Talk amongst yourselves
8/28: BAL WR/TE, CIN RB, DEN QB/WR, HOU WR, NE WR, SF QB/WR
8/27: ARI WR, BAL RB, DAL QB, LARM WR/TE
* * * * *
The 2016 KUBIAK fantasy football projection workbook updates all preseason for only $20 -- or get it absolutely free with a $10 first-time deposit at FanDuel.com. Purchase it here!
Click here to buy PDF version.
Click here to buy PDF version
Like our page on Facebook and get Football Outsiders links directly in your Facebook feed.
Official Account: @fboutsiders
Scott Kacsmar: @FO_ScottKacsmar
Ben Muth: @FO_WordofMuth
Aaron Schatz: @FO_ASchatz
Vincent Verhei: @FO_VVerhei
-- plus --
Ian Boyd: @Ian_A_Boyd
Bill Connelly: @SBN_BillC
Cian Fahey: @Cianaf
Brian Fremeau: @bcfremeau
Tom Gower: @ThomasGower
Rivers McCown: @RiversMcCown
Chad Peltier: @CGPeltier
Rob Weintraub: @robwein
Sterling Xie: @SterlingXie
This thread is for discussion of action on the field during and after Week 10 Sunday Night Football between Chicago and the New York Giants as well as Monday Night Football between Carolina and Tampa Bay.
Go BIG BLUE!
Those were actually two on target passes from Manning to Burress.
Surprised to see Eddie Hocks wearing long sleeves, hiding the pythons
My Giants offensive line looks pretty good. It will need to be with 3/4 of our defensive line out.
Can you say run blocking.
No fear, Signor Sack. By the time the Monday recap comes out, they will have been a foot over his head caught only because of Plax' great leaping ability.
Three inches away from a pick on that one, Eli...
#3 - He's just waiting for the right time to flex, and burst out of his shirt.
I freaking jinxed them! :-O
Boy, did I have that coming.
#8, #3, yeah like a "that's a first down" signal and rip, there goes the shirt sleeves.
oh Rexy, not so sexy.
Must.. resist.. Dennis Green.. quote..
Are the Giants lining William Joseph up at DE?
Yay, NFL legislates giving birth to a football.
I think I have a bit more man-love for Jacobs than is healthy.
And the "no using the ball in celebrations" rule continues to be stupid.
I'm pretty sure the penalty was not on the celebration but on some jawing afterwards. Jacobs was saying "that's who I am" to Urlacher, who had claimed to not know who Jacobs was when interviewed earlier in the week.
Incredibly poor coaching job and play calling so far by the Bears.
Can the NFL get rid of this stupid rule against celebrating touchdowns? If old jackasses can't handle the celebrations than maybe they can avert their fragile eyes or something.
If he got the penalty for the ball-as-baby thing, the NFL is going to get a nasty letter from my wife. She (a Steelers fan) thought Jacobs' celebration was the sweetest thing she's seen from an NFL player.
What a incredibly selfish act. Jacobs was clearly celebrating his own personal achievement without regard for his team. I don't know how the Giants put up with his antics week after week.
I predict a Madden love fest with Brandon Jacobs as well. If Jacobs is wearing the same jersey as last week, watch for the obsessing with the stitches on the back.
These celebration rules are really insane. I don't see what's so terrible about what Jacobs did, or about his teammates jumping on him for a second. Disclaimer: I'm not a NYG fan, or a Bear hater. Let guys feel good and do something for a few seconds, what's the real harm?
Ball as a prop penalty?!? Is that a new T.O. rule from last week? I think I remember players using the ball as a "prop" before. In fact I remember some player (maybe a Jet) pretending the ball was a coconut and "opening and drinking" from it when he scored. It was pretty funny.
Of course you can do a 56-step dance choreography after a first down and that's okay. But celebrate after a TD and they can't wait to rain yellow on you. It's so silly.
I guess the jump shot is okay for celebrations, eh? Does David Stern allow NBA guys to do sack dances?
Maybe it's just me, but isn't a player using the ball as a prop when you spike the thing? Hmm. Again, there's not a lot of logic or consistency to the current celebration rules.
Maybe they can give 15 yard penalties against the home team every time the fans in the stands cheer or show emotion. They shouldn't be so emotional. Why can't they be like golf fans?
Oh well, no harm no foul. Er, no points, no harm from the foul. Or something like that.
24- Alfred Pupunu did that, of several teams, I remember him as a Charger, he was in Super Bowl with them
....or Charlotte fans.
