Talk amongst yourselves
7/29: KC IDP, STL RB
7/27: ARI TE, various IDP updates.
* * * * *
The 2015 KUBIAK fantasy football projection workbook updates all preseason for only $20 -- or get it absolutely free with a $10 first-time deposit at DraftKings.com. Purchase it here!
PURCHASE NOW AND GET PLAYER COMMENTSFULL BOOK AVAILABLE AUGUST 5
Click here to buy PDF version
Official Account: @fboutsiders
Scott Kacsmar: @FO_ScottKacsmar
Ben Muth: @FO_WordofMuth
Aaron Schatz: @FO_ASchatz
Vince Verhei: @FO_VVerhei
-- plus --
Bill Connelly: @SBN_BillC
Cian Fahey: @Cianaf
Brian Fremeau: @bcfremeau
Tom Gower: @ThomasGower
Andrew Healy: @AndHealy
Rivers McCown: @RiversMcCown
Chad Peltier: @CGPeltier
Rob Weintraub: @robwein
Sterling Xie: @SterlingXie
This thread is for continued discussion of the 2007 AFC Championship game.
PEYTON CAN KILL THE GHOSTS RIGHT NOW
second? i want my ribbon
lots of drops by Colts recievers this game
this is is folks
Please Payton, get the TD so we never have to have that argument again.
I'm calling for the closer Tee Martin, to get them over the hump.
THE GHOST IS DEAD THE GHOST IS DEAD
Fletcher catches the bomb inside the Pats 40
If he goes to kill ghosts, he'll get nothing.
OH MHgkpbarmGHL MNAFDAHASR;
What a play by Wayne!
Shit shit shit shit this is coming down to the wire.
Reggie with the amazing Fumble-to-self
Colts don't score too fast here
we gonna do it the colts are gonnA DO IT
Also, props to FO for providing this second thread, its actually loading!
OH MY GOD OH MY GOD
WE GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL
This would be great time for a pick, do you hear me, Pats secondary?
Turns out the RTP call would've had the Colts keep the ball anyway even if Wayne had lost it.
the ghost is dead
PEYTON YOU ARE A GOD
That was incredible... wayne fumbles and then gets it back
Don't turn it over, horsies
PATRIOTS DYNASTY DIES RIGHT NOW
Nothign is over yet. I want this, but they have to be under control.
Oh, this game... It's been everything you could ask for. I've had a heart rate of above 140 the entire second half...
20 - Speaking as someone who isn't a fan of either team... premature celebration is a dangerous thing.
Let's not count our chickens before they hatch, Indy Todd.
THIS IS HOW WE WANTED TO DO IT
I would take my time if I was the Colts,dont want to give Brady time on the clock
I've noticed Manning making a lot of throws off his back foot this game.
Calm your horses, Indy Todd. Peyton has to cash in here with a touchdown first, and then you have to hope Tom Brady forgets that he is... Tom Brady.
The Colts have to worry about scoring too fast here.
BTW CHEAP PENALTY
What kind of crap RTP is that??
Okay, kneejerk reaction over. Did anyone else see exactly what happened? It looked like Manning was barely touched.
7 yards to go
Hand it off to Earnest Byner
did you see a facemask there by that colt lineman?
I LOVE THIS GAME
That the horrible officiating we have all come to know and love
Haha Indy Todd doing all he can to jinx his team.
That said, props to the Colts for running the ball here. A lot of coaches would still be throwing.
3 yards for td, 2 for 1st down
I say the Colts run it again.
Manning/LT runs it in here
THIS IS WHERE PEYTON MANNING KILLS ALL HIS GHOSTS
BIGGEST PLAY OF THE NFL THIS YEAR
Was that really bad hands for Wayne, or really good concentration, or both? I can't decide.
Dial up Edgerrin James!
If Belichick keeps pulling on the collar of his hoodie, it's going to fall clear off - he doesn't have Parcells' man-boobies to keep it up.
Stay away from Samuel. btw
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH THE SUSPENSE!!!
We need overtime!!!!
How about a naked bootleg here?
Over/under on how drunk IndyTodd is anybody?
touchdown. let's see how clutch tommy is
ITS ALL OVER ITS ALL OVER
Edge of my seat.
Last three plays all on the ground.
Pats have 1 minute and 2 timeouts to score a TD, assuming the extra point is good.
WE DID IT
Damn, what a game.
Too much time left.
Now it's up to the Indy special teams. Arg.
I really, really wish you hadn't done that.
No OT today. One more drive.
(pant pant) Still a minute to go. Earn your keep, Mr. Clutch.
"When you see a running back line up right behind Peyton Manning in the backfield, you have to suspect that it might be a run."
Oh, the insight.
1 minute from the super bowl. Don't let Hobbs run this back.
IM IN TEARS I DIDNT THINK THIS WOULD HAPPEN
WE DID IT SUPER BOWL BABY
If this stands up, this is arguably the greatest comeback since since.... I guess the Bills v. Oilers, but this is bigger stakes...
seriously? you guys don't think this is scripted? frick. double frick.
Indy Todd, have you seen the Colts' ST??
Damn it Indy Todd don't jinx it!! Hobbs still gets to return...
Brady has a minute,and if he somehow pulls this off I will be speechless and will bow down to the greatness
So when the Pats come down and score, do we hear more about how Peyton couldn't get it done?
peyton only plays for stats
This KR is gonna be scary.
Man, Manning got killed on that roughing the passer penalty. I think his lipstick got smeared on that play.
time for Special Teams not to play like crap.
66: Sorry about that. I thought I had it in paragraphs.
Do you squib kick?
Memo to Colts fans: don't book your tickets to Miami yet. Still a minute to play.
As if Indy Todd is not a closet PaTS FAN WITH THOSE COMMENTS
Still a minute left... What will happen?
54 seconds to go 80 yards.
Vinatieri gave it everything he had on that kickoff.
1 minute left....
that would have been the perfect time for an onside kick.
This will end on downs or a score, not time.
However this ends
I have to agree this has been one of the most entertaining games I've seen.
And both teams have been playing very close.
LOOK AT BELLICHECK SWEAT
or a turnover.
If Brady pulls this off (probably by throwing to Caldwell) I will concede that he is a better quarterback than Aaron Brooks.
WHAT THE FUCK
44 yards to go, 24 seconds left
One timeout left.
24 seconds, 44 yards, one timeout
24 seconds to go 44 yards... it's possible now.
20 yds down,60 to go.
15 more yards,45 to go
Got to get close enough to put it in the endzone non-hail mary type. Please please please pull a Boise State.
PEYTON IS THE MAN
0:24 till we all start genuflecting.
Caldwell is having one of the worst games I have ever seen.
but not Garrard
In 24 seconds, we'll know if Manning's a choker or not.
24 seconds... 40 yards... I'm glad I'm not a fan of either teamright now.
I don't know if anyone's aware, but I believe NE has 24 seconds to go 44 yards. Just pointing that out.
zzyzx - have you driven past that exit on the 15 on the way from LA to vegas??
AAAAAAAAAGH COLTS WIN
Marlin Jackson picks it off and has enough sense to just fall down!
It's a miracle!
Blue 38 on 1. Slip the refs a few. Get PI called. then score the T. Or not.
where the hell was the comeback king throwing that one???
What a game. Congrats to the Colts.
Brady cannot get that Colts monkey off his back...
TOM BRADY CLUTCH INTERCEPTION!!1
Tom Brady, Clutch God
WOW. Best game of the year.
COLTS to the SUPERBOWL!
Unlike the charger guy, he wwent down immediately after the pick.
Tom Brady is so clutch
Man Brady is so CLUTCH!
How perfect, a Brady INT to seal the victory.
Ugh. Picked off. Congratulations to Manning and the Colts, and the Colts fans here. You guys deserve it: that's the best game I've seen this year.
What a game. I still can't believe Indy came back from down 18 agaisnt that defense...
JUST LIKE RED SOX YANKEES
BIGGEST COMEBACK EVER TO DO IT
wheres the clutch fumble
picked! Marlin Jackson!
Colts go to Super Bowl.
Manning clutchest qb performance I've seen.
Largest comeback ever in Conference Championship Game.
Can't wait to read Simmons' column.
Wrong outcome as a fan.
Right outcome for a prize pool.
Holy crap, what a game.
And you'll be hearing the Dungy / Lovie storyline angle for 2 weeks...
what a game what a game....
Hot damn! That was one of the best games I've seen in years! Congrats to Manning and the Colts for FINALLY knocking the "best team ever" out of the playoffs.
Wow largest comeback in a championship game.
Alright! Part one of my ultimate playoffs fantasy has happened... the Patriots lose. Now for part two... Peyton Chokes in the SuperBowl!
Congratulations Colts fans. It's good to be king. I thought we had in the bag at 21-3 but your team kept fighting.
Game Of The Year
It was the flu, I tell you. They couldn't possibly play at their best with the flu. (Sorry, I had to get one lame whine in.)
Wow. Fantastic game.
Well i wouldnt call this one as good as boise state-oklahoma, but the best pro game of the year
so... early line.... I'm guessing Colts by 7?
And I'm spent
Allright Pats fans... time to eat crow....
Unreal game. Congrats to Indy and their fans.
I am glad we don't have to look at Reche Caldwell's eyes anymore.
All the posts in this thread and the other one referencing Game of the Year:
Amazing stuff. This is why we watch football.
so brady rode the coat-tails of vinateri all along, he is finally exposed. Its like kobe vs shaq...oh wait its nothing like that.
#151 obviously means Rutgers-Louisville, not Boise State-Oklahoma :)
And yeah, best pro game of the year bar none.
Did I miss the obligatory Manning/Brady handshake, or did Brady just run off into the locker room?
... nice clutch win after going up 21-3...
Nice clutch answer to Manning's TD drive....
AND EVERYONE REJOICES!
Brady is NOT Montana...
Jackson, having dared to intercept Tom Brady's patented super clutch ball was admitted to an Indianapolis hospital with second and third degree clutch burns on his hands and chest.
Greatest game in the history of the NFL
Gratz to Colts.
Their fans really need to learn something about how to behave when winning a game. #154 is a pitiful comment. Eat crow for losing a game on the road by 4 points? Get real.
Legend status, like I said. About 350 posts and 4 FO crashes ago.
154: I'd eat crow if I had actually trashtalked. I hardly think I was antagonizing any Colt fan other than playoffsfinally, who was pissing a lot of people off...
Oh, thank God. No offense, Patriots fans, your team kicks ass - but God, I'm glad to see Manning win.
110: Obviously not.
I can't wait until I get a hold of a copy of this game from somewhere now, Damn UK tv.
Read up on a QB named Frank Reich. Good reading. At one point he had the biggest comebacks in NCAA and NFL history. Still has the biggest comeback in NFL history. Here's a hint: 18 points with over a half to play isn't even close.
I think Indy Todd might have passed out
Thank you for phrasing it that way.
Amen #155... and I am a Pats fan. Those eyes freak me out.
Strange PI call/non-call in the game, although maybe I just don't understand face-guarding. Still, when the Pats didn't convert the 3rd they seemed likely to lose. Basically, 12 men in the huddle cost them the game! (In a way)
Congrats Indy fans... at 21-3 I thought it was OVER.
I'm stunned. The Pats never let that happen- teams might get close, but they'd pull it together in the end. Peyton shook off a nightmare first half and was in the zone down the stretch.
Atleast now the Tom Brady clutch shit will stop.
What was that, 3 or 4 3 and outs with a chance to put the game away, in the fourth quarter alone? All they needed was one first down that 2nd to last drive, and they couldnt even get that.
onestly, I think Belichek gets a little blame here: Did anyone see the Draw work once in the 2nd half? Indy was looking for it every play and they kept running it.
Ah, well, time to wallow in the Bruins' misery and
Alcohol until the Red Sox start up.
I've got the Bears for SB large. But my numbers said NE over IND by 5, average. Of course, this game wasn't about average. Great game for the Colts. And showed they can win 15-6 or 38-34, with offense or defense.
But now feel Bears a near-lock, as long as their A-team D shows up. The Bears O gets ripped, but two teams scored 38+ today. And one only allowed 14 on D.
Tom Brady should do the Super Bowl coin toss now IMO.
Maybe somebody will finally call Belichick out on being such a sore douche when he loses, refusing to acknowledge Manning and shoving by him.
Montana won all his playoff games? I must have missed that...
Belichik coaching in the probowl, that should be nteresting.
178: I'm sure TMQ will call him a failed human being or something.
Stop Making shit up.
He clearly aknowledged him, and PATTED HIM on the belly.
Did he just give a shout out to God? I thought only rappers did that.
a) it really helps to have the home field advantage at this stage
b) Trying to beat Chargers and Colts back to back on the road was just a bit too much for this Pats team. I suspect it would be too much for any other team. I still think the Chargers would have cleaned the Colts' clock in San Diego, but not only do you have to have the best players, you also have to have a good game day coach. That's why Dungy and Belichick were out there today while Billick and Schottenheimer were at home.
c) I really hope the Pats re-sign Sammuel. But reports are they are not even close.
d) The Colts really have a damned good offense.
e) Colts fans really need to learn some class.
I think the Colts are going to walk all over the Bears. If the Bears had their entire D, they might have a chance, but they've got too many injuries to key players and there's no way Rex & co. will be able to keep up with this Colts offense.
#176 : Ah yes, but the Bears are in the NFC. So no one will say we can win.
Everybody shouts out to God I feel like. Oh man I can't believe how crazy this game was... obviously the Boise ending was more insane, but given the history I think this had greater emotional impact. I wasn't a fan of either team (although I was rooting for Peyton), but jesus.... insane.
You did seem him talking to Dungy right? Does he have to be nice to every member of the Colts team to qualify for you?
Yes, we see more examples of a lack of class of Patriot haters.
So how long has Dungy been an African-American coach? Just wondering...
#184-What did the Colts fans do that was a lack of class?
182: Didn't look like it to me. It looked like Manning sought him out and Belichick just sort of kept moving with a pissed off look on his face. He did congratulate Dungy, though. Maybe he just hates Manning.
The Colts run the same base D that the Vikes run, and they made Grossman look like one of the worst QBs ever. Dungy needs to call Tomlin and get some Vikes-Bears game tape. They should stack the line against the run since they dont have the Vikes DTs, but they have better pass rushers. On offense run, run, run, run, play-action, run, and let Grossman hand the game to you.
Pats fans, to be fair, I don't think everyone bashing on the Pats are actually Colts fans.
I think I know maybe one actual Colts fan, from Indiana.
Everyone I know, though, is at some level an anti-Patriots fan.
So its not really fair to blame colts fans and say they need more class, etc.
If the Colts win the Super Bowl, maybe Manning will finally get an endorsement deal.
Congrats Bobman, Yaguar, Purds, stan, other Colts fans on the board.
Yes I'm still up but the site has been inaccessible since the series when Manning fell over and hurt his thumb. This is what I tried to post then;
Damn. WordPress error as the game gets exciting. No Colts can stay on their feet, Manning hurts his hand, Caldwell drops a ball completely uncovered and the Colts get a break in the Endzone. That really should have been called PI.
The Colts got at least 2 huge slices of luck; The PI in the endzone that wasn't called, and then Reggie Wayne somehow managing to catch his own fumble.
Now it's all over, I'd like to say that the Patriots are a great team, and a fantastic organisation. Notwithstanding that, I'm pleased that the Colts won because,
1: I'm a Miami fan and therefore can't root for New England.
2: I'm English, and therefore genetically disposed to dislike a consistent winner.
3: It's about time that Manning and particularly Tony Dungy made the big game.
Finally, that was the best game I've seen all year.
Then you missed it.
He CLEARLY looked at Manning, patted him twice on the stomach, and then kept going towards Dungy.
189: Props, I made that joke to the room after Lovie won... god I hope somebody asks it just for a sense of history.
jack del rio get asante samuel for me, please.
