Bengals: 27
Ravens: 17

If you believe some of the sports media, the Giants are imploding.

Yeah, they aren't handling the press well, but they managed to get up 21-0 on the Titans, and only lost because of some truly improbable events. I wouldn't worry too much about anything but getting their best players healthy.

Yes, I just rebutted a stupid mainstream sports theory of the week, which is like playing tether-ball against a 5 year-old, but I needed to get it off my chest.

i'm hearing bad weather in the forecast so take the under.

Also, i watched that bengals ravens game from a month ago on nfln, and yeah ray lewis got ran over by rudi in the end zone but that was like two plays after he got kneed in the back by ed reed, cut him some slack, and yes this is a run on sentence i apologize.

Also i need that arbitrary td from you chris henry for fantasy purposes

The NFL network doesn't have an HD version does it... dangit. Hard going back... though not having the espn crew makes up for a lot...

For all 5 of you that will actually get the game, IRC will be open in channel #FO on server bendenweyr.dyndns.org.

Most of us can't watch it, but at least we can all make fun of Pats fans!

Is the game only on NFL Network in the US? It's on TSN (aka ESPN) here in Canada. Hooray for business trips!

Thought the NFL network had wider coverage... I guess their plan is this will cause angry calls to cable companies forcing more to carry it or something....

You know, I figured since the nfl network is listed in my channel list twice, the other one would be HD, but I checked after andrew's comments, and I think comcast just has the channel twice... That's just weird.

Apparently there is an NFL Network HD, and its available only via Dish network (like any NFL fan I went with DirecTV sunday ticket) and Verizon's FIOS.

Spoke too soon. DirecTV has it in HD, channel 95. wooha!

Is it me, or is Bryant Gumble really insipid? I suppose he makes Wayne Brady look like Malcom X though, so it's all good.

With Dungy always calls plays like that, no wonder Manning audibles out of everything. (Yes, I know the OC calls the plays for the Colts, but it's my joke.)

Ugly series for Baltimore. As usual, McNair is unaware of the playclock and let it run down. Then they had 2nd and 15, and a run up the middle is followed by a short dumpoff. The idea is to get a first down, Steve.

Re: 8, 9

NFL Network games should be in HD on DirecTV channel 95.

I haven't listened to him in years; Gumbel has a terrible broadcast voice, doesn't he? It's bad enough that he has nothing to say, and it's worse that he says it in a kinda' whiny way. At least his brother's timbre doesn't irritate the eardrums.

No wonder his mother can't (or couldn't) stand to be around him.

Housh makes a nice move to beat Rolle after the catch for the first down, but forgets that he needs to get the ball, not his legs, past the first down marker. Lewis challenges the spot of the ball, but I don't think it's gonna change anything.

As for Gumble's question that why do fans always cheer when the home coach challenges, it's because the refs are always wrong.

good call by whoever noticed how bryant gumbel always say "about a yard or two, two maybe three yards" he is never decisive.

on the NFL network news update -- Culpepper just had surgery again? not good... I keep thinking the Vikings didn't get much for him (Ryan Cook as it turned out, who saw first action this season) but its hard to argue they got less fromm it than Miami did...

I see the plastic surgeons in Cincy do good work....

How does Gumble call a TD? "Player X crosses the goal line, for five, maybe six points."

Ever since FO pointed out Samari Rolle's decline, he's really started to look bad to me. Actually no one in the Ravens secondary has made any plays tonight, except maybe the tip on that underthrown deep ball to Johnson.

Oh, and props to Johnson for calling PI on himself.

not a fan of these announcers. The racist and the bloviate.

I'm pretty sure Collinsworth called Haloti Ngata "Willie" at one point.

Why was chad johnson called for off. PI? can someone let me know what happened on that play

#24 He pushed off in the end zone. A call seen far too rarely.

I'm at someone's house who has DirecTV here in NYC, and I found the game on channel 212, but I can't find another listing for it. I guess no HDTV here.

#25: Thanks

It doesn't look like the bengals will be able to run much, but it probably won't be needed at this rate. Palmer is just picking them apart. Chad and Housh have 13 receptions between them already.

28 - Yeah, but they may not accomplish much if they don't actually start punching some of these drives into the endzone.

Ravens really do have a top red zone D. Bengals keep stalling.

'Crenell has the complete suport of the....'

Well, he's gone.....

Oh man, ugly injury on BJ Sams. Definitely got his foot twisted almost completely backwards.. that's gotta be a season ender.

"BJ Sams is just a player you gotta cheer for."

Yeah, how could anyone not cheer for a violent criminal? Although that does exclude a large portion of the players performing tonight...

RE: 19

They got a lot, considering he was coming off a horrible season, a horrific knee injury, and is making WAAAAY too much money. Base salaries are spiraling out of control on that deal.

RE:33

DUI is a violent crime now? Get yer facts straight.

3rd and 1 with 15 seconds left and they spike it.

Terrible call... take a shot at the end zone, you have plenty of time.

...and then they shank the FG. Nice job, guys.

35: It should be considered assault with a deadly weapon. DUI is as dangerous a crime as firing a gun randomly into the air.

Six consecutive scoreless quarters from the Bengals defense. Weird.

We got to see some classic McNair on that drive. Let 20 seconds run off the clock, look clueless, and start jogging off the field. Ummm, run the damn play. If you're going to call a timeout, you have to call it immediately after a play. You don't line up, run clock, and then call a timeout.

By the way, Cris, the Ravens didn't win the Super Bowl in 2002. They were 7-9. How dumb are these announcers? Can't they at least know the last few Super Bowl winners?

Pop quiz to help out a fella....

There was a MNF game back during the days of Dandy Don and Cosell which went to overtime after extremely poor play by both teams. Cosell made the comment "neither of these teams deserve to win this game."

After all the overtimes had expired, neither team could score and it ended in a tie. Cosell commented "Well, I said neither of these two teams deserve to win this game...and neither team won it!"

I believe one of the teams was the St. Louis Cardinals (go figure) who was the other team?

RE: 35

Actually, yes. But the idea was that a football player who's a criminal... oh nevermind. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Sams is a repeat offender, and is hardly a player I would ever cheer for. Like Chris Henry, Samari Rolle, Brooks, Thurman, and all the others.

Aaron: well said!

RE: 42

The New York/New Jersey Giants.

#45 - Thanks Sid...you're awesome.

Do you recall the year?

I believe it was 1983. I could be wrong, though.

BTW, the whiny guy on my TV says Sams is "apparently" done for the year with a fractured ankle.

How is DUI a violent crime? The "firing a gun in the air" analogy seems pretty accurate to me.

But I probably just don't understand your amazing intellect.

41 -- Sid,

Can't see the game, but it sounds just like him. Last year when the Titans played the Steelers early in the year and got blown out, the announcers were going on and on about how savvy McNair is and how lucky Jeff Fisher was to have him on the field leading his offense.

During their discussion, in the space of two plays, he had one delay of game call and one wasted time out because he realized at the last second he was about to get another penalty. A rookie free agent in a preseason game couldn't have looked any more lost.

Give up play? Doesn't Collinsworth know that you don't have plays in your offense for 3rd-and-10? You just don't.

48: Ask Leonard Little.

Why are all shovel passes described as "little"?

Sid, you look to be correct. The profootball-reference shows a tie for both of those teams in 1983.

Thanks again for your help.

watching Steve McNair makes one kind of ill. The guy has got to be one of the most overrated QBs of recent vintage. He had one great season. Otherwise, watching him is just maddening.

RE: 48

Probably.

That flea flicker featured a nice fake-going-for-the-block by Houshmandzadeh. Really made the difference between a tackle on the underthrown ball vs. a TD.

RE: 49

Exactly. McNair often just looks clueless as to what is going on around him. On the Titans, he was known for barely getting the plays off (if he was lucky), or getting frequent DOG flags (if he wasn't).

#51

DUI can become manslaughter quite easily, I understand that. Does that make it a violent crime?

Leonard Little committed and pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Should everyone who commits an illegal act that could result in someone else's death be labeled a violent criminal?

speaking of Leonard Little, it still amazes me how he got off so easily for running over a mother of several. He was found not guilty, despite having a BAC of about .2, and served 90 days in jail.

She's a buttaface, but man, what guns!

12/19 for 88 yards

ummmm, isn't that kinda weak or something? Makes dink and dump look like the old Raiders.

the screen says 6,698. Gumbel says "you were only 2 short of 7,000." This guy continues to amaze me. Great math skills there, racist.

Funny how much better your defense looks when facing the Browns and Ravens. It's almost like oppponent adjustments matter. Anyways, I suppose DUI isn't a violent crime. Reckless endangerment is a more appropriate description. I just don't like the idea that DUI doesn't really count as a crime. Yes there are more serious offenses, but it's a good enough reason not to cheer for somebody.

I haven't had the, uh, pleasure of seeing McNair at QB since he's been with the Ravens.

This is the guy who saved the Baltimore offense?

dunno who else this might apply to, but I've got Comcast HD without NFLN, but still have the game on INHD2. The audio synch is a little off, but you don't notice it too much when the camera's on the game -- and as in so many cases, I've been seriously tempted to just put the game on mute.

#63

I hope nothing I said suggested that DUI wasn't a crime, and I'm no BJ Sams fan. I just hate when people use hyperbole ("violent criminal") when the truth ("DUI offender") will do.

Thanks, MNRX. I haven't watched a game on non-HD in two years and that NFLN feed was worse than usual. Man, I am a spoiled wimp.

Looks like someone woke Jamaal Lewis ... he seems to have a few nice runs in the 3rd quarter

68 - Did Jamal Lewis unleash the dragon? See link for some top notch football humor (at least, to those of us who watched the Pats game on Sunday) - 'ware cuss words.

#69

Nice link.

69: Funny, very funny! Thanks.

#68: and by the way,

"‘ware cuss words."

that might be the understatement of the day (atleast till George Bush opens his mouth to talk of Iraq!)

Something tells me that Billick will go for a FG instead of the TD on 4th down now!

Three yard run on 1st and 20!
Four yard pass on 2nd and 17!

Good jorb, guys.

re:22

Seriously have to agree. Ocho Cinco calling himself for PI impressed the hell out of me.

Everytime I see him play, I'm more impressed. Hes like what TO could be, if he pulled his head out of his ass.

