven at least once every single week.

19
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 4:49pm

You do realize that a lot of people say that TMQ is just playing a character as well, yes? Sometimes you can tell he's hamming it up for his own amusment, other times you can't. Kind of like Simmons.

21
by lester bangs (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 6:23pm

Unlike most other football writers, [Bill Simmons] doesn't actually believe that he has any special insight into football.

I gotta call BS on that. Bill Simmons absolutely thinks he understands football (and handicapping) on an advanced level. He takes himself seriously, maybe not as seriously as some do, but it's not a wink-wink job here. He fancies himself an NFL analyst, even if it's more as a common-sense guy than some stat or film wizard.

Bottom line, does Bill Simmons take himself *very* seriously? Hell yes. Sure, there's humor and pop culture and the same Teen Wolf joke told 1,349 times, but he definitely has a big opinion on the opinions of William Simmons. I don't see how we all don't agree on that.

27
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 8:52pm

Handicapping, yes. Real football, no. I admit it's kind of a fine distinction. (Although you should have seen his self-deprecating columns back when his wife beat him making picks against the spread- 2 years in a row, no less.)

32
by lester bangs (not verified) :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 3:53am

Although you should have seen his self-deprecating columns back when his wife beat him making picks against the spread- 2 years in a row, no less.

I remember them well. His wife out-picking him did seem to put Bill's ego in check, and I thought he handled it well when he publicly discussed it. But listen to the Simmons-Millman segment at the end of this week's podcast; Bill really thinks he's part Jimmy Snyder, part Roxy Roxborough, part Ace Rothstein. He might include humor and the occasional self-deprecating jab in his work, but he still thinks he's very good at it, for the most part he takes it (and himself) very seriously.

33
by Led :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:21pm

His wife may have been making the picks (although I have my doubts) but I'm fairly certain the little bits that were supposedly written by her were ghostwritten by him. I thought it was a clever schtick to have his wife beat him to deflate his ego. Classic comedy trope going back at least to the Honeymooners.

23
by lester bangs (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 6:30pm

The Simmons column on the Belichick 4th-and-2 was arguably the worst thing he's ever written on the NFL. A slew of logical loopholes in that piece. Someone should have intercepted it at the WWL before it ever got published.

I would be flabbergasted if anyone from this site (staffer or regular reader) defended that Simmons piece. It's a mess. Not hating on Bill, sometimes he gets it right, but he fumbled that Belichick piece 20 different ways.

40
by Dave :: Thu, 01/14/2010 - 3:52pm

Not even close. The completely inaccurate piece he wrote whining about the refs and calls after the 2007 game that the Pats WON in Indy was the worst thing he ever wrote about the NFL. I'd put any number of pre-2007 Simmons articles above that one on the list too.

Which isn't to say that the 4th-and-2 one wasn't awful, of course.

29
by BroncosGuy (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:50pm

He hasn't played, coached, or worked in the game in any capacity that I know of.

This is, of course, in direct opposition to the FO staff, every member of which is enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame as either a player or coach.

I draw this absurdity not to rip FO staff, but to illustrate a double standard. There is an entire population of people who routinely offer strong opinions about sports they never played at a high level. They are called sportswriters. Bill Simmons is a sportswriter.

Simmons, at least, needs to display some mixture of competence and entertainment in order to maintain his paycheck. This is faint defense, given the continued market for Madonna, network television, Garrison Keillor, Larry King, and the Oakland Raiders. It remains, though, a higher standard than that faced by anonymous, hare-brained internet posters (did I just rip myself? crap!).

30
by DoubleB :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:49am

Your point is a good one. Most people who talk about sports, and football in particular, have little idea what they are talking about. I have no idea what the experience is of the FO staff, but I do know the statistical analysis is original and I sense that at least a few of them watch film.

And to give Simmons credit, what he does bring to the table with regards to NBA basketball seems legitimate. Why? Because he watches A TON OF NBA BASKETBALL, far beyond the serious fan, and it shows in his work on the subject.

25
by noahpoah :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 8:22pm

A football is not an oblate spheroid, it is a prolate spheroid.

28
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 8:55pm

Damn my lack of knowledge of non-Newtonian geometry!

11
by Harry (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 12:26pm

Anyone else have weird glitches in the podcast? Seems like Aaron's intro got cut off. Joe Meade is not doing his job.

