Talk amongst yourselves
PDF VERSION NOW AVAILABLE
Click here to buy PDF version.
Click here to buy PDF version
Official Account: @fboutsiders
Scott Kacsmar: @FO_ScottKacsmar
Ben Muth: @FO_WordofMuth
Aaron Schatz: @FO_ASchatz
Vince Verhei: @FO_VVerhei
-- plus --
Bill Connelly: @SBN_BillC
J.J. Cooper: @jjcoop36
Cian Fahey: @Cianaf
Brian Fremeau: @bcfremeau
Tom Gower: @ThomasGower
Rivers McCown: @RiversMcCown
Chad Peltier: @CGPeltier
Matt Waldman: @MattWaldman
Rob Weintraub: @robwein
This thread is for discussion of action on the field during and after Week 12 Monday Night Football between Seattle and the Green Bay Brett Favre and 52 Other Guys.
is there a certain requirement favre has to reach to keep the consecutive starts streak alive? For example, in baseball u have to play until the middle of the fifth inning (i think) to get that game as part of your consecutive game streak. Does favre just have to play one snap or does he have to go a period of time? And if he only has to play one snap, favre could go out there with any type of injury do a direct snap to the running back and then go off the field. As long as the packers don't mind giving up a roster spot.
No. I remember a game vs the Vikings where Favre was knocked out in the first quarter, in the first series or two I think. This was in the first half of the 90s.
Besides, as we all know his streak is only a record for quarterbacks, I think Feagles or some other punter has the record now, and there are a number of position players like Jim Marshall (282 games not counting playoffs) still well ahead of him.
Apropos of nothing, I'd just like to mention that in order to make Philip Rivers their starter the Chargers have given up a #1 overall pick and a front-runner for league MVP.
And the scary part is....it's working!
Why do I get the feeling that Kurt Cobain in his current state would be a better in booth guest than whoever they are going to drag in tonight?
I hope they bring in Courtney Love!
1: Favre just has to be the QB on the first snap of the game to keep his starting streak alive. And in baseball, for a consecutive game streak to remain alive, you have to either have a plate appearance or play a half inning on defense. Appearing as a pinch runner would not qualify.
You're confused about having to play until the middle of the fifth inning, probably because of the hoopla made over Cal Ripken in the middle of the fifth inning when he broke the record for consecutive games played. That only happened because the game became official at that point and couldn't be rained out. If the game had been rained out before it became official, all of the statistics would have been wiped out - nothing would have counted, and Ripken wouldn't receive credit for playing in the game (since the game no longer existed).
You know what would make this game better?
If they were playing in this snow on real grass instead of that pansy fake stuff.
Boo fake stuff.
Thiesmann: "Hasselbeck's knee isn't exactly where they want it to be."
I wonder where it could be. My money is on somewhere near inside his abdomen.
IRC. Channel #FO. Server bendenweyr.dyndns.org.
Bobby Wade sucks.
Better to have Field Turf than to have sand pit grass or artificial turf.
Hrm... Studio guest... I'm thinking a former seahawk... hey've already done Bozworth... maybe Largent?
We want Ichiro!
All this man-love for Brett is just too much for me.
We went to dinner before the storm hit about 2 miles from my house. It took almost an hour to get home. I thought I was going to miss kick off.
Although, seeing how this game has started, I'm wishing I had missed the beginning.
It's gonna be Jimmy Kimmel. He was on Monday Night Countdown with Berman and Co. and they said he was going to be in the booth later tonight.
Jimmy Kimmel might be the worst one yet.
You know another thing I love about TVU Player?
If the ESPN US feed isn't available, the ESPN Asia feed is, and THAT feed doesn't have really annoying commercials featuring Mellencamp or Dodge Nitro.
Suzy Kolber must think we're all idiots. You can tell just by the way the players are running that the field is atleast somewhat slick. And her sliding one foot around on the ground doens't prove that the field isn't slick. Why don't you making a cut on that Suzy.
Joey Sunshine swagger count so far=1
Can he be worse than Arnold Schwarzenegger, who talked about what a miracle Art Shell was performing with the Raiders? There have been some other really awful guests, so I think the bar to be the worst is pretty high (or low, depending on your perspective).
And Hasselbeck is outFavreing Favre so far.
I know we all like to rip on ESPN's coverage, but I just noticed that their graphic before each play is showing the yard line, which it never did before. It looks like they added it because otherwise it is impossible to figure out what the yard line is because of the snow on the field. So props to them for that tonight.
Int, Int, Fumble, Fumble...and it's only the first quarter?
Some very pretty football we're seeing here.
21 - they actually said that they were going to do that for that reason.
Looks like the snow is slowing down. I hope it picks back up so I can stay home tomorrow.
does anyone else think the seahawks should have signed alexander to the long contract during last season so they could have started prorating that huge bonus on last year's cap hit? Strike that, they should have signed Hutchinson.
Oh, I get it...they're playing Pearl Jam when breaking to and coming back from commercial because the game is in Seattle! Oh!!!!!
For the record, I do like Pearl Jam, but I think there may possibly have been a few other well-known bands from that city.
Am I the only one that has a problem with Andy Reid only speaking to Brett Favre when he was the QB coach at Green Bay?
You're the QUARTERBACK coach. Not the Brett Favre coach.
what about the safeties and cornerbacks having separate meetings with the Redskins? that is lunacy.
I haven't heard any "Brett Favre the gunslinger" comments yet, but the evening is still young.
Would any of the three stooges in the booth not sleep with Favre, given the chance? Enough already!
Now that was classic Brett Farve
#26 - The Sonics!
Ah, now theres Brett Favres first gunsling of the night.
I'm no longer convinced that NE-Chi will have the most turnovers this week...
Aaaaaannnddd....INT for Favre.
As TMQ would say, we're all professionals here.
Aaaannnd...Holmgren is dismayed.
Hassleback is doing his best to honor Brett Farve.
Jumpin' Jiminy Crickets, this game is a mess. Sheesh.
Did Seattle just block the FG attempt????
"Why would you run?"
"Don't want to take the chance of a sack and a big loss. Take the sure thing."
[kick proceeds to be blocked]
Is it fate that makes Joe look stupid or is it Joe?
So, a blocked field goal counts as a turnover right? Because I'm still hoping the game manages to have more turnovers than points (as a consolation prize, I'll take more turnovers and non-lost fumbles greater than points scored).
When Green Bay took over after the pick Joe Theisman said, and I quote:
"The Green Bay Packers have to get 6 right here."
As they're lining up to settle for the field goal Theisman rambles on about how this is okay and defends running a draw play on 3rd and goal from the 16 by saying, "Take the safe play and take the three points."
I'm going to start writing down all of the times Joe Theisman contradicts himself over the course of a game.
The resulting text will be longer than the bible.
And I think I stole that from somebody else, so if you said that, I credit you. Whoever you are.
well, a little from column A, a little from column B :D
Are you serious? That pass hit Hackett in the hands and he still dropped it.
Joe: "Now he has to check and see if his heart is still beating."
I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure that if you have to check if your heart is still beating, it's probably too late.
dammit, i was really rooting for hasselbeck to make it 4 picks in the half.
RE: 44 That's how you get to be the number five receiver on a team...
I wonder if Joe Theisman analyzes everything in his life like he analyzes football during the broadcasts.
For example, when he's eating dinner, does he say something like:
"This steak is extremely tough and difficult to chew, I spoke with the executive chef last night and he said the key to a good steak is making sure that you cook it the way you want it and i'm really seeing that with this steak and how tender it is."
"How's your leg...?"
Now that was actually pretty funny...
It looks like it got slightly tipped at the last second. Yeah, an NFL receiver should catch that, but that was not a Falcons WR type of drop.
Am I dreaming or is Jimmy Kimmel talking about his BBQ grill?
Joe is trying to charm Jimmy with his disarming stupidity.
If it's snowing it's about 32 degrees......
Yeah, Joe, that's the temperature water freezes at. Thanks for the insight.
Are Mike Holmgren and Andy Reid actually twins separated at birth? Discuss.
I wasn't sure if Joe would top the Jordan line from last week, but the bit where he said that Hasselbeck wanted to be hit and it was a good thing was just deranged. I think LT broke his brain.
Crap!! The sound on my TV just went out and I'm missing the freekin' Jimmy K interview. Ha, Ha, that Jimmy K is hilarious. I laugh when I just watch his mouth move. I'm reading lips, but did he just say something about sixteen guys at his house and Joe then ask him what his favorite meat is?
