Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 13 Game Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion of action on the field before, during, and after Week 13 of the 2006 NFL season. You can talk about who you think will win or lose before the games start and last-minute news on Sunday morning. Then during the games, discuss strange plays, great performances, and stupid announcers (of which there are plenty). After the day is done, we'll discuss the results of the week Sunday night and Monday before our weekly commentary articles appear.

A separate thread will go up Sunday night for discussion during the Sunday and Monday night games. (Actually, it is already up, becuse Aaron will be in Philadelphia on Sunday.)

Please ask your fantasy football start/bench and waiver wire questions in the discussion thread for Scramble for the Ball.


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Comments

1
by Kyle, Louisville (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 3:56pm

Bengals: 27
Ravens: 17

2
by Mnatr (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 8:47pm

If you believe some of the sports media, the Giants are imploding.

Yeah, they aren't handling the press well, but they managed to get up 21-0 on the Titans, and only lost because of some truly improbable events. I wouldn't worry too much about anything but getting their best players healthy.

Yes, I just rebutted a stupid mainstream sports theory of the week, which is like playing tether-ball against a 5 year-old, but I needed to get it off my chest.

3
by el plaga (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:14pm

i'm hearing bad weather in the forecast so take the under.

Also, i watched that bengals ravens game from a month ago on nfln, and yeah ray lewis got ran over by rudi in the end zone but that was like two plays after he got kneed in the back by ed reed, cut him some slack, and yes this is a run on sentence i apologize.

Also i need that arbitrary td from you chris henry for fantasy purposes

4
by andrew (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:31pm

The NFL network doesn't have an HD version does it... dangit. Hard going back... though not having the espn crew makes up for a lot...

5
by Fnor (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:34pm

For all 5 of you that will actually get the game, IRC will be open in channel #FO on server bendenweyr.dyndns.org.

Most of us can't watch it, but at least we can all make fun of Pats fans!

6
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:36pm

Is the game only on NFL Network in the US? It's on TSN (aka ESPN) here in Canada. Hooray for business trips!

7
by andrew (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:55pm

Thought the NFL network had wider coverage... I guess their plan is this will cause angry calls to cable companies forcing more to carry it or something....

8
by Moridin (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:57pm

You know, I figured since the nfl network is listed in my channel list twice, the other one would be HD, but I checked after andrew's comments, and I think comcast just has the channel twice... That's just weird.

9
by andrew (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:04pm

Apparently there is an NFL Network HD, and its available only via Dish network (like any NFL fan I went with DirecTV sunday ticket) and Verizon's FIOS.

10
by andrew (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:07pm

Spoke too soon. DirecTV has it in HD, channel 95. wooha!

11
by B (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:08pm

Is it me, or is Bryant Gumble really insipid? I suppose he makes Wayne Brady look like Malcom X though, so it's all good.

12
by B (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:10pm

With Dungy always calls plays like that, no wonder Manning audibles out of everything. (Yes, I know the OC calls the plays for the Colts, but it's my joke.)

13
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:16pm

Ugly series for Baltimore. As usual, McNair is unaware of the playclock and let it run down. Then they had 2nd and 15, and a run up the middle is followed by a short dumpoff. The idea is to get a first down, Steve.

14
by Travis (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:18pm

Re: 8, 9

NFL Network games should be in HD on DirecTV channel 95.

15
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:20pm

I haven't listened to him in years; Gumbel has a terrible broadcast voice, doesn't he? It's bad enough that he has nothing to say, and it's worse that he says it in a kinda' whiny way. At least his brother's timbre doesn't irritate the eardrums.

No wonder his mother can't (or couldn't) stand to be around him.

16
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:20pm

Housh makes a nice move to beat Rolle after the catch for the first down, but forgets that he needs to get the ball, not his legs, past the first down marker. Lewis challenges the spot of the ball, but I don't think it's gonna change anything.

17
by B (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:22pm

As for Gumble's question that why do fans always cheer when the home coach challenges, it's because the refs are always wrong.

18
by black (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:24pm

good call by whoever noticed how bryant gumbel always say "about a yard or two, two maybe three yards" he is never decisive.

19
by andrew (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:28pm

on the NFL network news update -- Culpepper just had surgery again? not good... I keep thinking the Vikings didn't get much for him (Ryan Cook as it turned out, who saw first action this season) but its hard to argue they got less fromm it than Miami did...

20
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:29pm

I see the plastic surgeons in Cincy do good work....

21
by B (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:35pm

How does Gumble call a TD? "Player X crosses the goal line, for five, maybe six points."

22
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:40pm

Ever since FO pointed out Samari Rolle's decline, he's really started to look bad to me. Actually no one in the Ravens secondary has made any plays tonight, except maybe the tip on that underthrown deep ball to Johnson.

Oh, and props to Johnson for calling PI on himself.

23
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:44pm

not a fan of these announcers. The racist and the bloviate.

I'm pretty sure Collinsworth called Haloti Ngata "Willie" at one point.

24
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:48pm

Why was chad johnson called for off. PI? can someone let me know what happened on that play

25
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:50pm

#24 He pushed off in the end zone. A call seen far too rarely.

26
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:54pm

I'm at someone's house who has DirecTV here in NYC, and I found the game on channel 212, but I can't find another listing for it. I guess no HDTV here.

27
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 10:56pm

#25: Thanks

28
by black (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:00pm

It doesn't look like the bengals will be able to run much, but it probably won't be needed at this rate. Palmer is just picking them apart. Chad and Housh have 13 receptions between them already.

29
by Bill (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:04pm

28 - Yeah, but they may not accomplish much if they don't actually start punching some of these drives into the endzone.

30
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:04pm

Ravens really do have a top red zone D. Bengals keep stalling.

31
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:09pm

'Crenell has the complete suport of the....'

Well, he's gone.....

32
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:09pm

Oh man, ugly injury on BJ Sams. Definitely got his foot twisted almost completely backwards.. that's gotta be a season ender.

33
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:11pm

"BJ Sams is just a player you gotta cheer for."

Yeah, how could anyone not cheer for a violent criminal? Although that does exclude a large portion of the players performing tonight...

34
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:16pm

RE: 19

They got a lot, considering he was coming off a horrible season, a horrific knee injury, and is making WAAAAY too much money. Base salaries are spiraling out of control on that deal.

35
by Opiegrey (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:20pm

RE:33

DUI is a violent crime now? Get yer facts straight.

36
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:23pm

3rd and 1 with 15 seconds left and they spike it.

Terrible call... take a shot at the end zone, you have plenty of time.

37
by admin :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:24pm

OK, everybody open your PFP 2006... look at the article in the back on which coaches are agressive on fourth down... go all the way down the table... keep going... keep going... see the guy down there at the wussy end? Yeah, that's Brian Billick.

38
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:24pm

...and then they shank the FG. Nice job, guys.

39
by B (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:25pm

35: It should be considered assault with a deadly weapon. DUI is as dangerous a crime as firing a gun randomly into the air.

40
by Bill (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:26pm

Six consecutive scoreless quarters from the Bengals defense. Weird.

41
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:27pm

We got to see some classic McNair on that drive. Let 20 seconds run off the clock, look clueless, and start jogging off the field. Ummm, run the damn play. If you're going to call a timeout, you have to call it immediately after a play. You don't line up, run clock, and then call a timeout.

By the way, Cris, the Ravens didn't win the Super Bowl in 2002. They were 7-9. How dumb are these announcers? Can't they at least know the last few Super Bowl winners?

42
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:30pm

Pop quiz to help out a fella....

There was a MNF game back during the days of Dandy Don and Cosell which went to overtime after extremely poor play by both teams. Cosell made the comment "neither of these teams deserve to win this game."

After all the overtimes had expired, neither team could score and it ended in a tie. Cosell commented "Well, I said neither of these two teams deserve to win this game...and neither team won it!"

I believe one of the teams was the St. Louis Cardinals (go figure) who was the other team?

43
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:30pm

RE: 35

Actually, yes. But the idea was that a football player who's a criminal... oh nevermind. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Sams is a repeat offender, and is hardly a player I would ever cheer for. Like Chris Henry, Samari Rolle, Brooks, Thurman, and all the others.

44
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:30pm

Aaron: well said!

45
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:33pm

RE: 42

The New York/New Jersey Giants.

46
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:38pm

#45 - Thanks Sid...you're awesome.

Do you recall the year?

47
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:40pm

I believe it was 1983. I could be wrong, though.

BTW, the whiny guy on my TV says Sams is "apparently" done for the year with a fractured ankle.

48
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:40pm

How is DUI a violent crime? The "firing a gun in the air" analogy seems pretty accurate to me.

But I probably just don't understand your amazing intellect.

49
by stan (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:41pm

41 -- Sid,

Can't see the game, but it sounds just like him. Last year when the Titans played the Steelers early in the year and got blown out, the announcers were going on and on about how savvy McNair is and how lucky Jeff Fisher was to have him on the field leading his offense.

During their discussion, in the space of two plays, he had one delay of game call and one wasted time out because he realized at the last second he was about to get another penalty. A rookie free agent in a preseason game couldn't have looked any more lost.

50
by Harris (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:41pm

Give up play? Doesn't Collinsworth know that you don't have plays in your offense for 3rd-and-10? You just don't.

51
by B (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:42pm

48: Ask Leonard Little.

52
by Harris (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:45pm

Why are all shovel passes described as "little"?

53
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:47pm

Sid, you look to be correct. The profootball-reference shows a tie for both of those teams in 1983.

Thanks again for your help.

54
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:48pm

watching Steve McNair makes one kind of ill. The guy has got to be one of the most overrated QBs of recent vintage. He had one great season. Otherwise, watching him is just maddening.

55
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:49pm

RE: 48

Probably.

56
by Andrew (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:49pm

That flea flicker featured a nice fake-going-for-the-block by Houshmandzadeh. Really made the difference between a tackle on the underthrown ball vs. a TD.

57
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:50pm

RE: 49

Exactly. McNair often just looks clueless as to what is going on around him. On the Titans, he was known for barely getting the plays off (if he was lucky), or getting frequent DOG flags (if he wasn't).

58
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:52pm

#51

DUI can become manslaughter quite easily, I understand that. Does that make it a violent crime?

Leonard Little committed and pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Should everyone who commits an illegal act that could result in someone else's death be labeled a violent criminal?

59
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:56pm

speaking of Leonard Little, it still amazes me how he got off so easily for running over a mother of several. He was found not guilty, despite having a BAC of about .2, and served 90 days in jail.

60
by Harris (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:57pm

She's a buttaface, but man, what guns!

61
by stan (not verified) :: Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:58pm

12/19 for 88 yards

ummmm, isn't that kinda weak or something? Makes dink and dump look like the old Raiders.

62
by Sid (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:01am

the screen says 6,698. Gumbel says "you were only 2 short of 7,000." This guy continues to amaze me. Great math skills there, racist.

63
by B (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:08am

Funny how much better your defense looks when facing the Browns and Ravens. It's almost like oppponent adjustments matter. Anyways, I suppose DUI isn't a violent crime. Reckless endangerment is a more appropriate description. I just don't like the idea that DUI doesn't really count as a crime. Yes there are more serious offenses, but it's a good enough reason not to cheer for somebody.

64
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:08am

I haven't had the, uh, pleasure of seeing McNair at QB since he's been with the Ravens.

This is the guy who saved the Baltimore offense?

65
by MNRX (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:16am

dunno who else this might apply to, but I've got Comcast HD without NFLN, but still have the game on INHD2. The audio synch is a little off, but you don't notice it too much when the camera's on the game -- and as in so many cases, I've been seriously tempted to just put the game on mute.

66
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:17am

#63

I hope nothing I said suggested that DUI wasn't a crime, and I'm no BJ Sams fan. I just hate when people use hyperbole ("violent criminal") when the truth ("DUI offender") will do.

67
by Harris (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:19am

Thanks, MNRX. I haven't watched a game on non-HD in two years and that NFLN feed was worse than usual. Man, I am a spoiled wimp.

68
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:20am

Looks like someone woke Jamaal Lewis ... he seems to have a few nice runs in the 3rd quarter

69
by Nate (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:29am

68 - Did Jamal Lewis unleash the dragon? See link for some top notch football humor (at least, to those of us who watched the Pats game on Sunday) - 'ware cuss words.

70
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:35am

#69

Nice link.

71
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:35am

69: Funny, very funny! Thanks.

72
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:37am

#68: and by the way,

"‘ware cuss words."

that might be the understatement of the day (atleast till George Bush opens his mouth to talk of Iraq!)

73
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:38am

Something tells me that Billick will go for a FG instead of the TD on 4th down now!

74
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:38am

Three yard run on 1st and 20!
Four yard pass on 2nd and 17!

Good jorb, guys.

75
by RichConley (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:42am

re:22

Seriously have to agree. Ocho Cinco calling himself for PI impressed the hell out of me.

Everytime I see him play, I'm more impressed. Hes like what TO could be, if he pulled his head out of his ass.

76
by RichConley (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:44am

"theyre throwing the ball because they dont think their Defence can hold out"

no, you idiots. Theyre throwing because its 3rd and 4, and the running game is getting 2ypc

77
by Moridin (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:47am

Well, I suppose someone besides Pit's special teams can do poorly. Nice helping block by the 2nd guy.

78
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:48am

wow! billick goes for it on 4th down .. letz celebrate ...

what., they didn't make it ... too bad, Jim Fassel is not around to be blamed for it

Thinking aloud, am i the only one who sees that the ravens offense is no better than before and a lot of the results & high scores posted, are to do with the defense plays more than anything else.. i am glad that Billick got exposed today by the seemingly non-existent bengal defense.

79
by Moridin (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:48am

Also, I wasn't aware that the offense couldn't advance a muff punt.

80
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:52am

CIN - go for it on 4th down.

81
by Moridin (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:53am

Instead, missed field goal and decent field position.

82
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:54am

Ye Gods., we are all professionals here ...

83
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:54am

Why kick the FG there? Either way it's a two score game. Now the Ravens have decent field position.

84
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:56am

... good thing they're trying to win the game with 5-yard passes in bounds.

85
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:57am

Billick/McNair: you are down by 2 TDs - why are you even trying 4 yds & 1 yd passes?

86
by Moridin (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:58am

This has been a pretty strange game over all.

87
by B (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 12:58am

Hey, wouldn't the "31st worst" defense in the NFL be the 2nd best?

88
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:00am

#85 - Billick realizes they don't DESERVE to win this game.

Stand up guy.

89
by Sid (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:00am

I was very impressed by the pass protection on both sides, especially by the Bengals.

All game, McNair was dumping it off with good protection on downs where he needed yardage. 3rd and long? Dumpoff coming. Down 13 with 5 minutes left? Dumpoff.

But he just threw a long TD. That took all game.

90
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:01am

Hey, look at what going deep does for you! Maybe you should've tried that in the first 59 minutes!

91
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:02am

Oh, come on, Collinsworth, you know the ball is wet, but you don't know that it is slimey.

92
by Sid (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:03am

RE: 79

The returner has to establish possession first. Ivy didn't. Needless to say, having your 3rd string punt returner trying to catch a ball under pressure in the rain is a recipe for disaster.

93
by Sid (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:04am

lol, now I'm listening on the radio. The announcers are falling all over themselves praising the great Steve McNair, how a lead is never safe with him on the other sidelines. This is too damn funny.

94
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:04am

And an appropriately terrible onsides kick to end the game.

95
by Sid (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:06am

1-10-CIN49 (2:22) (Shotgun) S.McNair pass short middle to T.Heap to CIN 48 for 1 yard (K.Ratliff; B.Simmons).
2-9-CIN48 (2:00) (Shotgun) S.McNair pass short left to M.Anderson to CIN 44 for 4 yards (D.Jackson).
3-5-CIN44 (1:35) (Shotgun) S.McNair pass incomplete deep left to D.Williams.
4-5-CIN44 (1:29) (Shotgun)
PENALTY on BLT-S.McNair, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 44 - No Play.

That's the ballgame in a nutshell right there.

I was on my way home during the Cincy drive following the muffed punt, and I don't understand what they did. Did Baltimore call a timeout after the 3rd down run? Also, why the heck would they attempt a long FG there in the rain? Go for it.

96
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:07am

F#ck it! Sexy Rexy for MVP!

97
by johnt (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:07am

The amazing Steve McNair, ladies and gentlemen. He just wins games!

Mason's pushoff will ensure that nobody will critize McNair for his crappy play all next week. I mean, that was clock management on the level of Herman Edwards. Delay of game on 4th and 5?

98
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:09am

and the bengals have a chance to meet the ravens again in the playoffs (#3 vs #6). I think the Bengals can very well be the Pits Steelers of '05., they just need the defense to come good and pouring rain from today through super bowl.

99
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:11am

Steve McNair is who Sid thought he was......

100
by Moridin (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:13am

I still can't believe McNair spiked it on 3rd and 1 in the red zone.

101
by Moridin (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:23am

I think the ad for the next thursday night football game, Browns vs Steelers, is one of the funniest things I've seen/heard in quite some time.

102
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:26am

Mordin: Can you believe that in the first half, Ravens were at the CIN 30 with 1/2 time-outs and 1:20 to go and still came away with ZERO points.

103
by BillWallace (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:28am

1. Yeah you could get this game in HD with comcast, if you had INHD

2. I like these announcers. Gumble's voice is a little whiney, but overall I find them to be one of the very lesser of many many evils.

3. Apparently Billick borrowed the Texan's offensive playbook for this game. Too bad he couldn't borrow Andre Johnson and David Carr as well.

104
by Sid (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:35am

the whole HD thing has me kind of confused. I've read in multiple places, including here, that DirecTV's channel 95 is supposed to be NFL Network in HD. But where I was, there was no channel between 68-100, and I kept looking, but 212 was the only listing for the game. Maybe it depends on the area or something.

105
by Jim (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:58am

I think it's safe to say that there will be a new DVOA leader next week.

106
by andrew (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 2:00am

104 - you also have to buy the HD package, and have an HD receiver. the HD channels are mostly 70-99...

107
by Robby (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 2:32am

I'm a little disapointed at the no-call on Mason's psuh off. Otherwise, that is back to back shut outs for the beleagured Cincy D. Helps that they;re playing the Ravens and Browns, however.

Kudos to Wilkerson filling in there with good pass protections (the backs did phenomenally in that dept), but they need to improve their run blocking and get Rudi going.

108
by Random Bengals Fan (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 3:23am

In the big picture, it may be a good thing that we didn't get two shutouts (opponents held scoreless for seven quarters and fourteen minutes, dammit!) in a row. Our defense doing that, even against weak offenses...well, I think it would've been a sign of the apocalypse.