26
by noahpoah :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 8:25pm

Yeah, I had the same problem. There were three or four places that skipped ahead some unknown amount of time, and then there were eight silent minutes at the end.

14
by Johnny (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 1:46pm

The "Las Vegas NFL expert" on this podcast is terrible. He basically said the exact opposite of all the previous guests. He knows nothing about football. Stick to talking about gambling lines.

20
by lester bangs (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 6:19pm

This was one of Aaron's better showings on TBSR, and I've listened to all of his appearances. Not a lot of laughing, too, which is appreciated (when in doubt, never make Aaron laugh). Good info.

Simmons giving FO props for unmasking Tomlinson was a little silly, I mean, LT averages 3.3 yards a carry this year. We all know that sucks. No proprietary-stat discussion needed.

Also, a lot of Aaron admitting "I don't know" about this year's playoffs and trends. That's totally cool, I just hope it doesn't turn into "I knew it!" if the DVOA-approved teams ultimately represent well. I also think it's a joke San Diego isn't ranked higher, but that's an issue for next week.

Anyway, good spot. Recommended. Two ears up.

22
by lester bangs (not verified) :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 6:27pm

One other thing - FO ranked Tomlinson No. 5 overall in the book for fantasy purposes, and had him as a risk for green. So while FO can document the fall in 2009, it wasn't something that was predicted. Fortunately for anyone who drafted LT, Norv Turner steered him a zillion touchdowns, almost like a Pop Warner coach looking out for his son.

24
by Tarrant :: Tue, 01/05/2010 - 7:22pm

There are times Bill Simmons comes off as less than knowledgeable, but there's also a lot of times where he's willing to say things about the NFL, NBA, and MLB that the regular beat writers and columnists simply wouldn't ever say for fear of losing the "access" and inside sources they have. If he started out today, sure, he'd end up one of the million random sports bloggers out there and get nowhere. But he started years ago, in a big sports town, and managed to make a living of it. Good for him.

He can be very critical of what seem like absolutely boneheaded moves, trades, plays, and decisions by coaches and general managers - in ways that make sense, particularly when he's talking about basketball, which he is very well versed in - while the general ESPN, SI, etc. columnists are trying to do the song and dance of "Wow what a bad move but we've got to paint it in a good light or maybe just say it's a bit of a risk or maybe we won't get the scoop next time" sort of way. He doesn't care because for the most part he doesn't have that access to lose.

And he does it in a way that's amusing and lighthearted. Not all his columns are good, but the good outnumber the bad, and the fun outnumber the tedious.

38
by Justin Zeth :: Thu, 01/07/2010 - 12:50am

If he started out today, sure, he'd end up one of the million random sports bloggers out there and get nowhere. But he started years ago, in a big sports town, and managed to make a living of it. Good for him.

I disagree with this, for the reason that Simmons is a better writer than 99% of the bloggers. He'd still have gotten somewhere; maybe not as far and maybe not as quickly, but he would still have distinguished himself if he'd started out in 2007, with his skills.

31
by pbaer (not verified) :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 1:43am

Can't get past the fact Simmons sounds like a little girl.
I've also heard he's whiny and totally self-absorbed.
Sounds like a complete creep to me.

37
by Still Alive (not verified) :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 8:30pm

Here is a little secret for you, most famous people, really not that likeable.

34
by dmstorm22 :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 4:24pm

As a Raider fan, Al Davis may have drafted Russell, and Huff and Heyward-Bey and a slew of other horrible players, but I will always love him for having the sense to get rid of Mike Lombardi.

Good God. Mike Lombardi is one of the worst "experts" I have ever heard. He seems to know as much as Simmons does. Listening to them talk about the Pats is like listening to two drunk Michigan fans sputter on about the Blue after their umpteenth slaughter dished out by OSU.

35
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 6:46pm

"Al Davis may have drafted Russell, and Huff and Heyward-Bey and a slew of other horrible players, but I will always love him for having the sense to get rid of Mike Lombardi."

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

36
by Bill Simmons = NBA !!! (not verified) :: Wed, 01/06/2010 - 7:32pm

guys, Bill Simmons is an NBA guy!!! some of the stuff he writes on the NBA is absolutely top-notch, plus funny as hell. i have read a NFL column or two but its freaking obvious it's not his first love/speciality.

so don't get all upset, will ya?

39
by Justin Zeth :: Thu, 01/07/2010 - 12:50am

If you guys think Simmons' NFL stuff is bad, stay far, far away from his baseball stuff.

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