Will Ned Macey be doing this for AGS? :)
#176: New Orleans does not have a good secondary. Which we saw, several times today. It's doubtful guys will get that wide open versus Indy. That's going to be a great game.
Colts fans really need to learn some class.
Am I the only one willing to cut the Colts fans a little slack? I remember what it felt like in 2004 when Philly won the NFC after coming so close so many years. I just think they deserve a little leeway - Patriots fans are blessed with a bit of an abundance of recent good fortune with respect to playoff success, mind you.
#168 and 139: It's the biggest comeback in the championship game.
I don't think it's worthwhile to second-guess Belichick. The Pats put up 31 points - you don't second-guess play-calling after output like that.
As for Brady, he played much better today than he did last week. It's certainly not his fault that the Pats lost. If the Pats want to address a weakness, I would look at the fact that they gave up long drive after long drive to the Colts when stops were needed. Part of the problem was missing Rodney Harrison, but let's face it, Rodney is not going to be a big force in the NFL for many more years. The Pats really need young, strong linebackers and safeties.
196: It doesn't matter if Wayne gets it or not, because they called roughing the passer the same play. It made a difference of a few yards, but it wouldn't have been a turnover either way.
I would just like to thank the people who created black history month for forseeing the day that two black coaches would go up against each other in the superbowl. A lot of people thought febuary was a gip, but clearly there can be no more appropriate month.
Also how many Tom Brady's does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
"Damn. WordPress error as the game gets exciting. No Colts can stay on their feet, Manning hurts his hand, Caldwell drops a ball completely uncovered and the Colts get a break in the Endzone. That really should have been called PI."
I'm of the oppinion that the PI on Ellis Hobbs in the endzone shouldnt have been called either. Yeah, he didnt look back for the ball, but the ball hit him before he hit harrison, which means it should have been treated like a tipped ball...which means no PI. That being said, I'm not surprised it was called.
We're at about 940 posts combining the two threads.
Remember, the record is 1112. (Week 9 Sunday)
Hm, strange. No dogs even covered this week, when did that last happen?
Well, regardless of whether you want to say Bill Belichick blew off Peyton Manning or not, his postgame "interview" was certainly hilarious.
For all the times I've seen Tony Dungy swallow his pride and stand there and take it when his team lost the big game, it makes life a little easier.
We were all against Indy's 2-point conversion try, but being ahead by 4 made a huge difference in the last minute
of course belichek was pissed at the end of the game. He didn't like the script, but he still had to act it out and let the colts win so that he can get his paycheck. NFL rules and all. NFL is *so* pro-wrestlying. that's why they did away with the xfl -- it hit too close to home with the scripted storylines.
Belichek's post game interview was awesome, as was the Boomer/Marino reaction after.
Ah, I love cheering against the Patriots, but it's hard to hate a surly balding hobo like Belichek.
Big whoop. At some point we have to stop finding new records for every subcategory. Trailing by 18 points in the second quarter is not a big deal for the Colts, or for the Pats, Chargers, Saints, or any other team with a good offense.
As far as I'm considered, the Bills comeback against the Oilers is the only one worth mentioning. If this were the Super Bowl, then sure, it would be worth mentioning. But separate records for the conference championship game? Weak. We might as well start keeping records for every week of the season if we're going to do that.
Congrats to the Colts, the organization, and their fans. Thanks to both teams for a wonderful game.
One to throw a game losing interception, and one to screw in the light bulb?
Clearly you were not watching the same game the rest of us were watching.
I'm not a Pats fan, just one of the many FO readers annoyed by the premature crowning of the Patriots by many of the Patriot homers... this is the post that really irked me... and this and similar ones are ones I'd like you guys to eat crow over.
It goes out to Dan Riley...
Numbers crap their pants, my friends. And hereâ€™s why. You have no wayâ€¦and will never have a way of measuring the intangibles. And for all the Pats Haters out there, this oneâ€™s for you: The Pats always lose to teams with better players, but they never lose to better teams, because they are always the better team. And what makes them better is BB preaching situational football and guys like Brown & Brady playing situational football. McRee didnâ€™t fumble that ball; Brown stripped him. Brady wasnâ€™t on all damn game, he was just on when he absolutely, positively had to beâ€“at the end of the half and with 6 minutes to go in the game. How do you measure that? The loonies can howl all they want about luck and conspiracies and, oooh (a new one) immoral, godless heathenism. The Pats win because of professionalism. I thought for sure they were going to lose on Sunday (and there you go, the numbers bear me out). They SHOULD have lost on Sunday, but every time the camera went to the sideline, they looked like a bunch of firemen fighting a raging 60-story blaze, calmly studying the building blueprintsâ€¦trying to locate the exits and the gas-lines. Crunching numbers canâ€™t account for that level of cool and (uh-oh) calculation...
I'm also annoyed at all the Brady-Montana comparisons. I was expecting greatness, I was expecting a drive with 1 minute left to win an AFC championship... the lore of Elway, the lore of Montana... but what I got was an all to typical regular season game ending interception by Brady. Truthfully, I was expecting the interception... but I'd like to stop all this talk about Brady = Montana. Montana had to score TDs... Brady just had to get into field goal position... and yes I am referring to "The Catch", and The Super Bowl drive... and no you can't use "Jerry Rice" as an excuse...
So take your numbers, metapors, gas-lines, firemen menality and can it. We don't want to hear about it...
Maybe that coach from the Sony commercial really did go back to Peyton's team after the ad break. It seems that was the point when the Colts O turned it around...
"I donâ€™t think itâ€™s worthwhile to second-guess Belichick. The Pats put up 31 points - you donâ€™t second-guess play-calling after output like that.
As for Brady, he played much better today than he did last week. Itâ€™s certainly not his fault that the Pats lost. If the Pats want to address a weakness, I would look at the fact that they gave up long drive after long drive to the Colts when stops were needed. Part of the problem was missing Rodney Harrison, but letâ€™s face it, Rodney is not going to be a big force in the NFL for many more years. The Pats really need young, strong linebackers and safeties. "
The playcalling didnt put up 31 points. The playcalling put up 21 in the first half, and then couldnt do anything in the 2nd half except on an 80 yard kick return. He kept going to the draw play when it clearly wanst working in the 2nd half.
To be fair to the defense, hawkins missed the whole second half, as did Roosevelt Colvin. Tully Banta-Cain was also out for a good amount of time.
When a defense gives up a long drive, the offense needs to step up, and eat some clock so the defense can rest. The Pats offense didnt do that once in the whole 2nd half. The patriots longest drive in the 2nd half was 2:45 seconds. Most were under a minute.
Yeah, he didnt look back for the ball, but the ball hit him before he hit harrison, which means it should have been treated like a tipped ballâ€¦which means no PI.
Are you sure about that? I could've sworn that his waist hit Harrison before the ball hit him in the back. It's too bad the NFL is cutting down on YouTube hosting clips - that'd be a nice one to see. I will say, though, that Hobbs was a moron for not turning around. He starts turning around at all, and that's an interception. Then again, whoever hit Gaffney out of bounds was a moron, too - without that hit, I seriously, seriously doubt he lands with both feet in bounds.
211 - Oooh, conspiracy theories. I like.
Getting it plotted all the way down to Addai tripping Manning, and the bounce going right to Saturday, that takes some work.
Oh wait, I thought the fix was in for the Saints, not the Colts?
We haven't seen it in the UK. Can someone explain what when on in the Belichick interview?
Two: One to screw in the lightbulb and one to screw Giselle Bundchen.
#216: Psst! Don't encourage him!
the Hobbs PI was textbook faceguarding. The ball always hits the defender first when you do that. It's still illegal.
I was more annoyed with the offensive PI called against Troy Brown in the third quarter. Of course, since I don't know what the rules are in that situation, I don't have much ground to stand on, but it looked like the contact was nowhere near the area where the ball was thrown. And I'm sure Brown just thought it was a standard hit that you're allowed to do near the line of scrimmage. That penalty killed that particular drive.
I'd be fine with the NFL scripting games if they all ended that entertaining.
Unfortunately, we get Cardinals-Niners twice a year.
Re: 207 the record is 1112. (Week 9 Sunday)
Do you know if that thread had lots of Word Press errors as well, or can we count the ones that were lost here because of that? I'd say at least 100 were lost, but I guess that's playoff football.
#210: True, but more often than not going for 2 so early comes back to bite you. Say they missed and lost on a last second FG? Regardless its the wrong move even if it worked. Sort of like those plays where you go: no, no, no!! yes, yes, yessss!!
225 The hit by brown looked like it was well before the ball was thrown too, should have been illegal contact if anything.
217 MFurtek, I get that Riley's post was annoying, but understand that there are those of us who are Patriots fans who didn't believe a word of that stuff.
In other words, I am not really sure who else you're telling to east crow other than DR.
Bill Belichick is the best coach in the NFL. He is the biggest reason the Patriots have won 3 Superbowls in the last 6 years. And he is the biggest reason they won't win a fourth. The Patriots go for it on fourth down more than anyone else in the league, and they are very good at it. The Colts have a bad defense, and an offense so good as to make its starting field position almost irrelevant. Why, then, would you (twice) not go for it on 4th and 2, even in your own half? Why would you not instruct your co-ordinator to call 3rd and 4-6 with an awareness of the fact that you will go for it on 4th and short? Why, against an awesome offense that has run your defense ragged, would you not simply instruct your players to allow the score from 1st and 10 at the 11 with just under 2:00 remaining? Given that you didn't, why would you waste 30 seconds by not calling a timeout after that play?
I'm a fan of 4-down football for most teams against nearly anyone, except the Ravens and especially the Bears, against whom one should play two-down football, punting on 3rd to avoid a return, until in or near field goal range. But a good offense playing the Colts is in four down country the length of the field. Belichick has more job security than anyone else alive. He has a long history of making decisions that fly in the face of conventional wisdom. Why not this one?
I'd like to see a logical argument where its the wrong call. The NFL rate for 2 point conversions was over 50 percent this year, IIRC, so technically, not going for it is the wrong call.
I don't mind the scripting, as long as they'd admit it. This "professional" sport is so much a regular tv show that runs for the fall season, but you can attend live tapings. cardinals-niners is the undercard. and by scripted I mean the same way that wrestling was scripted. the outcome was decided, but the "game" was up to the performers.
#210: Wait: who the devil was against Indy's 2-point conversion try? Why is it stupid, down two, to go for two?
Phil Simms's argument was crap - "if you don't get it, and NE scores a TD, you're down two scores" - yes, Phil, but if you kick the PAT, and NE scores a TD, you need a two point conversion again for it to be a one-score game. Might as well go for it now and know where you stand and what you need. Is there another one?
#173 - the thing is, I do think that Brady is clutch, that Bellichick is a genius, and all the other overblown cliches I usually make fun of. It's just that I also think that:
1. Just because you're clutch, it doesn't mean you always win.
2. Just because you lose, it doesn't mean you choked.
Anyway, I really don't want to re-hash old arguments. This was a fantastic game, and NE has nothing to be ashamed of.
Oh, and one more thought. The only thing more disgusting/hilarious than Peyton Manning getting a ring on the back of his defense and get all the credit would be Peyton Manning riding the defense in every game but the AFC Championship, where he throws for 450 and 4 tds/0 ints yards against a banged up Pats secondary. You know why it would be so awful? Because that Pats game would make it impossible to convince any major sportswriter to share the credit to the Colts D, even though he was mediocre to bad in all but that game. Oh, and as someone else pointed out in another thread, the reason it would be disgusting in the first place is because weâ€™ve all been saying that Peyton doesnâ€™t need to drag a bad defense to a Superbowl to prove himself, and so for him to actually be carried by his defense and then anointed as a HoFer QB by the press, more of the same f*cked up logic, would really be ironic. We got what we wanted, but we had to get it their way.
:: Dan R. â€” 1/14/2007 @ 4:54 am
#235 - of COURSE they have nothing to be ashamed of. They acted their hearts out -- made me really feel like they were trying to win. Any good stage performance deserves applause.
Just so understand better.
What is it that you all hate more: Brady? Belichick? The Patriots organisation?
I'm surprised that after such a great game there are so many negative posts.
Congratulations to the Colts, I hope they have a great game and beat the Bears.
a sad Patriots fan.
It's the playoffs, you have to overcome obstacles like the Colts did.
Rick, that Troy Brown OPI occurred in the 2nd quarter and would have given the Pats the ball inside the Colt 20 already up 18. It was the biggest play in the game by far. Nevertheless, it was an easy call to make. An offensive player can't block downfield on a pass play unless it's a pass behind the line of scrimmage. He clearly ran right into the guy.
OPI applies from the snap to the first touch, not the throw to the first touch. DPI applies from the throw to the first touch.
It was OPI.
Re: 232. FootballCommentary.com agrees with you. Down two points with 18 minutes left in the game, they say you should go for it if you have more than a 25% chance of success.
Part of why I don't think it's worth second-guessing Belichick is
a) He's won three Super Bowls.
b) He obviously understands football better than most NFL coaches
c) He definitely understands what's going on out there better than I do.
Bad play calling didn't force Reche Caldwell to drop passes when he was wide open.
As for the draw plays, the Pats really didn't try that many. They only tried one running play in the fourth quarter. In the third quarter they tried a few. One of them was broken by Kevin Faulk for 8 yards.
I think the Pats needed to control the clock a bit more in the second half. They needed to use the running game. It just wasn't working.
Re. #211: I can't believe I'm wasting my time on it, but--you have things utterly ass-backwards. There's no NEED to fix the games so the "best story" wins. There's something called the MEDIA that has the ability to CREATE stories about whatever team it needs to.
These aren't negative posts, if you want negative posts read the end of the Chargers-Pats game thread, and the audibles at the line comments.
and my previous post should have been 970. we can do it!
#245: Psst! Stop encouraging him!! :)
The only really bad call was the non-PI on Caldwell, but in retrospect he probably would have dropped that one too. The RTP at the end was totally iffy, but they've been calling them like that all year.
Overall, no regrets. The Pats blew a few, it was as expected a tight game and the Colts won square. Good for them.
Losing like this cannot make one feel bad, it was just a great game between two great teams, going down to the wire.
Hope the Pats keep Asante and get a good WR in the off-season, plus stock up on DBs and LBs in the draft. They are all set otherwise.
Rick, their longest drive in the 2nd half was 2:45. Thats what lost the game. The offense did absolutely NOTHING in the 2nd half.... just like in Denver.
err, i meant yay. yay.
#245 hehe. the story has been getting built up since 2003. This was the final straw. unless they are trying to get us to see Indy as the "face" for another year, then Indy will lose the SB and be back next year.
239- Fans like yourself are the exception, and in general the posters here at FO aren't bad, but the media and most of the fans are enough to drive people insane. I'm a Colts fan solely because of how sick I am of the Patriots and all the hype they get from the media and fans. Brady and Belichick are good, but they're not invincible, they can lose, they are mortal. The incessant worship of them drives people mad, so when they lose in this fashion, everyone's happy about not having to put up with a year of Pats worship when the beat the Bears
The only bad call? There was a pass interfernce on the Pats that wasn't called before the Wayne trip.
You can't hold the recievers arm back, it should have been called. Whatever, Colts win.
Does Belichick call the offensive plays? I didn't think so, so it seems strange to me to second guess him.
Congrats to Colts fans for the AFC championship and congratulations to NE fans for another great season.
Re: 244. Your logic is one of the things I hate the most about the Patriots. No coach should be above second guessing. If they make a bad call, they deserve to be called out for it.
I hate when the Patriots do something surprising, and commentators go "Well I don't understand that, but I'll trust Bill Belicheck." Screw that! If you don't like it, say so!
#243: Oh my God, what was up with Caldwell? Could he have possibly had an easier TD? Wide open, right in his chest - how do you drop that if you're an NFL receiver?
(Of course, my thought is that come a few months from now, he won't be one. At least, not for the Patriots.)
Did a comment just get removed? Otherwise Pat is chiding me for mistakingly referencing myself.
I dunno Pat, I mean how early in the game do you go for it when you're down 2? I think it's a fine decision to make, particularly given momentum at the time, but kicking it would have been an OK decision I think.
All the numbers are messed up again.
#257: Yes, because some nutcases are posting super long single words (yay with many y's) which screw up the column formatting.
No offense to those nutcases, though. But quit it! :)
Yes, My post got removed where I blew out the frames from sheer joy. I'm a long time poster with a history of reasoned, informed discussion, but all i can think is yayyyyyyyyyyyy (but with less y's.)
# 250 someone has watched too many Rocky movies..
Really great, exciting game. Insy really had to go out and win it in the 2nd half and they did. Hard luck to the Pats, I'm sure they will be back stronger next year.
I dunno Pat, I mean how early in the game do you go for it when youâ€™re down 2?
Any time in the second half. In the first half, by definition, time is on your side. In the second half, you never know how many more possessions you're going to get.
Don't compare this game to the Denver game, Rich. The Pats lost last year in Denver in an embarrassing fashion. In this game, you know what? It's hard to burn clock when your kick returner keeps giving you excellent field position. It's NOT the offense's fault for not scoring enough points. Blame the defense. They gave up long drive after long drive, and made a number of stupid mental errors along the way. Neutral zone infractions? That's bush league nonsense.
I only know one thing...BRADY IS SO CLUTCH!!!
(he also has magical powers)
nutcases?... I'm happy, cut me some slack bud.
listen to the pregame show again -- "Why does it always come down to these 2 teams" "rivalries are good for the nfl" "you're going to have good ratings tonight, CBS". More proof it's all planned out. You need to pit a team that everyone hates against a team everyone either loves, or at least thinks is "fun". The only thing that would trump that would be a good "story" ie. the "patriots" in *2001*.
266: It's a loving sort of nutcase, Nathan. Enjoy it man, I can't even fathom the emotional stress that game would have caused if I were a fan of either team.
Well, it was an exciting game. I shouldn't direct my comments to ALL Pats fans, there are some that know who you are... every team has homers, some are unapologetic at arguing against every call that goes against their teams. I think I actually fall into that area. Others are more realistic with their team.
I thought the bad call was the uncalled PI against the Colts in the end-zone... I'm unsure if NE ended up scoring a TD off that drive, but it looked like clear PI.
I'd have to say whoever was calling the plays left an opening at the end with the strategy. Playing for the FG, which wasn't really a gimme... and then giving the ball to Peyton with ~ 3 minutes left seemed to be a mistake, especially when they just put 20+ points on the board.
This game was truly Karate Kid-esque, and I swear I heard someone on the Pats sideline screaming, "Body Bag, he's gonna need a body bag!" after Asante ran back that interception. Mr. Miyagi must've come in and performed a miracle to the Colts offense. I don't think Manning threw to Harrison at all after halftime... Asante will be expensive to keep.
#266: I did say "no offense to those nutcases". :)
Re: 267. I want you to know that I hate you.
It is offensive pass interference if anyone on the offense goes downfield and hits a defender to either get himself or another player open to catch a pass. An O-lineman can get called for it. It can happen before the ball is thrown. It can happen on the other side of the field from where the pass is thrown.
Now, I have to read the first twenty pages of Nicomachean Ethics, and write something about it.
I'm way too hyped right now.
Over a thousand posts!
Oh man, It was like the Steelers game, if we actually won. But more. Much more. hahaha.. soo happy.
Well, that's over 1,000.
Re: 296 Itâ€™s the playoffs, you have to overcome obstacles like the Colts did.
Does that mean that we can't count the two threads as one? That would be a huge obstacle.
I of course love the Pats. They dragged their sorry, sick, injured asses back and forth across the country and played like men right to the bitter end. It was a fantastic game to watch, exciting right to the last play.
It also goes to show you that all the games matter, as the loss in Foxboro in November was the reason the Pats were shivering with the flu in a strange hotel in the midwest instead of playing at home. So Indy deserves credit twice, really.
It's always a bummer when the season's over, and moreso when it ends early, but the team doesn't owe us anything really. Perhaps it softens the blow a bit because in the back of your mind you realize it brings satisfaction to your internet friends like Bobman and yaguar, and the guy with all the ggggrrr in his name, and everybody else I'm forgetting.
But my friends live in Naperville. And so ***Paulie voice*** Now I must turn my back on you
If a person feels the need to second-guess a coach who just lost a conference championship game by 4 points, when said coach has already won 3 Super Bowls, then that person is really not well situated emotionally to be a fan. Furthemore, it seemed obvious to me that the problem in the second half was the DEFENSE, not the offense. No, the offense couldn't score on EVERY SINGLE DRIVE the way the Colts seemed to. That's not a function of play-calling, though.
# 267 Ok im in. Why the * around 2001. Do you doubt the existence of that year? Quotes such as you have there are not proof of anything. You have a theory and maybe you are correct, you just can't prove it. When you can, I'm all ears.
Eh, conspiracy theories on the NFL=dumb. And it takes away from both teams.
273: Dude, same boat, I have an assignment due tomorrow but I'm only beginning to wind down to the point I can do that. What a game.
Puzzled, why pay attention to the NFL if it's fixed? Go away.
Steelers had to win last year. The "Bus'" last year, and everyone knew who he was. and for his dad and all. Tiki's last year this year, but he wasn't as well known as the BUS. The refs always get away with it though, just like the quick count on Bret Hart.
I have to do something to wind down... You guys have a great night. Colts win. I'm so crazy happy. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... I mean we. we.
no, that would be impossible for word press to handle right now.
"The only bad call? There was a pass interfernce on the Pats that wasnâ€™t called before the Wayne trip."
True, but I have seen those called pretty much like that all year. I think the refs' argument is, if the defender sticks their arm between the receiver's arms to go for the ball, contact is inevitable but the the play is fair, and it's hard to discriminate those that are not (pulls, etc). There are always some of those each game, only the most blatant are called.
#282: I suggest the "inverse Field of Dreams approach."
Just the first twenty pages? Is it at least in the original?
They scored 13 points in the 2nd half against possibly the worst defense in the NFL.
Patriots drives in the 2nd half
3 and out
4 plays for TD
3 and out
6 plays for FG
4 plays for FG
3 and out
3 plays and pick
The problem was, the pats gave up a long drive, then the offense immediately came out and gave the ball back.
#278 oh, 2001 was the year of the bombings. we needed a story to bring the country together. The PATRIOTS (along with them being such a *TEAM*) were that story. They had to beat the Rams that year.
239: Its Brady.
Belichick, smart coach, respect his work ethic and his leadership, patriots organization, Im indifferent, its just a team. But Brady aggravates me for some reason, and I suspect it has to do with my disdain for overly lucky people. Good quaterback yes, no question, certainly better than mine (Eli). But I dislike the media sensation he has been made out to be, he has been annointed god of football based on an accurate kicker, difficult teams getting elimnated early in the playoffs, and a lot of lucky calls. But hey, maybe its not even Brady. If I go back to the source, its probably overly obnoxious sportcasters and fans interjecting their non-logic and complete dismissal of the poor decisions and plays hes made. This is certainly not all the fans, Ive got NE fans as friends, but they acknowledge their teams shortcomings.
My bro (jets fan) has an easier explaination, he hates Brady because A. division rival, B. the jets gave him the starting job when Bledsoe went down.
Dear Patriots Fans: are you now willing to concede that luck (good fortune, unpredictable events, whatever you want to call it) has something to do with who wins a football game? It does nothing to diminish the Colts' win to point out a number of places where things went their way (they forgot to cover Caldwell, but he drops the pass; Wayne fumbles the ball straight up in the air surrounded by NE defenders and it comes right back down to him, the official decides to call this year's obligatory roughing the passer penalty on the same play, I'm sure you can cite many other instances.) There were plenty of times in this game that fortune smiled on the Patriots as well. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't. Foolish losers will claim that the winners "just got lucky;" astute winners will recognize that they DID "get lucky," but they didn't "JUST get lucky"--they had to put themselves in a position to take advantage of the breaks that came their way and then be good enough to seize those opportunities. The Patriots have been masterful at that over the past few seasons; pointing out that some of their wins included elements of luck is no insult.
oops sorry meant to address 238
I don't like the fact that Brady gets all the the credit for his team's success. He's a very good quarterback playing for an incredible coaching staff.
Here are the obstacles Manning has to face when he plays the Pats:
1) a better defense (imagine Peyton getting the play the Colts D--scary)
2) a much better special teams
3) a coaching staff that is light year's better than his own
Belichick isn't just the best head coach in the league. He's the best head coach in the league by a huge margin. He's arguably the best head coach in the history of the NFL. His teams are always, always better prepared than his opponents. He doesn't have the best players (although they are better than most on this board think), but he knows exactly what he wants to do and how to maximize what he has.
Brady played shit last week. Absolute shit. He had the nice drive at the end of the half and one deep ball to a clearly open WR at the end. Other than that it might as well have been Kyle Boller out there throwing the ball over heads and into the ground. Yet he gets some kind of credit for a win despite the fact he just managed to play in a game where he didn't fuck up the most.
#213: Hey it was CBS that pointed it out, besides it can be used to irk the super clutch , intangibles and profesional Pats, etc. You know if it was Brady who did that we wouldn't hear the end of it from the 'experts'.
It's not the reading, although I HATE Aristotle's style of writing (give me Plato anyday), it's the writing.
Nothing I can't do, I just can't fit anything into my mind except NFL right now.
So asteriks mean they were bombings that year? Are the patriots *TEAM* going to be the victims of some nefarious plot?
238: Do you want to know what I hate? I hate cliches. I hate it when sportswriters, sportscasters, etc resort to the same tired "Brady Clutch/Manning Choker" dichotomy without any further analysis. I hate reading Peter King's blowjobs columns about Brady's Clutch and Belichick's Genius. I hate the fact that, although the story has actually been quite different each of the three Pats Super Bowls, they're treated as exactly equal.
The Colts winning means I get to read about and hear about something new, rather than the same old cliches. The manner of the win means that we can hopefully retire all of the "clutch" talk and all of the "choker" talk from columnists, pundits and fans.
I am now wondering what the meeting between the AFC pro-bowl team (aka the Chargers) and Bill "no class" Belichick is going to be like. I've had to work with people that I haven't liked before, but nothing like that. I think this is the first Pro Bowl game that I'm going to watch.
Which receivers were truly most effective with the ball in their hands last season? We look at the leaders in YAC+ for 2014 and the last nine years.
See All XP | NFL XP | College XP
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties