i see the colts giving 8.5 to the steelers. Does this mean there are questions to whether big ben will play or does vegas think that the colts are 8.5 points better than the steelers no matter how healthy the steelers are?

Charles (#1 )--

Roethlisberger is listed as "probable," so there likely remain questions about his effectiveness and ability to complete the game.

And given how the Steelers have performed without him, it's also fair to say the line reflects a certain discount on the team as a whole.

Which is to say, it's both. :-)

Does anyone know what's considered a good pick percentage for picking straight win/loss in nfl games? I'm trying to figure that out with beatpaths. King Kaufman's (salon.com) toddler son picks (through the hand of King) by always picking seven-point favorites to win, and then flipping a coin for the rest, so he'd be picking Indianapolis. Through last week, he was 110-50 which is the best percentage I've seen for this season so far. So far beatpaths power rankings are better than 60% but it bothers me that it isn't better than a toddler. :)

Indy might win, but I'd be surprised if they covered.

Bengals and Indy are very similiar teams. but the Steelers match up well with the Colts.

What will determine whether Indy wins or not is how smart the steelers are with their blitz packages. Peyton Manning is one of the hardest QBs in the NFL to blitz effectively. The Steelers also have a habit of repeated blitzing and blitzing right into max protects.

I think the Bengals really threw the game away against the colts. On nearly every third down against the colts, they blitzed or big blitzed and every time they did, they got burned. In the second half when they started doing it less, they started actually stopping the colts D.

If the Steelers learn from that and play smart, they'll win. If they fall into their blitz traps and Roethlisberger isn't playing, they'll lose.

Personally, I think the Steelers are a better team and when they play their A game, are one of the top two teams in the NFL (I think they're comparable to Denver).

This Colts team that people keep raving doesn't strike me as being any better then the one the last couple years - just with a nicer schedule.

The Eagles descent into injury nightmare continues. Left Tackle Tra Thomas is now out for the season with a back injury requiring surgery. That is now 11 Eagles on IR, plus Jerome McDougle and JR Reed on the PUP list - 13 total of the originally expected 53 man roster.

The starting O-line against Green Bay will be:

LT - Todd Herremans (4th round 2005, no starts)
LG - Adrien Clarke (7th round 2004, no starts)
C - Jamal Jackson (rookie free agent, 3 starts)
RG - Shawn Andrews (1st round 2004, 11 starts)
RT - John Runyan (veteran, 138 starts)

This should be interesting for Mike McMahon!

Tunesmith-
For picking outright winner I think you want to be around 70% to feel special. I think just picking the home team nets you around 60% and just picking the favorite is about 63% I was felling pretty good last year at 68%, but I was a suspect 54% against the spread (which is much more difficult). I always love seeing the ESPN "experts" touting thier 59% win percentage when they would do better just picking the favorite or home team.

Everyone-
Just out of curiosity I watched that Harrington pick Mariucci threw a fit about and the ball ws at least 10-15 yards out of Harrington's hand before WIlliams stumbled. The ball was 2/3s of the way there before he fell so that was hardly Harrington's fault. If you watch without paying attetion it looks like a reckless toss, but when the ball was released it was a good throw.

check the OL problems for the Steelers, the replacement at that position last week was a turnstile , but this was rarely mentioned while everyone's focus was on Maddox . . .

I meant left tackle on the OL; sorry . . .

OK,I took my own advice . . .

Marvel Smith is back at LT, but he has the dreaded high ankle sprain, which probably means that he won't be 100 percent . . . that's not good news against Dwight Freeney . . .

I have a big time trade pending and I hope I will get some feedback. I am thinking about trading Shaun Alexander & Dominack Davis for L.T. and Portis. My rationale is that Alexander will eventually see limited time because of the Seahawks record but my main concern is Davis for Portis. For some reason (mainly their schedule) I feel that Dominack is superior for the rest of the season. Am I being paranoid?

make the trade . . . Seattle has an easy schedule and homefield will be locked up, so he may miss your final game . . . Portis>DD anyway . . .

good luck . . .

I'm not sure about Alexander. After the whole thing last year with him missing the rushing title by a few yards, I wouldn't be surprised if they made sure he got it this year, even if that means giving him some carries when they normally wouldn't.

you think they are going to risk his health by going after an individual award??? You must be kidding . . .;

Harrington has improved in each of the last three seasons (check the stats on this site), despite everything else going against him (coaching changes, coaches not showing confidence in him, etc). I think he's gotten a raw deal, and maybe he needs to go someplace else.

Anyway, I'm watching "NFL Matchup" on ESPN right now, and they just had a little thing on Antonio Gates. Why is it that teams seem to give him a free release off the line on every play?

Q: Status as far as Willie Roaf this week?

VERMEIL: “Willie Roaf will start. He had a good week of practice. He’s excited about it.�

Q: Patrick Surtain’s status?

VERMEIL: “I think he’ll be ready to go.�

Tunesmith

I ran a pick-em pool at our office for years where we just picked winners each week. Every year we'd have about 40 people in the pool ranging from big fans to someones Irish Setter. The winner would always come in at around 70% at the end of the year. I think the best we ever had was just under 75%. (The Irish Setter usually finished in the middle of the pack)

Oh sorry, I'm going to watch that comedy show with Martin Lawrance on ESPN.

Eyuch. Why do FOOTBALL pregame shows have to hawk shoddy movies?

Ken Dorsey at QB for SF and Jose Cortez kicking. I like Tennessee giving the points.
Eagles missing the left side of their O-line, and Ravens missing the right side.
Fred Taylor is inactive.

Win 3 of 5 for the Chargers today. (I hope) Can you East coasters keep me updated? Please?!?!?
I am in Idaho and they are showing Bears/Bucks here.

Re: 15
Is that why Gates is always wide open?

Whenever I watch Charger games I'm amazed by how open he is most of the time. I always thought it was because of his ability.

Today is the rare day when my "adopted because I'm on the west coast" team faces my "diehard fan" team. I don't think it's good for the Redskins... San Diego has way too many weapons. Even after accounting for Gates and LDT, McCardell and Caldwell aren't bad wide receivers, if Caldwell doesn't fumble around the red zone.

It seems like teams have figured out Washington's defense. Poor pass rush, meaning using the blitz to generate pressure. Last year team's were surprised when Springs came off the corner, but this year they've moved the protection... and by the way you just blitzed your best cover cornerback.

Roaf in at tackle.

RE: 1

I'd say it's because Roethlisberger was banged up. The line has been moving up, though, which means that bettors have no confidence in Pitt.

Random question... because of the Thanksgiving day games does the NFL make those referee crews do double duty so they can bump the two worst performing officiating crews?

I hate Bill Vinovich's crew with a passion.

Are you ready for some 2-8 football?

I hate rooting for the Ravens. But I have to.

Go Ravens.

This opening drive for the Ravens is the best i've seen Jamal Lewis run all year.

Maybe because he's playing the Bengals Defense?

Either way, he's rolling.

I've never been so happy for a holding penalty for my own team, wiping out a Chris Brown TD. (Have McNair on my fantasy team)

And of course the Ravens passing game Boller-ed it up.

Derek Mason wide open in the endzone.

Jeff Fisher's going for it on 4th and 6, in the first quarter, against the 49ers. TMQ will not be happy. And indeed, it fails. TAKE THE POINTS.

Great call by billick. line up for a 52 yard field and they pooch punted it inside the 5. Bengals starting on their own 2.

Chargers just ran another LT pass. They were in shotgon formation, Brees handed to LT and LT rolled right, and passed back to Brees.

Play was broken up by Marcus Washington.

San Diego just missed a FG... they were helped by a BS personal foul on Lavar Arrington (got in a shoving match after the play with a SD linesman).

Bears strip Pinky the Simms on the Bucs one yard line, play action for TD.

Tennessee went for it on 4th and 6 in FG range?

Strange play just happened.

On a 3rd and 10 the Redskins just passed it to Moss beyond the sticks, he gets pushed back and fumbles the ball, recovered 3 yards short of the sticks.

Can the Redskins challenge for "forward progress"? Moss was pushed back... I don't get why they don't give him foward progress.

Re #36:

Tennessee was at the SF 29. I'm not sure what the wind situation is, or if Bironas is hurt.

RE: 3

I think 65% is generally considered good.
I'm participating in a picking contest. I missed the first two weeks, but I'm at 75% since, which is unfathomably good.

Yep Sid, I'm the one stuck watching Titans vs. 49ers, and there is no competing game on CBS.

I think it was DESPERATION, myself.

1-10-SD 28 (9:40) L.Tomlinson sacked at SD 21 for -7 yards (M.Washington).

Sacked??

Good God I hate the Ravens. They are letting Cincy drive right down the field on them (This is going to be a 98 yard TD drive) and it was all fueled early on by another illegal contact penalty on Chris McCalister that would have been a 3rd and 9 from the 2.

Also, Deion Sanders has no business being on an NFL football field at this point. To see a picture of Deion in action today click on my name.

Good play by Pacman. Even if he didn't get the tackle, the next man would've got him. Nice and physical.

Re #42:

It was Brees. Tomlinson had thrown the Chargers' previous pass, and Gamecenter never reset.

1-10-SD 28 (9:40) L.Tomlinson sacked at SD 21 for -7 yards (M.Washington).
2-17-SD 21 (9:10) L.Tomlinson up the middle to SD 19 for -2 yards (L.Arrington; C.Killings).
3-19-SD 19 (8:32) (Shotgun) L.Tomlinson sacked at SD 10 for -9 yards (sack split by M.Washington and R.Clark).

Haha, great.

Redskins defense just saved their field position. Chargers had the ball around their 25 and were sacked twice.

Now Washington has the ball around mid-field in a scoreless game mid-way through the first quarter.

Chargers have bottled up Portis pretty good... drove the ball well on their first drive but didn't get any points (Kaeding missed figgy by a foot).

anyone know who the commentator is on CBS for Pats-Chiefs with Dick Enberg? Usually it's Dierdorf, who is awful, the guy today is better

John Hall kicks a field goal. Short (20+ yard drive) by the Redskins, set up by their defense.

Tracking fumbles in the Redskins game.

Moss fumbles, recovered by Redskins. LDT fumbles, recovered by the Chargers.

Mike Nolan has the good sense to have his team kick, but the kick is wide. 0-0

49ers call the Buzz Two as they have no one in the flat. 58 yard reception by Brown

Why do teams continue to sign Jose Cortez? There must be better alternatives out there.

The Bears offense is especially putrid today.

WTF, Pacman endaround?

Redskins defense is completely fired up for this game... getting a lot of pressure on blitzes and making a lot of hits.

Schifers just dropped a punt on the Skins 10 yards line... that guy is a good punter.

I'm going to buy a wind machine to make this game way more interesting. Sideways field goals = ratings.

RE: 38

I just can't believe they did that. The only way I can understand it is if Bironas pulled something and they have no one else who can kick at all.

Following a screen shot of injured Ravens Linebacker Ray Lewis which followed an ad promo for Survivor:

"Now THERES a guy you wouldn't want to be stuck with on an island if you had to survive."

RE: 5

Jamaal Jackson is a 3rd year player.

Tom Brady, 3 for 8, 14 yds, 2 INT? What's going on there?

The above was an actual comment by one of the announcers of the Ravens-Bengals game......

WTF? Houston is ahead of STL 14-0

The Tennessee defense is horrible.

stupid move by Houston. How are they going to get Reggie Bush if they win?

Chris Henry fumbles. Ravens recover, take over on their own 40.

Cincy challenged, but lost.

LDT was driven in by an offensive lineman....

Not a good drive for the Washington defense... they kept a cushion off of Brees and he kept hitting the WRs for 10-15 yard gains. Then they ran a nice reverse right past Sean Taylor to set up the touchdown.

Re: Pats-Chiefs

The second commentator is Rich Gannon.

Both Brady's picks were high throws that were tipped by the receiver (first Branch, the Troy Brown).

WOW!

3rd and 24 for the Ravens. Boller gets sacked for a 10 yard loss. And Brian Simmons gets flagged for an illegal contact penalty. 5 yard penalty. Automatic first down.

Thanks Brian!

Robert Royal drops more easy catches than any player I've ever seen.

Brunell is worse than Delhomme when it comes to locking in on one WR. All you need to do to beat Washington is to cover Moss, it seems.

I appreciate this Matthew!

The announcers in the Ravens-Bengals game are absolutely putrid. I don't know who they are, and I don't really care.

Bobby Wade is the worst player in NFL history. Seriously.
(OK, maybe not, but he is awfully bad)

Announcer, on Fisher going on it on 4th for the third time: "Jeff Fisher is playing videogame football."

Will Demps for the Ravens hit the triple crown: got beat on the pass, face masked the guy on the tackle, *and* got himself injured.

Moss TD for the Skins... good drive for them.

Jeff Fisher is on crack today. What the heck is he doing?
The wind is somewhat strong, but still.

Fitzpatrick is in at QB for the Rams. Injury?

25: I’d say it’s because Roethlisberger was banged up. The line has been moving up, though, which means that bettors have no confidence in Pitt.

I don't think it's nearly so much no confidence in Pittsburgh as it is jumping on the Colts bandwagon... The logic becomes "They're 10-0, how can I lose with them?"

RE: 80

Martin had a head injury.

Ravens start at midfield. Lewis runs for 12 yards on 2 carries. Play 3: Boller goes deep.....intercepted.

Boller is 2/7 14 yards. 1 pick.

What's the record for most 4th down conversion attempts in a game?

Didn't the Titans have a game last year in Indy where they tried like 3 onside kicks in the first half?

17-0 Bengals.

Chad Johnson scored on like a 50 yard pass, put the football down in the endzone, picked up the orange pilon in the corner of the endzone, and used the pilon as a putter, and putted the football.

The announcers comment:

"HE'S A TIGER! JUST LIKE TIGER WOODS!"

The Ravens offense. Just wow. Worst in the league. Kyle Boller at QB and Jamal Lewis at RB. Can it get any worse?

RE: 85

Yes. They also tried a fake punt in that game. Didn't help them. They still got blown out.

The Titans suck. And I started McNair and Titans D. If you can't start a player against the 49ers, when can you start him?

I just saw the Texans/Rams highlights. Carr is 13/17 for 171 and 3 TDs. On the three plays he scored on, he's looked poised and, well, good.

Is St. Louis really that bad?

Redskins 10
Chargers 7
At the half.

Offenses have looked decent, but defenses have held, except the two TD drives. It looked like the Redskins offense was about to get rolling, with the nice TD drive to answer SD touchdown, but they were stopped around the 50 yard line by a good play by Donnie Edwards to stuff Portis followed by an incomplete pass.

SD got the ball back with 3 minutes left and had picked up a first down on a 15+ yard gain by LDT. Their drive also stalled around the 50 and there were less than 30 seconds on the clock.

San Diego will get the ball back after halftime.

The Redskins made a defensive adjustment, bringing in Carlos Rogers over Walt Harris after the TD drive... we'll see if the rookie sees a lot of the field after the half.

It's going to be another nail-biter!

Why wasn't thier a clock runoff after that false start in the lines game.

False start at :12 ref says run 10 secs off clock, cut to commercial, comes back from commmercial incomplete pass :08 secs left and then FG. So what happened to the runoff? It did look as though they had backed clevland up...

RE: 90

On the road without their top 2 QBs and a starting WR? Yes.

Chris Simms just got himself a reception from ... Chris Simms.
Alex Brown has 3 or 4 batted balls already.

"On the road without their top 2 QBs and a starting WR? Yes."

And that explains giving up 24 in a half to Houston?

Here's my hypothesis. Larry Marmie.

Kaeding's missed two field goals now, Skins still up by 3.

Looks like St Louis is going for the triple crown of losing to San Francisco, Arizona, and Houston.

Sproles returned opening kickoff past the 50. After a couple first downs, the Redskins get a sack on 3rd down around the 28. Kaeding misses another FG. He'sm issed from 42 and 46.

#90 Yes STL is eally that bad. The Seahawks are the only team in the division thats in the top 3/4s of the league.

That's Sproles from Kansas State, right?

my other post looks like it got mangled somehow. ANyway ANyone know what happened to the runoff in the CLE/MIN game. It was never explained that I saw.

The Texans in a nutshell:

4-6-HOU30 (11:35) R.Fitzpatrick pass intended for Jerome.Carter INTERCEPTED by M.Murphy at HST 14. M.Murphy to HST 20 for 6 yards (I.Bruce). FUMBLES (I.Bruce), RECOVERED by SL-S.Jackson at HST 21. S.Jackson to HST 21 for no gain (J.Bell).

I've got the Bucs/Bears game.

The Bears are having a field day against the Bucs O-Line. Tommie Harris on nearly every play is being double-teamed and is driving BOTH guys back 3 yards on RUN plays.

Starting to be a defensive struggle, Redskins drive killed by holding penalty on the first play. Chargers take over at their own 25. No turnovers...

Baltimore is not good.

FYI.

I just made a bet with my wife that Brian Billick gets fired before the week ends.

If I win: Sex every night for a week.

If she wins: I have to cook dinner every night for a week.

I am not an avid follower of the AFC, but I would personally enjoy seeing Brian Billick humiliated today.

That self-promoting, smug, overbearing SOB got more career mileage from a fluke season as a coordinator then anyone.

To paraphrase Nicholson's line from Prizzi's Honor, if Billick's so ****in' smart how come his offenses ****in' s*ck?

... and Brees throws an "Interception" to L. Arrington. This play will be overturned... he bobbled the ball all the way down to the ground.

Yes... the Darren Sproles from Kansas State. I think h e might be leading the league in kickoff returns.

What is going on in Kansas City!?!?!?

Another 3 and out in Washington.

Wow, Housmandozah was a great keeper for Cincinnati... the rest of the league slept on him.

That San Diego punter is a beast! Comparing him to the horrible Redskins punter, he gets 5 times more hang time and height on his kicks. It's a shame Tom Tupa threw out his back...

I hope I lose the bet just so I can watch the Ravens finish 3-13 and then pick VInce Young with their first pick.

Chad Johnson has cramps. Should be back later in the game.

Is there no better play in football than the RB sending a blitzing linebacker head over heels?

What is going on in Kansas City!?!?!?
Patriots have no running game. Chiefs are getting pressure on Brady, so he's throwing a lot of his passes high to avoid getting them batted. The Patriots defense is only stopping the Chiefs in the red zone (which is actually an improvement for them), so the Chiefs have hit 4 FGs. And the Patriots secondary just gave up their weekly huge TD pass, Green to Hall.

RE: 95

The St. Louis defense hasn't been that good over the past few seasons, and yes, Marmie's Ds tend to stink.
He's the anti-Lovie Smith.

Adam:

You WANT the Ravens to draft Vince Young?

Redskins ran a quick WR screen to Moss for 16 yards... couple plays later they get one on the other side to Portis....

Red Zone....

TOUCHDOWN WASHINGTON REDSKINS!

ROCK CARTWRIGHT! ROCK CARTWRIGHT ROCK CARTWRIGHT!

Looking like Preist Holmes...

RE: 105

I think you'll be cooking a lot of dinner this week.

Make that next week, or whenever it would be.

Rock Cartwright, official spot tailback of Football Outsiders, has just scored a touchdown.

Funny stat: the 4 TD drives for the Bengals took less time combined than the FG drive itself.

This is amazingly bad football.

RE: 114

He's a Steelers fan. Of course he does.

... and Cartwright comes back and makes the tackle on the kickoff...

..

Sid:

Ahhhhh, that makes sense.

Thanks for the clarification.

I think that Ravens offense is going to give the Bengals a legit shot at putting up 50 today.

In the 3rd quarter, Steve McNair is 5/6 for 144 yards and 3 tds.

Oh bloody hell, why are the Bengals still throwing?

Pittsburgh would have gone to nothing but runs by now.

If San Diego can't score here, they're in trouble.

Wow, that laugh by Randy Cross after the SD field goal was creepy as hell.

Kaeding hits from 47. 17-10 Redskins over Chargers... I suppose kicking the FG was the correct call for Schottenheimer...

Watch Portis stumble on his runs guys... did he stumble while at Denver?

Ohhh... stupid Redskins offense...

That's it, I'm finally muting Randy Cross and Marv Albert, er... whoever the other guy is.

I just now realized that tonights game will feature two 2-8 football teams. Thats amazing because it will make the comments from the three amigos even funnier.

I'll set the over/under at 6 for number of times Mike Patrick refers to someone on one of these teams as "the best in the league."

Wow.

The Ravens just scored two touchdowns in less than two minutes.

Still the entire 4th quarter left to play.

Well, Minnesota salted it away against the Browns.

If Kyle was ever going to demonstrate the gifts so many folks around here insist he has been putting on display now would be a good time.......

Redskins interception!

That was a horrible decision by Brees....

WOW!

Deion picks off Carson and returns to the 30 in Cincy territory, fumbles the ball, and Baltimore falls on it.

Ugh... Redskins getting killed by horrible special teams (punter) and also some bad play calling... should have run on that 3rd and 2... now San Diego has another chance

C'mon defense............

TB misses the field goal.

Wow......

This is an offensive choke-fest in the 2nd half.... argh... if Washing t is not going to get any first downs they just need to run-run-run and get time off the clock.

Bears can almost run the clock out now.

Touchdown Ravens!

We got a football game for the time being.

Lot of big comebacks today.
Cincy choked. How do they turn the ball over twice so quickly? And how does their pass D collapse like that?

Carolina on "Any Given Sunday" again? It could happen. Or Losman could throw an interception. Maybe next week.

I can't believe Robert Royal hasn't been benched. This guy has done nothing but drop passes all day (and all season). I'm just more and more astonished each time I see him drop another that he's still on the field.

Also, Walt Harris continues to be brutal.

Tom Brady set a personal high for INTs in a game.

In KC, Brady throws his fourth pick (three were tipped by the receiver first) at the two-minute warning.

Game over.

Although I still say the Miami game last year was worse than this one.

Well the thought of a Ravens comeback was nice but it was just a dream.

Rudi Johnson runs em down inside the 5.

Oh well.

Gotta win tomorrow.

Chiefs Pats is done. Brady interception. Brady not looking like a leader to me. Poor non-verbals/body language, poor throws. Still, you look at their run in and the Pats look a lock for the play offs.
Maybe they,ve identified the division games as the vital ones they're just not too bothered today?

'Skins defense just melted down. They got called for three consecutive penalties, and then give up a 32 yard TD run to LDT, untouched.

Phew. Bears eke it out.

Two games where folks figured Chicago would get stomped and instead they scrapped out wins.

Still waiting for that offense to put some drives together.

But thankfully, the defense doesn't seem to fazed about the situation. :)

And another Redskins game follows the script of offense can't make 2nd half first downs, defense can't hold anyone and the lead vanishes. All that is left is the loss, which can be directly pointed as the only reason for loss by the fans due to a somewhat shaky late call (Alstott 2 pt conversion, Jordan non-fumble).

Sid (#147 )--

Four INTs only ties Brady's career high. He also threw four in last year's debacle at Miami.

Re:#101

What happened is that Dilfer called a timeout; I guess after the false start, so it prevented the 10 second runoff. Or something like that...

Go for the TD Gibbs!

The Bengals have given up 29 points to the Ravens.

That's pretty sad.

Atrocious Redskins, absolutely atrocious.

Hall misses a 52 yarder for Washington...

I'm going to Primanti Brothers to watch the Penguins game. I'll be back tonight with the SNF script, my thoughts on tomorrows big game, and why calig23 has unspeakable things running through his mind 24/7.

Hmm, it looks like St. Louis recovered the onside kick. They trail by 3...

Neil Rackers's perfect season goes down. Good thing he missed it now so he wouldn't shank one in the playoffs... Oh wait.

Hail Mary picked off, Chargers go to OT in (okay, near) DC.

is anyone watching the redskins game? looks like the chargers were getting close to field goal range and a gates false start pushed 'em back and took time off the clock.

Rams tied it up.

Brees threw an INT in the endzone.

Neil Rackers missed a FG!

does houston want to win this game? seriously?

It pushed them back, but took no time off the clock.

Hey, SF recovered the onside kick. They're down by 11...

Brees went from one of the greatest games by a QB this season to an atrocious performance against Washington. I guess it's that the Redskins' D is a lot better than Buffalo's, and Gates was banged up...

Huge 40-plus yard TD run in OT, Chargers win, completing the sweep of the 'Skins by the AFC West.

Just a general question. Are there any companys showing NFL that allow the viewer to chose from a selection of camera angles?

Be really interesting from behind the QB or safeties.

And Tomlinson ends the Redskins season. Took 2 whole plays for the Chargers to score.

The Chargers go from a game where they threw 3 picks, down 17-7 at one point and missing 2 field goals to not only winning but covering.

San Diego didn't cover in Ontario...they were favored by 6.5 up here. Fortunately, I picked the 'Skins. Unfortunately, I also had the Rams at 6.5

... and Feagles sets the record! Whoo!

YYYYEEEEEEEEEEHHHAAAAawwww!!! Man that was awesome! I wish I could have seen that game...and of course our local affiliates didn't switch to OT. oh well. Thanks for the color commentary guys!!

Question about the Browns:

What exactly are they getting out of keeping Dilfer as the QB? Especially when he was apparently pretty banged up in this game. I mean, sure, Frye threw a pick in his only pass attempt of the game, but so what? The Browns aren't going anywhere this season, and Dilfer isn't (shouldn't) going to be the QB next year. Why not give Frye more action?

Any word on Leftwich? How did he get injured? Is it serious?

Oh, and the Brad Johnson experience continues with another win.

With Favre starting 0-4 passing I now await for the experts around here who will explain that all of Green Bay's problems begin and end with number 4.

If only he didn't try and make plays with a group of NFL Europe quality teammates. Why can't he just eat the ball every down like a sensible QB?

Like he thinks his team is going to score points or something. The guy is just out of control........

Leftwich injured his ankle. He's going into the locker room for X-rays, but could return.

RE: 175

In the US, the line was SD by 4.

How exactly did Houston lose that game?

Tale of 2 halves:

First half: Houston 24-3
Second half and OT: St. Louis 30-3

Redskins completely choked... offense, defense, special teams... play calling down to execution.

Why not keep passing on a bad passing defense!? Brunell was hitting everything today.

Rams win. Curtis with a 56 yard TD reception.

Due to the OT wins, I am having a very lucky week picking winners. 10 of 10. If this continues, the 74 Dolphins will get to celebrate tomorrow night (or early Tuesday)

The Texans remind me of an NFL Europe team.

How about the 72 Dolphins instead. The 74 Steelers might also do some celebrating too who knows. Let's all celebrate a Indy loss.

Nice snag by Jurevicious.

Seahawks fans must be thrilled to have receivers that can hold onto the ball.

GB fumbles the kickoff and then Westbrook makes them pay.

Man, what is Favre's problem? Why didn't he step up and make that play? C'mon, special teams and defense are part of the game too!

Pretty boy future Hall of Famers who think they are just too good to get their uniform dirty. Just wrong.........

I like the announcing crew for the Seahawks/Giants game. I actually feel like I'm being told information instead of overhyped points of emphasis.

5 false starts in one series by the Giants

Wow...The Giants just had 5 False Starts on ONE DRIVE - one 3 and out.

Those false starts were worth about 20 yards of field position for Seattle.

I second the notion that these announcers would destroy those ESPN sunday night clowns.

Re #175 San Diego didn’t cover in Ontario…they were favored by 6.5 up here.

It seems like you could really play the lines very well up there then, if you bet some live and some online.

I wonder how hard it is to assess the play calling of a coach outsite the execution of the team on the field.

Seattle seems to have great playcalling when things work, but when things don't work - particularly the running game - Holmgren seems to get all 'fraidy-cat with his play calling.

Funny how a team that has to show up early for meetings is getting repeatedly penalized for moving early during a play ...

The announcers are Dick Stockton, Daryl Johnston, and Siragusa on the sidelines.

BTW, a couple of weeks ago I heard Siragusa on his Monday night show with Joe Beningo on WFAN, and they're discussing the Jets injuries. Siragusa starts talking about how much bigger the players are, and how much more offseason work they have to do than in his day. Didn't he retire like 3 years ago?

Brian Dawkins avenges his missed tackle on Gado's TD run by clocking Bubba Franks. It didn't look that bad at first, but it's been a few minutes and Franks still hasn't gotten up.

re: 172 - That's the Holy Grail of football watching. I hope it happens in my lifetime.

re: 203 - Yeah, they just immobilized him and took him off on the cart. And it was Favre's fault, too. (Oh, nice D there by R. Hood.)

Yeah, I voted for them too Aaron.

My dream scenario involves everyone on the SNF crew getting fired and this entire crew moving to Sunday Night. They're really good.

I'm listening right now and they're talking about linemen gaps - Commentators NEVER talk about lineman spacing

I like Stockton and Johnston, but every time Tony Siragusa opens his mouth I feel dumber.

Seattle going 3 and out again and when did Alexander last touch the ball?

Watching the highlights... did anyone else think it looks like Bryant hit that field goal at the end? Or am I just crazy...

I thought it was good when I saw it live. But the back judge (or whoever it is that makes that call) is sitting right under the upright, so I have to think he has the best look at it.

Thank you, Brett Favre.

To me, it looked like it went over the upright, which is a good kick...

#183 Darn that exchange rate. Messes everything up.

Shameless Fantasy Football Query: What do we know about Byron Leftwich?

Giants get a nice call on the Shockey TD. Not sure if that should have been ruled a completion. Different rules for end zone?

Good for GB. Sheldon Brown clearly interfered on the previous play but no call.

re: 215 I think that there just weren't good angles on the play - the only shot Fox showed that actually showed the second foot was an overhead shot where you couldn't get very good depth perception because of the black shoe against the dark blue endzone.

As a Seattle fan I'm bummed, but not outraged.

Shockey clearly had control of the ball and at that instant he was accross the goal line...I don't think it matters what his feet are doing as long as he is not going out of bounds.

re: 218, you think wrong. you don't posess the ball until you have the ball while you have the appropriate appendage(s) on the ground. Shockey does not possess the ball in the NFL definition of the word until his feet get down.

Even my pee wee football team could avoid 9 false starts in one half.

re: 218 possession is: "When a player controls the ball throughout the act of clearly touching both feet, or any other part of his body other than his hand(s), to the ground inbounds."

As an aside, I'm surprised to find that the Official NFL reulebook isn't available on line in its totality.

The link is for the Rulebook "Digest" on NFL.com

So rather than knock the wind out of Shockey the LB should have grabbed him in mid-air and carried him out to the two and tackled him. BRILLIANT!!

For whoever was asking about why Alexander wasn't touching the ball:

10 runs for 24 yards. Long of 6.

Putnamp, you just jinxed the Giants D.

I also thought you had to have both feet inbounds. The radio announcers were rather confused here.
Where did he get the 2nd foot inbounds?

1-10-SEA 44 (6:41) S.Alexander right tackle to NYG 49 for 7 yards (K.Clancy).
2-3-NYG 49 (6:15) S.Alexander left end to NYG 45 for 4 yards (G.Wilson).
1-10-NYG 45 (5:43) M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete to B.Engram.
2-10-NYG 45 (5:37) S.Alexander up the middle to NYG 36 for 9 yards (W.Allen).
3-1-NYG 36 (5:08) S.Alexander left end to NYG 16 for 20 yards (G.Wilson).

Nevermind.

putnap, that was exactly what I was missing.

This is maybe the 4th time I've seen the Giants this year.

Eli is a very off QB. He throws too high, especially under pressure. That might explain his sort of weird numbers.

ALso, the Giants O-line can't seem to handle crowd noise at all. Everytime the crowd is noisy, they've false started.

and there it is again. Crowd gets louder, another false start.

#224,

Excellent! I'm a Seattle fan :)

Just got in from a wedding. Giants @ seahawks looks pretty good. Can anyone tell me how on earth the Ravens scored 29 points?

James

Cincy jumped out to a huge lead and then they just took it easy. It was sort of like the Eagles/Broncos game earlier this year.

Cincy jumps out to a large lead, sort of downshifts as they play, the other team gets a little close, they jump back into first again and race away with it.

Wow, I sure feel like an idiot for thinking that Matt Jones would be a great sleeper play instead of Joey Jur. Thankfully I should still be ok, but still. I don't think I'll ever doubt him again after this game.

"Seattle knows that a field goal will make it a two-score game."

Say what? This is basketball? Sorry, Dick, but even a TD keeps it a one-score game.

Ah, he's just now correcting himself.

Chris, thanks.
Huge moment in the Seahawks game. Seattle have 4th @ inches at the Giants 8 with 4:40 remaining. Holmgren is challenging the spot, but even if the challenge fails, I think Seattle should go for it.

And the Shaun Alexander "Show me the money" tour continues to roll.

I liked the call to go for it also.

I wasn't even thinking of possible TD on that play, just the first down. I also sort of forgot that Shaun Alexander has that same TD sense that Priest Holmes does where he'll plow through a brick wall if its between him and the end zone.

So far the team with the better record has won every game this week. Lets see if that trend holds

More false starts by the Giants. Ouch.

Of course another touchdown will soothe the pain of another false start any day.

Methinks Toomer's left foot dragged out of bounds before the right foot hit.

Isn't Seattle out of challenges?

What? Why do they call timeout at the two-minute mark?

Second challenge on a Giants TD today, second time when the TV guys don't have the footage of the vital issue.

Not gonna hold my breath for a reversal.

OK, the ref screwed up earlier.

Call was upheld anyway.

#242: Yeah, that too.

#241: From what I could tell, Toomer's left foot didn't move until the right foot came down. But also, I'm not sure it wasn't touching the end line by something like half and inch.

Inconclusive evidence, says I.

Seattle had already used their challenges.

and while the call was upheld, it cost them a time out.

Packers fumble for the third time today. Of course, it was Favre's fault...............

That was sarcasm. The kick returned fumbled. But considering how Favre is routinely trashed around here figured I would join the crowd........

Seattle only had used one challenge... the Shockey TD was at the end of the first half, initiated by the booth.

Giants made that two pointer look easy.

Ah, alright Ian, thanks.

and the Giants made that entire drive look easy.

oh, I don't know, I think it's probably all to do with David Akers. Philly's special teams have got a lot better, now he's back ;)
Oh, and isn't it weird to see the Eagles grinding the clock with the running game? I keep waiting for that inevitable crazy passing play...

I can feel the Spirit of Seahawks Past watching this game.

Extending his great power, he causes WRs to drop good passes, stupid penalties, and for defense to vanish when the game is on the line.

what a collossal screw-up on the part of the Seattle offense

Less than two minutes to go, 3 plays, -10 yards. Ouch.

NFC Central Freak:

I think we could tell. All your posts here have been sarcastic.

NFC...I am a big fan of the central too, but I think Farve has been merely average for several years now. He is not a bad QB, just a great QB who makes many many very bad mistakes which leaves him on average...well...average.

People get on him so much because a lot of people still act like he is the second coming of christ when there are at least 10 QBs who are for sure better than him IMO.

I thought the crew from the MIN/NYG game was very good and the MNF crew was pretty good last week, but boy did the MIN/CLE crew stink it up today (stuck in St. Paul watching MIN instead of a good team :()

Wow, it looks like the Giants will win. Pathetic.

So Oakland goes into Washington and wins, and then returns home and loses to Miami. Huh?

Yeah, Same Ole' Seahawks.

OK, no more Feeley for the Pro Bowl.

Feely shanks it! OT!

Seawaks played scared, offense was timid, defense got tired out. Game over.

Of course, then there is the kickers.... Oh my God.

Uh... hold that thought.

Wow. Seattle try to give the game away, and Jay Feeley gives it right back.

The Penguins suck, but atleast Primanti Brothers has multiple flat screen TV's and I got to see the Giants game as well as the Penguins attempt at hockey. And I got home in time to see Jay Feely miss his game winning field goal attempt. I bet Skip Bayless loves that.

I've also had about 6 beers which means my Sunday Night Football script will be extra bizarre tonight.

Woo.

Throw deep to Jurevicious!

No. Way.

I was going to write how the Giants dodged a bullet, as the Toomer pass had no business being caught and Seattle pretty much self-destructed at the wrong time, and now... this.

Wow. Just wow.

do either side actually want to win that game?

It's a battle in Philly right now: the officials are trying to give the game to Favre, and Favre is trying to give it to the Eagles.

Shouldn't Eli get credit for a come from behind win in the 4th Q and last two minutes?

Vinateri would have made it. Eli did everything any other QB could have done. We can't have QB stats determined by what other players do, can we?

What the hell just happened in Philly? Yahoo says that Hood intercepted Favre for a safety?!?

1-10-SEA 22 (14:55) S.Alexander left end to SEA 22 for no gain (K.Clancy).
2-10-SEA 22 (14:18) M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete to J.Jurevicius (W.Allen).

...

Hood INT in the endzone for a touchback. Two kneeldowns, game.

Hasselbeck had like, 3 seconds. He could have gotten rid of the ball. He just sort of curled up and let the sack come.

nfl.com credited that tackle of hood in the end zone as a safety for a moment there. is that what happened at lincoln financial before the correct ruling came through?

B:

Well then, everyone here should be happy as Favre throws an interception in the end zone.

Folks praise him so the "thoughtful" posters here trash him in response? That's how I interpret your second paragraph.

Which to me makes no sense.

i hate the prevent defense

Seahawks: "Here, you can have the game"

Giants: "No, that's quite alright! It's your home, I don't want to intrude..."

Seahawks: "It's quite alright! I insist!"

The only unit in this game that doesn't seem beyond reproach is the Giants defense. It's a miracle that with 442 yards the Giants are only tied at this point in the game.

It appears the Seahawks are playing Armageddon defense. I think the D-backs were about 40 yards downfield on that Burress catch.

Anyone else think that Shockey was down, and that the Giants got a break? instead of 3rd & 7 or 8, the y get a 1st & 10.

Good. I was about to say that that catch should have been reviewed. Shockey bobbled that all the way before his "fumble".

Actually, James, it looks like Shockey never had possession.

I always enjoy watching a Mike Holmgren coached football team collapse. Another supposed genius who somehow continues to get his *ss kissed by the Peter Kings of the world even though he hasn't won anything since the last century.

freak, just to be gracious, that kind of endzone interception are just part and parcel of what Favre has always been, for me; he seems genuinely convinced that he can make every throw, and sometimes he works his little miracle, sometimes not. better personnell around him and he would probably have won that. I think a lot of his bad press stems from preceptions of the diminished judgement he seemed to be showing last year, which, let's be honest, is completely understandable given the circumstances. I'd like to see him play another year or so, but the danger with him playing on is that he might end up thinking 'I'll just win one more Superbowl, then I'll retire', and that'd just get ugly...

At least it was overturned. Why did it take so long for them to decide to review it? Booth operator sleeping?

I think any QB who throws 6 INTs in a playoff game should realize it's time to call it quits as a starter. Favre has too much pride.

This sets the stage for another Feely shank. Come on Jay, I know we can count on you...

Jay Feely from 50+ yards in overtime.......

See? I knew we could count on good ol' Jay!

NO GOOD!

I don't remember the last time I saw a game between two teams trying so hard to lose it.

What price will you give me on the tie? Neither team wants to win this one.

And he did, as well! amazing! Wouldn't like to be his agent...

When will someone realize that on third down that the Seahawks more times then not turn to Bobby Engram?

Man, how huge was that false start on the Giants? (the one in OT - not one of the other twelve).

Wow gaem center hasn't said anything now for quite some time, did someone win?

NM the play was challenged.

tom:

Favre played poorly today as did the Packer defense. Letting the Eagles move the ball with MM at QB is pathetic. And if BF hits a couple of key passes the turnovers don't matter.

What I expect from this forum is THOUGHTFUL commentary. Instead what I read far too often is mere contrarian snippets. Favre plays ok or well and nary a whisper because hey, there's no chance to rip the guy. But he plays POORLY and everyone and their cousin has remarks on how if he did THIS or didn't do THAT then maybe THIS would have happened, blah, blah, blah.

If folks want to pretend to be OBJECTIVE writers then be consistent.

And these same folks deride the commentators of every game. So why feel the need to rebut their praise of Favre with equal or greater venom? What exactly is the point? They have already proven the Mike Patricks of the world are morons. Who needs to refute the claims of Rainman?? Yes, a car costs more than $100. Great. Can we move on?

Just bizarre behavior for supposedly rationale folks.