The jump shot is actually only okay if one person does it. Two Giants jumpshotting at the same time, and that's a "group celebration" and yet another idiotic 15 yards.
All of a sudden, I'm nostalgic for the overthrows.
O/U on Turnovers tonight : 10.5 sound fair?
That's weak. (hand to head penalty)
The refs are who I thought they were.
Nice kick in the wind tunnel.
Look legit to me. Robbins saw him throw the ball, and intentionally swatted him in the side of the head. It wasn't a hard hit, and Grossman sold it well by dropping and instantly complaining to the ref, but it's a clear violation of the rule.
Make that "Looked"
I agree that the celebration rule is pretty ridiculous. Chad Johnson can celebrate a TD by mimicking Merriman's Lights Out dance with no penalty, but Jacob gets 15 yards for hiding the ball in his jersey? The former celebration is much more incendiary then the latter.
It seems like they call those garbage hand to the head penalties pretty consistently.
Benji- he is honoring his wife with that.
15 yards is not right.
A giant (no pun intended) Old Milwaukee can slamming down on him from the heavens would be.
This game really looks like it will be decided by which QB loses the game.
#37. Yeah you're probably right.
Agreed though, good job by Grossman.
I can't begin to describe how happy I am that we ended up with Rivers rather than Manning. God bless A.J. Smith.
Wow, the Giants are running a lot of nickel blitzes with RW.
Seems to be working.
Also, Michaels said that this was the first time the Bears have goone in the shotgun all season. Wha?
I wish that Al Michaels would actually quantify poor runs better than saying that the RB "goes nowhere." So far tonight, he's used that description for everything between a 2 yd gain and a 4 yd loss. The only difference is the amount of emphasis he places on the "No" syllable.
The Irrational Eli Bashing is starting early tonight. Let's try not to bash ourselves out too early, gotta save some for the second half
Oh jeez - another injury to the Giants.
The reason the Bears haven't used the shotgun all season, and haven't used it a lot in the past few years either, is that their center, Olin Kreutz, is not comfortable with shotgun snapping.
The piper is doooon. I repeat, the piper is dooon.
46: There it is again.
Ah, sweet, sweet, fumble luck.
What's the over/under on Giant penalties tonight?
You're forgetting Grossman's fumble on a sack earlier in the game. That makes the teams roughly equal in fumble luck so far tonight.
Giants really need to run more, becuase Chicago's just getting to strong of a pass rush for Eli to really be all that effective.
I love Jay Feely... he's the only kicker who seems to really enjoy tackling (and is pretty good at it!)
Too strong, I mean.
I have always supported Rex, but if the Bears don't get anything going on offense by halftime, I really think it might be time to bring in Griese.
Did Tiki just run right through Urlacher?
If I have to listen to Madden describe Tiki's carrying style one more time as "high and tight" I will pull a McNabb (and vomit on the field of play).
Fractured left fibula for Petigout.
Jesus H. Christ.
Wow - broken leg for Pettigout.
What on earth happened to the Bears running game between last year and this year? Any ideas?
Why is the Army using the ugly-ass "modern" camoflage as a major part of their recruiting ads? The stuff looks like a background on an Intellivision game. I half expect a grainy-looking tank to roll across the screen.
Did I see an Alfred Pupunu reference?
I think I'm going to cry.
I do not envy whoever has to enter that play into Gamecast. Throw, catch, fumble, recovery, return, fumble, recovery, penalty, and coach's challenge. Crazy.
In other news, Petitgout's injury is already costing the Giants. Whitfield had the hold.
Last Play: 2-9-CHI 17(4:10) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to P.Burress to CHI 6 for 11 yards (D.Manning). FUMBLES (D.Manning), RECOVERED by CHI-C.Tillman at CHI 5. C.Tillman to CHI 13 for 8 yards (C.Snee). FUMBLES (C.Snee), RECOVERED by NYG-J.Shockey at CHI 5. J.Shockey to CHI 13 for -8 yards (I.Scott). PENALTY on NYG-B.Whitfield, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 17 - No Play. Play Under Review.
Ok, somebody's going to have to explain the rule to me.
Great move by Snee to rip the ball out there. Burress should send him a cookie basket or something.
They could've called a late hit on that 3rd down play. A Bears DT basically walked right into Tiki as he was trying to get up after the tackle.
4 scores so far in this game, and the longest scoring drive is 14 yards. Ugly, ugly game.
And the Bears' 14 yard drive consisted of a 15 yard penalty and then 3 plays for -1 yard.
71: 49-41 is just as ugly, IMO.
Hm, I really think he was down, but it was very close, so I guess "irrefutable" and what not.
