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23 Jul 2012

The Herm Edwards All-Stars

by Sean McCormick

To this point, our Coaching All-Stars series has focused on some of the most successful coaches of the modern era, guys like Bill Parcells, Dick Vermeil, and Tom Coughlin. For this installment, we’ll look at a coach who understood that you play to win the game, even if he wasn’t so sure how to translate that into, you know, actual wins. Herm Edwards was a coordinator on Tony Dungy’s staff in Tampa Bay, and he tried to bring the patented Buc Cover-2 defense to New York and, later, Kansas City. What makes Edwards interesting is that he had a clear idea of what he wanted his teams to look like, and occasionally had good success with his blueprint. So what would an ideal Herm Edwards team look like? Let’s examine it.

"SKILL PLAYERS"

QB: Chad Pennington, 2002 Jets
RB: Curtis Martin, 2004 Jets
FB: Richie Anderson, 2001 Jets
WR: Laveranues Coles, 2002 Jets
WR: Santana Moss, 2004 Jets
TE: Tony Gonzalez, 2008 Chiefs

The Jets had a quietly efficient offense during the Edwards years, posting a top-10 DVOA four times from 2001-2005, and it’s no surprise to see them monopolizing the skill positions. Chad Pennington was a revelation when he was inserted into the lineup three games into the 2002 season. His DYAR was second behind only MVP Rich Gannon, while his 40.5% DVOA was easily tops in the league. Pennington’s favorite target that year was Laveranues Coles, who cashed in on his career season with a big contract from Daniel Snyder. Santana Moss would also wind up in Washington (traded for Coles, who returned to New York) in the wake of an efficient 2004 season where he averaged 18.6 yards per reception and had a DVOA of 28.5%. Curtis Martin topped our advanced stat charts in 2004, which gets him the nod over Larry Johnson’s 1,789-yard, 17-touchdown 2006 campaign. When Richie Anderson wasn’t paving the way for Martin, he was a legitimate receiving threat. Tony Gonzalez led all tight ends in DYAR in both 2006 and 2008, but we’ll go with the year when he did it as the lone offensive weapon on a 2-14 team with Tyler Thigpen, Damon Huard and Brodie Croyle throwing him the passes.

OFFENSIVE LINE

LT: Jason Fabini, 2001 Jets
LG: Brian Waters, 2006 Chiefs
C: Kevin Mawae, 2004 Jets
RG: Will Shields, 2006 Chiefs
RT: Kareem McKenzie, 2004 Jets

A conservative coach like Edwards lives and dies with his offensive line, and it’s no surprise that Edwards’ fall in both New York and Kansas City were precipitated by massive injuries and/or decline in the play up front. The interior lineman are all Canton-worthy, though Will Shields was 35 and running on fumes by this point. Kevin Mawae was at the top of his game in 2004, earning a sixth-consecutive Pro Bowl berth while anchoring a group that topped the league in Adjusted Line Yards. Fabini was a holdover from the Bill Parcells drafts, a mid-round mauler who compensated for less than elite athleticism with a nasty attitude, while McKenzie came aboard with Edwards in 2001.

FRONT SEVEN

DE: John Abraham, 2001 Jets
DE: Jared Allen, 2007 Chiefs
DT: Jason Ferguson, 2004 Jets
DT: James Reed, 2007 Chiefs
MLB: Jonathan Vilma, 2005 Jets
OLB: Derrick Johnson, 2007 Chiefs
OLB: Eric Barton, 2004 Jets

As a Tony Dungy disciple, you would expect Edwards to put more emphasis on pass rush than run defense, and it comes through in the front seven personnel. Edwards' own personal Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis were the tandem of John Abraham and Jared Allen. If you were using these particular years, they would combine for 28.5 sacks, nine forced fumbles, and one defensive touchdown. With the combination of Tamba Hali and Shaun Ellis on the bench, you have the makings of a very solid group. The interior line is a different matter. Aside from 2004, when the Jets rush defense was fifth in DVOA, Herm’s coaching tenure was marked by run defenses that ranged from mediocre to truly pitiful. We’ll go with a tandem of Jason Ferguson and James Reed: low-round plug-and-play types who could be counted on to do their jobs. The linebackers are also nothing to write home about. Vilma was Rookie of the Year in 2004, but we’ll go with his 2005 season when he made 102 Stops and made the Pro Bowl while toiling on an injury-ravaged unit. Johnson was a solid-but-unspectacular first-round pick, while Barton was a journeyman linebacker who ended up playing for three different teams.

SECONDARY

CB: Aaron Glenn, 2001 Jets
CB: Ty Law, 2005 Jets
FS: Erik Coleman, 2004 Jets
SS: Bernard Pollard, 2008 Chiefs

Part of the charm of the Cover-2 concept is that it is supposed to allow teams to economize in the secondary. With a nasty pass rush coming from the front four, press corners who can run a 4.3 40-yard-dash are a luxury; all you really need is a heady zone corner who can keep the play in front of him and vacuum up errant throws generated by the pressure. Edwards inherited a good cornerback tandem in Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman before signing off on a scheme to free up cap space by dumping both to the Houston Texans in the expansion draft. Edwards, a former corner, relied increasingly on aging veterans as time went on. We’ll go with 2005 vintage Ty Law over 2007 vintage Patrick Surtain, based mostly on Law’s 10 interceptions. The safety picks are essentially random, as Edwards never coached a Pro Bowler. Bernard Pollard knows how to sweep the leg, Kobra Kai-style, so we’ll keep him on the team in case we run into New England at any point. Erik Coleman had a nice rookie season that he failed to build on, and he becomes the free safety by the two sweetest words in the English language: default.

SPECIAL TEAMS

K: Doug Brien, 2003 Jets
P: Dustin Colquitt, 2006 Chiefs
RET: Chad Morton, 2002 Jets

Chad Morton returned two kicks for touchdowns in the 2002 season opener against Buffalo, and he averaged 26 yards on kickoff returns, generating 1560 combined return yards. Morton became the third player on this list to travel down the New York-to-Washington pipeline, signing a five-year offer with the Redskins immediately after the season that New York declined to match. Doug Brien connected on 27-of-32 attempts, and four of his five misses were beyond 50 yards. Dustin Colquitt averaged 44.3 yards a punt and benefited from a good coverage team.

Despite Herm’s fairly modest success as a coach, his specific blueprint generates an All-Star team that could probably hold its own against those of some of the bigger name coaches. Herm valued field position football, as exemplified by a combination of strong special teams and an offense that could control the ball with a dominant interior running game and efficient passing attack. His offenses were consistently among the best in avoiding turnovers, and they were infrequently penalized, thus maxing out their yardage potential. His defenses usually struggled with the run but had strong pass rushers who could close out games in the fourth quarter.

Posted by: Sean McCormick on 23 Jul 2012

59 comments, Last at 03 Aug 2012, 2:12pm by BigCheese

Comments

1
by theslothook :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 3:56pm

Im actually a bit surprised, given that he was a fairly successful headcoach in this league, that edwards hasn't been considered for another head coaching gig or at least interviewed. Now i never liked him from a tactical coaching perspective but i thought he was a solid motivator and his teams did tend to overachieve when they weren't ravaged by injuries.

2
by tuluse :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 4:05pm

I don't know if a 42% win percentage counts as fairly successful.

7
by Jim Glass (not verified) :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 5:26pm

And that 42% greatly overstates his success, considering how he took over two winning, playoff-quality teams and left both in total ruin: 4-12, 2-14.

How he was actively recruited, sought ought, for the KC job, with the Chiefs paying a draft pick to the Jets to get him, after everyone had seen the disaster he produced with the Jets, will be forever beyond my understanding.

9
by theslothook :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 6:03pm

A few worthwhile things to consider. Firstly, i did say fairly successful, not bill bellichickesque. Second, he was able to guide the jets to the playoffs multiple times and in the years he missed, 2003 and 2005, the jets were ravaged by injuries and lost pennington for a significant amount of time(03 they were the 8th most injured team, in 05 they were the MOST injured team).

Now his tour in kansas city was also as much about bad timing as anything else. The chiefs were an old team to begin with and at that point, the bulk of their stars were way past prime. The chiefs perennial o line advantage was gone, larry johnson became a shell of himself, trent greene was done, and the defense was still horrific.

I don't want to sound like im trying to defend herm completely- again, i personally like scheme driven coaches over "rah rah" guys, but herm was effective enough. Put it this way, people like romeo crennel, mangini, gailey, jauron, maularkey, and even norv turner have all been given 2nd and even third chances to coach. HAve any of these coaches been demonstrably better than herm?

15
by Junior :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 7:45pm

"HAve any of these coaches been demonstrably better than herm?"

Good question. Probably not. However, to my knowledge, none of those coaches called timeout in a close game to get a better look at a fumble replay, see that it's obviously not a winnable challenge, challenge it anyway, lose a 2nd timeout, then run out of time at the end of a game and lose by 3?

Did any of those other coaches employ "Flaccid" Dick Curl as QB coach?

I'm incredibly biased, but 'F' Herm Edwards.

19
by theslothook :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 9:30pm

Lol,

I can't believe im stuck defending herm...but if stupid timeout/challenge decisions are the measuring stick of lousy coaching, i know of this coach once who was leading by 17 in the fourth quarter of a wild game against a divisional leading opponent on the road. The opposing team rattled of a pair of tds and closed to deficit to 6 pts. It was ok, the coach's team had the ball and needed only one successful first down from his all nfl offense and they would pull out the win. Inexplicably, after a tv timeout no less, the coach called a timeout of his own. He had used up one of his timeouts earlier so was left with one more. His team ran on first down and was stopped, then threw for 7 yards to set up a 3rd and 2 and then tried another pass that was nearly picked off to reveal a 4th and 2. Heres where it got interesting, he decides to go for it but not before calling yet another timeout after his punt team was already on the field. He went for it, didn't get it, couldn't challenge because of the timeouts and was forced to concede the turnover on downs to the opposing offense. They promptly scored and it was game over with the national media having a feeding frenzy about his decision making.

I'll give you three guesses as to which pathetic inept coach im talking about.

21
by Junior :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 9:45pm

Stupid timeout/challenge decisions aren't the measuring stick of lousy coaching, Herm Edwards is.

And I'm so blinded by Herm Rage that I have no idea who you're talking about, but probably would know in an instant any other day.

I guess the best I could come up with is "Herm never had a 17 point lead to squander", but that's likely false.

To conclude, you can throw out any NFL coach, any at all, and I would take them over Herm. Including, but not limited to:

Martz, Rich Kotite, Abe Gibron, Dennis Erickson, Fontes, and so forth.

29
by Duke :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:05am

Are you being sarcastic? Heck, even without hearing a story I would've put money on who he was going to set up. The story should be obvious.

I wonder if you were even watching football in 2009.

33
by Junior :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 4:11am

Actually, no, I missed the majority of the 2009 season. Was in the middle of nowhere in Central America.

42
by dmstorm22 :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 1:24pm

So you really don't know what 4th and 2 is a reference to?

43
by Junior :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 1:58pm

Sadly, no, as embarassing as that is. I don't pretend to know it all.

I was able to catch a little bit of the 2009 season here and there, rarely as it happened. The only guess would be the Patriots blowing that game against the Colts? Hell I don't know, string me up and burn me at the stake.

44
by theslothook :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:53pm

Lol.

Honestly, that game and that moment was pretty iconic and will be remembered for a long time in the annals of nfl history. Just to give you an idea, regular news stations were discussing it, they had a page in the wall street journal on it, and even college coaches got asked about it. I remember charlie weiss was under fire in his last season at notre dame and got asked about it in a press conference.

47
by Junior :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 3:48pm

Okay, that's settled. I can sleep easier now knowing that Belichick blew a game in 2009.

Other than establishing that I am a moron, nothing I've read here establishes that Herm was even a competent-at-best coach.

48
by theslothook :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 4:05pm

Ok i will try to make as best an argument as I can. Again, im not arguing herm was a great coach or one of the best. I actually think hes average and actually, the results of the teams hes coached seemed to suggest hes better than average but for some reason, people really just have the worst opinion of him. Maybe its because he actually gives soundbites instead of the usual drab responses.

Anyways, herm coached for 8 seasons, out of which, 4 seasons were playoff seasons including two playoff wins. His two jets years where the team failed, that could be attributed partly to injuries and missing his qb(as i detailed above). AS for the chiefs, someone else already mentioned this, but the chiefs were on the decline anyways and by the time herm got there, they were pretty much half buried. Now consider that lovie smith himself has coached 8 seasons and been to the playoffs only three times, with three playoff wins vs herms 2, although it is important to note that one of those wins was at home against a 7-9 seahawks squad that was blown out iN EVERY ONE OF THEIR 10 losses that year.

Now i happen to think lovie is a much better coach, but the results suggest herm was relatively successful as a coach. How far you want to stretch that depends on your personal preference but it hardly suggest he was an abysmal coach that is one of the worst in history. Somewhere lions fans are just getting over rod marinelli and mike singletary is wiping his brow.

50
by Junior :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 6:58pm

All I can say is, if Herm was coaching your team and you watched this buffoon "up close" for a total of 49 games week in and week out you'd realize that any success from a Herm team is in spite of him, not because of him. He's not alone. If Detroit or SF was my hometown team I more than likely would think the same thing about Marinelli and definitely would think the same about Singletary. Herm never sent Tony Gonzalez to the showers to "prove a point" and he never went 0-16 with 3-13 talent either. As far as I know, he kept his pants up around his waist most of the time. I'd still take Marinelli or Singletary over Herm.

55
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:52pm

Actually, Lions fans got over Marinelli a year ago. It would have been even sooner if we had gotten rid of Gosder Cherilus by now.

53
by dmstorm22 :: Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:28am

I didn't intend to sound so belittling. It is cool in a way that there is this huge part of football history that you are oblivious to. In a similar vein, I have never seen any of the Lord of the Rings movies. At this point, I don't see them just because it is fun to be so oblivious to what I've been told is a great thing. It infuriates my friends. At some point, I will see them, but living with this gaping pop-culture hole is fun.

That said, I would recommend at least watching that game (I think the pertinent last four minutes are on Youtube). It is probably one of the 10 most iconic, infamous and memorable football moments of the 2000s, right there with the Tuck Rule, Favre's NFC Championship Game pick in 2009, The Bettis Fumble, Vinatieri's clutch kicks, and David Tyree. It might be the most iconic regular season play of the 2000s (I might be forgetting something in that claim).

54
by Junior :: Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:10pm

Ah it's no problem. I ordered a dvd of that game (along with several other ones from 2009 that I missed due to being out of the country), a year ago but I'm never going to watch it now out of spite. I consider it a victory of sorts that someone compared Herm Edwards to Bill Belichick.

58
by Duke :: Fri, 07/27/2012 - 7:51pm

I like that a google search for "4th and 2" instantly brings up results about that game.

I don't know what else I would expect to happen, but I still like it.

26
by jsa (not verified) :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 12:15am

The 42% winning percentage underrates Herm as a coach. When Herm's teams were bad they were very bad. But he made the playoffs 4 out of 8 years. I'd rather a coach suck occasionally but make the playoffs when they don't suck, then just be mediocre every year. Herm's had three seasons of 4 wins or less, which is bad, but as a fan there's not much of a difference between 4-12 and 6-10.

And his bad seasons had good reasons. With the Jets, every year his QB was healthy he made the playoffs. With the Chiefs his bad years he was starting Damon Huard and Tyler Thigpen.

27
by Junior :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 12:39am

Those are all good, solid points.

Has there ever been any research on losing records and if a 4-12 record for 2-3 years is actually better long-term rather than chronic finishes anywhere from 6-10 to 9-7 for years and years? Assuming the organization was an average-or-better judge of talent.

With the Chiefs, starting about 1999 I started wishing they'd go 3-13 for a year or two so they could start clearing out the retreads and all the Schottenheimer leftover coaches, maybe force the front office to draft a QB (for better or worse).

Anyway, my complete disgust of Herm Edwards wasn't his fault entirely. KC traded for him and drafted a punter early in a year they should have started a complete rebuild. That was not his doing. The players seemed to like him and I think he might be a pretty decent coach during the week. He's a good guy. He wore guys out in practice during the week which probably contributed to some injuries. I can't get past his complete ineptitude on game days. If I'd had more exposure to other coaches every week for 25 years like I have with the Chiefs, there would probably be worse coaches than Herm. Out of all those, Herm is still the last guy I want coaching my team.

32
by theslothook :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:30am

Theres a strong correlation between draft position and likelihood of finding an elite talent. In other words, yes its better to finish 1-15, 2-14, etc than a middling 6-10 7-9 mediocre squad.

However, and bear in mind i haven't exactly researched this so its just my opinion, but those mediocre 6-10, 7-9 squads are likely represented by two sets of teams. One half represents the descent of fading playoff teams that have slowly succumbed to regression, age, and free agency and the 7-9 record is usually that penultimate record before finally bottoming out(see the 10 vikings). The other half is probably comprised of recent 3-13, 2-14 ascending squads that are making the incremental push to the top. Teams don't just go from repeat playoff performances to instant cellar dwellar( the colts being the big exception) and likewise, horrific teams don't go from garbage to instant instant sb contenders(see the lions, 49ers, etc).

36
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 9:55am

Herm seems like a good guy to have on staff as an assistant coach in a player liaison role, with a more competent but prickly coach like Andy Reid (time-management aside) or Belichick.

As a plus, Herm loved ripping the heart out of the giants, something near and dear to both Reid and Belichick.

38
by Independent George :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 11:39am

How much responsibility does Herm have for continuing to start Chad Pennington in 2004, even after he had torn his rotator cuff? It's impossible to prove causation, but many (including myself) suspect that playoff run being the thing that turned Pennington from an injury-prone QB into a perpetual presence on IR.

56
by LionInAZ :: Fri, 07/27/2012 - 12:06am

The real question here is not how many playoff teams Herm Edwards had but what happened to teams after he took over. Look at the record -- the teams he took over were worse off 3-4 years down the road than when he took over. That's a sign, a blinking, flashing neon sign, folks!

59
by BigCheese :: Fri, 08/03/2012 - 2:12pm

Yesterday, I would have probably found myself in the position of sayg that Herm wasn't THAT bad of a coach. Then I did a bit of research.

here are three guys with more wins and better winning percentages than Herm Edwards:
Wade Phillips
Dick Jauron
Dave Wannstedt

So yeah, that settles it in my mind. Herm was TERRIBLE.

- Alvaro

Phil Simms is to analysts what Ryan Leaf is to NFL QBs

34
by Duff Soviet Union :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 8:01am

I can't remember the details of what the Jets were like when he took over, but it's pretty misleading to say he took over a "winning, playoff-quality" team in Kansas City. They were very good in 2005 (although they still somehow missed the playoffs), but that was an old team. Their hall of fame left tackle retired in the offseason, their perennial Pro Bowl guard was in his mid 30's as was their All-Pro centre, their dual threat yardage machine running back had already broken down, and their old star quarterback suffered a massive concussion in Herm's very first game and subsequently retired. All they were left with was Tony Gonzalez and Larry Johnson running behind an offensive line that was a shell of it's former greatness. That team was a collapse waiting to happen and everyone knew it. Herm was probably an average to below coach but saying that he took over good teams and left them in ruin is unfair.

4
by Vince Verhei :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 4:41pm

I still maintain that Herm would make an excellent college coach. His players have always admired him and stuck up for him, and followed him because they wanted to play for him. Parents would want their children to play for him. He'd have no trouble recruiting, and that seems like the most important part of a college coach's job.

14
by Junior :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 7:37pm

Yeah, but wait until he tries to sit on a 10-7 lead in the first half of every single game and the alumni and boosters would run him out of town on a rail after two seasons at most.

As a Chiefs fan, he's one coach that I truly hate. Trading a draft pick for this moron was beyond insanity. Anyone that hires him again will get what they deserve - a f'n clueless loser.

17
by Harris :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 9:14pm

You, sir, are clearly unfamiliar with red hot ACCtion.

30
by Duke :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:09am

If you're implying that a coach can't be successful and stay at a job if he makes obvious, avoidable mistakes on gameday I believe some LSU fans might be willing to convince you otherwise.

40
by Junior :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 12:59pm

No, I am implying that hiring Herm Edwards as a head coach would be the worst move than any team could make, and citing one of several examples of some of his fatal flaws.

35
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 9:52am

Yeah, but wait until he tries to sit on a 10-7 lead in the first half of every single game and the alumni and boosters would run him out of town on a rail after two seasons at most.

Frank Beamer has an exemplary record.

6
by Lance :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 5:19pm

I'm guessing that he's probably taken himself out of the running. Nowadays, with so many revenue streams for ex-head coaches via endorsements and "commentary" on TV and radio, the pay is quite nice. Sure, it may only be 20-25% of what an NFL coach makes, but your work is only about 10% as hard as an NFL coach. And if he's already got a nice nest egg (rather likely), and he's in his late 50's (fact) and the idea of 16-hour days for 9 months of the year doesn't just sound super awesome (somewhat likely), then I'd wager that he's told his agent that things like "speaking engagements," "ESPN stuff" and "beer endorsements" are OK, but things like "NFL head coaching jobs" are not.

3
by Travis :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 4:27pm

K: Doug Brien, 2003 Jets

I'd go with 2001 John Hall, who had a generally good year on field goals and kickoffs, and hit a 53-yarder against the Raiders to put the Jets into the playoffs.

10
by JetFanInMD (not verified) :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 6:04pm

I have to agree with this. Putting Doug Brien on Herm's all time team is just another dagger in the heart for this Jets fan. John Hall is a much better kicker for Herm's coaching style of trading negative offensive yards for time.

12
by dmstorm22 :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 6:46pm

The raiders did beat the jets the next week, but that had Hall missed the field goal the Raiders get a first round bye. Who knows what happens but I would assume the Raiders play a little bit better against the Patriots than they did in a blizzard.

22
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 10:12pm

Plus, John Hall also went to the Redskins!

5
by a57se (not verified) :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 4:49pm

Herm said "Play to Win" but he coached "Not to Lose".....big difference!

8
by Led :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 5:27pm

"Herm Edwards was a coordinator on Tony Dungy’s staff in Tampa Bay..."

Herm was never a coordinator. He was DB coach and "assistant head coach" with Tampa Bay. Other than this small nit, fun column!

11
by Michael LaRocca (not verified) :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 6:37pm

Just Win, Baby

13
by dmstorm22 :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 6:48pm

Whose next? Mike Holmgren seems like a logical choice.

18
by Duff Soviet Union :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 9:20pm

Holmgren would be pretty boring actually. It'd basically be the 1996 Packers plus Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. For older fans, how about Ted Marchibroda?

20
by dmstorm22 :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 9:43pm

Oh, I think you can have Shaun Alexander. Sterling Sharpe from one of the earlier seasons.

23
by theslothook :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 10:50pm

holmgren would be very interesting actually. Of course some areas are slam dunk but many others are open, like receivers, tight ends, defensive backs would all be up for grabs between the various squads.

57
by LionInAZ :: Fri, 07/27/2012 - 12:12am

Wayne Fontes. How could any coach compile such an inconsistent record, especially with Barry Sanders at RB?

16
by Mike Y :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 7:56pm

Bring on the Dick Jauron All-Stars!

24
by armchair journe... :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 11:10pm

Meh on Holmgren.

How 'bout a Dan Reeves?

There's a big pot of players to choose from.

//AJMQB

25
by armchair journe... :: Mon, 07/23/2012 - 11:21pm

In the spirit of this episode.. I also wouldn't mind assembling the greatest team that could be Norv'ed.

//AJMQB

28
by Guest789 :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 1:10am

Isn't "default" one word?

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

31
by Duke :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:12am
37
by wr (not verified) :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 10:33am

I can't believe the most important item on Herm's resume was left off:

Running back the Miracle In The Meadowlands fumble!!!

39
by CoachDave :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 11:46am

I'm very late to this party, but I've consistently said that Herm Edwards is one of the 10 worst Head Coaches in the modern football coaching era.

When you look his inability to flex his team's philosophy and scheme to match up successfully against opponent's tendencies and gameplan, IMO, he was flat out terrible.

And in terms of 2nd half adjustments, he was a disaster.

I love the guy and sure he's a great "rah, rah" guy, but in the Pros where that means little and scheme and gameplan mean more...I felt his teams were woefully underprepared consistently.

IMO, there is a reason why no one is even sniffing at him even though the "NFL coaching" bench is as thin as it's been in decades...

41
by Junior :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 1:03pm

Even if teams were beating down his door to hire him, he probably wouldn't make it to an interview on time. He'd rather drive his beaten down Taurus up the middle of the United States rather than taking a series of short flights or one long flight to the interview.

45
by theslothook :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:57pm

you sound like you're describing norv turner and he's now coached three different teams!

46
by tuluse :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:59pm

Norv Turner is tactically very sound, at least on offense.

Turner's main problem seems to be lack of discipline and doing the "little things" right.

49
by chemical burn :: Tue, 07/24/2012 - 4:45pm

Disregarding exactly how crappy of a coach he may or may not have been, what I think is weirdest about doing Herm for this series is that so few of these guys are "his" players in any meaningful way - it's just basically combining the Parcells and Vermeil lists. Like, you say "Curtis Martin, Will Shields and Tony Gonzalez" and how far from your mind is Herm Edwards? Even Santana Moss played, what 1 season with Edwards? Jared Allen and Ty Law - those players are saying something about Herm?

51
by Jason Mulgrew aka J Dawg aka Uncle Jase (not verified) :: Wed, 07/25/2012 - 1:23pm

Herman Edwards was not a good coach. Yeah, he had some players but most of the best ones where inherited from prior coaching staffs. Ya dig?

Enjoy the day brohans. Uncle Jase is heading on out.

52
by JonFrum :: Wed, 07/25/2012 - 7:06pm

There have been many terrible head coaches in the NFL - trust me, I'm an old Patriots fan. That being said, Herm was not terrible. What separates Herm from the mediocre pack is the occasional head-scratchers he pulled on the sidelines. With many coaches, they may not know what they're doing overall, but you don't see overt dumb-assery during the game - or at least you can't recognize it when you see it. Herm just seemed to lose his place on the sheet music occasionally. Which made him look worse than some guys who couldn't organize a circle-jerk.