Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

17 May 2012

Walkthrough: Suh Love

by Mike Tanier

Spring is a time for true love. And Suh love.

Ndamukong Suh will be starring in a reality dating show called The Choice next month. Suh and other contestants will hear "pitches" from hopefuls and then select, sight-unseen, their choice of whom to date. It’s like speed dating for the blind, or Internet dating with the advantage of getting to hear the other person’s voice before that awkward Applebee's bar meeting and without the false impression you get from a decade-old photograph of the suitor’s more attractive sibling.

Oh, the drama. Suh may be forced to spend an evening with someone homely, which would be awful for such a sexy beast as Suh, and even worse for the producers. The "pitches" are probably made via audio recordings, so the contest favors unusual-looking women with deceptively sultry voices. An NPR radio personality could probably coax Suh straight to the altar before he gets a peek and realizes she looks like Al Franken in a straggly wig. After a quick "I do" Suh spends the rest of his life growing kale and curly-leaf basil in his backyard garden, without pesticides, which may be a fitting punishment for his crimes.

This would be the point in the essay where I make some quips about Suh’s reputation for violence. Those jokes would then prompt a few comments accusing me of unfairly projecting a handful of late hits on the football field onto Suh’s personal life, trivializing the issue of domestic violence in the name of a cheap gag, etc. Rather than invite such criticism, I invite you to make a long list of all the men you would never, ever, let your daughter date. Axl Rose. Eminem. Various serial killers and terrorists. Some high-ranking members of the political party you hate. The Joker. That dude down the street who only seems to own cut-off jeans. Metta World Peace. You are getting to Suh, aren’t you? He’s in your top 50. You got to him before you got to that kid who now runs North Korea, didn’t you?

As for the lazy joke that trivializes domestic violence, I will leave that to the Huffington Post: "Of course, a fiery personality isn't always a bad thing on a date." That’s what I did wrong in my dating days! I was polite, generous, and funny, but I did not spear anyone. Live and learn.

Suh’s driving record also makes him less-than-coveted boyfriend material, though being reckless and crashing into things isn’t always a bad thing on a date, maybe. The Huffington Post article reveals that a beauty queen named Rima Fakih is also involved in the reality show, and she was arrested for speeding in Michigan with an open bottle of champagne and a blood alcohol level of 0.19. Fakih would be my kind of woman if she did not look like a Kardashian clone. Our cultural idea of beauty is somehow collapsing to the point where girls who look and act like they work the weekend shift at Piercing Pagoda are considered sex symbols.

The producers of The Choice missed an obvious opportunity: Suh should date Fakih, cameras following them on a non-stop drunken thrill ride, preferably on closed-off streets.

The producers also made the mistake of thinking of Suh as a "celebrity." We know him very well around here, but John Q. Reality Show Viewer probably does not focus much on interior line play when watching football, if he watches football and not Cupcake Wars on Sunday afternoon. (Suh and Fakih can enter cupcake contests together. And Suh can beat the holy living s*** out of Justin Willman when he loses!) Terrell Owens and Chad Ochocinco made great reality fodder because they are attention-craving goofballs who had already made names for themselves among fans of the inane. Suh is not quite Kroy Biermann obscure, but he reeks of "fifth choice" for this type of endeavor.

The problem the producers faced is that many of the best reality television football options are married. Ben Roethlisberger is married now. In fact, Roethlisberger just earned his college degree. He is Benjamin Button, doing everything backwards: first Super Bowl rings, then marriage, then a college degree. Next year pimples, then the simple lessons of Sunday school, many years too late.

Even incoming rookies are often married, which is old news for most fans. Ryan Tannehill is married to aspiring model Lauren Ufer, who is gorgeous of course. Ufer works her way into many photos with her husband, because she is an aspiring model, and because no one wants to look at Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland. Ryan and Lauren could star in one heck of a reality show, surrounded by wacky characters and unlikely situations. It could be called "a typical Dolphins season."

Who does that leave? Mark Sanchez? He may appeal to the wrong demographic, or more disturbingly, vice versa. Someone from the Falcons? Hard Knocks tried to focus on the Falcons this year. Poor Hard Knocks. Thomas Dimitroff would have tried to make it a fashion show. Tony Gonzalez would have tried to make it a cooking show. Asante Samuel would bounce off a camera tripod and fall to the ground. At some point, the Real Housewives of Atlanta crew, shooting Biermann, would run into the Hard Knocks crew, shooting Corey Peters or somebody, and everyone will take a long, sad look at his or her career choices. They will then apply for jobs on The Choice.

So reality producers are stuck with the likes of Suh. To crank up Suh’s star factor, he needs famous guest stars, or at least the aid of a little stunt casting. Suh should be forced to date extreme tanners who breastfeed their far-too-old children so viewers can get the most prurient bang for their buck. With the "voice only" format of The Choice, Suh would have no idea that the honey-voiced chanteuse he chose likes to spend her free time twirling on a spit at Boston Market, then picking junior up from school and inviting him to latch on for a little pre-dinner happy meal. That would be a television date for the ages: a penalty-prone defensive tackle trying to make small-talk with a woman who is using ultraviolet bulbs to burn grill marks onto her cheeks and a couple of kindergarteners clamped onto her bosoms like lampreys. I would hate to be Jay Cutler on the Sunday afternoon after that Saturday night fiasco.

Extreme tanning is, of course, both terrible and ridiculous. Extreme breast feeding ... on the one hand, the lactation thought-and-boob police do a great job in neonatal units of making exhausted new mothers feel like war criminals if they dare to shake up a bottle of formula with the idea that maybe, just maybe, some mechanism should be in place for someone besides themselves to nourish their infants, say at 4 a.m. or during the workday. On the flip side, my mom likes to tell stories about how Zi’ Mariette breast-fed cousin Carmine right up to his wedding day, because they were poor and lived on a farm, which grew food, but apparently not well enough.

I am reluctant to judge lifestyle choices, so if modern suburban women want to emulate early 20th century Italian immigrant peasant farmers, so be it. And of course, once something is on the cover of Time, all enlightened folks are supposed to both recognize it as an issue and celebrate it as an unusual lifestyle choice with rich rewards. Can someone put a middle-aged full-time sports blogger on the cover of Time so I can get a little tolerance? People look at me funny when I drop my kids off at kindergarten in midday wearing a Brian Moorman jersey.

I don’t own a Brian Moorman jersey, though I saw one at the local farmer’s market on Saturday. A Bills punter jersey at a South Jersey event: it does not get more random or obscure than that. Say, is Moorman single? Is he interested in a reality dating show? Punter Love .Alas, Moorman has found punter love with his wife, Amber. It looks like Suh is the best choice for The Choice.

What an awful title. Television has gotten a little lazy with titles. The Choice. The Voice. The Event. The Announcement. The Decision. The Thing. Stuff Happening. Marginal Entertainment Option #5472. A Twitter follower suggested that a Suh dating show should be called Unnecessary Loveness. That’s a show we could all enjoy.

But who has time for television in spring? There is love in the air, with rookie quarterbacks looking double-deluxe awesome at rookie camp while their foxy wives cheering them on. It is graduation season, even for nontraditional students, and Roethlisberger is as non-traditional as they come. The warm winter and long spring caused strawberries and punter jerseys to bloom early in New Jersey. It’s too nice outside my window right not to speculate on a Lions defender’s love life.

Come the dog days of summer, I will be glued to my set.

Cardinals Top Five Running Backs

1. Ollie Matson

Matson won a silver medal in the relay and a bronze medal in the 400 meters at the 1952 Olympics, just before start of his Cardinals career. So he had international-caliber speed, and he weighed 220 pounds. Matson was arguably the most athletically-gifted player in the NFL, or at least second to Jim Brown, and his gifts show when you look at his receiving statistics (he averaged over 18 yards per catch in his best seasons) and his return numbers (26.2 yards per kick return, nine career return touchdowns).

Matson’s rushing totals look pedestrian, however, because a) he played in the era of 12-game seasons; b) he lost one season to the Army; and c) the Cardinals were a little over-committed to old-fashioned T-formation football at a time when most teams were adapting to something more modern. Early in his career, Matson shared carries with Johnny Olszewski and other backs like Emmett King, Dave Mann and Emil Sitko, with running quarterbacks like Charley Trippi and Lamar McHan eating further into the rushing totals. Over time, the rotation gave way to Matson and Olszewski, but the Cardinals were almost always awful, so Matson played for a string of two-to-four win teams with a previous-generation offense. Just his luck. By the time he got to the Rams, they stunk, too.

Matson made the Hall of Fame, but in another set of circumstances, he might have been considered one of the best running backs in NFL history.

2. Ottis Anderson

The early Anderson was a dynamic power-speed-receiving back with a very long peak. He exploded with 1,600 rushing yards in his rookie season, and then slowly faded, dipping to the 1,300-yard level, then the 1,100-yard level. But all the while keeping his value as a receiver, staying durable, and keeping his yards-per-carry in the low fours despite a lot of usage. He receded to the point where Stump Mitchell took his place as featured back, and the guy who helped the Giants win the Super Bowl was just the shell of the early Anderson, a grinder Bill Parcells loved because he took care of the football (though the early Anderson fumbled a lot) and didn’t tap dance to the line. Anderson is a true Near-Hall-of-Famer; I wouldn’t kick him out if he got in.

Okay, Philadelphia trivia fans: Anderson was pounding out a 133-yard rushing game in a 14-11 Cardinals victory over the Eagles in September, 1983. The Vet did not sell out, so the game was not locally televised, so you had to listen to the game on local radio. WCAU, I believe. Anyway, the broadcast was interrupted for what breaking news story? First one to answer in the comment thread gets a No Prize.

3. Ernie Nevers

The Chicago Cardinals scored 20 offensive touchdowns in 1929. Nevers scored 14 of them. In 1931, he scored eight of the Cardinals 17 touchdowns. He also kicked most of his team’s extra points and field goals. Of course, he was also the Cardinals’ head coach in 1930 and 1931, and is probably best thought of as a player-assistant coach in his other seasons in Chicago. Did he call his own number a disproportionate amount of times near the goal line? Does it matter? The usual caveats about ancient-era players apply.

4. Terry Metcalf

The best Cardinals backs were often all-purpose backs, so their rushing totals do not leap off the stat sheet. Stump Mitchell, who earns honorable mention, was just that sort of back, as was Matson and the guy at No. 5. Metcalf was a runner-receiver-return man who, in his best seasons, gained a bit over 700 rushing yards, caught over 40 passes, and returned both punts and kicks, doing it all for good offensive teams (the Don Coryell Cardinals) in an offensively-depressed era.

Like the best Cardinals backs, he is overlooked by history because he played for the Cardinals. Matson’s reputation could benefit from a few more wins. Anderson played his best football at a time when Tony Dorsett, John Riggins, and Wilbert Montgomery were in the same division and taking their teams to Super Bowls. Metcalf was not in the same class as the best running backs of his era, but he was too good to overlook.

Metcalf’s son, Eric, played the same role his father played for the Browns before becoming a wide receiver for the run-‘n’-shoot Falcons. Terry and Eric were about the same player, size and talent wise. In the 1970s, you made Metcalfs the halfbacks in two-back offenses. In the 1990s, you move them into the slot.

5. Charley Trippi

The Paul Hornung of the Cardinals. Trippi was a three-way star for the great 1947 and 1948 Cardinals teams. He ran, caught passes, returned kicks and punts, punted a little, and played some defense for teams that went 1-1 in NFL title games. He remained productive, but the Cardinals didn’t, and by 1951 they had the bright idea of making him their quarterback. Trippi was not awful, but it was an awful idea, as most teams were starting to use dropback passers and a T-formation in which one or the other backs was a flanker: a two-back set, in other words. Trippi was still an old-school "pivot," the kind that was rapidly going out of style.

Like Hornung, Trippi is a Hall of Famer and all-time great based on the sum of his parts and his role on championship teams. Like Hornung, Trippi can be hard to evaluate as a pure running back because there is a halo around his accomplishments. But he was obviously very good.

Honorable Mention

Mitchell was a tiny scat back who spent several seasons returning kicks and running draw plays before the Cardinals realized what he could do. He then turned in a handful of seasons as a fun-to-watch sorta’ featured back.

John David Crow has a mammoth season in 1960 (1071 yards in 12 games) and scored 14 touchdowns in 1962. It was hard to leave him off this list. His fumble totals were high, a few of his productive seasons were in San Francisco, and what Metcalf did in the mid-1970s seems more impressive than what Crow did in the early 1960s. He is one of the best No. 6 or No. 7 backs we will encounter.

Johnny Roland and Jim Otis were big backs from the late 60’s through the mid 70s. Otis shared the backfield with Metcalf and often out-gained him on the ground, but Otis contributed nothing as a receiver. Roland is fourth on the Cardinals all-time rushing list, but I frankly never heard of him until I started researching this piece.

This is a very good list, and it will take several productive seasons for someone like Beanie Wells to crack it.

Posted by: Mike Tanier on 17 May 2012

115 comments, Last at 30 Dec 2012, 12:01pm by timothy riecker

Comments

1
by Anon Anon (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 11:41am

Good write-up on the top 5 Cardinals RBs. Ollie Matson was a one-man team for those 1950's Cards. His receiving and return numbers were just as impressive as his rushing totals. I think a case could be made for Nevers being their top RB of all-time because he was regarded as the best player in the NFL regardless of position when he played, but he was only a Cardinal for 3 seasons. I'm glad you had Terry Metcalf on the list. He was a human highlight reel, and was a super tough guy who could take a pounding despite his lack of size. Johnny Roland was an immediate star for the Cardinals in the mid-60's, but he hurt his knee at the end of the 1967 season and wasn't ever really the same.

77
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 9:24pm

Larry Centers' omission is a glaring mistake/oversight.

3 time Pro Bowler with the Cardinals
3rd most receptions for the Cardinals

2
by Revenge of the NURBS (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 11:45am

"An NPR radio personality could probably coax Suh straight to the altar before he gets a peek and realizes she looks like Al Franken in a straggly wig."

You're talking about Diane Rehm, right?

63
by Intropy :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:32pm

Nope. Garrison Keillor.

3
by J (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 11:56am

Jim O'Brien died.

24
by Mike Tanier :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:55pm

Ding! Ding! Ding!

35
by Joseph :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:44pm

Considering I was 8 yrs. old, just starting to follow the NFL, living in New Orleans--WHO is Jim O'Brien???
(My guesses would have been the attempted assassination of President Reagan, or something about the Phillies/Mike Schmidt/Steve Carlton.)

41
by Bright Blue Shorts :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:19pm

Jim O'Brien ... game-winning kicker for the Colts in Super Bowl V?

44
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:33pm

Jim O'Brien was a popular weatherman on one of the local news channels. Time and hard liquor prevent me from recalling whether it was channel 3, 6, or 10, but I suppose it doesn't matter.

He passed away that day. The story as I recall it was that he'd gone skydiving and had some sort of accident where his chute didn't open up. That may be the urban legend version, but it's what made the rounds of my elementary school.

46
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:37pm

That was it. Somehow, "pass away" doesn't seem the right euphemism to use when the emergency chute doesn't open in time. "Met his end", perhaps?

49
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:38pm

Fair enough. I'm allowing myself broad latitude for the possibility that I may not be recalling the story accurately 3 decades later.

48
by Travis :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:38pm

According to this article, O'Brien's chute opened, but tangled with the chute of one of his co-divers. He then mistakenly decided to cut himself loose rather than ride it out, and he was too close to the ground for his reserve chute to open completely.

73
by Mike Tanier :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 6:24pm

he was a WPVI-6 weatherman (ABC affiliate) and hosted lots of community interest shows, including PrimeTime, a local show for viewers "of a certain age" about staying active. He was incredibly popular and I never saw this region mourn quite like that.

His replacement, Dave Roberts, fathered a TV vampire.

78
by Jerry :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 5:26am

O'Brien's daughter did OK in prime time, too.

101
by Paul R :: Sun, 05/20/2012 - 3:12am

This topic leads me to the notion that a reality show with Ndamukong Suh being interviewed by Terry Gross while skydiving with a malfunctioning parachute might be worth watching.

4
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 11:57am

Its rare that a topic is so uninspiring that even Tanier can't coax any life into it. Apparently, third-rate reality TV (apoligies for the redundancy) is such a topic.

22
by Shattenjager :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:26pm

Quite. The only other one I can remember is wine.

33
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:39pm

See, I rather enjoyed the wine one. Not on an all-time list type thing, but I certainly liked it. I would MUCH rather talk wine (although I know very little about it) than television. The subject matter just had my eyes glazing over. If it hadn't been Tanier, I'd have just headed for the "x" in the upper right-hand corner and not bothered.

43
by Shattenjager :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:32pm

I'm not sure there is anything I would not rather talk about than alcohol,* including any "unscripted"/"reality"/whatever-other-bullshit-name-it-has-this-week television.

*Examination of the physiological effects of alcohol, particularly the neurological effects, is at least tolerable. Discussion of its preparation, taste, etc. is not. Half of the time I don't even recognize the words people use for that.

27
by jimbohead :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:00pm

Couldn't disagree more. I laughed heartily multiple times this morning. Rothlisberger finally learning sunday school lessons as an old man? Suh marrying an NPR host and tending an organic herb garden? Brilliant, I say!

29
by InTheBoilerRoom :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:28pm

You know, considering Suh is from Portland, an organic herb farm may suit him just fine. Maybe he'd even be up for raising free range chickens.

74
by Mike Tanier :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 6:25pm

He puts birds on things. Then knocks them off.

5
by J (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 11:57am

Jim O'Brien died

6
by J (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 11:58am

Jim O'Brien Died.

7
by ebongreen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:00pm

Best option for the breaking news in Philly '83 is Jim O'Brien's death. Not that I was there, but Google is my friend.

11
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:13pm

Forgot about that. There's actually a very good chance that my dad and I would have been listening to that game on the radio that day, although I can't say for certain we were.

20
by Travis :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:19pm

Not a good weekend for skydiving or even kite-flying, apparently.

8
by drobviousso :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:05pm

"Suh’s driving record also makes him less-than-coveted boyfriend material, though being reckless and crashing into things isn’t always a bad thing on a date, maybe."

Oh, I agree.
- PJ O'rourke

9
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:07pm

Ollie Matson is a great example of how player interdependence in football makes it the game in which it is most difficult to evaluate individual value. Steve Carlton can put up nearly unmatched numbes for a season, while playing for a Phillies team that may as well have had a local beer league softball squad playing behind him. Ted Williams can be considered perhaps the greatest hitter ever, despite a lot years when he didn't have much help. Oscar Robertson played with a lot of stiffs in many years, before getting to play with Alcindor, but a lot of people say he was the best, or at least top 5. A football player with bad teammates, or in the wrong system? It won't matter how good he is, the general consensus will be much more unlikely to give him his due.

13
by tuluse :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:20pm

Well they did put him in the hall. So it's not like he got completely ignored.

36
by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:51pm

Yes Carlton 27-10, 1.97 era for garbage 59 win philloes team 1972

39
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:06pm

I didn't pay that much attention to the National League as a wee child, but I remember reading the boxscores for Carlton's starts in the 2nd half of that season. I couldn't believe he was going to win that many games, with a squad of guys like that behind him. I still think it may have been the best seasonal performance I've ever seen in a team sport.

42
by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:21pm

Also amaxing- probably his best season in long career and had it when playong for worst team he ever played for

10
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:10pm

September 1983. Would that have been the MOVE fiasco?

25
by Mike Tanier :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:56pm

That was May 13th. I think it was also a Friday. If someone blew up a part of Philly while the Eagles were losing to the Cardinals, no one would notice.

32
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:36pm

The part that always impressed me was that Mayor Goode managed to blow up an entire city block and kill countless constituents - AND GET RE-ELECTED.

38
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:01pm

Hey, an armed standoff is always made more interesting by a helicopter bombing run, and how would Bruce Willis' movie career have taken off, absent screenwriters being given ideas by the Philly PD! Make the bad guy a foreigner named Hans, don't bum anybody out by killing kids, and it's box office gold, baby!

50
by Hurt Bones :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:42pm

It was a Monday. Was in Cape May at the time. I spent my summers and many a weekend there. Philly TV and some NY TV was all we got.

76
by dmb :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 6:55pm

It was also in 1985, but point taken.

12
by drobviousso :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:14pm

1983, hmmm. Did they interrupt to report on the exploits of a six year old Chicago area quarterback who's obvious lack of gumption and moral fiber reveals that, while he may be an OK starter in the regular season, he will never win a Superbowl?

14
by preetamj :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:27pm

I was going to guess, the Korean Airlines flight being shot down a Soviet Mig, but I guess it would be Philly-related news.

15
by hbh_uk :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:28pm

Is the news story the Soviet Missile false alarm thing?

16
by Eddo :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:34pm

Great article, Mike, as always.

If I may make one suggestion: in the player headings for the top fives, could you include the years that said player played for the team? It would be a nice bit of info to have, without having to jump over to PFR.

17
by bhauck :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 12:52pm

"Mark Sanchez? He may appeal to the wrong demographic, or more disturbingly, vice versa."

What does this mean? If it's a gay joke, not cool.

18
by drobviousso :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:02pm

nope. It's a Sanchez has reportedly been involved with ladies who may be a bit on the young side joke.

79
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 6:47am

Isn't it both?

Gay men like Sanchez --> we're not disturbed, but TV producers are because it's not a big enough market

Sanchez likes high school girls --> we're disturbed

That was my reading.

88
by jimbohead :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:57pm

Revealing my own ignorance: aren't gay men a prized demographic among advertisers, with some research behind them being more willing to spend on consumer goods? And besides, it's not like viewership is a zero-sum game; it's entirely possible to appeal to gay men (for instance by featuring an attractive muscular man on the show) without alienating other viewers.

96
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 6:00pm

You're probably right - advertising is not exactly my area of expertise either. Maybe there's not enough of a gay-NFL crossover demographic?

Ah, what the hell do I know?

97
by tuluse :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 6:03pm

I think young women were supposed to be on both sides of the equation, thus "vice versa."

19
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:15pm

"Eminem."

The wealthy, responsible single father, Marshall Mathers? That Eminem?

34
by Led :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:43pm

No, not that guy. The guy who made the rap song about killing his wife.

47
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:37pm

There is absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with using art as catharsis.

The quality of the art is in the eyes of the beholder, but the metaphors, allegories, and even hyperbole are all standard fare for any form of creative writing. Him making a rap about killing his wife is no different than Mark Twain writing stories where little boys run away from home. Nobody killed their wife. Nobody ran away from home. It's art.

The problem would be if he acted it out and actually killed someone.

59
by Led :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:22pm

Easy to take an academic view of things when it's not your daughter that's the fictional murder victim. From wikipedia:

"Eminem is both emotional and aggressive throughout the entire song, as the song portrays Eminem murdering Kim.[1] The song begins with Eminem in Kim's home (after murdering her husband and her stepson). Eminem is talking calmly to their daughter, who is sleeping. Eminem then starts to shout verbal abuse at Kim, which remains a common element throughout the entire song.

In the second verse, the setting changes to Eminem and Kim in a car, while in the third, they are in the woods. The song continues with Eminem slitting Kim's throat, while screaming "Bleed, bitch! Bleed!". The song ends in a prolonged outro during which the listener can hear the sounds of a body being dragged through the grass and placed in the trunk of a car. This same clip is played as the beginning of "97' Bonnie & Clyde", indicating the association between the two songs and the direct chronology of events.

Eminem performed this song in-concert on July 7, 2000 in Detroit. Kim saw the performance. During the performance, Eminem abused a mock-up doll of her on stage to audience approval. This was a recurring part of his performance in the Up In Smoke Tour. Kim attempted suicide by slitting her wrists after viewing the show's conclusion.[2] Months later, she sued Eminem for defamation after he depicted her violent death in the song.[3]"

I reserve the right to prefer that my daughter not be subjected to that. YMMV.

65
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:33pm

I'm familiar with the song. I'm familiar with the back story. My opinion hasn't changed. Fortunately, we're dealing with opinions. I'd be a pretty boring place if we all had to have the same one.

69
by Led :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:39pm

Of course. I was just bringing it around to Tanier's point, which is not wanting his daughter to date Eminem.

84
by dryheat :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 10:52am

I understand it's your opinion, and as such it's valid, but I can't imagine any father being okay with his daughter dating an individual who has made hundreds of millions by glorifying abduction, violence against women, and murder? I don't even think it's relevant whether it's adopted persona or not - perception is reality, and he desires to be perceived as such. What does that say about him? At best that he loves money and fame so much he'll do whatever necessary to sell records and concert tickets. At worse, he comes out with a song on his next record encouraging the gang rape, torture, and murder of my family if she should happen to end the relationship. And that would evidently be OK because it's not really him, it's his "artistic" persona.

To be fair, most young men showered with such money and fame at such a young age are knuckleheads, if not thugs, and I'm sure Mr. Mathers will mature considerably as he continues to age.

I see no difference, other than scale, between mafia, gang-bangers, and AQ --- they're all terrorists in my eyes.

70
by Verifiable (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 5:08pm

Wasn't that Slim Shady

81
by Chris UK :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 8:15am

Nice.

80
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 6:50am

It's eminently possible to be a good father and a bad partner, no?

82
by Will Allen :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 8:22am

I'd say no, because children crave stability and harmony in their home lives, which means the adults in the home being good to one another. Being a good parent means refraining from being an A-hole in nearly all ways that are observable to the child.

83
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 10:37am

Point taken, but consider divorced parents who have a highly functional and amicable post-breakup relationship, but who couldn't get on while they were together, and where the father is loving and dedicated towards his child but treats his subsequent girlfriends badly, to the point where none of those relationships last long enough for them to figure in the child's life. For the sake of argument, the divorce (or at least separation) could even have happened prior to the child's birth, meaning they never experienced traumatic fighting between their parents.

Or hell, a case where the child is the accidental product of a drunken one night stand between friends who in the cold light of day have no desire for an actual relationship, but where, again, the father treats the child well, its mother reasonably, and his subsequent partners badly.

85
by Will Allen :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:02pm

I suppose, if the father is successful at hiding the fact that he is an A-hole. Very few people are such consistently good actors, in my opinion, with regard to their performance directed at people they have close bonds to.

Being a good parent is extremely hard, if you are a jerk to some people on a consistent basis, because it is hard to hide that fact from your children, and you can't be a good parent if your children know that you are a jerk to some people on a consistent basis. It's a helluva thing, a 24/7/52 job, providing an example of behavior for developing brains to observe.

86
by tuluse :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:10pm

Ignoring absolute goodness/badness for a second, it is possible that a person can be a better parent then they are a partner.

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by Will Allen :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:25pm

Oh, sure. To me, "bad partner" is not synonymous with "imperfect partner". To me, you really have to do some really bad things, on a consistent basis over time, to fit into the category of "bad partner".

95
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 5:49pm

See, I think I've known quite a few people who treat the rest of mankind about as well as can reasonably be expected, with the sole exception of whichever specimen they're currently dating, whose life they make miserable. It's not a phenomenon I feel I understand the psychology of terribly well, but I've encountered several men and a few women of whom it really seems to be true. I've definitely had friends who I would trust with my life but not with my hypothetical daughter/sister, put it that way.

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by Noah of Arkadia :: Sat, 05/19/2012 - 11:01am

Kids are not so easily fooled. They perceive much more deeply than we give them credit for.

------
We are number one. All others are number two, or lower.

21
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:23pm

Milt Campbell might have been a better athlete than Matson. Terrible football player, but a gold-and-silver medalist decathlete in 1952 and 1956 who had speed times comparable to Matson's, and was even bigger.

23
by Dave G (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:40pm

Hey, you give terrorists a bad name.

26
by dryheat :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 1:59pm

Suh and other contestants will hear "pitches" from hopefuls and then select, sight-unseen, their choice of whom to date. It’s like speed dating for the blind, or Internet dating with the advantage of getting to hear the other person’s voice before that awkward Applebee's bar meeting and without the false impression you get from a decade-old photograph of the suitor’s more attractive sibling.

Or like the dating game. Which was tired and dull 15 years ago.

Unless Brody Bruce is involved.

28
by AJ (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:21pm

"It’s too nice outside my window right not to speculate on a Lions defender’s love life." I think you meant "now" not "not"

Hey, not every walkthrough can have that o so riveting subject, sometimes tanier must pull a charlie sheen and spin crap into gold. Here he does his best and its reasonable.

The better line thread should be- who would you not want your daughter dating and what type of people top the list?

Heres mine: 1.Serial killers/sadists/you get the idea, 2.Terrorists 3.Gangbangers 4.Drug addicts 5. Homeless 6. Rock and Roller before finally you get to the crazy in denial violent prone athelete- a la world peace and Suh

And btw- google is totally cheating! From now on, when tanier possess a question- especially one that offers a big fat NO PRIZE(personally, i think a good prize would be a bottle of legacy), you shouldn't look it up on google out of principle

100
by JimZipCode :: Sat, 05/19/2012 - 7:25pm

I am old enough to have actually *WON* a No-Prize from Marvel! They totally mailed me a little card that said it was a No-Prize. I treasured that damn thing.

Due to the publishing schedule, I received the little card in the mail some weeks (months?) before my letter was published, so for a long while I had no idea what it was for. Fun times.

30
by Dr. Sort of Like Being a Cyborg (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:36pm

I used the Internet, which is either cheating or wisely fusing the powers of man and machine, depending on how you look at it.

I'm guessing the breaking news story in 1983 was weatherman Jim O'Brien's death in a skydiving accident.

If not that, was it the escape of 38 IRA members from Maze Prison, the Lebanese cease-fire, or something else?

Steve Carlton had won his 300th game the previous Friday, but that wasn't breaking news.

I root for the other Pennsylvania team and lived in another part of the state at the time, so I wasn't listening to the Eagles broadcast.

31
by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:36pm

j.d. crow very good player.. had face disfigurement so was also one of ugliest guys ever in legaue
Moved to tight emd late in carrerr whem play fot SF 49ers.

Metcalf heavy fumbler. When leave StL go to CFL and in 81 go back to nfl in 1981 for bit role im Washingtpn. Played entire season but had very low amount of touchss compardd to Vardinals days.

O. Matson when trafed to Ramms involved in oneof biggest tradrs ever.

37
by Theo :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 2:51pm

"The Voice" actually started off as "The Voice of Holland". John the Mol sold it to NBC for a bazillion dollars. Just like he did with Big Brother (to CBS). Thank that guy for the crappy shows.
Voice of America (VOA) is the official external broadcast institution of the United States federal government. (wiki)
So there you go. Not laziness per se.

40
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:17pm

It's too easy to put the criminally violent on the list of types you wouldn't want dating your daughter. Let's assume your daughter's beau isn't violent away from his profession, and assume that he is financially very successful. What profession is the worst, when you think about having to see the schmuck for the next decade, as you gain a couple grandchildren, before the inevitable divorce after about a decade? Actor? Rock/Hip Hop Star? Entertainment Lawyer/Agent? Investment banker? NBA superstar? Wide receiver? Movie Producer?

45
by AJ (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:33pm

if the primary goal was for happiness- then it really depends on the personality of your daughter, but forgetting that, you would want the least stressful profession with some glamor aspect to it- i would say doctor tops everyone's list, then actor, sport star 2, then things like investment banker, lawyer, etc.

On the other hand, if your goal as a selfish parent was for continued wealth preservation, i would say the best is some sort of entrepreneur where the kids could become part of the business. Honestly, i feel like running an nfl franchise is the best thing you can do. Just ask jerry jones- who is clearly not afraid of nepotism and yet their franchise is the highest valued in the country- clearly something not even the worst kind of owner can screw up.

51
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:46pm

Good grief, when I think about having a conversation at the holidays, with my daughter's actor husband, I think I might just say "Excuse me" to go hang myself in the garage, based upon interviews with actors I've seen. Doctor may not be bad, depending on the specialty; the world's best proctologist or podiatrist probably makes a pretty good living without having an insufferable ego.

89
by jebmak :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 3:06pm

Maybe you need to listen to different actors Will? I really like Riki Lindhome's podcast. She's a mid-level actor who interviews other mid level actor/writer/directors. She's also part of the comedy duo Garfunkle and Oates (I think the song "Pregnant Women are Smug" is their most well known).

(By mid-level, I mean has been in dozens of things and you probably recognize them but they are not generally the lead.)

90
by Intropy :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 3:16pm

In a similar vein, I've been listening to the Tobolowsky files which is mostly actor Steven Tobolowsky telling stories. I highly recommend it.

94
by jebmak :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 3:40pm

And now I will be listening to at least an episode of that next week. Thanks!

91
by tuluse :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 3:18pm

I think actors are coached to be as bland as possible. Don't want to offend anyone and risk them not coming to see your movie/show.

92
by jebmak :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 3:39pm

I assume that you mean for televised interviews? The opposite is the case for actual acting.

93
by tuluse :: Fri, 05/18/2012 - 3:40pm

Of course. I was referring to the interviews Will Allen would have seen. Though, I guess I am making the assumption he is not a casting director.

52
by tuluse :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:49pm

Jones is pretty shrewd at making money, and he does try to win. The worst kind of owner is Mike Brown or the Bidwells.

53
by tuluse :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:52pm

I don't think I could even look a high powered banker in the eyes at this point in time. "So your actions put how many people out of their homes? And cost the tax payers how much? And you got how large of a bonus while all this was going on? At what time did it dawn on you that betting pennies against millions of dollars that it was impossible for a bank to go out of business might not be the smartest thing?"

56
by Guest789 :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:12pm

*rolls eyes*
Because it's totally the bank's fault that people bought mortgages they couldn't afford.

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

57
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:18pm

It's totally the bank's fault when the bank needs a taxpayer bailout to avoid going banko, but I think we are in danger of violating the cardinal rule of this site, which is to avoid politics.

58
by tuluse :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:22pm

Perhaps not, but it is their fault they packaged them into complex loans and pretended they were was far less risk than there was, and it was their fault they were selling credit default swaps for pennies on the million against banks failing.

Those two things are the primary reason for the crisis (the actually value of the garbage mortgages was just a small fraction of what the banks had built them into), and basically the entire reason we came this close to a 1920s level depression.

66
by Led :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:34pm

This violates the prime directive, of course, but it is the bank's fault when, after the borrower predictably defaults, the bank's servicing affiliate siphon's off the equity value of the house with bogus fees and late charges and force-placed insurance (placed with another affiliate, natch) at multiples of normal market premiums. This was a racket. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

61
by jimbohead :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:25pm

So, I recently married a woman with an uncle who is an investment banker (kindof; the org charts at the top of large financial institutions are weird). Nicest guy I've ever met, crazy hard worker, super smart with super smart kids (and was in no way associated with subprime mortgages). My main hesitation about letting my hypothetical daughter marry an investment banker - or a doctor or lawyer for that matter - is the hours. How much will you enjoy your life and your money if you're tied to a person who's always either at the office or thinking about work?

64
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:32pm

Yeah, not every actor is Mel Gibson, and not very investment banker gets a taxpayer guaranteed golden parachute.

106
by RichC (not verified) :: Mon, 05/21/2012 - 12:45pm

How much time is spent at the office has very little to do with career choice, and a lot to do with personality.

There are doctors who work 100 hours a week, and doctors who work 15. There are lawyers, CEOs, etc, who are the same.

What you wont find, however, are blue-collar workers who work 15 hours a week.

107
by Bnonymous (not verified) :: Mon, 05/21/2012 - 1:33pm

Sure you will. Go to any construction site. Go to damn near any union/government job, and you'll find a bunch of people sitting on their ass not working. I'm not saying that corporate america isn't the same, but lets not romanticize some sort of blue collar work ethic when in truth it's a myth.

108
by LionInAZ :: Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:24am

One of the most amusing things I learned from hanging around on football sites was the vast number of guys who were on the football comment boards 12 hours a day, and yet complained incessantly about lazy/overpaid union and government workers. Especially when they boasted about how their jobs were so easy they could take a day off to go play golf.

110
by Mr Shush :: Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:02am

I'm not going to complain about my current (office) job being hard - it isn't - but I worked for about a year as a TV systems maintenance technician working on IRS and MATV systems in large blocks, and while at times some physically grueling work was inevitable, there was definitely ample opportunity to doss about at others, and a substantial range of work ethics to be found among my colleagues. I doubt there's any job that no-one lazy does or does lazily.

111
by Bnonymous (not verified) :: Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:25am

The difference is, nobody's trying to push any illusions about white collar work. Nobody's trying to wrap it up in a rugged package of patriotism, manliness, and nobility.

112
by RC (not verified) :: Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:52am

If they're sitting on their ass at site, they're still not at home.

Which is the point.

114
by Steve in WI :: Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:49am

I doubt you will find any doctors, lawyers, executives, etc., who work only 15 hours a week (or heck, even 30-40) at the beginning and middle of their careers. Which is really what's relevant if you're thinking about the type of partner/parent someone is going to be. Yes, maybe one can take his or her foot off the gas and basically work part-time when they're nearing retirement age, but no one gets out of med school or law school and says "now I'm just going to work a couple of days a week." Quite the opposite, actually.

54
by Dean :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 3:53pm

All those are obvious for the notorious egos involved. But I would be equally dissapointed if she came home with some deadbeat freeloader who contstantly treated the government like his personal wet-nurse rather than standing on his own two feet. I don't care if the guy is blue-collar or white-collar as long as he's not some shiftless, lazy bum.

55
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:05pm

Yeah, that's as obvious as the criminally violent, which is why I stipulated financial success. I'm looking for the world's tallest midget, or shortest giant, or soemthing like that.

60
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:25pm

Good grief, I forgot the obvious; United States Senator (II'll ignore the Exrcutive Branch, because there are only to elected positions). I think I'd renounce my citizenship if my son in law was a regular guest on the Sunday morning talk shows.

62
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:26pm

"Let's assume your daughter's beau isn't violent away from his profession, and assume that he is financially very successful. What profession is the worst, when you think about having to see the schmuck for the next decade"

1. Gigolo
2. Hitman
3. Drug dealer
4. Test pilot
5. Kennedy (this may be a repeat of #1 and #3)

68
by Will Allen :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:37pm

I should have written "violent away from his LEGAL profession". #1 can be legal, depending on the language employed, so that's a good one. Test piloting just ain't as dangerous as it used to be, but few thing were as dangerous as test piloting used to be. I'm sure there are some guys who tested the Osprey who would differ, though.

67
by Intropy :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 4:36pm

September 1983. Hmmm. Brett Favre announces he's coming out of retirement?

72
by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 5:51pm

In 1983 B..Fabre about 14 ysars old. More about basrball plagiing and high school footvall then.. maybr he retired from baseball that yesr and then came back in spring anf then quit anf them played again and then quit.

71
by sswoods (not verified) :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 5:22pm

Love the Top Fives.

I understand not a lot of people have much appreciation for the backs of the single wing era, especially those who played before the NFL started keeping official statistics in '32. Nevers is largely forgotten today, but during the 20's he was considered one of the two or three best players in the game - Red Grange, Paddy Driscoll, and Nevers were THE guys. (Jimmy Conzelman, Bennie Friedman, and Guy Chamberlain would have to be included in the best of the era also.) Nevers was often compared favorably with Jim Thorpe. The Cards actually had Driscoll through the most of the decade as well, winning their 1925 Championship behind him.

It's hard to place him in a list like this though because of how different players like him were used in those days.

75
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 05/17/2012 - 6:33pm

"That would be a television date for the ages: a penalty-prone defensive tackle trying to make small-talk with a woman who is using ultraviolet bulbs to burn grill marks onto her cheeks and a couple of kindergarteners clamped onto her bosoms like lampreys"

Somebody somewhere has been reading GRRM.

As an aside I was really hoping that this week's top five would be the 49ers. The 49ers Superbowl Nation site, Niners Nation, is revoting its all time team and I was hoping you would provide a well written article to stop the mouthbreathing collection of voters from electing Roger Craig as the best ever 49ers running back. They will vote for Craig over Perry and McElhenny, which means that I'll get angry every time I go to the site to find the amalgamation of 49ers online media. I bite my thumb at thee Tanier!

102
by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:42am

Dounds like site of morpns if vote Craig over perry snd Mcelhenny

103
by Dean :: Sun, 05/20/2012 - 1:45pm

Either a site of morons or a site of kids raised on video games and highlight reels who don't have the attention span to watch an entire game and don't realize that the sporting world didn't magically morph into appearance the day ESPN powered up.

98
by Zach (not verified) :: Sat, 05/19/2012 - 2:49am

I'm amazed that I'm the only one who got a chuckle (admittedly, a sophomoric one) our of Mike's admission that he didn't "spear" anyone on his dates as a young man...

104
by Old Europe Joe (not verified) :: Mon, 05/21/2012 - 5:59am

Great Article!
I had to close my office door, because I was laughing so loud.

105
by Kevin from Philly :: Mon, 05/21/2012 - 9:40am

"Suh and Fakih can enter cupcake contests together. And Suh can beat the holy living s*** out of Justin Willman when he loses!"

Mike, you are a sweet genius!

109
by LionInAZ :: Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:33am

Was the day that 38 IRA prisoners escaped from The Maze prison -- the biggest prison breakout in British history. That must have been a huge embarrassment to the Brits, and no doubt had plenty of support from plenty of Irish-Americans on the Eastern Seaboard.

113
by usernaim250 :: Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:16pm

And back to some actual football. Ottis Anderson is by no stretch a near hall of famer. Is is a sure Hall of Very Good. One great year, a couple of excellents, a handful of very goods. Then injured and when he came back he was clearly replacement level. That a coach was in love with him and rode him when a street free agent could have done as well should not add too much to his glory.

115
by timothy riecker (not verified) :: Sun, 12/30/2012 - 12:01pm

An outstanding share! I have just forwarded this onto a
friend who has been conducting a little research on this.
And he actually bought me lunch because I found it for
him... lol. So let me reword this.... Thank YOU for the meal!
! But yeah, thanks for spending time to discuss this matter here on your blog.