Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 15 SNF/MNF Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion of action on the field during and after Week 15 Sunday Night Football between San Diego and Kansas City as well as Monday Night Football between Cincinnati and Indianapolis.


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Comments

1
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 9:41pm

ugh, can't watch football night in america as it means getting a pre-game dose of Mellencamp.

2
by Independent George (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 9:48pm

Ok, maybe this is the beer talking, but FNiA seems to have gotten much better tonight. Less hype, less yelling, less transparently fake camraderie, plus some decent analysis on playoff implications.

Am I imagining things?

3
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:03pm

Nice audio sync on the Jeff Garcia interview. Looks like dubbed movie.

4
by Kal (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:09pm

Well, FNIA still has Sharpe saying idiotic things like "Someone in Buffalo didn't pay their weather bill" as a segue from Lambeau field. It was truly bizarre. Is Sharpe at all related to Madden?

5
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:27pm

So much for the theory that the Chiefs would come out on fire for Lamar Hunt...

6
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:34pm

and there goes the record.

7
by Sid (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:35pm

LdT is just amazing.

8
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:35pm

LT IS THE GREATEST HUMAN BEING IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

9
by Jmurns (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:36pm

Just another cheap touchdown for LT (note: this comment is dripping in sarcasm)

10
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:36pm

From "Office Space" to Sprint commercials? Damn, that's depressing.

11
by johnt (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:37pm

Jeez. Not to take anything away from LT, but the Chiefs defensive players are just awful. This is going to be a redux of the game where the Steelers were up like 41-0 after the first half.

12
by ZS (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:37pm

#8: Every time I hear someone make a statement like that about LT, I think how much greater that statement would be if Kompressor said it.

Go on, look up Kompressor. We'll still be here.

13
by Rocco (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:41pm

Um, Trent? Donnie Edwards plays for San Diego. No need to throw the ball to him.

14
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:42pm

that pass was neil o'donnellesque

15
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:43pm

I wonder if players that abuse steroids draw more pf penalties ....

16
by ZS (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:46pm

Why do I have a feeling Phil Rivers may not complete a pass this entire game, and they'll still win 28-0?

17
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:48pm

Merriman's head is HUGE!

18
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:49pm

shawne "I only inject my steroids with the lights out" merriman

19
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:51pm

#12 - ok I looked it up. didn't much get it, and it wouldn't mean much to me if he said it.

20
by johnt (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:53pm

Poor Larry Johnson. Taking big hits is one thing, but getting smacked by Jamal Williams, his body just reversed course like he got smacked by a truck.

21
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:56pm

The Chief's O-line looks old and slow.

22
by ZS (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 10:56pm

#19: http://www.kompressormusic.com/mp3/

I reccomend "Destroy All Media" to get that LT CRUSH PUNY DEFENSE vibe.

23
by Harris (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:07pm

STALLONE IS #$^% 60! 60! He's the same age as Kornheiser. AAAAAgh.

24
by James C (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:11pm

Can someone tell me, if you rope the bull do you actually get an ipod?

25
by B (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:12pm

24: As the Cowboy told me, sometimes you rope the bull, and sometimes, the bull, he ropes you. However, either way, nobody gets an iPod.

26
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:19pm

I do NOT want a McD's gift card for Xmas ...

27
by B (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:21pm

26: Now you tell me. Seesh.

28
by James C (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:24pm

OK Diane Subway gift card for you

29
by ZS (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:24pm

Phil Rivers: Ending my fantasy season, one incompletion at a time.

30
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:26pm

Have you ever seen a 15 yarder declined to take a 10 yarder? guess the location was different.

31
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:27pm

[28] /// yippee!

just keep that Jared guy away from me ...

32
by Rocco (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:28pm

Why exactly are the Chargers bothering to throw at all?

33
by B (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:29pm

31: would you prefer Michael Strahan or John Lovitz?

34
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:30pm

do the chargers ever throw middle screens?

35
by johnt (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:32pm

I don't see what's so shocking to Herm. The punt went beyond the line of scrimmage, a Chiefs player touched it, then the Chargers got it. It seems exactly the same as a muffed punt.

36
by cd6 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:32pm

What is going on, how is this san diego's ball??

37
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:33pm

[33]

ooooohhh .... deal ... or no deal ...

38
by cd6 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:33pm

LT follows it up with a touchdown

this whole sequence has been bizarre

39
by andrew (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:34pm

what a call and..... OMG!!! LT!!

40
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:34pm

I gotta say that is a stupid rule.

41
by Adam Gretz (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:37pm

So where does this season by LT rank among the greatest ever. And i'm not talking about football. I'm talking ever. Any sport.

I know thats an insane question because there is no way to compare sports, but is this on par with Gretzky scoring 215? Or any of those seasons by Ruth in the mid 20's or Bonds in the early 2000's?

This guy is on another planet.

42
by Gus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:38pm

Could that have been a worse turn of events for the Chefs?

43
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:38pm

[40] .... it seems like S.D. should be able to recover the ball, but it would still be short of the 1st down marker, and they should lose the ball on downs

44
by B (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:39pm

41: Bonds, Ruth and even Gretzky were more of an individual performance than LdT is.

44
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:39pm

The punt went beyond the line of scrimmage, a Chiefs player touched it, then the Chargers got it. It seems exactly the same as a muffed punt.

Except for the fact that on a muffed punt, the kicking team recovers the ball past their original first down line. So the fact that there is no change of possession wouldn't matter.

46
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:40pm

43: exactly

47
by cd6 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:40pm

Finally, a clear explanation.

Even though it was "blocked" in that a SD player had a hand in it, the punt still traveled forward about 10 yards. Thus, it goes into the books as a forward punt.

After that, a SD player touched the ball, and essentially "muffed" it, allowing the kicking team to recover and regain possession, even though where the ball was recovered wasn't even beyond the first down marker.

I still feel like SD got robbed there though.

48
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:40pm

john .... the chiefs don't have to become 1-dimensional yet ... its not even halftime!

49
by mike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:41pm

My view on the play, and i'm not a fan of either team, is that the player trying to recover the blocked punt should have known the rule, as well as not tried to make the highlight reel by attempting to pick up the ball and score.

50
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:42pm

The shine has really come off Philip Rivers. He just looks like a bad rookie QB out there (I'm aware he's not technically a rookie).

51
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:42pm

I think that needs to be a rule change .... a muffed punt return recovered by the kicking team behind the 1st down marker should result in loss of possession on downs

52
by cd6 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:43pm

47

just ignore my post

smarter commenters than me figured it out without confusing SD and KC while typing

doh

53
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:44pm

49:
Well, sure, but the fact that neither the coach nor the announcers knew the rule makes it pretty hard for me to blame him too much. Not to mention, I think the ball might have been behind the line of scrimmage when he first decided to try to recover it.

54
by mike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:47pm

53:
We shouldn't be blaming the rule for not being known, but blaming the people for not knowing the rule. These men are paid highly and should know the rules of the game that pays them so well.

55
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:48pm

41 - I don't think it comes close to Dixie Dean's 60 goal season in 1927/28, for starters.

56
by James C (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:49pm

#41

If you are talking about any sport then a long way behind Don Bradman in 1930. The following series England had to resort to bodyline, but that is a story for another time and another website.

57
by DavidH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:50pm

54:
We shouldn’t be blaming the rule for not being known

Only thing I'm blaming the rule for is being stupid.

58
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:50pm

Green has an incredibly weak arm.

59
by Raj (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:50pm

#50. One difference between this game and last week's game against Den is that KC is getting good pressure. Against Den, he had all day to throw the ball.

60
by Old James (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:51pm

Trent Green now has twice as many pass attempts as Larry Johnson has rushes. What's going on?

61
by Jmurns (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:51pm

#50

Or does he look like Tom Brady last week? Every QB has a bad game. Let's just see how he does in the 2nd half.

62
by Diane (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:52pm

on a strict % basis, LDT hasn't surpassed the existing record like babe ruth broke the prior season HR record (as an example)

63
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:55pm

just got back to the computer from the bar, but you can never trust the officiating when Triplett is on the field. The blocked punt strangeness, but the "incompletion" by I think Neal (SD) is strange as well. I think John and Al were saying something about a completion being possesing the ball and the infamous vagueness of "making a football move".

Therefore, given that definition, if a guy catches the ball and just stands there for who knows how long, gets hit and fumbles -- since the receiver just stood there, is it not a fumble because a football move was not made?

NFL rules are getting strange.....

64
by David (not verified) :: Sun, 12/17/2006 - 11:57pm

60: Trent Green doesn't scare the Chargers for a second, so Johnson doesn't have anywhere to go.

65
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:02am

Herbert Sutcliffe in 1931 and Donald Bradman (the greatest player of any kind in any sport, ever, by a ridiculously huge margin) in pretty much any year between 1930 and 1948, excluding the war years, I would take too.

66
by DavidH (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:07am

65:
what sport are you talking about?

67
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:09am

James C (#56) - I actually think Bradman's performance during the Bodyline series is in some ways more impressive than in 1930. He averaged 56.57 for the series - which would make him one of the greatest batsmen ever if it was his career average, not a statistical low-point achieved against dubious tactics cooked up specifically to negate him which were subsequently banned.

I hasten to add that I am all in favour of doing absolutely anything within the rules (and nothing outside them) in order to win, and Jardine is a personal hero.

68
by James C (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:09am

#65

Cricket my dear boy.

69
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:10am

66 - Cricket. Drawn out response to the, "How does LT 2006 compare to great seasons in other sports" question, as I think of examples I think are more impressive.

70
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:12am

I'll never understand why teams running all over their opponents throw on third and two.

71
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:12am

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY

72
by Diane (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:14am

This is our country .... on an endless loop

73
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:17am

oh, and Donald Bradman doesn't compare to Coyolxauhqui that dominated the Aztec hard courts of Tlachtli back around 1400 BC...

74
by asg (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:17am

I don't think there were Aztecs in 1400 BC.

75
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:19am

What is this? Hmm.

Oh, wait, I know! I know! It's our country!

76
by James C (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:20am

Mr Shush

I take your point about the Don's play during the bodyline series. I do think however that an often overlooked fact about the bodyline tour is that Larwood reckoned he was a better bowler than he ever had ever been at that time of the tour. The political fallout of the bodyline tour (and the treachery of the MCC) meant he was never to play for England again. I suspect that at the height of his powers his skill, control and pace would have given even Bradman trouble under any circumstances(bodyline or no) on subsequent tours. We will however never know as he never played again.

77
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:20am

74 you're right, he was Olmec, just figured most wouldn't know the difference ;)

78
by Diane (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:21am

This is our running back ...

79
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:23am

of course I forgot Robo-punter, who statistically is a greater anomaly than LT...

(and if it wasn't clear, I was just saying its silly to compare things like that... and of course we should be comparing seasons, not careers, as LT's career is far from over.)

80
by James C (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:23am

This Tomlinson fellow is over rated. He simply can't score off the short delivery.

81
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:25am

Someone needs to tell Rivers he's winning the game.

82
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:25am

Rivers is pissed that he's found out he's not that good a QB.

83
by mike (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:26am

Rivers should be furious at 3 pass plays called in a row when LT is gaining that many yards in this game.

84
by Diane (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:27am

chris griffin? the chunky teenager on family guy?

85
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:35am

The dream is still alive
Someday it will come true
This country it belongs
To folks like me and you
So let the voice of freedom
Sing out through this land

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY

86
by B (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:37am

85: If my country is a Chevy Truck, then the terrorists win.

87
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:38am

Jesus, Lawrence Tynes can kick a football.

That was a 52 yarder, but it could have made it from 70.

88
by islandbob (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:42am

I'm confused. "This is our country," they tell me. But I live in Canada. Please help me.

89
by B (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:44am

On shows like "deal or no deal" do they coach the contestants to scream all the time, or do they only pick easily excitable people?

90
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:50am

Chevy never plays the rest of the song, which includes:

There's room enough here
For science to live
And there's room enough here
For religion to forgive
And try to understand
The other people of this world

and

That poverty could be
Just another ugly thing
And bigotry could be
Seen only as obscene
And the ones that run this land
Will help the poor and common man

but hey, at least our country isn't like rocks now.

91
by chrisv (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:51am

a rare bad call by the chargers. Splitting the QB as a wide reciever is stupid, it does not fake out anyone. It's not like the Defense will be surprised that the QB is not throwing the ball.

92
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:58am

#79 - Sure, but in so far as sensible comparisons are possible they're based around standard deviations from the mean (like FO's greatest running back analyses). Bradman is 4.4 SDs above the mean for cricket batting average; no other sportsman in a major sport is more than 3.7 above the average for that sport. Cobb is at 3.6 for batting average; Jordan 3.4 for points per game.

And I was talking about seasons: my claim was that pretty much any of Bradman's seasons was better. The "best sportsman of any kind" claim was kind of incidental.

Of course, it's far from clear that LT 2006 is even the best ever season by an NFL running back, never mind any sportsman. I'd certainly regard Manning and Rice's best seasons as more impressive, within the world of football.

93
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:00am

You know, sometimes Martyball is okay. Like when your quarterback is having a bad day, and your running back is incredible, and your team has a two score lead in the 4th quarter.

94
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:01am

Good job Rivers is having this game now, not in the playoffs. Strewth. Is this his answer to Brady's annual obligatory 5-interception game (which last year was also for the benefit of the Chiefs)?

95
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:03am

Come to think of it, I was starting Brady for that game and I'm starting Rivers for this. Amn't I lucky?

96
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:03am

24 From the research I read a while ago you actually will. But it may involve several hours of filling out forms online giving away all your personal information, and long distance phonecalls. But if you are persistant you will get it.

97
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:05am

Marty Schottenheimer needs to stop listening to his critics.

You have the best running back and the best backup running back. You have the best blocking fullback in the league to open up lanes for them. You have a lead in the fourth quarter. You have a struggling quarterback. Run the damn ball.

98
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:08am

#97 - Not to mention probably the best run-blocking offensive line, ALY ranking of 2 notwithstanding.

99
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:08am

I read up the stats stuff on Bradman, and I agree, incredible. However, given the era compared to today (and I'll admit I don't know that much about modern cricket compared to back then), I'd have to guess that today he'd not dominate as much as he did back then, its kinda of like that season Wilt had where he averaged over 50 ppg (next highest was also Wilt with 37 ppg). Most people acknoweldge its greatness, but maintain that he'd never average that today.... there's more people better (and bigger) now.

100
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:09am

97 - like they're doing this drive.

101
by Diane (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:10am

a screen to ldt could be lethal ....

102
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:10am

whoops spoke too soon. never mind.

103
by Diane (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:11am

Rivers doubles his passing yards for the game ....

104
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:11am

No way to they let LT throw here, though, right?

right?

105
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:12am

LT had about 1900 yards from scrimmage going into this game. He'll leave it with over 2100.

In addition to all of the other absurd records he's setting this year, Marshall Faulk's yards from scrimmage record isn't out of the question.

106
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:13am

89 I would assume both. I know when I was younger and had a desire to get on jeopardy (when I was 15), they said that pretty much everyone gets the questions right at the tryouts. The tryouts were all about following instuctions to a T, looking good and smiling well, and having interesting anecdotes. Also not buzzing in before the question was completely read.

So I think all game shows do this. And this is just mean being a sore non-contestant as the two times I was cajoled into trying out for a gameshow in my early 20s I got a perfect score on the little test thing, but was not selected.

There are tons of smart people out there, and they don't want really too knowledgable of people because the questions would alienate audiances.

107
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:22am

Green's receivers (and Johnson) really let him down that drive.

108
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:23am

Why is LT going in with 2 minutes left? records should not be the reason... making crowd happy should not be the reason.

109
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:24am

#99 - You'd think that, I know, but actually cricket batting averages have remained fairly constant over the years - at least since the First World War. Bowling techniques and speeds have not changed much, and neither have the balls. Standards of fielding are far higher now than they were in the past, so on that front it is harder for present day and recent batsmen, but on the other hand the bats are a lot better, the outfields are a lot faster (meaning more 4s), and, most importantly, modern pitches are "covered" - protected from the elements when not in use - which means the surface is more even and so the bounce of the ball far more predictable, especially on deliveries from spin bowlers.

On the other hand, going all the way back to my comment #55, that objection would absolutely apply to Dixie Dean's 1927/28 record goalscoring season in First Division soccer: there is no way in Hell Dean or anyone else could ever score 60 goals in a modern season. Even 40 would now be a miraculous achievement.

110
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:27am

I hope LT is ok (as he commes out to get looked at), but it would serve the Chargers right if he did get dinged here.

111
by David (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:30am

How awesome would it be if San Diego releases Turner after this year, and the Eagles pick him up? They'd finally have that power back they've needed for so long to round out their offense.

112
by chrisv (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:41am

111: Charger fans have been discussing the possibility of Turner leaving since the beginning of the season.

We love him in San Diego, but he is just to damn talented to be back-up RB. Or, to put in another way, it is doubtful we can afford to pay him what other teams will.

In any event I think he has an year left on his contract, so whoever takes him better be ready to give us some draft picks.

And I am not sure the Eagles can afford him either. He will probably go to some team that needs an honest to goodness first string running back. Maybe the Giants if Tiki retires.

113
by DGL (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:57am

Now we've got cricket discussions on FO message boards.

What's next? Modern Pentathalon? Curling? Jai-Alai?

114
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 2:17am

Jai-Alai is pretty cool.

115
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 2:34am

You know, over here people think I'm wierd for liking the NFL. In terms of committed global fanbase, I would guess that cricket is the world's second most popular sport, between soccer and baseball.

116
by Matt Weiner (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 2:40am

74/77: Didn't the Aztecs take over the Olmecs' franchise records?

117
by adwred (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 2:46am

115

No way -- cricket and baseball are certainly not the 2nd and 3rd most popular sports in the world.

118
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 2:57am

Have you ever seen a 15 yarder declined to take a 10 yarder? guess the location was different.

If they accepted the 15 yarder, it would've been after the runback. The 10 yarder just added 10 yards to the kick, basically. Thus, the field position garnered by declining the personal foul was greater.

119
by MFurtek (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 3:04am

Re: 118
They never showed the personal foul, but why couldn't they accept the block in the back and have the PF assessed as a dead-ball? I'd really like to know what happened on that play, if the personal foul happened during the play.

120
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 3:06am

117
You are aware of how large the population of

India + Pakistan + UK + South Africa + AUS/NZ is right?

It is very large.

121
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 3:42am

RE: 95

I'm in my league semifinals and I started Rivers over Jeff Garcia and Jay Cutler. And two weeks ago I started Rex Grossman over Jeff Garcia. :(

122
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 3:55am

RE: 119

The personal foul happened at the end of the play, so the penalty would be assessed after the runback. So it would be wherever the ball ended up, and then 15 yards from there. 10 yards added to the end of the kick was a much better outcome.

123
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 3:57am

ah, now I see what you're asking. if the unnecessary roughness were doing the play, then that's probably why it ended up that way (I'm guessing the unnecessary roughness happened during the play). If it was actually after the play, it should've been added on as a dead ball foul.

124
by Joon (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 4:02am

i think we can say that ladainian is having the greatest fantasy football season ever. probably the greatest fantasy season in any sport since the advent of fantasy sports.

as for all-time, i'd take bradman. or rod laver. or ruth. or dean, of whom i had never heard until tonight. but coyolxauhqui? she couldn't hold a candle to tezcatlipoca in his prime. though there are those who claim he was doing it with smoke and mirrors.

125
by MFurtek (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:43am

Re: 123 and previous
Gamebook says:
PENALTY on SD-28-S.Gregory, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at SD 22. Penalty on SD-52-C.Polk, Unnecessary Roughness, declined.

I'd really like to know what happened, but being a national primetime game I think they were cutting quickly to a commercial or sideline reporter.

Personal pet peeve: it seems like these primetime games are more and more scripted. When a drive starts, the producers decide they will cut to the sideline reporter after 1st or 2nd down. If anything interesting happens after those downs, they don't hold the cut, rather, they just keep going and don't show the replay. Even that "watch the booth talk" angle is like this.

126
by Rick (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:56am

re: 120
#1 soccer
#2 basketball

127
by Becephalus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:00pm

It was assumed in the original piece that football is more popular, and I would personally put my money of cricket over basketball. Cricket is huge in several large countires. Basktball is like second or third banana everywhere except the inner city US.

128
by Bobman (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:11pm

Hey, no power for 73 hours at my Seattle-area house. What's happened in the NFL this weekend? Surely the mighty Jags rolled over the... oh, crap. The surging Dolphins?

Wow, as I said to the wife Sunday dinner time, we better have power on in time for the Colts game. Which we do. All is right with the world again.

129
by Gaius (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 12:48pm

I understand the Tenochtitlan media bias, and both Coyolxauqui and Texcatlipoca were phenomenal.

However, allow us to point out no discussion of MesoAmerican ballplay is complete without appreciation of Bird Jaguar's feats for Yaxchilan of the Maya League.

130
by Fisher (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 1:43pm

Gaius -

While Bird Jaguar's feats are impressive and his upside was huge, he'll never be recognized as one of the all-time greats due to his suspension for feasting on the hearts of the vanquished. Sure, he claims it was only the entrails, but you don't get that kind of swagger from entrails.

The scandal taints any accomplishment and prevents Bird Jaguar from any serious discussion as one of the true legends of the game.

131
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 9:16pm

You really had to see Coyolxauhqui play to properly appreciate what he brought to the team. He played every game as if his life depended on it.

Alas, most of his exploits were carved on golden tablets (so great was his fame), and they were tragically melted down by Cortez for easier transport back to Spain.

132
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:14pm

Wow.

133
by Kal (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:36pm

#130: okay, that made me totally cry with laughter.

And #131, sure, Coyolxauhqui played great. But he was no ROBO-BEHEADER.

134
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:38pm

Ah, glad to see our commentators are at their idiotic best.

135
by Moridin (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:47pm

Wait, pulled from the game?! I think the fine is faily stupid, but good lord, is that an overreation.

136
by Tally (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:51pm

Beautiful sack from behind by Freeney. I was cringing from the TV angle seeing Palmer back right into that.

137
by Kyle (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 10:52pm

Why I act surprised about this is beyond me...

But did Joe Theismann just credit Dwight Freeney for chasing Carson Palmer down and causing that play to happen as it did? Maybe I am blind, but I could've sworn Freeney was pushed far upfield behind Palmer, and great pressure from the DT pushed Palmer back and to the right, perfectly in line for the well-out-the-play Freeney.

God damn Freeney, what a smart fella, knowing what would happen on that play.

138
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:01pm

The Colts line has been well beyond underwhelming on sweep runs so far. They run it right, everyone is being pushed upfield. They run it left, one blocker falls down and knocks down the other blocker.

139
by Bill (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:08pm

Thiesmann makes the valid point about Indy being vulnerable to cutback runs, and here, I think he's going to connect the dots that they're not as doomed this week because Rudi isn't a cutback runner (and missed the cutback lane on the prior play).

Alas, he remains his usual blabbering self.

140
by Moridin (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:09pm

That tackling made me cry.

141
by Rocco (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:11pm

Um, Colts? Tackling is a good thing. You might want to work on it one of these days.

142
by johnt (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:13pm

You know, the defense is essentially the only thing Tony Dungy does. And yet they're probably the worst in the NFL. At what point does he land on the hot seat?

143
by B (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:14pm

142: When the Colts fail to win the AFC South.

144
by perrin (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:16pm

"The strength to get over, and the strength to get over yourself."

Is the copy in the U.S. Army Reserve now being written by sassy teenage girls?

145
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:20pm

142:

The bigger question is how did he build a defense that won a Super Bowl in Tampa Bay the year after he left when the defense in Indy has been awful 3 years out of 4 he has been there.

146
by B (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:22pm

145: Two words. Monte Kiffin.

147
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:23pm

Can Theismann shut up about how much Peyton Manning impresses him?

148
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:24pm

just me, or is the 2nd layer of defense (LB level) playing WAY deep?

149
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:24pm

sorry, CIN defense

150
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:26pm

RE: 147

All of the ex-QB commentators have a massive boner when it comes to Manning. Don't count on it. At least it's not Phil Simms.

TD Colts. 10-3

151
by Bill (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:26pm

Zone from the 4 yard line. That seems odd.

152
by johnt (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:30pm

The Colts O line is getting manhandled on running plays. By the Bengals. Wait, Bengals run D?

153
by Marko (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:31pm

Stupid play by the kick returner. He should have put one of his feet out of bounds when he caught that kickoff. That would have placed the ball at the 40 yard line. I'm surprised more kick returners are not aware of that rule.

154
by Rocco (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:31pm

Why is ESPN playing Rush when they go into commercials?

155
by johnt (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:32pm

Adam Vinatieri's kickoffs are getting more rancid by the day. They could use someone who can really kick it. Hey, Mike Vanderjagt's sitting on his couch somewhere!

156
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:32pm

Say, man, you got a joint on you, man?

...It'd be a lot cooler if you did.

157
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:39pm

Theismann: "Dexter Reid had a shot at [Rudi Johnson]!"

Uh yeah, but who the hell expects Dexter Effing Reid to tackle Rudi Johnson? The Colts miss Bob Sanders a lot.

158
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:47pm

Free Manning the Runner!

159
by Paul (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:47pm

Ick, Matthew McWhatshisname is right down the street from my house. I'll probably see him wandering around the neighborhood later with his shirt off.

160
by Kuato (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:48pm

Crazy Legs Manning does it again.

161
by NF (not verified) :: Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:55pm

Joe Buck Mode:

"That was a disgusting selfish act by Peyton Manning! He has Addai right there, and what does he do? He fakes it to him then tries to run it in himself! A disgusting act that disgraces him and hurts his teams chance to win!"

162
by Bill (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:02am

The Bengals saw the Colts run defense, and came out trying to pound the ball... and earned themselves a 7 point deficit and 4 minute deficit in TOP. Nice job.

163
by Gus (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:02am

Chris Berman just came out and said it: "All Jeff Garcia does is win."

164
by johnt (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:05am

Looks like Palmer may have injured his arm on the hail mary. Personally I've never really understood the end of half hail mary, it seems like the odds of something going bad are about the same as the super rare occurence that it actually works.

165
by NF (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:11am

164:

They should have gone for the 68-yard FG.

166
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:20am

I'm a CIN fan, and I would have called a pass on IND's 4th and

167
by im_no_playa (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:21am

crap, tags hosed the post -- sorry -- i'll just retract my comment...

168
by jm (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:33am

Halfway thru the 3rd, Palmer is 5 of 10 for 67, with a fumble. That's not gonna cut it. (Granted, Chris Henry seems to have borrowed Jabbar Gaffney's gloves, can't blame Carson for that.)

169
by Bill (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:34am

So, the Colts are doing what they do best (precision passing, mixed with some running.)

The Bengals went away from what they do best to try and attack the Colts run defense.

Is it really any surprise that the Colts are controlling the clock and the scoreboard?

170
by Jabar Gaffney (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:39am

Hey! I caught a TD pass this week!

171
by Kuato (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:40am

Colts drives-
FG
TD
TD
TO on Downs TD

That is pretty friggin good. The Bengals are only in it because of the Special Teams turnover and the pretty good fumble recovery luck (3 of 4).

172
by Independent George (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:43am

Theismann actually had a really interesting point a few minutes ago - Palmer had #84 was wide open over the middle, except the umpire was directly between the two.

173
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:44am

I wonder what the royalties are like on a Rush song circa 1974?

Theismann probably separated his loose doobage on a "Fly by Night" album cover so it has some sentimental value, most likely.

174
by jm (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:49am

Tory James, please turn out the lights on our way out of the stadium, we can all go home now.

175
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:52am

This looks promising for Indy so far--D looks okay and Cincy blinked on offense. The key to winning these shootouts (Ind/KC in the playoffs and reg season a few years ago and Ind/Cin last year) is pedal to the metal for 60 minutes. FG's won't do it. Usually. The TO's change that a hair, but so far, so good for Indy.

176
by jm (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:56am

Is Chris Perry still alive? Not that Rudy's been bad at all, but Perry seems more the like the type of elusive back who gives the Colts the most trouble.

Instant edit: OK Kenny Watson isn't bad either.

177
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:58am

And Cincy blinks again. I love this.

Hey, I am "watching" via Internet since ESPN is down--any news on Addai getting injured after his long run?

Thanks.

178
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:59am

I want to know Manning's DPAR after this game.

179
by Bencoder (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:59am

#177 - High ankle sprain is what I've heard.

180
by Bill (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:59am

176 - No, Chris Perry is not alive. On IR with an ankle injury.

181
by jonnyblazin (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:00am

I think Perry has been injured.
Whats with these field goals? Its not like Cincy's D has shown it can stop the Colts. Getting within 15 is only a good play if you think there isn't gonna be any more scoring.

182
by Nathan (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:05am

Has Manning had an incompletion that wasn't off a reciever's hands tonight?

Rob Morris is having a large effect on this game by my count.

183
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:08am

I think people now view Rob Morris through the lens of a backup or special teamer. When he was a 1st rounder, he was considered a bust, but now that he's out of the spotlight, he's pretty good. Not great, but not 5 yards against, cover-your-eyes awful.

oops, Indy just blinked and only killed a minute of the clock.

184
by Nathan (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:10am

Well, I've always though Rob Morris was a good Middle linebacker that was a run stopper, and not really an ideal middle linebacker for a cover 2.

His problem I thought was coverage, but he was good against the run. I think we both watch the colts closely, was that your take too?

185
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:12am

Nathan,

More or less. he was drafted for that reason, and unfortunately, he wasn't quite Dan Morgan (who may not be Dan Morgan anymore after all his concussions) and the rest of the D was still struggling, under both Mora and Dungy.

He was a favorite media whipping boy, IMO, and I never quite saw why (aside from his draft status... and maybe the beard).

186
by Nathan (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:19am

I agree. At the time we were still reeling from Jeff George, Steve Entman, and Coryatt (I'm probably missing a few, very tired).

We were really looking at every draft pick as a bust unless we was excellent because any sign of even average reminded everyone of all the wasted picks.

187
by jm (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:21am

If the the Chargers are planning ahead, they'll buy whatever muck got dug up when the Patriots replaced their turf and spread it all over Qualcomm when the Colts visit in January.

188
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:28am

Nathan,
Plus the recent home run draft picks just before Morris were pretty good--Harrison, then Glenn and Meadows, then Manning, then Edge. Pretty tough competition. So again, to your point, anything less than pro-bowl level play is a failure.

He's handled his "demotion" well and was just on fire on special teams earlier this year.

189
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:33am

Hey, ESPN is back on. Did Mike Tirico just say "tributing" as a verb when talking about Lamar Hunt? As in the NFL was tributing all week.....

190
by Ben (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:35am

Morris came in as solid against the run, but couldn't handle the deep drop of the cover 2 MLB. I think they worked with him to try and improve his coverage skills, which then just may him indecisive and slow to react, so he wasn't good against either the run or the pass. He also has problems getting off blocks. It certainly didn't help that he was getting paid 1st round money.

I think the cover 2 SAM is a better place for him. His coverage responsibilities are fairly minimal (just the flats) and he mostly just needs to make sure he's in the proper gap on runs.

191
by islandbob (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:41am

Watching the game on ESPN while reading this blog; got up to make myself a cappuccino, puked in between.

192
by Purds (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 2:30am

Good game for the Colts D. They're not going to get better than that this year, unless Doss, Sanders, Bethea, Hayden and Raegor all of a sudden have miracle recoveries. For a thin defense to begin with, that's too many loses to dream about even being competent.

And, on offense, they need a third receiver (Proel, Clark?).

193
by turbohappy (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 3:16am

Re: 192

FYI, it's Jackson that's out, not Hayden. Both of their safeties tonight are third-stringers...if one of them goes down the backup safety was TJ Rushing who hasn't played safety since high school!!!!!!!

194
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 4:47pm

Thanks, Turbo, for the reassuring news. I think if that happens, they put Manning in at safety. We've seen him run okay this year and I saw him hit Eli in that ESPN commercial. Plus he's tall! No more Hail Mary passes!

Is Indy peaking at the right time? It would be a first for them, but my fingers are crossed. Everyone thought Cincy was pulling a 2005 Steelers the past month, and look what happens.

195
by Scott P. (not verified) :: Tue, 12/19/2006 - 10:51pm

Re #192: Do any of the talking heads on TV talk about the Colts injuries on D? 4 of their 2005 starters are injured (Sanders, Doss-IR, Reagor-IR, Simon-IR) & LB Thornton went to Tennessee. The DB's played amazingly against Cincy's great WR's & Pro Bowl QB.