Talk amongst yourselves
PDF NOW DISCOUNTED
Click here to buy PDF version.
Click here to buy PDF version
Like our page on Facebook and get Football Outsiders links directly in your Facebook feed.
Official Account: @fboutsiders
Scott Kacsmar: @FO_ScottKacsmar
Ben Muth: @FO_WordofMuth
Aaron Schatz: @FO_ASchatz
Vincent Verhei: @FO_VVerhei
-- plus --
Ian Boyd: @Ian_A_Boyd
Bill Connelly: @SBN_BillC
Cian Fahey: @Cianaf
Brian Fremeau: @bcfremeau
Tom Gower: @ThomasGower
Bryan Knowles: @BryKno
Rivers McCown: @RiversMcCown
Chad Peltier: @CGPeltier
Andrew Potter: @BigHairyAndy
Rob Weintraub: @robwein
Carl Yedor: @CarlYedor61
This thread is for discussion of action on the field before, during, and after Week 9 Monday Night Football between Seattle and Oakland. Nnnnnnnnnamdi!
Wallace is a far superior quarterback because his stats far exceed what's his face on the Raiders. The guy with 3 superbowls.
It's Walter right?
Worst Monday night game this season? From the way things stand today, I think so.
It was a genius move to put John Madden and Al Michaels on SNF, as the problem with the two was that in a big game they were pumped and were awesome, but in non-big games, such as the Seattle-Philadelphia game last year, they...wandered. ("madden's tie stains lol!")
With flexible scheduling, for the rest of the year Madden and Michaels will have big games every week. Unfortunately, Tirico and Company are SOL.
I wish Micheals and Madden were doing tonights game.
"This is like watching a writeoff between Dan Brown and Michael Bay"
I fully expect the Raiders to win this game as part of Art Shell's inevitable march to a 7-9 record
#5: That is the most horrific thing I have heard all day.
Wallace! Walters! Morris! Fargas! Are YOU ready for some football?
I'm really not, no.
I'd not be surprised if the Raiders won on the strength of their defense. The Hawks can't seem to run to save their life, Wallace is a decent but not great QB, and they don't have a lot of good line play. On the other hand, the Raiders offense is hideously bad. Wow, this will be a super fun game to watch. I'm going to say that the over/under for turnovers will be 5.
It looks like it is absolutely pouring buckets in Seattle right now.
Kornheiser and Wilbon are doing PTI with umbrellas.
And Monday Night Football is always worth watching.
1. What will Theisman say?
2. What will Kornheiser say to make THeisman look stupid?
3. Who will be the booth interview?
4. Will someone hit on Suzy Kolber?
Anyone as thoroughly tired of the "Our Country" ad that we will no doubt have to mute 100,000 times tonight should click my name.
I'm not really sure this game warrants its own thread. If anything it should've been one for the Indy/NE game.
Hate to admit it, but I'm probably going to watch Heroes tonight (I normally Tivo it, but my Tivo's not in HD).
And that's with my fantasy opponent needing 30 pts from Moss, Janikowski and Lamont to beat me...
Am I the only one that could actually see Oakland beating Seattle tonight?
Oh, yeah, I've got Bosworth for in-booth interview :)
So, Branch is Seattle's #1 fish catcher... and Burleson & Hacket are next...
So, I come into tonight's game leading my opponent by 12.27 points. My opponent has Randy Moss and Julian Peterson on his team.
I have no one playing tonight, so..... please, Seattle, make sure Moss isn't open; and please, Oakland, don't let Peterson get any sacks or picks.
Not likely. Bosworth is at least somewhat football-related. Who wants that?
They interviewed Bos before the game, and said he'd be in the booth. So there's that to look forward to.
So Art Shell didn't know that Qwest didn't have a roof....
Kornheiser (paraphrase): The mighty Raiders have fallen and fallen so low they might not be able to get back up.....
So are you ready for some great football?
Hint Tony: Don't tarnish the product. The NFL doesn't like that very much....
I promise to be good forever and ever if Courtney Love is the in-booth interview. Please, please, please.
Why does Shell look like he's leading a dog sled through the Yukon? It's a dome, Art.
Yeah. So much for Oakland having a chance.
There he goes again....Yes, folks, just forget it. It's all so very useless...gee what's on skinemax?
How in the hell have the Raiders won two games? They look like a bad college team against a relatively weak Seahawks squad.
Damn, what happend to the Kingdome?
At what juncture in time did this seem like a reasonable MNF game?
Theisman and Tirico's fantasy matchup might be more interesting.