"theyre throwing the ball because they dont think their Defence can hold out"

no, you idiots. Theyre throwing because its 3rd and 4, and the running game is getting 2ypc

Well, I suppose someone besides Pit's special teams can do poorly. Nice helping block by the 2nd guy.

wow! billick goes for it on 4th down .. letz celebrate ...

what., they didn't make it ... too bad, Jim Fassel is not around to be blamed for it

Thinking aloud, am i the only one who sees that the ravens offense is no better than before and a lot of the results & high scores posted, are to do with the defense plays more than anything else.. i am glad that Billick got exposed today by the seemingly non-existent bengal defense.

Also, I wasn't aware that the offense couldn't advance a muff punt.

CIN - go for it on 4th down.

Instead, missed field goal and decent field position.

Ye Gods., we are all professionals here ...

Why kick the FG there? Either way it's a two score game. Now the Ravens have decent field position.

... good thing they're trying to win the game with 5-yard passes in bounds.

Billick/McNair: you are down by 2 TDs - why are you even trying 4 yds & 1 yd passes?

This has been a pretty strange game over all.

Hey, wouldn't the "31st worst" defense in the NFL be the 2nd best?

#85 - Billick realizes they don't DESERVE to win this game.

Stand up guy.

I was very impressed by the pass protection on both sides, especially by the Bengals.

All game, McNair was dumping it off with good protection on downs where he needed yardage. 3rd and long? Dumpoff coming. Down 13 with 5 minutes left? Dumpoff.

But he just threw a long TD. That took all game.

Hey, look at what going deep does for you! Maybe you should've tried that in the first 59 minutes!

Oh, come on, Collinsworth, you know the ball is wet, but you don't know that it is slimey.

RE: 79

The returner has to establish possession first. Ivy didn't. Needless to say, having your 3rd string punt returner trying to catch a ball under pressure in the rain is a recipe for disaster.

lol, now I'm listening on the radio. The announcers are falling all over themselves praising the great Steve McNair, how a lead is never safe with him on the other sidelines. This is too damn funny.

And an appropriately terrible onsides kick to end the game.

1-10-CIN49 (2:22) (Shotgun) S.McNair pass short middle to T.Heap to CIN 48 for 1 yard (K.Ratliff; B.Simmons).
2-9-CIN48 (2:00) (Shotgun) S.McNair pass short left to M.Anderson to CIN 44 for 4 yards (D.Jackson).
3-5-CIN44 (1:35) (Shotgun) S.McNair pass incomplete deep left to D.Williams.
4-5-CIN44 (1:29) (Shotgun)
PENALTY on BLT-S.McNair, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 44 - No Play.

That's the ballgame in a nutshell right there.

I was on my way home during the Cincy drive following the muffed punt, and I don't understand what they did. Did Baltimore call a timeout after the 3rd down run? Also, why the heck would they attempt a long FG there in the rain? Go for it.

F#ck it! Sexy Rexy for MVP!

The amazing Steve McNair, ladies and gentlemen. He just wins games!

Mason's pushoff will ensure that nobody will critize McNair for his crappy play all next week. I mean, that was clock management on the level of Herman Edwards. Delay of game on 4th and 5?

and the bengals have a chance to meet the ravens again in the playoffs (#3 vs #6). I think the Bengals can very well be the Pits Steelers of '05., they just need the defense to come good and pouring rain from today through super bowl.

Steve McNair is who Sid thought he was......

I still can't believe McNair spiked it on 3rd and 1 in the red zone.

I think the ad for the next thursday night football game, Browns vs Steelers, is one of the funniest things I've seen/heard in quite some time.

Mordin: Can you believe that in the first half, Ravens were at the CIN 30 with 1/2 time-outs and 1:20 to go and still came away with ZERO points.

1. Yeah you could get this game in HD with comcast, if you had INHD

2. I like these announcers. Gumble's voice is a little whiney, but overall I find them to be one of the very lesser of many many evils.

3. Apparently Billick borrowed the Texan's offensive playbook for this game. Too bad he couldn't borrow Andre Johnson and David Carr as well.

the whole HD thing has me kind of confused. I've read in multiple places, including here, that DirecTV's channel 95 is supposed to be NFL Network in HD. But where I was, there was no channel between 68-100, and I kept looking, but 212 was the only listing for the game. Maybe it depends on the area or something.

I think it's safe to say that there will be a new DVOA leader next week.

104 - you also have to buy the HD package, and have an HD receiver. the HD channels are mostly 70-99...

I'm a little disapointed at the no-call on Mason's psuh off. Otherwise, that is back to back shut outs for the beleagured Cincy D. Helps that they;re playing the Ravens and Browns, however.

Kudos to Wilkerson filling in there with good pass protections (the backs did phenomenally in that dept), but they need to improve their run blocking and get Rudi going.

In the big picture, it may be a good thing that we didn't get two shutouts (opponents held scoreless for seven quarters and fourteen minutes, dammit!) in a row. Our defense doing that, even against weak offenses...well, I think it would've been a sign of the apocalypse.

39 I am not a big fan of gun ownership, and I am defintely not a big fan of driving drunk. But DUI sint a violent crime, and firign a gun in the air really isnt terribly dangerous.

Firing hundreds of automatic weapons into the air when there are large crowds around is, but that is hardly the same thing.

As despical as a DUI is it really is a completely different class of crime from say holding a knife up to a womans throat and taking her purse.

RE #48 - Zip

"How is DUI a violent crime? The “firing a gun in the air� analogy seems pretty accurate to me.

But I probably just don’t understand your amazing intellect."

Try saying that to the husband and child of the woman Leonard Little killed during ONE OF his drunk driving violations.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and think you really didn't think that statement through when you wrote it.

Sorry for the repetitive post. Didn't realize Leonard Little had been brought up yet. It still suprises me how easy he got off, and how many people don't even know about it. Not to mention that he's been pulled over a couple times after that event for DUI.

CIN fan - I agree with the non-call on the Mason TD. But I also thought, if the players were switched and the DB kinda "shouldered" the WR to get in position, I'm thinking that PI *would* have been called. I don't think the rules say anything about what a defender can't do that a offensive player can do (except maybe hands in front of face).

Also, can someone please re-post the website where the former NFL Ref goes over why (or why not) calls were made in prev wk's games? -- thanks!

#110

“How is DUI a violent crime? The “firing a gun in the air� analogy seems pretty accurate to me.

But I probably just don’t understand your amazing intellect.�

Try saying that to the husband and child of the woman Leonard Little killed during ONE OF his drunk driving violations.

Leonard Little was correctly convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Doesn't mean the other crime he committed (DUI) is a violent crime.

I'll assume you had only read my first post on this (48) when you responded, so I don't have to repeat myself.

OK, now I'm absolutely, totally, and in all other ways confused about what constitutes pass interference and what does not. I think of myself as fairly knowledgeable about the rules, but I really can't tell what's incidental and what's interference anymore.

On Mason's TD, both he and the DB were in position for the ball. The DB was slightly better positioned; if he hadn't "fallen" Mason would have had to jump up in the air to catch it over his head. Both were turned looking for the ball, but Mason very clearly reaches out behind him and pushes the DB to the ground well before the ball gets there, making the catch possible for him and him alone. I know heads turned around often gives a pass on contact, but I wouldn't think that was the case when it was that blatant (or even if it is not so blatant--ask Artrell Hawkins or Asante Samuel). A good point was raised--if Mason and the DB were switched, and the DB did that to Mason, don't you think DPI would have been called?

I don't really care about either team, so I'm not a homer. I just saw something that frequently has been called in other games go uncalled, and it's happening all year. It was game changing. Could the league PLEASE get all refs on the same page regarding what PI is, and then get the memo to the teams? Call it strict or call it loose, but make up your mind!

So why wasn't the muffed punt a Cincy TD? The kicking team is only allowed to advance a muffed punt if the reciever first establishes possession and fumbles? Otherwise, it's a dead ball at the point of recovery? Is that correct? I hadn't known that.

meant to say "CIN fan here" in prev post -- but I just like to see a game called correctly, which leads me to:

are the game charters or anyone indicating when a play involves a questionable call -- to see which officiating crews might be "umpire-challenged"? I have a feeling that certain crews just suck.

Also, on the play where CIN85 got called for OPI -- the OPI was obvious, but it seemed to me that Chad HAD to push away because he was being held/interfered beyond the 5 yd limit. I am DVR-less/TIVO-less/replay-less, so I can't verify. I might easily be wrong.

#114 MJK

Both were turned looking for the ball, but Mason very clearly reaches out behind him and pushes the DB to the ground well before the ball gets there, making the catch possible for him and him alone

In my opinion, he didn't push the DB to the ground. There was some contact and the DB went down, but I didn't see any major shove, and I don't think it was the reason the DB fell. I can see an argument for offensive PI here, but I would've called that incidental contact.

Am I the only one that likes Collinsworth & Gumbel? They don't talk as much as other broadcasters which is a bonus and they both seem to stay away from saying truly stupid things every couple minutes.

Vince Young wins football games?

I think it's more appropriate to say that the Titans defense (led by Pacman) and O-line + Travis Henry's corpse win football games, and occasionally Young helps out.

zip,

At the beginning of the year, I would have called that incidental, too. But after half the crazy stuff I've seen this year, I thought for sure that there would be a flag. There just doesn't seem to be very much consistency.

I'm also bothered by the feeling that, had the players' positions been reversed, the DB probably would have been called for PI, or at least would have been more likely to be. Do other poeple agree with that feeling?

RE-MJK-120

MJK, you know I agree. I'm thinking that way too often the offensive player is getting the benefit of the doubt on PI. Same with roughing the passer. And in a lot of cases, these iffy penalties are the differences in the ballgame (as CIN fan, I'm thinking of the end of the TB game -- admittedly, the game should not have been that close in the first place).

All the officials need to get on the same page with these calls. And if they cannot be made consistently, they absolutely MUST be reviewable.

Hey, maybe the NFL can take a page from the NHL and have all replays be handled by a single group in the league headquarters!

Another slate of games up ahead. Here's a few thoughts assuming the crazy NFL season continues.
1) Look for the Giants to dismantle the Cowboys. Every anointed Super Bowl team has gone on to lose.
2) I expect we'll see Michael Vick put up ridiculous numbers this week and then everyone will be talking him up again.
3) Seattle over Denver and Cutler looks horrible.
4) I hope Ten-Ind is a good game, but I think Indy will dominate.
5) KC-CLE and GB-NYJ could be surprise good games of the weekend
6) I've completely written off Chicago. I just hope they don't kill Brad Johnson.
7) Another test for SF... I'm not familiar with their defense.
8) Panthers-Eagles is intriguing if only to see which Panthers teams shows up.

It's frustrating yet exciting to watch the NFL these days. I don't remember so many inconsistent teams (like the whole NFC). Why are the players so inconsistent?

Question:

Is anybody else having a hard time with NFL.com? The pages load so slowly it's impossible to use. I'd just like to know if it's my computer or their website.

RE: 116

So why wasn’t the muffed punt a Cincy TD? The kicking team is only allowed to advance a muffed punt if the reciever first establishes possession and fumbles? Otherwise, it’s a dead ball at the point of recovery? Is that correct? I hadn’t known that.

Yep.

RE: 123

Yes. I've had some problems with nfl.com the last 2 days. Seems to be better now, though.

Just a random question. Is it legal for a defensive player to contact a receiver more than 5 yards downfield on a flea-flicker or HB option pass?

I would think it would be since the offense is faking a run... so at some point that receiver is considered a blocker.

We got to see some classic McNair on that drive. Let 20 seconds run off the clock, look clueless, and start jogging off the field. Ummm, run the damn play. If you’re going to call a timeout, you have to call it immediately after a play. You don’t line up, run clock, and then call a timeout.

I was thinking that if we had seen a few more things, we truly could have summed up McNair's career in one shot. As McNair was cluelessly jogging off the field, wasting time and timeouts both, he trips over his own feet, falling and bruising his chest. He is listed as "questionable to return", yet heroically comes back in the 4th quarter, plays horribly, ensuring a Baltimore loss. Then we would get to hear the announcers gushing about how the "tough" McNair displayed great "heart and courage", in returning to lead his team to defeat.

Hey, this just in: Luck IS sustainable. Apparently Indy's FG % against has been low for over 1.5 seasons. Nobody knows why, including FO, but the % spread between NFL average and "when going against Indy" is pretty amazing--20 percentage points. 27 games and counting. Maybe they see all those short defenders and assume they cannot get blocks, then relax a bit too much.

Now it's time to see who's "good" on fumble recoveries and see if they can keep that going....

Link at my name.

Weather in Chicago: High of 15 with 17mph winds. Single digit windchill.

RE: 128

That is really bizarre. I can't think of any good explanation. You'd think the % against would be higher than the NFL average, given that half the Colts' games are in a dome.

Bobman,

It's because Bill Polian roughs up the opposing team's kicker before every game...

What happens if you look at "home" and "away" games separately? And if you throw in Indy's attempts for "home" games? Is it perhaps something to do with the RCA dome?

Making a FG isn't completely dependent on just a team's kicker, even if DVOA treats it so. There are ST tactics that the other team can employ that makes his life more difficult--some teams are better at blocking so the kicker has to try to put the kick higher, some are better at edge rushing so the kicker has to change his angle slightly or rush his kicks, some teams may even be better at sneaking in illegal techniques like jumping on each other to get more height. Not saying the Colts do anything like this, but it's possible. And if only a couple teams are better than average at this skill, and there's a wide variance in this behavior anyway, it wouldn't be obvious and wouldn't necessarily increase the predictive power of DVOA...

There also could be a mental aspect. Maybe the pressure of kicking against the Colts, who you know are going to put up a lot of points and probably turn the game into a shootout, gets in some kicker's heads.

Shawn Springs = Inactive for Redskins...

Maybe Kenny Wright could match up against Atlanta's receivers.

IRC.
Channel #FO.
Server bendenweyr.dyndns.org.

Wii.

49ers @ Saints or Falcons @ Redskins followed by Dallas @ Giants or Houston @ Oakland. Another tough choice for the late game.

The Falcons will win today because the Washington cheerbabes are overdressed.

Bears fumble opening kickoff...

Vikings recover opening KO fumble by the Bears. Nice closeline by Griffen to knock the ball loose.

Jets at Green Bay. Does anyone other than Nick Mangold's disturbingly fat and neck-free sister want to see this game?

The vikings offense responds to this opportunity by going 3 and out with 2 penalties. They did get the punt inside the 10 though.

I'm watching the Rams game in one of my screens. Did you know that it's illegal to have a run defense? Apparently someone told that to the Rams.

Don't like the monochrome Saints unis.

And the first team to reach the end zone on the day is the Browns?

TD Cards. The Rams were pretty balanced on defense, matchign their lack of run defense with a horrid pass defense.

Marcel Shipp? How many goal line carries can Edge owners even hope for, and the one chance he has, Marcel Shipp steals the TD?

Jason Campbell needs to learn to slide. Other than that, great drive for the Skins, with a Betts TD to cap things.

Vikings continue to add to their penalty stats, wiping out a long punt return by Moore, instead of midfield they start inside their 5...

nfl.com gametracker currently says 1-0, arizona.

Alex Smith looks horrible so far. Looks like the bad SF offense has shown up so far.

150: They're just trying to look as bad as the Saints' uniforms.

sigh, Brad Johnson while being held throws up a duck that is intercepted by the Bears. Bad decision.... Bears first down at the vikes 22. Lets contrast how they do with their turnover with what the Vikes did...

3rd & 2 for the Vikes, play fake ignored by Ogunleye who nearly sacks Johnson as he rolls out, but Tank Johnson gets there just as Johnson throws a woeful pass over all of his guys and right to Danieal Manning for the pick.

The announcers just said that Reche Caldwell's 2 receptions today are a career high....

Now, I know they probablt meant hes hit his career high for the season, but C'mon.

Rex gives it right back, intercepted by Napoleon Harris.

Grossman repicks Brad Johnson. Viking ball.

And Evil Rex returns the favor, throwing one right to the Vikes on 3rd and 10.

Rex is a very naughty boy, only ccoal in his stocking this year.

I suppose that should say regifts actually.

The Saints' unis do look pretty bad. At least it's black and not some newfangled color. Maybe the Saints want the lights out in the Superdome so the other team can't see them.

Re: 154

Actually, they said he "has a career high on the season".

The thing about both picks, Johnson's and Grossman's, is that there was no one near the defender when they caught the ball. Neither was a 50/50 ball or a great play made on the ball. The ball went right to the defender.

3 & 1: Peyton ., why are you throwing? Hasn't Addai been good to get the yard.

That was a GREAT move by Brees to avoid the sack. Horrible zone blitz pickup by the left tackle.

4 straight 3 & outs in New Orleans. I wasn't expecting a defensive battle.

And now V Young is intercepted. Ye gods., we are all professional here

holy turnovers batman. Vikings catch and fumble.

160: Maybe they want to increase liquor sales in the Dome so that people will dull their senses...

Did anyone had R. Cadwell in their loser league team. He is gonna ruin your day.

3 long passes from T Brady. What a day

Pennington is picking apart the Packers so-called defense.

It's like the defense decided that after playing well against Minnesota they didn't have to do anything more the rest of the season. The last 2 plus games every aspect of the defense has been terrible. Run defense bad, secondary worse, and everyone looking confused.

Geez....

If Hollis Thomas is showing some ups, then there's a problem...

I just dont understand how on 4th and 1, other teams are lookin for anything other than the Tom Brady QB sneak....

If that's Marvin Harrison instead of Antonio Bryant, I bet they don't pick up the flag for PI.

Also, Alex Smith threw another bad pass. He also had Battle open over the middle.

On a first and ten Brad Johnson calls a qb sneak. got 3 yards though.

Phantom defensive holding call on a play where Johnson was sacked keeps the vikes drive going.

Is it only me who sees that L Maroney has not lived up to the hype generated by the experts. As of now, he has 14 yds on 4 carries and seem to me Addai might be the better RB of the first round draft (oh., do i need to tell Reggie Bush is still missing)

I have to confess to being torn about the rest of the season. Part of me understands that only by losing 10 plus games will the Packers get another high pick. And that supposedly improves their chances of getting a better player in a draft that looks pretty good.

But it's one thing to lose games and it's another to just get shoved around non-stop.

By the way, Favre is getting completely hammered by the Jets. The Pats games has clearly been viewed by other teams who are geting the same results. And GB has obviously not adjusted.

First first down of the game. Brees to Horn. Looks like Joe caught that one in a bad place.

Gore: 3 Carries for -1 yds; Drew Brees 3/7 for 30 yds. Some fantasy owners are having a bad start

Hey Sophandros,
what's the deal with the Saints o-line? they seem to be having a lot of trouble on the blitz pickups. Earlier the color guy said that the Saints had allowed the second fewest sacks so far.

Jets are manhandling the Packers D-line. KGB just got stoned by a tight end. This is sad.

Right now, Bush leads Gore...

Another good blitz by SF. Their defense is playing quite well today.

Kaeding makes his first field goal in what seems like a month (I've had him on fantasy team and it was just a slew of extra points, their efficiency was killing my team...)

After about a solid minute of praise for the vikings run defense, Jones rips off a 16 yard run on 3rd and 3.

Re: 178

The backseat of a Volkswagen?

Crowd booing the Packers.

Loudly.

185: That would be a very uncomfortable place.

Pats: 17 plays for 81 yds and a Field Goal. I read somewhere that the Pats offense needs to have it picture perfect to get a TD this season and rank in the bottom half for TDs from outside the red zone - both explainable because of lack of a big time playmaker WR. I have suddenly started believing in that.

LT 51 yds run for Touchdown. And then there are other RBs

The Falcons just proved why going for it on 4th down on the other side of midfield isn't always a good idea.

Antoine Winfield, Rex Offender.

The Bears have now committed a turnover on their first three posessions.

Should have gotten a facemask as well. Rex Grossman is the new ROBOPUNTER!

And Derek Anderson comes in for Frye and immediately looks less inept. Two plays in may be a bit premature for prognosticating, but Frye's got me impatient.

180: The Saints line isn't really that great. They don't give up a lot of sacks because of the system--Brees gets rid of the ball quickly. Also, until today, teams didn't seem to blitz the Saints that much because doing so would leave Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Joe Horn, and Devery Henderson in one v. one situations. That's not good. But today, it looks like the Niners have decided that it doesn't matter if their guys are locked up 1v1 if Drew is on his back.

Stupid throw by Rex.

Why would you have Chad Scott to cover Williams - one of the top 5 WRs in NFC?

Shouldn't the Falcons line up in a 3 receiver set to spread out the defense on that one? There were what, 4 defenders over the center and guards? Teams seem to have success on fourth running when they spread the D.

Jets had 175 yards in offense in the first quarter.

Nick Collins had another chance for an interception but allowed the ball to go through his hands and the receiver caught the ball. This has happened five times in the last six times by my count.

It's bizarre.

Nice trick play by SF. Direct snap to Gore, end-around to Gilmore. First down. Nice play.

I think Vick is the least of the Falcon's problems. That D is awful and of course the receivers. Brian Finneran, please be healthy next year.

Indeed, I spoke too soon. Damn Browns. I should spend game day eating nachos, not my words.

Touchdown Jets. 17-0.

This is a mismatch.

And the boos are RAINING down on the field.

Its looks like me playing Ahman Green against that awful jets running D isnt gonna matter.

The Rams D is making Edge look good- 8 carries, 48 yards.

The MIN CHI game is going to be decided by defense scores not offensive ones.

Vikings run 3 times for 2 yards each, plus a false start. That Grossman INT might work out ok, as Hester gets a shot....

Yikes...kitna is gonna have a rough day

I swear I typed that before it happened... the Vikings had him wrapped up and didn't finish the tackle.

Your Pro Bowl Punt Returner Devin Hester with another return for a TD. Four white jerseys all around him after he picks up a bouncing kick and he still took it back.

Have Frank Gore and Alex Smith fallen out? That was a textbook 'Hospital Pass'.

It should be noted that Arnez Battle is a Louisiana native, which means that he is bound to have a good game against the Saints...

Agreed James, that pass could have put Gore in the hospital and given the Saints a quick six.

The key to that Hester return, however, was that the bears didn't commit any penalties on the return (contrasted with Moore's return of about the same length where the vikings did).

Based on what we've seen, the Bears will win this game, and penalties will be the biggest reason why.

At this point the Bears could win it easily if they didn't throw another pass.

These Niners are crafty, I tell you...

Re #206

At least Edge got 8 carries. He killed my LL team last week.

Just noticed that despite Bethel Johnson (nice return of the kickoff to the 40) being on the Vikings, Brad Johnson is still wearing "B. Johnson" on his jersey. Thought they had to be more specific when two players had the same first initial and last name...

Part of that 29th ranking is talent, sure, but another part of it is playing the #1 rushing offense twice a year.

Everything going right for the Jets. Beautiful game to watch

also:

1-3-STL3 (12:35) J.Arrington left guard to SL 3 for no gain (L.Glover).
2-3-STL3 (11:31) M.Leinart pass incomplete short left to A.Boldin.
3-3-STL3 (11:27) M.Shipp up the middle to SL 1 for 2 yards (J.Kennedy).
4-1-STL1 (10:48) M.Shipp right tackle to SL 2 for -1 yards (C.Wroten).

Good return by the beer man. It seemed more like bad coverage than good blocking.

Big return by the Beer Man. That's what we need. The crowd are getting into it now.

Holt just dropped what would have been an 85 yard TD if he had caught it in stride.

I'm a vikings fan and I'm not going to defend that roughing the passer call. I still don't think the vikings punch it in though.

Agreed, the Saints' rushing defense is middle of the pack in DVOA.

Apparently Urlacher got a penalty for "flexing his muscles" as he hit johnson.

Re:219---

I guess Denny Green is passively-aggressively giving Edge what he demanded in the press: for the Cards to run the ball at the goal line.

These roughing the passer calls are really out of hand. Christ let them play football.

Nice run by the Saints. Bush lined up a WR fakes the end around, and the D froze. McAllister went off tackle for 18.

Schottenheimer (Kurt) must go!

Nice run by Deuce, due in part to the use of Reggie as a decoy.

Yeah I switched to that Bears game and I don't grok that call at all. That's going to be a huge change this offseason. Turned out not to be gamechanging though.

My god, Deuce got about 7 yards by himself with half the 49ers team trying to shove him back.

Wow, great second and third efforts by reggie bush to get them down to the 1 yard line.

That was Reggie Bush, not Deuce. He really juked that LB out of his shoes.

Is that last run the sort of thing Reggie Bush used to do in College?

24-0 Jets. This may read as hyperbole, but I honestly have not seen a Packer team get THIS steamrolled. Even last year it never looked this bad.

Just bad, bad, bad.

What a play by Reggie.

Wow.

anyone see that call on chad scott?

bull. absolute bull.

One of the best runs I've seen in ages. They should review it just because he deserves the TD for that effort.

Meanwhile, it's now 14-3 Cards meaning I'm probably the only person outside of STL or AZ watching it.

You wouldn't think it from the way the game has gone, but the Green Bay D has gotten away with several occurrences of obvious holding and/or interference. They finally call something, on Nick Barnett. That set up the TD to make it 24-0.

235: Yes, but in college the catch would have been at his own 30 or 40 and he would have scored. He also would not have been touched.

Here comes a big challenge. Bush fumbled while going into the end zone, but it looks like he scored.

What's with the Bears shredding the Vikings run defense? This is supposed to be the unit that will displace the 2000 Ravens as the greatest rush defenders of all time? The cold should be their friend.

235: Yes. I tivo'd just about every USC game last year, just to fast fwd through to watch Bush's runs. He was the most exciting runner I'd ever seen at any level.

He'll be a good one in the NFL.

Kewl., the lions are mounting a fight at the Pats. I want to see how NE responds with its offensive tools when we are down by 10.

Grossman falls down by himself on 2nd and 5. No one around him. Sits there until a Viking runs up and tags him. He had like 3 seconds to get up.

Re: 238

That was a terrible call. Way late, too.

The Pats still suck today.

Touch down, Reggie.

247

Oh, I agree they suck today. It doesnt help that theyre getting all sorts of phantom penalties, and detroit isnt getting called for anything.

Is Kyle Orton still on the Bear's roster?

Washington lets the Falcons off the hook with a dropped pass. Gotta believe the receiver (a TE or Fullback) would have picked up the extra half-yard.

How the heck is Detroit beating New England?

Remember 8 weeks ago when Rex Grossman was going to win the MVP award?

Yeah.

I feel bad for Rex.

well, I Think thats the first thing thats gone the pat's way all day.

Favre was hoping for bad weather. He got it, and he's been awful anyway.

Damn, that's a lucky break. Kevin Jones fumbles on the 2, Vrabel recovers.

Whew! Thanks Vrabel. Can the offense please show-up without penalties and sputtering?

Vick is 2/7 for 20 yards so far.

Ouch.

Maybe Rexy is just hungover from the celebration last night... in fact, maybe he's been hung over most Sundays after celebrating UF victories. Which means that he'll be sharp for the next few weeks, right?

Good call sending the Goose to Chicago. He's definitely got enough blubber to keep him warm in those frigid conditions.

Re: 252

Pats D is playing terribly. Especially on third down. A couple of times, Kitna's been sacked or pressured the first 2 downs and then a WR gets completely open on 3rd down.

They just compared Artrell Hawkins to James Earl Jones and Barry White...

I'm missing the NFLN announcers right now.

favre throws a deep bomb and nails dyson with the ball.

Having Hollis Thomas land on you can't be good.

Bears scoring time, Vikigns punting from their 20 (4th and a foot).

Bills just got screwed with a call.

EVERYTHING going right for the Jets. Coles fumbled but Cotchery flew on it right after the ball popped out

The punt goes all of 20 yards, but bears all around the ball as it comes down, hits a bear, scrum, and Vikings have their 4th turnover of the game.

261

The defence hasnt been good, but the offense has been just as bad, if not worse.

Thats 2 special teams fumbles lost and a TD for the Bears so far.

Randall Godfrey out for the game.

Don't heap dirt on Vick yet. He's still alive, digging out of the grave one finger at a time.

And the Saints' defensive line has awakened. This is also without the Fresh Prince.

Patrick Pass, in a rare run, shows why he doesn't get more carries. Fumble. Detroit ball at the 15.

Hey, the Falcons finally showed up!

And yes, Hollis Thomas is huge. You know that when he gets a sack off of a stunt, it's gotta be a coverage sack.

ooo... marcus robinson wide open down the sideline and johnson overthrows it.

The Saints have woken up on both sides of the ball. That was an impressive 3 & out.

All Brad Johnson does is suck.

Some of the Saints improved d-line play can probably be attributed to Adam Snyder's injury. SF doesn't have great depth.

Why did the Titans just run the same shotgun draw play to Travis Henry three plays in a row?

so vikes go 3 and out, and punt again, most exciting play of the game.

and another 20 yard punt. This time entire bears team sprints away from the ball.

That's going to hurt Henderson's average per catch...

I somehow like Wilson (Cardinals) as a pro bowler than roy williams (5 INTs) for the NFC safety. I think he might be the only pro bowler from the team

I've been very impressed by Brees so far. He really responds well to pressure and good coverage. Contrast that to Aaron Brooks--I know people have mentioned that improvement before, I'm just seeing it for the first time today.

Falcons had their much too frequent 'and goal' from beyond the ten-yard line, but the pass is on the money and Crumpler hauls it in.

Brad Johnson overthrew it? Really? The Vikings' Brad Johnson?

Without Horn or Colston in there, the Saints passing attack is much more bland. Henderson is better as a 2 or 3, not a 1.

It's the 2 minute warning and there has been less than 200 yards of offense by both teams combined in the Bears-Vikings game.

What has been going on with the Rams lately?

BTW, Pennington has 227 yards with 2 minutes left in the first half.

Favre has 35 and a pick.

Has brady thrown a pass today that hasnt been underthrown? Because I havent noticed one yet.

Can someone let me know what happened to Doug Gabriel after the first few weeks. He was good and had a fumble and has disappeared after that.

286 - well it might have been wind-aided.

The American Idol girl singing "Stormy Weather" can be Miss Right Now.

Maynard got more yards on one punt than Chris Kluwe had on his last 3.

So nobody is watching the nascar awards on nbc?

But for football ball related talk, for who asked why the titans ran the shotgun draw 3 times in a row, just watch the first drive of the first game the played against each other.

292

He had like 3 fumbles in 2 games.. other than that, I dont know. I think Caldwell is just better than he is.

Surprisingly, Caldwell seems to ALWAYS be open.

Huh. My mom used to live in the neighborhood where the Niners went to paint that school.

As a Giants fan, boy am I jealous of that Jet's offense. I mean damn. So clean and well executed.

The vikings deactivated Troy Williamson, so the other Vikings receivers decided to take up the ball-dropping slack.