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22 Nov 2010
The Titans have placed quarterback Vince Young on injured reserve with a thumb injury, ending his season and likely his career with the Titans.
Third-stringer Rusty Smith will start this weekend against the Texans, with the re-signed Chris Simms as Smith's backup.
Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 22 Nov 2010
74 comments, Last at
27 Nov 2010, 3:21pm by
Does this have anything to do with developing Rabbit Ears? I don't know how you would fit a helmet on over those.
I would wonder whether he's on injured reserve or "injured reserve".
Yeah, seriously, this is as obvious a move as when the Lions put Jon Kitna on IR four games into the 08 season. In spades, they call this a "dump hand." Just get all your decent but inconvenient players out of the way and throw the entire season. Aim for a good draft pick next year or something.
Personally, I think Young has gotten somewhat of a raw deal in all of this, but I know public opinion's gonna be against me on that one. Still though, I wish him the best at whatever team takes him next (Bengals? 49ers? Vikings?).
He should consdier using his down-time to finance a multi-state gambling/dog-fighting operation. Maybe he'll come back much better in a few years
(I also like the Eagles)
Someone on the TV just now said Bud Adams said Fisher and VY had to work with each other...
Where is he going? Vikings?
For the Vikings sake, I hope not. I'd think after this year's experience with a bit of a diva QB they'd shy away from petulant Vince.
Let's see, he's athletic, a Heisman winner, and immature . . . Al Davis, anyone?
He didn't win the Heisman. It would have been a different story if the voting had been held after the Rose Bowl, but alas...
Ah, yeah, I just must associate him with all the "he should have won" talk that came after the Rose Bowl that year.
Fine, replace "national champion stud" or whatever, same general idea. Seems the kind of guy Al Davis has traditionally gone for.
Is he even an upgrade over Tarvaris Jackson? Serious question.
To answer my own question:
A: 39 starts, 57%, 8100 yds, 42 td, 42 int, 6.8 y/a, 75.7 rating, 75 sacks
B: 19 starts, 59%, 3700 yds, 22 td, 18 int, 6.7 y/a, 78.6 rating, 42 sacks
*Player A has two Rose Bowl MVPs
Of course, Player A also runs for 25.6 a game vs. 14.9, does so with a 4.9 YPC as opposed to a 3.3, and gets sacked significantly less.
VY IS Tarvaris Jackson. That's why when he won the starting job in TEN they had to get Brett Favre to take over in Minnesota. The league is desperate to prevent the fans from finding out.
Jon Kitna is also Trent Dilfer.
Not much of one, but that's because Tarvaris is underrated slightly, not because VY is hella overrated. I think VY's got way more of an arm on him than Tarvaris, but other than that they're somewhat similar.
Honestly, this to me is similar to the Matt Leinart situation during preseason, where politics completely overshadowed onfield performance and led everyone to see the QB in question as not only non-elite but significantly worse than he actually was. I have a feeling the rest of the Titans season will mirror the season the Cardinals have had, too.
As for where VY will land, I think the Bengals are significantly more likely to take him than anyone else. Assuming they can admit to themselves that Carson Palmer is done.
This is wonderful news for the Colts. Takes a bit of the sting off of yesterday.
I can't rememeber what Collins' status is, and he may be OK in three weeks, and I never really trusted/feared Young, but he does make them tougher to defend. Playing Collins is relatively straightforward. If he has a good game, they're good, otherwise they're not. If he can't play, they face a third string rookie in his third and sixth starts. That's great for the Colts and bad for the Jags, plus it pretty much rules the Titans out in the division race.
Furthermore, even if you assume the Colts would've won anyway, this gives them a lot of help beating the West winner for the 3 seed, which avoids Jets/Pats in round 1. Ravens/Steelers may not really be any easier, I guess... but at least being the 3 means a possible home game in the AFCCG if it gets that far, like in 06.
I'm more than a little surprised they didn't suspend him and dock his pay, a la TO. I assume that's Adams overruling Fisher while still removing the problem for the rest of the year. This could mean the end of Fisher in Tennessee. Which I think would be a really dumb decision.
I concur about the AFCS div race, thought I would have preferred the Colts face the Titans DURING their death-spiral of turmoil, and not once they've potentially settled things....
Collins is truly puzzling from afar--one season he takes them to 13-3 and the next, 0-6 and then the bench. Regardless of personnel (Haynesworth) coaching and scheme changes, that's a pretty start difference, no? But yes, even when he is good, things are simpler for the Colts. And when he's bad, look out.
Jags also have just two remaining games at home while Indy has four.
IIRC, during that 0-6 stretch, Collins was excellent at hitting his receivers' hands.
and the NFL wants 18 games a season. Don't think I need to see MORE Rusty Smith games every year.
That's why they are enforcing the 'don't come into the 2 yard QB halo'.
Raw deal. Vince Young probably needs a coach that is more of a player's coach.
Is poster drunk?
V. Youing with Titams 5 years. Almosy had nervous breakdown 3rd year. Coach J. Fisher had to call cops or FBI to get Young. Fisher did a lot to help Young.
Time has probslby run out on Young in Tennnessseee now. GUy has to stop throwing clothes into stands, has to stop fihgting tiwh coaches and cannot run away again and have guns in car. Time for V. Young to grow up and act like professional
I have started using 'Is (insert subject here) drunk?' in conversations. I think it's pretty good.
RJ, Tunesmith may have been sarcastic, not sure.
I know Fisher is a pretty no-nonsense guy, but he always struck me as a players' coach much more than guys like Coughlin or Belichick. Maybe it's his relative age and as he gets older, he's more distant. Not sure.
But I agree, Fisher may not have ever been in VY's corner, but as far as I could tell he did a LOT to support him.
Tough situation for the coaches: Their best post-McNair season was led by Collins and then Collins went 0-6 as a starter the next year... there was the season where VY seemed to turn the team around mid-season (and won OROY, no?), but also his "quitting" when getting booed. There's no clear-cut answer in terms of team success, which is generally what fans see. But in terms of leadership, practice, work ethic, reliability... the staff sees a lot more of that than fans. They KNOW what they have. And assuming there's no owner-meddling, it seems that even the coaches aren't sure who gave them the best chance of winning. Young certainly had his chances.
What VY really needs is a call from Michael Vick, to tell him what he has to do to become a better quarterback (stuff like taking coaching, devoting time to improving, film study, etc.).
Yeah, those are much better options than what I suggested above.
But not as funny.
Could try both....
Though the federal prison option is so much less appealing, especially now that you have to bring your own toilet paper....
Vince just needs a hug.
I forget who said it last night in regard to VY (Collinsworth maybe):
"No coach in the NFL protects his players' backs more than Jeff Fisher..."
All right. Really what I mean is that Young appears to be somewhat of a sensitive sort and would probably do better with a coach that is more willing to play the paternal role. Fisher has a good reputation but he's also a tough hard-nosed guy that doesn't exactly stand in the way of his players playing dirty. On top of that, Young was more Bud's guy than Fisher's guy, so who knows how that played out in the dynamics between the two.
"ending his season and likely his career with the Titans."
Based on what?
This is really going to hurt Chris Johnson's performance as well; it's not exactly scary to have to defend the zone read against Collins.
While VY probably can be an effective NFL quarterback, he's never going to go anywhere in the league worth a damn unless he can figure out how to deal with his coaches and his emotions more reasonably. Between the meltdown yesterday and the 'I'm not sure I want to be in the NFL' crap that happened a couple years back, the guy has to grow up some. He could probably use a couple years on the bench behind a known commodity, but I doubt that'll happen. He's just not that accurate and I doubt he'd be willing to take second fiddle money.
You guys may all scoff but the fact that things like therapy are still so stigmatized as "unmanly" in the world of sports probably hurt players like Young more than anything else. He's one of the most clearcut candidates for therapy I've ever seen. I have had a lot of the same problems with mood swings and depression that Young seems to have, and therapy has done a lot for me over the last few years. I'm not ashamed to admit that. A lot of people seem to take the attitude that getting tons of money to do something you love to do should be able to compensate for any lingering psychological issues but it just ain't necessarily so (ask Kurt Cobain about that one).