Screw their matchup. Mine is way more important. Peterson already has a sack, so my lead is cut to 9.27 points.
How would you like to be Art Shell's psychiatrist?
three straight sacks = awesome
hahahaha.... ah, this is fun to watch, much like watching any other train wreck occurring.
The Seahawks are on pace for 20 sacks in this game. I doubt they'll get it, so I'll put the o/u at 11.
The first sack that last series was the most blatant instance of a DL driving the QB into the turf this year, but it wasn't called.
Omigod, this isn't really fair is it? I mean, Oakland is so bad. So very, very bad.
To quote Wilbon... I'm going over. WAY over
I have seen 4 Raiders games this seaosn (this being the 4th)...and in those games I have yet to see ARt Shell say one word.
Not into his headset.
Not to a player.
Not to a coach.
He has said. Nothing.
I'm starting to wonder if the headset is even plugged in.
4-27-OAK 39 (1:31) S.Lechler punts 61 yards to end zone, Center-A.Treu...
#37 He's pickin' up ClearChannel on it, a little light Jazz. Goes good with an overt mauling.
Hmm, Moss has 1 catch so far. My lead is at ~8 points.
Jeremy Stevens is truly a man's man.
Does Stu still have the neckbeard?
Are you serious?
Hey, just like the Super Bowl Jeramy......
Stevens is already in post-season form.
are Oakland in any danger of having more penalties against than points scored at the end of this season? it looks fairly certain for this game.
Calm down Holmgren...you're going to win the flippin game.
Seeing this game isnt in any doubt, time to talk FF.
I have a 8.44 point deficit, but I have the Seattle defense, he has Branch....so right now I've cut the lead to 5.44.
Oakland not to score
A few of these sacks to lead to defensive touchdowns.
I dont ask much....
huh, Christian Slater
I had no idea he was even still alive. When is the last time he's been in a movie? That people watched.
Is the retractable roof open or closed? Esiason just said on the radio Raiders have the wind, so it is open?
Crap. Another catch for Moss, and now he's up over 20 yards receiving.
My lead is probably around 6 points now.
And appearantly Justin Fargas is the son of the guy who played Huggy Bear on TV.
Wasn't that a Simpsons joke? Seriously. I swear there was an episode where they introduced someone as "the son of the guy who played TV's Huggy Bear."
I could be wrong on that, but i'm pretty damn sure of it.
If thats true...does that mean Justin Fargas was unintentionally a character on the Simpsons?
Qwest isn't a retractable roof stadium. You're thinking of the Mariners' joint next door, Safeco.
Damn corporate names.
The retractable roof is at Safeco Field, across the street. The field at Qwest is totally uncovered.
Theismann looks nervous...Christian Slater was doing a couple lines of color commentary there.
Personally I believe he could adequately be replaced by Joan Rivers.
Is Christian Slater on drugs?
Should Art Shell be? What a pathetic call of not going for it down 13 in the beginning of the 2nd on 4th and less than 1.
I assure you, if there is anything more uninteresting than the Raiders, it's a Christian Slater movie.
I know they mentioned some during this interview, but I still can't name a movie that he was in.
Antonio Fargas makes an appearance as Huggy Bear (from Starsky and Hutch), who has mistakenly been caged in the animal retirement home. This is not Huggy Bear's first appearance on The Simpsons, but it's his first speaking role. In "Homie the Clown", we saw "The Son of the Guy who played Huggy Bear."
15 YD PENALTY!!!!
He was in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. And, uh........um....... Yeah.
seriously, a raider twirled his finger syncronously with Sapp's gyrating hips.
#61 Kuffs. Pretty bad.
Also Very Bad things, didn't do well with the critics, but I enjoyed it.
Has nobody in this thread seen True Romance?
It looks like Walter is holding the ball too long, but most of the time he's actually not. It's just that normally the QB should be able to step up to buy a few more seconds and he can't because the guards are just getting abso-frickin-lutely DESTROYED.
#68. Oh sure. That one too.
And Heathers. They mentioned that one.
The Legend of Billy Joe. He was just a young kid in that one. Someone steals his scooter I believe. Heartbreaking.
At the Ace Awards, Dick Cavett stands at the podium.
Dick: Well, my time's almost up here, so, uh, I'd just like to
say...I know Woody Allen.
[a couple of people clap halfheartedly]
Homer: And now the winner for the most promising new series on
cable: "Old Starsky and Hutches".
[funky music starts]
Announcer: Accepting the award is the son of the guy who played Huggy Bear.
