Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

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» Impact of the NFL's Kickoff Rule Change

After three NFL seasons of kicking off from the 35-yard line, what has been the impact on touchbacks, returns, field position, scoring and injuries? Also, is this rule responsible for a record number of big comebacks?

01 Dec 2011

Walkthrough: Tales of the Topographic

by Mike Tanier

Jacksonville Jaguars Headquarters

MEL TUCKER: Good morning, gentlemen. It sure has been a week of upheaval, but our job as Jaguars coaches is to avoid distractions and get ready for the Chargers. So listen up...

DIRK KOETTER: No, you listen up! I’m the one that calls the shots around here!

TUCKER: What are you talking about?

KOETTER: I have been running this team for years. I have implanted a mind control chip in your brain. You cannot resist my will.

TUCKER: That is crazy. I ... zzzzzzaappp ... Gah! Don’t call a timeout in the final seconds! Run a stupid play at the goal line!

KOETTER: You see? Just like your predecessor, you have no free will! And I have implanted chips in coaches around the league. Observe!

TUCKER: Marty Morhinweg and Jim Washburn? What are you doing here?

MARTY MORNHINWEG: We have a ten-point lead and an All-Pro running back. Perhaps we should ... zzzzzzaappp ... Gah! Bomb to Riley Cooper! Bomb to Riley Cooper!

JIM WASHBURN: How did that son of a gun get to you? We had the whole Eagles defense protecting you. Oh yeah, right. Well, I will tackle you and rip it off myself ... zzzzzzaappp ... Gah! Agree with Juan Castillo! Agree with Juan Castillo!

KOETTER: You see, my device forces you to make the most ridiculous decision imaginable. I have guaranteed us a Monday night win by attaching one to our rival coach. Right, Norv?

NORV TURNER: I will run the ball three straight times to try to set up a career-long field goal by my journeyman kicker in overtime, giving the opposing folk-hero quarterback, who cannot actually throw, a short field to work with so he can win with zone-read handoffs.

TUCKER: I cannot help but notice that you did not push any buttons, there.

KOETTER: Yeah, with Norv it is more of a failsafe. But look at how it works on Raheem Morris!

RAHEEM MORRIS: zzzzzzaappp ... Gah! Spike the ball! ...zzzzzzaappp ... Spike it again! ... zzzzzzaappp ... Keep spiking!

TUCKER: I ... I cannot resist your will. All I can do is circumvent the system by giving public credit to you for your decisions. That must be what Jack Del Rio was doing. He wasn’t deflecting blame! He was trying to warn America!

KOETTER: And he was fired. Now it is too late. My plan reaches the highest levels of the NFL. Right, Mister Elway?

JOHN ELWAY: Maybe I should offer more support for my incredibly popular quarterback, build some good will from this unlikely winning streak, and try to set up some kind of long-range plan to wean him off this option offense and into something a little more viable ... zzzzzzaappp ... Gah! Backhanded criticism! Backhanded criticism!

TUCKER: Funny, I don’t remember our conference room having space for this many people.

KOETTER: My plan is coming to fruition! Elway and John Fox will be fired by the Broncos. I will be hired and have access to a great defense and the most beloved quarterback in the world! Morris becomes my defensive coordinator. LeSean McCoy gets frustrated with underuse in Philly and joins my Broncos. And no matter how stupid I make Norv, he will keep his job and I get two easy wins per year!

BOB COSTAS: Not so fast! You did not count on the vigilance of one of the most trusted sports reporters in the nation!

KOETTER: Yes I did. This mind control device has a "celebration" mode.

TUCKER: ... zzzzzzaappp ... Gah! I ... I’m only dancing. John?

JOHN ELWAY: I am also boogying.

BOB COSTAS: This is mesmerizing. I must tell society to stop watching the Kardashians and wasting their leisure time doing what they choose to do and instead listen to a short, middle-aged man as he conflates a moment of questionable taste into proof of society’s ills.

KOETTER: With Costas neutralized, nothing can stop me!

NICK NOVAK: Hey, Coach Norv. I hope I am not interrupting, but I pulled the car around back and grabbed the dry cleaning, and I just wanted to see if you guys needed anything. Why are you doing the Electric Slide? Did someone get married?

TUCKER: Stop Koetter, kicker boy! He has a mind control ... zzzzzzaappp ... cut the quarterback three days before the season opener!

MORNHINWEG: His power source is in that Gatorade cooler. Short it out by ... zzzzzzaappp ... Chad Hall is an all-purpose offensive threat!

TURNER: I have no advice to offer. Do as you please and all shall fall into line, or not.

NOVAK: Let’s see. They want me to short something out. Why don’t I kneel down beside this Gatorade cooler, reach into my pants, and ... pull out some wire cutters to snip a few connections.

TUCKER: I am free! I am free! The Jaguars and the NFL are saved!

COSTAS: Yes, Mel Tucker, and if all you peons in the audience can tear yourselves away from super-violent video games and mindless reality shows to listen to me, your intellectual and moral superior, for just a few minutes, there’s an important lesson to be learned here. It’s about lazy humor. Given the tone of the times, it is probably too much to expect a knucklehead blogger to be funny in the inventive style of Jack Benny or Eddie Cantor. Instead, we get this: a dull mash-up of the week’s events with a predictable setup, recycled jokes, potty humor, and lame broadsides at a broadcast legend in place of a finale. Worst of all, it traffics in the kind of meta-commentary that references itself as it goes, finally reaching an obnoxious moment when it is undercutting its own premise in the name of humor. Here’s an idea: why not write about what is actually going on in the games, instead of cramming a bunch of headlines into one thudding, obvious skit?

TUCKER: That is great advice, Mr. Costas.

TURNER: Okay, I’m confused. Should I send the field goal unit out now?

Setting the Edge

The table below shows the teams with the most holding penalties by wide receivers:

Wide Receiver Holding Penalties, 2011
Team WR Holding Penalties
Panthers 7
Bengals 4
Vikings 3
Raiders 2
Nine other teams 1

The count is not perfect. It does not include holds by tight ends or backs lined up at wide receiver. Special teams holds may be in the mix -– Courtney Roby has a holding penalty, for example, that may well have come on a kick return. Monday night’s numbers are not included, but since the Saints have one receiver hold (by Roby) and the Giants zero, I will not bother updating the numbers unless I see Victor Cruz dragging Jabari Greer around the field. I may have missed some third-string receiver somewhere. But you get the point: the Panthers have committed three or four teams worth of wide receiver holds in eleven games.

Steve Smith leads NFL receivers with four holds. Legedu Naanee is second with three. Wire-fighting expert Jerome Simpson of the Bengals and Michael Jenkins of the Vikings each have two. No other receiver has more than one. Smith and Naanee are clearly over-achieving.

So what is going on? First, Smith and Naanee are blocking. Hard. The Panthers rank first in the NFL in runs off right end and fourth off left end. Their offense incorporates a lot of lateral running: by the backs, by Cam Newton on designed runs, and by Smith on end-arounds. Naanee has a reputation as a blocking specialist, and he is living up to it. When receivers are constantly blocking in open space on outside runs, the chances that they will hold and get called for it go way up.

That said, the Panthers have come by most of these holds honestly. I went back and looked at all seven. A couple of Naanee’s were somewhat tacky. Against the Vikings, he blew up Brandon Burton, driving him from the slot to a point about 15 yards downfield before burying him. It was more of a pancake or a bulldoze than a hold, and I think Naanee drew the call because the block was so good it just drew attention to itself. On a Smith end-around against the Saints, Naanee motioned into a tight formation, controlled his cornerback at the point of attack, then performed a cut block as Smith raced past him for a significant gain. I did not see a clear hold, but the defender had a hard time escaping the block, so there was probably more going on than great positioning.

But then, there are Smith’s penalties. He held Chad Greenway on a critical fourth-quarter play against the Vikings, and while it was a fine effort by Smith, it was also an open-field hold. Smith tackled a defender in frustration on a screen pass during garbage time in the Titans game. He also bear-hugged a Lions cornerback on a sweep. Smith got called for a more questionable hold against the Colts, but again, it was a hold, albeit a subtle one, in the open field.

Ron Rivera has complained that the Panthers have not yet earned the benefit of the doubt with officials. It’s possible that he has a point: if the Panthers had a reputation as a great team, then Naanee’s borderline holds might be shrugged off as great plays. The tendencies of officials are out of Rivera and Rob Chudzinski’s hands. Their job is to keep the Panthers receivers blocking hard for the backs, Newton, and one another, while at the same time trying to cut down on penalties that almost always erase good plays. If Rivera wants the benefit of the doubt, he needs to stop Smith from tackling defenders.

The Stat Naughty List

From my Inbox:

I recently read an article on another site touting a new method for rating quarterbacks. It was called the Super Duper Rating or something. Unlike DVOA or ESPN’s Total Quarterback Rating, this new stat is based on the old efficiency rating, but souped up to include sacks and scrambling.

This new stat starts with basic quarterback numbers: attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions. But sacks and rushing attempts are added to attempts, rushing attempts are added to completions, rushing yardage is added to (and sack yards subtracted from) yards, rushing touchdowns are added to touchdowns, and fumbles are added to interceptions (I am not sure if that is fumbles lost or all fumbles). The new figures are then run through the old quarterback rating formula, with the 2.375 and all of that.

This new Super Duper Rating was offered as statistical evidence by a major media outlet that Tim Tebow is actually doing an excellent job at quarterback. I don’t want to debate about Tebow, though. I am just wondering if this stat has any merit, because I get the impression it is all mumbo jumbo. I would love your thoughts. Thanks!

No problem!

Regular readers know that I don’t have a major problem with the NFL passer efficiency rating. It can be useful at times. The major flaw it has, other than being over-engineered, is that it was designed to consider 1970-era passing statistics "average." That causes a big problem when it comes to completion percentage, a ratio whose "average" value has gone up about 20 percent in 40 years. Completion percentage is another stat that gets undue criticism by some analysts. It has some value as an evaluative tool, but not when you consistently mistake today’s 60-percent "average" quarterback as being a better player than a late 1960s sharpshooter.

Completion percentage operates in its own little wilderness in the formula. A quarterback who goes 10-of-20 for 120 yards, no touchdowns, and no interceptions, earns a 68.8 rating. Crank the completions up to 12 (60 percent) without changing anything else, and his rating jumps to 77.1. Kick it up to 14 completions (70 percent) and the rating reaches 85.4. It’s certainly arguable that the 14 completion game was better than the 10 completion game, because the quarterback’s six yards per attempt were more evenly distributed. But those eight-point jumps in rating are operating independently of actual production.

The system thresholds at 80 percent, or 16 completions, with a rating of 91.6, which would rank eighth in the NFL right now if the numbers were projected to a full season. A quarterback who completes 80 percent of his passes, despite averaging only 7.5 yards per completion, would probably be a valuable asset. But again, these completion percentage bonuses operate totally independently of the yardage, in their own little play land.

Now, let’s look at the Super Duper Stat. I like the idea of calling sacks passing attempts and sack yardage lost passing yardage. I can live with the idea of adding fumbles to interceptions, assuming that someone took the time to remove aborted snaps and other events that have little to do with a quarterback’s true performance. And combining rushing stats with passing stats is laudable in theory.

But there is a huge problem, which I bet has readers are screaming at their monitors right now: The Super Duper Stat adds rushing attempts to pass attempts. And it adds rushing attempts to pass completions. So every time a quarterback runs, the system treats it like a completed pass.

And completion percentage is the one stat that the old efficiency rating grossly over-rewards.

The distortions caused by a non-running quarterback are minor. The distortions caused by an Aaron Rodgers or Michael Vick will be somewhat greater, but even seven or eight carries per game are going to be drowned out by 35 passes, and a little boost to Rodgers’ or Vick’s stats for running prowess gibes with common sense.

But then, along comes a quarterback who passes 18 times and runs 22 times in a game. The quarterback’s 9-of-18 completion rate does not move the needle on old efficiency rate, which considered 50 percent "average." But give that quarterback 22 more "completions," and efficiency rating does a happy dance at the site of a 77.5 "completion percentage." It starts assigning value that has nothing to do with actual yardage gained.

That last point is the one that needs to be hammered home, because heaven knows I have gotten enough Tebow hate mail. This system is not awarding points for rushing well. It is awarding points for rushing, period. For illustration’s sake, let’s go back to the Jets game, because the old efficiency rating was happy with Tebow’s numbers against the Chargers. A 9-of-20, 104-yard, no goodies stat line earns a 61.2 by the old rating. Let’s add eight rushing attempts to the mix, but with a catch: instead of adding Tebow’s 68 real yards, let’s give him 24 yards and no touchdowns on those carries. This is not a fourth-quarter hero, but any old quarterback who averages a measly three yards per rush but happened to run about 40 percent as often as he threw.

By the Super Duper formula, this quarterback’s rating goes up to 71.7. A ten-point jump! Not because of epic scrambling ability, but simply because of eight carries.

Let’s really test the parameters. Let’s make a quarterback go 0-for-4 passing, but carry the ball 16 times for 32 yards. The Super Duper rating? An impressive 79.6.

These distortions would only be obvious in an extreme case like Tebow, but they are prevalent throughout the system and create a distinct advantage for rushing quarterbacks. Quarterbacks on winning teams who get to kneel two or three times per game would also be overvalued, because unless the designers of this stat eliminate kneel plays, they get to boost their completion percentages. Because extra carries tend to lower yards per attempt and touchdown percentages, the effects sometimes come out in the wash. But those extra carries can also lower interception rates, causing the Super Duper Ratings to slide off of the old efficiency rating for reasons that have nothing to do with anything. It’s an incredible source of statistical noise that makes a bad situation worse when using an already out-of-date metric.

Can quarterback rushing statistics be added to passing statistics? I would not recommend doing it with a tool that was specifically designed to reward passing and was developed by Nixon-era actuaries. If I absolutely had to soup up efficiency rating with rushing stats, I can think of two ways to try it. First, I might only include scrambles, which are clearly marked in the play-by-play and can be teased out of the raw rushes with a little effort. That takes care of kneels and sneaks and limits the quarterback’s passing evaluation to things that actually happened when he tried to pass. Secondly, I might consider limiting "completions" to first downs gained while scrambling. It’s a jerry-rig, but it provides an almost workable solution to the problem of calling every attempt to run a "completion."

Both of the solutions described above require extra work that goes beyond grabbing raw numbers off Pro Football Reference or NFL.com and slamming them into Excel. The designers of this Super Duper Stat, unlike us or the ESPN Total QBR guys, have apparently declined to do that, opting instead to repackage the low-lying fruit in a new box. That leads me to my final thought, not about the value of this goofy stat itself (nothing, as it has nothing that the old rating does not offer), but about the quality of the reasoning behind it.

I have tinkered with many failed statistical ideas over the years, and Football Outsiders has piloted, adjusted, fiddled with, and a few times thrown out whole models and methods. A statistical method can look good in the spreadsheet and spit out hundreds of encouraging results before revealing some terrible flaw. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, for having to do a headslap and an apology, or with pointing to some anomalous result and saying "this is odd, and it may be a sign of a bigger problem, but it’s the best result we can currently provide."

But there is a major problem with taking a strange, anomalous result, ignoring all warning signs, and trumpeting it as some hidden truth in the name of making money on an article because it happens to say what you want it to say about a currently popular player.

The problems with this method are glaringly obvious to anyone who has ever worked with the old efficiency rating, and I find it impossible to believe that the designers didn’t see red flags when they were setting up their spreadsheets. If they calculated completion percentage in a separate cell, as most of us would, they saw completion rates shooting up from 50 to 77.5 and 45 to 60.7 (the Jets game). They must have noticed that these changes were extreme, that they affected one player more than others, and that they represented essentially zero value added to the quarterback’s performance (remember, the yards themselves are separate). They could have realized the obvious flaw in their method, or at least said something to the effect that "Tebow is blowing up our system." Instead, they spun this critical conceptual error into "Only our stats can see how well Tebow is doing, but yours can’t."

That was lazy, irresponsible, dishonest, and frankly embarrassing to my entire profession.

The best thing I can say about this Super Duper rating is that whoever designed it could not be any more backward in their thinking. They took an ancient statistic and tried to put fins on it. We have been using play-by-play for eight years, and we now have a database going back another decade before that. The Total QBR guys are working with play-by-play and charting. There are other sites using variations on charting. I don’t agree with a lot of their results, and I compete head-to-head with them for cash money at times, but I have to respect that their digging may yield different, perhaps more interesting information than our digging on occasion. Data like third-down splits is not hard to find if you want to create your own Triple Deluxe Efficiency Rating by awarding a third-down bonus or something.

The future lies in more granular data, whether it is separating out yards after catch, differentiating passes by type, or going to the game tape with a compass and protractor and figuring accuracy down to inches (a bad idea, but an example of what’s possible). Grabbing stats off the back of a football card and twiddling with them is not amateurish, because amateurism implies effort and love. It’s just weak and juvenile. And I am guessing this Super Duper Rating will disappear once it starts spitting out results its designers don’t like or cannot profit from.

Like Family

I am appearing at The Field House in Center City Philadelphia on Thursday night for the Eagles-Seahawks game. Lest you think that it will be nothing but me screaming for three-and-a-half hours, this essay explains my complex relationship with the only team I ever truly loved.

I don’t really hate the Eagles. We are just going through some problems in our relationship right now.

I have been accused of Eagles negativity on Twitter, on the message boards, and even in our inter-office emails. Considering the vitriolic commentary that accompanies the Eagles even on playoff runs, I must be getting pretty extreme to stand out from the crowd. But familiarity breeds contempt, as the saying goes. Like the old guy at the water cooler who grouses nonstop about the wife he could not possibly live without, I have grown so used to the Eagles’ quirks, ticks, and shortcomings that I must remind myself to see the good in them, even in the best of times. And these are not the best of times.

My point is best illustrated by a long, rambling story.

Over the Thanksgiving weekend, I took my sons to see The Muppets (awesome!), then sat down for a few minutes with my birthday gift: Batman: Arkham City for Xbox 360. The boys sat to watch me play, with Mikey sent away at the first of many, many obscenities. C.J. has heard such language -– he is in third grade, after all -– and I allowed him to stay, though I closed the door to make sure my wife did not hear him hearing such language. I needed him to get me through some of the levels that require the kind of twitchy button mashing skills it was impossible to develop in the Atari era. I also get motion sick playing first person games, so C.J. is often in charge of walking through corridors and finding things.

Batman’s morality is starting to trouble me now that I have to explain his actions to a nine-year-old. He does not kill, which seems laudable until you think about what he does do. He delivers the kind of beatings that can result in internal bleeding or broken limbs, then leaves perpetrators defenseless on the streets of Gotham, a city of about four million people with one competent cop. I am sure none of the goons he beats up have health insurance -– perhaps Harvey Dent flips a coin and insures them if it comes up "heads," making him 50 percent more generous than many employers -– and The Joker is not the kind of guy to set up an infirmary or drop his henchmen off in the ER.

So Batman, with his sanctity for human life, leaves criminals to go into shock in the gutter, then get punished for their efforts by some psychotic crime lord. C.J. and I also watched some Indiana Jones this weekend, and Indy isn’t above offing the occasional bad guy in self defense. Not just Nazis, either, but tribesmen and the like. Given the choice of getting shot by Indy or left to suffer after having an arm broken and spleen ruptured by Batman, I know which one I would choose.

Anyway, Batman wasn’t beating up anyone with me controlling him, because I could not figure out the controls. Bats got beaten up badly by a couple of guys with baseball bats, the greatest superhero in the world pummeled by the middle of the Texas Rangers lineup. I kept mixing up the Strike button with the Pose Menacingly button, a problem Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie shares. Later, there was a labyrinth of corridors, which I followed until I literally threw up. It was not Batman’s finest hour, as he stood repeating the same prompt over and over while I retched nearby.

C.J. was better at dispatching goons, but C.J. has the childish habit of button-mashing through cut scenes, because kid time is too valuable to waste on advancing the plot. So Kevin Conroy would intone "Now that I have found this new gadget, I can open locked doors. All I have to do to use it is..." mash, mash, mash, and we would be left groping along some warehouse until I got the heaves again.

But I did not get angry at my son, even as he knocked on the bathroom door while I was heaving to say that he learned how to fire batarangs and leveled up my character. That is not what this story is about.

C.J. eventually went to bed, and my wife and I curled up on the couch and realized that we don’t watch any television shows regularly anymore. So we ended up watching the 2009 Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame Anniversary Concert on Palladia, a station that shows nothing but an Iron Maiden documentary and lots of promos involving a butterfly. I try to catch the Rock ‘n’ Roll HoF induction ceremonies when they are televised, because they are a hoot. Old R&B performers stumble through their past hits with someone like Fergie horning in to gain some credibility. Rock dinosaurs pretending they like each other. Uninspired renditions of songs that changed the world by artists who long ago moved past the stage in life when the songs mattered to them. And, of course, the kinds of teamups that cause brain pain: Nelly and Robbie Robertson, Booker T. and the MGs and Armored Saint, C-Lo Green and Crowded House joining Tom Waits to perform "He Ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother."

The anniversary concert was every bit as good as an induction ceremony, with a senseless Sting-Stevie Wonder teamup and Metallica bringing both Lou Reed and Ray Davies on stage after aiming straight for the middle of the diverse audience by starting with "For Whom the Bell Tolls." Then, a very bored-looking U2 appeared, slogged through "Vertigo," and invited Bruce Springsteen on stage.

Now, I am a huge fan of both U2 and Springsteen. I have even followed them through the long third acts of their careers, buying albums as their respective relevance unraveled. I liked Springsteen’s Magic and U2’s No Line on the Horizon even though those albums were nothing compared to the best work by either performer. So I should have been delighted when they took the stage, with South Jersey’s own Patti Smith in tow, no less.

Instead, I thought oh no, here it comes.

Smith’s presence made "Because the Night" obligatory, and it was another perfunctory rendition of a song Springsteen often drags out in concert. Smith was then sent away, lest she perform one of her challenging, interesting songs. Springsteen hung around. "You know, once he takes the stage, he doesn’t leave," my wife said, and as a veteran view of HoF inductions, I knew she was right. Springsteen inserts himself everywhere, trying to perform with everybody. For all of his achievements, the world did not need his version of "London Calling." Everything Springsteen performs becomes Springsteenized, robbed of any lilt and replaced with the gravel voice and jackhammer guitar.

Meanwhile. Bono feels the need to explain everything, because he is deeper than all of us put together. Springsteen used to be an explainer, too, and old concert bootlegs are filled with 10 minute spoken word interludes for songs like "Independence Day," which had a pretty freakin’ obvious message in the first place. Bono reached the nadir of explanation around Rattle and Hum, which was ten minutes of music discussed on stage for an hour-and-a-half. Bono has eased back, like Springsteen, but not nearly enough, and he decided to help us decode one of his trickier songs by explaining that it is about a spiritual journey. The song? "Still haven’t Found What I’m Looking For." Bet you puzzled over the meaning of that one for years, right?

So there they were, two of my favorite performers, two legends of contemporary music, being completely non-entertaining as they indulged their worst instincts. But I could not turn away, because I am a Springsteen and U2 fan. I kept waiting for it to get better. Maybe they would rip into some song I don’t expect or do something truly magical. I felt obligated to watch and feel exasperated.

And that is how I feel about the Eagles. I am stuck watching them. I know their foibles. I have a hard time getting excited about a Giants win sandwiched between two ugly losses. I was optimistic, to a fault, through an entire era, and now I am stuck supporting a lame facsimile of a system that worked much better long ago. It’s like listening to Working on a Dream, except that the Eagles never quite produced a seminal Darkness on the Edge of Town under Andy Reid. And yet, I have articles to write and a book to promote, so I have to keep watching.

So the negativity is inevitable, and I plan for this to be the last Eagles-centric Walkthrough of the season, because they are no longer relevant to a national audience. Thursday’s appearance at The Field House will be my last Eagles game for a while, because my professional time is better spent on the Ravens or Steelers. It is not a divorce, or even a trial separation. It’s a working vacation, a chance to get a little space. I hope to come back reinvigorated.

Now, off to confront the Joker, then enjoy some ginger ale and crackers.

Posted by: Mike Tanier on 01 Dec 2011

86 comments, Last at 05 Dec 2011, 11:12am by Noah of Arkadia

Comments

1
by Kevin from Philly :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 11:54am

You know, I wasn't going to come to the Field House, as it's a long ride with a load on. After this Walkthrough, though, I might have to. The idea of a drunk Tanier watching TV and blurting out "Let me tell YOU somethin' Andy..." is too intriguing.

2
by BroncFan07 :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:12pm

The scary part about this is, if I remember right, Koetter was being considered for some sort of coaching job with Denver before Fox got hired. And Mike, sadly I suffer from the same affliction as you when it comes to FPS's. I tried playing Arkham Asylum because it seemed like a really good game but just couldn't make it through the parts where Batman has to crawl through tiny spaces.

3
by zlionsfan :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:23pm

I don't blame C.J. for skipping through cut scenes. Some games have scenes that contribute to the plot or are otherwise interesting, but too many of them are just wasted time and wasted disc space. Some are annoying just because they break up the flow of the game; others are bad because they show events that didn't actually happen. (The big boss' health meter is almost out, so you shoot him again, and your reward is a cut scene where he's dying at your feet, contemptuous to the end, and you put him out of his misery with a bullet to the brain. Uh-uh. This guy killed my best friend: I blew off his legs and let him bleed to death.)

The Dragon Age games, I think, have some good cut scenes. Mass Effect as well. Some of the Saints Row games have entertaining cut scenes ... but then you're getting into content that isn't really meaningful to younger kids, so you might have to get through those games on your own.

P.S. Don't make excuses for your lack of button-mashing skills. I'm 44 and I can play the Batman games just fine. You just didn't train on the right games when you were growing up. (Track and Field? No pencils, please.)

6
by Mike Tanier :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:41pm

Yeah...but these scenes have Kevin Conroy as Batman and Mark Hamill as the Joker and are dense with plot points. They are like watching a good Justice League cartoon. You are right, though, that he gets it from kiddie games that have long cut scenes that waste a lot of time.

And it was exactly those crawling sequences that got to me.

8
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:45pm

There's an article in Grantland about this very subject, specifically Skyrim. It's why I stopped playing RPGs.

I love Valve's storytelling philosophy - "let's get out of the way."

33
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:46pm

I forget what game it was, but it had an egregious example of the inappropriate cutscene. I think it was GTA4. Either the boat shootout or the last chase.

Admittedly, we were using codes to acquire weapons not supported in the mainstream plot at that point, and have always been big fans of overkill. (You can land on the roof of a four-story building if you fire a rocket launcher at your shoes in GTA3...)

Anyway, after bazookaing a boss in a small area (literally misting everything in the room), you proceed to a cutscene where a mildly injured boss is given the coup de grace by a hand-gun. That always seemed so... small. The hilarious part is that immediately afterward, the background passersby pay absolutely no heed, despite murdering someone in public by firing an anti-vehicle weapon at them!

80
by BroncFan07 :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 11:20am

A Track N Field reference! Obviously you are old enough to remember Decathlon for Atari. It was the ultimate in joystick mashing. Game controllers, I mean.

4
by Drunkmonkey :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:37pm

Secondly, I might consider limiting "completions" to first downs gained while scrambling. It’s a jerry-rig, but it provides an almost workable solution to the problem of calling every attempt to run a "completion."

What about only including runs that are considered successful? Would that make any more sense?

27
by tuluse :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:05pm

I think he was trying to keep things easier, but that does seem like a solution as well.

31
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:36pm

As far as easier goes, I always wondered whether removing completion percentage from the rating would improve it any. a state that combines all attempts, yardage gained and lost, and scores and turnovers would probably be useful, and it remove at a stroke the dubious double-counting of completion percentage, and this insane rush=completion bonus.

47
by Thunderbolt of ... :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:46pm

That's basically what AY/A does - it's on every player's pro-football-reference.com page. The metric starts with yards per attempt including sacks and sack yardage, then adds a 10-yard bonus for every TD and a 45-yard penalty for every interception. Personally, I think it's the most accurate gauge of QB quality that only uses numbers that can be gleaned from the final box score.

52
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:53pm

It now uses 20 yards per TD.

72
by Shattenjager :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 10:43pm

AY/A doesn't include sacks. ANY/A does.

5
by Led :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:37pm

I loved how the Super Duper Rating section proceeded as a clear, albeit wonky, discussion of the stat and its flaws for about two thirds of the way and then -- KABLAM -- exploded with seething contempt at the end. Well done.

7
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:44pm

I actually thought that the Arkham games had the best combat system since the newest Ninja Gaiden games, and much more user-friendly. NG, for all its subtleties and complexity, is Nintendo hard. With Arkham, once you learn to slow down and only attack or counter as needed, it becomes very smooth and intuitive.

9
by John (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:46pm

Tales of Tanier, an epic quasi-biography. That book I would buy in a heartbeat.

Mike, have you considered taking over for Garrison Keillor when he retires? Can you sing and do small talk well while making sure the show doesn't go into overtime?

35
by JPS (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:48pm

I have been wondering if anyone could possibly follow Garrison Keillor, and you may have just struck a vein of gold with this suggestion.

40
by John (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:11pm

I'm honestly not sure whether I want the show to continue, even if a suitable successor could be found. It's a piece of Americana I'd hate to see end, but the show and the man seem inextricably linked.

I hope when he retires there's some way to purchase all extant episodes for something short of a house mortgage payment. Might even be worth more than that.

73
by Whatev :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:21am

The problem is that it'd have to be someone FROM Minnesota (and furthermore from the same figurative place "in Minnesota"). It's just like how ridiculous sailing stories don't work unless they're told to you by someone who looks like the Gorton's Fisherman.

76
by John (not verified) :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 9:12am

I'm not so sure. I could see the program pivot for someone like Roy Blount Jr, have him tell stories of the south. The "Prairie" would no longer be valid, admittedly.

Folk/country/bluegrass musicians would still give their eyeteeth to be on the show.

Despite its rich heritage, California wouldn't fit the heartland motif at all, and Yankee Home Companion is right out.

10
by rengewnad (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:47pm

finally, i have some evidence that I'm not the only one who can be made sick by a video game. Maybe this will help me earn some respect back from my wife after she saw me stumbling up the stairs to zonk out in bed early after trying out minesweeper for an hour.

Me: "ooooaaaaahhhhhh, i feel sick. i need to go to bed" (stumble-stumble-groan)
Wife: "... and the dishes....???"
Me: "sorry, i'll get them tomorrow, i can't stand up"
Wife: "you just played a video game for an hour and now can't stand up?"
Me: "It's a game about building things with blocks, the graphics are horrible and make you dizzy. everyone says it's great, I thought i'd try it out."
Wife: "just stop talking. there's nothing you can say that will gain any of my respect back after saying you got sick enough to stick me with the dirty dishes after playing with blocks for an hour".
Me: "I hate that #@!*&#^ game"

11
by rengewnad (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:49pm

so... (Doh!) minesweeper = minecraft in the post above. move along.

22
by nat :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:42pm

One of the benefits of registering is that you can go back and edit mistakes - if you do it quickly, as I will now demonstrate. (That was actually posted as 'quirkly') I doubt anyone noticed before I edited it.

28
by tuluse :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:07pm

I've heard that it's fairly common for people to get motion sick from 3D graphics. It happens to my mom. Never happened to me luckily.

I do wonder if this is some kind of skill you can learn or if it's innate or something.

36
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:49pm

Varies wildly from person to person.

I just don't get motion sick. I can read a book while on a roller-coaster after eating a chili dog, while dehydrated on a 95-degree day, and feel fine, nausea-wise.

That said, even Descent started bugging me, although that was primarily because I always got ridiculously lost in that damn game. It was like being the Alien in Aliens vs. Predator, but worse.

41
by John (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:13pm

It also varies with age. I tried a tire swing about 10 years ago, and spent the better part of a half hour recovering, trying not to be physically ill. That never would have happened when I was a kid.

54
by akn :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 4:02pm

The motion sickness caused by video games is similar to other types of motion sickness (mismatch between visual and inner ear sensory input), but there are some subtle differences. The nausea in video game sickness (simulation sickness) is actually thought to be the brain's attempt to purge what it believes is a hallucinatory poison from your system. Some studies have up to 50% of people experiencing symptoms depending on conditions.

Simulation sickness is magnified by increasing mismatch between the visual/auditory and the vesibular. You can mitigate it in several ways.

1) Stop playing games in your man cave with the 100 inch screen and 7.1 surround sound.

2) Regular naps

3) Chew on something while playing (gum)

4) You know those noobs who make ridiculous gestures while playing games (a jumping motion with the controller when trying to jump, etc)? That actually mitigates the sensory mismatch. Standing up may also help in this way.

55
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 4:09pm

There's a psychological component as well.

Helicopter sims are an interesting one.

Noobs do fairly well in them.
Experienced helicopter pilots tend to get mildly queasy.
Experienced airplane pilots regularly get violently ill.

It's an expectation thing. A noob pilot has no idea what to expect from the sim or from a real helicopter, so the odd visuals and lack of vestibular feedback are all part of the novelty of the experience, and become thought of as "normal".

An experienced helicopter pilot is put-off by the lack of physical feedback, which is weird in an otherwise normal situation.

An experienced airplane pilot is totally disoriented. not only is the lack of vestibular feedback weird, helicopters handle totally differently from what's expected in a plane, so literally everything in the situation is bizarre. Then you puke. Which, while also bizarre, is at least sensorily normal.

This makes me wonder how often Tanier is dressing up as Batman and crawling through tight corridors.

58
by tuluse :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 4:32pm

"This makes me wonder how often Tanier is dressing up as Batman and crawling through tight corridors."

He has yet to replace Andy Reid's short yardage play calls with runs up the gut and Vick play action bootlegs so my guess is every night.

61
by Concussed Player (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 5:14pm

I'm Batman

57
by tuluse :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 4:30pm

That's some cool information. It makes a lot more sense to me why I always end up with the controller in the next seat when trying to make a hard turn in a racing game.

60
by Dr. Mal du Mer (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 5:12pm

Tanier, thank you so much for coming out as someone whom first-person-perspective games make sick. I thought I was alone in the world -- and violence has nothing to do with it for me. "Katamari Damacy -- great game, for the ten minutes I can stand it..."

12
by Dean :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:52pm

The stats part was great. I actually scrolled up to make sure I hadn't missed Aaron making a guest appearance in your column. An unexpected, but extremely well done, break from the humor.

On the other hand, my eyes glaze over reading about video games. It's like having to listen to someone brag about their fantasy footbal team. So I scrolled forward only to find U2, who was obnoxious at any stage in their careers, and Springsteen, who hasn't been interesting in a couple decades. Well, it made for a much shorter read than most.

The middle section was great at least. And all the better because it was such an unexpected stylistic change from the usual column.

13
by DGL :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:58pm

Adding running plays to completions in QB Rating is like having a fantasy football league that awards points per rushing attempt.

14
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:03pm

I was in one of those a few years ago. It also awarded 10 points per yard on kick returns. Tab Perry (Cincinatti) and Dante Hall were key players in my championship winning team. Scores would routinely pass 200, and we weren't even using IDP. It was madness.

17
by Drunkmonkey :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:20pm

Wait... 10 points per yard, or 1 point per 10 yards? I mean, Devin Hester alone could get you 600 points per game, only averaging 30 yards on 2 kick returns.

20
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:25pm

You're right, I mistyped. 1 point per 10 yards. Still madness though.

21
by Drunkmonkey :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:29pm

Yeah, that would still be madness, but that completely blew my mind, because there was no way Perry or Hall only averaged about 10 yards a return that year. How else would you only have scores in the 200 range?

62
by Mr. Guest to you (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 5:33pm

I was in a league for 3 years that not only awarded for return yardage but also tackles. Most valuable players wound up being WR or DB who returned both punts and kicks. Terrence McGee was an absolute monster.

77
by DaveZ (not verified) :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 9:31am

I'm in a league now that counts rushing attempts, catches, solo tackles, assisted tackles, et al...the thing is, the scores are low (if you score 60 a game you'll win more often than not) because you don't get full value for TDs unless they are LONG plays. A 1 yard TD run is worth only 4 points. Think a TD has be 75 yards plus to actually get 6 or 7 points for it...short field goals are only 2 points. I know it's all relative but I hate it.

84
by Zatchlas (not verified) :: Sat, 12/03/2011 - 5:44am

I played in a league last year that I joined at the last minute on ESPN. What I think was supposed to happen was that you got 1 point for every 25 return yards, but somebody had clearly typed in the stats wrong, as we ended up getting 25 points for every 1 return yard. Scores into the high thousands were not unusual.

15
by Salur (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:05pm

If anyone cares, I suspect (obviously cannot be sure, it wasn't my question) that the Super Duper Rating referred to is this one:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/11/29/tim.tebo...

I'm not that familiar with Cold Hard Football Facts, mostly since what little I have seen is...questionable, but I could be wrong about the quality.

I could also be wrong that this is the article in question, of course.

16
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:19pm

I'm not that familiar with Cold Hard Football Facts, mostly since what little I have seen is...questionable, but I could be wrong about the quality.

The words Obnoxious Blowhards and Blind Squirrels come to mind. Generally speaking they're the worst kind of blind squirrels though, who on the rare occasions they find a nut feel the need to shout loudly about how their nut is better than any other nut, their nut is the only true nut, and everybody else's nuts are clearly inferior.

18
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:23pm

Back when I read the Atlantic regularly, I regularly implored Ta-Nehisi Coates via e-mail to make the switch from CHFF to FO. I don't know if he ever did.

25
by Nate Jones (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:02pm

TNC has Aaron guest-post sometimes, so I think the switch has been made.

32
by Stats are for losers (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:41pm

CHFF reads like it was written by a semi-literate 12-year-old with a Tom Brady fathead on his wall.

30
by Birdman84 (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:35pm

My first thought when hearing about the Super Duper Stat was: "that sounds like CHFF." I used to read them years ago but increased exposure to FO has fortunately broken me of that habit.

74
by Whatev :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:40am

So what they're saying is that they have the biggest nuts?

29
by paytonrules :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:28pm

I actually found the self-congratulatory nature of the article so off-putting I just assumed they were wrong.

It reads like one of those "Make a million dollars in real estate today!" ads.

34
by Eddo :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:48pm

Wait, it was CHFF that designed the Super Duper Rating? Of course, that should have been obvious.

I feel like they're actively setting back statistical analysis of football decades.

EDIT: CHFF articles always strike me as having their conclusion written first, then having some data manipulated until it supports said conclusion. It's infuriating to read.

37
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:53pm

You think FO doesn't do that? Why do you think DVOA loves the Eagles so much?

\We see you, Tanier.

43
by Mike Tanier :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:28pm

LOL. If I actually tried to calculate DVOA myself, I would burn down the Internet. I look at all of the pretty numbers on the sides of our many spreadsheets, but I never touch them :)

39
by Southern Philly :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:01pm

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, to see that Kerry Byrne wrote something stupid and arrogant.

67
by Dave :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 7:13pm

Yep.

While I enjoyed reading it, I was a little bit surprised to see that much effort put into refuting a Byrne piece. No amount of valid research or data can ever change that guy's mind. Talking to brick walls is more productive.

42
by Stats are for losers (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:23pm

I tried to read that article, but couldn't make it through the intro.

But skimming farther down the page, it turns out that there's a CHFF Insider, where you can actually pay to read more of that insipid nonsense!

49
by Matt Bowyer :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:49pm

I am so happy this Walkthrough happened. I have been RAILING about CHFF on another forum.

50
by Dean :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:49pm

I suspect that CHFF probably has a better business model. Strike that, a more mainstream business model. Their target audience overlaps ESPNs better than FOs does, in they seem to deliberately cater to the sort of folks who actually LIKE watching programming which features grown men yelling at each other.

Like most, it seems, I checked them out once. I thougt that their ideas might have merit, but the volume of the rhetoric was so shrill that I didn't bother digging deeper to see if there was actually any substance there. That was years ago, and I haven't ever really felt the urge to go back.

75
by David :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 6:33am

Agreed - I'm torn between pity and admiration for their rhetorical nature

Admiration - for hitting a marketable tone that draws in readers and hits, but pity, that they don't have the courage of their convictions to write for adults

63
by Mr. Guest to you (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 5:35pm

I knew it was Byrne's model once I read this: "The best thing I can say about this Super Duper rating is that whoever designed it could not be any more backward in their thinking"

19
by Hurt Bones :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:24pm

Love a Bowie reference. Though in context it brings to mind a strange Elway, Tucker, Costas dynamic that I really don't want to dwell on.

64
by TomC :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 6:09pm

Which one's Angie and which one's Mick?

68
by Hurt Bones :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 7:37pm

You mean who is the bitter, cynical, tell all ex-wife and who is the faded over the hill star sex symbol? That's pretty easy. What I can't get around is imagining Mel Tucker singing "She had an horror of rooms she was tired you can't hide beat…".

23
by CathyW :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:46pm

This Eagles season reminds me of watching a marriage in its death throes - you're hoping that somehow, things will still work out, but in your heart, you know that's just not going to happen and divorce is the inevitable result. It's time for Jeff Lurie to make that call to the lawyer, file the papers, and put this thing out of its misery. :(

38
by Kevin from Philly :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:01pm

Who gets custody of Juan Castillo?

24
by Southern Philly :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 1:57pm

Raheem Morris doesn't need the mind control chip to make bad decisions.

26
by Arkaein :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 2:04pm

I think there's room for simple, yet improved statistics. Despite the qualities of DYAR/DVOA, more people are aware of and still use passer rating, and passer rating leaves a lot of room for improvement even without getting ino more granular data.

A better starting point though, is PFR's ANY/A. This is already much better than passer rating in that it includes sacks, properly emphasizes TPA over completion percentage, and reduces the importance of TDs while increasing the importance of INTs. However, I think it could be improved a bit.

First, a simple way to incorporate a success rate like measure would be to give a small bonus to pass attempts that result in first downs, while giving a small penalty to attempts that don't get a first down (or TD). That way a 3 yard completion on 3rd and 2 can be more properly valued against a 7 yard completion on 3rd and 10. This would require some fairly trivial use of play-by-play over just the raw stats currently incorporated in ANY/A (unless per-player passing first downs are recorded in some available box scores).

Second, some incorporation of rushing stats would be valuable. Probably just count every rush as an attempt, just like every pass is counted as an attempt, and combine rushing and passing yardage, which would allow for all gains to be valued equally, regardless of whether it is by rushing or passing.

Third, defensive adjustments could easily be calculated by calculating this metric for defenses, and then calculating the difference between a QBs score in one game against the defense's score for the full season. A positive value would be an above average performance, while a negative value would be below average.

The end result would be something like a passing DVOA-lite, and by determining a replacement level, calculating the difference from this level, and multiplying by attempts could give a passing DYAR-lite. These stats would not provide quite as much value as DVOA/DYAR, but would be easier to calculate and more transparent while still being far superior to passer rating.

48
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:48pm

Do you have a blog or something where you could give that a trial run? It sounds like it could be interesting to play around with.

I think PFR might have first downs passing in their box scores, which should simplify matters for games with teams where only person attempted a pass.

On a not-entirely-unrelated note, does anywhere list the average gains on particular down-and-distance situations league-wide?

66
by Arkaein :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 6:12pm

I don't currently have any sort of blog or actual concrete work done on this, but it's something that's been kicking around in my brain since ESPN's QBR metric was announced. Maybe I'll look at it in the off season. Or maybe I'll just bug the guys at PFR, since ANY/A is already so close to what I'm thinking.

One other thing I forgot to mention was incorporating fumbles. Since fumble recoveries tend to be random, the simplest way is probably just to incorporate fumbles with about half the penalty that interceptions use. Even though Mike Tanier indicated that a metric that doesn't filter out things like aborted snaps is flawed, I think that including all fumbles would be better overall than not including them at all.

44
by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:35pm

Maybe giing to reaf this on friday .ite. going to do some beavy drinking anf will twitt too. Will say to Tanjer tbat if drink shot everytimr a. reid look lost on sidelinr thrn will get verry drunk tonite

45
by dryheat :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:43pm

Wait for my Super-Super-Duper Stat, where I count successful handoffs to RBs, successfully executed shotgun snaps, successfully called time outs, and on-field prayers as completed passes....

53
by tuluse :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:59pm

There is a kind of delicious irony in creating a stat which thinks that Tebow is the most accurate passer in the league.

46
by mm (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:44pm

"the streets of Gotham, a city of about four million people with one competent cop."

A good joke, but I can't let it pass without recommending that anyone who's interested in Batman check their library or bookstore for collections of the comic book "Gotham Central". I don't read many comics any more, but this series that focused on the cops in that city was great.

51
by John (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 3:53pm

Thanks for the recommendation. I read the first issue on my iPad, and thought it was interesting but didn't find it enough to pursue further. Will try again.

56
by Smade (not verified) :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 4:15pm

Neither "Nous Sommes du Soleil" nor "The Revealing Science of God." "Gates of Delirium," perhaps?

59
by Kevin from Philly :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 4:51pm

As long as "The Clap" isn't in there. Hate for that to spread.

65
by Mike Tanier :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 6:11pm

That's The Yes Album, he said, ruining the joke. But really, why name a three minute guitar instrumental The Clap when all it will do is alienate and offend, and you are not exactly a punk band...

78
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 9:59am

Because he couldn't spell "Gonorrhea"?

85
by Emptyeye (not verified) :: Sat, 12/03/2011 - 9:54pm

For that matter, without actually going to look it up, isn't "The Gates of Delirium" off of Relayer, the album after Topographic?

86
by Noah of Arkadia :: Mon, 12/05/2011 - 11:12am

Oh, that's why I didin't get the original comment. Absolutely, Gates of Delirium is from Relayer, not Tales

------
We are number one. All others are number two, or lower.

69
by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 7:41pm

Said t. Trbow fitst qb 61 years to grt 22 rushrs game. Nobody saif other guy. Ptetty sure guy = joe geri piytsburgh steelers. Like tebow guy not real qb. Geri single wing tailback. Steelrrs 1952 last team use dingle wing regularly

79
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:31am

They said most QB rushes since 1961.

Tom Matte had 22 rushes in a game in which he threw a pass in 1969, but Unitas was the starting QB for that game:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/196910130clt.htm

Billy Kilmer, who became a QB, had 20 rushing attempts in a game in 1961, but was still a HB at this time.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/196110150min.htm

Bobby Douglass had 19 attempts in this game in 1979, in which he was the starting QB
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/197311040gnb.htm

Vick has had 14 or more attempts on a couple of occasions.

I'm guessing Joe Geri and Spec Sanders did it in the pre-1950s. Sanders' 1947 campaign featured 231 rushing attempts in 14 games. Likely one of those games made it to 22 attempts. Sanders was AAFC, though.

Geri did it in week 7 of 1950.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/195011050phi.htm

25 attempts for 113 yards, and 1-11 passing with an INT. he did it again in week 10.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/195011230crd.htm

81
by Kevin from Philly :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 11:40am

Dingle wing? Even after last night's debacle, RJ can still make me laugh.

70
by Temo :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 10:04pm

Just wondering: what chapter in the Philly Fan Code describes giving up on a team threatening to having its first sub-500 season in 5 years, and 2nd in 11 years?

There's got to be a clause in there somewhere.

71
by jamie_k74 :: Thu, 12/01/2011 - 10:31pm

"The boys sat to watch me play, with Mikey sent away at the first of many, many obscenities. C.J. has heard such language -– he is in third grade, after all -– and I allowed him to stay, though I closed the door to make sure my wife did not hear him hearing such language".

I hear you, brother.

82
by Noah of Arkadia :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 1:36pm

And that's how I feel about the Eagles

Hotel California? By that time I had forgotten this was about football at all.

------
We are number one. All others are number two, or lower.

83
by Martial (not verified) :: Fri, 12/02/2011 - 3:19pm

Wait a minute, Tanier knows Armored Saint?