Talk amongst yourselves
Top 35 quarterbacks charted for 2015 with scouting notes. PDF only $9.99
Click here to buy PDF version
Like our page on Facebook and get Football Outsiders links directly in your Facebook feed.
Official Account: @fboutsiders
Scott Kacsmar: @FO_ScottKacsmar
Ben Muth: @FO_WordofMuth
Aaron Schatz: @FO_ASchatz
Vince Verhei: @FO_VVerhei
-- plus --
Bill Connelly: @SBN_BillC
Cian Fahey: @Cianaf
Brian Fremeau: @bcfremeau
Tom Gower: @ThomasGower
Andrew Healy: @AndHealy
Rivers McCown: @RiversMcCown
Chad Peltier: @CGPeltier
Rob Weintraub: @robwein
Sterling Xie: @SterlingXie
Need help on FanDuel or DraftKings? Purchase a subscription from the website that specializes in daily fantasy.
This thread is for discussion of action on the field before, during, and after Week 6 Monday Night Football between Chicago and Arizona, a.k.a. "Funny, I never got hit like this at USC."
Joe Theismann's keys to this game:
Whether the Cardinals can run the ball and play defense, and whether the Bears can pressure Leinart and score.
Joe really knows how to get INSIDE the game.
Joe is currently having breakfast with Red Grange, Steve Owen and Chuck Mercein.
Joe Theisman just referred to Miami as "The M" and followed that up by talking about how Rex Grossman is "everything that Lovie Smith thought he would be in 2003 when Lovie SMith drafted him."
The only problems with that being:
1. Rex Grossman was drafted in 2003.
2. Lovie Smith wasn't involved with the Chicago Bears until 2004.
3. My brain tells me Lovie Smith could not have possibly drafted Rex Grossman.
Well, Red Grange is on Tony K's fantasy team.
OK folks ... I'm really looking forward to this game!
(mainly cause I wanna see the new stadium ...)
Sorry for posting off topic, but what does the stat "FK" mean for QB's?
Joe Theisman script:
The other day, I was having/at(insert meai or meal-type event or meeting or meeting-type event) with (insert name of player, coach, trainer, human, mascot, dog of player, etc.) and he mentioned to me that (insert very obvious football trite state, e.g., we have to tackle well to win this game).
Another semi-off-topic comment.
I know TO got 3 TDs yesterday...but does anyone else think he pushed off big time to get TDs one and two?
Theismann's mistake about the drafting of Rex Grossman came in his comments on Mike and Mike on ESPN Radio. Later, on the Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio, Theismann showed he was equally uninformed about the Bears defense, referring to Bears rookie DE Mark Anderson, who was tied for 3rd in the league with 5.5 sacks entering this weekend, as "Michael Anderson."
I think Mark Anderson is the "new" KGB. He's undersized for an every down DE, but man can he rush the passer.
It will be interesting to see if he makes Alex Brown an expendable player. There's talk that they want to lock up Tommie Harris with a new (gigantic, most likely) contract at the end of this season. If they do that, bring Briggs back, and do a new contract for Grossman, that doesn't leave much for guys like Brown.
The new "Man Laws" commercial where they take fans to task for using the stale "D" "Fence" props and suggest alternatives was awesome... I love alternatives: "B" "Lock", Nickel & Dime (Jimmy Johnson) and "Off" "Fence" (Eddie Griffin).
Cid (11) - Alex Brown is under contract through 2009, as is Ogunleye. Brown got a pretty reasonable contract too, I believe. 15M over 5, IIRC. Harris is under contract through 2008, but we will probably lock him up forever early. The way we rotate d-linemen, there is no reason for us to move Alex Brown.
Alex Brown already got a multi-year contract extension a year or two ago. He is under contract for several more years already. No way they let him go, espectially with their emphasis on quality depth on the defensive line. More likely gone after this year is Ian Scott, whose contract expires after this year. Tank Johnson is now starting ahead of Scott, and Dusty Dvoracek should be back from his injury next year to replace Scott in the rotation.
And what makes Theismans comment about Grossman and Lovie Smith even more unreal is the fact that Lovie Smith and the Bears had so much faith in Rex Grossman that they used a first day pick on Kyle Orton last year.
Orton was a fourth rounder.
Still, it's a mistake he shouldn't have made. And he was so damned sure of it.
"LOVIE SMITH KNEW WHAT HE WAS GETTING WHEN HE DRAFTED HIM!"
Actually, Orton was a second day draft pick. He was taken in the fourth round. And that doesn't say anything about the Bears' confidence in Grossman. Good teams often take quarterbacks in the later rounds of the draft for depth. Remember, Green Bay drafted players like Mark Brunell and Matt Hasselbeck despite having Brett Favre. That didn't indicate a lack of confidence in Favre.