47: Disco, what's irrational about suggesting it'll be up to which quarterback doesn't ruin the game for his team (when there have been several turnovers or near turnovers from them already), or saying Rivers is better (when he clearly has been so far)?
#71: The Giants had one nice. long drive. But it ended in a missed FG.
Are these false starts just Chicago being dumb, or did NBC do a really poor job mic'ing the crowd? It doesn't sound loud on TV at all.
Oh, so that's what it feels like when it's the other team that's self-destructing with false-start penalties.
It's pretty cool.
And NOW they break out a long run ...
Gah! Is it just me, or do the Giants always give up at least one draw play for big yardage per game?
It's almost like they're playing the pass because the clock's running down on the half.
79: Nick Goings. Gah.
Once again, Gah!
Damnit, Madison had gone a couple weeks without being utterly toasted. (Of course, last week was helped by him not playing.)
Welcome back, Mark Bradley.
3rd and 22 conversion. Madison (#22) is burned. Coincedence?
or a coincidence. Doh!
... and then the Giants ran back the kick to the 22.
The Bears are incredibly lucky to be down just 3. And now a stupid penalty on Cameron Worrell.
On the draw, I saw that coming. The Bears did not want an incomplete pass at that point, so I knew they would run to at least make the Giants burn their last timoeout if they didn't convert.
The whistle hadn't been blown yet and the player wasn't down by contact - how was that a late hit?
I think it was unnecessary roughness, not a late hit. The returner was down on the ground, so all Worrell had to do was touch him down, not launch himself and land on his back. That was a good call.
#87, too bad your post wasn't #88, because we all know 22 x 4 is 88. :-)
Man, was I excited when NBC said that the two best teams in the NFC were playing tonight! I thought, wow, a rematch of the Eagles-Saints game from last month! Now that'll be great!
I guess it's going to be on after this crappy game is over. Can't wait!
#88 the Bears defense is playing much better than it appears because aside from the last drive the offense is once again pooping it's pants, giving the Giants great field position. The Bears actually have more total yardage, and 60% of the yards the Giants gained were on the first drive when the Bears looked caught by surprise.
Boy though - that defense looks a lot better in the Cover-2 than when they get Blitz happy.
Of the 4370957983 pissing me off about this game tonight so far, the one that's got me the most mad is how Madden/Michaels completely missed the importance of the Tillman's holding penalty. The Giants have the ball in Bear territory, and throw a screen that is completely busted up. So bad they get the "illegal man downfield" penalty, so after the play it should be 3rd and 26, out of field goal range. BUT WAIT - Charles Tillman who is getting used tonight more than the local hooker - has an incredibly stupid defensive holding penalty making it still 2nd and 16. Madden spent the play praising the Bears defense on the screen - in SPITE of the fact that the same defense had negated their play on it. On the next play the Giants gained 10 - making it 3rd and 6 and putting them back in FG range. Drive ends in a field goal.
Oh look - you're loosing by three. Punt coverage didn't help either. To be fair Maynard hasn't outkicked his coverage in years.
Thank god for that last drive. That said if Grossman goes back in the pooper they should bring out Griese. This game is for home field in the NFC (possibly) as well as proving once and for all whether this incredibly schitophrenic team (check out their Variance) is good enough to win it all.
The Bears have actually outgained the Giants. Didn't seem that way.
Peter King finds a way to turn the conversation to Brett Favre yet again. Can't it just be Costas and Collinsworth (I'm sorry, Chris Collinsworth) on the halftime show?
Can anyone explain to me why a Fran Drescher guest spot on Law & Order would be viewed as something to be promoted?
I just realized that the SNF music is really really really close to a piece of music from Episode III. Between that and the Pink thing: "Worst. Music. Ever."
Why does Brad Maynard go to pieces in big games - 2001 Philly playoffs, last year against the Panthers in the playoffs, today. Normally very consistent but loses it in big games.
93 - I thought that penalty was on Vasher.
Yeah, it was on Vasher.
#96, is her character assaulted with a ball peen hammer? Then I might tune in.
I wish I had Mush in Loser League.
Muhammed does his best Plaxico Burress impression.
Will Demps used the ball as a prop in a celebration by shooting it like a basketball. It would be only a yard penalty, but where is the consistency?
#101 - I also might watch if she reprises her role from 'Spinal Tap', and the episode revolves around Nigel, Derek, and David being interogated over the death of their latest drummer.
He's running backwards !
107: Honestly, what the hell was that?
I don't think that was how that play was drawn up.
I HATE the Giants, but that was a bullshit roughing call.
And 2 more dumb penalties on the Giants. GAH!
TD, TJ ! Nope holding!
Madden is wrong. Chicago's "finding" the run game isn't because of that draw play. It's because the Giants aren't attacking any more because they don't trust their nickel corner since Madison went out.
Hey another "football as a prop" deal. (not called)
Signor Sack, Muhammad always does that thing with the ball between his legs when he scores a TD. It's never been called a penalty.
I hope the Giants start running more, and Jacobs should be playing more, is he being punished for the penalty??
Tiki's hand is hurt. Put in Hightower.
Ugh. Whitfield stinks.
Holy crap, this is probably over.
"Muhammad always does that thing with the ball between his legs when he scores a TD. Itâ€™s never been called a penalty."
Perhaps true. But Jacobs has been doing the pregnant thing for the last several TDs and it's never been called a penalty.
But that is water under the bridge. It was fun to whine about that when we were dominating. Now that we are sucking like Jenna Jameson, not so much.
#155. OK. It just goes to show how silly the rule is. Which was kinda my point and the other person who said spiking the ball is using the ball as a "prop" (There was a penalty earlier in the game on Jacobs with that exact word "prop" used by the ref.. )
Does Luke's injury put him out for the year, including playoffs?????????????????????????????
122: Playoffs! PLAYOFFS?! /mora
113. Really amazing that the premier NFL game-calling team can't piece together how an injury like Madison's can stretch a defense to the breaking point
Give Jacobs the ball.
#122. For a broken leg, I would figure at least 6 weeks, so he could be back in January, unless he wants to get all hardcore and pull a Jack Youngblood.
If I had told you with about 5 minutes left in the second quarter that Rex was about to have 3 TD passes in 10 minutes of elapsed time, what odds would you have given me on that actually happening?
You know, I'm wondering if that hand injury is affecting Barber.
Yeah Madden, good thing they got the ball to Shockey. Give me a break!
That's how it's gotta be!!! More run, less Eli.
That is 3 straight 100 yard rushers against the Bears, not good.
He reportedly broke his fibula, which is the better of the two lower-leg bones to break. Tibia injuries are generally season ending. So there's some hope he might still play this season.
Unfortunately, the Giants also got thinner on the OL a week ago. They had to cut Na'Shan Goddard, a rookie OT they like, to make room for defensive depth. The Jets picked him up shortly thereafter.
The folks in NFL merchandizing must hold their breaths every time Shockey & Urlacher collide.
Freddie Robbins should get a look for the Pro Bowl this year. /homer
incorrect horsecollar call.
They finally call a horsecollar and it's not a horsecollar? WTF?!
Wow, two horse collar tackles called on the same day. It's amazing.
Phantom horsecollar on Tiki.
The officials have gone flag-happy tonight.
Now that was a bad call.
Hey Mellencamp, take some advice from Neil Young.
Artist: Neil young
Song: This Note's For You
Album: This Note's For You
don't want no cash
don't need no money
ain't got no stash
this note's for you.
ain't singin' for pepsi
ain't singin' for coke
i don't sing for nobody
makes me look like a joke
this note's for you.
ain't singin' for miller
don't sing for bud
i won't sing for politicians
ain't singin' for spuds
this note's for you.
don't need no cash
don't want no money
ain't got no stash
this note's for you.
i've got the real thing
i got the real thing, baby
i got the real thing
Not surprisingly, with Petitgout out, the Giants are running almost exclusively to their right. Why haven't the Bears figured this out yet?
Ha, Eli suckered Lovie into wasting his last challenge.
Once again, Whitfield sucks. That probably killed the drive.
The Giants need to have a back chip Alex Brown before Eli gets killed.
LOL, the giants are looking for major trouble passing while giving whitfield no help.
Giants are getting seriously lucky on these fumbles.
ya might want to give Whitfield some help over there, he's not looking that sharp.
Is it really a problem if Pettigout is out? Can't the Giants just get their false start penalties from someone else?
How the heck did Tiki get any yardage out of that?
Sweet merciful crap. Didn't anybody watch the San Francisco game last season?
Did anybody not see that coming?
Whitfield looks more like a lineman's grandmother rather than an actual lineman.
I refuse to acknowledge the previous play actually happened.
Wow, that was an amazing return
sweet jesus that was pathetic. fuck.
Why isn't the Bears' special teams going to continue to play at their present level?
Why should anyone kick a FG > 50 yards against Chicago anymore?
That was a pretty bad ass play.