109
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 7:48am

39 I am not a big fan of gun ownership, and I am defintely not a big fan of driving drunk. But DUI sint a violent crime, and firign a gun in the air really isnt terribly dangerous.

Firing hundreds of automatic weapons into the air when there are large crowds around is, but that is hardly the same thing.

As despical as a DUI is it really is a completely different class of crime from say holding a knife up to a womans throat and taking her purse.

110
by Phil (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 10:47am

RE #48 - Zip

"How is DUI a violent crime? The “firing a gun in the air� analogy seems pretty accurate to me.

But I probably just don’t understand your amazing intellect."

Try saying that to the husband and child of the woman Leonard Little killed during ONE OF his drunk driving violations.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and think you really didn't think that statement through when you wrote it.

111
by Phil (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 10:52am

Sorry for the repetitive post. Didn't realize Leonard Little had been brought up yet. It still suprises me how easy he got off, and how many people don't even know about it. Not to mention that he's been pulled over a couple times after that event for DUI.

112
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 11:25am

CIN fan - I agree with the non-call on the Mason TD. But I also thought, if the players were switched and the DB kinda "shouldered" the WR to get in position, I'm thinking that PI *would* have been called. I don't think the rules say anything about what a defender can't do that a offensive player can do (except maybe hands in front of face).

Also, can someone please re-post the website where the former NFL Ref goes over why (or why not) calls were made in prev wk's games? -- thanks!

113
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 11:49am

#110

“How is DUI a violent crime? The “firing a gun in the air� analogy seems pretty accurate to me.

But I probably just don’t understand your amazing intellect.�

Try saying that to the husband and child of the woman Leonard Little killed during ONE OF his drunk driving violations.

Leonard Little was correctly convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Doesn't mean the other crime he committed (DUI) is a violent crime.

I'll assume you had only read my first post on this (48) when you responded, so I don't have to repeat myself.

114
by MJK (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 2:20pm

OK, now I'm absolutely, totally, and in all other ways confused about what constitutes pass interference and what does not. I think of myself as fairly knowledgeable about the rules, but I really can't tell what's incidental and what's interference anymore.

On Mason's TD, both he and the DB were in position for the ball. The DB was slightly better positioned; if he hadn't "fallen" Mason would have had to jump up in the air to catch it over his head. Both were turned looking for the ball, but Mason very clearly reaches out behind him and pushes the DB to the ground well before the ball gets there, making the catch possible for him and him alone. I know heads turned around often gives a pass on contact, but I wouldn't think that was the case when it was that blatant (or even if it is not so blatant--ask Artrell Hawkins or Asante Samuel). A good point was raised--if Mason and the DB were switched, and the DB did that to Mason, don't you think DPI would have been called?

I don't really care about either team, so I'm not a homer. I just saw something that frequently has been called in other games go uncalled, and it's happening all year. It was game changing. Could the league PLEASE get all refs on the same page regarding what PI is, and then get the memo to the teams? Call it strict or call it loose, but make up your mind!

115
by MJK (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 2:24pm

So why wasn't the muffed punt a Cincy TD? The kicking team is only allowed to advance a muffed punt if the reciever first establishes possession and fumbles? Otherwise, it's a dead ball at the point of recovery? Is that correct? I hadn't known that.

116
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 2:58pm

meant to say "CIN fan here" in prev post -- but I just like to see a game called correctly, which leads me to:

are the game charters or anyone indicating when a play involves a questionable call -- to see which officiating crews might be "umpire-challenged"? I have a feeling that certain crews just suck.

Also, on the play where CIN85 got called for OPI -- the OPI was obvious, but it seemed to me that Chad HAD to push away because he was being held/interfered beyond the 5 yd limit. I am DVR-less/TIVO-less/replay-less, so I can't verify. I might easily be wrong.

117
by zip (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 3:49pm

#114 MJK

Both were turned looking for the ball, but Mason very clearly reaches out behind him and pushes the DB to the ground well before the ball gets there, making the catch possible for him and him alone

In my opinion, he didn't push the DB to the ground. There was some contact and the DB went down, but I didn't see any major shove, and I don't think it was the reason the DB fell. I can see an argument for offensive PI here, but I would've called that incidental contact.

118
by Richard (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 5:34pm

Am I the only one that likes Collinsworth & Gumbel? They don't talk as much as other broadcasters which is a bonus and they both seem to stay away from saying truly stupid things every couple minutes.

119
by Mnatr (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 5:44pm

Vince Young wins football games?

I think it's more appropriate to say that the Titans defense (led by Pacman) and O-line + Travis Henry's corpse win football games, and occasionally Young helps out.

120
by MJK (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 6:24pm

zip,

At the beginning of the year, I would have called that incidental, too. But after half the crazy stuff I've seen this year, I thought for sure that there would be a flag. There just doesn't seem to be very much consistency.

I'm also bothered by the feeling that, had the players' positions been reversed, the DB probably would have been called for PI, or at least would have been more likely to be. Do other poeple agree with that feeling?

121
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Fri, 12/01/2006 - 7:20pm

RE-MJK-120

MJK, you know I agree. I'm thinking that way too often the offensive player is getting the benefit of the doubt on PI. Same with roughing the passer. And in a lot of cases, these iffy penalties are the differences in the ballgame (as CIN fan, I'm thinking of the end of the TB game -- admittedly, the game should not have been that close in the first place).

All the officials need to get on the same page with these calls. And if they cannot be made consistently, they absolutely MUST be reviewable.

Hey, maybe the NFL can take a page from the NHL and have all replays be handled by a single group in the league headquarters!

122
by MFurtek (not verified) :: Sat, 12/02/2006 - 2:12pm

Another slate of games up ahead. Here's a few thoughts assuming the crazy NFL season continues.
1) Look for the Giants to dismantle the Cowboys. Every anointed Super Bowl team has gone on to lose.
2) I expect we'll see Michael Vick put up ridiculous numbers this week and then everyone will be talking him up again.
3) Seattle over Denver and Cutler looks horrible.
4) I hope Ten-Ind is a good game, but I think Indy will dominate.
5) KC-CLE and GB-NYJ could be surprise good games of the weekend
6) I've completely written off Chicago. I just hope they don't kill Brad Johnson.
7) Another test for SF... I'm not familiar with their defense.
8) Panthers-Eagles is intriguing if only to see which Panthers teams shows up.

It's frustrating yet exciting to watch the NFL these days. I don't remember so many inconsistent teams (like the whole NFC). Why are the players so inconsistent?

123
by Flagstaff (not verified) :: Sat, 12/02/2006 - 6:27pm

Question:

Is anybody else having a hard time with NFL.com? The pages load so slowly it's impossible to use. I'd just like to know if it's my computer or their website.

124
by Sid (not verified) :: Sat, 12/02/2006 - 7:43pm

RE: 116

So why wasn’t the muffed punt a Cincy TD? The kicking team is only allowed to advance a muffed punt if the reciever first establishes possession and fumbles? Otherwise, it’s a dead ball at the point of recovery? Is that correct? I hadn’t known that.

Yep.

125
by Sid (not verified) :: Sat, 12/02/2006 - 8:02pm

RE: 123

Yes. I've had some problems with nfl.com the last 2 days. Seems to be better now, though.

126
by MFurtek (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:56am

Just a random question. Is it legal for a defensive player to contact a receiver more than 5 yards downfield on a flea-flicker or HB option pass?

I would think it would be since the offense is faking a run... so at some point that receiver is considered a blocker.

127
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 5:22am

We got to see some classic McNair on that drive. Let 20 seconds run off the clock, look clueless, and start jogging off the field. Ummm, run the damn play. If you’re going to call a timeout, you have to call it immediately after a play. You don’t line up, run clock, and then call a timeout.

I was thinking that if we had seen a few more things, we truly could have summed up McNair's career in one shot. As McNair was cluelessly jogging off the field, wasting time and timeouts both, he trips over his own feet, falling and bruising his chest. He is listed as "questionable to return", yet heroically comes back in the 4th quarter, plays horribly, ensuring a Baltimore loss. Then we would get to hear the announcers gushing about how the "tough" McNair displayed great "heart and courage", in returning to lead his team to defeat.

128
by Bobman (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 6:00am

Hey, this just in: Luck IS sustainable. Apparently Indy's FG % against has been low for over 1.5 seasons. Nobody knows why, including FO, but the % spread between NFL average and "when going against Indy" is pretty amazing--20 percentage points. 27 games and counting. Maybe they see all those short defenders and assume they cannot get blocks, then relax a bit too much.

Now it's time to see who's "good" on fumble recoveries and see if they can keep that going....

Link at my name.

129
by Jimmy6 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 1:25pm

Weather in Chicago: High of 15 with 17mph winds. Single digit windchill.

130
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 2:12pm

RE: 128

That is really bizarre. I can't think of any good explanation. You'd think the % against would be higher than the NFL average, given that half the Colts' games are in a dome.

131
by MJK (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 2:15pm

Bobman,

It's because Bill Polian roughs up the opposing team's kicker before every game...

What happens if you look at "home" and "away" games separately? And if you throw in Indy's attempts for "home" games? Is it perhaps something to do with the RCA dome?

132
by MJK (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 2:19pm

Making a FG isn't completely dependent on just a team's kicker, even if DVOA treats it so. There are ST tactics that the other team can employ that makes his life more difficult--some teams are better at blocking so the kicker has to try to put the kick higher, some are better at edge rushing so the kicker has to change his angle slightly or rush his kicks, some teams may even be better at sneaking in illegal techniques like jumping on each other to get more height. Not saying the Colts do anything like this, but it's possible. And if only a couple teams are better than average at this skill, and there's a wide variance in this behavior anyway, it wouldn't be obvious and wouldn't necessarily increase the predictive power of DVOA...

133
by MJK (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 2:20pm

There also could be a mental aspect. Maybe the pressure of kicking against the Colts, who you know are going to put up a lot of points and probably turn the game into a shootout, gets in some kicker's heads.

134
by MFurtek (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 2:37pm

Shawn Springs = Inactive for Redskins...

Maybe Kenny Wright could match up against Atlanta's receivers.

135
by Fnor (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 2:53pm

IRC.
Channel #FO.
Server bendenweyr.dyndns.org.

Wii.

136
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:02pm

49ers @ Saints or Falcons @ Redskins followed by Dallas @ Giants or Houston @ Oakland. Another tough choice for the late game.

137
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:03pm

The Falcons will win today because the Washington cheerbabes are overdressed.

138
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:03pm

Bears fumble opening kickoff...

139
by Moridin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:04pm

Vikings recover opening KO fumble by the Bears. Nice closeline by Griffen to knock the ball loose.

140
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:05pm

Jets at Green Bay. Does anyone other than Nick Mangold's disturbingly fat and neck-free sister want to see this game?

141
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:09pm

The vikings offense responds to this opportunity by going 3 and out with 2 penalties. They did get the punt inside the 10 though.

142
by zzyzx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:10pm

I'm watching the Rams game in one of my screens. Did you know that it's illegal to have a run defense? Apparently someone told that to the Rams.

143
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:11pm

Don't like the monochrome Saints unis.

144
by Dave (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:11pm

And the first team to reach the end zone on the day is the Browns?

145
by zzyzx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:13pm

TD Cards. The Rams were pretty balanced on defense, matchign their lack of run defense with a horrid pass defense.

146
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:13pm

Marcel Shipp? How many goal line carries can Edge owners even hope for, and the one chance he has, Marcel Shipp steals the TD?

147
by Rocco (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:16pm

Jason Campbell needs to learn to slide. Other than that, great drive for the Skins, with a Betts TD to cap things.

148
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:16pm

Vikings continue to add to their penalty stats, wiping out a long punt return by Moore, instead of midfield they start inside their 5...

149
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:17pm

nfl.com gametracker currently says 1-0, arizona.

150
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:17pm

Alex Smith looks horrible so far. Looks like the bad SF offense has shown up so far.

151
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:19pm

150: They're just trying to look as bad as the Saints' uniforms.

152
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:20pm

sigh, Brad Johnson while being held throws up a duck that is intercepted by the Bears. Bad decision.... Bears first down at the vikes 22. Lets contrast how they do with their turnover with what the Vikes did...

153
by BB (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:21pm

3rd & 2 for the Vikes, play fake ignored by Ogunleye who nearly sacks Johnson as he rolls out, but Tank Johnson gets there just as Johnson throws a woeful pass over all of his guys and right to Danieal Manning for the pick.

154
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:22pm

The announcers just said that Reche Caldwell's 2 receptions today are a career high....

Now, I know they probablt meant hes hit his career high for the season, but C'mon.

155
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:22pm

Rex gives it right back, intercepted by Napoleon Harris.

156
by Moridin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:22pm

Grossman repicks Brad Johnson. Viking ball.

157
by BB (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:22pm

And Evil Rex returns the favor, throwing one right to the Vikes on 3rd and 10.

158
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:22pm

Rex is a very naughty boy, only ccoal in his stocking this year.

159
by Moridin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:22pm

I suppose that should say regifts actually.

160
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:22pm

The Saints' unis do look pretty bad. At least it's black and not some newfangled color. Maybe the Saints want the lights out in the Superdome so the other team can't see them.

161
by Not saying (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:23pm

Re: 154

Actually, they said he "has a career high on the season".

162
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:23pm

The thing about both picks, Johnson's and Grossman's, is that there was no one near the defender when they caught the ball. Neither was a 50/50 ball or a great play made on the ball. The ball went right to the defender.

163
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:24pm

3 & 1: Peyton ., why are you throwing? Hasn't Addai been good to get the yard.

164
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:25pm

That was a GREAT move by Brees to avoid the sack. Horrible zone blitz pickup by the left tackle.

165
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:25pm

4 straight 3 & outs in New Orleans. I wasn't expecting a defensive battle.

166
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:25pm

And now V Young is intercepted. Ye gods., we are all professional here

167
by Kachunk (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:26pm

holy turnovers batman. Vikings catch and fumble.

168
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:27pm

160: Maybe they want to increase liquor sales in the Dome so that people will dull their senses...

169
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:27pm

Did anyone had R. Cadwell in their loser league team. He is gonna ruin your day.

3 long passes from T Brady. What a day

170
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:28pm

Pennington is picking apart the Packers so-called defense.

It's like the defense decided that after playing well against Minnesota they didn't have to do anything more the rest of the season. The last 2 plus games every aspect of the defense has been terrible. Run defense bad, secondary worse, and everyone looking confused.

Geez....

171
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:29pm

If Hollis Thomas is showing some ups, then there's a problem...

172
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:31pm

I just dont understand how on 4th and 1, other teams are lookin for anything other than the Tom Brady QB sneak....

173
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:31pm

If that's Marvin Harrison instead of Antonio Bryant, I bet they don't pick up the flag for PI.

Also, Alex Smith threw another bad pass. He also had Battle open over the middle.

174
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:31pm

On a first and ten Brad Johnson calls a qb sneak. got 3 yards though.

175
by BB (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:31pm

Phantom defensive holding call on a play where Johnson was sacked keeps the vikes drive going.

176
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:31pm

Is it only me who sees that L Maroney has not lived up to the hype generated by the experts. As of now, he has 14 yds on 4 carries and seem to me Addai might be the better RB of the first round draft (oh., do i need to tell Reggie Bush is still missing)

177
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:34pm

I have to confess to being torn about the rest of the season. Part of me understands that only by losing 10 plus games will the Packers get another high pick. And that supposedly improves their chances of getting a better player in a draft that looks pretty good.

But it's one thing to lose games and it's another to just get shoved around non-stop.

By the way, Favre is getting completely hammered by the Jets. The Pats games has clearly been viewed by other teams who are geting the same results. And GB has obviously not adjusted.

178
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:34pm

First first down of the game. Brees to Horn. Looks like Joe caught that one in a bad place.

179
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:35pm

Gore: 3 Carries for -1 yds; Drew Brees 3/7 for 30 yds. Some fantasy owners are having a bad start

180
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:36pm

Hey Sophandros,
what's the deal with the Saints o-line? they seem to be having a lot of trouble on the blitz pickups. Earlier the color guy said that the Saints had allowed the second fewest sacks so far.

181
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:36pm

Jets are manhandling the Packers D-line. KGB just got stoned by a tight end. This is sad.

182
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:37pm

Right now, Bush leads Gore...

Another good blitz by SF. Their defense is playing quite well today.

183
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:37pm

Kaeding makes his first field goal in what seems like a month (I've had him on fantasy team and it was just a slew of extra points, their efficiency was killing my team...)

184
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:38pm

After about a solid minute of praise for the vikings run defense, Jones rips off a 16 yard run on 3rd and 3.

185
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:38pm

Re: 178

The backseat of a Volkswagen?

186
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:39pm

Crowd booing the Packers.

Loudly.

187
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:39pm

185: That would be a very uncomfortable place.

188
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:40pm

Pats: 17 plays for 81 yds and a Field Goal. I read somewhere that the Pats offense needs to have it picture perfect to get a TD this season and rank in the bottom half for TDs from outside the red zone - both explainable because of lack of a big time playmaker WR. I have suddenly started believing in that.

189
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:40pm

LT 51 yds run for Touchdown. And then there are other RBs

190
by Rocco (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:41pm

The Falcons just proved why going for it on 4th down on the other side of midfield isn't always a good idea.

191
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:41pm

Antoine Winfield, Rex Offender.

192
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:42pm

The Bears have now committed a turnover on their first three posessions.

193
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:42pm

Should have gotten a facemask as well. Rex Grossman is the new ROBOPUNTER!

194
by Dave (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:42pm

And Derek Anderson comes in for Frye and immediately looks less inept. Two plays in may be a bit premature for prognosticating, but Frye's got me impatient.

195
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:42pm

180: The Saints line isn't really that great. They don't give up a lot of sacks because of the system--Brees gets rid of the ball quickly. Also, until today, teams didn't seem to blitz the Saints that much because doing so would leave Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Joe Horn, and Devery Henderson in one v. one situations. That's not good. But today, it looks like the Niners have decided that it doesn't matter if their guys are locked up 1v1 if Drew is on his back.

196
by Kachunk (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:42pm

Stupid throw by Rex.

197
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:43pm

Why would you have Chad Scott to cover Williams - one of the top 5 WRs in NFC?

198
by Tampa Bay Mike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:43pm

Shouldn't the Falcons line up in a 3 receiver set to spread out the defense on that one? There were what, 4 defenders over the center and guards? Teams seem to have success on fourth running when they spread the D.

199
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:43pm

Jets had 175 yards in offense in the first quarter.

Nick Collins had another chance for an interception but allowed the ball to go through his hands and the receiver caught the ball. This has happened five times in the last six times by my count.

It's bizarre.

200
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:44pm

Nice trick play by SF. Direct snap to Gore, end-around to Gilmore. First down. Nice play.

201
by Tampa Bay Mike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:44pm

I think Vick is the least of the Falcon's problems. That D is awful and of course the receivers. Brian Finneran, please be healthy next year.

202
by Dave (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:44pm

Indeed, I spoke too soon. Damn Browns. I should spend game day eating nachos, not my words.

203
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:45pm

Touchdown Jets. 17-0.

This is a mismatch.

And the boos are RAINING down on the field.

204
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:45pm

Its looks like me playing Ahman Green against that awful jets running D isnt gonna matter.

205
by Rocco (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:46pm

The Rams D is making Edge look good- 8 carries, 48 yards.

206
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:46pm

The MIN CHI game is going to be decided by defense scores not offensive ones.

207
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:46pm

Vikings run 3 times for 2 yards each, plus a false start. That Grossman INT might work out ok, as Hester gets a shot....

208
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:47pm

Yikes...kitna is gonna have a rough day

209
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:47pm

I swear I typed that before it happened... the Vikings had him wrapped up and didn't finish the tackle.

210
by BB (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:47pm

Your Pro Bowl Punt Returner Devin Hester with another return for a TD. Four white jerseys all around him after he picks up a bouncing kick and he still took it back.

211
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:48pm

Have Frank Gore and Alex Smith fallen out? That was a textbook 'Hospital Pass'.

212
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:48pm

It should be noted that Arnez Battle is a Louisiana native, which means that he is bound to have a good game against the Saints...

213
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:49pm

Agreed James, that pass could have put Gore in the hospital and given the Saints a quick six.

214
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:49pm

The key to that Hester return, however, was that the bears didn't commit any penalties on the return (contrasted with Moore's return of about the same length where the vikings did).

Based on what we've seen, the Bears will win this game, and penalties will be the biggest reason why.

At this point the Bears could win it easily if they didn't throw another pass.

215
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:51pm

These Niners are crafty, I tell you...

216
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:51pm

Re #206

At least Edge got 8 carries. He killed my LL team last week.

217
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:51pm

Just noticed that despite Bethel Johnson (nice return of the kickoff to the 40) being on the Vikings, Brad Johnson is still wearing "B. Johnson" on his jersey. Thought they had to be more specific when two players had the same first initial and last name...

218
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:52pm

Part of that 29th ranking is talent, sure, but another part of it is playing the #1 rushing offense twice a year.

219
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:52pm

Everything going right for the Jets. Beautiful game to watch

also:

1-3-STL3 (12:35) J.Arrington left guard to SL 3 for no gain (L.Glover).
2-3-STL3 (11:31) M.Leinart pass incomplete short left to A.Boldin.
3-3-STL3 (11:27) M.Shipp up the middle to SL 1 for 2 yards (J.Kennedy).
4-1-STL1 (10:48) M.Shipp right tackle to SL 2 for -1 yards (C.Wroten).

220
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:52pm

Good return by the beer man. It seemed more like bad coverage than good blocking.

221
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:53pm

Big return by the Beer Man. That's what we need. The crowd are getting into it now.

222
by zzyzx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:53pm

Holt just dropped what would have been an 85 yard TD if he had caught it in stride.

223
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:55pm

I'm a vikings fan and I'm not going to defend that roughing the passer call. I still don't think the vikings punch it in though.

224
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:55pm

Agreed, the Saints' rushing defense is middle of the pack in DVOA.

225
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:56pm

Apparently Urlacher got a penalty for "flexing his muscles" as he hit johnson.

226
by Gerry (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:56pm

Re:219---

I guess Denny Green is passively-aggressively giving Edge what he demanded in the press: for the Cards to run the ball at the goal line.

227
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:56pm

These roughing the passer calls are really out of hand. Christ let them play football.

228
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:57pm

Nice run by the Saints. Bush lined up a WR fakes the end around, and the D froze. McAllister went off tackle for 18.

228
by MCS (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:57pm

Schottenheimer (Kurt) must go!

230
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:57pm

Nice run by Deuce, due in part to the use of Reggie as a decoy.

231
by zzyzx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:57pm

Yeah I switched to that Bears game and I don't grok that call at all. That's going to be a huge change this offseason. Turned out not to be gamechanging though.

232
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:59pm

My god, Deuce got about 7 yards by himself with half the 49ers team trying to shove him back.

233
by black (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 3:59pm

Wow, great second and third efforts by reggie bush to get them down to the 1 yard line.

234
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:00pm

That was Reggie Bush, not Deuce. He really juked that LB out of his shoes.

235
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:00pm

Is that last run the sort of thing Reggie Bush used to do in College?

236
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:00pm

24-0 Jets. This may read as hyperbole, but I honestly have not seen a Packer team get THIS steamrolled. Even last year it never looked this bad.

Just bad, bad, bad.

237
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:00pm

What a play by Reggie.

Wow.

238
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:01pm

anyone see that call on chad scott?

bull. absolute bull.

239
by zzyzx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:01pm

One of the best runs I've seen in ages. They should review it just because he deserves the TD for that effort.

Meanwhile, it's now 14-3 Cards meaning I'm probably the only person outside of STL or AZ watching it.

240
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:01pm

You wouldn't think it from the way the game has gone, but the Green Bay D has gotten away with several occurrences of obvious holding and/or interference. They finally call something, on Nick Barnett. That set up the TD to make it 24-0.

241
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:02pm

235: Yes, but in college the catch would have been at his own 30 or 40 and he would have scored. He also would not have been touched.

242
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:03pm

Here comes a big challenge. Bush fumbled while going into the end zone, but it looks like he scored.

243
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:03pm

What's with the Bears shredding the Vikings run defense? This is supposed to be the unit that will displace the 2000 Ravens as the greatest rush defenders of all time? The cold should be their friend.

244
by Carlos (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:03pm

235: Yes. I tivo'd just about every USC game last year, just to fast fwd through to watch Bush's runs. He was the most exciting runner I'd ever seen at any level.

He'll be a good one in the NFL.

245
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:04pm

Kewl., the lions are mounting a fight at the Pats. I want to see how NE responds with its offensive tools when we are down by 10.

246
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:04pm

Grossman falls down by himself on 2nd and 5. No one around him. Sits there until a Viking runs up and tags him. He had like 3 seconds to get up.

246
by Not saying (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:04pm

Re: 238

That was a terrible call. Way late, too.

The Pats still suck today.

248
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:04pm

Touch down, Reggie.

249
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:05pm

247

Oh, I agree they suck today. It doesnt help that theyre getting all sorts of phantom penalties, and detroit isnt getting called for anything.

250
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:05pm

Is Kyle Orton still on the Bear's roster?

251
by Tampa Bay Mike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:05pm

Washington lets the Falcons off the hook with a dropped pass. Gotta believe the receiver (a TE or Fullback) would have picked up the extra half-yard.

252
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:05pm

How the heck is Detroit beating New England?

253
by Adam Gretz (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:06pm

Remember 8 weeks ago when Rex Grossman was going to win the MVP award?

Yeah.

I feel bad for Rex.

254
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:06pm

well, I Think thats the first thing thats gone the pat's way all day.

255
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:06pm

Favre was hoping for bad weather. He got it, and he's been awful anyway.

256
by Not saying (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:06pm

Damn, that's a lucky break. Kevin Jones fumbles on the 2, Vrabel recovers.

257
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:07pm

Whew! Thanks Vrabel. Can the offense please show-up without penalties and sputtering?

258
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:08pm

Vick is 2/7 for 20 yards so far.

Ouch.

259
by peachy (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:08pm

Maybe Rexy is just hungover from the celebration last night... in fact, maybe he's been hung over most Sundays after celebrating UF victories. Which means that he'll be sharp for the next few weeks, right?

260
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:08pm

Good call sending the Goose to Chicago. He's definitely got enough blubber to keep him warm in those frigid conditions.

261
by Not saying (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:08pm

Re: 252

Pats D is playing terribly. Especially on third down. A couple of times, Kitna's been sacked or pressured the first 2 downs and then a WR gets completely open on 3rd down.

262
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:09pm

They just compared Artrell Hawkins to James Earl Jones and Barry White...

I'm missing the NFLN announcers right now.

263
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:09pm

favre throws a deep bomb and nails dyson with the ball.

264
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:10pm

Having Hollis Thomas land on you can't be good.

265
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:10pm

Bears scoring time, Vikigns punting from their 20 (4th and a foot).

266
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:11pm

Bills just got screwed with a call.

EVERYTHING going right for the Jets. Coles fumbled but Cotchery flew on it right after the ball popped out

267
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:11pm

The punt goes all of 20 yards, but bears all around the ball as it comes down, hits a bear, scrum, and Vikings have their 4th turnover of the game.

268
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:11pm

261

The defence hasnt been good, but the offense has been just as bad, if not worse.

269
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:12pm

Thats 2 special teams fumbles lost and a TD for the Bears so far.

270
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:12pm

Randall Godfrey out for the game.

271
by chuangtzu (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:12pm

Don't heap dirt on Vick yet. He's still alive, digging out of the grave one finger at a time.

272
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:12pm

And the Saints' defensive line has awakened. This is also without the Fresh Prince.

272
by Not saying (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:12pm

Patrick Pass, in a rare run, shows why he doesn't get more carries. Fumble. Detroit ball at the 15.

274
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:12pm

Hey, the Falcons finally showed up!

And yes, Hollis Thomas is huge. You know that when he gets a sack off of a stunt, it's gotta be a coverage sack.

275
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:13pm

ooo... marcus robinson wide open down the sideline and johnson overthrows it.

276
by James, London (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:13pm

The Saints have woken up on both sides of the ball. That was an impressive 3 & out.

277
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:13pm

All Brad Johnson does is suck.

278
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:13pm

Some of the Saints improved d-line play can probably be attributed to Adam Snyder's injury. SF doesn't have great depth.

279
by Josh (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:14pm

Why did the Titans just run the same shotgun draw play to Travis Henry three plays in a row?

280
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:14pm

so vikes go 3 and out, and punt again, most exciting play of the game.

281
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:14pm

and another 20 yard punt. This time entire bears team sprints away from the ball.

282
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:15pm

That's going to hurt Henderson's average per catch...

283
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:16pm

I somehow like Wilson (Cardinals) as a pro bowler than roy williams (5 INTs) for the NFC safety. I think he might be the only pro bowler from the team

284
by navin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:16pm

I've been very impressed by Brees so far. He really responds well to pressure and good coverage. Contrast that to Aaron Brooks--I know people have mentioned that improvement before, I'm just seeing it for the first time today.

285
by Tampa Bay Mike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:16pm

Falcons had their much too frequent 'and goal' from beyond the ten-yard line, but the pass is on the money and Crumpler hauls it in.

286
by Alex DL (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:17pm

Brad Johnson overthrew it? Really? The Vikings' Brad Johnson?

287
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:17pm

Without Horn or Colston in there, the Saints passing attack is much more bland. Henderson is better as a 2 or 3, not a 1.

288
by Marko (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:17pm

It's the 2 minute warning and there has been less than 200 yards of offense by both teams combined in the Bears-Vikings game.

289
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:17pm

What has been going on with the Rams lately?

290
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:18pm

BTW, Pennington has 227 yards with 2 minutes left in the first half.

Favre has 35 and a pick.

291
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:18pm

Has brady thrown a pass today that hasnt been underthrown? Because I havent noticed one yet.

292
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:19pm

Can someone let me know what happened to Doug Gabriel after the first few weeks. He was good and had a fumble and has disappeared after that.

293
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:19pm

286 - well it might have been wind-aided.

294
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:19pm

The American Idol girl singing "Stormy Weather" can be Miss Right Now.

295
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:20pm

Maynard got more yards on one punt than Chris Kluwe had on his last 3.

296
by black (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:20pm

So nobody is watching the nascar awards on nbc?

But for football ball related talk, for who asked why the titans ran the shotgun draw 3 times in a row, just watch the first drive of the first game the played against each other.

297
by RichConley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:20pm

292

He had like 3 fumbles in 2 games.. other than that, I dont know. I think Caldwell is just better than he is.

Surprisingly, Caldwell seems to ALWAYS be open.

298
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:21pm

Huh. My mom used to live in the neighborhood where the Niners went to paint that school.

299
by G (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:21pm

As a Giants fan, boy am I jealous of that Jet's offense. I mean damn. So clean and well executed.

300
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/03/2006 - 4:21pm

The vikings deactivated Troy Williamson, so the other Vikings receivers decided to take up the ball-dropping slack.