Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

02 Jul 2012

Ben Muth's RSP Team

Ben pumped this a little bit in his column last week, but our own Matt Waldman is running a project this offseason that involves a team of esteemed football minds of the internet putting together teams of their own. Players were all given assigned values and said writers had to defend their selections and create team concepts, sub packages, and more.

Here is Ben's Q&A about his team, as well.

We probably won't link to all of these, but we do want to show them off for our writers involved in this process, like Mike Tanier, Mr. Muth, and Matt's final pass at his team.

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 02 Jul 2012

59 comments, Last at 13 Jul 2012, 3:59pm by Dan

Comments

1
by ebongreen :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 3:08pm

What I'd like to see is actual team rosters analyzed according to the point values assigned. For example, how much of this Monopoly-money are the Pats worth? The Giants? The Packers? The Ravens?

It would be an interesting value graph to observe, and it would be pretty easy to make stacked bar-charts out of the info to compare division-, conference-, or league-wide rosters.

If I had Mr. Waldman's email address I would already have suggested this, but other than Twitter (which I don't use) it's difficult to find.

2
by Theo :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 3:39pm

nobody is stopping you from doing it

3
by ebongreen :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 3:42pm

Absolutely true. But as one man with other demands on his time, it's a project taking weeks or months. For a group of nerds like Matt's, where the data is probably already handy and the spreadsheet skills as well, it might take a matter of hours.

11
by The Ninjalectual :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 1:18am

Is the full list available somewhere? If not, then yes, someone is stopping you.

I'd love to be able to see the list so I can put a team together and post about it in my blog. Doesn't matter if anybody reads it or not, but it would be fun!

17
by Dan :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 7:00am

Download the full list of players & salaries from here.

57
by Anonymous`124 (not verified) :: Thu, 07/12/2012 - 10:20pm

I've decided to do this. First the mistakes: For guys who were listed more than once, I've put them at their higher salary. David Arkin is listed as both a 1.5 Guard and a 1.0 Guard. Adrian Arrington is listed as Arian Arrington. Christian Ballard is listed as both a 2.0 DT and a 1.0 DE. Zackary Bowman is both a 1.0 and 0.5 CB. Brett Bracket is listed as Brent Brackett. Cameron Bradfield is listed as Cameron Brandfield. Tom Brandstater is listed as Tom Branstater. Rob Bruggeman is listed as Rob Bruggerman. James Bryant is listed as James Bryan. Zach Clayton is on the DT list twice. Jermaine Cunningham is listed as both a LB and a DE, though maybe that is intentional. Tristan Davis is listed as Tristtan Dvais. DaMarcus Ganaway is listed as Demarcus Ganaway. Dan Gerberry is listed as Dan Gerbery. Mardy Gilyard is listed as Marty Gilard. I'm going to assume that 3.5 WR Chris Givens is the 4th round rookie for the St. Louis Rams, not the undrafted rookie for the New Orleans Saints. Chris Hairston is listed as Chris Hariston. Al Harris is listed as both a 1.5 and a 1.0 CB. Junior Hemingway is listed as Junior Hemingtway. Senio Kelemete is listed as Senio Kemete. Spencer Larsen is listed as Spencer Larson. Ted Larsen is listed as Ted Larson. Rian Lindell is listed as Ryan Lindell. Zeke Markshausen was misspelled. Ryan Miller is listed at both 2.0 and 1.0. Carlton Mitchell is listed as Carlton Mithcell. O.J. Murdock is listed as O.J. Murock. Chris Ogbonnaya is listed as Chris Obgonnaya. I have no idea who 7.0 DT Jason Peters is (7.5 OT Jason Peters plays for Philadelphia). Surely it can't be Georgia Tech DE Jason Peters, who went undrafted in the 2012 draft. I assume Chilo Rachal (3.5 OT) is the same player as Chilo Rachel (1.5 OG). Joe Reitz is listed as both a 1.5 OG and a 1.0 OG. Aldrick Robinson is listed as Alririck Robinson. Isaiah Stanback is listed as Isaiah Stenbeck. Corey Thompson is listed as a 1.0 DT and a 0.5 DT. I think Andrew Tiller is listed as Andre Tiler. Julian Vandervelde is listed as Julian Vanderveide. Vance Walker is listed twice. J.D. Walton (1.5 C) is presumably the same guy as JD Walton (1.0 C). Dekoda Watson is listed as both a LB and a DE. Jarius Wright is listed as Jairus Wright. Matt Slater is listed as Matt Stlater. Team values will be in the next post.