Did you guys know that Brett Farve has started 232 straight games?
Did you know he is consistent and reliable?
Hey, Seattle's field goal unit is having an excellent night, and that ain't bad in weather like that.
how does kimmel do the interview with simmons attached to his lap?
Please tell me i'm not the only one that laughed out loud at post #56.
bwhahaha... god, that was funny to watch happen.
From what I've seen the only good thing in this game is Josh Brown.
But I guess you can't spend 3 hours talking about a field goal kicker.
omg best looking pick-6 EVER
Would 8 interceptions in a game be a record? How about for a winning team?
Nah, I laughed out loud too. Its more fun reading this and the live blog at pro football talk then listening to the game.
I ROLL with Hasselbeck?
Holgmgren in da hood?
That's actually a decent point about Favre stepping into a hit; this season I've seen about a zillion younger players backpedal and fling the ball up under similar circumstances (Grossman, Eli, Delhomme, Palmer, Roethlisberger come to mind).
Here's hoping that Hasselbeck has a short memory. Y'know, Wallace couldn't be any worse, and in weather like this, having a qb who can run like hell is a distinct advantage.
Uh, did that just bounce off the receiver's knee?
Jerramy Stevans has no balls.
Hey, if that's a penalty, it has to be PI; I mean, the ball was definitely in the air...
what a pathetic game
Okay, really, if they started speaking about Josh Brown for the next 2 hours, I'd be happier than this. And Brown deserves it.
This team is going to be the death of me. On the other hand, we're only down by 2. It could have been a LOT worse.
How did you know?
Sounded like Berman just said, "Welcome back to Seattle. It never snows here, except in winter."
Anyone else here that?
This is my 12th winter here and this is the first time I've seen snow stick in November.
I'm a bit disappointed in the run defense. And the offensive line is struggling to hold any blocks. And for a guy who came from the CFL Ryan is sure having his issues punting.
Lucky for the Packers to be leading.
Can someone please make a tackle?
that extra point looked like it was wide-left to me...
That looked like improv to me. Driver and Favre have played together a long time and by the look of things both saw the same thing. Favre just flipped that out there for DD who did the rest.
To quote Borat, "Very nice!"
That looked like a really bad angle by Trufant. I guess he thought he was just much faster, but it seemed like if he had taken a deeper angle, he would have had him.
Driver has made a career out of people underestimating him.
So...if Brett Favre were a locomotive, how many boxcars could he pull?
88: All of them. Even the immobile ones.
Stevens is just way too cool to catch that ball. Just way too cool.....
87: Are you saying Driver has deceptive speed?
#91 - If he isn't, I'm sure Theismann will be happy to take care of it for you.
Yeah, Farve also said this was the most talented team he's ever played on, so his judgement is a bit suspect.
No. Just that when folks talk about the really good receivers you rarely hear them mention Driver. The guy plays every game, he catches anything catchable, and is a great teammate.
'Bout time Manuel did something positive on a football field.
Did Kornheiser just refer to "an esoteric statistic called strength of dick"?
Some sample genius from the Seattle board on ESPN:
".... Alexander can rush for 300 yards against green bays crappy defense and it wont matter unless he scores lol ."
Reply: "As long as we win I am happy. As of right now, I am not happy. So I could care less if Alexander runs for 100 yds and scores 3 TD."
Maybe ESPN's "dumb" approach to covering the NFL is just a case of inspired audience targeting.
Kamir kbjajja kabirjajamilla just got hurt.
Tell me you didn't expect Hackett to drop that.....
Tony was talking about strength of victory, not strength of dick.
RE: 99 Thanks, I was hoping I heard that wrong, and that he wasn't talking about Favre again.
oh hey, a catch! that's novel. in the end zone, no less, by a guy wearing the right jersey.
Actually, I think they were saying that Favre is such a great QB, that if he were a double hand amputee, he could still win the game by throwing the ball with his pecker.
I feel a TMQ moment coming on...
They sent to Steve into the box as a reliever.
They're even making substitiutions in the press box.
Producer: "Theismann's losing it again...get in there Steve!"
What's disheartening is that the team continues to be bullied. They were shoved around last week by the Pats and the same thing is happening tonight. And it's happened other times during the season.
I think the Packers' front seven is officially worn down....