Anyway, my hope continues to be that people in the sports world will start talking about this stuff in more positive terms in coming years.
There wass good Sports Illustarted article abouit this late June 2010. if did not see it then you coudl look it up at sivault.com
rusty smith had better start winding up now, maybe by sunday he'll have released the ball.
Rusty Smith jsut a little risty. Going to get a good sandpapering this week and be reayd to roll on Sunday vs Texams.
Wonderful description - perhaps could be even better if, after sandpapering, he will be ready to "shine" this Sunday?
ps I can appreciate that Rusty might need one, but I don't think a good sandpapering is a treatment I would be very eager to receive in the locker room...
Maybe if he gets up oily on the morning of gameday and gets the trainers to give him a few shots of WD-40.
...oh God.... what's next, a wrenched knee? Maybe summer vacation in Greece, an agent named Slick, him playing better at Lucas Oil Stadium, replacing Johnny Bench as Rust-o-leum's spokesman (or was they Krylon?)...
what really fascinates me is the similarities here to the early 90s eagles. vince young, the super-athletic black quarterback with major emotional issues and a poor relationship with his coaches looks an awful lot like randall cunningham. kerry collins, the traditional drop-back white qb super bowl vet with his best years behind him and who you can't trust for more than a few games before he gets hurt or implodes looks like jim macmahon. and then there's fisher, who was the defensive coordinator in philly around that time, the hard nosed veteran coach who seemingly would love it if his star could get his head straight but isn't confident that it'll ever happen, who doesn't really fit exactly into the buddy ryan/richie kotite molds, but serves well enough for the comparison.
While the skill set isn't identical, I usually think of VY and Jeff George in the same way: great talent, emotionally immature, and streaks of awesomeness that cause coaches and owners to think that maybe he finally has turned the corner.
Maybe the Titans can sign Jeff George... I hear he's still available
You just compared a black quarterback with a white quarterback. Don't you know that's against the rules?
Well, neither is really a hard-working fan favorite, so maybe there's a loophole.
I actually LIKE the Jeff George comparison, because emotional maturity seems to be at the heart of the matter.
OOps, hadnt followed the titans games recently, so I was not aware that he has fallen off the cliff so much, as to gte rid of him is a foregone conclusion.
Thought he had quite a run in between for a while.
Remember when QBs class of '06 was soooo promising?
Argument I'm having with a friend: Cutler or Young - which would you prefer as your starter right now.
Which side are you?
Haha, I think you know, Schatt'. Let's just say my friend is a Titans *and* Longhorns fan.
I couldn't resist the joke.
I would agree with you in this debate, by the way.
I also tried looking this up just to see if it was illuminating:
All QBs with at least 1000 attempts with ANY/A +8 or -8 from Young: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/nZqd4
Same for Cutler: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/QcX8u
It seems to me there's a big difference between the two lists (doing a quick count, I'm getting 21/49 successes on Young's list and 41/69 on Cutler's--not exactly scientific, but that's what I'm seeing).
VY is simply not accurate, nor consistent enough to be a top notch QB. Throw in the fact that hes apparently a huge baby and at best i would say hes a wildcat/change of pace 2nd string QB somewhere else.
Looking back at that draft it appears that VY, Leinart are busts and Cutler is at best a less talented favre. Will make some incredible throws but will generally kill you by throwing terrible picks. Unless the guys on D have stone hands and fortunately, for cutler, drop 2 or 3 balls a game.
And Jeff Fisher runs another black QB out of town.
I think this would have turned out a bit differently if McNair had stayed on a year to coach up Young. I am saddened by the while situation.
Yup. Likely. Maybe not, though--not everybody's coachable or willing to listen.
i think this would have turned out a bit differently if his mom hadn't babied him and fans deified him his entire hs and college career
Vince Young had the 9th highest DVOA among QBs this year. He's clearly not the problem in TEN. They will be drastically worse going forward.
This wasn't about production though. It was about leadership. IMHO, VY can play but he can't lead in the NFL. He's a viabile starter skill and production wise but he simply cannot handle adversity with the composure required to be a NFL QB. He's fine when he's being worshiped like he was in college but in the NFL fans get antsy, they boo occasionally (even the Pats got booed when they looked sluggish last year). Every time VY gets booed he goes nuts. Won't go back on the field, talks about quitting football, throws tantrums. I think he has the skills to be successful, and has produced in the past but it appears that he's just not emotionally strong enough to lead a NFL team full of grown men through any adversity.
I just did a quick survey of QBs drafted from 2005-2007, the years bracketing Vince Young's 2006 draft. You can uses your preferred weighting scale, but Aaron Rodgers is clearly leading the way in this 3 year stretch. The 2006 draft class is an unmitigated disaster at this point.
The 2007 draft class makes me chuckle. Of the two first rounders, one is out of the league and the other was a throwaway player in a trade to get Hillis out of DEN. Stanton and Thigpen got starts because of injury and Troy Smith got the start because Alex Smith and David Carr are busts. Three 3rd stringers from 2007 got starts this year.
I still have some hope for Kolb. When he was not getting Clay Matthew'ed, he was pretty successful. He should get traded to a team that gives him a shot at starting. Maybe TEN should look at his game film.
(1) Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell
(3) Charlie Fry, Andre Walter, David Greene
(4) Kyle Orton, Stan LeFors
(5) Dan Orlovsky, Adrian McPherson
(6) Derek Anderson
(7) James Killan, Matt Cassel, Ryan Fitzpatrick
(U) Jason White
(1) Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler
(2) Kellen Clemens, Tarvaris Jackson
(3) Whitehurst, Croyle
(4) Ingle Martin, Omar Jacobs
(6) Reggie McNeal, Bruce Gradkowski
(7) D.J. Shockey
(1) JaMarcus Russel, Brady Quinn
(2) Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton
(3) Trent Edwards
(4) Isaiah Stanback
(5) Jeff Rowe, Troy Smith, Jordan Palmer, Tyler Thigpen
Alex Smith was from 2005 also.
How did I miss him? That is the perfect keystone for my informal analysis! Troy Smith replacing Alex Smith!
Holy Sweet Johnny U's Flattop, Batman, that's some sad list!
18 games? 18 Games?!?! I say we cut back to 24 teams! There's not enough QB talent to go around.
(Although it should be noted that Stanback was drafted to be a WR--even Husky fans knew he was not an NFL QB--we're not even sure his erstwhile Heisman candidate replacement--Jake Locker--is)
Who is now, and in ten years who will be thought of the best on that list?
Rodgers clearly, but after that... Kolb... Cutler, Orton, Fitpatrick, Troy Smith (I admit to a weakness for him)... didn't Derek Anderson make a Pro Bowl? giggle.
Aside from Rodgers, somebody will rise in the next few years, because of the right situation, luck, or just a fluke.
I'm not sure that's all that much worse than a typical set of QB classes. 2004 was really solid for QBs (Eli-Rivers-Ben-Schaub as four of the first five taken), but that seems to be more of an abberation than not. 2003 consisted of Carson Palmer, then Leftwich, then a fine mix of Boller, Grossman, Seneca Wallace, Brooks Bollinger, and the now-immortal Brian St. Pierre. 2002 was Carr/Harrington right at the top, with Patrick Ramsey at the bottom of the first. Unless you're in the mood to roll with Josh McCown or J.T. O'Sullivan, the only serviceable QB out of that class was Garrard.
I tend to agree about Kolb. Someone will give him a shot. I'm guessing in the offseason the Eagles will ask for a first round pick and end up with two seconds, or maybe a second and a high conditional pick. Someone will look at his body of work and decide that he's clearly better than what they have on their roster and they don't have the window of opportunity and/or draft picks to go try their luck with a rookie.