58
by Anonymous123 (not verified) :: Thu, 07/12/2012 - 10:40pm

I'm only including the top 53 prices for each team. This may include players on a team if they're still free agents.
Philadelphia - $216.50
New England - $212
San Francisco - $210.50
Green Bay - $208
New York Giants - $198
Tennessee - $197
Seattle - $196
Baltimore - $193
Detroit - $188
New Orleans - $186.50
Buffalo - $186
Cincinnati - $185
Pittsburgh - $182
Dallas - $176.50
Tampa Bay - $175.50
Houston - $175
Carolina - $174
San Diego - $171 (I assume Nick Hardwick being at 6.6 and not 6.5 was a mistake)
Cleveland - $170.50
Kansas City - $168
Denver - $167.50
New York Jets - $167
Oakland - $166
Atlanta - $165
Arizona - $164.50
Jacksonville - $161
Chicago - $161
Washington - $160.50
Miami - $160
St. Louis - $158
Minnesota - $157
Indianapolis - $140.50

59
by Dan :: Fri, 07/13/2012 - 3:59pm

Awesome work! That tracks pretty closely with how teams are rated, with a few exceptions (like Seattle & Tennessee near the top, and Chicago and Atlanta near the bottom).

4
by falcochicquera :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 4:08pm

I put together a team using these rules and it has common ground with several teams (Pierre Thomas, LaRod Stephens-Howling, Golden Tate, Wade Smith, Dwight Lowery, Terrence Knighton) - indicating that these are some of the under valued players.

I'd be interested to see if my other "steals" (Sammie Lee Hill, William Middleton, Chris Cook, Joel Dreessen) appear on some of the TBA teams.

5
by jsa (not verified) :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 5:26pm

As I understand it, this would not suggest those players are actually under-valued, but that they are under-valued in the RSP valuation. Right?

10
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:43am

Yeah, some jerk-off decided to assign values to players and get other jerk-offs to build a team for something to do in the off-season that's not watching baseball.

7
by Dan :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 8:02pm

I have Dreessen on the squad that I've put together. Good calls on Middleton & Cook - I went with Ras-I Dowling & Brandon Harris as my developmental CBs, but those might be better. Or I could just go with all 4, and count on competition for my starters to emerge. I'm doing something similar at FS, where I have Lowery, Mike Adams, and Chris Conte all competing for the starting job, for a combined cost of only 0.5 above the minimum (and as an added bonus, whoever loses out can provide depth at both safety and CB).

The $150M cap seems too high - I can fit an implausibly high number of stars on my team, after pulling tricks like this. I'm thinking of trying to put together a team that's under the actual NFL salary cap of $120.6M.

9
by Rivers McCown :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 9:30pm

Yeah I fooled around with it and I think Lowery and Knighton are just about musts, while the rest of your list is also very playable.

FWIW:

QB Griffin III
QB Chase Daniel
QB Persa
RB Thomas
RB Evan Royster
RB Mewelde Moore
FB 0.5 guy (didn't bother researching, call him Jerome Felton)
TE Jimmy Graham
TE Fleener
TE Luke Stocker
TE Zach Potter
WR Marques Colston
WR Kenny Britt
WR Malcolm Floyd
WR Dezmon Briscoe
WR Quan Cosby (returns)
WR Michael Calvin
OL Tyron Smith
OL Wade Smith
OL Rodney Hudson
OL David DeCastro
OL Todd Herremans
OL Marcus Cannon
OL Evan Dietrich-Smith
OL J.D. Walton

DT: Terrence Cody, Torell Troup, Sammie Lee Hill, Terrence Knighton, Sione Fua
DE: Cameron Wake, Antonio Smith, Willie Young, Corey Liuget, Lawrence Sidbury

LB: Troy Polamalu (Basing out of Giants 4-2-5), Brian Cushing, Kavell Connor, Martez Wilson, 3 0.5'er ST thumper guys

DB: Earl Thomas, Danieal Manning, Dwight Lowery, Rahim Moore, Jonathan Joseph, Jimmy Smith, Brice McCain, Cortez Allen, Brandon Harris

K/P: Olindo Mare, Pat McAfee

16
by Dan :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 6:57am

I cut Dreessen after making room for Gronkowski, so my earlier comment is no longer correct. Here's my current 53:

QB: Aaron Rodgers, Nick Foles, Stephen McGee
RB: Jonathan Stewart, Joe McKnight, Jackie Battle, Jason Snelling
WR: Calvin Johnson, Malcom Floyd, Preston Parker, Golden Tate, Ruvell Martin
TE/FB: Rob Gronkowski, Fred Davis, Luke Stocker, Marcel Reece
OL: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Matt Slauson, John Sullivan, Harvey Dahl, Anthony Collins; Geoff Schwartz, Ryan Wendell, Demarcus Love
DE: Chris Long, Brian Robison, Antwan Barnes, Brandon Graham, William Hayes
DT: Pernell McPhee, Terrance Knighton, Linval Joseph, Stephen Paea, Corey Liuget
LB: Stephen Tulloch, Brandon Johnson, Philip Wheeler, Nick Roach, Arthur Moats, Akeem Jordan
CB: Darrelle Revis, William Middleton, Brice McCain, Ras-I Dowling, Brandon Harris, Chris Cook
S: Danieal Manning, Mike Adams, Dwight Lowery, Chris Conte
ST: Pat McAfee, Ryan Longwell, Zak DeOssie

Base offense has Calvin Johnson, Malcom Floyd, Rob Gronkowski, and Fred Davis ready to threaten the defense vertically, with Jonathan Stewart looking to set success rate records. But I also like 22 personnel with Calvin Johnson, Rob Gronkowski, Fred Davis, Marcel Reece, and Joe McKnight capable of lining up in any formation from Big I to five-wide.

I also made a $120.5M version of the roster to fit under the NFL salary cap, dropping Revis for Adam Jones, Chris Long for Paul Kruger, Ferguson for Branden Albert, Stewart for Pierre Thomas, and some others, but keeping Rodgers, Calvin Johnson, and Gronkowski.

28
by Dan :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 6:11pm

Here's my full $120.5M squad:

QB: Aaron Rodgers, Nick Foles, Stephen McGee
RB: Pierre Thomas, D.J. Ware, Jackie Battle, Jason Snelling
WR: Calvin Johnson, Brandon LaFell, Preston Parker, Golden Tate, Ruvell Martin
TE/FB: Rob Gronkowski, Tony Scheffler, Marcel Reece
OL: Branden Albert, Matt Slauson, John Sullivan, Geoff Schwartz, Anthony Collins; Chris Spencer, Ryan Wendell, Demarcus Love
DE: Paul Kruger, Brian Robison, Antwan Barnes, Brandon Graham, William Hayes
DT: Pernell McPhee, Terrance Knighton, Linval Joseph, Stephen Paea, Corey Liuget
LB: Stephen Tulloch, Brandon Johnson, Philip Wheeler, Nick Roach, Arthur Moats, Akeem Jordan
CB: Adam Jones, William Middleton, Brice McCain, Ras-I Dowling, Brandon Harris, Chris Cook
S: Danieal Manning, Mike Adams, Chris Conte, Dwight Lowery
ST: Pat McAfee (P/KO), Ryan Longwell (PK), Zak DeOssie (LS), Marcus Sherels (KR/PR)

I saved my ridiculous offensive core, but weakened the complementary players & depth around them. I had to drop a couple superstars on defense, so I'm going all-in on young pass rushers and CBs.

48
by Dan :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 8:40pm

For fun, I made a $100M version:

QB: Aaron Rodgers, Nick Foles, Stephen McGee
RB: D.J. Ware, Jackie Battle, Jason Snelling, Keiland Williams
WR: Calvin Johnson, Brandon LaFell, Preston Parker, Golden Tate, Ruvell Martin
TE: Fred Davis, Joel Dreessen, Luke Stocker
OL: Branden Albert, Matt Slauson, John Sullivan, Geoff Schwartz, Anthony Collins; Ryan Wendell, Fernando Velasco, Demarcus Love
DE: Brian Robison, Antwan Barnes, Brandon Graham, William Hayes, Marcus Benard
DT: Pernell McPhee, Terrance Knighton, Stephen Paea, Corey Liuget, Corey Peters
LB: A.J. Hawk, Brandon Johnson, Philip Wheeler, Nick Roach, Arthur Moats, Akeem Jordan
CB: William Middleton, Brice McCain, Ras-I Dowling, Chris Cook, Brandon Harris, Roderick Hood
S: Danieal Manning, Mike Adams, Chris Conte, Dwight Lowery
ST: Pat McAfee (P/KO), Ryan Longwell (PK), Zak DeOssie (LS), Marcus Sherels (KR/PR)

I lost Gronkowski, Tulloch, and Pierre Thomas, but I kept the Rodgers-Megatron connection, with some other good targets in the passing game, a solid OL, and some pass rushing threats on defense. I've really cheaped out at RB, CB, LB (except for a moderately priced AJ Hawk), and DT (except for a moderately priced Pernell McPhee), although at CB and DT I don't think they're such bad players - just a lot of young, unproven prospects. At RB I'm really putting the replaceability theory to the test, but I think this group would do alright - I mostly went for guys who are solid pass blockers, have good hands, and can pick up a tough yard or two; they just won't make many guys miss or get a whole lot more than what's blocked. At LB I have plenty of sound 2-down linebackers, but I'm not sure who I'd end up using in the nickel.

My general philosophy in building these teams (which became clearer to me as I had to figure out who to cut to fit a lower cap):

1. It's all about the passing game. It's a passing league, and most of the resources should go there. Offense and defense (though offense is more important).

2. Most important: QB, receiver, pass rush. QB is by far the most important position in today's NFL - it's only a slight exaggeration to say that an elite QB will singlehandedly make your team a playoff contender for a decade. Next come elite receivers and pass rushers, because in addition to making big plays, they also dictate terms to your opponent, forcing them to scheme around your star, limiting what your opponent can do and opening things up for the rest of your team. Great receivers complement great quarterbacks (they help each other shine), and offense is more important than defense, so I put them ahead of pass rushers. Blocking and coverage are also important, but not as important (you can get by fine with average units there).

3. It's better to spend on stars than on pretty good players or depth. Partly that's because of this format - there are a lot of decent players available for cheap (some of them pretty clearly underpriced, like at safety). So I didn't put too much money into slight upgrades from them, instead investing in a few game-changing players. Stars also make the players around them look better - Preston Parker, catching passes from Aaron Rodgers while Calvin Johnson occupies the defense's attention, will probably be more effective than a higher priced slot receiver would be in less favorable circumstances. At some positions you can make do with mediocre players (like RB and 4-3 OLB), and in some cases you can rely on numbers and competition instead of paying for better players, like with my young cornerbacks competing for the starting jobs or the young defensive ends who will be rotating & competing for playing time.

4. Collect young, cheap talent. This one is pretty obvious. I think a bunch of young, early draft picks who haven't done much yet were just underpriced, especially at CB but also on the defensive line (where they're less cheap but still good deals). Some of these prospects are likely to emerge as stars - I don't know who it will be, but I got a bunch of them for cheap.

19
by Yaguar :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 9:02am

William Middleton's valuation is essentially just completely wrong. He's at 0.5, and I would have considered him at 3.5 or more.

6
by drobviousso :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 5:30pm

Nice to see Bronco Legursky getting some love. Ben - I sort of see him as ideal as a backup that can step in and play any guard spot as well as goal line fullback. Do you think that's his best use, or do you think he should be a starting guard for the Steelers long term?

Trai Essex - I think that's about the nicest thing I've ever seen written about him...

8
by Raiderjoe :: Mon, 07/02/2012 - 8:39pm

Was not invited to particoate

14
by jebmak :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 4:13am

Very much disappointed.

12
by The Ninjalectual :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 1:21am

Knows how to play receiver. Can run routes and catch the ball.

I would hope so.

13
by The Ninjalectual :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 1:26am

As a Redskins fan it makes me optimistic to know that Ben has that much confidence in Trent Williams. It's also interesting that he would spend so much more value on guards instead of tackles.

15
by FourteenDays :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 5:20am

For my RSP team, I'm picking Scissors. I know it's a bit of a controversial selection, since Rock is always the perennial favorite in these drafts, but I think Scissors is on the way up. Plus, with current trends in the league, you really want someone who can be effective against Paper, and I feel like Scissors is that player -- we all know about Rock's problems against Paper.

20
by dbostedo :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:10am

+1

18
by Yaguar :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 8:45am

Chris Myers, the Houston Center, is a steal at 7. Ravens Pass Rusher Pernell McPhee is a steal at 3.5.

21
by Jimmy :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:35pm

Apparently Lance Briggs is the 26th best linebacker in football. I guess seven straight Pro Bowls don't go as far as they used to (and lets face it, with the sack totals he gets it isn't the fans voting him in every single year, as a starter). He has been the best Will in football for quite a while and plays both coverage and the run as well as any other LB in football. 26th!

Sorry Mr Waldman, that is daft.

Also Mario Williams isn't better than Julius Peppers, he just isn't.

22
by Eddo :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 1:03pm

Isn't age a factor here, though? For this season, I'd definitely take Briggs and Peppers over [Linebacker #25] and Williams, but maybe not three years from now.

23
by chemical burn :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 1:38pm

If forced to choose, I'd take Williams over Peppers even this year. It's pretty close to a wash. You'd end up with an excellent DE either way. If age is a factor then it's no contest.

24
by Jimmy :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 2:06pm

I don't know if age is a factor. It isn't overly clear.

30
by Dan :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 6:39pm

Q: Am I building a team just for this season, or is it "dynasty" mode?

Waldman: "You’re building it how ever you believe fits your philosophy. This is not fantasy football. If you think you can build a team that can compete for a decade based on your process, go for it. If you think it is more realistic to only look a few years down the road, do that. Up to to you."

And that is when I switched my QB from Brady to Rodgers.

34
by Jimmy :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 12:04pm

That doesn't explain how the values are calculated.

36
by Dan :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 2:33pm

That means that age should be a factor in building our teams. It was also a factor in setting player values:

"Player values are based on these factors:
Age
Talent
Draft status
Injury history
Ability to fit with multiple schemes"

29
by tuluse :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 6:20pm

Briggs and Urlacher are both worth less than Tillman. Which seems ridiculous to me.

If there is some kind of position adjustment, then guards seem horribly over valued.

44
by Mr Shush :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 9:20am

And centers.

25
by mschuttke :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 2:50pm

QB: Andrew Luck (12.5), Greg McElroy (1), Stephen McGee (.5)
HB: Doug Miller (6.5), Chris Rainey (2), Aaron Brown (.5)
FB: Marcel Reese (1.5)
SE: Demaryius Thomas (6), Ryan Whalen (.5)
FL: A.J. Green (9), Randall Cobb (6.5), Charly Martin (.5)
TE: Dustin Keller (3) Ladarius Green (1.5), Andrew Quarles (.5) Richard Quinn (.5)
LT: Bobby Massie (3), Mike Person (1)
LG: Branden Albert (6), Jason Spitz (.5),
C: Eric Wood (4.5), Chris Spencer (1)
RG: David DeCastro (7), Marcus Cannon (2)
RT: Anthony Davis (4.5), Jonathon Scott (1)

LE: Red Bryant (4.5), Cameron Heyward (.5)
1T: Terrance Knighton (.5) Ron Brace (.5)
3T: Ndakumong Suh (9.5), Corey Liuget (.5), Stephen Paea (.5)
LEO: Ryan Kerrigan (6) Shea McClellin (4.5)
SB: Donta Hightower (4.5), Mark Hezerlich (1)
MB: James Laurenaitis (7), Keith Brooking (.5)
WB: K.J. Wright (4), Geno Hayes (1)
CB: Morris Claiborne (6.5), Ras-I Dowling (1.0), Dimitri Patterson (1.0), DeMarcus
Van Dyke (1.0), Kyle Wilson (.5), Walter Thurmond (.5)
SS: Eric Berry (6), Tyler Sash (.5)
FS: Dwight Lowery (.5) Chris Conte (.5)

K: Stephen Gostkowski (3.5)
P: Nic Harris (.5)

26
by mschuttke :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 2:50pm

It is a great exercise in nerdy fun. I listed my team above with the values assigned to each in the spreadsheet. Similar offense to Ben Muth's and a Pete Carroll type 4-3 over/under front defense. Not mentioned but Randall Cobb would handle return duties. Overall, solid everywhere but depth is an issue.

The biggest issue was deciding to go between Luck or Griffin at QB as the upside to both is obviously huge but I went with the "higher floor" versus "higher ceiling" player in this case and one who is familiar with the offense already.

I had also thought about downsizing Eric Berry to Tyvon Branch at safety to save $1million and make cuts at cornerback and receiver, downgrading Claiborne and Cobb with lesser parts and use the savings to have Matthew Stafford at QB.

I may try the "real cap" option to make it more "true to life."

As has been stated by others, Knighton is a ridiculous value, as is Lowery.

27
by tuluse :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 5:49pm

QB: Jay Cutler (14), Kyle Orton (6)
RB: Pierre Thomas (4), Chris Ivory (2), Kahili Bell (2)
WR: Vincent Jackson (7.5), Victor Cruz (6.5), Earl Bennett (3.5), Jacoby Jones (2)
TE: Dustin Keller (3), John Carlson (2), Matt Spaeth (1)
OT: Trent Williams (7.5), Gabe Carimi (6.5), J'Marcus Webb (2.5)
OG: Chris Kuper (4.5), Lance Louis (4), Chris Williams (2.5)
C: Doug Legursky (1), Chris Spencer (1)

DE: Cameron Wake (8), Kyle Vanden Bosch (4), Ray Edwards (2)
DT: Henry Melton (4), Rocky Bernard (1), Stephen Paea (.5)
OLB: Lance Briggs (6.5), Rey Maualuga (4), Tim Shaw (1.5)
MLB: Brian Urlacher (7.5), Barrett Ruud (2.5)
CB: Jabari Greer (5.5), Dunta Robinson (5), DJ Moore (.5), Corey Graham (1)
S: Laron Landry (4.5), Chris Conte (.5), Danieal Manning (2.5), Major Wright (1.5)

K: Phil Dawson (2)
P: Adam Podlesh (1.5)

I'm going to run a Tampa 2 defense. Wake was the the cheapest of the great DEs, and I think he's better than a number of guys ahead of him. Vanden Bosch is a perfect complimentary end. I'm pretty high on Melton being a disruptive 3 technique. My other DTs aren't so good, but I think I can hide them and Paea has tons of potential. I probably spent too much on my linebackers, but Briggs and Urlacher were both deals (no way Willis is 2 points more valuable than Urlacher last year), and I love watching Maualuga play. I think the secondary should be solid all around and play well in a cover 2 zone.

On offense I'd run the Norv Turner offense. V Jack would be in the same role stretching vertically. I think he and Cruz would open stuff up for Bennett and the TEs to work underneath (Keller seems like a huge steal to me). I trusted Muth for the most part on the line, but I didn't want to spend that much on guards.

I wanted to avoid rookies in general give me someone who has proved something in the NFL.

Also, you can see there is some Bear homerism in there.

Edit: The weakness of my team is corner depth, DT, and receiver depth. I think QB depth more than makes up for receiver depth. On defense the Bears get away with mostly average tackles and little depth at corner so I figure it will work for my team too.

31
by mschuttke :: Tue, 07/03/2012 - 7:01pm

Your roster needs to be 53 guys I'm pretty sure.

41
by tuluse :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 12:20am

That's what I get for trying to do this at work.

32
by Leyoz :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 7:22am

Tell me who is buying Jeff Linkenbach for 6 points?

33
by falcochicquera :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 8:58am

As everyone else is posting their full teams:

Running the Texans' offense (Gary Kubiak as OC with plenty of inside/outside zone, intermediate route concepts and QB roll-outs)

QB: Aaron Rodgers, Graham Harrell, Stephen McGee
RB: Pierre Thomas, Bernard Pierce, La-Rod Stephens-Howling, Tony Fiammetta (FB)
WR: Mike Wallace, Jonathan Baldwin, Golden Tate, Louis Murphy, Matt Slater, Eric Page
TE: Kyle Rudolph, Joel Dreessen, Luke Stocker

OT: Trent Williams, Todd Herremans, Charles Brown, Donald Stephenson
IOL: Wade Smith, Eric Wood, Mike Briesel, Clint Boling, Doug Legursky

Running the Steelers' defense (LeBeau as DC running fire zones out of a 3-4 alignment with the DL 2 gapping, corners playing press-zone and Polamalu freelancing)

DL: Muhammad Wilkerson, Kendall Langford, Cameron Heyward, Pernell McPhee (Nickel rusher), Adam Carriker
NT: Terrence Knighton, Sammie Lee Hill

OLB: DeMarcus Ware, Lamarr Woodley, Sam Acho, Lawrence Sidbury
ILB: Donta Hightower, AJ Hawk, Bart Scott, Stephen Cooper

CB: Ike Taylor, Devin McCourty, Chris Cook, William Middleton, Cortez Allen
S: Troy Polamalu, Dwight Lowery, Mike Adams, Chris Conte, Brandon Merriweather

ST: Jay Feeley (K), Kevin Huber (P), Zak DeOssie (LS)

I've got a strong pass rush (Ware/Woodley), a pretty decent DL and OL given the money I spent on them, Polamalu with LeBeau and the best QB.
Weaknesses are the CBs (never normally hurts Pittsburgh), AJ Hawk and the tight ends.

35
by mschuttke :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 2:04pm

I would swap out Hawk and Scott at ILB for Akeem Dent and Rey Maualuga. Swap Manning at safety for Lowery and you would have an additional 1 mil in space left over to use elsewhere.

37
by falcochicquera :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 4:11pm

Huh? Maualuga (4m) is more expensive than Hawk (3m). Manning (2.5m) is more expensive than Lowery (0.5m). And Dent and Scott are the same price - and while as a Georgia and Falcons fan I certainly considered Dent, I took the superior blitzer for schematic reasons.

45
by mschuttke :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 2:37pm

I suggested Maualuga as a scheme fit and suggested downsizing Manning to Lowery so as to save a fairly significant chunk of money but not lose much in performance, therein using said savings to help boost the talent at ILB. On second thought, a more "cover-oriented" ILB (Bruce Carter? Keith Burnett?) may have been a better replacement for Hawk and/or Scott in that regard than Dent and been a better scheme fit as well.

56
by falcochicquera :: Wed, 07/11/2012 - 6:54pm

But I don't have Manning?
And how is Maualuga (who has only ever played in a 3-4) a better scheme fit for the MACK ILB than Hawk?
Burnett and Carter are twice the price of Scott and I'm right at the limit.
Sorry, but I really don't get what you are driving at.

38
by Raiderjoe :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 5:33pm

What is purpose here? Are these teams going yo play in Madden game? Otherwise if not how the hell do you know who did good or not?

39
by Shattenjager :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 6:21pm

I think the main point is really just to see how all of these people would approach team-building in a semi-realistic setting, not to see who does the best. Really, it's an offseason time-waster (and I do not mean that in a negative way).

40
by Intropy :: Wed, 07/04/2012 - 9:25pm

Sounds fun. Is there a page with the details needed to play along?

42
by Shattenjager :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 1:09am
43
by falcochicquera :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 6:05am

Yep - compare the team-builds so far in this thread.

- Dan has gone offense heavy even in his expensive team
- mschuttke has gone ultra-young with Keith Brooking as his only >27 yr old
- tuluse favours the Bears and has skewered older on D
- Rivers has great safeties and a strong OL, but only has one difference maker on the DL
- I've gone with 30 and under except for perfect scheme fits (Taylor, Troy, Scott) and am the only team without a mis-match TE

Plus it's all in an excel file so can be done at work. What's not to like during the dead time before TC starts

46
by mschuttke :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 2:48pm

I was under the impression this was to be done with a "franchise building" mindset. At that moment, the spirit of Jimmy Johnson took possession of my soul. During this period, I traded away Herschel Walker and Matt Forte for a bunch of Minnesota Vikings draft picks and a younger, cheaper back. Ditto for QB, banking on the growing pains but nice upside of Troy Aikman and Andrew Luck, etc. all other spots. Thankfully, the possession and its youth-movement effects ended there as I would not have enjoyed the publicity of appearing in ads regarding, ahem, "dysfunction." However, some other effects attributable to the possession occurred. Mysteriously, I woke and walked into my bathroom to find three large cans of hair spray that weren't there before, holding up my helmet-like coif.

47
by Shattenjager :: Thu, 07/05/2012 - 5:51pm

Since others have, I'll post my team.

QB: Peyton Manning (13.5), Chase Daniel (1), B.J. Coleman (3.5)
RB: Mario Fannin (1), LaRod Stephens-Howling (2), Evan Royster (1.5), Jacob Hester (1) (also FB)
TE: Tony Gonzalez (3), Julius Thomas (1.5), Andrew Quarless (0.5)
WR: Mike Wallace (7), Denarius Moore (5.5), Wes Welker (7), Ted Ginn (2), Ruvell Martin (0.5)
T: Russell Okung (8), Ryan Harris (4), Jonathan Scott (1), Marcus Cannon (2)
G: Brandon Brooks (3), Chris Kuper (4.5), Eric Olsen (0.5)
C: John Sullivan (4), Ben Jones (1), J.D. Walton (1.5) (also G)
DT: Ndamukong Suh (9.5), Cullen Jenkins (6.5), Jared Crick (2.5), Terrance Knighton (0.5), Antonio Johnson (0.5)
DE: Cameron Wake (8), Kyle Vanden Bosch (4), Shawne Merriman (0.5), George Selvie (0.5), Corey Liuget (0.5)
OLB: Akeem Ayers (3), Scott Fujita (3), Nick Roach (0.5), Bobby Carpenter (0.5)
MLB: E.J. Henderson (2), Rocky McIntosh (1)
CB: Asante Samuel (6), Jimmy Smith (6.5), Ras-I Dowling (1), Lito Sheppard (1), Roderick Hood (0.5)
S: Eric Weddle (5.5), Danieal Manning (2.5), Dwight Lowery (0.5), Sterling Moore (0.5)

Offense: We are going to spend whatever it takes to hire Rick Dennison and he will be able to build an offensive line and running game, to the extent that we need one. Nearly everyone on our line has played for Dennison, Gary Kubiak, or Mike Shanahan, so he should be able to put together a top-of-the-line unit quickly. This is going to be a much more pass-heavy offense than most of what Dennison has run, but he was after all the offensive coordinator of the '08 Broncos, who threw 620 passes.

Defense: We are running a 4-3, though I did bring in Knighton and Shawne Merriman to help have some flexibility to sneak in some 3-4 looks. (I know, Merriman's not great for that at this point, but he also only cost 0.5.)

The biggest difference between what I put together and what others have is that my team has a number of key players on the downside of their careers (Peyton Manning, Tony Gonzalez, Wes Welker, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Asante Samuel). I tried to make up for this potential problem by loading up my bench with a bunch of young guys who may develop into replacements for them (B.J. Coleman, Julius Thomas, Ras-I Dowling).

The biggest weaknesses that I can see are depth at CB and DE and my linebackers are definitely an uninspiring group. I'm counting on the ridiculous passing game being able to make up for those weaknesses. I'm also counting on the line and the Wallace/Welker/Moore/Gonzalez combo to keep the offense moving with an unproven QB (whichever it is--most likely Daniel) if anything happens to Manning.

I think that means my team is the riskiest so far, but I think putting Manning together with those weapons and a pretty talented Dennison-coached line could be special.

Back to studying.

49
by Leyoz :: Sun, 07/08/2012 - 7:56am

Hey this is fun!

Thoughts are you can make a damn good team with the stated 150 cap and the ratings given. Some player ratings seem off to me.

Here's my team, I'd be interested in criticism, my football knowledge is sorely tested here, especially the lower parts of the roster.

Concerns: Defensive backfield is very talented but very young. I believe in the DT's, but others may disagree. If I'm wrong about Andrew Luck the whole team is cooked. Considered finding a point and changing to Matt Ryan.

Offense:
QB:Andrew Luck,Dan Orlovsky, Tom Branstater
RB:Pierre Thomas ,Donald Brown, Chris Ivory
WR: A.J. Green, Emmanuel Sanders, Jordan Shipley, T.Y. Hilton, Golden Tate, Eric Weems
TE:Rob Gronkowski, Joel Dreessen, Kevin Boss (considered Tony Moeaki here)
FB: I really don;t know, someone cheap, we wil lsay Chris Gronkowski but I have no idea about the cheap fullbacks
T:Eugene Monroe, Ryan Harris, Bobby Massie
G: Branden Albert, Harvey Dahl, Trai Essex,Ben Ijalana (Would see how Ijalana washes out in camp - maybe at tackle)
C:Doug Legursky, Chris Spencer

Defense (4-3):
CB: Patrick Peterson, Morris Claiborne, Brice McCain, Alphonso Smith, Ras-I Dowling, Roderick Hood, Kyle Wilson
Safety: Eric Berry, Danieal Manning, Dwight Lowery,Rahim Moore
DE:  Carlos Dunlap, Charles Johnson, Willie Young, Brian Robison
DT: Linval Joseph, Drake Nevis, Terrance Knighton, Antonio Johnson, Stephen Paea
LB: Philip Wheeler, Erin Henderson, E.J. Henderson, Brendon Ayanbadejo, Clint Session, Chase Blackburn
K:Ryan Longwell
P:Ben Graham

50
by mschuttke :: Sun, 07/08/2012 - 3:01pm

Personally, I think Ryan gives you an established middle-of-the-road starter versus the higher ceiling of a guy like Luck, for whatever that is worth.

51
by Shattenjager :: Sun, 07/08/2012 - 9:03pm

I question the value of Donald Brown and Chris Ivory. Thomas is good enough that it doesn't so much bother me to spend $4 million on him, and I understand that his career highs are 147 carries and 186 touches, but it seems an awful lot to spend for what you're getting to take Brown and Ivory.

I would not take Alphonso Smith if he were free.

However, I still think my team is the worst anyone's put up by a fair margin, so that's probably a sign of how much I know.

52
by Leyoz :: Sun, 07/08/2012 - 10:15pm

The Running back situation is a problem of my limited football knowledge. Of the 0.5 running backs I really couldn't say who was good and who wasn't. I think running back by committee is a good way to go, and I do like Donald Brown. I think his all round skills of pass blocking (came a long way there since Goddmammit Donald), receiving and running. Ivory was my obvious running situation back.

That means 10 mill on running backs which on reflection does seem alot.

Suggestions to change up the runners?

53
by Shattenjager :: Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:20am

I think it depends a bit on what you want to do with them. Since you took Thomas and you commented about Brown's blocking/receiving skills, I'm guessing that you do want some skills in the passing game.

LaRod Stephens-Howling is a nice situational player who's only $2 million. He's excellent in the passing game, mediocre as a runner, and good on special teams for very little money. If you want a bit more upside, Joe McKnight is 2.5 and pretty similar. Jeremiah Johnson is a big guy who hasn't played much in the NFL but as I understand it was supposed to be a good blocker and receiver and he's only 1, though I should note that from what I saw of him last year I doubt he's ever going to be a good runner. Taiwan Jones is 2.5 and was considered a dangerous returner and receiver coming out of the draft, though he's injury prone and is an undersized speedster. Mike Goodson and Tim Hightower are pretty good receivers but not very good runners.

I went with Mario Fannin for my team because he came into the league with a good reputation as a receiver and returner, had an off-the-charts speed score, and was apparently extremely impressive in practice time last year before he got hurt. For $1 million, I took a flyer there. However, I was also planning on having a team that (a) wouldn't run the ball that much and (b) had Rick Dennison taking care of the running game anyway.

54
by Dan :: Mon, 07/09/2012 - 2:52am

For solid but boring RB depth, I like Jason Snelling (1), DJ Ware (1), Jackie Battle (0.5), and Brian Leonard (1). They're bigger backs who aren't shifty or electric, but they're solid pass blockers and all but Battle have good hands.

As a cheap flier there's also Andre Brown (0.5), who has a good size/speed combo.

55
by Intropy :: Mon, 07/09/2012 - 3:06am

That was fun to do. Whenever I ran out of ideas I tended to throw someone cheap from the Steelers into the pile. Or just a random name when really desperate since I didn't want to dig too deeply.

QB1: Aaron Rodgers
QB2: Nick Foles
QB3: Kellen Moore
RB1: Evan Royster
RB2: Jonathan Dwyer
RB3: Baron Batch
RB4: John Clay
TE1: Zach Miller
TE2: Coby Fleener
TE3: Joel Dreessen
FB: Vonta Leach
WR1: Mike Wallace
WR2: Malcolm Floyd
WR3: Laurent Robinson
WR4: Steve Smith
WR5: Emmanuel Arceneaux
LT: Jason Peters
RT: Jeromey Clary
OT: Marcus Cannon
LG: Louis Vasquez
RG: Matt Slauson
OG1: Senio Kemete
OG2: John Greco
OG3: Derek Hardman
C1: Mike Pouncey
C2: Doug Legursky

NT1: Paul Soliai
NT2: Steve McLendon
RDE: Brett Keisel
LDE: Pernell McPhee
DE1: Shaun Ellis
DE2: Cameron Heyward
DE3: Jerrell Powe
ROLB: James Harrison
ILB: Antwan Barnes
ILB: Brandon Spikes
LOLB: D.J. WIlliams
LB: Vontaze Burfict
LB: Brendon Ayanbadejo
LB: Brady Poppinga
LB: Akeem Jordan
CB1: Asanta Samuel
CB2: Ike Taylor
CB3: Drayton Florence
CB4: Cortez Allen
CB5: Keenan Lewis
CB6: Brandon Burton
SS: Troy Polamalu
FS: Quintin Mikell
S1: Brandon Meriweather
S2: James Ihedigbo
K: Billy Cundiff
P: Chris Kluwe

And apparently no long snapper. One of the offensive linemen is just going to have to figure that out.