Stupid play call on 3rd & 15 leads to disastrous FG return for TD. Coughlin really never thinks these things through.
wow. Terrible by the Giants, who didn't see that coming?
Maybe Bears will keep that special teams DVOA high all season (how does DVOA treat that? does it count at all for Bears?).
Coughlin should have punted.
it was sooooo obvious that he was going to run it out, I hope the Giants failed to tackle him due to lack of speed and skill as opposed to being fooled by that fake.
Ok here's a running commentary of my thoughts during the last play:
"A 52-yard field goal? Seems kind of long, and you'll still be down by 1 if you make it. Better to punt. Down the middle, oh, didn't quite make it. Hey, Hester caught the ball. WATCH OUT, HE COULD RUN IT! THE BEARS HAD THIS EXACT PLAY A WHILE BACK! Oh, he takes off, he's got blockers, well that's a touchdown. Hmm, still think that kick was a good idea?"
I could be wrong, but I believe that returns of missed FGs are treated like returns of blocked FGs: too infrequent to have any predictive value, so they're ignored.
Not only do those commercials not inspire me to buy a Chevy, they make me want to join al Queda.
Also, nice call by the Bears coaching staff to make someone was back there.
And game over.
Even if the Giants manage to win this game, all the Eli bashing is deserved. And then some.
Grossman is just here to mess with our minds. That's all he wants to do.
That damn jump shot, or "ballin" whatever you want to call it, so far two Giant opponents (Hou and Chi) have been penalized for doing the same thing in some form. Pretty funny.
Where's Fnor to tell us that Grossman sucks?
For once I agree with Madden.
The jump shot sucks.
What absolute garbage by the Giants. Freaking absolute garbage.
why are they punting??????
Why. Are. You. Punting.
That may have been outside the box, but they should STILL call intentional grounding. How about really intentional, deliberate, premeditated grounding?
The Giants are still in 1st place, but the best team they've beaten is: the Eagles in a game they should have lost; or a Falcon team that apparently isn't very good; or the Cowboys when they were auditioning a new QB. Not very encouraging.
Andrea, how about a report about why Moose went to the locker room?
Do we know what games are FOX and CBS protected for Week 12? Wondering what NBA game we'll see in two weeks.
A few thoughts (from a Bears fan)
1- Barber is really good (maybe that sounds obvious but he is carrying this Giants team).
2- Great second half adjustments by the bears coaching staff.
3- Give any halfway decent NFL QB time and they play like Pro Bowlers.
4- What would Benson have done with the improved blocking in the second half? Is it fair to judge him by the atrocious first half blocking?
5- If the Giants don't get healthy how is their season going to finish?
wait..black and white cookies don't exist outside new york city? i'm confused.
B. Jacobs RB. 2 Rush, 9 yds, 2 TDs
ALL BRANDON JACOBS DOES IS SCORE TDS!!!!
Is Muhammed still out?
Didn't see the fg return, nfl gamecenter is spitting the bit. Was hester back there at the start of the play? And if so, why on earth did the giants still run the play? How do they not know their own kicker better than the bears do?
Eli's had a bad game, but Coughlin singlehandledly lost that game with the stupidest call I've ever witnessed(and I survived the Handley years).
The Giants will be fine (make the playoffs) as long as they get their D-line healthy. If they weren't playing 3rd stringers today I think they would have probably won tonight.
Jacobs is the best cheap fantasy player. Ultimate vulture.
Unless the giants get healthy soon...Rutgers is gonna be playing the only meaningful football games in Jersey this year.
187: Hester was at the line of scrimmage and then ran back to the end zone to wait for the ball before the kick. Vasher did the same last year on his 108 yard return.
#187 : Yep he was.
The Giants coaching staff is the teams own worst enemy.
1. Going for that fieldgoal
2. The three straight passes that ended with the interception when there was still ten minutes to go. (Never get away from what you do best!!, especially if its running when your qb is having a sh**** game)
I think Madden and Michaels jinxxxed the beloved NYG. They kept saying they "dominated the first half"
Both teams played like shit and the NYG took advantage of turnovers. I love this game, I just hate the announcers. Can the Bears catch a break? Injuries, weak schedule, et cetera...
As Madden, the doofus said, "You can only play the teams on your schedule"
They could go 3-0 on this trip, they really could.
Oh and Michaels, the Bears looked good last week, Grossman (one man on the team) looked like ass, take his TO's out, and the bears looked good!
Lets go Bears!!!
Is anyone else crying?
Go (sob) bears.
Thx Marko and Peter. The Vasher play was perhaps excusable on novelty value, but to have scouted it (I assume) and then to walk right into it anyway out of pure stubbornness is...Coughlinian.
Anybody else sick of hearing about how "both sides of the ball had more emotion"?
Frankly I think the Bears defense played better in the first half - especially on the touchdown drive where Brandon Jacobs could have run for 10000000000 yards for the touchdown and Tiki Barber suddenly woke up. Yeah I suppose they were suprised by actual runs - but still.
What a weird ***** game. I don't think I've cussed at my team so much in a game they've won.
Oh wait. Cleveland. 2001. I wish there were DVOA splits on a game like that.
Haha, Paytonrules. I also cursed a lot tonight and during the Cleveland game in 2001. Also at the end of the game in Tampa in 2001, which also was a Bears win.
My only question about this game is why didn't the Giants blitz Grossman relentlessly? That seems the only way to beat the Bears - by pressuring Grossman into self-destructing. Even if they give up a few big plays, it's probably worth it.
#193... I agree 100%. The Giants lost the game because the coach made those two idiotic decisions, plus the secondary was abysmal. Eli didn't play well, but he wasn't the reason they lost.
Meanwhile, idiots on sports radio keep talking about the Hester play as if it was the last play of the game. It going to be a long week for the Giants.
Jeremiah - I think that, once Madison went out, they didn't trust their nickel back enough to blitz.
114: Maybe they just hate the one dude's wife.
The best thing that could happen to the Giants, is for Madison to go out. His stats upon leaving 4 completions in 5 attempts for 80 yards a score, and an illegal contact. Madison is done.
If Madison is done, why did they let Will Peterson walk?
The NY defense was porous at best, before and after Madison went out. This wasn't a two play game, the Giants couldn't pass, turned the ball over multiple times, and couldn't defend the pass. This was not that close.
#206... The Giants had the ball at the Bears' 29 yard line on 1st & 10 with 11 minutes left to go in the game. They were down 4 points at that time. The Bears force a fumble on first down that drives the ball back 14 yards! Coughlin idiotically decides to attempt a 50+ yard FG into that end (which is nearly impossible in Giants Stadium). Forget the Hester play. If Feely misses the kick, the Bears would have great field position. If you punt, the worst that happens is the Bears start out on the 20 yard line. If you're down 4 with 10 minutes late, you do that. You don't attempt a long FG INTO THE WIND!
I'm getting that sick feeling...when your start to realize that your favorite team is probably not going to win the championship.
The season ain't over yet, but with the poor quarterback play, a billion injuries and weird coaching, it's going to be beyond herculean for the Giants to even make the Superbowl.
just got bazck from watching the game with friends at a bar.
responding to: "Why didn't the giants know about that play?"
I'm actually not sure why more teams don't do it. How many times do you see teams try long field goals at the end of a half? What's the downside to having a guy back there to return the kick in that instance?
Granted, time wasn't running out on the half or the game, so it was a little bit gutsy for the Bears to run it out instead of take the great field position, but then again, if you've got a great returner like that, he's never going to have a better chance than against a field goal unit which isn't really built to cover returns.
What surprises me more than Coughlin kicking the field goal (which I actually don't consider a dumb move) is that the guys in the kick team didn't get down to cover with a little more urgency. As soon as Hester catches the ball, he's comitted to running it out, since the coaches are going to kill him if he gives up field position close to mid field and then takes a knee.
Coughlin took the blame after the play, but seriously, what were some of those guys thinking about?
Also: Bad Eli looks a lot like Bad Rex. I thought no one looked like Bad Rex except Bad Kurt (Warner) and genuinely bad quarterbacks.
Am I the only one who sees the humor in posts 207 and 208 being next to each other? If fans come out of the game losing hope for the season, am I really supposed to think the game was about to be won?
Also... fumble recoveries may be random, but forcing them isn't, and neither is getting sacks. I'm sorry Eli doesn't hold on to the ball very well, or the Giants o-line couldn't protect him.
I also don't think the field goal attempt was stupid; the Giants were down 4. That's a touchdown or two field goals for the win. If Coughlin punts it (into those SWIRLING WINDS!) and it lands in the endzone, he gained 14 yards of field position.
I'm quite certain that if he had punted, and the Giants had gotten back into FG range, the point would have been made about 2938928 times that they could have been leading if they had hit a 52 yarder earlier instead of gaining 14 yards of field position. It was an aggressive call, I'm not sure I would have made it, but it's entirely reasonable.
#210... you obviously fail to see what the downside of the missed FG is (assuming it isn't run back 108 yards for a TD). It gives the Bears GREAT field position. When there's 11:35 left to go and the end zone you're kicking it into is notorious for being difficult on long (even medium) kicks, there's no reason to be so aggressive. People who watch games at the Meadowlands on a regular basis should know that end of the field is tough on long FG attempts. Nick Saban lost a game earlier this season against the Jets because he played for the long FG into that end against the Jets. Olinde Mare came up woefully short and that was a month ago on a clear afternoon. Is it a coincidence that Feely missed the FG at that end, yet made his other two attempts?
Why did Coughlin make that decision? It's not as if they couldn't move the ball on the Bears. They had just finished running the ball down the Bears' throats two straight drives.
#209... I don't even blame the Giants for coverage on the Hester play. If you looked at the replay, you notice only 1 skill position player on the field for NYG, a backup TE. The other 10 players were offensive linemen, a kicker, and a punter. They weren't stopping Hester there.
That leads me right back to Coughlin. Down 11 points with 10 WHOLE MINUTES LEFT isn't the time to go to the no-huddle offense. The Giants had just run the ball all over the Bears two straight drives. RUN SOME MORE. Going to the no-huddle with an o-line that couldn't pass block and a struggling QB was just terrible coaching. Coughlin lost the Giants this game.
"Is it a coincidence that Feely missed the FG at that end, yet made his other two attempts?"
He also missed another field goal, after the first drive of the game. It was at the same end of the field as the fatal missed field goal was.
I don't think the Giants were in a no-huddle offense on the drive you are talking about. There was one play where they tried to hurry up, but that was in an attempt to get off a play before the Bears could challenge a play where the Giants receiver caught a pass just inbounds. (The Bears challenged before they Giants got the play off, but the play stood as called.)
Andrea, how about a report about why Moose went to the locker room?
I can answer that question. I'm in Sweden for work and stayed up late to watch the game. We were getting some weird feed that didn't cut to commercials and would stay at the stadium. You could hear the (minimal) conversation between Al and John (normally it was just Al saying "Ok" to whoever was talking in his earpiece). But Andrea came on and said he had to go to the bathroom. Al made some joke about I guess if you have to go. John said it was weird that he left when the Bears were so close to scoring. But they never did share that over the actual broadcast.
The Giants have a TON of injuries!!, especially now with the left tackle out. Fans should be ready to accept that the season could go south in a hurry.
I need some analysis from the footballousiders crew on the Bears Run D - which seems to have gone south in the last 3 weeks without Mike Brown.
I think it's that the Bears are blitzing a lot more lately, putting their mediocre safetys in a tough spot. It showed today where Tiki Barber looked like Deshaun Foster - a few awesome carries, and a ton of nothing.
But the Every Play Counts guys (okay Ned) don't drink while they watch - so they can give better analysis :)
This question was probably answered last year, but where does a 108-yard missed field goal for touchdown get factored into DVOA?
Bill Simmons has still been wrong on every NYG game this year against the number. Keep em' coming, Bailout Billy.
Was I the only person who watched Devin Hester backpeddling into the endzone on the 51 yard figgie attempt, and thought, okay, here comes a likely TD return?
We get the same feed for the MNF games every week (I could watch it next day with Hungarian commentary, but that is even worse than the original. Imagine that).
It is funny sometimes, you hear them during the commercial break discuss what had happened on the field.
Also, I generally can't stand announcers, but when they were talking about how that was a' "NO! NO!...GO! GO!" play, I had to laugh, because that was my exact reaction.
Ned does Any Given Sunday. MDS does the EPC, and given some of the players and units he writes about, it wouldn't surprise me if he drank to get through the terrible play. :) Hopefully his liver is strong enough for the eventual EPC on the Raiders O-line.
PANTHERS - BUCS
Monday Night Football!
I hear that Henning likes the score as it is and is going to try to play for the 0-0 tie.
That's not funny because it's true.
That said: Hey, WR corps(e)? Let's try not to revert to Seattle 2k4 this week...
are you ready for some football?
Actually, not really.
Am I the only one who thinks Galloway should easily have caught that bomb? Even if he had to dive a little bit, it was certainly within reach.
If Torrie Cox is playing man coverage on Steve Smith tonight, it's going to be a long game for Bucs fans.
Hell, they should be doubling him on every play.
Aaron always says that NE is the only team that has two top 5 players in the NFL on their team, one on each side of the ball, but what do you guys think about Carolina? Are Peppers and Smith top 5? Top 10? I don't really know.
I found a streaming online radio feed. Click my name.
Carolina just fumbled. Tampa Bay recovered and they'll have good position.
