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» Scramble Over/Unders: the Norths

The league's northern divisions pose a number of meaty questions, such as: "Is the Bears' offense due for a repeat performance?" "Why do the Lions have such pronounced splits?" and "Has Johnny Manziel made the Cleveland brass even crazier?"

27 Sep 2007

The Week in Quotes: September 27, 2007

compiled by Ben Riley

YOU'VE SEEN THE CLIP, BUT HERE'S A LITTLE BACKGROUND

"A lot of guys get nervous, some even puke before games. How you handle the nerves is important, though, and [former Oklahoma State quarterback Bobby] Reid hasn't always managed them well. He has gotten off to some extremely slow starts, putting the Cowboys in some holes. Some, they dug out of, with Reid often wielding the biggest shovel, and some, they couldn't."

-- Jenni Carlson, columnist for The Oklahoman, questioning the "intangibles" of OSU quarterback Bobby Reid, who the coaching staff had recently benched in favor of Zac Robinson

"I get sweaty palms. I get the butterflies in my stomach. I sweat a lot. I've been playing this game for 15 years. And I can honestly say every game I've played in, I've been nervous. It's not so much me being scared; I just get to a point where I start worrying about a lot of things I can't control."

-- Bobby Reid, as quoted in Carlson's column

"Or does he want to be coddled, babied, perhaps even fed chicken? That scene in the parking lot last week had no bearing on the Cowboys changing quarterbacks, and yet, it said so much about Reid. A 21-year-old letting his mother feed him in public? Most college kids, much less college football players, would just as soon be seen running naked across campus."

-- Carlson (The Oklahoman)

"That's why I don't read the newspaper! Because it's GARBAGE! And the EDITOR who let it come out is GARBAGE! Attacking an amateur athlete for doing everything right!"

-- Oklahoma State head coach Mike Gundy, reacting to Carlson's column

"Are you KIDDING ME? Where are we at in society today? COME AFTER ME! I'M A MAN! I'M 40! I'M NOT A KID! Write something about ME!"

-- Gundy

"Don't write a kid that does everything right, that's heart is broken, and then say the coaches say he was scared! THAT AIN'T TRUE!"

-- Gundy, not exactly helping Reid's cause

"Who's the kid here? Who's the kid here? Are you kidding me? That's all I've got to say. It makes me want to puke."

-- Gundy (transcript of the entire speech available from The Norman Transcript, but you can watch the magical video here)

DA BENCH

"Rex Grossman is our quarterback."

-- Bears head coach Lovie Smith, Sunday, September 23

"Rex is my guy. Rex is my guy until the end. He didn't have his greatest game [against the Cowboys], but if you ask me Rex is my guy."

-- Bears tight end Desmond Clark, Monday, September 24

"Rex is our quarterback. One-hundred percent."

-- Bears center Olin Kreutz, Monday

"He's the starting quarterback. He's the guy taking the snaps. He's the guy handing me the ball. He's been the guy every Sunday. He's probably going to continue to be the guy."

-- Bears running back Cedric Benson, Monday

"Will Rex Grossman start Sunday? Well, our evaluation process is going on right now. And if you come out to practice Wednesday, you'll have a better idea of who will be starting at all positions."

-- Smith, Monday

"Has Rex been our starting quarterback? Well, yes, I'll say that."

-- Smith, also on Monday (Chicago Tribune)

"It's not one person. I just think we need a breath of fresh air. I'm excited for Brian [Griese]. He brings a lot of experience. He's anxious to go. Our team will back him 100 percent."

-- Smith, mercifully ending the Rex Grossman Experiment and announcing Brian Griese as the Bears new starting quarterback, Wednesday, September 26

"Of course, decisions like this are not made overnight."

-- Smith (Chicago Tribune)

DA BENSON

''In one ear and out the other."

-- Bears running back Cedric Benson, describing his reaction to the attempts of the Chicago Bears' coaching staff to instruct him how to be a more effective runner. In related news, Benson is averaging 3.2 yards per carry this year. (Chicago Sun-Times)

"My junior year of college, I started getting into this need-for-speed type thing. Then it developed into, 'OK, I want to be good at this.'"

-- Benson, describing his plans to take racing-certification classes during the off-season so he can race his track-ready BMW M3

"The fastest I've ever gone? About 170 miles per hour. But on the track, there's no limit."

-- Benson

"It bothers Cedric when people are critical of him. It crushes him."

-- John Parchman, Benson's high school coach and mentor

"Who is Cedric Benson? I'm nobody in particular. I'm just a Southern boy who's old school. I like to be at home with my two Rottweilers. I like things to be real simple."

-- Benson (Chicago Tribune)

VERNON DAVIS HAS A WEST COAST STRUT THAT WAS AS SWEET AS MOLASSES

"He didn't complete the pass as a catch. You have to get two feet clearly down and make another football move. If in the process of making the catch, he gets hit and goes to the ground, then he has to hold on. When he hit the ground and the ball hit the ground, it popped out."

-- NFL referee Gerry Austin, offering a convoluted -- and almost surely incorrect -- explanation for his ruling (after video review) that a key pass to Vernon Davis was incomplete during the 49ers-Steelers game

"One foot and a toe."

-- Austin, when asked whether Davis got both of his feet down

"He [Austin] said that he had to be clear that two feet were down. I offered him my sunglasses because they're prescription."

-- 49ers head coach Mike Nolan (Santa Rosa Press Democrat)

"Don't cry about the ball and then not catch the ball."

-- Nolan, offering some unrelated advice to tight end Vernon Davis (Pittsburgh Tribune-Review)

HUMILITY, THY NAME IS SHAUN

"I have always known that teams get excited to play against my offensive line and me, because my stats have been really, really [good], so that brings out the excitement to come stop that anyway."

-- Seahawks running back Shaun Alexander, describing the statistical motivation of the defenses the Seahawks play against (Cincinnati Enquirer)

"When you get it taken away from you for so long, like I had last year -- and never having that happen before -- you're just excited to be out there and you want to go out there and do great things, even more than I did before."

-- Alexander, with characteristic modesty (ESPN.com)

BILL'S SO MEAN BUT I DON'T CARE/I LOVE RANDY'S EYES AND HIS WILD, WILD HAIR

"That's probably something I'm going to get yelled at [for] a little tomorrow. But it just kind of happened. [Randy Moss] was there, I felt like it was safe, we had the possibility to score."

-- Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker, explaining why he decided to lateral a pass to Randy Moss during the Patriots-Bills game

"Unfortunately, Randy wasn't able to finish for me."

-- Welker (joking)

"I don't know what they were doing, those two. Maybe Wes learned that in Miami. I've never seen it around here."

-- Patriots quarterback Tom Brady

"I don't think that was the best play that I've ever seen. Let's put it that way."

-- Patriots head coach Bill Belichick (Boston Globe)

QUIET STORM ASSASSIN, WILD CHILD, AND THE CEREBRAL ONE: MEET THE WASHINGTON DREADNOKS

"Rocky's the quiet storm. Fletch is like the rock in the middle. And Marcus is just a wild child -- anything goes."

-- Redskins defensive lineman Kedric Golston, describing linebackers Rocky McIntosh, London Fletcher and Marcus Washington

"You've got a quiet assassin, so to speak, in Rocky. Marcus is insane and an extremely intense player, very physically gifted. And me, I guess you could say I'm the cerebral one. Maybe a little bit of a mix of both. I want to be quiet, but there's a side of me that's like Marcus, so that's a battle within."

-- London Fletcher (ESPN.com)

PIERCE LATER TOLD HIS DEFENSE, 'THE REDSKINS ARE THE ENEMY. WADE INTO THEM. SPILL THEIR BLOOD. SHOOT THEM IN THE BELLY.'

(Remember, click here to play track nine.)

"I'm sorry I haven't been able to come talk to you guys. But I just read a book, 'Patton: How to be a better defensive leader.' General Patton was a great leader and everybody talked about him. I did finish that book, I have a lot of notes from it and I'm going to try to use them this week."

-- New York Giants linebacker Antonio Pierce, explaining why he refused to talk to the media after the Giants lost to the Cowboys in Week 2

"You know what, I was actually looking for applications from some guys who know anything about how to play defense. If there's anybody here ... I guess y'all have all the Xs and Os and answers for us and you know what our problem is, everybody knows what our defense runs, so we're asking the media and the fans: If you can please help out the New York Giants defense, we'd gladly appreciate it. Fan mail can be sent to Giants.com."

-- Pierce, mocking the media in General Patton-like fashion

"Did you write that book: 'How to cover the tight ends?' We don't have the answers in here, so I guess we're asking the fans, the media and everybody else that has the answers to help us out. Please, we are in need of it."

-- Pierce, responding to a reporter's suggestion that the defense cover the tight ends (New Jersey Star-Ledger)

MORE TANK WARFARE

"I know that I'm not a risk. I'm a highly intelligent person and I take pride in a lot of things I do in life."

-- Suspended Cowboys defensive tackle Tank Johnson

"Just like any other human being, I'm going to make mistakes and I've made mistakes."

-- Johnson

"We're going to welcome him just like guys welcomed me."

-- Terrell Owens (Arizona Republic)

"The Sports of The Times column on Friday, about the National Football League's punishment of the New England Patriots for videotaping an opponent's signals, misidentified a player whom Commissioner Roger Goodell suspended for conduct off the field while the player was with the Chicago Bears. He is Tank Johnson -- not Tank Williams, who plays for the Minnesota Vikings. (Tank Johnson signed a two-year contract on Tuesday with the Dallas Cowboys, but will not play until he completes his eight-game suspension.)"

-- Correction in the September 20, 2007 edition of The New York Times.

DON'T LOOK NOW, BUT JON GRUDEN IS QUIETLY MAKING A RUN AT HERM EDWARDS FOR NUTTIEST COACH IN THE NFL

"We have a pretty good idea of what he likes. Sometimes it's a matter of if he likes door No.3, door No.2 or door No.1. He likes all three doors, but you got to pick, which door do you want?"

-- Buccaneers head coach Jon Gruden, describing quarterback Jeff Garcia's apparent affinity for doors

"It's, 'Do you like this, do you like that, do you like this?' He has some opinions of his own. It is just an area where we have to continue to grow."

-- Gruden

"Some teams have had the same quarterback for five or six years, seven years, 10 years, whatever years. We have had our guy for two weeks. We have to continue to communicate and work through some situations."

-- Gruden

"He's a barbed-wire kind of guy. He's not the biggest, most menacing guy, but he has a bite to him."

-- Gruden (The Ledger)

AH, WHO ARE WE KIDDING -- NO ONE CAN COMPETE WITH HERM (AND LJ)

"I learned a long time ago about coaches. They're always going to do what they want to do. It's usually an ego thing rather than trying to be better or trying to get better or trying to listen to input."

-- Chiefs running back Larry Johnson, expressing his frustration over head coach Herm Edwards' determination to run him into a wall until he snaps in two

"It's just hard to change a coach's perspective or change an offensive coordinator's plays when this is what they've been used to doing ever since they came into the league."

-- Johnson

"Football is easy. It's not a chess game. It's checkers. When they're looking for the run, you pass. When they're looking for the pass, you run. When they put nine in the box, you pass. When they overload one side, you run to the other side."

-- Johnson

"A lot of times, players are looking at something way different than what coaches are seeing. They think it's this and all of a sudden they come over to the sideline and they see the pictures and they say, 'Oh, it wasn't that.' That's emotion. We've been sitting on that powder keg for about two weeks now."

-- Herm Edwards (NFL.com)

"I'm all right with that as long as you don't cross the line. It's all in a competitive environment, and it happens all the time. This has gone on in sports forever. The thing that makes it kind of unique now is there are so many cameras. Twenty-five years ago, this thing went on ... but it wasn't on television."

-- Edwards, when asked to react to Johnson's "checkers" remark

"What's happened is when you go three-and-out it's hard to get rhythm as a play caller, it really is, and that's been our problem. I think some people fail to realize we can miss a play, or there's a penalty, then what do you call? The first play of the game, we've got a guy wide-open but we don't hit it. People forget about that."

-- Edwards (Kansas City Star)

"Mike [Solari, the Chiefs' offensive coordinator] is like any other second-year coordinator who's never done the job. They learn as they go."

-- Edwards (Kansas City Star)

THE REST

"I keep the back of my head to you. You don't see the stitches back there."

-- Bengals defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan, when asked how he kept from banging his head into the wall over the Bengals' defensive performance against the Browns two weeks ago(Cincinnati Enquirer)

"I need to gain about 15 pounds and I can be an undersized tight end like [ex-Bengal Matt] Schobel was."

-- Bengals wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh, indirectly commenting on the number of times he's run shallow routes this year (Dayton Daily News)

"I didn't get to the quarterback. I suck right now. So there. There's your headline.''

-- Dolphins defensive end Jason Taylor, reacting to the Dolphins' loss to the Jets in Week 3 (Sports Illustrated)

"If I did it for Jimmy Johnson and for football, how can I show up unprepared to meet God in prayer?"

-- Shlomo (formerly Alan) Veingrad, offensive lineman for the Dallas Cowboys in the early 1990s, describing his intensive prayer preparation as an ultra-Orthodox Jew (Dallas Morning News)

"Now, is [backup quarterback] Cleo Lemon going to run down on [a] kickoff? He might. We're going to do whatever we think we need to do to win a football game. If that's what it takes, that's what we'll do.''

-- Dolphins head coach Cam Cameron, announcing his controversial "Let's See if We Can Get Cleo Lemon Killed on Special Teams" plan (Miami Herald)

"I felt like I was on the bad end of the stick. I felt like a lot of calls could have gone either way. They all went against me."

-- Falcons cornerback DeAngelo Hall, who was penalized three times for 67 yards during a critical drive in the Falcons-Panthers game. The Falcons lost, there are rumors that Hall was attacked by his own teammates after the game, and Steve Smith accused him of being a cheap-shot artist. (Winston Salem-Journal)

"Shoot, drunk guys aren't too hard to tackle."

-- Kansas City Chiefs mascot "K.C. Wolf," explaining how he was able to bring down a drunken Chiefs' fan who got onto the field (Kansas City Star, and we demand you click the link to at least see the picture)

Send your quotes to quotes-at-footballoutsiders.com, just like Mactbone did this week. HE'S A MAN! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Posted by: Ben Riley on 27 Sep 2007

91 comments, Last at 29 Sep 2007, 10:53am by Independent George

Comments

1
by mmm... sacrilicious (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:02am

"like any other second-year coordinator who’s never done the job."

I guess it doesn't take much coordination to run LJ 26 times per game...

2
by Athelas (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:02am

Re: Vernon Davis' non-catch--I saw Mike Pereira (sp?) on NFLN and he convinced me with his explanation that it was an incomplete pass.

3
by LnGrrrR (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:07am

Man... that picture IS awesome.

4
by Frick (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:08am

That picture deserves its own ESPY.

5
by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:23am

looks like a late hit to me.

6
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:25am

I have to say that the OK State coach should have controlled his temper a little better, but I have no problem with him calling out the columnist publicly. When a guy's compensation is a scholorship, getting personal regarding his relationship with his mother is a pretty vile thing to do. Actually, it's pretty out of bounds even for a professional athlete, but I'm willing to give columnists a lot more slack when they opine about guys who are cashing large checks. I mean, if it's acceptable for this columnist to be critical of a college qb, and use his private interaction with his mother as the basis of the criticism, well, I say there may be very few barriers that cannot be crossed in attacking the columnist in response, so maybe the coach actually was being restrained.

7
by Penrose 10,000 (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:25am

If you're stuck in a hole, just dig your way out!

8
by Theo, Holland (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:30am

#2 Athelas.
If it was not a complete pass, it would've been an interception.

9
by lobolafcadio (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:32am

Three things :
Pierce is great.
LJ's father is a coach isn't he ? LJ would be a better play caller than Herm "when you go three-and-out it’s hard to get rhythm as a play caller" Edwards...
The picture of the Chiefs Mascot is hilarious !!!!!

10
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:33am

Also, to illuminate the idiocy of the columnists point of view, that having a bit of a momma's boy relationship with one's mother, after reaching adulthood, precludes a man from being mentally tough enough to succeed in competitive environments, reflect on the fact that the renowned pussy Douglas MacArthur was coddled by his mother well into adulthood. This was a case of columnist using her forum to mount an ad hominem attack on a amateur athlete, which is a rotten thing to do.

11
by Theo, Holland (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:34am

"would've" should've been "should've"

12
by zlionsfan (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:38am

We have two fouls on the play.

Personal foul, excessive celebration, on the fan.

Personal foul, piling on, on the mascot.

The fouls offset. We will replay the video.

13
by mactbone (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:43am

Re 5:
You didn't see him get pushed from behind? You can't control that. You can't ask him to change in mid-air.

14
by dryheat (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:47am

It's a shame Gundy isn't an former NFL coach. Those would make a nice Coors Light ad.

15
by hooper (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:47am

Re: Chiefs mascot

The article is rather funny, too. Some other classic lines, though not necessarily quotes:

You can only imagine how Larry Johnson, who was manhandled all day (24 carries, 42 yards), felt seeing someone in a Chiefs jersey running in the open field.

The crowd erupted in the loudest cheers of the day. The Chiefs’ sideline erupted in laughter. The cheerleaders erupted in dance. There were a lot of eruptions.

Obligatory Herm reference:
In the Chiefs’ meeting room, there’s a sign put up by Edwards. It reads: “Know your role. Do your job.�

There's a lot more funny there (if you're not a Chiefs fan), but this post is long enough. So long as Herm follows his own motto, we'll be rolling in quotes until 3 weeks after Armageddon.

16
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:50am

I can't use the internet today. Where is this picture everyone is talking about?

17
by Peter Libero (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:55am

Will, I'm with you on that. While the video is kind of funny because of how intense he gets, he's probably right, it's pretty slimy. Anyway, the Mascot is my new hero, and I'm glad to see Herm not only doesn't know how to gameplan, but also can't manage his players. Coach of the year.

18
by White Rose Duelist (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:55am

I'm picking up KC Wolf for my doomed IDP league team. Think I can count him as a DL?

19
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:13pm

The mascot was great, but it still ranks second on my list of favorite moron on the field moments. When I was a kid, I think 1970, the Colts were in Baltimore, and some drunk ran onto the field, and actually grabbed the ball as the teams were huddled. The drunk made the mistake of heading toward the Colts' defensive huddle, whereupon Colts' middle linebacker, a somewhat nasty fellow, treated the drunk like he would an opposing running back attempting to catch a pass while crossing the middle. Just laid him out. If you ever get a chance to see the "America's Game" episode of the 1970 Colts on the NFL channel, Curtis and some of his teammates recall the incident, and it is pretty funny. Curtis still looks to be in pretty good shape, and he is still a bit intimidating. If I recall correctly, he says what he misses most about playing is the violence.

20
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:26pm

The Cedric Benson stuff is pretty illuminating as well. The list of guys who rely on instinct to have very successful college careers, and then discover that ain't enough in the NFL is pretty long. Unfortunately, the list of guys who don't change their behavior after making that discovery is nearly just as long. Why, exactly, did the Bears keep Benson and let Jones go? Cap hit entailed in moving Benson off the roster? Or did they actually think Benson was a better player?

21
by Scott de B. (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:29pm

I lived in Missouri for ten years, and have been to several Chiefs games, and know many rabid Chiefs fans, and nobody has yet been able to explain to me why the Kansas City Chiefs have a wolf mascot. Heck, until today I always thought it was a muskrat or a vole or something.

22
by Glazius (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:45pm

#2: Yeah, the call makes a little more sense after watching it.

Davis lands with one foot, starts to bring the other one down, but Polamalu starts him spinning before it hits. The second one doesn't come down under its own power, but he can still make the catch if he holds onto the ball until all of him hits the ground.

He doesn't, and the ball comes loose, and it would be an interception off of what is technically a tipped pass if the ball doesn't hit the ground before his arm does a jai-alai impression.

23
by Aaron N (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:45pm

Click my name for the YouTube of the mascot. True brilliance.

24
by MRH (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:47pm

Re 21 - I think when the Chiefs moved from Dallas to KC, the fan club was called the Wolfpack. the Wolf mascot derived from that. But I have no idea why they were the Wolfpack.

Re 20 - Based on their conventional stats last year, I think TJ and Benson were interchangeable. Based on their FO stats, they were about the same and you could argue, if nothing else, to keep the younger back.

TJ/Benson
Rush DPAR 25.5/17.9 (note TJ had almost twice as many carries)
Rush DVOA 5.6%/15.1%
Success rate 48%/47%
Rec DPAR -6.1/1.0 (Benson had very few passes thrown to him)
Rec DVOA -34.0%/8.3%
Catch% 77%/80%

From the outside, Benson doesn't look like a great "Character guy" or "Locker room" asset. Maybe TJ is, but there is some reason he's now on his 4th team - maybe he's not a coach's favorite.

I'm not a Bears fan or Benson backer, and I don't mean to ignore intangible issues, but based solely on-the-field 2006 performance plus age, I can see going with Benson.

25
by MRH (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:49pm

Re the KC Wolf's play -

That's what happens when you have a HoF mascot. Check link.

Also, it's always worth reading Joe Posnanski.

26
by Theo, Holland (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:49pm

Did you know: KC Wolf (the KC Mascot) is the first NFL mascot to be inducted into the Mascot Hall of Fame. Really.
.
No, Stealy McBeam will not make it. We got 5 Super Bowls, we don't need a damn mascot.

27
by Frank (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 12:59pm

re 20

Will, Jones demanded a trade. There's not really much more to it than that. It wouldn't even have mattered if had they let him be the starter this year. He wanted out.

28
by tic toc (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:14pm

I thought some of you might find this interesting, as you may know Jones soda has the non-alchoholic beverages at Qwest Field (seahawks). They just sent out an email regarding a neww seahawk collector pack. This is from the email:

So here's a tribute to the Seahawks....
a limited collector's pack of the flavors they
have tasted throughout their career.

2007 Jones Soda Limited Edition Seahawks
Collector Pack. Special flavors include:

Natural Field Turf, Perspiration, Dirt,
Sports Cream and Sweet Victory

29
by Blackthunder (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:21pm

Antonio Pierce is hilarious. I know in players vs. New york media, the players never win, but listen to some of the questions they ask. I'd come up with some great sarcastic responses myself if I was subject to that after every game too.

30
by TomC (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:35pm

Re 5:
You didn’t see him get pushed from behind? You can’t control that. You can’t ask him to change in mid-air.

ROTFL! Of course, if this sparks another thread-dominating David-Akers-as-cheap-shot-artist argument, I'm going to kill you.

31
by White Rose Duelist (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:36pm

#28 - Do they also sell Bertie Botts' Every Flavour Beans there? They have grass, which I think is the same as "natural field turf".

Glad I read this before lunch...

32
by Dired (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:38pm

#6 - Well, from the quote, it wasn't a dug-up "private interaction" - it was in a parking lot, in public. Which is different. And MacArthur aside, do you really think that, in the modern sports culture, being a momma's boy, that clearly, is value-neutral in the eyes of the other athletes? I have a hard time accepting that. He's not a kicker, he's a QB, and for good or ill that carries with it expectations, and among them is a certain macho independence.

Additionally, the coach benched him, and from the sounds of it was less than forthcoming as to why. The coach's tirade seems almost as much about someone second-guessing him rather than "attacking" an adult student. For all his claims of "come after me", the real charge seems to be he put a shaky QB in front of his team and then tried to quietly remove the problem, got caught and is trying the very ad hominem attack he's accusing the journalist of to defend himself. I.e., he she is coming after him, and this is his his way to weaseling out of it. But then I don't know the guy beyond this event - who knows?

33
by Phil (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:53pm

"do you really think that, in the modern sports culture, being a momma’s boy, that clearly, is value-neutral in the eyes of the other athletes?"

See:
Boucher Jr., Robert "Bobby"

34
by Balaji (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:58pm

#28: Is one of the new flavors Mike Holmgren's Tears?

35
by Frick (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 1:59pm

What I dislike the most about the Oklahoma St incident is apparently the reporter has no problem roasting the kid in print, but can't handle it when it happens in front of her peers.

Ever heard the phrase don't dish it out if you can't take it?

36
by Joe T. (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:13pm

I didn't know the OK columnist was a chick.

The coach's rant was funny as all get out, but counterproductive. Now all I can think is that Bobby Reid is a sissy momma's boy.

37
by Crushinator (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:34pm

The worst part about the Gundy rant is that ESPN instantly started mocking it. I think there's a lot of people out there who heard it and largely agreed with him, but it's always nice to see the Brotherhood of Sports Media band together against any attack.

38
by Brandon (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:46pm

I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could side with the columnnist in the OSU incident. Maybe Gundy could have stood to stay a little bit more composed, but based solely on how she's handled this incident, the columnnist is a repugnant person.

38
by Brandon (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:46pm

I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could side with the columnnist in the OSU incident. Maybe Gundy could have stood to stay a little bit more composed, but based solely on how she's handled this incident, the columnnist is a repugnant person.

40
by Tom Kelso (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:00pm

Someone needs to be credited for the Escape Club reference -- but this mean that Gisele Bunchen's legs are in the video - -and who's holding those flags anyway?

41
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:10pm

Dired, does that mean every interaction you have with a family member in a public place, observed from a distance, is reasonable fodder for speculation regarding your faults as a human being? I'm sorry, but merely being with a family member in a public space does not give the media legitimate reason to make wholly speculative assertions regarding an athlete's character. An athlete slaps his wife around? Sure, that's fair game, because slapping one's wife around is, clearly, extremely morally unacceptable action. Being fed chicken by one's mother? Well, it strikes me as a little weird as well, but since when is being a little weird a comment on one's character?

The writer was making a specific insinuation; that the behavior of this athlete with regard to his mother was indicative of a lack of mental toughness. Whatever one's opinion of today's sport's culture or what attitudes are prevalent in today's sports culture, that is simply an empirically stupid thing to insinuate, for historical examples abound of men who were coddled by their mothers to a degree considered abnormal, who then went on to be extremely tough-minded competitors, in business, politics, and yes, sports. Writers who insinuate things which are empirically stupid are writing badly, and the editors who don't reign such writers in are editing badly.

The coach was not very effective in his argument, and frankly it is bit of a shame, for a person skilled in hostile rhetoric could have publicly eviscerated this incompetent hack, likely leaving her a gibbering mess as the cameras rolled. Shame it didn't happen that way, but unlike a "professional journalist" a football coach's primary professional responsibility is not public communication.

42
by peachy (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:16pm

Hmm - I see a late hit and taunting, and the Wolf didn't even make the open-field tackle when he had the chance. And he's still a better defender than DeAngelo Hall.

The OKState situation is similar to the (latest) Milton Bradley incident; there are some responses that aren't justified whatever the provocation. Do the Cowboys not employ an SID? (I make no judgement on the article itself - OSU is pretty much irrelevant to me, as is any team that gets romped by a Sunbelt opponent.)

43
by mactbone (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:24pm

Re 39:
Right, because no adults should be criticized. I don't remember any outcry over Travis Dorsch being made fun of every single week in the school paper.

This is just another opportunity for some people to bash the media and act all outraged. Good job protecting all the poor children whose fragile egos can't handle any criticism.

Meanwhile, the coach gets a free pass for acting like a petulant child and deflecting all criticism over his coaching decisions and recent loss.

44
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:24pm

peachy, like I said I don't think the coach is a skilled rhetoritician, but when a "professional journalist" produces something as bad as that piece, I have no problem with a coach very publicly cutting the writer to pieces. I just wish it had been done better.

45
by Dired (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:28pm

I never read the journalist's report - I really don't care enough. Maybe she's a horrible hack or just made a big mistake this one time. But the rant itself is interesting, in that it feels scripted and incredibly deliberate - I do honestly feel this is more about the coach and "his program" than any actual empathy for the kid he benched. The journalist found a situation where the starter for a 1-A program was benched and found some low-hanging fruit. You can condemn her for taking what appears to be a cheap-shot, but the insinuation that the coach makes - that it's no one's business how the team is run and the program should enjoy media privacy when weird stuff seems to happen - seems ridiculous, self-serving and cynical. I don't see a man defending another man, I see a man defending his program, and ultimately, himself by clumsily (if loudly) attacking the journalist with the ex-starter as a convenient pawn. Your mileage may vary.

46
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:29pm

mactbone, it's crappy writing, pure and simple, and for the life of me I can't understand why people who get paid to write shouldn't be publicly humiliated when they produce crappy writing, in the same manner that the writers try to publicly humiliate athletes or coaches who perform poorly.

47
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:35pm

Well, dired, if you can't be bothered to read the column which the coach was responding to (and that's fine, of course) , I guess I don't understand why you could be bothered to form an opinion about that response, one in which you speculate about the interior state of mind about the coach.

48
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 3:45pm

By the way, dired, the coach specifically states that attacking him, the adult who is getting paid for his performance, is perfectly acceptable, and in no place does he say that how the team is run is no one's business. He does assert that there are factual inaccuracies in the piece, which I certainly am not in a position to judge.

49
by Flounder (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:03pm

I think the most logical conclusion is that the columnist and the coach are both idiots.

50
by peachy (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:28pm

re: 44

That was precisely my point - it ought to have been done better. One unprofessional act does not excuse or justify another, and Gundy should have known that. Every other head coach has the occasional problem with media coverage of his team, but you don't see Carroll or Stoops or Meyer or Tressel putting on such a ridiculous exhibition.

51
by mactbone (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:36pm

Re 46:
So, you're saying it's only the quality that matters - if the columnist was as witty as Tanier and skewered the player it wouldn't matter? Then the coach would be an idiot because he can't appreciate talent?

Anyway, you're conflating the issues. You want this to be a broader point that amateur athletes shouldn't be critized but you're also saying that this particular instance is bad because the writer is awful. So, is it the quality of writing that bothers you or is it the fact that an athlete was criticized (maybe with the distinction that play on the field is OK, but anything off is wrong)?

If we're arguing about the quality of the writing then the coach's rant is just insane - if someone writes a bad piece, you ignore it and vote with your dollar, you don't give it a ton of free publicity and make sure she learns that same lessons that Marriotti and Bayless learned (be a controversial jerk, people will read your stuff and you can make lots of money). If the argument is about critizing athletes then I don't get it because athletes are criticized all the time for everything - partying, performance, classes, etc.

52
by Pat (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:58pm

46, 51: It's not crappy writing (well, it kinda is, but I don't think that's what Will meant - "coddled, babied, perhaps even fed chicken"?!? What the hell? What moron writes like that?). It's crappy journalism. It was all opinion, with no real information, and it lambasted someone else. That's pretty much textbook yellow journalism.

I have to agree with Will there. College athletes' personal lives are absolute hands-off without their permission. They're kids. You don't know what you're going to be stirring up. Next thing you know you're making fun of some kid, only to find out he was abused or something, and he goes and jumps off a tower. Adults are supposed to be able to handle that sort of thing, especially if they put themselves in a position of public scrutiny (like a coach). But kids aren't.

53
by Led (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:59pm

Wow, that OK St. article was a hatchet job on the kid. To belittle and emasculate a college kid like that is totally offsides. The writer also makes a mockery of the concept of sports journalism by parroting a bunch of alleged rumors and speculation without giving anybody the opportunity to comment about it on the record. All in all this reads like a parody of over the top hack journalism. It's like Rita Skeeter in the Harry Potter books. Whatever you want to say about his delivery, Gundy was right about one thing -- that piece is garbage.

54
by Dennis (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:08pm

Whether or not the guy is drunk, it's pretty easy to tackle him after two security guards have taken him down and are lying on top of him.

55
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:11pm

O.K., peachy, I though your point was that it was inherently wrong for a coach to attempt to humiliate or attack a writer.

No, mactbone, I specifically wrote that if this piece had been written about a professional athlete, it still would be out of bounds, although it is less obnoxious when this sort of attack is directed at somebody who is cashing huge checks to live in the public eye. I've conflated nothing.

Next, if a writer makes an empirically stupid insinuation in the course of writing a humorous piece, that is far different from making an empirically stupid insinuation as a means of supporting the argument within a piece that is meant to be taken as serious analysis. Why on earth would one think that empirically stupid insinuations in support of what is meant to be serious analysis is competent writing? Why should writers who perform incompetently be shielded from public humiliation, any more than athletes who perform incompetently are? Granted, to publicly humiliate those who write incompetently is itself an act which requires skill, skill which the coach here mostly lacks, which was a shame. That's not the same thing, however, as saying that incompetent professional writers should be shielded from humiliation.

Finally, I also specifically stated that athletes' actions off the field, professional or amateur, could be perfectly reasonable basis for criticism and good writing, however, that's not even close to saying that everything an athlete does off the field is perfectly reasonable basis for criticism and good writing. What the writer has done here is akin to writing, "Look, that player was seen wearing ugly shoes! What a lousy competitor he is!", and it was an assertion meant to be taken seriously. This constitutes extraordinarily stupid writing. Professional writers who produce extraordinarily stupid writing, in the course of attacking other people's character, are perfectly legitimate targets for public humiliation themselves, although it should be done more skillfully than how the coach in this instance did it.

56
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:21pm

Pat, I mostly agree, but I'm a little hesitant to call anybody above age 18 a kid. We prolong childhood a little longer than we should in our society, it seems to me, while, weirdly, rushing real children into some aspects of adult culture too quickly. I have no problem having a scholorship athlete's unethical or illegal behavior off the field being examined by the media, but that isn't what happened here. This was nothing more than an ad hominen attack, disguised as analysis. This is always bad journalism, but it is particularly obnoxious when the attack is directed at someone who has not made a deliberate decision to live in the public eye as part of earning extraordinary compensation.

57
by Hey Dart (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:25pm

#14

Coach, Coach...My fried here thinks that Bud Light tastes better than Coors Light.

THAT AIN'T TRUE!

Coach, what did you think when the cashier asked you for ID when you tried to buy a six-pack of cold Coors Light?

I’M A MAN! I’M 40! I’M NOT A KID!

Coach, I saw you drinking several Bud Lights at a party last week. How would you assess your performance?

It makes me want to puke.

58
by Dean (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:37pm

The mascot isn't a wolf. It isn't a muskrat. It isn't a mole.

IT'S CHUCK E. CHEEZE!!!

59
by Parker (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 6:26pm

RE:51

Will can certainly speak for himself (and often does), but I don't think he is suggesting that an amateur athlete should not be criticized, he is suggesting that amateur athletes probably don't deserve to have their character assaulted through inuendo and speculation in the media.

You want to say that the QB for XYZ school shows little ability to read defenses and lacks the arm strength necessary to make the kind of throws that the play calling require, or that he appears to get rattled in the face of an aggressive pass rush, then that is fine by me. But when you start connecting dots the way she does in the article, well it's just a bit unseemly.

I don't think the coaches tirad was all that productive, but I think his underlying point is

60
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:04pm

The coach was not very effective in his argument, and frankly it is bit of a shame, for a person skilled in hostile rhetoric could have publicly eviscerated this incompetent hack, likely leaving her a gibbering mess as the cameras rolled.

My thoughts exactly.

61
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:21pm

#37 has it right. It's amazing how, gee, a bunch of sports media figures immediately skewer Gundy for (admittedly in over-the-top fashion) sticking up for a kid who was basically called a gutless momma's boy in print by some fourth-rate columnist. That writer ought to be out on her keester looking for a new job after a hatchet job like that...though of course, she'd get one immediately, since insulting people in print is standard fare for columnists these days.

62
by Gus (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:43pm

I have to agree with 61. Terrible writing, terrible journalism, deserved what she got. I wish more columnists got called on their BS. Instead, I'm stuck having to see Dan Shaughnessy's face on the front of the sports page every day.

63
by SB (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:48pm

"We have a pretty good idea of what he likes. Sometimes it’s a matter of if he likes door No.3, door No.2 or door No.1. He likes all three doors, but you got to pick, which door do you want?"

Somewhere, Terrell Owens nods silently.

64
by Nathan (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:56pm

The OSU coach was completely justified. I was very happy with his response.

65
by Harris (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:00pm

Since when is a 21-year-old a kid? My father had a job, a son and a a pregnant wife at that age. At 21, you can drink, sign a binding contract, elect a president and die in some foreign hellhole. One can argue about the quality of the journalism or the appropriateness of the subject matter, but don't tell me Reid should be free from criticism because he's a "kid."

66
by Harris (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:07pm

Also note, Gundy didn't exactly deny that Reid lost his job because he's a gutless mama's boy wimp, either. Or explain what were the factual inaccuracies in the piece. I get people who complain about my articles all the time and I tell everybody the same thing: I don't care if you don't like it. Tell me what I got wrong or go pound sand.

67
by Drew_BurgerMan_Bledsoe (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:28pm

That KC Wolf is like the Ray Lewis of mascots. He even jumped off the pile and celebrated like he made the play!

68
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:30pm

Well, Harris, the coach plainly stated that the two assertions in the piece were factually untrue. Neither you or I are in a postion to judge which party is more accurate here, so I haven't said much about that aspect. Also, one can't argue about the quality of the journalism, at least not reasonably. It plainly, clearly, sucks, and the people responsible for it should be publicly humiliated and ridiculed, in the same way this talentless hack sought to humilate the player in question.

69
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:37pm

In fact Harris, the way you phrased it, that it was notable that Gundy...

"...didn’t exactly deny that Reid lost his job because he’s a gutless mama’s boy wimp, either."

.....which has a real "when did you stop beating your wife?" feel to it, leads me to believe that you think this sort of writing is competent. When did you begin to produce "journalism" like this?

70
by Jerry (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:40pm

Of course, if Gundy hadn't gone off in a way that sportscasters around the country considered entertaining, nobody outside Stillwater would have any clue that a column had been written.

71
by Harris (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:40pm

I didn't say it was necesssarily competent journalism. I'm saying that a columnist made a specific charge -- Reid got benched because he's soft -- that his coach didn't refute. I just re-read the transcript and at no point did Gundy specficially challenge any of the facts (whatever one thinks of them) in that column and after a quick Google search, I didn't find anything either. All he said was "three-fourths" of the piece were inaccurate, a pretty vague charge. In fact, according to CBS Sportsline, Gundy refused to identify what he believes was inaccurate about a column in Saturday's editions of The Oklahoman "because I think it's just gone far enough."

Now, the coach is under no obligation to explain why he benched Reid. He could just use the standard, "The other guy gives us the best chance to win" defense. But he has made a spectacle of himself in claiming that he was defending a player. and that Carlson's piece was inaacurate. So, yes, I'd like to know, specifically, what Carlson got wrong. Otherwise, Gundy is just frothing at the mouth and that doesn't prove anything.

72
by zip (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:47pm

That KC Wolf is like the Ray Lewis of mascots. He even jumped off the pile and celebrated like he made the play!

NICE!

73
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 10:54pm

No, Harris, the coach said that the allegation that an action was taken because of a threat to transfer was untrue.

C'mon, just come out and say yes or no: is making a empirically stupid insinuation that an athlete who is coddled by his mother cannot be a tough minded competitor something that a professional journalist should engage in? Is there any basis for making an observation on the dining practices when a mother and son eat together, as a predictive method in regards to the son's performance on the field? Or is it something a lack-wit sportswriter engages in when her cranium is such an empty void that she decides to earn her paycheck by vomiting up ad hominem attacks instead of worthwhile analysis?

74
by Harris (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:50pm

Alright, I'll concede the one. That hardly equals "three-fourths."

But, in answer to your question, yes and no. There is a difference between a mother and son eating together and a mother feeding her adult son. Taken in a vacuum, that story is predictive of nothing. Added to the context of other stories calling Bobby Reid a milksop, it has more relevance. And I don't think Carlson said that Reid can't be a good QB because he's mollycoddled. I think she said others have called Reid soft because he's mollycoddled. She used the anecdote about his mother feeding him chicken in public as evidence, flimsy evidence though it may be, that he is, in fact, mollycoddled. From that she draws the conclusion that, despite his superior talent, he was benched for being soft, a charge Gundy hasn't denied.

One can say the assertion is unfair (and I think the logical jump is too big for the evidence) or that rumors of unknown origin aren't basis enough for a column or that such things should be off-limits for a college athlete, but one can't say Carlson is making it up out of whole cloth.

So, no, it's not great journalism and no, I probably wouldn't file something like this. That said, I don't think it's the hatchet piece you're making it out to be.

75
by josh (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 12:11am

I'm a media member, and while Gundy was over the top, I admired his loyalty for standing up to what he said.
If you listen to the entire press conference (3:20 on youtube) you can actually hear the others sportswriters clapping at the end of the speech. Most sportswriters I know supported the coach's objections, even though he was over the top.

If she'd just left the chicken part out, and lambasted the QB's crappy play I think Gundy would've just been, whatever, because he knows that the QB isn't that great. But character attacks are out of the question.

76
by josh (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 12:14am

re: harris.
good points, and unfortunately, he may be mollycoddled. But she could've written it better and used stronger examples to prove her point, if at all.

"Fools go where wise men fear to tread."
There's ways around (it was an editorial) to write the column about how Reid was pampered without using personal attacks. You can lay for-sure facts out of a case and let the reader 'read between the lines' without incurring damage if you want to prove a point about something. Without actually saying it as she did.

Unfortunately, some of the media will come to her defense, because that's what they do.
At least the sportswriters there clapped at the end. That gave me some hope--not all media people are tools.

77
by b roo (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 12:18am

Chill Will! It became unfashionable to be an OSU homer way back when Barry Sanders graduated.

78
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 1:42am

I don't care about OSU, but I do get very irritated at crappy newspaper people, and even more irritated at those that defend them or even offer a half defense. The standard dodge is what was offered above; the writer actually never asserted x, the writer merely reported that other have asserted it, which of course ignores the fact that it was the writer's choice to offer something up as stupid as how the player consumed chicken to "prove" the assertion, and even that ignores the fact that the numbskulled writer has yet to establish that there is some correlation between being coddled by one's mother and poor play on the field. It is a piece of garbage column that should cause any self respecting newspaper person to be embarrassed to have associated with his or her profession. In my profession, when I see nitwits behave in a manner which puts my profession in a bad light, I call them out. The circle the wagons mentality is unfortunate.

79
by Pat (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 3:07am

#56: To me, a kid is anyone who isn't in the 'real world' yet. Age doesn't matter. Kids are immune from stupid criticisms like that because they're still dependent on their parents, and you don't really know whose decisions they were.

And I'm still flabbergasted at how mind-bogglingly bad that sentence is. "Coddled, babied, or perhaps even fed chicken"??!?

Me: What's so wrong with eating chicken?
Reporter: No no no - being fed chicken.
Me: So if someone makes me chicken for dinner, I'm a baby?
Reporter: No no no - being fed chicken by your mom.
Me: So if my mom makes me chicken, I'm a baby?!
Reporter: No no no - your mother feeding you chicken like you were a baby.
Me: Well, why the devil didn't you write "coddled, and fed chicken like a baby"?!!?

Talk about butchering the English language.

80
by Pat (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 3:18am

and a mother feeding her adult son.

Did you read the article? He was on his cellphone. Which means he didn't have one hand free, and for all we know, he might not've had the other, either.

It's not exactly babying if you've got a kid with both hands free, and a mother shoving food in the kids' face saying "you need to eat this" and the kid eating it.

The article is a complete hatchet job. First, it never even really explains what it means by "fed". Fed can be used just as "I cooked this for you." So you have to infer what's going on there.

Second, it implies that Reid is unfit for the quarterback position because of his nerves, or lack thereof. Yet it doesn't offer any evidence that the [I]replacement[/I] quarterback [I]has[/I] nerves (it never even suggests it, which is a huge logical disconnect in the argument - in order to suggest he was axed for his pansiness, you would need to show that the replacement is less pansy).

Honestly, I could go on and on. The entire article is just utter trash. Criticising the kid for laughing with an assistant coach (logical disconnect #2: why aren't you criticising the assistant coach for also laughing? doesn't that make him a pansy too? apparently they're all pansies!)? I mean, c'mon. You only see that sort of thing...

Oh, crap. She must be preparing for a move to Philly.

81
by Mike D (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 3:23am

Without sounding as of if I'm agreeing or supporting Carlson in anyway, I think part of the reason the media has come to her defense and has been so aggravated by this 'outrage' by fans is the hypocrisy of it (note I am suggesting that is the case with posters here).

Everyday, on boards just like this, worse things are said about college athletes. On many occasions, college coaches have said worse about their own players.

Eric Gordon decommits from Illinois to attend Indiana. A high school kid. He is absolutely brutalized on scouts.com, rivals.com, and other websites from posters who will never meet the guy.

Urban Myers called his running backs 'trash' last spring. How many times have a coach at your alma mater called their kids soft (as Arizona alum, Lute Olson calls his kids this every March)? Is the difference really just that Carlson added the mother part (I ask sincerely)?

If the outrage is with Carlson making claims that are either false or unsubstantiated, I understand and agree that there's a serious question about her journalistic principles.

If this is outrage is because she wrote what she wrote about a college kid, there's something about a glass house...

82
by Pat (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 5:06am

How many times have a coach at your alma mater called their kids soft

Um. Never. If the head coach at my alma mater started criticizing kids as indelicately as that reporter did, I'd want him bounced out of there in a moment.

83
by Harris (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 8:56am

What, the kid can't wait two minutes until he gets off the damn phone to eat? He's Esau now? He might have something in his other hand? Really? Where do you see that? Or are you speculating? (Cue ominous music) And if Bobby Reid isn't coordinated enough to eat and hold a phone at the same time, he damn sure isn't coordinated enough to play QB.

Something occurred to me and I should have mentioned it earlier. Carlson is not a reporter, so arguements about the quality of her reporting are beside the point. She's a columnist. By definition, her work is opinion (and speculation and conjecture and all those other filthy words). Only she knows what constitutes enough evidence for her to form an opinion. So, while her opinion may be uninformed crap, filled with unsupportable assertions (of course, Gundy has yet to address the central assertion) and great gaps in logic, that's kind of what she gets paid to do. She's not great at it, but that's hardly a firing offense.

And what constitutes "the real world?" What happens in "the real world" that doesn't happen at college? Rape? Murder? Drug abuse? Suicide? Terminal diseases? Poverty? racism? Most of that happened in just my dorm room.

84
by AlexDL (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 10:23am

A point that hasn't been brought up yet, regarding the OSU incident, is that the paper's publisher is a well known OU supporter and that they do spend some time making fun of the OSU team pretty regularly. The particular article was no different than many others written, other than the reaction that it received from OSU's coach.

btw. This ancedotal evidence was garnered from a co-worker who follows the OSU program religiously.

85
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 10:51am

No, Harris, to be paid to put forth opinions, and to do so with such a deficit in logic and empirical support is a fireable offense, or at least it would be if your profession had any standards. If people desire to have half-baked yammering stripped of all logic or evidence, that can be obtained in any saloon where people have a high blood alcohol percentage. Your industry is in steep decline, and one of the reasons is that the product is so frequently of terrible quality. Why pay for sewage, when it is being given away free on the internet? The average poster in this forum reasons and writes better than that hack in Oklahoma does. The very fact that you think it worth considering the manner and circumstances in which a player consumed chicken with his mother's assistance, in regards to analyzing the player's performance on the field, is evidence that you really are just circling the wagons, or have the same deficits in reasoning that the ol' Okie Aristotle has.

86
by mike (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 1:17pm

that’s kind of what she gets paid to do. She’s not great at it, but that’s hardly a firing offense.

Actually, that's pretty much the definition of a firing offense.

87
by witless chum (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 1:42pm

Wow, so Cam Cameron is plundering the John L. Smith vault for ideas now?

88
by Alex (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 3:08pm

Honestly, I could go on and on. The entire article is just utter trash....I mean, c’mon. You only see that sort of thing…

Oh, crap. She must be preparing for a move to Philly.

Yeah, that seems to be the only logical explanation. I can see it now:

"Tile up the back stories told on the sly over the past few years, and you see a pattern that hasn't always been pretty.

McNabb's nerves have been an issue. A lot of guys get nervous, some even puke before games. How you handle the nerves is important, though, and McNabb hasn't always managed them well, particularly in the Super Bowl.

Then, there have been the injuries. No doubt some of McNabb's ailments have been severe, including a torn ACL that required surgery and forced him to miss several games. Other times, though, McNabb has been nicked in games and sat it out instead of gutting it out. Like in 2005, when he opted for season ending surgery on a sports hernia after week 10.

And in 2006, after his season ending injury, when he was not allowed to travel with the team to New Orleans during the playoffs, he was rumored to be unhappy with the decision. There were also rumors that he felt threatened by the emergence of Jeff Garcia, who went 6-2 as a starter after taking over for McNabb, who only went 5-5 as a starter before his injury.

'The coaches made a decision,' McNabb told our Mike Baldwin after the Saints game. 'I just have to go with it, get better and get back on the field.'

There's something to be said for not being a malcontent, but you can almost see McNabb shrugging his shoulders as he says those words. Does he have the fire in his belly?

Or does he want to be coddled, babied, perhaps even fed Campbell's Chunky Soup? That's right, he's appeared in several commercials with his mother, who feeds him soup.

A 30-year-old letting his mother feed him in public? Most NFL players would just as soon be seen running naked through the stadium.

All of this just makes you question whether, despite his superior physical talent, he lacks the necessary intangibles to lead an NFL team."

89
by Pat (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 5:43pm

Or are you speculating?

Yep. I'm speculating. You know why?

Because the reporter didn't do her damn job, and I have no idea why he was being fed chicken.

90
by Pat (not verified) :: Fri, 09/28/2007 - 5:45pm

She’s a columnist... but that’s hardly a firing offense.

Yes. Yes it is.

91
by Independent George (not verified) :: Sat, 09/29/2007 - 10:53am

Oh, crap. She must be preparing for a move to Philly.

Just think of all the articles she can write about Donovan's mom feeding him Chunky Soup.