My pick for tonight .... 31-13 Bears
Berman just compared the '85 Bears to Roseanne and Oprah.
The important pick we should make- who will the interview be, and when?
I'm guessing one of the Bidwells, with 6:20 left in the 2nd quarter.
Great TV right there. Irvin went on a 20 minute rant about why Lovie Smith was going to be better than Mike Ditka and everyone on the set was trying to get him to shut up.
And he kept talking.
"LET THE COACH TALK MICHAEL!"
So far Chris Berman has used the nickname Brian "Davey Jones'" Urlacher and told me that Da Bear are un-da-feated. Shouldn't he have some internal voice that says "hey wait, this might not make any sense."
He leaves out a whole syllable for Urlacher. That is terrible. Mabye he should try Matt "Pat on the" Hasselbeck, or go back to baseball and give us Barry "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY" Zito. I think the Zito one would leave him particularly happy with himself.
What demo does he appeal to? Unsuccessful comedy writers? Recovering comb-over victims? Are there a lot of people who can only wait 14:57 before hearing the next NFL draft pick instead of the full 15:00?
the new arizona stadium is pretty sweet
that being said this is 30-10 chicago win
I'M A QUATERBACK THERES A CHANCE
Berman's job is to prepare the audience for Tirico & co.
Rocco: I pick Jim Belushi or Bill Murray with 7:30 left in the second quarter.
The Edge: "Its hard to go anywhere when you don't have anywhere to go."
well there's always your own end zone...
hey for everyone thinks that the bears will win easy
LET ME ROCK YOUR WORLD
Ogunleeya IS OUTTTTTTTTTTTTT
arizona 35-32 in OT
Matt "Lion's Den" Lienhart
400 passing yards
that way my lowest point, as a human
you heard of.. curtis enos
The Mayne Event is easily the best NFL feature EVAR!
How about Jim Belushi AND Bill Murray?
Rocco - put me down for Steve Nash.
scratch that. Charles Barkley, plays up the phoenix losing to chicago angle.
AZ Fan: Ogunleye was out last week, too. Final score: Chicago 40, Buffalo 7.
I love this HDTV thing... I counted 2,135,424 hairs on that elephants butt, but I might be off, do to the mirrors.
Jacked up is old hat.
Nice hit? He KNEED him in the helmet. Ugh.
They didn't save a "jacked up" for halftime? What will we do during the break?
Anybody else yearn to see Dr. Z do a new feature TV? "Wrapped up" maybe? With the only 3 form tackles in the NFL each week?
Is Butkis really "more famous" than Walter Payton? As to TK's second question, I would say that Lawrence Taylor is certainly the most famous Giant ever.
Bill Murray is in Scotland for the Highland Games, I think, sorry guys.
FIU/Miami wasn't part of the "Jacked Up" .... ? amazing :-P
It seems that those in the teams' markets get MNF on ABC. Weird.
IRC's still up, if anyone wants to share the misery.
Interview SHOULD be Pat Tillman's parents, but it won't be ....
This game should be named the Paris Hilton bowl.
credit to deadspin.
Fnor, ever since ESPN started televising games, they have been required to be televised on a broadcast channel in the markets of the two teams.
No Suzy Kolber? If they were smart they'd show us more Rachel Nichols. In fact, they should put one of those iso cams on Rachel Nichols all night.
Oh god, if they keep calling him 'Rexy' all night...
Yes, Dick Butkus is more famous than Walter Payton:
vs 1 Co-Hosting of SNL for Payton.
Berrian is kinda swift ... isn't he?
What got into the cardinals? I'm sure this is a momentary aberration, and they'll crash down soon enough.... right?
If they crash it better be soon- I can only survive 2 XP or a FG from Rackers in my fantasy league. Although I'm the commish, and I can cheat if necessary. :)
way to miss that tackle. jeez.
It's still early, but don't tell me the Bears are flashing back to their playoff game against the Panthers and the whole "we should win this game going away" lack of effort.
Well, that was certainly impressive.
Thank you Johnson-I need all the fantasy points I can get..
How can Rolle miss that?
Hey, Joe: Dropping an interception on a long bomb on third down isn't the end of the world.
Should somebody tell Thiesmann that the Int would have netted about the same yardage as a punt?
Someone wake up Nick Bucconti! Larry Csonka!
Antrelle Rolle went to school at The M!
Hrm. I think I'm considering taking back what I said about not having INT problems on the long ball with Grossman.
Oh, wait, if it happens they still got the Colts...
The playcallers on the london telecast are really, really irritating.