I think they can get a 1st and a 3rd for Kolb - there are just too many teams with absolutely dire QB situations for them to have to settle. And the Eagles definitely have a history of maximizing trade value - you think Carolina, Arizona, SF, even Seattle and Oakland won't strongly consider the guy? And what about teams like Minnesota and Browns (sorry, not a McCoy believer) that could easily look at their QB situation at the end of the season and panic? Tennessee doesn't seem to have any good answer at the moment either. They're a QB away from being a real contender.
If a team like Arizona ends up in a "get us a good QB or Larry Fitzgerald is leaving" situation, they could hit the "fuck it - we'll pay whatever it takes" button. There are 3 teams that desperately need QB's and another 7 or 8 that will be in highly iffy situations - and Kolb and VY will be the only even semi-proven commodities on the market... You think Minnesota won't be aching to get the taste of Childress and Tavaris out of their mouth? Or that Al Davis won't do something crazy? Or that the 3/4 of the NFC West won't end up in a bidding war?
There are several teams that could also decide to cut their losses and move on: Miami, Chicago (especially if there is a coaching change), Cincinnati and Washington could end up in the mix. A good QB prospect with some success is going to be worth a ton come the off-season...
If they can get a 2 and a 5 for AJ Feeley, who knows?
Regardless, we agree that Kolb has significant value and there will be plenty of QB needy teams on the market. It's really too early to say clearly because we don't have a feel for the supply side yet. We don't know what other QBs will emerge in free agency/trade and we don't know how the college season will finish.
This is good political move for Fisher. VY is an excellent fall guy for the season, regardless of the reality.
About the only thing you can say for Kerry Collins, is he can throw a pretty nice deep ball. Not that he always does.....just that he can. Maybe they should alternate between pounding it with CJ2K and throwing deep bombs to Moss to keep the safety's away from the line of scrimmage. Surely this couldn't be any worse?
I brought up something similar in the Audibles thread, adn I suspect it will die here as well, but it will be interesting to watch how this whole Fisher/VY thing plays out in comparison to Childress/Favre...I know there's some apple/orange going on, but the potential for a good franchise to burn to the ground is there.
I don't know - those seem like wildly different situations. Favre has a much stronger track record of success and Fisher has a much stronger tenured position as a coach. I think that the potential for TN to "burn to the ground" would be greater if these games hadn't been going on for several seasons, you could even argue that they stretch back to when McNair was similarly locked out of the practice facility. VY was hardly the entrenched starter and the QB situation has been a mess for several seasons now, so it's hard to see this as a change, so much as a continuation of how it has been...
That is interesting.
I actually would not be at all surprised to see Fisher gone at the end of the season, one way or another. This situation is also somewhat reminiscent of Reeves/Elway, especially with the owner being seemingly in love with the QB.
Really? I think if Fisher goes, it's of his own volition and he gets picked up instantly by Carolina or SF or someone like that. I also can see VY making it impossible for Adams to stand behind him and sulking his way out of town. Elway is another iffy comparison because he had so much success that it's hard to NOT take his side (a la Favre in Minnesota...)
Elway was largely considered a disappointment at the time. The Broncos had even drafted a replacement for him before the 1992 season. Every Broncos fan I knew except my grandfather was on Reeves's side and said Elway should be traded.
And I agree that Fisher could go of his own volition (and in fact that's probably more likely than a firing), which is why I added "one way or another" to him being gone.
All I meant abiut Elway having a greater track reciord of success is that his success is far greater than VY's - not whether he was considered a disappointment or not. And if Elway was considered a disappointment to Denver fans, I would both most TN fans feel faintly similarly towards VY...
Anyhoo, I guess I am curious how this works out. I just can't see Fisher losing this battle, but I guess you're right that could just mean he leaves the team in the lurch and goes to Houston or something...
it's cool everyone, young texted coach and apologized... that should make things blow over right?
Don;t you get the sense that because of how strange the stuff about VY that actually leaks is, that the behind the scenes stuff going on with him must be NUTS. I mean, that story about him disappearing because of depression only to admit he was sitting around eating wings, watching Monday night football... and now this? A text? What is going on? And who would have that 3 weeks ago a headcase would be causing the Titans season to implode and it wouldn't be Moss?
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