So what, there's a football game on tonight?
I don't care who wins this game so i'm going to pull for the Pittsburgh guy.
Which current NFL streak is more annoying to hear about every week:
A. Chris Gardocki has never had a punt blocked.
B. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have never returned a kickoff for a touchdown.
Of course, we may not have to hear about B much longer as Tampa makes a trip to Heinz Field in three weeks.
If Tampa Bay wins tonight, it'll be official: nobody knows nothin' about the NFL.
I missed the start of the game can anyone tell me who is playing linebacker for the Panthers?
Someone needs to tell Bruce Gradkowski that the black goes under the eyes, not over.
Who had Jeff Gordon? Jeff Gordon is the answer.
The announcer has just said that it was the same as the call in the bears giants game last night except that the call went in entirely the opposite way last night. The only similarity is that there was a fumbled ball and it got reviewed.
Jeff Gordon is a Nascar driver? I thought he was a Cereal box model.
What does it take for refs to throw a flag against a Carolina opponent in Charlotte?
I entirely agree with Theisman, that does look like a good waffle iron.
You can never go wrong with waffles.
I live in England and have no idea how to make waffles. Whenever I go to the US I try to eat waffles every morning. To me waffles represent everything that is good about america.
Peppers is abusing Trueblood.
It looks like the Panthers offensive players aren't buying into the system anymore.
Really? I only noticed the one sack. Otherwise, Trueblood seems to be winning more than he's losing. Was 1 on 1 on that last 3rd and long play.
2 sacks so far by peppers
Henning sucks. Why can't we get rid of that old senile fool?
Nice group celebration.
Peppers has two sacks and it is not sa though the Bucs are using seven step drops.
Is it me, or does Tampa go through the same thing every year?
They start the season optimistic because of the steady improvement their QB showed throughout the previous season. However, he winds up struggling under the complexity of Gruden's offense before being lost for the season to injury.
Forced to go to a less experienced QB, they pare down the playbook, start running more, and the offense immediately improves enough that they become infatuated with the new QB and jettison their former starter in the offseason. Then, they start the next season optimistic about their chances due to the steady improvement their QB showed throughout the previous season...
That's twice that Keyshawn's taken a dive to draw a late hit penalty (the first was unsuccessful). The problem isn't rampant, but is there a mechanism to fine him for it?
I'm sorry. This isn't the mother-friggin World Cup. Flopping should be an unsportsmanlike conduct in football...
The NFL needs to take a stand against blatant diving, it has ruined soccer for me.
I know there are plenty that say "it's a smart play". No, it's a jack-hole play. The TB defender does what every defender does, tries to stop Keyshawn's momentum.... I guess Keyshawn is who we thought he was.
Independent George (251)- good call.
After the FG I read this:
1st-10, Tampa Bay 44
B. Gradkowski rushed up the middle for 6 yard gain. B. Gradkowski fumbled. J. Peppers recovered fumble
Whoa! What happened?
~ 9 min in 3rd Quarter.
Good non-call on the forceout. I like it. I think even though Keyshawn got his elbow down, the ball was moving around when he hit the ground.
253: That is essentially the same penalty as soccer calls for (yellow card). The problem in both games is that the refs on the field have trouble catching real flops and not imagining fake ones. The better answer would be some sort of fine/suspension system based on tape review, but that isn't going to happen.
Did they get charged with a timeout?! That's the dumbest review ever. Or was that delay because ESPN prematurely went to commercial.
ESPNs production is HORRIBLE. They miss easy replays to promote things and run their stupid video montages BETWEEN plays. I wanted to know why the refs blew an offsides call dead... but we never got to see if contact was made on the line.
They didn't say anything about losing a timeout. I'm thinking Fox just asked if he could review that part of the play and was told no.
The first late hit wasn't a dive. I hate diving too, but I think Keyshaun was trying to make up for the one that wasn't called.
Wow. What a blatant hold on Peppers that wasn't called.
This thread is dead as a doornail.
don't care. i'll take a win, regardless of who it's over.
thank god henning FINALLY went for the shotgun on the goal line. it only took him 9 fucking games into the season...
263: yeah, it was even more blatant than the facemask that they called on kemo.
3 Sacks by Peppers and a fumble recovery.
Steve Young had a good analysis after the game talking about how all the play action passes screws up Delhomme.
As actual NFL football returns to our lives, we have observations on good quarterback play in Dallas, bad quarterback play in Denver, the Olympics, baseball, taxes, and mermaids.
See All XP | NFL XP | College XP
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties