I'm starting to feel sorry for Alex Smith, in the same way I felt sorry for David Carr before I realized he couldn't play the position. It doesn't look good.

Folks, when the eight year olds make the same, typical, criticisms, as the adult fans, there are two possible conclusions; football isn't nearly as complicated as is commonly believed, or football fans don't know squat. Maybe both are true.

Mike Nolan is clearly gunning for Herm's crown.

Sorry; seven year olds, not eight year olds.

Patrick Crayton is clearly on a roll for the title of greatest bigmouth prick in the league.

#3:

As someone who just tied with a co-worker's 7-year-old daughter in the office pool (her strategy: pick all the teams named after animals), I'll take option 2.

wait, matt millen and scott linehan both named their sons marcus? let's hope neither takes over the world.

I don't have my PFP's handy; how did Lewin view Alex Smith's prospects?

Slo-mo, what is the percentage of guys in that contest who are wide receivers? Sometimes, I get so tired of so many of the guys playing that position that I wish the forward pass were outlawed.

8 Year Olds, Dude.

Patrick Crayton is clearly on a roll for the title of greatest bigmouth prick in the league.

Well, he does have TO on his team. He's learning from the best.

Yeah, for a guy that's accomplished pretty much nothing at this level Crayton sure likes to spout off.

I think there are a couple of reasons you tend to see more chest thumping from receivers (vs. other positions) - they have more of an individual contest than other positions (other than DB) and they are uniquely vulnerable during play. They have to concentrate on the pass and attempt to ignore the presence of the defenders looking to take their head off. After you get clocked a few times, I think it would be natural to want to 'celebrate' any successs you have.

#10, 12:
Well, I can see you have to be an out-there kinda guy to be an NFL WR to start with, so I understand they may tend to be big-mouthed. And someone like TO, well he has the talent to back up much of what he says, and apart from some foolish banter now and then, as far as I know he doesn't have a history of being a disrespectful jerk with his opponents (at least in the media, on the field anything goes).

But arrogant and mediocre WRs like Crayton truly are the pits, IMO.

Nah, slo-mo, TO is just a disrespectful jerk to his teammates, or at least his former teammates.

Andy Reid is a fatty!!!!!

9: I don't have my PFP handy, either, but Alex Smith started fewer than 30 games in college, so the system probably doesn't love him. Here's the list of top ten QBs with fewer than 30 starts:
Ryan Leaf Tim Couch Akili Smith Michael Vick David Carr Joey Harrington Alex Smith Jamarcus Russell
Not an imposing group.

Regarding 8 year olds and football - I somewhat jokingly asked my two daughters and wife,

"what can the Vikings do to win more games"

My 8 yr old daughter replied,

"It doesn't matter Daddy, football isn't important."

14

Just because a player runs his mouth doesn't mean he's mediocre. Crayton is 4th in DVOA for wide receivers and 16th for DPAR in the league, which implies that he's not seeing the ball a lot but when he is, he's making it count.

Re: Crayton & Owens.

Well, Crayton quite as arrogant and irritating at Owens, but his arrogance-to-production ratio is the highest I've seen since Freddy Mitchell sucked his way out of the league. (Runner-up: Brandon Lloyd)

Make that "Crayton isn't quite as arrogant..."

Re #20:
I'm closing in on Brandon Lloyd, at least, aren't I?

How , at this stage is Alex Smith supposed to be successful? His OC has changed every year, his receivers are poor and his line has been mostly inadequate. towards the end of last year, when his line was OK, he began to show signs of progress. Now that his coaching staff/ offensive line/ receivers are bad he's regressed again.

I think it's a little soon to discard a 23 year old quarterback.

To be fair, when Crayton is on the field, hes usually got a nickleback covering him. Teams sell out to stop TO and Whitten, not Patrick Crayton. He's getting the Donte Stallworth treatment.

As a cowboys fan, I've accepted Crayton under the "one guy" rule. Like, you need the "one guy" who's gonna talk more than he should, gets his team fired up, etc. Owens has been very quiet this year, so I figure we need someone to do that.

Or it's just a lot of rationalization for the fact that our supposed 3rd receiver is painting a huge bull's eye on his back.

18 - That's perfect. You should post that story every time a flame war erupts here, maybe some posters would gain a bit of perspective.

#23: Whenever I see a situation like this, Steve Young's career path gives me hope. The kid obviously has SOME talent, or he wouldn't have been drafted first overall. It's just a matter of getting him in a situation where he would be successful.

It seems like a QB's career, more than any other position, depends on what kind of team he's surrounded by at the beginning of his career. You almost never see a highly drafted QB who excels but whose team remains bad; conversely, you almost never see such a QB look bad when the rest of his offense is talented.