61, 64 -- he's opposite Sean Connery in the film treatment of The Name Of The Rose, which actually isn't that bad. His earnest blankness kind of works for Adso. Not quite like Keanu Reeves' blank blankness worked for Neo, but it won't make you want to carve out your eyeballs.
Eyeballs not guaranteed if you try to sit through True Romance.
Can you imagine the great comedy we could see if Aaron Brooks returns as the starter? He could set some new career "highlights."
Seattle has seven sacks now. Is Oakland just going to give up and run the clock out in the second half to avoid the sack record?
ok got it. Thanks for clearing up the stadium confusion.
I knew it.
Justin Fargas = Simpsons character.
How many times did Brooks get sacked in the opener?
christian slater was either drunk or he was drunk or he had some beer
Oh that's great guys...embarrass Warren Moon.
If I was Justin Fargas I would be way more proud of that then being a professional athlete.
According to IMDB, Slater has also been in:
Hollow Man 2
They made a sequel to that movie?!
Wow, he also had an uncredited role in the first Austin Powers movie as "Easily Fooled Security Guard." He must have been desperate for cash or something.
uh, that was... interesting.
Joe Theisman is going to contact his sources and get us an answer. Now.
Can someone explain why sacks don't seem to count as tackles? Just looking at Yahoo's game-page thing, and it doesn't look like they do.
Aw c'mon Theismnann, just say it. You think Wallace has a nice ass.
It's so painful, PFT has abandoned this week's MNF live blog because "these are hours of my life I won't ever get back."
Raider's taking a knee is probably one of their most productive offensive plays so far.
Slater is/was also the voice for those Panasonic Wet/Dry shaver commercials.
The best part of this game was undoubtedly:
Tirico: So are you a big football fan?
Slater: I have friends who are huge fans.
That one cracked me up.
70 - Oh dear. Now I have visions of Bill Parcells saying "I love my dead gay son!"
I thought thats what he said, but for some reason, I was holding out hope that it wasn't what he said, simply because it would have made the entire interview even more pathetic and pointless than it already was. Which would have been hard to do.
I love our country
To me she has no sins
If you don't buy my record
Then Al Qaeda wins
#88.. And then....
Who do you like?
So I guess the answer is no.
You know, as much as Seattle has dominated this game......it's still only a two possesion game.
Granted, for the Raiders thats like two light years of travel into previously uncharted territory.....but it's possible.
Slater also remarked about how he used to go to Jets games as a kid, and then remarked about 5 minutes later that this was his first NFL game.
They should put one of us in the booth.
ESPN should feel dirty for showing this game 24 after that awesome Pats/Colts game last night on NBC.
It's just two Ben Roethlisberger interceptions away.
Well, are the Jets an actual NFL team?
Of course, maybe he was referring to the Winnipeg Jets.
Art Shell "at a loss for words."
You can't make this stuff up.
Michelle Tafoya: "Art Shell was at a loss for words."
Michelle Tafoya is now my hero.
"I spoke to Art Shell at halftime and he was at a loss for words."
That. Is. Incredible.
So in Chicago it's northside Cubbies - southside White Sox. How does that work in NY for Jets and Giants?
Or is it a New Jersey thing?
Oakland legitimately beat an NFL team this year. Well that's if you can count the Cardinals as one at this point. (The Pitt game was obviously a fluke.) Watching today, I have no idea how that happened.
Oakland should adopt the Minnesota offense. Run a lot and throw in a couple short passes. At least it would buy the defense some time to rest.
101. I think for most people it goes like this. Queens/Long Island - Jets. Manhanttan/Bronx/Staten Island/New Jersey - Giants.
Brooklyn I am not sure.. could be both.
Navin, I didn't think I'd ever hear that phrase this year, but really, it would probably work better for them than the Vikings. At least Moss and Porter are capable of catching the ball (if they don't have to run too hard to do it at least).
Why is Lex Luthor in the booth?
Long Island is Jets territory, Manhattan and Westchester are Giants territory, and NJ and the rest of the northern suburbs are mostly, but by no means solidly, Giants. The Giants have the overall edge.
It's a lot more mixed-up than I gather it is in Chicago; I'd estimate my hometown broke 2-1 in favor of the Giants (with swings in either direction favoring whichever team was doing better at the time) when I was growing up there in the '90s.
So Long Island is Jets. I wondered why so many bluebloods and celebrities I've heard purport to be Jets fans.
Al Davis told Shell he wanted a "Vertical Offense", none of that sideways stuff.
he never specified which way vertical however...
andrew, nice :D
That might work, except for the fact that Oakland doesn't exactly have pro-bowl offensive lineman to open runnging lanes for them like Minnesota does.
Actually Davis said he wanted a "ventricular bypass"...Shell just misunderstood.
Uh, so, did one of the announcers actually just say that punt could be a turning point in the game?
Rob Ryan looks like a guy that should be sitting in the black hole.
That guy is........scary.
LaMont Jordan has looked okay so far running and catching. Also run blocking is a different art than pass blocking. (San Francisco has a good run blocking line, but it's bad for pass blocking.)
How has the Oakland line changed from last year anyways? They were decent at running the ball win Jordan last year, what has changed? No respect for the passing game is the only thing I can think of.
Does the Giants-Jets map overlay with divisions for Rangers-Islanders or Mets-Yankees? Where do the Devils and Nets fit in?
Art Shell is at a loss for words.
god the Raiders suck.
Shouldn't they say something about how Wallace didn't throw it away and instead ran out of bounds for a loss?
Did the Raiders run a 46 look on one of those plays on that drive? The play that was a sack, but wasn't........
Art Shell - "The Quiet Warrior"
so the Raiders go Joe Thomas with their 1st pick of the draft? Or does Arizona already have him locked up....
If I were Art Shell i'd let Matt Leinart throw one deep to Doug Gabriel on this first play......
They let Brian Bosworth in the booth...but apparently Tony Mandarich is still on the field for the Raiders.
OK. Maybe 32 Pro Teams has spread the talent pool a little thin.
Matt Leinart would have been sacked by the time he could set up.
Walter is not the problem for the Raiders...its the freaking OL.
Rashard Lee is still in the league? Wow.
By and large, the Devils and Nets fit into New Jersey. And the Islanders? They tend to stay on the Island. (Sorry, that was too easy.)
Yeah, the Devils, Islanders, and Nets all have more regional fanbases, and even with their recent successes and the Knicks' recent woes, the Nets at least are far behind in popularity. I also wonder what the impending/possible move to Brooklyn will do to the Nets' base- will they pick up fans in LI and lose fans in NJ, keep both, or just hemmorhage support?
The Mets and Yankees both seem to have widespread popularity just about everywhere- as much as I don't care for baseball, it seems to be the area's #1 sport.
Do you think Moss is doing an Alonzo Mourning and not playing hard in hopes of getting traded next year?
Randy Moss has been making Andrew Walter look bad all year. I've had to watch waaaay more Raider games than anybody should be subjected to (I live in the Bay Area)...
Ok, that one looked like it was on purpose.
Maybe this is Michael Wilbons audition for next season when they get rid of Theisman.
wow-the game was this bad they needed 3 special guest.
The two women sitting behind Al Davis looked like they crawled out of the same coffin as Davis.
Al Davis is a groundbreaker.....
First owner to hire a black coach.
First owner to hire a mute coach.
If the Raiders win this challenge (rulilng of an incomplete pass) ... it could be ruled a catch and a fumble and Seattle Ball. I don't think it will.... but just wondering if somemthing like this has ever happened.
They were going to interview a GMC truck, but it wouldn't fit in the booth.
What exactly were they hoping for with that challenge, that it would be a fumble rather than an incompletion??? It looked like it popped out before he was even contacted.
God, this game is still going? I thought they would've called it on account of mercy by now. Or are they still going for destroying the sack record?
A few years ago in a Steelers-Browns game, the Browns challenged a play that they thought should have been a touchdown, I think it involved a reciever near the goal line and the ruling on the field was that he stepped out of bounds before the ball broke the goalline or something like that.
So the Browns challenged.......But the replay showed that he not only didn't break the goalline, but he managed to fumble the football out of the endzone giving the Steelers a touchback.
I don't think the network would object to a "mercy rule". fromm a ratings standpoint. Right now "Aluminum, our shiny friend" would probably get a better share...
Was this game really sold-out?
Alright, another shot to the nuts on national TV
Ah the old "juevos" play.
That is exactly what this game needed: knee to the groin.
If only Joe Buck were here to offer his opinion.
What a perfect ending to what has been surely the highlight of the MNF season schedule.
What the hell does Terrell Owens have to do with a guy getting kneed in the nuts?
Shut the #$%!? up, Theismann
Theisman also hammered Moss for a dropped pass on a play that would have been negated by an illegal shift penalty anyway.
So what is the record low for comments in any MNF thread here at FO?
This wouldn't have even been a decent pre-season game.
I know 16-0 is not exactly a high probability of winning, bu two scores in under 2 minutes is possible...the Raiders were throwing over the middle and walking up to the line as if it was garbage time already.
17-0 under 2 minutes, fine, but 16-0....that's still a game.
Does anyone know the name of the song from the Cadillac commercial?
With the way that offense was looking, 10-0 with two minutes to go would have been lights out. They looked a little better than they normally do, but 185 total yards, 0 points and 8 sacks given up isn't going to scare anyone, and it certainly isn't an indicator that your team is gonna explode for 16 points in less than two minutes.
Re: Knee to the nuts
I knew I stayed awake for something.
ChrisFromNJ, I am originally from Long Island, and I would say that Nassau County is, at best, 50/50 and Suffolk County is primarily Giants fans.
I can see it now, the new FO weekly column on dirty play: A Night In The Ruts
(in case it's too obscure, it's a joke involving transposing two letters.)
"Does the Giants-Jets map overlay with divisions for Rangers-Islanders or Mets-Yankees? Where do the Devils and Nets fit in?"
Yes, it fits in very much the same. Yanks fans tend to be Giants fans tend to be Rangers fans tend to be Knick fans. Jets/Nets/Mets/Isles. At least as far as Long Island goes.
Chris would know NJ much better, but I would assume that there is significantly more Nets love there than Jets love, and instead of Isles fans you would get Devils fans.
I guess I'm not the only one who decided to do laundry instead of watching the game. I need to know, though - was the kick to the nuts as bad as it sounds? I still haven't seen the clip yet - how did Stevens react? How did Art Shell react? What did they say in the press conferences?
Hopefully Stevens was wearing a cup. With a mouth like that...
I can't believe everyone went for the Haynesworth comparison. I'm all for nut-protecting but ripping off a helmet and stomping on a guy's head, twice, is just a wee bit worse than a knee to the groin.
Just wanted to add a few things to the conversation:
1) I saw very little of the game. My wife wanted to watch the CMAs last night and I wasn't about to argue for the audible orgasm that is Tirico/Kornheiser/Theisman. But I did go upstairs (and left the wife to deal with the dogs) to watch Heros. I really like that show, and thankfully I haven't been overly enthralled by many of the MNF matchups, so I've had the pleasure of getting hooked. And even if I can't bare to miss the game, Sci-Fi re-runs last week's episode and 7 o'clock every Monday (the new episode airs at 9 o'clock on NBC) so it's pretty easy to not miss anything.
2) Kornheiser had possibly his funniest (only funny?) line ever. I'm not exactly sure what stat he was referring to, but he said something to the effect of "When there are 32 teams and you're (referring to Walters) ranked 34th...that's not good." LOL
3) I'm not really sure about the geographic distribution of the NY area sportsfans, but they definitely overlap between sports. Like Gerry said (I can't speak for NBA allegiances) you have Giants/Yanks/Rangers fans, Jets/Mets/Isles fans, and practically the entire Devils' fanbase is located in Ocean County NJ with no real correlation to any other teams.
4) Can someone get me a link of the nut-shot? I'm too lazy to search YouTube myself and I'm assuming someone has already done the leg-work on this.
Click my name for link to the nutshot video.
At least something worthwhile came from this game.
The only assumption I can make after seeing that clip is that Jeremy Stevens has no nuts. After a shot like that most guys would still be curled up in the fetal position.
Could you imagine how many comments would have been directed to the nutshot if this was a good game, heavily watched, like Ind/NE? A clear knee int he jewels was good for about a half dozen blase comments. In another context, it would have been good for thirty, minimum. If Manning had kneed Brady at the coin-toss, 250 comments. If Vinatieri had gone for Belichick's, at least 150.
Tirico: "And in a surprise move, Rodney Harrison shows no respect for himself by kneeing himself in the groin."
Kornheiser: "I can only assume that means that tomorrow he'll blind-side himself down the stairs while heading down for breakfast."
Theisman: "That's exactly the kind of thing TO wouldn't be mature enough to do...."
What movie won the Springfield Film Festival? Was it titled something like "Man getting hit in the groin by a football" starring Hans Moleman, to be eventually remade into an Oscar-winner with George C Scott? As Homer said, it works in so many ways.
Two more blowouts conclude the playing-off portion of the playoffs, meaning your Super Bowl LI matchup pits the team with the No. 1 offensive DVOA against the team with the No. 2 offensive DVOA.
See All XP | NFL XP | College XP
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties