Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 16 Game Discussion II

This thread is for discussion of action on the field before, during, and after Sunday and Monday's games. You can talk about who you think will win or lose before the games start and last-minute news on Sunday morning. Then during the games, discuss strange plays, great performances, and stupid announcers (of which there are plenty).

Discussion of Saturday's games is in a separate thread here.

Comments

1
by charles (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 2:56pm

I think the packers are getting too many points against the bears, (-7). The bears have only scored five offensive td's in the last five games. The biggest margin of victory this year on the road was six points and that game went into overtime. They beat the saints by only 3 points.

2
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 3:03pm

I'm so blanking bored. No football. All I get is two late games, and they aren't even very good games.
I feel lost without football on Sunday. I wonder what I do the rest of the year on Sunday...

3
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 3:04pm

RE: 1

Yeah, I like Green Bay getting the points there. Chicago will probably win, but it won't be a blowout (IMO).

4
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 4:06pm

I like chicago with the points, because of Rex Grossman. And no Gado. I think this will be over by halftime.

5
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 4:07pm

err that's despite the points.

6
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 5:25pm

Yeah, that's something I didn't take into account. Noah Herron at RB. I wish they'd start Tony Fisher, so he would stop accruing penalties for my Loser League team...

7
by admin :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 6:35pm

For those of you watching, the FOX color commentator just suggested that Rex Grossman is an awesome leader because he was able to lead the Bears to 10 wins despite not actually playing. He took a "leadership role" in the locker room.

I'm not making this up.

8
by Chris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 6:46pm

After seeing Kyle Boller dismantle the Packers, I think the point spread might not be so bad.

9
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 6:49pm

I'm not sure if this is right, since I'm using ESPN tiebrakers, but does a Baltimore win give Carolina a spot in the playoffs? If that happens:

If Dallas or Washington loses next week, Carolina has one of the six best records whatever happens.

If Dallas and Washington win and New York wins and Carolina loses, Washington elimintates Dallas from the Wild Card based on the sweep.

If Dallas and Washington win and New York and Carolina lose, Washington takes the division on head-to-head and New York eliminates Dallas on division record in the wild card.

10
by Darrel (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:10pm

O/U on Favre picks? 3.5?

11
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:14pm

Aaron: Yeah, it's pathetic how quickly everyone jumps ship.

Personally, I'm hoping that Grossman lays an egg, because after watching all the CHI games this year, I really do think that Orton has great potential, and Grossman is just an overrated/fragile semi-rookie.

12
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:14pm

RE: 10

Sounds like a good over/under to me. I'd probably lean towards the over.

13
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:15pm

RE: 11

I definitely don't agree. Orton might develop into a good QB, but he's been really horrible, showing only occasional flashes of decency. Grossman is a good player, in my mind. Injuries might end up derailing his career, but he has talent.

14
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:16pm

Merry Xmas to everyone!

I didn't see any football yesterday, so what's with all the goofy scores?

Cardinals won, 49ers won, Dallas won and Detroit won. Did some teams make an early start on the sherry?

15
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:17pm

Hehe. I'm listening to the radio, and the announcers are all over Brett Favre. "Did you see him pump his fist? How many 15-year quarterbacks pump their fist like that? That's what Brett Favre is about."

Who knew pumping your fist after completing a pass was a sign of greatness?

16
by Darrel (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:21pm

that was probably the best drive we'll see all day from either team.

17
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:26pm

Did anyone else just hear a commentator sat "Orton got better every week but the passing game just wasn't there", and does that make any saense at all?

18
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:27pm

I'm sorry, that should sat 'sense'. (Embarrassed)

19
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:28pm

That should've said said. :D

No, that doesn't make any sense. I certainly don't think Orton was improving.

20
by Digit (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:31pm

Who knew pumping your fist after completing a pass was a sign of greatness?

After years of watching Derek Jeter do this, it's probably ingrained (and inbred) into Fox announcers.

21
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:33pm

Good grief! Chicago might have a valid QB.

22
by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:34pm

Watch out Seahawks!

Shows you what sitting on the bench for awhile can do for a QB...

23
by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:35pm

Now watch the Packers win 20-7 or something like that...

24
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 7:57pm

Interesting pair of penalties. It's worked out nicely for GB.

25
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:11pm

Bears turn down holding, opting for 3rd and 6 instead of 2nd and 16. Of course the Packers convert...

26
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:14pm

Is the worst tackling " great defense" of all time?

27
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:16pm

Looks like Martin is done for the game. Kevin Barry will be the 2nd TE.

28
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:16pm

Again Bears turn down a penalty... 3rd and 9 instead of 2nd and 19,,, let's see how that works out

29
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:17pm

Bears offsides. thus its now 3rd and 4... and Packers convert.

30
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:18pm

Now Rod Gardner can catch the ball.

31
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:19pm

Chicago has not given up more than 7 points in a quarter in 10 games.

Donald Driver was WIIIIIIDE open and Favre missed him.

32
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:24pm

Thanks for showing all the penalties and penalty calls, Fox.

33
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:26pm

Packers worked so hard and ended with a missed FG. Bears took less than a minute to get a TD response.

I think the Bears might've lost this game with Orton...

34
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:29pm

Packers are playing at a penalty a minute clip here... (stats won't show all the ones turned down)

35
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:29pm

How about that defensive holding on a run play? Oh yeah.

Yeah.

36
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:32pm

What is with the Bears tackling?

37
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:32pm

You know what would be cool? Comparing Chicago's offensive DVOA under Grossman to where it was under Kyle Krenzel. I think the offense is above average. Like I was saying earlier in the season, all they needed was a competent QB. The O-line and WRs are fine.

38
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:33pm

That was a catch by Chatman.

Nice throw by Sherman with the left hand.

39
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:34pm

Looks like a catch to me.

40
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:35pm

RE: 26

What's strange is that since Grossman replaced Orton, the defense has gotten worse. Maybe the defense can't handle a good offense.

41
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:36pm

RE: 33

If Orton was QBing, I definitely think Green Bay takes this one.

42
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:38pm

I notice whenever it is incontrovertible, they seem to explain it (i.e., "the ball hit the ground", etc), but in cases like these, they just say "the call stands". They didn't have enough to overturn, despite him probably having caught it.

43
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:39pm

That was a great throw by Rex. Too bad Muhsin dropped it.

44
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:40pm

Andrew: Orton probably would've. He's a rookie. My point in all this is: he is a rookie. He hasn't been good, no. Some of it is rookie-ness. Some of it is being handed a really pathetically limited playbook. Some of it is bad recieving. But this team is not going to win the super bowl. The Stillers splattered them and now they're having trouble with Green Bay.

So, you make Grossman your QB of the future, give him a big contract since he's up for one after decently big games against bad pass defences and pray he doesn't get looked at funny and break his ankle? I get the feeling that he's going to give them more replacement-level play. Sure, that's better than Orton right now, but I can't believe that's what he's going to stay at, because he's made some really nice plays.

Have I mentioned he's a rookie?

45
by peachy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:42pm

Seriously, what has happened to the Bears' D? I've been hearing about them all year, I finally tune in, and this is what I get?

46
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:42pm

That pass was dying. Thrown off his back foot and it hit a wall of wind.

47
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:42pm

Is it just me, or has every single pass been downfield? That is sorta weird.

48
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:44pm

He's also what, a 4th round draft pick? Grossman has a lot more potential than Orton I think.

This Bears would be one and out with Orton at QB. With Grossman I think they lose to the Seahawks, but you never know, if they get on a roll, with a bit of confidence, they might make it to the superbowl.

49
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:44pm

Wow, 2 picks so quickly. Chicago could get a FG here.

50
by Darrel (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:48pm

Charles Tillman! Ragin Cajuns represeeeent.

51
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:50pm

RE: 44

Pittsburgh wouldn't have splattered them if Grossman was playing.

I don't know if Grossman is the future. He has the talent. But he's shown that he's injury-prone. I still think he's a more talented QB than Orton.

52
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:51pm

Neither team has been able to run the ball tonight, excluding Thomas Jones's 25 yard run on a draw on 3rd and 10.

53
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:53pm

Which drive was it that the Bears declined those penalties?

54
by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 8:57pm

Fnor,
Orton is a rookie, but he has more starts than Grossman! That makes Orton a seasoned rookie, and Grossman a wet behind the ears rookie.

I certainly hope the Bears don't make the Super Bowl...

55
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:09pm

The missed FG drive was the one with the declined penalties.

56
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:11pm

re:9

I was wrong, I was using the same thinking that Atlanta was, that if Dallas was eliminated for Wild Card#1, they couldn't qualify for Wild Card#2. The Panthers need a Redskins or Cowboys loss if they lose.

57
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:12pm

Grossman's been through 3 training camps, he's been practicing and getting coaching and working with the system and studying his limited amount of film in the offseason for 3 years. There's a big difference.

58
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:13pm

In watching both of them play there seems to be no comparison... I fail to see how anyone can view this as a mistake.

59
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:15pm

If the bears win, do they clinch #2 seed? They have tiebreakers on both the Bucs and Panthers...

60
by byron (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:18pm

re #59
yeah, a win clinches the 2 seed for the bears...

61
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:22pm

Favre overthrows an open man in the end zone. Commentator says: "that was a great throw... just not enough end zone". Yes, it was the fault of the stadium.

62
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:24pm

And the Bears 2nd half gameplan also includes the innovative 'lets miss some tackles and give up some unecessary 12st downs to keep it close' tactic.

63
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:25pm

Longwell has pushed 2 FGs wide, starring for Loser League teams everywhere.

64
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:27pm

RE: 57

Ron Turner came in with a new system this offseason. Grossman had no more experience with it than Orton. Plus, Grossman was injured anyway. Orton got to play most of the season. A lot more experience than Grossman in Turner's lame system.

65
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:31pm

And Brett finally pulls a Favre to seal the game.

66
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:31pm

Sid writes "game over" in his notebook.

67
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:32pm

Oops. Bad Favre, TD Bears and, I think, game over.

68
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:33pm

So Favre has thrown 3 INTs, 2 of which have counted.

69
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:33pm

... and they're still making excuses for him. He never saw Briggs. There was pressure in his face... it was a dumb throw, you can't do that in this part of the field, any other QB would be soundly criticized for such a throw.

70
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:41pm

The Bears stopped throwing a while ago. It's basically been straight runs, even on 3rd and long.

71
by byron (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:45pm

why is everyone still talking about orton vs grossman, orton was no game manager, he was a liablity, and the bears won despite is poor play. maybe orton has a future, but going into the playoffs grossman is the best qb the bears have. the difference with grossman under center is obvious

72
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:49pm

OK, I had the over on Favre's INTs based on Darrel's line (post #10). Looks like I'm going to lose, because the 4th INT was cancelled out by Harris's pass interference. Oh well.

Favre is prolly going to finish with 3 that count.

73
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:50pm

Another bad throw picked. It occurs to me that this might be the last time I see Brett Farve play, and it's not really how you'd like to see a genuinely great player finish.

74
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 9:51pm

That was enlighting. Thanks for the listen in.

75
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:00pm

Not quite coffin corner then...

76
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:00pm

Well whaddaya know. Now those missed FGs loom even larger..

77
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:03pm

Could GB just give Fisher 2 more damn carries?

78
by stan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:06pm

Greed kills. The return for TD is a perfect example of doing what you always do because no one bothered to stop and think of the relative risk/reward.

Punt the ball into the end zone. You have a 17 point lead. Your defense is dominant. A big return is the most likely way the Pack gets back in the game. At this stage of the game, the few yards of field position gained by the pooch punt are not worth the risk of a return.

Put it on the 20 and make them go 80 yards.

79
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:09pm

Another drop for Muhsin. Damn good throw by Rex.

80
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:09pm

Gutsy call... but dropped. Should've had it.

81
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:10pm

#77- Sid, do throws to Fischer count?

82
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:11pm

Sherman's pulling a Herm. No TO on 4th down to lose 40 seconds, now dinks in the middle when they need to score quickly.

83
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:12pm

RE: 81

No. Throws to Fisher make it worse. I have Fisher in the Loser League, and I need 8 carries to avoid the penalty. Damn Green Bay. Fisher has like 8 catches already.

84
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:13pm

Nice catch by thurman... but somehow I think not being able to get in the end zone will cost em...

85
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:15pm

Those last two passes were two great decisions by Brett.

86
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:15pm

Green Bay has to kick a FG here. They have to. But they won't.

87
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:18pm

#86

They did :)

88
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:18pm

Okay I was wrong. Now here is where Rex has to complete a pass on 3rd down to finish it.

89
by stan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:19pm

Favre is just butchering the 2 minute drill.

1. Never make receivers swap sides of the field while the clock runs.

2. He ran 15 seconds off just calling a play.

3. With 2 scores needed, why is he dumping it short twice in a row.

4. Why not hustle to the ball and get a play completed (TD or incl.) before the 2 minute timeout?

No way a veteran QB should be wasting so much valuable time. Really, really poor execution.

90
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:19pm

Muhsin finally caught a ball!

91
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:20pm

Wow, rekick. Kick it deep!

92
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:20pm

say what? offsides bears?

93
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:20pm

Dumb penalty on Chicago. This could really hurt if GB recover.

94
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:21pm

One first down and its over, either on the 20 or on the 50. I guess onside kick makes sense...

95
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:21pm

They need to kick it away. Longwell can't make the onside kick.

96
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:21pm

Vasher. Dumb move. Should've kicked it deep.

97
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:22pm

RE: 94

They have 3 timeouts. If they could force a 3 and out, they'd have a good shot. Now? Basically nil.

98
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:23pm

Kreutz actually is back in the game. I guess the Bears really want this one.

99
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:25pm

I guess they didn't have enough faith in Rex to let him win the game. (weird given their last drive's decision). I guess it does force the last time out, but this game won't end on time, it will end on the drive being stopped or not.

100
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:26pm

OK, now I guess that's what it costs you for attempting the onside kick.

101
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:26pm

That'll get them most of the way.

102
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:28pm

Two straight sacks off a 4 man rush. No miracle here.

103
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:28pm

I win! I picked the over on 3.5. Where's my money? :D

104
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:29pm

Sid, you got your over.

105
by johnt (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:32pm

i think the packers pull that one off if jose cortez didn't steal ryan longwell's uniform. they must be storing up a lot of karma for future seasons because nothing ever, ever goes right for them.

106
by Digit (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:34pm

Or maybe they're borrowing from years past's karmas where Favre had everything going his way when he took those gambles... who knows?

107
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:34pm

I've seen this off-field summary before every Vikings game since they won two in a row.

108
by Kal (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:37pm

I think teams should be scared of a Grossman-led bears team. Yeah, they can give up the occasional play, but more often than not they're a dominant defense with an offence that can now make some plays. That INT was an ugly throw, agreed, but it was not nearly as bad as the throws Orton has been making all season, and there were some really good throws that were flat-out dropped by Muhammed.

I'm now actually looking forward to the Bears winning a playoff game and meeting the Seahawks in the NFC Champ game. That should be fun.

I really wish I would just turn off the volume on Green Bay games...I'm getting actually sick at the amount of accolades they give Favre for a 4-int performance.

109
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:41pm

The Bears need to use their bye week to practise there tackling. If I had a pound for every missed tackle tonight, I'd be booking Pro Bowl tickets.

Oh and after 3 minutes I'm already begining to understand why you guys castigate this SNF rabble.

110
by Dean from Oz (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:52pm

Fantasy Football Gut Punch

My wife (having already won her winners league) was leading by 15, with her opponent having the CHI defense.

1 minute to go, the Chi defense has 13 points (3 picks worth 6, the td worth 6 and 17 points against worth 1)....sack (1), sack (1), pick (2), all over.

111
by Dean from Oz (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:55pm

Just to clarify #110, she led her 2nd final by 15....until the last 60 seconds of that game. (she won the first by lots)

112
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:57pm

Travis Taylor was one of Ozzie Newsome's only first round busts. He's burning Baltimore tonight. Ironic.

113
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 10:58pm

I don't believe what I just heard:

"Some people don't realise how important a QB is on a QB sneak".

Words fail me.

114
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:00pm

Who took the over on Baltimore-Minnesota?

115
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:07pm

Well, Brad Johnson might not be the best quarterback, but he knows the fastest way to the Mall of America. I'd want him on my team.

116
by lk6 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:08pm

LMAO @ Ed Reed.

117
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:11pm

RE: 115

Did one of the Three Stooges reference that?

118
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:14pm

RE: 114

I didn't, but I still think this game has a shot to stay under 33.

118
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:14pm

re: 117.

Suzy did during a little Brad travalogue complete with a map and a line between 3 cities. She said, this time (back in Minnesota) he knew where the malls were. One of them (Maguire?) said that was especially important in Minnesota.

120
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:33pm

Thanks to Digit for the article on Mora Jr. throwing a tantrum after being questioned on his idiotic decisions in OT against the Bucs. Click my name.

Like father, like son.

121
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:35pm

Seconds after stating that ripping off the helmet was legal, all three of them now say that it was a facmask and "How could you miss that?"

122
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:37pm

Boller and Brad are the master of short passes.

Boller: 9/11 for 59 yards
Johnson (before the long pass to Williamson): 10/13 for 76 yards

123
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:54pm

Why did Baltimore run the ball? That made no sense.

124
by Opiegrey (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:58pm

re: 123 (Sid). As a Baltimore fan, I wish I could answer that. This team I think has been so inept offensively over the past few years that they rely too much on trying to out-think the opposition rather than out-playing the opposition. Which leads to plays like the draw...c'est la vie.

125
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/25/2005 - 11:59pm

They were running out of time. In fact, they did run out of time. What Billick and Fassel were thinking there, we'll probably never know.

126
by James, London (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 12:23am

Terrific catch by Clayton for the TD.

127
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 12:51am

Ravens are 9 of 12 on 3rd downs. Most of them 6+ yards.

128
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:00am

Chase Blackburn has a strained neck and won't play next week against Oakland.

129
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:01am

That commentary was eerily predictive.

130
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:08am

Tice elects to punt on 4th and 1 from the Ravens 40-something...

131
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:08am

RE: 74, 101, 129

Jeremy, I'm not sure what those posts were referring to.

132
by Dan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:10am

As TMQ would say, not going for it on 4th and one from the opponents 41 yard line?

Mark it down for a loss.

133
by Digit (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:10am

Jeremy-

I have no idea what these posts are referering to. Can you at least include a snippet of what the heck you're referring to? I'm assuming there's some sort of comment from the commentors that needs to be pointed out to those of us not following the game (and sometimes, for those of us who ARE following the game and actually paying attention to the action rather than the commentors...)

134
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:14am

Re: 131, 133

Sorry, If you'd mentioned something sooner I would have modified my style. If something makes no sense, then it's a reference to something on the broadcast that was stupid but unimportant.

Re: 129

The commentators said that the Vikings had said the Boller couldn't beat them through the air, but that he was. This, up until the interception was in the air.

135
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:17am

The Vikings haven't stopped the Ravens all game. They punted twice early, since then only the one interception has stopped them.

136
by Digit (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:21am

The commentors are really really really bad, so I've been sort of tuning them out, admittedly. :D But wow, that is kinda ... bad. :D

Wait till Boller turns the ball over to them with an INT for a TD.

And man, Jamal Lewis really hasn't looked good, aside from that one burst where the OL knocked everyone down.

137
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:21am

The only thing the Vikings have stopped is the Baltimore running game. But Boller is destroying them.

138
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:22am

Okay, Billick, Boller has completed every pass on third down you've asked him to... and with a chance to slam the door, you run the ball on 3rd and 6. FG coming up after 2-minute warning and Vikings still have a (faint) pulse...

139
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:23am

McGowan: Black Bears represent!

Also, I don't think its fir to compare Mora Jr. temper tantrum to Mora Sr. outburst. (For those who don't know, Mora Sr. was fired from HC at Indy after a season where he answered, in response to a question about how the Colts would make the playoffs from 4-6, "Playoffs?! Don't talk about playoffs! You kidding me?! Playoffs?! I just hope we win a game! Another game!") When things are so bad that you are 4-6, the only way to kep a team's spirits up is to take things day-by-day. To keep the team morale up, you need to tell the players, "maybe we won't make the playoffs, but we sure as hell have a chance to win this game." Mora could be criticized for letting the season go down the drain, as they finished 6-10, but he was right to be more focused on getting another win than on making the playoffs at 4-6.

Worth noting: In the offseason, the Colts fired Jim Mora and replaced him with Tony Dungy, who then traded for Jon Gruden from Oakland. Tampa Bay beat Oakland in the Super Bowl, and the Colts made the playoffs but were blanked 52-0 by a Jets team near the end of Pennington's career season.

140
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:27am

Game over. Season over for vikings.

141
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:27am

Sid writes "game over" in his notebook. bal

142
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:28am

Should the vikings allow the ravens to score immediately, to try desperation + onside kick?

143
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:29am

That was a really awful block by one of the Vikings (center?) on Thomas. He just sort of leaned at him and fell over completly missing and leaving the middle of the line wide open.

144
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:29am

RE: 139

I admit, the playoffs rant was funny. It's an alltime NFL moment. Mora Jr's tantrum was just childish.

145
by Dan (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:31am

Sid,

Tice must be relieved that he didn't go for that 4th and one.

146
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:33am

Stover kicks off out of bounds. Game is over, but still never a good thing...

147
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:36am

The vikings are playing for a consolation TD.

148
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:36am

Consolation FG that is.

149
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:37am

and somewhere, a Fantasy championship was lost on that decision.

150
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:37am

Ya know, I would've gone for it on 4th and goal if I was Baltimore. Why not? It would've left Minnesota with no shot either way.

151
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:38am

Wow, teams never get that right when they need 10(or 11) points in the last two minutes. They almost always go for the touchdown first and burn up too much clock, sometimes even on fourth down. It's good to see the Vikings kick as soon as they get into range. Still, it's not going to work this time.

152
by James, London (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:45am

I'd like to wish Jamal Lewis the very best of luck in his quest for big free agent dollars. He was awful tonight (3ypc), and if that is representative of his season he'll do well to get a minimum salary and some incentives. If the Edge and Alexander can't get paid, how does Lewis think his Eddie George impression is going to get him the big bucks?

153
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:52am

Well, as a Vikings fan in the long run I wanted to see them win, but it wouldn't have changed much, they weren't getting in the playoffs regardles. I think the biggest part of it was what we were told the players believed, that if they stopped Jamal Lewis they thought the game was theirs, they didnt' believe Boller could beat them and probably didn't even plan for it.

Now, normally I might excuse that, but you had a shining example just one week before of Boller's newfound confidence on display on national tv. Against a team you only beat (twice) by 3 pts each time.

Other observations: Mark Clayton is a much better receiver at this point than Troy Williamson. Napoleon Harris doesn't even start for the team, don't think he was on the field. The fact that Randy Moss was hurt and not much of a factor on the Raiders doesn't make that trade any less of a disaster for the Vikings.

I do think the poeple that were brought in midway through the season helped the vikings tremendously, Jerry RHome on offense and Foge Fazio on defense. However, Tice... I mean, I respect that he got them turned around, and I like him as a person, but I don't think he has the edge as a coach that will get this team to where it needs to be. If the right person is available, they should pursue it, but they shouldn't change just to change.

Next year Culpepper probably won't be ready at the start of the year, and has even hinted that he might go somewhere else (it would be hard to with his contract though). I dunno. The Palm Beach Post has floated Duante to the Dolphins rumors, which I'm sure he would love. I feel the Vikings have to stick with him, Brad Johnson, while he's played well, is getting up in years.

Anyway enough rambling. With the Vikings out I can enjoy the playoffs as an unbiased observer now.

154
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:53am

#151 - Jeremy, it wasn't Tice or anyone on the coaching staff that realized that. It was Brad Johnson, who after spiking the ball, immediately signalled for the kicking unit to come on.

155
by Digit (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 2:02am

re: 154

That would make 100 times more sense than believing that Mike Tice was smart enough to think like that.

156
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 2:10am

Re 154:

Could Brad Johnson follow the Gary Kubiak career path: Average QB for many years, retire, get jobs assistant coaching at college and/or QB coaching in the NFL, then become a top offensive coordinator in the NFL.

Does Brad Johnson have the smarts for it?

By the way, I think people misattribute the Broncos sucess under Shanahan to Shanahan. I think that the reason that the Broncos keep on finding 1,000 yard rushers and rehabilitated a QB everyone wrote off after his performance in Arizona after 4 years, is that Gary Kubiak is to offense what Bill Belichick is to defense.

157
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 2:15am

Brad Johnson has always struck me as someone who makes good decisions, even when he first got playing time. He'd always do things like if no one lined up over him just dart through the line for 5 yards (back then he was a little more mobile), make reads... he was never the most gifted qb (he didn't get to start his senior year at Florida State as a result iirc) but generally he just got results.

If he hadn't gotten hurt in 1998, I think he might've had just as good a year as Cunningham had... and the following year, with Billick gone and no real OC, the Vikings sorely missed him.

158
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 3:27am

Just wondering, on what is the claim that Kubiak was an 'average' QB based? He had a total of 298 career attempts (in 9 years), or 56 less than Kyle Orton's career to date. He could have been average, or horrible, or a top-5 QB who was just stuck backing up a legend, and I don't have any idea how we'd know.

159
by Digit (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 3:39am

From Elias, this stuff amazes me.

• Brett Favre threw four interceptions in the Packers' loss to the Bears, raising his total to 28 this season. Over the last 15 years, the only other player to throw 28 or more INTs in a season was Peyton Manning as a rookie in 1998.

• Favre has thrown 10 interceptions since his last touchdown pass. Prior to his current streak Favre had never thrown more than five INTs between TD passes.

160
by Catfish (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 3:50am

"The only thing the Vikings have stopped is the Baltimore running game. But Boller is destroying them."

Who, in 2003, could have imagined this statement being made in all seriousness?

161
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 4:17am

This was a game in which one coordinator, Fassel, clearly outcoached another, Cottrel. The Vikings kept blitzing ineffectively, and the Ravens kept capitalizing.

Then again, defensive coordinators look a lot smarter when they have a pass rusher who can consistently beat single blocking, and offensive coordinators look really smart when the opponent doesn't have anybody who can do that.

Give Bill Belichik Mike Nolan's personnel, and Mr. Wardrobe's halo of genius would recede just a wee bit.

162
by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 4:18am

Got back from Christmas dinner with relatives, caught the 2nd half of the Vikings-Ravens.

Gotta cut on with the love for Brad Johnson... at least in this game. Instead of throwing the ball away he ended up pulling a Farve and got stripped, essentially losing the game.

163
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 5:40am

The most damning thing about Tice I can say from this game, and this comes partly from his coaching pedigree from Denny Green, is that by, oh, the second quarter it should have been obvious that their defensive game plan (stop Jamal Lewis, force Boller to beat us) wasn't going to work.

There were no adjustments made. They didn't really blitz all game, just mostly on key third downs, where time and time again they were burned. I don't know if that's on Cottrell or Tice (ultimately it has to come back to Tice though). There is a difference between a weeklong preperation coach (which he isn't bad at) and a gameday adapt coach. I can think of one game (the first Packers one) where they really turned it around in the second half.

164
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:19am

I wasn't able to comment during the games, nor did I see more than half of either, but there were a few things I remember that I want to mention here.

Early in the Chicago/GB game, the analyst (Bill Maas?) actually did some real analysis, and got it exactly right. The Packers ran up the middle with a fake end around left, and the left DE crashed the middle, ignoring contain. The announcer pointed this out (amazing in itself that one actually noticed line play), and said the Packers would run the same play with a real end around next time. A few plays later, they did, the DE crashed the middle again, and they picked up about 12 yards. While it was a good call by Maas, I think it says a lot about the state of announcing that this is the best analysis I've heard from an announcer all year. This kind of stuff should be the norm.

After Fred Smoot made a tackle, one of the Stooges said something about "He's not the kind of guy who wants to stick his head in there." That's not the kind of setup you want while watching a game with your mother! I had to run to the kitchen to avoid laughing in front of everyone, so I wouldn't have to explain why.

165
by Kaveman (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 1:03pm

#156: Kubiak and Shanahan coached together with the 49ers where Shanahan was offensive coordinator when Seifert's team won the Super Bowl. They moved to Denver together. Which of them is responsible for Denver's success? That's kinda like wondering if the chocolate chips or the cookie dough are more important...

You could just as easily give the credit to Bobby Turner, the RB coach, who has been with the Broncos since 1995. Or to Alex Gibbs' for his offensive line scheme even though Rick Dennison has coached the line for 5 years.

Denver players seem to believe that this is Shanahan's team through and through, and the owner, Pat Bowlen, has said as much a number of times.

But anyway. My real befuddlement is with the treatment of Brad Johnson. Why does everyone keep calling him "average"? The guy has a ~62% completion percentage, he's passed for over 4000 yards at least once in his career, won a Super Bowl... what does he have to do? His numbers aren't the flashiest, but he is accurate and makes good decisions, which is a heck of a lot better than many other QBs in the league. So why does he get dissed all the time?

166
by admin :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 2:52pm

In Favre's defense, slightly, I have three of his INT's coded as "HM" for Hail Mary. The only other QB with more than one of those is Bledsoe with two.

167
by putnamp (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 3:38pm

#165,

Being called "average" is more or less by definition *not* being "dissed". If you mean "why don't people praise him more?" then you have a case, but if you're calling him average, you're more or less saying he's not bad.

168
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 5:30pm

#165:

By average, I mean that he is average for an NFL QB. He is better than any of the bad QBs in the league, but he is certainly no Brady, Peyton Manning, Palmer, or Hasselbeck. You could argue about where he is in the second tier of NFL QBs. Part of the problme with that is that a lot of the second tier might be first tier if they had a better supporting cast, or not really second tier if they had a worse group around them.

There is one way that Brad Johnson outclasses a lot of QBs around the league, and that is his experience. From what I've seen, Johnson plays smart and knows the limits of his physial ability, and that's because he's been doing what he does for a long time relative to most players in the NFL.

169
by MAW (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 8:53pm

I'm up 19 points going into tonight's game. My opponent has Brady and Jonathan Vilma. I'm freaking out, trying to find out how much Brady is going to play tonight.

Please tell me it's just a series or two, no more than a half. Please?

170
by Judy B. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 9:27pm

I'm sorry, but, from what we've been hearing in Boston, the Patriots are taking this game seriously.

171
by Adam (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 10:46pm

I truely hope everone enjoyed their Bruschimas celebrations...........

172
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 10:53pm

bollinger is starting for the jets, but vinny will play at some point

173
by Catholic Samurai (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:16pm

No one has asked me, but yes, I am enjoying this circa-1908 offense that NE is playing right now.

174
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:17pm

Dillon is making up for all those weeks he missed.

175
by James, London (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:21pm

And another team forgets to cover Mike Vrabel in the endzone. Do these people watch film?

176
by lk6 (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:26pm

I was thinking the same thing, James.

But we all know that Herman Edwards forte is clock management, not watching film.

177
by clem (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:27pm

I wonder what Vrabel's career Outsiders stats as a receiver would be?

178
by lk6 (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:27pm

ED HOCHULLI!

179
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:27pm

About the only thing the Patriots need from this point is to not get another DB injured...

180
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:28pm

Samuel was down before the ball came out.

181
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:30pm

The Pats cannot afford for Samuel to miss the playoffs at all. That would really hurt.

BTW, if I was BB, I'd sit Brady for the 2nd half and not play him at all against Miami. It's fine to play to win tonight, but they'd really be hurting themselves if they played to beat Miami.

182
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:30pm

Given the choice, I'd give up the ball and not have Samuel injured.

183
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:31pm

Brady has a consecutive-starts streak. At a minimum, he's putting in a cameo against Miami.

184
by James, London (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:33pm

Sid, I think the Bengals losing complicates the 'sit your starters' option, as the Pats have a shot at the #3 seed if they win out. Whether you think being #3 rather than #4 is an improvement is a different arguement.

185
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:34pm

Was that Bellichek trying to keep the camera away from seeing whether he was hurt or not?

186
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:34pm

Law kills the Pats!

187
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:35pm

(5:19) B.Bollinger pass intended for D.Jolley INTERCEPTED by A.Samuel at NYJ 49. A.Samuel to NYJ 33 for 16 yards (C.Houston). FUMBLES (C.Houston), RECOVERED by NYJ-C.Houston at NYJ 32. C.Houston to NYJ 32 for no gain (A.Samuel). Play Challenged by NE and Upheld. (Timeout #1 by NE at 05:09.)

WTF? Do they just make the stuff up? I’m sure they’ll fix it, but how did they miss that in the first place!?

188
by James, London (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:35pm

Two questions:

1: do you think TY Law enjoyed that?

2: Anyone see a Brady multi-INT meltdown?

189
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:35pm

#3 seed = play resurgent Steelers. #4 seed = play lackluster, playoff inexperienced Jags.... LAW!

190
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:35pm

Oops.

Well, at least Samuel gets to rest longer. :-/

191
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:36pm

Oh, and they still haven't fixed the Gamebook about the Samuel INT. They still stay challenged by NE and upheld.

But how about Ty Law? He jumped that route nicely. He did practice against Brady a lot...

192
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:37pm

RE: 184

The whole point is that they'd be hurting themselves if they passed the Bengals. That's what I'm trying to say.

If the Bengals lose next week, a win hurts them.

193
by Andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:37pm

Well, there was Tom Brady's best Burger King/Drew Bledsoe/Mike McMahon/Brett Farve play of the game.

194
by Andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:42pm

James, London:

No #3 seed has ever come out of the AFC to the Super Bowl. 4 #4 seeds have (Bills, Broncos, Titans, Ravens), compared to 5 #2's and 6 #1's.

#4 should look pretty good to New England.

195
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:46pm

RE: 194

And obviously, there's the fact that being #4 gets them better matchups. :D
Pittsburgh would have a much better shot at pulling the upset than Jacksonville.

196
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:48pm

WTF was Cotchery doing? He caught it wrong, and he went side to side instead of going upfield!

Bruschi isn't putting weight on his left leg. Doesn't look so good.

197
by James, London (not verified) :: Mon, 12/26/2005 - 11:51pm

OK, OK, I'm convinced! #4 is better, so bring on Doug Flutie :)

Oh, and are you ready for the Monty Beisel Experience?

198
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:04am

I didn't even know Dave Ball was on the roster. I guess they had to find someone to replace Ellis, Robertson, etc.

199
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:05am

Can they cover Vrabel?

200
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:06am

David Barrett was late coming over both times.

201
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:07am

3 TDs by Brady.

Of course, one was to Law, for old times' sake.

And there's yet to be a score by an offensive starter. Not even a tackle at fullback. 8-)

202
by andrew (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:09am

No, they want to win this week, which will force the Bengals to tank next week so they don't get the Steelers, thus putting them into a nosedive going into the playoffs and a disrespected Jags team advances to face Indy, which everyone knows usually plays the Colts well and the end result is AFC championship game in Foxboro. All part of the master plan.

203
by James, London (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:10am

Vrabel Again? Is Herm watching game film or the Ray Charles film?

204
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:12am

Blaylock is barely getting on the field. Amazing.

205
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:17am

RE: 202

I'm sure BB would be ecstatic if that happened, but I somehow don't see Jacksonville winning in Indy. :P

206
by James, London (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:30am

21-0. I'm calling this one.

207
by andrew (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:39am

35 years of Monday Night Football ending and all I can think of is "no more of that country music highlights guy"....

208
by Catholic Samurai (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:42am

Did my eyes/ears decieve me, or did one of the old guys from the Muppets Show just say "Fo' Shizzle" during that montage?

209
by NF (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:48am

Interesting...I thought the NFL destroyed all footage of TO and Sheridan.

Also, Frank Gifford is the man who made Chuck Bednarik of the Eagles famous, when, in a playoff game, Gifford was tackled by Bednarik so hard, not only was the ball fumbled and recovered by the defense for a win, Gifford missed the entire next season. Ouch.

210
by Led (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:53am

The Pats managed to play an entire half and run upwards of 50 offensive plays without a single rules infraction. That Belichick sure is a good coach....

211
by Jeff F (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:53am

Bethel Johnson is down now, too. Hey, at least they have great depth at WR, losing your #5 WR/#2 KR isn't that bad. They said Bruschi's leg wasn't a fracture, but nothing else. Hopefully it's just a minor sprain or twisted ankle, but I fear it might be a tendon, not knowing anything about injuries. Anyone have any more informed opinions on what that might be?

Pats front 3/4 is working so well that they could play a 7 man defense effectively ;)

Okay, maybe not.

212
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:55am

RE: 206

You mean 21-7.

And yeah, this game was over before it started. The Jets had no shot. They stink on offense (no QB, OL, or RB), and they're missing their best defensive linemen.

213
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 12:59am

Branch has been key on 3rd downs tonight.

I'm rooting for no more scoring to happen except for a NE defensive TD, and a missed XP by Vinatieri. :)

(I have the NE defense going up against Vinatieri, and I need to gain almost 8 points in one fantasy league, and in a picks pool, the tiebreaker is point totals and I chose 33)

214
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:00am

New England going for it on 4th and 3!

215
by James, London (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:01am

Sid,

21-7. My mistake.

It's 4am in the UK, there's 8:44 left in the 3rd and the Jets have 28yds of offense, NO 1st Downs, and still think Mike Vrabel is a decoy in the endzone.

The only interesting thing about this game is trying to guess which Patriot will get injured next. I'm off to bed.

216
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:02am

I predict a touchdown to Dillon or Vrabel coming up.

217
by Kal (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:03am

I know it was stated, but Vrabel's DPAR for a receiver position has to be the highest in the history of the game ever. 6 passes, 6 catches, 6 TDs.

Do people just have no ability to see him? How can he keep getting open like this? Crazy.

Also crazy: keeping anyone in. The football gods will smite down more than Bruschi and a #5 WR, mark my words.

218
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:03am

RE: 215

Dunno why you stayed up for this stinker of a game.

219
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:04am

RE: 216

Weee! I was right. Of course, that wasn't terribly hard to guess, given the ineptitude of the Jets defense.

220
by Tarrant (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:04am

Stunning that it can be the 3rd quarter and the Jets don't have a single 1st down in the game.

That's just pathetic. I don't care how bad any given Team A is relative to Team B, as long as they're both professional football teams and that should never happen.

T.

221
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:05am

RE: 217

I agree. I would pull all the most important players. In fact, I wouldn't have had them come out for the 2nd half. Not sure what the Patriots are doing.

222
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:05am

I noticed Dillon is wearing the one-sleeve thing on his right arm. Does he usually carry it in his right or left, or does he even have a preference? The last two were in his left (bare) arm, but I didn't see the game before that. I wonder if he keeps the left bare for ball control purposes?

The first play I saw, the Pats were on the 25-ish. Brady and a back (Faulk?) were standing on the 30, and the camera was showing the 45. Yes, I would much rather see an empty 15 yards behind the QB than anything boring like safeties or linebackers. Sheesh.

223
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:10am

And the Jets get a first down! Congrats, guys.

224
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:10am

Trogdor (#222 )--

Dillon always carries the ball in his left arm, keeping his right arm free to stiff-arm.

I'd say it's a weakness in his game, but it seems to work.

225
by NF (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:11am

This has nothing to do with football, but I despise any dance party where 90% of all music is rap.

I want to see the entire 4th quarter be Vinny vs. Flutie.

226
by Walt Pohl (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:12am

First down! And the Jets comeback is on.

227
by Kuato (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:19am

"I know it was stated, but Vrabel’s DPAR for a receiver position has to be the highest in the history of the game ever. 6 passes, 6 catches, 6 TDs."

DPAR will not be that great, because only 6 passes, no matter how good, don't create a lot of value. However, his DVOA against all other receivers with at least 6 passes thrown their way must be amazing.

228
by Starshatterer (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:19am

I think the Jets are making sure Flutie stays on the bench for a while.

229
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:24am

OK, when is Vinny coming in already?

230
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:25am

Interesting. Generally backs switch arms depending where the run is going to keep it away from defenders. But some pretty good ones (Emmitt, I think, and he turned out OK, and apparently Dillon) always keep it in the same arm. In theory it should cut down fumbles to switch arms, but does it work out in practice that way? I don't think Emmitt fumbled a whole lot, what about Dillon? Anyone else keep it in the same arm all the time?

231
by Catholic Samurai (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:27am

RE #225:

Kudos, from one king of randomness to another.

232
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:30am

Nugent is one of the worst kickoff guys in the league. What a wasted 2nd rounder...

233
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:32am

RE: 230

Ahman Green did for a while. I think they finally got him to change. I've seen Larry Johnson keep it in the wrong arm, but he probably usually does switch.

234
by richconley (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:34am

i really wish they'd stop waxing nostalgic.

235
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:35am

David Barrett is the goat of this game.

236
by NF (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:55am

And Brooks Bollinger has reached the low point of his career, as down by 17 points, he falls down after a snap and is sacked, and two plays later, he is sacked and fumbles to the defense.

And we have a Flutie sighting.

237
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:57am

Finally Vinny comes in.

238
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:58am

Hehe, Digit pointed out that we might be setting a record for combined age of the QBs in the game. Vinny is like 43 and Flutie is like 42.

239
by NF (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 2:05am

Vinny! Vinny! Vinny! Vinny!

(Not a Jets fan, but had a roommate who was.)

240
by NF (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 2:06am

Said roommate also loathed Testaverde, so I wonder what his reaction is to Vinnie's record.

241
by Digit (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 2:07am

In fairness's sake, I didn't mention it- someone else did the legwork on the age thing in some other thread.

242
by Digit (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 2:31am

Darn, I can't seem to link to the particular thread.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ramblings.php?p=3386&cat=0

and man, it was unreal when MNF showed this:

31 consecutive offensive plays by New England, spanning the second and third period. The Jets REALLY need to overhaul that D.

243
by Jeff F (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 7:11am

To be fair, Nugent was kicking into a tremendous wind most of the evening, the same wind that the Pats didn't kick a 39 yard field goal into. Brady had to have a really good DPAR night with all those 3rd down and 4th down passing and rushing conversions.

Flutie looked horrible and confused :(

244
by Andrew (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 10:46am

Vrabel has at least one competitor in his catches for touchdowns derby that I am aware of - Long Snapper Mike Bartrum.

Excluding his forced play as a back-up Tight End in the meaningless Bengals game last year (he caught 3 passes for 27 yards), during his career in New England and Philadelphia he's caught 8 passes for 38 yards and 6 touchdowns. His two non-TD passes were an 8 yard gain on a scoring drive on 1st and 10 from the 29, and a 17 yard gain to set up a field goal on 3rd and 24 from the 39. He has 2 TD's for the Patriots and 4 for the Eagles.

Every time Bartrum made a catch, the Patriots and Eagles won the game. Ditto for Vrabel.

245
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:14pm

RE: 243

His kickoffs have been terrible all year long. He's got to be one of the 5 worst kickoff men in the league.

246
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 1:14pm

RE: 244

What about Mike Sellers of the Redskins? He rarely gets thrown to besides for goal line plays.

247
by Andrew (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 2:09pm

Mike Sellers has too many non-TD catches to be in the same category as Vrabel and Bartrum. He's more like Jeff Thomason (the Tight End brought back from Toll Brothers for the Super Bowl last year by the Eagles).

248
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 2:49pm

In the 2nd quarter, the Jets defensive line looked like this:

Thomas, Legree, McChesney and Ball

I didn't even know two of them were on the roster, and one I've never heard of, period (McChesney).

249
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 2:56pm

RE: 247

He just had that one bad game against Philly where he had 3 non-TD receptions. He did have a rushing TD on his only attempt in that game, though.
Sellers has one carry all year, which happened to be a TD, and 11 catches, 6 of which were TDs. Take out that strange week against Philly and it becomes 8 catches, 6 for TDs. That's 3/4s.

250
by NF (not verified) :: Tue, 12/27/2005 - 3:06pm

249:

A MNF game happened, and a discussion of players that only scored touchdowns broke out. Now I've seen it all.

251
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 12/29/2005 - 7:36pm

Did you know that fans were chanting "WE WANT BEER!" in the background of the MNF broadcast?