How many yards do you think the Cards gave up by not getting that INT. Rolle would have caught it at the 27 going the wrong way. There wasn't really anyone around him though hard to say exactly where he would have ended up. if he started running.
Leinart may be wired, but he's not sync'd to his video.
Man, the Bears receiver really gave up on that pass. He and Grossman were really lucky it wasn't intercepted.
That turnover, on the other hand, is costly.
I am glad Mark Anderson is starting.
Alabama players representing!! Too bad Roman Harper is out for the season...
incomplete. not sure if its indisputible enough though... if this were the officials from the Miami/NYJ game yesterday, they uphold the field ruling.
MAn, a bug sure crawled up Tiricos butt tonight.
Kornheiser: If the screen goes blank can you put another quarter in and get another 15 seconds?
that was cute Tony ....
Could there be anyone more unfunny than Tony Kornheiser?
I wonder if the broadcast would improve if we substituted Norman Chad for Tony Kornheiser?
So, that's three drives, 2 should-be interceptions, and an actual interception.
Do the Bears run any trick plays?
Maybe the Bears should stop trying the long passes on 3rd down.
Nah. Miller was funnier. Kornheiser is completely useless.
My my my
Maybe they should double Boldin. Wouldn't want another Steve Smith repeat.
hmmm .... maybe they should onside kick now?
Dennis Miller was funny if you had a masters degree in 17th century european history.
What about Tim Couch? Too crummy?
Great conversation. I know I want to hear about who Joe Theisman plowed in his playing days.
I wonder if he tried to overanalyze it in the act, you know, like "I had lunch with your best friend yesterday, and she told me that you don't like it when......"
Roland, #66: So you're saying London gets the American feed too?
the answer is obviously Brett Favre.
You mean Tim "is watching football on his" Couch. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. I'm funny. See I can be like Chris Berman.
Matt Leinart is amused by the simplicity of this game.
Didn't the girl that dated Tim Couch also date Cade McNown?
i called this fucking shit
90: Close, but even that is too clever for Mr. Berman. I think he'd prefer Tim "One of the things you can buy in Ikea is a comfortable, leather, three-seat" Couch.
Joe, on the 3rd and 12: "The Chicago Bears finally got the Arizona Cardinals where they wanted them: 3rd and long."
Except when it was 3rd and 11 just recently, and the Cards converted.
Wow. A tip of the cap to the guy that predicted Charles Barkley.
nice call on the interview andrew.
Lamar Thomas is now available for MNF duty ....
Congrats andrew. We need a prize for this.
prize: a gift certificate to the "pink taco"?
4 drives. 2 would-be interceptions. 2 interceptions.
oh good lord. Guess Grossman really is trying to be like Farve (2005 version).
You hear that? Thats the sound of egg hitting the collective faces of the ESPN network.
I CALLED IT!!!!!
look back on post 34! this is more amazing than AZ Fan's prediction!!!!
shoulda been the fourth int for grossman and we're 18 minutes into the game.
best of luck with this guy over the course of a season, chitown fans
OK, here's my fantasy football situation. Everyone off the edge of your seat now, we don't want anyone getting hurt. :-)
I need Chicago D to get maybe a couple sacks and INTs and generally play decent.. not great to win. However, I have Matt Leinhart on my bench in a keeper league. So if he eats the CHI D up, I just might trade him (I have Hasselbeck as my #1). Either way I win. Yay. :-)
This is why I love the NFL.
If this holds up, what will this do to the Beatpaths?
at least he isn't touting an ABC/ESPN series
Is this the sound of the Chicago bandwagon bursting into flames? Would it be trite to point out that 5-1 isn't that different from 5-0? And the Bears still have the inside track to the #1 seed.
Tony Kornheiser hasn't mentioned his fantasy team yet.
does his fantasy team include paris hilton (or cathy lee crosby)?
Tell us how you really feel about TO, CHarles.
And heres a question. Why are we talking about TO?
It seems like the Bears were taking a lot of bad angles while they try to tackle, overrunning guys and the like at the beginning of the game. Do you think they were buying into their own myth, thinking they were tougher, faster, and stronger than normal NFL players?
Tony Kornheiser asking Charles Barkley what he thinks about Terrell Owens.
I now have negative interest in the game.
do they have different announcers for espn deportes? or do they just dub?
If I were the Bears I would have gone for it there.
is brian griese warming up yet?
I hate to say it, but Barkley is an improvement over the banter b efore.
cut edge, start francisco at running back. dude's got some skills.
This game makes me wonder, how important is simply "wanting it more" in the NFL? Is it decideing 75% of the games in the NFL?