McCarthy has tried to play ball control but Tauscher being out hurts. Moll just cannot run block like Mark. And several times he has been shoved back into Favre's face on pass-blocking. NOt that anyone else has been great shakes either.
Atleast this has turned out to be a decent Monday Night Game for once.
Sloppy in the first half, but it's 27-21 with 11 minutes left. Beggers can't be choosers.
The "Favre is just having fun out there" line in 3, 2, 1 ........
The two-point conversion there, while the right call, was the kind of thing that I didn't expect out of Holmgren (he's very close to the vest normally).
William Krasker's chart says up 4 points with 15 minutes you need to have a higher than 51% chance of converting the 2-pointer.
So given that 2-pointers work 60% of the time, it is the right call. I'm just surprised Holmgren did it.
I understand I am in the minority and will be perceived as a homer but Number 4 has played pretty well tonight.
So when you score more points, you're more likely to win, and when you don't score many points, you're more likely to lose?
PUT THEM IN A DRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm with you, Badger. The backlash against #4 has been at least as tiresome as the hype.
Kiwanuka doesn't seem so stupid, now does he?
#112 - Thanks Tally. You're a real timesaver!
Stevens really sucks
Wow. Cullen Jenkins was pulling up for heaven's sake.
Favre has taken multiple shots worse then that tonight. And notice I wrote nothing. because there was nothing to write about.
If Stevens could catch, the Hawks would be up by at least 14.
If Holmgren was going to call timeout there, why didn't he challenge the play and say Stevens caught the ball? All he's risking is the timeout he's going to spend anyway, and although it's unlikely that he'd win a challenge, stranger things have happened.
"And Mike's going to challenge this.."
Yeah, but doesn't Mike pretty much challenge everything?
because he was saving his challenge to throw away by challenging the spot on third and inches.
oh god, horrible roughing call there... the qb protection rules have really gone too far.
Given a coach who is willing to get in his face, Favre is still an upper-echelon qb. Thta last completion to Driver was simply an outstanding throw, and he has shown several times tonight what value there is in having a guy who is still elusive in the pocket, or can execute a roll- out, unlike, say, a certain qb who is lionized for "managing" games about 300 miles due west.
The Packers D is pretty much gassed.....
I think it's a shame that the NFL is grooming an entire generation of wussbag QB's with these insane reactive "rules."
It's like the NFL turned into the mother of the boy in the bubble that wants to eliminate tag and dodgeball because little Timmy might get hurt.
Is there a point where it is legal to tackle a ref? That was a pretty poor call against Jenkins.
yet another game ruined by pathetic roughing the passer call.
haha, way to remember how to catch the ball, Jerramy.
Look, Green Bay is overmatched tonight. That is pretty clear by inspection as well as the stat sheet.
The defense managed a stop but the fates said, "Nah, let's get this game over with right now." And the defense couldn't suck it up one more time.
that throw looked like an older Grossman!
For any Packer fans around let's not comment on the obvious penalty. After viewing yesterday's thread with Rich somebody posting about 30 times about the refs (after earlier mocking people doing the same) I urge fellow posters, particularly Packer posters, to comment briefly and let it go.
It is clear that penalties are now "random". And that stating the obvious does not add anything to the conversation.
â€œthis (int) is just Brett trying to make a playâ€?.
I mean, thatâ€™s so much better than those interceptions where the qb was trying to give it awayâ€¦.
"...you don't expect him to change now..."
Oh God forbid, no!
Another gunsling for Favre.
I guess this is Brett favre's "Barney Fife" stylee gunslinger mode.
Green Bay 24
Glad to know folks who hung around waiting to trot out their best Favre taunts have seen their patience rewarded.
My concern from this game is the disintegration of the run defense, not Number 4.
But I understand that many want to see him leave. And fail miserably as he exits.
Curious behavior. But to each his or her own.
Why the hell did they give Alexander 40 carries anyway? Isn't that what the backup is for, running out the clock?
Badger - the taunts are more about the commentary than Favre.
I don't want to see Brett Favre fail. As a semi-disinterested fan of an AFC team I was actually pulling for Green Bay tonight.
But Joe Theisman and Tony Kornheiser had their hands in their pants all night everytime they mentioned Brett Favres name.
138, yeah, that was about the booth guys, not Brett. I got most of my Favre pickings on out of my system last year...
I really, really don't care about this game. Really. If anything, I'm for Seattle (fantasy reasons), but this is just plain stupid.
139: Holmgren wants Alexander to regret coming back from his injury. Either that or he's giving Herm Edwards lessons in how to overuse a running back.
In the mammoth post Super Bowl thread pertaining to the officiating, I suggested, only half in jest, that offensive holding calls simply be called on a random basis, by pulling a ball out of a bingo-style hopper every few minutes, and I got ripped pretty good by some folks. I will now suggest that roughing and pi calls be added to the hopper, and it is less in jest than before.
I'm disappointed in the refs not because I'm a packer fan, but I just wanted to see a good close.
sorry, that didn't read right. I'm not a packer fan.
Is the fact that they were up by more than one score excuse not falling down once the ball was turned over?
As for the officiating I really wonder what folks expect. You have older men trying to oversee the action of a game played by athletes operating at a speed that few of us can even begin to appreciate.
This isn't baseball where the calls are mostly objective. Due to the regular contact between the participants the calls are almost all SUBJECTIVE. And hence, prone to be wrong.
Excluding the obvious objective penalties such as offsides, illegal procedure, delay of game, and formation penalties I doubt even half of the actual subjective penalties are called correctly in a football game.
Too much contact, too fast a pace, and too many "unwritten" rules about what should be called and what is not tossing in directives from the league about the latest cause celebre.
Holmgren whines about the officials when they cost him a game so does he whine when they give him one like tonight?
Didn't watch this game, but I've been all over the officials since last year.
Welcome to the bandwagon everyone... although I think we are still waiting for the media to hop on.
I haven't really been keeping a running tally of RAW... (Ref Aided Wins) this year.
Off the top of my head:
Tampa Bay over Cincinatti... roughing the passer on final TD drive.
Cleveland over New York...
Officials decided to ignore the force-out rule.
Ravens over Titans... Titans recover a fumble, except they don't because officials rule "not clear who recovered".
Browns over Raiders... the Raiders got a clear first down in the 4th quarter, except the officials marked it 2 yards short. As usual, Art Shell fails to challenge.
Rams over Cardinals... officials allowing the Rams to decline a penalty after accepting it. We missed the oppurtunity to see a 77 yard fair catch free kick.
Eagles over 49ers... Patterson not being down after picking up the ball in a pile of bodies. There were also some other calls in this game.
San Diego over Oakland...
More debatable since the call occurred before the game was done.
Dallas over Indianpolis...
I'm pretty sure the guy who returned the pick for a TD was down by contact. Dungy could've challenged.
Other plays that officials have bungled.
Steelers - Raiders... they gave the Steelers 5 downs.
That Roughing the Passer call was disgusting. There was another on on Peppers in the Panthers game which called back an interception. Absolutely clean hit, no question about it.
Really, with this and the stupid celebration rule I think the NFL is starting to lose me. Way too many games decided by bad Roughing the passer calls this year on clean hits.
I think this new commissioner is an idiot and an asshole. They needed to bring in someone from the outside who hasn't lived his ENTIRE life brown-nosing football executives.
If games continue this way I can see myself losing interest in football over the next couple of years. I use to be a huge baseball fan but I don't even know who won the World Series this year for the same reason. The NFL has a Golden Egg and they're about to break it.
Some takes from a Packer Backer.
1. I don't know what a penalty is anymore. Some of the calls on Denby were suspect at best. The penalty that set-up 1st and goal leaps to mind. The roughing the passer call against Jenkins was absolutely atrocious.
2. What is a "football move"? In the 3rd Q, Stevens receives the ball, tucks it and turns. Takes a step, gets hit and fumbles. Ruling? Incomplete.
3. I am very concerned about the run defense as well as the ability of the Packers to pressure with only four.
4. The ST units are just frightening.
5. Why did the Packers keep running left? IMO, they never did establish any sort of running threat. Green broke a couple, but not consistent enough to prolong any drives and give the D a rest.
6. Morency seems to be slipping. His complete inability to set-up his blockers needs to be improved upon.
I spend most of my time surfing Sunday Ticket with my family, so I don't get the chance to watch the games the ways I'd like, but these items leapt out at me last night.
Stomping the Jags leaves Washington No. 2 behind only Denver. But what can we really learn from one big win early in the season, before we are applying opponent adjustments?
See All XP | NFL XP | College XP
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties