Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 14 Game Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion of action on the field before, during, and after Sunday's games. You can talk about who you think will win or lose before the games start and last-minute news on Sunday morning. Then during the games, discuss strange plays, great performances, and stupid announcers (of which there are plenty). After the day is done, we'll discuss the results of the week Sunday night and Monday before our weekly commentary articles appear.

Comments

301
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 7:55pm

DavidH (#251 )--

I heard that, and thought he misspoke. Most commentators say the Patriots are going to the playoffs, but many of them say that they won't deserve to. I understood Boomer to mean "I don't care" that anyone says they don't deserve it.

Either that, or he was just babbling. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

302
by admin :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 7:56pm

Re: 290. This will get totally lost here, but Jim Schwartz joked to me that his wife is a single parent during the season. But one of the reasons he really likes working for Jeff Fisher is that in the off-season, they work eight or nine hour days like normal people and he can go home and actually see his kids at night.

303
by Murr (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:00pm

I was born and raised an Eagles fan. From the beginning of my memory, through the mid-90's, I hated no team nearly as much as I hated the Cowboys.

But, I have to say -- Troy Aikman has made more intelligent and meaningful comments in the first half of this PHI/NYG game than I've heard from any other announcer all year. Combined.

Just his explanation of why it's not intentional grounding when Eli threw it out of the end zone earlier in the game raised my opinion of him immediately -- yeah, it's an pretty easy rule, but he explained it clearly, and did it *quickly* after a relevant play, without needing a replay to prove his point.

304
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:01pm

Looks like the Dolphins should be moved up to Bill Simmons's "bad but frisky" group.

305
by Todd S. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:04pm

#273 I doubt Clarett's talent. If he was so talented, how could he not even make a roster as a 3rd-round pick?

306
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:09pm

#305:

Probably because he was out of shape from being out of football for over a year. He had talent in college, that's certain.

307
by Justus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:10pm

The average salary for an assistant coach in the NFL is $260,000 a year with 15 coordinators making over $1,000,000 a year. I've worked comparable hours while getting paid substantially less. I'm not too impressed with claims of "my wife is a single parent during the season". The average American works 46-hours a week and 38% of Americans work more than 50 hours a week. All while getting paid well under a quarter million dollars a year.

308
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:17pm

I'm watching KC-DAL, and the KC players are consistently holding the ball in the wrong hand. Tony Gonzalez, Larry Johnson, etc.
When running down the sideline, you're supposed to move the ball to the outside hand. Gonzalez actually moved it to his inside hand, and Johnson never switched.
Working so far, though. KC takes the lead.

309
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:19pm

Shockey just kicked over the pylon. He should be fined.

310
by Jeremy Billones (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:20pm

Re: 307

Cite?

311
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:20pm

Wow. Burress didn't catch a fade. Nice coverage by Rod Hood. He's really impressed me the last few games.

312
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:21pm

Come on Cowboys.................

313
by Kaveman (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:22pm

Another Champ Bailey INT. Strange how although he's had a bad year as far as injury and being beaten deep quite a few times goes, he now has 8 INTs on the season (I think).

314
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:23pm

Brunell has been HORRIBLE and Washington has the lead anyway.

315
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:23pm

ALRIGHT MIAMI! MAN LOVE FOR NICK SABAN!

316
by Justus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:25pm

#310 - the coaches' salaries comes from the annual salary survey of the NFL Coaches Association. For instance, you can see the numbers mentioned in the article linked on my name; it is near the very end of the article. The average American work week numbers are easily googleable.

317
by admin :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:25pm

I don't think any assistant coaches are looking for sympathy. But 50 hours a week? Try 90-100 hours a week.

318
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:26pm

RE: 217

I agree entirely. No one works "18 hour days" for an entire week.
I've gone several nights getting only 3-4 hours of sleep, and then I inevitably crash. I haven't tried using exotic drugs, but still...

319
by stan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:28pm

Justus,

There are a whole bunch of people who works those hours who aren't paid squat whether in small colleges, GAs at major colleges or interns/quality control coaches in the NFL. They put in long hours for long years in the hope that they might get to be one of the chosen to make the kind of money you talk about. Most never do.

I've worked as a trial lawyer in a major corporate law firm and as a football coach. Coaches work harder, longer hours under more pressure for less money (on average). Of course, the rush can be awesome. And the agony of defeat even worse.

320
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:29pm

A ton of trick plays in the KC game.

321
by Patrick Bateman (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:34pm

Man, Tiki Barber is a beast. Did you see that catch n'run at the end of the 3rd quarter? Kid slipped past three defenders at least. THe Giants would be doomed without him...DOOOOOMED.
Tiki for MVP! :)

322
by bob (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:36pm

Antonio Brown 40 yards or so away from the end zone on a kickoff return slowed down and moved the ball from his right hand to his left hand. Why you ask? That would be to blow a kiss to the crowd.

323
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:38pm

#321:

He's playing against the Eagles.

324
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:38pm

Who gets married on Sunday? Twice in three weeks, friends of mine get married on Sunday, so twice in three weeks I see no football. It's unacceptable.

What was the deal with Cleveland, Chicago & Carolina, and how on earth are Miami leading the Chargers?

325
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:39pm

For all the talk of KC's aggressive attacking defense (the loudmouth announcers), they sure aren't blitzing much.

326
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:39pm

Important question: Who is Antonio Brown?

327
by Jeremy Billones (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:41pm

Re: 316

I see 40.6, unless you're only looking at mining.

328
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:42pm

I hate you Miami.

329
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:42pm

San Diego's defense has played poorly. So has Brees and the offense.
But how are they allowing a team with Gus Frerotte under center to move the ball on them?

330
by Todd S. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:42pm

#306 We'll agree to disagree, then. Clarett had...what?...9 good games in college? A lot of guys have done that without the talent to be NFL players. Clarett might have enough talent, but he hasn't done anything to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Coaches are willing to put up with some crap from a guy who is truly talented; this guy was a 3rd-round pick and didn't survive his first training camp. Color me unconvinced.

331
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:43pm

Aaaaaaaaargh, there was the weekly intercepted-throw-to-the-flat by Bledsoe, but Surtain dropped it.

332
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:43pm

RE: 238

That's BJ Askew, who hasn't done much since being drafted a few years ago in like the 4th round.

Dan Campbell knocked one up in to the air, and Surtain almost picked it.

333
by admin :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:44pm

Re: 324, the answer is "Jews." And Seventh-Day Adventists, I guess. I got married on a Sunday. In June. Far, far away from football season.

334
by Todd S. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:44pm

#329 I haven't seen any of the game, but Brees' stat line looks pretty good. Has he really played poorly?

335
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:44pm

Huge fumble for Ronnie Brown. SD has a chance.

336
by stan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:44pm

re: Larry Johnson

The knock on him in college was that he was Ron Dayne II, i.e. a big, fast back who lacked quick feet. He couldn't cut in the hole. Most coaches knew Dayne couldn't play in the NFL and Johnson looked like the same deal.

KC has a really good off. line. Every time I see him in the highlights, he just hits the hole and runs with power and speed. Has anyone seen him actually bounce a bad play outside or cutback to a seam that is 3 gaps back of the intended hole?

Is he really, really dependent on the line giving him a good hole or has he improved a great deal since he was drafted? I still haven't seen him show lateral quickness to bounce a bad play into a good one.

337
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:45pm

So instead of 7 pts for KC, now it's 7 pts for Dallas. That could be the unmade play of the game.

338
by Todd S. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:46pm

#336 From the little I've seen the last few weeks, his best asset is patience and reading his blocks. Obviously, he is running behind a very good line, but his numbers this year have been better than Holmes. Not sure how big of an endorsement that actually is, but...

339
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:48pm

Reggie Brown just made a great great to convert a key 3rd and 10

340
by PatsFan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:48pm

Why wasn't that a TD? When Brown's head hit the ground, the nose of the ball was clearly (to me) over the front edge of the goalline, hence a TD.

Not that I'm complaining, of course :)

341
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:48pm

Yay! Dallas!

342
by asg (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:50pm

Wow, the Redskins have played some truly cover-your-eyes bad football this season. Some good stuff too, but some real putridity in there as well.

343
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:51pm

Dallas is getting my hopes up. Miami, not so much.

344
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:51pm

I swear if Miami losses this game I will poop in Nick Sabans front yard.

345
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:51pm

Which games this year did Willie Roaf miss?

346
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:56pm

Aaron, neither of my friends are Jewish and being Brits, the NFL schedule doesn't figure highly in the wedding planning.

Having watched a Philly offensive series, I can only imagine how bad Detmer must be for McMahon to be playing. He was awful. 3 of 6 (I think) passes he threw should have been INTS, including the 35yd completion.

347
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:58pm

"When he hit the ground he fumbled, but it was because he hit the ground with his own force, and not a defensive player's force."

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter, so long as he was touched the ground can't cause a fumble....

348
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:58pm

Come on Miami. I'm counting on you.

349
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:59pm

SHELDON BROWN IS ALIVE

350
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:00pm

Cundiff with the pooch punt that rolls into the endzone. Giving the Chiefs the ball close to midfield if he missed was too risky.

351
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:01pm

Horrible throw by Eli picked off by Sheldon Brown. Burress and Shockey wind up next to one another and Manning overthrows them both.

352
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:01pm

Let's see if McMahon can do what McNabb can't and lead a game-winning drive late in the 4th quarter.

353
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:01pm

I love you, Miami. Love you so much.

354
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:02pm

The excitement is so deep inside of me I could plotz right now.

355
by Clod (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:03pm

I want to vomit.

356
by Justus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:04pm

#333 -- Plenty of Christian churches have Sunday weddings. Catholics, for instance, are fine with Sunday weddings. (At least according the US Conference of Catholic Bishops). Most Muslim weddings are on Sunday, too, I believe. And non-believers probably don't care much about the day of the week. Basically everyone has weddings on Sunday. It is usually cheaper to rent the church on Sunday.

357
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:06pm

Re #352. Harris, I guess the answer is No.

358
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:06pm

I. Hate. You. Dallas.

359
by NF (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:07pm

I think I'll get a David Akers jersey.

360
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:07pm

Call the onside kick, Andy. Be bold. Be meaty. Be Frank.

361
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:07pm

317-

If NFL coaches really do work 90-100 hours a week I think that might explain some of the flat out stupid things they do. Maybe I am gaining sympathy for their inability to manage the clock or understand when to go for 2.

Personally I doubt it. They might need to do it once in a while. Or maybe the coaches rotate?

But leaving that few hours a week to commute/eat/sleep/excrete/talk to your family (even if your do not see them)/and have some sort of free time where you can relax your brain is not something a person could do for 4 for 5 months.

It just isn't possible to do without running at a extremely couterproductive low level.

Just to be clear I think it is possible to make your body work this much, but you will be operating at such a low level most of the time that it should be clear to you and anyone around you that overall productivity would rise with some more rest.

What is more, from every shot I have seen of an NFL coach they rarely looked sleep deprived (staring into distance, blood shot/painful eyes, inability to concentrate, dark circles etc.), they usually seem pretty alert to me. Sleep deprevation also makes people extremely moody and impairs judgement.

Like I said before I would believe they regularly rack up 60-75 during the season, and that rarely they feel the need to go higher, but the human body has really clear limits regarding the need for sleep and recreation (although scientists are not super clear on why).

362
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:08pm

Man, this Dallas-KC game is entertaining.

363
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:10pm

Redskins, Seahawks, Dolphins win.

364
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:10pm

#356: Yes, though most Catholics do it on Saturday, because we have that awesome 3-hour gap in between the ceremony and the reception.

Speaking of reception, screw you, Dallas. Look at Miami! Come on, you don't want to look bad compared to Miami, do you? Do you?! Though Miami doesn't seem to be doing a very good job running down the clock. Then again, they're running with Williams, so I'm not surprised.

365
by PatsFan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:11pm

Re: #347

That's not true. "The ground can't cause a fumble" only means that if a ballcarrier is tackled by the defender, the ground can't cause a fumble because as soon as any part of the ballcarrier besides the hands or the feet hit the ground, the ballcarrier is down by contact.

However, if an untouched ballcarrier falls down and his impact with the ground knocks the ball loose, it absolutely is a fumble.

366
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:12pm

MICHAEL LEWIS IS ALIVE

367
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:12pm

HOT DAMN! I'm gettin' me a Michael Lewis jersey.

368
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:12pm

Wow. CBS just showed a graphic saying that Drew Bledsoe has 30 4th quarter game winning drives since 1993. That is second by 1 to Brett Favre.

369
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:12pm

Looks like the Eagles and Broncos will win as well.
Eagles have good field position.

370
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:12pm

Wow. Mannig picked again. Philly has the ball at their own 46 with 0:29 and a TO left

371
by Clod (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:13pm

Hey STL scored a TD and FG in less than a minute last week. SD could too right??!!???!!?

372
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:14pm

Let’s see if McMahon can do what McNabb can’t and lead a game-winning drive late in the 4th quarter. The answer would have been "Maybe" but with all the #%^ drops, probably not.

373
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:15pm

Actually, Eagles-Giants is going to OT.

374
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:15pm

#365: I know, I said that he was touched. The announcer was making a distinction between being touched and hitting the ground and being driven into the ground and fumbling. I don't think there is one.

375
by Jeffo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:16pm

As a Giant fan, let me just say......kill me....please

376
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:17pm

Wow thats a big first down!

377
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:18pm

McNabb was 54-18 from 2000 to 2004. I'm sure he led some game-winning 4th quarter drives. In fact, I've seen plenty of them.

378
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:18pm

YEAH!!!!!!!! BARBER!

379
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:19pm

Let's see if McMahon can do what McNabb can't and lead a game-winning drive in OT.

380
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:20pm

If KC stops Dallas here, I'm going to pee my pants with joy.

381
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:20pm

I don't believe for a sec it will happen though.

382
by Josh (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:21pm

i hate dallas, but for the good of the steelers, i must cheer for them. ugh.....go dallas

383
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:21pm

4th and 26, anyone?

384
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:21pm

Kevo, yeah? When? And why has he been so terrible recently?

385
by Ted (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:21pm

Drew Bledsoe has just tied Warren Moon for most 3,000 yard seasons in a career with 9.

386
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:21pm

Holy crap. 4th down and goal from the 5. Here's the game...

387
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:22pm

FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

388
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:22pm

Defensive Holding at the 1. Nail, meet coffin.

389
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:22pm

He played hurt the whole year. It's well-documented.

390
by Josh (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:23pm

wow, and witten drops it.......ahahaahaha and holding on KC!!!!! wow such drama

391
by TomC (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:23pm

What the hell was that defensive holding call in DAL/KC?

392
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:24pm

Looks like a fair call, though.

393
by TomC (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:24pm

Mark my words: Dallas scored too quick.

394
by JBC (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:25pm

This is a great day for Pittsburgh

395
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:25pm

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

396
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:25pm

..... aaargh.

Well, 22 seconds is enough time for KC to get a FG and go to overtime.

397
by Josh (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:25pm

wow. that was a great call there. play action and campbell had no one around him. great play calling on parcells' part

398
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:26pm

Wow. Mike McMahon is a freaking idiot.

399
by admin :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:26pm

The confusion in the KC-DAL call came because the holding was obvious but the player named was wrong. It was 56 D.Johnson, not Wesley.

400
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:26pm

I'm only kind of annoyed that Witten didn't get the game winner. Still thinking fantasy ball, through that. I'm a terrible football fan.

401
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:26pm

Wow, if you watch the replay, you see that ALL ELEVEN KC players were NOT in the endzone. ALL were on the green area, trying to stop the run.

402
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:27pm

Let's see some prevent defense, Dallas.

403
by DGL (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:27pm

Strahan gets the sack on 3/12. Now let's see if Eli can throw another pick...

404
by Sam B (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:28pm

Any Given Sunday: Does Steelers/Bears count as an upset? I'd selfishly really like to see Browns/Bengals as the (near) upset featured.

405
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:28pm

Yep. God is a Giants fan.

406
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:29pm

Dammit, I was hoping they would get that snap off before the booth called down.

407
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:30pm

I would also like to see Browns/Bengals, because I didn't see any of it and apparently Cleveland had 0 offence but still almost won.

408
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:30pm

I don't think there is enough evidence to overturn this.

I think he is touching out of bounds, but pretty damn hard to tell.

409
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:32pm

Is there any possible way to accurately call a horse-collar?

I swear I still haven't seen one called, and I was about to flip when Jevon Kearse almost got called for one just now.

410
by DGL (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:32pm

So why do they have a rule about the horsecollar tackle if they're never going to call it?

411
by Todd S. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:33pm

Big time pass by Green.

412
by NF (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:33pm

Philly should send their FG block ST unit out wearing Seattle uniforms.

413
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:33pm

That's what I'm wondering. It's nearly impossible to tell if the player is tugging the jersey or inside the pads.

414
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:33pm

Whew. Ruling stands.

HOLY CRAP! Dante Hall! 3 seconds left, and the Chiefs have the ball in FG range!!!

415
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:33pm

DALLAS! WHAT ARE YOU DOING!

416
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

BRIAN DAWKINS IS ALIVE

417
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

Huh. I guess it pays to be an atheist..

418
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

4th & 3 at the Eagles 38, and Manning is picked again.

419
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

HE MISSED IT!!!!!!!!!

419
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Tynes mises a 41-yd FG as time runs out.

421
by JBC (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

All that for nothing, KC

422
by TomC (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

Bad snap. Tough way to lose there.

423
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:34pm

Very well-designed play by KC. Perfect for that situation. Ugh. BUT HE MISSES!

Even though the browns lost, it is indeed a good day to be a steelers fan!

424
by asg (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:35pm

... and it's NO GOOD! Steelers fans rejoice!

425
by Josh (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:35pm

and there will be lynching in kansas city tomorrow

426
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:35pm

Let's see if . . . aw, forget it.

426
by NF (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:35pm

BRYAN DAWKINS is ALIVE!!!!!!!!!

428
by Todd S. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:35pm

I hate Dallas. But the silver lining is that it makes the FO pre-season predition for KC look a little better.

429
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:36pm

Wow.

On the replay it looks like the snap was bad, and the holder was still adjusting the ball as Tynes kicked it.

Huge opportunity blown by KC there. SD loses, and the Cowboys give them a kick to send it to overtime. This game and the Buffalo game are gonna be the ones that KC players are shaking their heads over at the end of the year.

430
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:36pm

Anyone think that Miami would still be in playoff contention after week 14? I thought they'd struggle to win 6 games all season. Now if the could just get an average QB...

431
by Ted (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:37pm

Wow, Eli Manning is so clutch. He always comes through when it counts. Not like his loser brother.

432
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:37pm

Sing it with me Steeler Fans..................

"Son," she said, "have I got a little story for you...
What you thought was your daddy was nothin' but a...
While you were sittin' home alone at age thirteen
your real daddy was dyin'. Sorry you didn't see him, but I'm glad we talked..."

Oh I, oh, I'm still alive
Hey, I, I, oh, I'm still alive
Hey I, oh, I'm still alive
Hey...oh...

Oh, she walks slowly, across a young man's room.
She said "I'm ready...for you..."
"I can't remember anything to this very day,
'cept the look, the look...
Oh, you know where, now I can't see, I just stare..."

I, I'm still alive
Hey I, but, I'm still alive
Hey I, boy, I'm still alive
Hey I, I, I, I'm still alive, yeah
Ooh yeah...yeah yeah yeah...oh...oh...

"Is something wrong?" she said
Well of course there is
"You're still alive," she said
Oh, and do I deserve to be?
Is that the question?
And if so...if so...who answers...who answers...?

I, oh, I'm still alive
Hey I, oh, I'm still alive
Hey I, but, I'm still alive
Yeah I, ooh, I'm still alive
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

433
by NF (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:37pm

Remember your training McMahon.

May the Rutgers be with you. Always.

434
by TomC (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:38pm

And looks like the Giants will get another shot. 1st and 20 is pretty much a drive-killer for Philly these days.

435
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:38pm

The Eagles now have their third-string Center in the lineup.

436
by MCS (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:39pm

I really hate the league policy regarding coaching attire. Parcells looks like he should be on a park bench serving bread to the pigeons.

437
by mike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:39pm

No one from the AFC with 7 losses is going to make the playoffs.

438
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:39pm

McMahon screws the pooch. Game.

439
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:40pm

Three picks for Manning in the final two minutes and OT and the Giants are still going to win. God is a rotten bastard.

440
by Sam B (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:41pm

Fnor,

The Browns certainly had 0 rushing offence. Passing was mediocre, but better than the Bengals who were really bailed out by running game (but that was stopped too in 2nd half), plus some last min Browns errors/refereeing errors. Happily for Browns fans, Frye looked full of potential, and only deserved to get picked twice (was actually picked once). Glad to hear the Steelers are rooting for the Browns these days!

441
by TomC (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:42pm

Two words Kevo: Jay Feely

442
by T. Diddy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:42pm

Will the Jay Feely Experience give us our first tie of the year?

443
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:42pm

Mike, I don't think for a second that Miami will go to the playoffs, I'm just pleasantly suprised that they've done as well as they have. It looked for all the world like 'Leinart Land' during the summer.

444
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:43pm

Alright, here come the Seattle highlights. Come on, Football Gods.

444
by foos (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:43pm

Not necessarily game. Feely.

446
by Josh (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:43pm

dont feel too bad yet. this is feely we are talking about

447
by Sam B (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:43pm

Big one this for Feeley.. I'm sure he'll do it.

Oh the 'ice the kicker' tactic is getting the usual commentry slagging off..

448
by Kevo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:44pm

Meh. Good game, Ryan Moats and the Eagles secondary.

449
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:44pm

Harris, god isn't a rotten bastard, Mike McMahon is a rotten bastard. He sucks. Hard.

450
by Independent George (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:44pm

GO JAY FEELY!!!

451
by Josh (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:45pm

feely. makes. kick. and in other news, pigs and cows fly, and hell hath frozen over

452
by Jeffo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:47pm

The good news: Giants win
The bad news (probably): They are slowly turning me into an alcoholic....

453
by JasonK (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:48pm

I love Andy Ried. The Eagles averaged 7.0 yards/carry, and he calls 32 passes to 25 runs.

The Giants have no hope in the playoffs unless Antonio Pierce gets better very soon. (He left with an ankle injury in the 1st quarter.)

454
by Kaveman (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:48pm

Good day for Broncos fans too. Win plus KC loss plus SD loss. Pity that the Redskins won, or it'd be a perfect day (no offense to Persons fans).

455
by NF (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:50pm

Well, that sucked.

"I'm going to enjoy watching you fail when the playoffs come, Mr. Manning."

456
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:53pm

Alcoholic? Pfft, I passed that stage weeks ago. If natural gas wasn't so expensive, I would have stuck my head in the oven by now. At least now I can enjoy the Calvalcade of Suck that is tonight's game.

457
by NF (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 9:59pm

What do you think the odds are of Dom Capers having a job next week?

Oh wait, the Texans would like to get the first pick in the draft.

What do you think the odds are of Dom Capers having a job a week after the season ends?

458
by Pat (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:07pm

Just as a point to note: the Dawkins interception in OT was a bad decision on his part. Cost his team 2 yards - he should've just dropped it.

Now, of course, most people would say "bleah, 2 yards" - but if everything else in the game had happened, just shifted down 2 yards, Feely would've missed that final field goal.

459
by Pat (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:08pm

And... whoops, my bad. He caught it behind the line of scrimmage. Silly me, mixing up sides of the field. Whoops.

460
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:09pm

#440: Yeah, something about the enemy of my enemy....

461
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:15pm

Fantasy horrors:

I'm about to lose a tiebreaker in the FO FF league I'm in.
Now I miss the playoffs, because only 4 teams make it.
Why? Drew Brees cost me with all of his attempts (we deduct points for attempts in our league), and Andre Johnson, Drew Bennett, and Randy Moss did nothing. Maybe if I had started Roy Williams over one of those clowns I'd have done OK.

462
by NFC Central Freak (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:24pm

And the Eagles mini-dynasty officially ends.

It will be interesting to see if Philly management can stave off the "Law of Competitive Balance" by which all teams are drawn to mediocrity. Eagles fans will assuage their angst on this season with long-winded discussions of injury, bad luck, and the impact of He That Shall Not Be Named.

The more important factors are the facts that the team got a year older, and the rest of the division is getting better.

Should make for an interesting off-season in Philly........

463
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:35pm

Brett Favre. Wouldn't it be cool if announcers talked like the smurfs in the sense that all normal words would be replaced with smurf, only smurf would be replaced with Brett Favre?

Look, it's Brett Favreing outside on the Brett Favre with Brett Favre piling up on the Brett Favre.

464
by Steve Sandvik (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:39pm

For all you guys who don't think you can be gone from home more or less for 6 months out of the year, and sleep in 2 and 3 hour blocks, while doing highly complex and technical work under demanding conditions, my two westpac's say otherwise. Get a clue. And I sure as hell wasn't making 250K in the navy.

(operating a nuclear power plant. Is that technical enough to compare to head coaching?)

465
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:48pm

Jamal Lewis supposedly sat out with a hand injury, but I'm betting it was a manufactured story stemming from the acrimony with Billick.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5027

http://www.longmontfyi.com/sports-story.asp?id=5085

466
by Stevis (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:51pm

Wow. That was a wonderful play by Davis to get that fumble...*that* wasn't random. (even if the aggregate tends to such.)

I'm sure the Lions will struggle to get 3 out of that.

467
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:53pm

This cold thing still boggles the mind. Are you telling me that these guys in the NFL, who have played football as long as they have, have never played a game in cold weather before?

I can understand if you're a dome team like the Colts and built for a speed game on AstroTurf (or field turf, or whatever) and have to go play a game in a blizzard.....but it's cold. Do we really need to go into details about preperation? YOU LIVE IN DETRIOT FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!! IT GETS COLD IN DETRIOT!

468
by Pat (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:53pm

NFCCF:

and the impact of He That Shall Not Be Named.

Owens had a definite impact this season, but he has zero negative impact next season, as he has absolutely no hit on next year's salary cap. He might even have a positive affect because the Eagles can still trade him.

The more important factors are the facts that the team got a year older,

Really? Look at the team. Most of the replacements for the older players on the team are already there. Yah, everyone on the team got a year older - but the Eagles, as a whole, are one of the younger teams in all of the NFL.

Their starting offensive line this last game? In years, 2/4/2/1/10. Defensive line? 7/1/1/3.

Add to this the fact that the Eagles are $23M under the salary cap next year with 51 players signed (assuming Owens gets traded/cut), and you've got your answer.

469
by tunesmith (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 10:56pm

Washington still has a chance to finish the game stronger than the other teams in the NFC East. Dallas has to play Carolina. Even before this week, I ran some scenarios over at beatpaths (click name) and got Washington being ranked ahead of the other NFC East teams at season's end.

470
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:04pm

Pat (#468 )--
Owens had a definite impact this season, but he has zero negative impact next season
Have to disagree.

It's true that Owens's antics have cost him big money that he will never make back as a free agent -- no one will trade even a bag of donuts to the Eagles, for a player they know will be available within a week.

But it's also true that the Eagles' harshness with Owens, will cost them as they try to sign free agents. Big-name people will want crazy up-front money, and will look hard at the fine print before they sign.

The Eagles probably should have held back from going after the signing bonus. That action will cost them.

471
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:06pm

Did Theismann just criticise Favre for making crazy throws?

472
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:07pm

Figures that Kevin Jones couldn't stand success.

473
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:10pm

I saw that play because Paul Maguire told me to look at it.

474
by Adam (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:11pm

Can someone please translate that 5 minute rambling by Joe Theisman where he was talking about the records of the Lions and the Packers and how it relates to the field position in tonights game?

475
by Catholic Samurai (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:12pm

RE #472:

You have to admit that he sold that armbar takedown that Woody pulled on him near the goal line pretty well.

476
by clem (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:12pm

it's official. Joe Theismann noticed that Matt Millen isn't a good GM. That makes William Clay Ford the certified dumbest organism in the universe.

477
by Montgomery Burns (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:16pm

464: Operating nuclear power plants are the most technical and rewarding jobs on the planet. Nothing can beat it. Right, Smithers?

478
by Smithers (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:16pm

Right, sir.

479
by Hank Scorpio (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:18pm

EVER SEE A GUY SAY GOODBYE TO HIS SHOES BEFORE!

480
by Murr (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:26pm

#470:

Unless you define "harshness" as "insisting that you stick to the terms of your contract", I must respectfully disagree.

The Eagles never asked that "He Who Must Not Be Named" take less money, or give back money, or anything like that. All they said was: "That was your contact. You signed it. It said 7 years, and you've put in 1 year. No re-deals, buddy."

And then HWMNBN decided to screw with the team for 8 months, trying to get traded or sign a new deal. Unless the Eagles go out of their way to sign another narcisstic, egomanical player whose mental state has no basis in reality, AND who decides to sign on with a new agent who has the worst reputation in the league in terms of fighting for unrealistic contract re-signings -- I think they're safe.

481
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:29pm

If only I had started Roy Williams...

I might have made the playoffs.

482
by Homer Simpson (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:40pm

Yes once.

483
by Ben (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:42pm

Re: TO and future FA signings

I live close enough to Philly to get all the Eagles sports shows. So I've seen plenty of people hosts, writers, and ex-players offer their opinion on the matter and the consensus among the ex-players(and they are NOT all ex Philly players) is that the situation makes management look good because, the first time TO acted up they could have suspended him and went after his bonus, instead they opted to try to work it out multiple times, about four judging by the letters they sent him. They said that it makes the organization attractive because it shows they are willing to work out problems rather than take harsh measures and go after money for the first infraction.

484
by Soupy McNabb (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:44pm

If only I hadnt thrown that ball right to Roy Williams

485
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:44pm

Samkon Gado----Not a great leaper apparently. But a good run nonetheless.

486
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:48pm

Murr (#480 )--
The Eagles never asked that “He Who Must Not Be Named� take less money, or give back money, or anything like that.

Until they went after his signing bonus last week. Remember?
NFL Insider Jay Glazer reported that the Eagles are seeking to get back Terrell Owens' signing bonus
Source linked; scroll down to "Eagles stay after T.O." sub-hed.

It may have been justified, but it's certainly harsh. They won their case before the arbitrator -- is the million or two they get back, really worth putting off other free agents?

487
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:48pm

RE: 256

The Houston stuff reminded me of New Orleans' miracle TD followed by a honked XP by Carney.

488
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:49pm

The funny thing about the Owens situation, to me, is that he refuses to play for a team that isn't going to win the superbowl, yet a team in position to win a superbowl would be too scared of him destroying the season at the first whiff of trouble to actually SIGN him. So it looks like a neverending cycle.

489
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/11/2005 - 11:54pm

RE: 260

Yeah, it was great. I was rooting for KC, but flipping back and forth between CBS and FOX was awesome. Rare good TV moment in NYC.

490
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:01am

I must be the only one watching the game tonight, huh? The announcers must read the comment threads here, because they brought up the possibility of the Lions fair catching a punt for a free kick attempt near the end of the first half.

491
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:03am

RE: 262

Yes, lawyers work very long hours, especially the ones right out of law school. My cousin is a lawyer and he would regularly get home at 2 AM.

RE: 313

Getting beat often is how he has all those INTs.

492
by TomC (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:04am

Did I just hear Mike Patrick complaining that the Lions didn't fair catch that punt and free kick off of it? There were 20 seconds left in the half you fool! Why would you give up the chance to get 20 yards closer before kicking?

Oh, because you're the Lions, and you'll throw a two yarder on third down and not get out of bounds. I take it back Mike, you're insightful and prescient.

493
by Pat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:05am

Until they went after his signing bonus last week. Remember?

Nonono - the point here is that the Eagles are merely holding Owens to his contract - nothing more, nothing less. The administration isn't being finicky about it, they're just going by the contract.

is the million or two they get back, really worth putting off other free agents?

Actually, they rescinded his signing bonus after he was in breach of contract for missing a mandatory passing camp back in August. They've just never bothered to collect on it until now.

Honestly, I don't see it as a problem for future free agents. It's just the Eagles saying "we plan on holding you to the letter of your contract." See, the thing is - it's not like other NFL teams don't have that right, too. They all do.

And somehow I doubt the Eagles will go after a player with a troubled past again. Which means the clauses they invoked versus Owens probably won't even be in someone else's contract.

494
by Pat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:06am

The announcers must read the comment threads here, because they brought up the possibility of the Lions fair catching a punt for a free kick attempt near the end of the first half.

No, but you might be the only person listening to the announcers. I can't - Joe Theismann has damaged my brain too much. It's doctor's orders, I tell you.

495
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:12am

RE: 333

Sundays in June are very popular for Jewish weddings, indeed.

RE: 334

Brees wasn't very good, yeah.

RE: 347

Yeah, I was confused about why that was ruled a fumble.

496
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:13am

Interesting note about weddings:

In Europe, Jewish weddings were almost always Friday morning.

497
by IzzionSona (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:16am

What, no Adam-script yet? ::bummed out::

498
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:17am

RE: 368

But since 1995, Plummer has the most.

499
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:20am

A lot of kickers can't kick off. It's amazing.
Hanson is terrible, Nugent is bad, Vanderjagt is awful, Raynor is bad, and on and on and on...

How the Jets burned a high 2nd on a guy who can't kick off is beyond me.

500
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:20am

Re 462:

The Eagles defense has been in flux since 2003. According to DVOA, it actually improved the season after Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent were let go as free agents. I thought 2005 would be the year the entire defense really gelled, but that has not happened. However, the rush defense does look improved, with the exception of the game against Denver and the game against Atlanta where Trotter was ejected. Trotter continues to be a force on run D, and there are two rookies involved with the D-line who look like they could do very well (DT Mike Patterson and DE Trent Cole). The WR situation is bad, but it is not that much worse than before TO joined the Eagles. At the very least, there is now some young blood at those positions that could help the Eagles future starters to be decided. The OL has a number of rookies and second-year players on it right now who are not performing badly. At running back, the situation is hard to make out because of how screwed up the running game is, but at least the Eagles have a rookie who can run for 100 yards against the Giants on a good day. Lamar Gordon is likely to be released at the end of the season, as the last Buckhalter replacement (Dorsey Levens) was. Buckhalter is another story entirely.

Hopefully Westbrook will be back to almost full ability next year. In 2006 he'll be 27 and not yet past the peak of his career.

One of the reasons that the Eagles are not likely to decline soon is that the Eagles are only 3 years removed from the 2002 NFL draft, from which the Eagles drafted Westbrook, Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown, and Michael Lewis. Brian Dawkins is the only DB who has been in the NFL for a while. 2006 will be his 11th season.

A promising sign is that it appears that the Eagles 2005 draft could be as good as the 2002 draft, with DT Mike Patterson and DE Trent Cole getting into the rotation at defensive line in their rookie year, Reggie Brown leading the NFC in yards by rookie wide receivers at the same time the Eagles have been losing a lot of elements of the passing offense, and Ryan Moats running for 114 yards in the first game he was given a big role in the offense. Todd Herremans is also doing well enough at left tackle that he may compete with Tra Thomas for the position next season when Thomas returns from injured reserve.

The 7th-round pick, Keyonta Marshall, is surprising for just being on the roster and being put in 1 game to play.

If you couldn't tell, I think the Eagles may have had a very good draft.

I think the biggest loss in the offseason was Derrick Burgess, who is one of the few solid members of the D-line there. I'm not sure, but I think the reason he may have been let to leave when his contract ran out is that the Eagles didn't want to match the amount of money the Raiders were willing to pay, like when LaMont Jordan left the Jets.

Next season, the Eagles get all their weapons on offense back. They may even be able to trade Owens for a WR. Even 50 cents on the dollar for him would be a worthwhile trade. The Eagles will have lots of cap room next year, and not paying Owens $2 million bonus will mean there will be more than planned. Buckhalter may even play a full season. With him, Ryan Moats, and Reggie Brown in the mix, as well as a healthy McNabb, the offense could potentially be better than it was in 2004.

On defense, I think a solid D-line will emerge in the offseason, and the secondary will have had 3 years together, so coordination should be excellent on pass defense.

Special teams were inexplicably awful this season until the kicker and punters went out and the became explainably awful. Whatever is wrong with the special teams, there is a good chance the special teams coach will be able to fix them and get them back to average at least in the off-season.

The Law of Competitive Balance is true because it is hard to hold on to really good players when the amount of money you can pay them is limited, and it is hard to keep on finding new talent to affordably replace the players you can no longer afford to keep. Even if you avoid those two problems, good players age or are worn down from injuries and can't play as well, and it is hard to predict when that will happen and prepare for it.

The Eagles situation is completely different from that of teams like the New York Jets, who saw a lot of injuries, but are not likely to bounce back because their cap could collapse and they will have to release some of their best defensive players. Also, Curtis Martin is close to retirement, and they have no clear replacement waiting in the wings. This is quite similar to how the Titans playoff run ended. The Titans, since playing New England in the 2003 divisional playoffs, lost their best defensive players in that offseason, and now their offense is falling apart due to age.

The Oakland Raiders are another team that quite visibly collapsed after losing the Super Bowl. Their starting center went nuts, their star wide receiver, Jerry Rice, finally started playing like his age, and Rich Gannon finally tired out, got injured, and can't cut it anywhere now. They also fired their head coach. As a result, a QB that was dumped by the NYG, to make way for Kurt Warner and Mannings younger brother, is now starting for them, their star WR is a head case from Minnesota, and their head coach is Norv Turner.

The Cowboys were a team that could still compete on both sides of the ball in the late '90s. Then Deion Sanders retired. In 1999, Michael Irvin suffered a career-ending injury. After 2001, Aikman retired after suffering too many concussions. And in 2002, Emmit Smith was worn down, and his only accomplishment was passing Payton's record. In 2003 he started on a different team, and by 2005 he had retired.

None of the problems of these teams seem likely to befall the Eagles, so I'm predicting that they definitely have another year of competing for the Lombardi, and it's likely that they'll still be good the year after that.

501
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:28am

Pat (#493 )--

I understand the legalities of it. And I even wrote the the Eagles were justified to go after the signing bonus.

But not every team does. The Browns could have gone after Winslow's signing bonus, and didn't. Players notice these things.

A lot of players sympathized with Owens, even aften the damning arbitrator's report. Going after the bonus seems like piling on.

You could be right, that it won't cost them anything. But it could cost them. They'll get their injured players back (except Buckhalter -- he'll be injured in training camp again ;-) ), but their wide receiver corps needs talent, not just Pinkston back.

I don't think any free agent wideouts will take a contender or goodwill discount to sign in Philly this off-season.

502
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:29am

RE: 430

Miami isn't in playoff contention.

What were all the Eagle D "HE'S ALIVE" lines about? What did I miss?

RE: 454

I thought Denver would end up with a top-10 pick from Washington. I guess not. Deadskins piling up meaningless wins to hurt Denver (and themselves).

RE: Eagles mini-dynasty ending

The Eagles dynasty hasn't ended. They have the core still there. Unfortunately, Dawkins is starting to get old, and Trotter isn't so young either. They still have McNabb, Reid, the front office, and some good young talent, though.

503
by South Jersey Mike (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:30am

TO has a rather large roster bonus coming his way if hes on the roster for next season. There's no way he'll ever collect it and there's no way anyone is going to trade for someone who is sure to be released.

504
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:33am

South Jersey Mike (#503 )--

Especially since he's on record that he wants more money. Why would you give up anything of value, to get T.O. at a pay rate you're going to have to renegotiate anyway?

Wait -- does Detroit have cap space? They need another wide receiver, right? :-P

505
by Kevo (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:36am

Whenever the Eagles got an interception, I just got excited about it. It was also a Wayne Fontes reference.

Here's an excerpt from Brian Murphy's old Water Cooler column:

My affection for the Lions runs back to the days when I covered the 49ers beat full-time and we were provided with conference calls from the opposing team's coach every Wednesday. Wayne Fontes, then the Lions coach, always provided a refreshing mixture of bluster and false promises, which set him apart from, say, Chuck Knox, who could bore the notebook right out of your hand. Anyway, Fontes' job security was on the ropes once; and in a spirited defense of his job status, he bellowed one of my all-time favorite phrases: "Wayne Fontes is alive!"

He had a sort-of Hawaiian accent, making it all the richer. Wayne Fontes is alive!

It's an all-purpose catch phrase. You can use it when you swipe a killer parking space in a crowded mall. Or when you find a golf ball you thought was lost in the rough. Or as you see fit.

506
by Hank Scorpio (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:36am

Mike Patrick: Samkon Gado is a tremendous story, this guy couldn't even get on teh field at Liberty....LIBERTY!

Joe Theisman: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah BRETT FAVRE Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah BRETT FAVRE Blah Blah Blah Blah When I was a player BRETT FAVRE Blah Blah Blah Notre Dame.

Paul Maguire: Man let me tell you something, if you couldn't get on the field at Liberty what are you doing in the NFL? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

Joe Theisman: I think whats happening here with the Green Bay Packers is they are at a turning point in their orginization, and that turning point stems from the fact that Brett Favre really isn't what he once used to be. He still has that gunslinger mentality but he just seems to be shooting blanks at times. If the Green Bay Packers want to get back to where they were 5-10 years ago they need to get Aaron Rodgers onto the field and let him grow while Brett Favre is still here. Because as long as Brett Favre is here the Green Bay Packers have a shot to win and you just can't throw Aaron Rodgers to the wolves, or in this case tonight, the Lions.

Mike Patrick: What a tremendous point.

Paul Maguire: I just don't understand how you can even THINK about putting a guy like Brett Favre on the bench for an unproven, untested kid like Aaron Rodgers. That just makes absolutely no sense to me. None. You're crazy.

Joe Theisman: But Paul, you have to realize that the Packers need to find out what they have in this young man and when the team only has 2 wins in the middle of December, what do you have to lose?

Paul Maguire: A LOT MORE FOOTBALL GAMES! THATS WHAT!

Mike Patrick: Samkon Gado lines up behind fullback William Henderson, Gado gets the ball and BULLS his way FORWARD for a gain of 4. I can't say this enough, he couldn't get on the field.......AT LIBERTY!

Joe Theisman: This is such a great story. I had a chance to sit down and have lunch this week with Former Green Bay Packers General Manager Ron Wolf and what he told me was that he didn't understand why the Green Bay Packers brought this guy in.

Mike Patrick: You know when you can't get on the field at Liberty thats going to follow you around and haunt you and you've got to be able to beat that label.

Paul Maguire: Well watch this run right here. He's got a couple yards, he thinks he's got more right here and he kicks it up a notch and starts to put his head down for more and then all of a sudden.....POW. He just runs right into a wall. Pow. He's going nowhere.

Joe Theisman: When I was playing for the Washington Redskins back in 1983 we had a very interesting team, it sort of reminds me of this years Packers team only we only lost 2 games instead of only winning 2. And we had a running back on that team named Reggie Evans, and while he may not have had the most talent...he played hard. He played hard a lot like Samkon Gado does.

Paul Maguire: Was that the year you played with Charlie Brown.

Joe Theisman: Yes it was. Charlie Brown was one of my favorite players to throw to because he knew what he had to do. He had to get open, catch the football, and just simply make plays. I knew that if I wanted to win I had to get the football to Charlie Brown.

Mike Patrick: Just make sure Lucy didn't get a hold of him first.

Paul Maguire: HA-HA-HA-HA-HA.

Joe Theisman: You may laugh but I recently had lunch with Lions interim head coach Dick Jauron this week and he told me that the key to his offense is his wide recievers, the key to my offense was Charlie Brown.

Paul Maguire: You're nuts.

Mike Patrick: Lets check in with Suzy Kolber for more on Samkon Gado.

Suzy Kolber: Thanks Mike, when I asked Samkon Gado what the BEST thing about being in the NFL is he told me it's getting a chance to play football with Brett Favre, and for those of you that don't know Brett Favre has the LONGEST streak in the NFL in terms of consecutive starts, truely a testament to his durability and exceptional talent. When you think of Passion, and energy, and toughness you just HAVE to think of Brett Favre. Mike......back to you.

Mike Patrick: THANKS SUZY! What a story that Brett Favre is.

Paul Maguire: Watch this here, this is Samkon Gado running tonight. He ducks in, he ducks out, and his feet are always moving. Just watch him right here. He can just see the entire field all the time and if you watch his legs and his feet right here you can clearly see that. If you don't think that THIS kid has power, speed, vision, and toughness than you are absolutely NUTS! YOU'RE CRAZY!

Joe Theisman: I think the Packers need to start getting away from Samkon Gado and start putting the football right back into Brett Favres hands, he's the one thats going to win this game for htem. You're already down 3 in the 3rd quarter and if the Green Bay Packers REALLY want to win this football game they need to start letting Brett Favre make some plays.

Paul Maguire: Joseph, have you actually WATCHED Samkon Gado tonight? Or in any game? At all? ARE YOU NUTS?!?!? YOU'RE CRAZY!

Joe Theisman: I don't know Paul. They need to start letting Favre throw to Donald Driver and Robert Ferguson some more, because as long as JAvon Walker is out, they don't have a passing game so you have to start running it to Samkon Gado more if you REALLY want to win this football game right now.

Mike Patrick: Did we mention that he couldn't get on the field AT LIBERTY?!?!?!?!

Joe Theisman: But he COULD get on the field in Green Bay.

Paul Maguire: Thats because he can see the whole field with his feet and his legs.

Joe Theisman: Now thats just silly.

Paul Maguire: You're nuts.

Joe Theisman: Paul, they can't hear you.

Paul Maguire: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I know.

507
by South Jersey Mike (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:39am

I think he plays in Dallas next year.

508
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:40am

I guess I forgot to change my name back from Hank Scorpio......

509
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:43am

BJ Sander is terrible. Not sure why GB brought him back.

510
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:47am

502:

Sheldon Brown, Michael Lewis, and Brian Dawkins picked off Elisha Manning, in order int he 4th quarter and overtime.

503:

If there is only one team interested in signing Owens, then they will wait for Philly to release him rather than trade for him. However, if more than one team wants to sign him, they will try to trade for him so they don't have to compete with other teams offers to him when he becomes a free agent. The opportunity to trade Owens is best if three or more teams are actually interested in having him on the team. Also, the amount of money that he would be due for his bonus is probably comparable to the amount of money he might get in signing bonus in a new contract, given his history at this point. The difference is that it is not prorated.

511
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:48am

RE: 486

They went after his bonus after his breach of contract. They never did anything while he abided by the contract.

512
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:50am

RE: 490

The announcers in the KC-Dallas game also brought up that possibility.

513
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:52am

RE #509
He cost the Packers two draft picks. After years of Josh Bidwell booting it 30 yards when they needed 50 and 60 yards into the endzone when they needed 30 to pin the opponent deep frustration sets in. At least Sander is consistently crappy.

514
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:52am

There are football fans all over the web every Sunday night bashing the Three Stooges, and ESPN still hasn't figured out that everyone hates these idiots. What does that say about the monkeys running ESPN's TV side?

515
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:54am

They didn't consider the draft picks when they released him, though. Sander might be the worst punter in the NFL who has hung onto his job all season.

516
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:59am

Joe Theisman: I don’t know Paul. They need to start letting Favre throw to Donald Driver and Robert Ferguson some more, because as long as JAvon Walker is out, they don’t have a passing game so you have to start running it to Samkon Gado more if you REALLY want to win this football game right now.

That one-upped the Joe Theismann of previous parodies.

517
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:05am

1. This game rules.

2. As cliche as it is, I simply must get to Lambeu Field. These two teams blow and that stadium is rocking like it's the NFC Championship game. And not an empty seat in the house.

3. "WHAT A HORRIBLE CALL!"

4. Did anyone hear Paul Maguire talking about Artose Pinners run? It sounded like he literally gummed up the works in the booth based on the fact he got stuffed.

518
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:07am

He was down in the endzone, I think.

519
by Stevis (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:10am

Did MP just suggest that Gado made a smart play by rolling the ball out for grabs, rather than take the safety? He said it couldn't hurt. How about a fumble recovery for a TD?

Admittedly, you could have given it to the Lions offense on the 1 and be fine.

520
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:10am

Paul Maguire rules.

"We get everything on Sunday Night Football, how often do you see two penalties in the endzone for safeties?"

521
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:11am

The holding call makes the following moot, but is it really intentional grounding if the running back is out of the pocket, got the ball to the line of scrimmage, and there was even a receiver in the area?

522
by PatsFan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:12am

Re: #502

Yes, Miami is still alive (barely). To get in, they have to win out and the Pats have to lose all their remaining games. If that happens, NE will be 8-8 and MIA will be 9-7 and take the division. But if both teams tie, NE will hold the division record tiebreaker (no matter what) and since NE has beating MIA once already, can do no worse than splitting head-to-head with MIA.

523
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:13am

The sad thing is these three guys really believe that was the proper play by Samkon Gado.

AND WOW! WHAT A BREAK THAT IS!

I was actually hoping that mini conference by the refs would go on longer so I could hear these guys talk more.........

524
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:14am

If you're a team that can't keep it together, with a bad OL, when you are at your own 1 yard-line, punt the damn ball.

525
by Stevis (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:15am

Jeez. Challenge that he *was* down in the endzone, at least...not to mention the holding seemed accross the plane of the goal line....

526
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:15am

RE #519
I think the "rolling the ball out for grabs" would have been an incomplete pass.

Wow. Did Mike Sherman just correct the official during the game? That call just seems so wrong, and I'm a Packer fan. How can there be no challenge and the holding was in the endzone. That has to be a safety.

527
by Tarrant (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:16am

OK, I'll grant the whole intentional grounding thing. But saying that hold didn't happen in the end zone?

528
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:18am

Wow, Lions just got screwed.

529
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:18am

Did they just try the same trick play twice in one drive?

530
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:20am

Never mind, Gamecenter is on the blink.

531
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:24am

Can you imagine if Brett Favre leads a last minute game winning drive?

532
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:25am

Great (real) qoute just now from Paul Maguire:

"Theres only ONE (emphasis on ONE) in the NFL that I don't want to give the football back to with 2 minutes left in a tie game.......and thats Brett FAvre."

Tom Brady?
Peyton Manning?

No?

533
by Kevo (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:25am

I can imagine him throwing an interception. That could be just me.

534
by Oldcat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:28am

Gamecenter has this as the Samkon Gado show. Every pass, sack or whatever is credited to him, at least for a while

535
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:33am

Two timeouts, 1 minute remaining, in a tie game. Not worht trying because of lack of time? Even with no timeouts I'd say it's worth a shot....although it is the Lions.

536
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:35am

So let me get this straight, the Lions should just run the clock out with over a minute and 2 timeouts, but leaving 25 seconds for the Packers with 3 timeouts and same distance to go is a huge mistake?

537
by Oldcat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:37am

But the Packers have Fav-ray!

538
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:38am

FREE FOOTBALL!

If the Lions had returned that for a TD i'd have pooped in my hat.

539
by Stevis (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:39am

No coin? Rock-Paper-Scissors!

540
by Towwb (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:42am

Please tell me someone Tivo'd that. It needs to be posted online.

541
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:42am

So many bad decision today. Jacksonville screwed up the end of the first half royally, and that cost them the game.
Now, the Lions get the ball with a minute left, and they run out the clock! Huh?

542
by mike (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:43am

Re: 532 I love the fact that just prior to the comment about who he would want with 2 minutes left, they talked about how in the past 8 games(he thinks) the packers have gone down to the wire. Yet, they are 2-10, so he's obviously not too good at it this season.

543
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:46am

RE: 522

I don't call that alive for the playoffs. They have to have a miracle happen. San Diego, Minnesota, and Kansas City are still alive. Not Miami.
I guess if you define "still alive" literally.

Adam:

You seem to be fascinated with pooping in various places. :P

544
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:47am

I'd say Jacksonville lost the game because they absolutely got dominated for three quarters, and a late rally to make it look close doesn't change that. Allowing a cheap FG at the end of the half, while really dumb, was far from what cost them the game.

545
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:47am

Am I the only one rooting for a tie?

546
by Oldcat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:50am

I think I'm rooting for a meteor to hit the stadium...

547
by Noble (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:50am

I'm chiming in a little bit late but: THANK YOU JAYSUS! The Bears lost against a quality opponent. Orton was pedestrian. Does this prove that Grossman is better than Orton? Well... no. But it does prove that the Bears sure as hell aren't riding on the offense's coattails. :) Now I just have to resist the temptation to pour salt in a certain Bears fan's wounds.

548
by Jon T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:53am

RE #547
If someone is a Bear's fan, they deserve "asalting".

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

549
by Oldcat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:55am

Theismann at the end of the game: "Whoever ends up coaching the Detroit Lions next year is going to have one heck of a football team!"

Say what?

550
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:56am

what happened with the coin?

551
by Oldcat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 1:59am

OT coin flip, Ref cant find coin. Asked the other refs, the players, ran to the sideline and asked the ball boys, finally got one from GB's head coach.

552
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 2:04am

Did you know that Detroit lost 24 consecutive road games between 2001 and 2003?

553
by Oldcat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 2:05am

The way they played today, its not all that surprising.

554
by Fnor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 2:09am

#551: Fixed coin! Controversy! Play the game over again!

(hehe)

555
by Oldcat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 2:14am

If the GB coach has a 2 headed coin on the chance the Refs won't have one, he deserves to be coach of the year

556
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 2:41am

RE: 544

They also cost themselves points, though.
Given how close the game ended up, they could have won had they played it better.

557
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 2:42am

RE: 552

Yes. It was a pretty big thing at the time.

558
by Kal (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 3:01am

My god, that was an atrociously bad game. Seriously, the Lions are the worst-coached team in the NFL by such a huge margin it's not funny. Yeah, the Texans and 49ers don't have the talent. Yeah, the Jets are screwed at QB. But the Lions...just continue to find ways to play like they don't give a damn, and the coaches make some of the most insane playcall decisions known to man.

Quick question - if Harrington is going to be traded, and I hope he is - who might want him?

559
by jebmak (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 3:02am

The Dolphins have to play the Jets and Ten at home, those are both winnable. The Pats have to play Tampa at home which is losable and @ Jets on MNF which NE probably wins, but the Fins are definately alive.

560
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 3:20am

#558:

The Dolphins. They've already started his college backup.

For the hell of it:

DREW BLEDSOE IS ALIVE!

561
by Pat (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 3:49am

TO has a rather large roster bonus coming his way if hes on the roster for next season.

There's three days between when he's eligible to be traded and when they have to pay the roster bonus. He'll be traded between then.

As for no one trading for him when he's sure to be released, I think someone would give away a high round draft pick to negotiate with him a few days early. Besides, if the negotiation doesn't work out, it doesn't cost you anything anyway.

562
by Michael David Smith :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 8:09am

So, Dre Bly, the Lions are now 1-4 with Garcia at quarterback. Still think Joey Harrington is the only problem on this team?

563
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 8:35am

Obviously Harrington is somehow affecting Garcia's play... and that of the receivers... and Shaun Rogers (Harrington told him to "send a message" when he drove that guy out of bounds)... and the refs.

OTOH, this probably takes the Packers out of the Reggie Bush game.

564
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 9:10am

I don't think the Eagles will be able to trade HWMNBN for anything of substance.

565
by Michael David Smith :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 10:11am

If the Packers pick up another win and this game ends up putting the Lions in front of them in the draft, they might be kicking themselves. Of course, if Millen is still calling the shots, it's not like the Lions are going to draft anyone worth having.

566
by zlionsfan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:59am

I quit watching after the b---s--- in the end zone. I guess it wouldn't have been so bad if the Lions could get their own TDs. I wish they had a scrambling QB so that they could run a rollout inside the 5 ... here's hoping the next coach brings in a new set of assistants, although I'd tolerate Jauron as DC if he wanted to stay.

That's the great thing about being a Lions fan now - you know they can't win (which I tried to explain to one of my friends, who is a Packer fan - of course, she didn't understand), but they can't draft very well either, so it doesn't help them to lose. I can't wait to watch the Cincinnati and Pittsburgh games. And their Christmas present to me will be a loss to New Orleans. Joy.

567
by DGL (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 12:20pm

Honestly, if it's any consolation to MDS and zlionsfan, I think that the Lions got robbed last night (regardless of how poorly they may have played). While Holmgren lobbying the refs that Gado's anti-Kenny-Stabler impersonation was a legal forward pass and not intentional grounding was inspired, the holding penalty was inside the end zone and should have resulted in a safety.

568
by Andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 5:32pm

NF #500:

The Eagles let Derrick Burgess go because of his injury history, not because they didn't want to match the Raiders offersheet.

Drafted in 2001 with the 3rd round pick, he played in 6 games in 2001 (32 tackles, 6 sacks), 1 game in 2002 (placed on injured reserve), 0 games in 2003 (placed on injured reserve), 12 games in 2004 (24 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 4 games lost to injury again). In the 2001 playoffs he had 3 tackles and 1 sack in 3 games. In the 2004 playoffs he had 10 tackles and 3 sacks in 3 games, easily the best performance of his entire career to that point.

After playing just 35 games in 4 years, while the Eagles as a whole played in 74 games in that stretch, the Eagles felt it was time to move on, rather than tying themselves down to a guy who just kept getting injured.

If Burgess plays for the Raiders for 4 or 5 years at the level he played this year, he will be a bargain at $17.5 million for 5 years. If he gets injured for entire seasons again, he won't.

569
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 7:46pm

Kevin Jones out for next week's game. He couldn't stand success. He actually had a few nice runs against GB, so he injured himself. :P

570
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 10:43pm

Brooks Vs. Vick.

Should be fun.

571
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:22pm

HELLOOOOOOOOOO OUT THERE!

572
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:36pm

Sorry. I decided I was going to run out and grab food the first time I heard that Vick and Brooks were cousins. It didn't last past the intro.

I should be done eating soon, and able to comment with actual substance. Just wanted to let you know, someone else is actually watching this saweeeeet game.

573
by kleph (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:36pm

shhhhh! we're hunting wabbits.

574
by Dan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:40pm

That was the smartest thing that Madden has said in a while, regarding the toss-left called for antoine smith after they had been successful going up the middle every time.

Why do the Saints keep calling passing plays on early downs? Isn't it obvious that Brook is going to struggle to complete a meaningful pass all night long?

575
by Dan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:43pm

The Saints got lucky on that drive with a couple of dumb penalties committed by the Falcons and they couldn't score a touchdown against a team that can't stop the run up the middle. The Saints suck.

576
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:45pm

Wow, that was a pretty impressive throw by Brooks rolling left. That's such a hard way to throw it, but he got good zip on it and was pretty accurate without breaking stride. It's plays like that, I think, that give fans and management hope that he'll be a good QB, because not many people can escape a free blitzer and throw it on the move like that.

Of course, it was bobbled and incomplete, and would've been short of the first anyway, which pretty well captures the last five years or so of Saints football. Flashes of excellence which amount to absolutely nothing.

577
by Dan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:53pm

"and would’ve been short of the first anyway"

What the heck is with the Saints play calling? Remember during the summer all that talk about "establishing the run"?

578
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:54pm

Nice run by Vick. I would've liked to have seen them give him a run/pass option on it, though. I just think it's so much tougher on the defense if he has the option to hit someone at 20-some yards if they come up to guard him. Of course, getting 10+ is something they'll take any time, so what do I know?

And right on cue, Vick doesn't set himself right after a pump fake and overthrows a dumpoff pass. Sweet.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a fumble. He clearly wasn't passing it, he was bringing his arm forward to try to avoid the lineman being shoved into his face. Great play by Smith, but a quick whistle costs NO plenty of field position (great ST play to down the punt on the 2).

579
by Dan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/12/2005 - 11:59pm

Another unsuccessful pass on first down, another third and long, another three and out for the Saints.

580
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:03am

The Fresh Prince is having one heck of a game so far.

Were they just talking about the Saint playing in Baton Rouge again next year? Didn't they see the game a few weeks ago where about 3500 people showed up? I don't know where they will play, but after that I seriously doubt it'd be Baton Rouge.

581
by putnamp (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:05am

Does it bother anyone else every time they hear an announcer call it "New Or-lee-unz"? You mean to tell me that after all of the hurricane coverage, and months of the press using the Saints as a free meal-ticket for "feel good" stories, you haven't figured out YET how to pronounce the city's name?

582
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:05am

That sweet Falcons run D is making Smith look incredible when the Saints remember to run him up the middle. Of course, since Smith was clearly the best RB in the league in 01 and 03, it shouldn't be that surprising to see him do well.

583
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:09am

Two comments:

1. The failed toss sweep was to Stecker, not to the legendary Antowain Smith.

2. I thought the home-away-from-home city mentioned by Al Michaels was Metairie, LA.

584
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:10am

Mexico hit the safety perfectly in stride. I'm not sure what he was trying to do there - the underneath coverage was tight, and there was a safety close behind. A perfect throw would've been required, and even then it would've gotten the receiver lit up. It should've been picked, if the safety could catch.

585
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:13am

Metarie is their training facility, I think. He was listing a few places they could play, and threw out San Antonio and Baton Rouge as options.

Heck of a catch by Finneran, even if it wasn't in bounds. I'm guessing they didn't put any replays up on the big screen until after the next play, when it was too late to challenge.

586
by DGL (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:18am

Wasn't there just a discussion here recently that the goal line extends past the sidelines? The ball crossed the plane well before Vick's body came down. This should be reversed.

587
by DGL (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:21am

And actually a good explanation of the rules by the MNF crew.

588
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:30am

Wow. What a horrible throw by Brooks. It's crazy - he could've run for the first down easily, but hesitated to try to make something happen downfield, then just made a bad throw.

What a terribly stupid penalty to take back a TD. Here's a hint, moron - when you jump past a teammate who's pulling up, and hit the QB with a Tito Santana style flying forearm, it's gonna be called. Idiot.

589
by Andrew (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:30am

WTF?

How does Vick get pushed out of bounds short of the goal line, yet get credited with a touchdown for having has hand pass over the pylon (which sits out of bounds on the goal line)?

Nothing of Vick or the ball ever went in any part of the endzone as defined by the goal line and sidelines.

With the explanation given, why doesn't every runnner who leaps for the end zone on a run up the middle get credited with a touchdown for his head breaking the plane of the goal, even if the ball never makes it in the endzone? Why isn't that just as good as Vick's hand supposedly passing over the pylon as he is flying out of bounds?

590
by admin :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:30am

Wow. Brooks just got away with one of the worst QB decisions I have EVER seen. First of all, what the hell are the Saints doing passing on third-and-1? Second, Brooks rolls left and avoids the rush, and the Falcons are all on the other side of the sticks. He could take the ball, stuff it under his shirt, flip around into a handstand, and walk on his hands across the stupid computer yellow line without anyone touching him for an easy first down. But no, he has to throw the ball, and not just throw it, but throw it DIRECTLY into the chest of an Atlanta Falcons defender. UN-FRICKIN-BELIEVEABLE.

591
by Justus (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:37am

The Saints are really bad.

592
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:38am

Wow. If that wasn't the luckiest play you'll ever see... What a horrible throw, but the Saints defenders took each other out of the play and left the receiver with an easy catch. That, folks, is why the Saints suck.

593
by DGL (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:39am

Did the Falcons tip off the MNF crew that they were likely to run that play? Because the highlight from last week, where they ran the same action but Dunn faked the toss to Vick and ran off tackle, was queued up awfully fast.

594
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:40am

I love Madden's explanation, that Vick just had to toss it up into (actual) double coverage. No, he didn't. It was a terrible decision, not a particularly great throw, but thanks to some Keystone Cop quality DB play, it becomes a highlight reel TD.

595
by TWD (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:42am

Andrew,

That's the thing; the goal line extends past the sidelines. The ball doesn't have to cross the goal line in bounds for it to be a touchdown, it just has to cross the goal line, period.

Same type of play happened last year in the Eagles/Falcons playoff game. It was an Eagle TD, I think.

596
by T. Diddy (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:43am

#593: Sounded like Madden said he saw them run the play in practice, and the WR was wide open then. So, short answer, yes.

597
by joe football (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:43am

From what I recall, during the Steelers/Colts MNF game, Madden had mentioned that Cowher had told him they were going to try an onsides kick at some point. Apparently coaches tell announcers, or at least Madden, bits of the gameplan.

598
by admin :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:44am

Hey, dumbass. When you are in field goal range, DON'T RUN BACKWARDS 10 YARDS.

599
by joe football (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:46am

Have no problem with Vick tossing that up. He was about to get crushed, and an INT at the 5 isn't likely to be tons worse outcome then the eventual punt. I'd be more worried about a fumble after he got hit then an INT way down field.

600
by calig23 (not verified) :: Tue, 12/13/2005 - 12:49am

Whose idea was it to put the Saints on Monday Night football?

Seriously, this is one of the great mysteries of football. Like: Who came up with Tampa Bay's original uniforms? and Why does Matt Millen have a job?