I know there's some chicken-or-egg going on with that logic, but the correlation still has to say something.

Well, Crayton is decent. If Glenn comes back, he'll be one of the best 3rd receivers in the league. I wouldn't say bein a top 80 receiver in the world is anything to be ashamed of. I mean, he's not Freddie Mitchell. At least he can play some. Not that I would mind if he wasn't on the Cowboys next year if we could get someone just as good. But Brandon Jacobs comment was funny I thought.

Slo-mo, what is the percentage of guys in that contest who are wide receivers? Sometimes, I get so tired of so many of the guys playing that position that I wish the forward pass were outlawed.

And I'm sure that feeling has nothing to do with the fact that you're a fan of the Vikings. ;)

TO can back up his bragging, that is true. But he can't back up the things he says about his teammates, his attitude, or other people in the NFL.
TO can brag about his skills all he wants, and if he did nobody would care. But he's a loudmouth jackass who has taken potshots at a number of QBs in this league - usually his own - for no good reason. I won't be surprised when he turns on Romo, at some point.

#20:
There must be something wrong with the city of San Francisco. TO, Brandon Lloyd, and Darrell Jackson - all played for the Niners...

That seems to imply that none of those gentlemen displayed such behavior prior to arriving in San Francisco ...

And in the spirit of Linehan Junior ...

I've long since been fired, my son's in the game
I called him up just the other day
I said, "I'd like to work with you if you don't mind"
He said, "I'd love that, Dad, if I can find the time
You see my QB is battered and my linemen are new
But it's sure nice talking to you, Dad
It's been sure nice talking to you"

And as I hung up the phone it occurred to me
He'd grown up just like me
My boy was just like me

He said, 'Thanks for the ball, Dad, com on let's play / Can you teach me to throw,' I said 'Not today'

Beautiful reference. Were you thinking Chapin or Ugly Kid Joe? I personally find it more fitting via UKJ.

Re: 31

Trumped in the time it took me to verify my reference before posting. Nice work.

"I don’t know if you’d call it quarterback. See if the first guy’s open … ummmm … OK, I better run.�

– Browns quarterback Derek Anderson, describing the quarterbacking skills of Browns kick returner Josh Cribbs, who played quarterback collegiately at Kent State University. (Canton Repository)

Somebody get the Atlanta Falcons on the phone, Cleveland has a QB available who would fit their offense perfectly.

#22; Thanks, that was priceless and well-timed.

WRs are the glamour boys of the NFL; they make the highlight-reel plays (along with those rare runs that go more than 20 yards, and interception, kickoff and punt return TDs). I think that must have something to do with their showboating and mouthiness.

As for poor Mr. Smith - I agree with #23 and #26. You put a rookie onto the field behind a mediocre-to-bad OL, and keep changing his QB coach or coordinator, and you'll end up chewing him up and spitting him out without ever getting a chance to see whether he can play at the pro level. And the teams that will continue to do this are the ones that don't realize that an offense starts with the line (and those that have really bad talent scouts).

On the other hand, some teams have artificially high expectations of their young QBs - take my Vikings, for instance (please!). Thankfully, that 'personnel guy' who the Vikes thought they should hire, based on his SPECTACULAR resume in Miami, is already gone. But the damage is done, and Tarvaris Jackson will, at best, be a mediocre, don't-lose-the-game-for-us QB.

there is a good article on ESPN's page 2 re Alex Smith, talking about how poor the OC play calling and scheme have been and trying to make Smith into a QB he is not.

26:
eli manning. not good.

26

Actually, I remember hearing at the time of the draft that the Niners didnt' really want Alex Smith, and tried hard to trade down but it was such a weak class that nobody would do it. The Niners were then stuck with the first overall pick, which they felt had to go towards a QB. They probably could have survived under Rattay for another year.

If Alex Smith came out of college in this coming years draft class, with his same exact college numbers and no knowledge of his time with the Niners, I don't know that he'd even be a first rounder.

#28, yeah, sure, Alex, have your fun. Kick a Vikings fan while he's down, you bastard! Just wait 'til Tavaris Jackson goes to Canton! The you'll see!*

*Who knows? Adrian Peterson may get inducted, and Tavaris will attend the ceremony.

Going way back, Jim Plunkett played terrible with a terrible team in the early part of his career, and then resurrected himself with a good team. I can't think of too many other examples of a qb who stunk with a lousy team for multiple years, and then became good when surrounded by good teammates on another team.

40: Jim Harbaugh?

#40, ever look at Steve Young's statistics when he was a Buccaneer?

40: Jake Plummer? How good does he have to get?

OK, going forward from 2000 Plummer's DPAR rank with Arizona were 32, 8 (!), 45; then with Denver starting in 2003 he was 8, 11, 6, then back down to 30 in his last year. If we can figure out what happened in 2001 this looks like it might be a case of him being bad in Arizona and getting good when he gets to Denver.

I don't know if Vinnie Testaverde was ever a great QB, but he improved greatly once he left Tampa.

Dilfer was less good, but he was at least a competent QB once he left Tampa.

Throw in Steve Young and Doug Williams, and we have an interesting theory....QBs suck when they wear a red and orange pirate on their helmet.

Re: 11

Well played.

Yeah, but Young barely had a season's worth of games in Tampa. I haven't bothered to look it up, but my impression is that Doug Williams was decent in Tampa, and that Dilfer was pretty lousy everywhere. Testaverde did seem to improve a lot out of the creamsicles.

45:

Well one thing you have to admit about Shanahan's offense with Plummer: It fit Plummer EXTREMELY well. Excellent use of misdirection on roll-outs (particullarily rolling left, Plummer's 'specialty' throw). When you further consider that Denver had only a possession receiver (Rod Smith) and an erratic, overrated, ball-dropping, poor-route-running 'deep threat' (Ashlee Lelie), Plummer did an excellent job in Denver.

Isn't Rich Gannon the patron saint of quarterbacks who sucked early on, but were good with a favorable set of circumstances?

Gannon started with the Vikings, which was a playoff caliber team at the time of his departure; Gannon was actually the weak link. He was a very late bloomer, however. I don't think I've ever seen a guy improve his accuracy that much, after spending several years being very wild. I've never heard it commented on whether it was purely a simple mechanical flaw that he finally corrected, or whether it was a multitude of corrections and improvements.

Tom:

Kurt Warner has that locked down I think.

Steve Deberg. Was highly efficient in KC after being pretty pedestrian elsewhere.

Brad Johnson. On the right team he was Pro Bowl material. In the wrong setting he got benched/traded.

Steve Bartkowski got better when his team got better.

Steve Beuerlein had two fine years in Carolina.

Chris Chandler?

Rich you're right, I'm sure the other weapons help him a lot.

49, He had Shannon Sharpe as well right?

Ya'll know I was right.

1. Hasn't Crayton been here only once before, saying some standard competitive fare after the Pats game that wouldn't make him a prick at all? (Granted, he sounds like a prick this week, but league leader?)
2. DVOA doesn't say Crayton has accomplished nothing as a pro.

Re #30 & 31:
I was fine until I got to San Francisco too.

As I was I. I swear.

I started in San Fran. I think you're onto something.

It could also be argued that my truest asshattery didn't begin until I moved to the Banana Republic of Crisco.

"#

1. Hasn’t Crayton been here only once before, saying some standard competitive fare after the Pats game that wouldn’t make him a prick at all? (Granted, he sounds like a prick this week, but league leader?)"

"Defensively, I can tell you no, they're not[the real deal]. They're not (that good) at all. The only time they stopped us is when we had penalties. If that's stopping us, it is what it is."-Crayton

That sounds more like talking shit than standard competitive fare.

yeah, sure, Alex, have your fun. Kick a Vikings fan while he’s down, you bastard!

Sorry, it was just too easy. But I harbor no ill will for the Vikings. In fact, I hope they somehow find their way to the NFC Championship Game. I know, a bit of a pipe dream, but I'd really enjoy that Laphroaig. :)

Just wait ’til Tavaris Jackson goes to Canton! The you’ll see!*

*Who knows? Adrian Peterson may get inducted, and Tavaris will attend the ceremony.

You know, I'd never thought of that, but you're right, Tavaris Jackson probably will go to Canton. If only Art Monk had been given the opportunity to hand off to Peterson, he wouldn't be on the outside of Canton looking in.

For those asking what the Lewin system thought of Smith, his peak projection was 27.0 DPAR. However, in PFP it's noted that Smith entered the league at 21, so it's possible he has time to grow and surpass that projection, and that the abysmal performance of the niners in '05 makes it difficult to take his rookie season at face value.

So in other words, there was a little bet-hedging, but generally it would seem projection system thought he was not going to be a star...just a good starter.

Shouldn't more scorn be directed at Jacobs than Crayton? Crayton played well, scored a critical TD, and his team won. Jacobs, on the losing end, says he sucks. Can he read a scoreboard?

FYI--Young's record as a starter in Tampa Bay was 3-16 for a winning percentage of 15.8%. In SF, his record was 92-33 for a winning percentage of 73.6%, or an improvement of 57.8% over his TB percentage.

I'm liking the Brandon Jacobs quote.