I'm trying to think of a worse game by Chicago in terms of expectations....
1961, when they lost to the fist game by the expansion Vikings 37-13 is the only one that comes to mind...
(of course this is assuming it holds up).
Ok, everyone use the "email Tony" feature to ask Joe how he feels about predicting that the Bears would go 16-0 last week.
I know its any given SUNDAY, but if this happens, I think we need to shift the column...
50% Wanting it more, 25% swagger
mistake to not decline the penalty?
guess not. 2nd bad snap in series.
the game is far from over, guys. Remember, this is Arizona's defence we're talking about.
"You have to give the Bidwells credit.......they are really trying to win."
I think its time to break the rule and let Jim McMahon play despite not practicing all week.
Worse franchise in NFL?
Lions or Cardinals?
christ, who gives a flip about a jay-z video
Ummm.... World premeire? I saw that video earlier today on BET.
OHHHHHH SNAP! Coming up at halftime it's WORLD PREMIERE OF THE NEW JAY-Z VIDEO!
130. Since I don't want to pay for ESPN and am not watching the game, let me guess who said that. Ummmmm..... Joe Theisman?
Has Grossman thrown any good passes tonight?
They have all been sailing or inaccurate. That last int was gonna be 5 yards behind berrian anyway.
They should really just have Barkely comment on everything. Figure skating? Barkley. Football? Barkley. Dog show? Barkley.
There's really no such thing as too much Sir Charles, especially when he's talking up the Cards.
and they spelled Premiere WRONG!
The Buzzsaw up 17-0? I worked late figuring this would be a laugher. What madness is this?
did theismann just call francisco 'frisco'?
he's as drunk as i am.
Edge looks fried to me, that first down run after the fumble rec just now, he had alot of space to cut back to his left and pretty much just fell down.
I know he's not getting good blocks, but he doesn't look like what you expect from the Edge, either.
Yep, Theismann is a big Jack Wagner fan. Like that surprises anybody.
Brace yourself for the talking heads tomorrow...
Same old Bears offense! Bad quarterback play! The Bears have a lot of work to do! Rex Grossman has lost it! The Cardinals are heading to the playoffs!
Rexy has been watching Brett Favre too much
You know these guys have been up in arms over "momentum" since the start of the game. It seems like every time Chicago has the ball, at least one announcer says "And now they have the momentum." Momentum momentum momentum. I recognize that momentum is meaningful in NFL games, but come on!
so lets recap: if zona dbs can catch, that's *six* turnovers in 28 min for grossman.
quit running the ball... leinart's looking good with the short passing game. keep chucking and ducking, az.
I think its the "sexy" talk. Grossman is too Hollywood.
About the Jay-Z video, do you think NASCAR approached Jay-Z, or do you think Jay-Z approached NASCAR?
Bears oline looks pretty awful.
Watching this game with this broadcast makes me realize how much I miss the Paul Maguire days. I was watching whatever college game MAguire was doing on Saturday and as hard as it is to believe, he was even more amazing in that game than he ever was with the NFL games.
And by amazing I mean doing absolutely nothing to improve the broadcast. The previous crew was unbeatable, combined with Patrick, Theisman, and Kolber you had 4 people that didn't do dick......
125. As hyped as I am to read the great FO analysis about how my beloved Bucs won, I'd have to agree that the Cards winning this game would be the bigger upset, and probably a more interesting breakdown of how they did it.
its not about momentum. you've got a qb who is 13-for-18 (with one mistake which didn't hurt them). let him do his job.
Wow, Grossman just turned out the worst half of any quarterback all season.
Maybe we can ask Ned nicely and get a special AGS, if this result holds?
who plays Hips Don't Lie during a football game?
Down 17-0, half about to end.. lets ice the kicker!
Man, I wish Barkley had taken them up on staying in the both forever.
since 1992, the Bears have only been favored by more than 10 points TWICE ...
they are 0-2 in those games ATS ...
#156: I concur. Bucs over Bengals is a good choice as well, but we can't miss out on Cardinals over Bears if it happened. That'll be by far the biggest upset of the year so far.
Wow I needed 5 pts from CHI def and am not looking like I am going to get it...I also sat rackers this week :(
I'm just glad Joe finally figured out that Bertrand's last name is Berry and not Berrian.
By the way, where's that guy Paul, who was so upset when people suggested that Grossman has been a tad lucky so far?
This is incredible. I am losing in my fantasy league by 15 pts to a guy with Grossman. In our league, TOs are -3 pts. I could actually almost win this. GO REXY!
Would a FO breakdown of this game actually be interesting? I think it's pretty damn clear why the Bears are down 20 at the end of the first half.
I knew they had something special planned when they didn't let TJ do his "jacked up" #1 at halftime. But I am just speachless. Jimmy Kimmel... the songs from last year...
worst halftime show ever...
C'mon, that was much more entertaining than frickin' "I like it, I love it" from last season.
Yikes. 20-0 at the half. Grossman looks horrible. All those things that scared the hell out of me are coming to play here. His gross passing off the back foot into double coverage, his taking a billion years to decide who to throw it to, his lucky passes into coverage - they're all coming to roost. This feels like the law of averages just destroying the Bears today. Their defense isn't playing great, but it's good - but when the Cards start at the 35, it's hard to defend well.
Leinart looks decent. I like the idea of the flanker screens that they're running with him. If Edge can't run the outside and the Oline can't do it, just skip the entire line and go for some TE/WR matchups that favor you. Poor Edge though. Arizona truly is where good RBs go to die.
Andrew (#165 )--
I think the interesting part is that the Cardinals are getting pressure on Grossman, and so far he looks terrible.
How they have gotten that pressure is probably worth a look.
Okay, I just got out of an econ exam and I see that the Cards are up 20 to 0. What the hell happened?! Did Grossman's approach finally come back to bite him in the ass? And what about the defense?
ESPN Desportes has Spanish-language announcers whose commentary is 'dubbed' over the broadcast. Former Giants kicker Raul Allegre is their main guy and, I have to say, he isn't bad at all. And, in comparison with the three stooges on Sunday nights last year, he was positively brilliant.
I like the Matt Leinart "primal scream" TD celebration. It's much better than the Rex Grossman "oh @#%$" TD muttering.
The bigger issue seems to be this - what are you doing with 2 kickers?
That should be Rex's INT muttering. I'm stupid.
The Bears linebackers certainly look proud of themselves every time Leinart throws an incompletion.
smartmonies said the game was fixed all day on his site. I love it!
The "wired" segments they do on these things are always useless - presumably because they can't use anything that features swearing - but that was a cute sideline moment:
Leinart, jubilant: "I've never seen anything like this before!" (or words to that effect)
Kurt Warner: "Me neither!"
Can someone watching the game explain what the hell is going on? I can believe that Grossman's antics are biting him in the ass, but I can't fathom how ARI's O-line is doing a passable job on CHI's front 7.
172: Yeah, I also really enjoyed that scream. That really needs to be overplayed to a Howard Dean level
The Arizona gameplan is identical to the gameplan the Bears themselves used to almost beat Baltimore in the 2001 season opener.
Just keep throwing the flanker screens until the defense creeps up, then throw over them, then go back to throwing screens. It doesn't work when your corners can tackle well, but no one on the Bears wants to tackle tonight. This is the second game (the first was vs Minnesota) where Urlacher looks like he doesn't know how to tackle.
So, I entered this game with about a 13 pt lead in my fantasy game. My opponent has Edge, Thomas Jones, and the Chicago Defense. I have Muhsin Muhammad and Neil Rackers. I figured I was screwed. This, needless to say, is making my day thus far. If only Rackers had made that 52 yarder...those five points would have left me a bit more comfortable.
And yes, I realize that sounding off to strangers about my fantasy team is probably not a good sign.
How the Cards have been able to defense the Chicago offense would be worth a very good look. I'd also be curious to see the Arizona attack and break down what's worked and hasn't.
And how in the hell has Zona not allowed a sack?
What in the world?
In case you couldn't tell, I just gome home and just turned the TV on.
Shock of the century.
we want griese ... we want griese
Arizona is setting up in the shotgun and using a LOT of flanker screens to negate the pass rush. You can see that their O-line is over matched, but it doesn't matter when the ball is gone literally before the defenders can even run to the QB. The only time they seem to throw a pass down field (and by down field I mean 5+ yards) is off of play action.
The Bears have also apparently been taking their Conventional Wisdom pills and are selling out trying to blitz the rookie. Moving away from your base defense just because you're facing a rookie QB is not that smart, but every one in football seems to do it.
that would be BOB Griese
They should go for the TD here.
Wow, that's a painful looking throw.
Has Benson been benched again? Why not run a couple times? Just...I don't get it.
Leinart is moving around a lot back there... That seems to be helping a lot. So far this year, the Bears have faced Jon Kitna, Brad Johnson, and Matt Hasselback... three statues... Meanwhile they also played Favre, who of course is not the Favre of old, and Losman, who sucks.
This game is a good example of why its usually not a good idea to start talking about a 16-0 season in week 6.
173, the conventional wisdom about not holding 2 kickers makes ZERO sense. Pick good ones and they are much more worth it than waiver wire scraps who wont ever play. In most leagues the average between a good kicker day and a bad kicker day is over 3pts. thats rather significant.
I have been winning fantasy leagues for YEARS with superior def and kicker play. would you really think I would be better off with someone like b johnson on my team than having flexibility at kicker...I already have 3 other qbs (hasselbeck rivers and lienart) or maybe you think i shoudl pickup ron dayne...
What a crappy call.
#192: Hasselbeck is not Michael Vick, but he's not Drew Bledsoe either. He can run every once in a while.
If Denny Green were to go on a bender, and offer Leinert to the Bears, in return for Grossman, straight-up, would Jerry Angelo have time to convey acceptance of the offer before he fainted?
Becephalus is grossman available?
Whoa, settle on down there, the comment was largely tongue in cheek.
In my experience (over 20 years actually, I'm not green at it) I tend to find that early in the season it is better to have 1, as you can use that roster spot on a prospect or simply just to build depth to cover injuries or develop tradebait.
As the season continues I will usually end up with two for the final weeks as playing matchups becomes a more certain exercise and flexibility is good to have.
The big thing that with kickers is that it is a very inexact science as to who will be good from year to year - didnt FO somewhere comment that the correlation between seasons is not as high as some would expect.
But each to their own, no need for the Dayne or Johnson comments.
Kudos to Tony for calling Joe on his inconsistencies.
For a team that's losing by three scores, the Bears certainly pound their chests and flex their muscles a lot.
Anyone who has seen this whole game, has Boldin been in single coverage this whole game?
SOrry just sick of basically ALWAYS getting that comment when I have looked at the mah about 1000 times and the conventional wisdom is just completely wrong.
I mean obviously you dont want 2 kickers if you only have 12 roster spots, but every league I have ever played in has 18 to 25.
Well given the field position and possession conceded by Grossman, they arent doing too bad a job.
How has no one talked about Barkley's reaction to TO if he was a teammate?
Also, did Barkley ever actually take that course of action?
#201: pcs there ain't no shame in the nfl baby!
i remember an outstanding picture in si years back of larry centers in a cards uniform heroically flexing after catching a td strike right in front of ARI 7 WAS 34 in bright lights on the scoreboard
Okay, just read the play by play data, let me see if I get this straight:
1. The ARI offense actually had a mediocre day
2. The CHI offense had a brutal day
3. 95% of the score can be explained by Rex Grossman self-destructing.
Has Arizona scored any pointed on a drive NOT the result of a turnover?
207: First drive was off of a punt, Leinart TD to #80 Johnson.
The Bears appear to have forgotten how to tackle. All a guy has to do is takle Arrignton in the open field, and instead lets him run for 6 YAC and the first.
Aha, I think we're on to something there...I've only ever played on 14-16 squad sizes, where there are 8-9 starters....generally I have 2QB, 4RB, 4-5WR, TE/KI/DE and then the last 1-2 spots are dependent on FAs available and my strengths and weaknesses.
TWD: I recall AZ scored on their initial possession, but I could be wrong about that - it sure seemed that way anyway, I wasnt watching the game closely until the 2nd TD when I realized 'holy crap, this is watchable'
I think it is likely that, five years fron now, Leinert lasting as long as he did in the first round will be viewed as even a worse case of poor group-think than Randy Moss dropping as far as he did.
TWD (#207 )--
1. Arizona's offense having an average day against Chicago's defense is shocking.
3. Nah, only about 67%.
Leinart was a poster boy.
Moss was a problem child.
#207- The big thing is the Cards aren't turning the ball over. The Bears can't seem to move the ball at all tonight- they look dependent on short fields, and deep bombs. At this point, the Cards defense isn't giving them anything deep.
The Cards have been a bit spotty offensively in the 2nd half- they can't run the ball, the receivers have dropped some passes, and they seem to playing Tresselball inside the redzone. But they're protecting Leinart much better than I'd have expected.
can the bears run a no-huddle offense?
"Kurt Warner has stabalized the position." -- Joe T.
That was so a catch
ok. now they can pound their chests.
Well, that's one way to win. Just keep punting on offense and hope the D does the rest.
Its about f*cking time.
I guess not challenging that catch worked out. Shrewd move Lovie
So, how soon before Edge averages under a yard per carry? He's at 1.8 in this game right now.
Hmm.... Do we have a game now?
And right as I post that, Leinart gets drilled by an unblocked lineman, fumbles, and it's taken back for 6. Very classy celebration by the Bears- you're still down 13.
It looks like the Bears D finally showed up. I don't care if fumble recoveries are random, Leinart was pounded there and that play was losing yardage anyway you put it.
Is there an adjustment in random fumble luck that accounts for Mike Brown?
Fumble recoveries on sacks are more likely to be recovered by the defense, IIRC - because of plays like that, where the defense is going the right direction. It's not a huge deal - something like 60% - but it's more likely.
Man, I feel bad for Leinart. That lineman is paying for his own dinner.
Thank you everybody for filling me in. 215, I guess you stand corrected. ;)
What surprises me is that considering the consensus opinion on the ARI offensive line, and the fact that edge has (once again) 44 yards on 24 carries, the bears seem to have been getting very little pressure on Leinart. I'm not sure he's even been sacked.
To the Bears fans in this thread, it's my fault, I'm sorry.
Let me tell you a story.
In 1995 the Bears signed "superstar" Bryan Cox and Dave Wandstedt made the comment all the pieces are in place for a Super Bowl run. On the opening night, on Monday Night football, the Bears beat the Dallas Cowboys behind a Curtis Conway trick play and Cox recovering a fumble in the endzone. The next day I was so excited I started collecting Sun Times commemorative posters of the Bears (95 Bears with their 85 counterpart) and went out and with my hard earned Summer job cash bought a Bryan Cox jersey.
The Bears went 8-7 the rest of the way, didn't make the playoffs, started Steve Walsh, and generally stank. Bryan Cox blew chunks. I vowed never to buy a Jersey again.
This weekend I was so excited about this team I bought a Walter Payton reto jersey at Kohls. My bad. Sorry. They'll probably go 5-11.
I mean, other than the fumble, of course.
#214, yes I realize that, but the point is that various peripheral concerns resulted in two players dropping farther than their college performance warranted. Ironically, Green engaged in the same mistake that he benefitted from with regards to Moss and Leinert, when he passed on Warren Sapp, and instead drafted DE Derrick Alexander, a slow-footed player who never amounted to anything.
I can see being hesitant to use top three cap space on a guy with various issues, but for Leinert to fall to 11, Moss to 18, and Sapp to, I believe, about 12 is a good example of a group getting to caught up in extraeneous matters.
Boldin = da man.
Ha-eesh Ata, Boldin!
Mike Brown being carted off.... ouch!
Hope that wasn't the result of celebration...
RE: Sapp/Moss/Leinart: With Sapp and Moss, there were at least off-field things to worry about. Leinart was pretty much clean. I think his dropping was just a result of the entire league out-thinking itself.
Wow, Edge just made something out of nothing there. That was really impressive.
Only in Arizona is an 8 yard rush really impressive.
edge'd gain more yards in white shoes.
somewhere out there .... billy "white shoes" johnson is crying ...
Well, the crappy Cardinals line we're used to has returned to the game. That, and the Bears decided to make an appearance on defense. They're finally able to hit Leinart.
If the Bears cross midfield, it's panic time for the Cards.
"White shoes are for golf, black shoes are for football." Thank you for that insightful commentary Joe Theisman! I wonder if red shoes would be effective at all?
I can't wait to see Grossman trying to run a quick tempo catch up offense (I'm not sure they'll go full on hurry up yet).
Try stepping up in the pocket for a change Rex
It's a shame that those of you who don't live in the Philadelphia area can't see the trashy, raisin-smuggling white girl in the Buyafastcar.com ad, the worst commercial in the history of the known universe.
Dear God, K's comparing this game to the Monday Night game in Miami in 1985.
Just put down the crack pipe, Tony.
so its not just the az dbs that can't catch... christ have there been a lot of dropped balls in this game on every front or what?
#250: It's very, very hard to catch Grossman passes no matter what side of the ball you're on, apparently.
Well, this would be the game that gives us the balance for the Bears on DVOA, at least offensively. I can't say the Bears played that badly on defense, but offense? Ugh.
Has Chicago only had 2 good teams in the last 20 years?
They oughta put a shock collar on Grossman, and every time he heaves one of those half-assed, off-the-back-foot, toss-aways that just barely gets to the sideline, Ron Turner should make ol' Rexy do the full tilt electric boogie.
Wasn't there concern about Leinart's "L.A. celebrity" status going to his head? I don't know if that was as a factor as Moss or Sapp off-field issues.
Leinart, methinks, was hurt in the draft by the insanely high quality of the three USC teams he started for. He hadn't really proved much from a certain perspective, because he always had a great o-line and great playmakers.
Even throws an INT on the offside
254. Arm strength also IIRC. At least compared to Cutler and Young I think.
Thank god Denny Green is coach of the Cardinals, if he was competent and ran, taking 40 seconds off the clock with each play I'd be worried as a Seahawk fan.
Seriously, run on 3rd down and by the time you punt you've run 78 seconds off the clock. You're just giving the Bears free time here.
How come they haven't pointed out that Urlacher and Leinart have the same STDs?
(that's a Paris Hilton joke)
Wow, 3 horrible throws by Grossman. Come on, let's go for a fourth horrible throw!
Grossman looks so confused. So horribly confused.
You are the coach FG or go for it??
I don't know which hype storm is worse: the one that will be created by Leinart leading the Cardinals over the Bears, or the one created by the Bears coming back and winning.
um thats a td
what... what just happened?
Reason's the 9 team's before Arizona didn't take him:
#1 Houston: Sticking with David Carr
#2 New Orleans: Picked up Drew Brees in free agency.
#3 Tennessee: Norm Chow and Jeff fisher wanted Leinart. The owner disagreed.
#4 NY Jets: They had Chad, picked up Ramsey, and were looking for Kellen Clemens later in the draft. Chose to pick up a franchise left tackle instead.
#5 Green Bay: Had picked Aaron rodgers 23rd overall last year.
#6 San Francisco: Had picked Alex Smith 1st overall last year.
#7 Oakland: In Andrew Walter Al Davis Trusts.
#8 Buffalo: In J.P. Losman/Craig Nall/Kelly Holcomb Marc Levy Trusts.
#9 Detroit: In Jon Kitna/Josh McCown Matt Millen Trusts.
He was down, wasn't he?
I just just about to criticize him for fighting to intercept a pass on 4th down, but then....
Its just their night.
w. t. f.
good effort on d there, bears offense.
And as I type that, Grossman throws a tipped pass, intercepted by a lineman, who rumbles oh-so-wierdly, and the Cardinals score.
Of all the things to hate Theismann for, I think the thing I hate most about him is how he always cheers for the favored team. Seriously Joe, it's not an entertaining game if the big favorite wins. No one outside of Bears fans wants to see the Bears win this game. This isn't the first time I've heard him doing this either.
ok, he's down, but still.
Too bad. I wanted the fat man to get a TD.
Good Lord I thought it was obvious he was down.
You go for it.
I don't care if you thought he was down. He was, but there is absolutely NO excuse for not attacking the ball carrier until there are whistles killing your eardrums.
nm, thank god
273: sure, so did i, but don't wait for the challenge, tackle the dude first
#239, "RE: Sapp/Moss/Leinart: With Sapp and Moss, there were at least off-field things to worry about. Leinart was pretty much clean." I'm not sure if "clean" is the right word for Leinart. Surely I'm not the only person thinking of an off colour Paris Hilton joke. Agreed that him dropping was just dumb. The worst was my beloved Raiders (please, no jokes) passing him up because they had Andrew Walter. I mean, I think Michael Huff will be good, but geez.
#265- I'd also add that if the Bills were worried about Leinart's arm, then I can understand not being sure about drafting him. The wind and weather can be nasty in Buffalo and they probably want someone with a better arm.
Oakland and Detroit, on the other hand...
Exactly what warranted a "TO, this is your life" recap?
Oh, and calling his publicist Lil' Kim was just COLD.
Play reversed. Which brings me back to my original question: was catching the ball really worth it? I would have just batted it down.
265: It's the Lions at 9 and the Raiders at 7 who really look silly passing on Leinart.
WHY THE SHOTGUN?
come on walters, stay in bounds
is it too soon to start using your timeouts?
What I really don't understand is Tennessee passing up Leinart for Young. I know Young wowed people and all that, but Leinart was just stellar in college.
That all being said, he looks more than mortal now. Which isn't bad given how good the Bears D normally is.
Al Davis never goes QB in the 1st round (well besides Todd Marinovich-or whatever the drug-addled USC QB name was).
and Millen may have been shot dead by crazy Lions fans if they went offense in the 1st round again. And besides the Lions problem this year is not QB (and with Martz on board, no real need to grab a QB early).
This is something interesting... Grossman being criticized for not dropping back more.
Rex is throwing off his back foot even when hes not pressured
I can't believe the Bears still have a chance to win this thing.
You were saying?
How on earth do you turn the ball over 6 times and lose by 13?
Grossman reminds me of Favre right now. And not MVP Favre, 29 INT Favre.
yeah... there's number 75 for grossman
This is a really flaggy game.
and in other news,Rexy is not the second coming.
The way Grossman is playing (4th INT), they don't, reguardless of the score.
Dammit, I was on my way to bed and the bastards make things interesting.
That's one way to overcome turnovers.
The announcing crew is actively jinxing both teams.
The Ravens quarterback will need to greatly improve his performance from last year if he's going to live up his huge new contract.
See All XP | NFL XP | College XP
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties