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Where does KUBIAK differ most strongly from public opinion, and which players are most likely to disappoint their owners in the upcoming fantasy football season?

05 Sep 2007

The Week in Quotes: September 5, 2007

compiled by Ben Riley

THE LONGEST DRIVE

"I never thought the end would come like this -- with me holding the end of my life's passion in one hand and a foot long Italian sub on wheat in the other."

-- Journeyman offensive lineman Ross Tucker, who was cut by the Washington Redskins last week

"I asked Mr. Snyder's assistant if I could thank the Redskins owner for the opportunities he had given me. In his office, I choked up a bit as I said, 'Thank you so much for giving an undrafted free agent rookie from Princeton an opportunity in 2001. You really changed my life.' It's true -- the Redskins gave me my first and my last chance at my dream. In an attempt to lighten the mood I told Mr. Snyder I still had one claim to fame. 'I am pretty sure that I am the only 28-year-old Princeton grad that has been fired five times already.' He laughed."

-- Tucker

"They tell you to never look at the number of guys at your position or to not worry about who they sign and to just focus on playing your best. Yeah, right. Every time I hear a player say, 'I don't worry about any of that, I just do the best that I can,'' I chuckle. Although all of us block those thoughts out when we are on the field and simply compete as hard as we can, I find it very hard to believe that those guys never think in bed at night what may happen or what the coaches might do."

-- Tucker

"Nothing else in life can replicate the feeling of running into another man in front of 90,000 people and hitting him as hard as you possibly can."

-- Tucker

"My mom will probably hate reading this, but more than the paycheck or the camaraderie of the locker room, I will really miss the violence."

-- Tucker

"Unless you have been there, nobody knows what it is like to drive home and look your wife in the eyes and tell her that you weren't able to get the job done."

-- Tucker (read Tucker's entire essay, written at the request of Sports Illustrated's Peter King, here)

INDECISION CLOUDS MY VISION/ NO-ONE LISTENS/ BECAUSE I'M SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN/ MY LOVE AND MY AGONY...

"We've gone through the off-season, training camp and the preseason with Byron [Leftwich] as our starter, but after thorough ongoing evaluation of the entire body of work, we have made the decision that David [Garrard] gives us the best chance to win. We're naming David as our starting quarterback."

-- Schizophrenic Jaguars head coach Jack Del Rio

"This is a strong team with a solid roster and we feel that David's performance and continuing improvement warrants this decision to name him the starter. Byron has been a very important part of this team and this is a significant move to make, but it is a move we feel gives us the best chance of winning."

-- Del Rio

"There are many very difficult decisions that have to be made and this is certainly one of the most difficult decisions we've faced. But once the decision is made, we move on together with conviction."

-- Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver (Jaguars.com)

"Preseason is certainly not the time to try and draw conclusions. I caution people to not put too much stock in what's transpired in the preseason."

-- Del Rio, a few days prior to cutting Leftwich

"Everything's going to be OK. It doesn't matter if we win and play great in all four of these preseason games."

-- Byron Leftwich, also a few days prior to being cut (News4Jax)

"I'm so excited about this season. This is the year I get over the hump. When people talk about me, I want them to talk about me like I'm one of the best quarterbacks in the game.''

-- Leftwich in mid-August (Sports Illustrated)

"I learned in my first four years as a head coach just how much scrutiny is placed on the quarterback position, certainly not that way on the defensive side of the ball, and clearly I have learned over the last four years to handle that position a little differently."

-- Del Rio on Feb. 26, announcing that he was "committing" to Leftwich as the Jaguars starting quarterback this year (Pro Football Weekly)

"It's a dog-eat-dog business. We're living in the belly of the beast, and sometimes that beast has to regurgitate itself."

-- Jaguars running back Fred Taylor, reacting to Leftwich being cut (Florida Sun Times)

SAVAGE LOVE

"I'll emphasize again today, there is no Romeo Crennel watch in this building."

-- Browns general manager Phil Savage, denying that Browns head coach Romeo Crennel is on the hot seat this year

"I've said it 10 times, he's the right man for the job. There's nobody else out there that could've won more than eight to 12 games over the last two years with the roster we had and circumstances and situations that we've been through. Motorcycle accidents, injuries, all sorts of things."

-- Savage

"I felt we overachieved in '05 and underachieved to a degree in '06. Six [wins] and four is 10. Five wins a year is about where we were from a talent standpoint."

-- Savage

"To go from where we were in '04 to where we are now, you're going to go through the briar patch to get out of that mess. It was a mess."

-- Savage

"At the end of today, by 4 p.m., Tim Couch, Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren and William Green could conceivably all be out of the NFL. You talk about setting an organization back on its ear. I'm talking out of the league. That speaks volumes of where we were starting from. You couldn't take another team out there, knock off four No. 1 picks that you got nothing out of, and say they're going to go to the playoffs."

-- Savage. By the end of the day, only Warren was still under contract in the NFL (Cleveland Plain Dealer)

"You can go down the list and there are some comparisons on both sides of the coin. They were a Super Bowl team and we're perceived to be at the bottom of the barrel in the NFL, but I'm not sure there's that much difference."

-- Savage, comparing the current Browns roster to the current Chicago Bears

"When we played Denver, in my mind, the only difference was that they've had a winning tradition for a long time. They know they're going to win."

-- Savage, comparing the Browns to the Denver Broncos

"The Browns are coming at it from a different perspective. We're coming from inside of a hole and we're trying to get out."

-- Savage

"I believe we'll take a step forward this year. I really do. I just truly believe that this team is going to win. There's no question in my mind of if we are going to win. It's when we are going to win."

-- Savage (Cleveland Plain Dealer)

FOUR GAMES IN OHIO

"I'm just a football player that plays for my team."

-- Buccaneers quarterback Bruce Gradkowski, reacting to suggestions in an ESPN.com report that he may have shaved points during four games he played at University of Toledo (ESPN.com)

"The question is finished."

-- Unnamed Buccaneers public relations representative, after ESPN.com questioned Gradowski about the allegations (read ESPN.com's comprehensive investigative report here)

"I don't watch ESPN. I don't believe half the [expletive] people on the channel, personally -- no disrespect. But if Bruce Gradkowski is throwing games in Toledo, how in the hell does he lead the NCAA in passing percentages? That is a crock."

-- Buccaneers head coach Jon Gruden, apparently uninterested in the statistical concepts of "causation" or even "correlation"

"You know, these reports make me sick -- really. I don't believe [there is] any truth to it, and I'll go to my grave believing that. I hope ESPN 3 or 4 has real sources behind this story, because it has nothing to do with the kid. He's a great kid. He wants to be great. This is very uncharacteristic, in my opinion, of 'professional' journalism."

-- Gruden (Pewter Report)

COMMITMENT TO CUTTING EXCELLENCE

"Unblockable."

-- Word used by Raiders head coach Lane Kiffin during training camp to describe defensive end Quentin Moses, the Raiders' 2007 third-round draft pick

"Quentin Moses is a superstar and we stole him in the third round."

-- Raiders defensive coordinatorRob Ryan, also during training camp

"There were some hard ones and it wasn't that a guy wasn't doing everything we asked. We wish great luck to Quentin and we think he'll be a good player in this league. But at the end of looking at it all of it we had other people that could help us more. I think it shows everything that we're about here, and how competitive the field is, that a player as good as Quentin couldn't make the roster."

-- Kiffin, trying to explain why the Raiders' front office cut Moses during the trim down to the 53-man roster. Moses was immediately signed by the Arizona Cardinals.

"Also it shows that we're not worried about where a guy was drafted or how much a guy was paid in free agency. We took the best 53 players for us."

-- Kiffin, offering an alternative justification for cutting Moses

"It surprised me, to be honest with you. But that's what we felt was best for us, I suppose."

-- Raiders defensive end Jay Richardson, Oakland's fifth-round pick who will be playing in lieu of Moses (Insider Bay Area)

"What a dumb cut that was."

-- Sports Illustrated's Peter King (in this week's MMQB column)

LIKE A VIRGO, PLAYING FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME

"I have been ready for a few weeks now ... I've been ready to play for two weeks but haven't got a lot of snaps in practice."

-- Bengals offensive tackle Levi Jones, expressing his frustration over his perceived lack of opportunity during the preseason

"I get minimal snaps in practice. I've been thrown into games without much preparation. I'm spelling people."

-- Jones

"I'm a Virgo. I like to be prepared for all situations."

-- Jones (Cincinnati Enquirer)

"Levi understated how much he practiced. Maybe by one-third, so we'll move forward."

-- Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis, responding to Jones' comments

"It concerns me because it's not about Levi, it's about the team, and he realizes that. I don't want the guys to vent their frustrations to [the media] and I'm not going to change, I'm not going to vent mine to [the media] either."

-- Lewis, venting his frustrations to the media (Cincinnati Post)

EDUCATION OF THE VIKINGS HEAD COACH

"I said, 'Well, I'm really interested in your guy, so we'll have to let our guy slide.'" He [Patriots head coach Bill Belichick] didn't really care for that. He was trying to leverage. You always find out who is honest and straightforward."

-- Vikings head coach Brad Childress, describing how Bill Belichick first implored Childress not to claim tight end Garrett Mills from the Patriots over the waiver wire, and then threatened to sign a Vikings practice-squad candidate if the Vikings signed Mills. The Vikings ignored the alleged threat and signed Mills anyway; the Patriots then signed linebacker David Herron. (Minneapolis - St. Paul Star Tribune)

"I talked to a lot of people in the league over the course of the last few days. That's part of the whole process of player transactions and so forth. I'm sure that all of the coaches in the league are trying to get their team ready for opening day and the regular season, and I'm trying to do the same thing. That's what I do, and that's what all of the other coaches do, too."

-- Bill Belichick, responding to Childress's comments ( Minneapolis - St. Paul Star Tribune)

JUST HAND ME THE BALL AND DON'T TRY TO THROW IT, OK?

"Guys have been behind Joey [Harrington]. I know people question his leadership or his ability to get the job done. He doesn't have to go out and win games. He has enough playmakers to go out there and do that. Don't lose games, play within yourself and let other guys win games."

-- Falcons running back Warrick Dunn, describing his team's tepid strong support for Joey Harrington

"As a quarterback, yeah, I do because it's my job to get in the huddle and tell 10 other people what to do on that field. When they have a question they come to me, and I need to be ready to give them the answer. I feel very confident with that, but I'm stepping into a new team, and the reality is that I'm going to need to work my way into it."

-- Joey Harrington, when asked if he felt he had taken ownership of the Falcons (Atlanta Journal-Constitution)

THE REST

"God told me this year that the prayers are going to work."

-- Sister Martha Carpenter of St. Peter Indian Mission School in Bapschule, Arizona, describing God's apparent support for the Arizona Cardinals this year (Arizona Republic)

"And now, the time has come for you to pay -- to pay for the many injuries you caused me."

-- Demand of 82-year-old Ruby Y. Young in her October 2006 letter to Bart Starr, seeking $2 million to prevent her from revealing details of an alleged affair she had with Starr in 1960. Young was sentenced last week to one year's probation. (ESPN.com)

"I don't have a Facebook. I've seen it. It's kind of funny. I laughed. I don't know who did it or why. They did do it."

-- Patriots running back Laurence Maroney, denying any connection to the Laurence "Kool-Aid" Maroney Facebook page that featured, among other things, Maroney kissing another man on the cheek. (SouthCoastToday.com)

"It would have been foolish to throw away the shield. It may sound hokey, but we treasure it and look to protect it, and so we decided to stay with it."

-- NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy, describing the "evolutionary" redesign of the NFL shield logo (McCarthy quote courtesy of interview with Football Outsiders; graphic of new NFL logo available here via USA Today)

"I'm just really worried about fitting in and making sure I don't let this team slow down because of me."

-- Randy Moss (Boston Globe)

"Somehow I always seem to be the story. During the year, I'm the story. When the season's over, I'm the story. When nothing is going on, I'm the story. I don't know why ... I never know. And you'll never have the answer."

-- Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb (Yahoo! Sports)

"A lot of things went wrong for me collectively and as a team."

-- Giants quarterback Jared Lorenzen, explaining his poor performance during Big Blue's final preseason game (New York Post)

Send quote ideas to quotes-at-footballoutsiders.com. And remember kids: Only you can prevent forest fires. Only you.

Posted by: Ben Riley on 05 Sep 2007

51 comments, Last at 10 Sep 2007, 12:10pm by Sid

Comments

1
by James, London (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 10:55am

WHERE'S HERM?

I refuse to believe he said nothing quotable this week

2
by sam (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:12am

"You couldn’t take another team out there, knock off four No. 1 picks that you got nothing out of, and say they’re going to go to the playoffs.�

Hm. Jacksonville... R. Jay Soward, Leftwich are all out of the league and I'd say that Reggie Williams and Matt Jones haven't contributed the way they thought Jacksonville thought they would (and could soon be out of the league, who knows?). They've posted a considerably better record than the Browns and in fact have gone to the playoffs recently.

3
by Paralis (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:21am

2:

The most obvious difference between when the Jaguars made the playoffs recently and when they didn't being whether or not Leftwich was healthy, of course.

4
by princeton73 (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:33am

A lot of things went wrong for me collectively...�

– Giants quarterback Jared Lorenzen

in Lorenzen's case, this is very apt

5
by James (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:39am

Hey sam -- what you wrote does not make sense. Matt Jones and Reggie Williams have JOBS in the NFL. By the end of the week, Byron Leftwich will also be employed -- in fact it sounds as if Baltimore may want him to be McNair's heir apparent. I don't know who Soward is, but last I heard, three out of four is better than zero out of four.

No one wants Tim Couch. No one wants William Green. Courtney Brown couldn't be in a game more than 10 minutes without getting hurt and nobody wants him because of it. And Gerard Warren is on his way out. No team -- the Jags included -- has made the draft mistakes that the Browns have made and also posted decent records.

6
by JCRODRIGUEZ (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:46am

Faith No More RULES!!!!...oh, and where is Herm???

7
by Fnor (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:00pm

Primary difference between the Browns and the Bears? Two LBs and an 'N' instead of an 'A.'

Poor Brownies.

8
by sam (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:03pm

hey james--

R. Jay Soward was the Jaguars' draft pick in 2000 (before you say that's too long ago to count, Couch was drafted in 99 and included in Savage's comments).

The Jags got nothing in return for Leftwich. He does not have a job today (apparently the criterion for Savage).

Warren has 19.5 sacks. Matt Jones is not starting for Jacksonville and is also consistently hurt. He and Reggie Williams have combined for 14 TDs. If they were not first round picks they likely would not have jobs, and the fact is that they got beaten out of the starting lineup by a 4th rounder in Ernest Wilford and a castoff the BROWNS didn't even want! Seriously, if the Jaguars cut Matt Jones or Reggie Williams, would teams be knocking down their doors? No.

I'm saying that you can get little compensation for first round draft picks who leave, and little production, and win. It's difficult, but not impossible.

9
by Adam H. (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:07pm

“A lot of things went wrong for me collectively and as a team.�

So there is more than one person in there? Battleship Lorenzen must have a crew, I guess.

10
by Patrick Bateman (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:22pm

The Real Thing was only Faith No More's second best album, behind Angel Dust. I salute your outstanding taste in musical references, FO!

11
by Independent George (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:31pm

When Brezhnev took office, he found two envelopes waiting for him in his office. The first had a note on it from Kruschev; it said, simply, that if he ever found himself in a desperate political situation from which there seemed no escape, he should open the first envelope. If he found himself in such a situation again, he should open the second.

Years rolled by, and Brezhnev found himself in exactly such a situation. Desperate, he opened the envelope, and found a small note which said, "Blame everything on me." He did, and it worked perfectly. His career was saved.

Later on, he found himself once again in dire straits, and opened the second envelope. Inside was another, equally brief note: "Write two letters."

I don't know if this story is true (in fact, I'm almost certain it's not), but it seems appropriate.

12
by Paralis (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:35pm

re: 8

Except to include Soward, you have to forget about 2001 1st-rounder Marcus Stroud and 2002 1st-rounder John Henderson. Which, even if you do, doesn't establish the Jaguars as a team that has found success without Leftwich.

There might be a winning team with as little draft success as the Browns, but the leaps you have to make to suggest the Jaguars are it are pretty incredible.

13
by db (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:44pm

The difference between the Browns and the Jags is average draft position. Butch Davis passed on most of the top players in the game to draft his losers. Add in the trade for position to get Winslow who missed 28 games in his first two seasons and Davis is my nominee for worst clown ever.

14
by MJK (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:45pm

Hmmm, good stuff this week.

I hope Quentin Moses goes on to be a star. I feel bad for Kiffin and Ryan, but it sounds like this was yet again a case of Al Davis thinking he knows better than his coach and personnel people how to be a coach and personnell person, and I love it when he gets proven wrong (the way I used to love it when Millen screwed up, but now it's just kind of sad. Watching the Raiders screw up, on the other hand, never gets old). Does anyone know any more details about the Moses cut?

The Childress-Belichick thing also interested me. Interesting what goes on in these waiver wire talks...and what is it about the Vikings where they get involved in these vendetta personnell moves?

15
by Harris (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:54pm

RE: Ross Tucker

I know a guy who's going into his sixth year. He's already been with three teams. He's a career special teamer who was once cut by Detroit(?!) The money is good, but I couldn't handle the uncertainty of the lifestyle. He could lose his job any day between August and January, every year somebody younger and cheaper is angling for his job and he usually doesn't have a contract at the end of the sesason. I honestly don't know how he does it.

16
by 32_Footsteps (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 1:16pm

A week without Herm is like a week without sunshine.

As for McNabb's quote... wait, he's the quarterback of a team in a rather sports-crazed city with a rabid and extremely pessimistic fanbase, and he doesn't know why he's always the story? I'm a big McNabb backer, but come on, Donnie. I know you're not stupid. You should have figured this one out already.

17
by Thomas (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 1:34pm

To Donovan McNabb:
You're always "the story" because you bitch and moan at every opportunity, then you get hurt and start it all over again. When Andy Reid calls nonstop pass plays, audible to a run from time to time, so the defense won't know what's going to happen. Tell your mom to stop bitching. Tell your dad to stop bitching. And stop bitching yourself.
Grow up.
Sincerely,
Thomas

18
by dryheat (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 1:40pm

I’m saying that you can get little compensation for first round draft picks who leave, and little production, and win.

True, but I don't think that was the point. I think the point was drafting guys who aren't talented enough to remain in the NFL with two picks at #1 overall, a #2 overall, and another in the top 20.

All teams have cut or lost as a free agent or traded first rounders before. But very few, or maybe none, had to cut so many premium picks, with corresponding premuim salary cap hits, because they couldn't make it in the league.

19
by Independent George (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 1:51pm

#17 - It's funny, but I remember a time when the big knock on McNabb was that he was too quiet, and that he would never succeed unless he was more vocal in leading the team. I also remember him going back out to finish a game after fracturing his foot, and trying to finish out the season with a hernia, without ever complaining about either.

As a Giants fan, I can only hope he bitches & moans enough to get cut so we no longer have to face him twice a year. Or, better yet, he signs with my own team and lets the idiot Iggles fans truly appreciate what they once had, in the only way that they can understand.

20
by Tracy (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:05pm

The reality is that teams that miss on as many high draft picks as the Browns (and Lions) have missed on, generally are poor evaluators of talent. This means that they are also more likely to miss on free agent signings, and more often than not will find themselves on the losing end of trades. This has been Cleveland's problem. It's not just the bad drafting, it's the whole player evaluation process they had in place.

The problem with Savage's comment is that he identified busted draft picks as the cause of Cleveland's woes, when it was merely a symptom of the cause of Cleveland's woes.

21
by mactbone (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:15pm

Re 18:
It's not just that they got cut. It's that teams barely gave them a second look and they're already out of the NFL. I guarantee that Matt Jones would get at least one more try at being a third wr by a good number of teams in the NFL if he were cut today.

The other point with Cleveland was that those were their first four first-round picks.

22
by emcee fleshy (sd/atl) (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:15pm

I don’t watch ESPN. I don’t believe half the [expletive] people on the channel, personally — no disrespect.

None taken, I'm sure.

Also - 6 & 10. Finally, a website that doesn't make me feel old!

23
by Pio (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:19pm

Here's a dose of Herm, from his Sept 4th press conference:

"Now, our offense will have to gel. Will it be a slow-starting? I don’t know. We haven’t played yet. I’ll answer that after we play. When we score seven points I’ll say we’re slow starting. If we score 21 points, I’ll say, ‘whoa, we scored a lot of points.’ 21 points is a lot, 30 points isn’t a football game. That’s Arena Football. We’re talking about real football.�

[hat tip to a broncos message board]

24
by mawbrew (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:54pm

Re: 20

You're right, but I think Savage's comments are at least acceptable 'shorthand'. The Browns during the Davis (especially) and Clark eras were equally bad in Free Agency.

Butch Davis is pretty reviled by Browns fans (and rightly so), but as a GM (particularly with regard to the draft) Dwight Clark was in a class by himself. 11 draft picks in 1999, 0 left in NFL. 13 picks in 2000, 1 (Northcutt) left in NFL. Compared with this, Davis was a draft guru.

25
by sam (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:54pm

20:
That's what I'm getting at and what James and Paralis missed. Savage said basically if you take away 4 of any team's first-round draft picks, it's next to impossible to win. I listed 4 #1 Jacksonville draft picks which are either complete busts (Soward) or otherweise not with the team (Leftwich) and for whom the Jaguars received no compensation. The two others I listed are below-replacement level players and are not significantly better than an undrafted PS guy from last year (Sharon) and a 7th-rounder htis year (Broussard) and a castoff from the aforementioned Browns.

The point is, Savage's statement doesn't hold water. I'm not trying to say the Jags are equally inept at drafting. I'm saying that Savage's nonsense about four first-round guys who are not contributing to your team does not excuse losing.

26
by mawbrew (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:59pm

Did anybody else find Gradkowski's reaction to the suggestion that he was shaving points a little concerning? That's the reaction I would expect from a guy just waiting for the evidence demonstrating his guilt to be made public.

If there is evidence he shaved points (in college) I would have to believe his NFL career is over. Maybe that's why Gruden kept 4 QBs.

27
by mactbone (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:02pm

Re 25:
You keep counting Leftwich but he was just cut. He contributed to their wins when he was there - let's see how they do without another first round pick before we say he was irrelevant.

Again though, the point is not any four first-round picks it was the first four first-round picks. The first four years of the franchise were basically wasted. At least the Jags still have Stroud, Henderson and whoever else. The Browns have five of their own counting this year's draft.

28
by mawbrew (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:20pm

Re: 25/27

Said another way, the Jags had an existing roster that helped them 'absorb' some draft misses. Further their misses weren't consecutive as there were at least a few hits mixed in along the way.

But again I agree with the earlier point that it was more than just those four players. I think Savage was just trying to use them as an obvious point of reference.

29
by Harris (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:20pm

#19

Some Eagles fans are never so happy as when they're complaining. Those are usually the same bulletheads who don't know how good we've had it with McNabb and are still bitter Reid didn't take Ricky Williams.

30
by Tracy (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:22pm

I just read the article at espn.com about the point shaving scandal, and in context, the Gradkowski quote looks a lot more like a guy trying to defend himself but being cut off from comment by the Bucs PR staff. I think it's way too early put him in a box with Art Schlichter.

31
by db (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:25pm

The thing about Butch is that his own staff, including security warned him about these picks and he made them anyway. He passed on LT who was rated #1 by his own scouts and he overruled security on Green. There was an excellent article on SI about it earlier in the off season.

32
by mawbrew (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:28pm

Re 14: Given that Al Davis was the guy that drafted Moses, I would think his bias would be to keep the guy rather than cut him. Seems more likely to me that the coaches would have to convince Davis to let the guy go rather than the other way around.

The only think surprising about the Childress quote was that he made the discussion public.

33
by Nathan (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:31pm

Our debt to you is great Pio.

34
by Pacifist Viking (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:32pm

Reggie Williams is no bust: he's a good blocker! Right? Right?

35
by JJcruiser (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:43pm

23: Sweet! They should have posted that.

I'll add to the Herm Quotables, all courtesy of the Kansas City Star:

Herm, discussing whether they can stop Houston's offense (which is apparently the same as Denver's):

“Knock on wood, we played Denver twice last year. [Houston] run[s] Denver’s offense. We have an idea of what they’re going to do. Now, can we stop it? I don’t know. But we’ll find out.�

Herm, even less optomistic about his own offense:

“I wish we were ahead of where we are right now, but we’re not,� Edwards said. “You can’t do anything about it. You’ve got to line up, and you’ve got to go play.�

Herm, discussing how injuries and playing time affects his team, but apparently forgetting that Huard threw 11 TDs and only one INT, and went 5-3 during his starts:

“A lot of it has to do in the offseason with how many players offensively are together. That’s what hurt us last year, too. We got some guys nicked. They didn’t play a whole lot in the preseason, and that’s similar to this preseason. We had a lot of guys that all of a sudden didn’t play. We had a quarterback (competition) and guess what? Damon Huard didn’t play a lot.�

36
by mawbrew (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 3:59pm

Re: 30

Thanks for pointing me to the full article. In context, Gradkowski's (attempts at) responses make a little more sense.

37
by fiddycentbeer (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 4:13pm

Re #2 and forward.

The Trade Value Chart assigns the following values to the CLEV picks Phil Savage mentioned:

Tim Couch, 1.01: 3000 points
Courtney Brown, 1.01: 3000 points
Gerard Warren, 1.03: 2200 points
William Green, 1.16: 1000 points.

That's 9200. We could toss in Jeff Faine who is still in the League, but not with CLEV. His spot, 1.21, is worth 800. Faine was taken in what remains their all-time low R1 slot. Since then, they've drafted 6th, 3rd, 13th and 3rd. Not good.

It is true that the Jags haven't gotten maximum value from their R1, Stroud and Henderson excepted. However,it is not fair to compare low R1 picks, like Soward, or mid-R, like Jones, with the CLEV elite. Here are TVC values for the Jags picks mentioned:

Soward, 1.29: 640
Leftwich, 1.07: 1500
Williams, 1.09: 1350
Jones, 1.21: 800

4290, which is less than half what CLEV squandered. 2 of those 4 are with the team. My bet is Leftwich will be back in the League Week 2. He is not in the League now because, as a vet, his salary is guaranteed if he's on a Week 1 roster.

We might toss in Fernando Bryant, 1.26, the same year as Couch. Like Faine, Bryant is no longer with his team of origin. He is with Detroit, where he's appeared in 22 games in 3 seasons. Excellent.

Anyway, by TVC calculations, Bryant or Soward are closer to Kevin Johnson or Dennis Northcutt; each 590, at what was then 2.32. Or Mercedes Lewis, probably; 1.28.

It can be argued that TVC over values the elite picks. That descends 400 points per, picks 1 thru 4; 100 points per picks 4 thru 8; then 50 thru 21 and 20 thru 31. From 31 thru 60, it drops by 10 per.

However, you'll see, if you look, that rook signing bonuses follow the TVC profile, more rather than less.

38
by fiddycentbeer (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 4:26pm

Detroit, TVC-wise

Craig Claibourne, 1.09: 1350
Charles Rogers, 1.02: 2600
Joey, 1.03: 2200
Mike Williams, 1.10: 1300

7450, far more than JAX (and with fewer players remaining on the roster. Less than that CLEV. quartet Phil mentioned, but in the neighborhood. It's fair to say no team has done less with 4 top 10 picks. R1A, as the scouts say.

Historic note: Claibourne was drafted the same year as Couch. Next season, Detroit spent 1.20 on the immortal Stockar McDougle.

39
by sam (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 4:36pm

37 and others:

I DIDN'T MAKE THE COMPARSION! Savage did! My statements are in direct response to "You couldn’t take another team out there, knock off four No. 1 picks that you got nothing out of, and say they’re going to go to the playoffs.�

If you want to say the Jags got something out of Leftwich, well the Browns "got something" out of Couch. It's not like these guys never played for the Browns. Whatever criteria Savage uses in that quote could be loosely applied to Jacksonville, who has had more success.

THEREFORE, there is more to it than bad luck with first round draft picks.

40
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 5:04pm

The point isn't valid because the Jags busts aren't consecutive, and Leftwich wasn't a bust. Period. Can we drop this now?

Most interesting quote in this issue:

“I’m just really worried about fitting in and making sure I don’t let this team slow down because of me.� - Randy Moss

Talk about a total 180.

41
by fiddycentbeer (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 5:44pm

40: Not quite yet. Sorry.

39: Savage's comments seem intended to justify the Brown's poor performance under his direction. Nothing wrong with that, per se. It is well established that Butch Davis was an idiot.

I believe Savage meant to suggest the previous CLEV braintrust blew 4 elite picks, or, really, 3 and Greene. It is true he didn't say that. He should have, per the TVC info previous. Detroit's sad sage tends to support his point.

IMO, your comparison with JAX (and that belongs to you, not him) is skew in that 2 of your 4 "busts" remain with the team, and, typically, JAX's picks were lower than CLEV's.

Towards yours, consider the St. Louis Rams, circa 1999. They won it all with former street free agent Kurt Warner heading the O and former stree FA London Fletcher heading the D. Good thing too since:

Jerone Bettis, 1.10 1993, was with Pittsburgh.

Wayne Gandy, 1.15 1995 was with Pittsburgh.

Lawrence Phillips, 1.06 1996 was out of football, or knocking around Canada.

Eddie Kennison 1.18, 1996 made no contribution. I do not recall whether he went home that year, or went to KC, or both.

Anyway, that's 4 R1 picks all in sequence, so answering #40's objection. All are within the 8 year window Savage cobbled up.

It is true none were top 5 players, but Savage didn't make that stipulation (overtly). Obviously, the sum is a far lower TVC value than the CLEV quartet but: 1) this is a point that seems irrelevant here and 2) again, Savage didn't make that stipulation.

Under the SAvage rules, well: hat team didn't merely contend; it took the entire enchilada. With all due respect: that seems a stronger support towards your point, #3, than, say, current day JAX's struggles towards the pinnacle that is elimination in the wildcard rounds.

42
by fiddycentbeer (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 5:49pm

Oops.

Bettis was taken in '93 but Gandy was taken in '94, not '95 as typed previously.

Either way, Kevin Carter intervened between that pair and Phillips/Kennison of '96. Therefore, it is not quite so that the world champion St. Lou Rams got nothing from 4 consecutive R1 picks. they got nothing from 4 of 5 within the, say, Savage window.

43
by Nathan (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 6:20pm

Footballoutsiders, the only website that can take an off the cuff basically correct assessment by a G.M. and analyze it through multiple different angles.

I'm waiting for the VOBD or Value Over Butch Davis statistic.

44
by JoshuaPerry (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 9:06pm

I don't know why Savage is complaining, the Texans are following the Browns model for drafting.

45
by Rick (not verified) :: Wed, 09/05/2007 - 10:07pm

#17/19/29:

McNabb hardly ever, IF EVER, complains or bitches. I am shocked anyone would suggest that. He is a great team leader, to the point that Freddie Mitchell called him "a company man". In a game like this, that SHOULD be a compliment.

He's the story because other people MAKE him the story. His mom, TO, Mitchell, injuries, etc. He's never once put himself out there to be a cover boy/story. Other people put him out there.

And while Philly, like EVERY city (including NYC, where I live and have to put up with Vinny from Queens), has buttheads who think they know better, it isn't the fans who've done it. Sure, Philly has a rabid fanbase, but hardly pessimistic. They do feed on their own when times get tough, but they are incredibly supportive when things are good. But they are a knowledgeable fanbase, in my experience. More so than most of the idiots I hear on WFAN up here.

46
by Paris (not verified) :: Thu, 09/06/2007 - 2:12am

Oh, what the hey...

Chicago Bears 1st round picks 98-03:

1998 Curtis Enis (5th overall)
1999 Cade McNown (12th overall)
2000 Brian Urlacher (9th overall)
2001 David Terrell (8th overall)
2002 Marc Colombo (29th overall)
2003 Michael Haynes (14th overall), Rex Grossman (22nd overall)

Besides Urlacher, that list sucks. Yet they won the NFC last year. Part of the reason for this is that the Bears have "filled in" these busts with pretty good free agent signings since 2004.

Thomas Jones (2000, 7th overall)
John Tait (1999, 14th overall)
Muhsin Muhammad (1996, 43rd overall)
Adewale Ogunleye (2000, undrafted)

I think any draft record more than four years old is pretty much irrelevant with respect to the current fortunes of a franchise.

47
by Kibbles (not verified) :: Thu, 09/06/2007 - 4:42am

Here's a fun one. How about the Denver Broncos? From 2000 to 2003 (four straight drafts), you're looking at Deltha O'Neil (got moved to WR and then dumped), Willie Middlebrooks (got traded and was cut within a couple of weeks), Ashley Lelie (with his 3rd team in 3 years), and George Foster (benched and then traded). Go back two more years and you add Al Wilson (obviously a great pick) and Marcus Nash (4 career receptions). That's 4 busts in 4 years, or 5 busts in 6 years (whichever you prefer)... and yet, from 2000 to 2006, Denver has posted 70 wins vs. 42 losses (62.5%) and is the only team in the league without a single losing season over that span.

Hitting on your first rounders is obviously great, but there are plenty of other ways to build a team. Denver's combined tremendous late-round draft success and an aggressive approach to free agency with front office stability and high quality coaching to produce model results despite a horrible record on high-round picks.

48
by Poseidon (not verified) :: Thu, 09/06/2007 - 11:28am

8. Now all the Jaguars have to do is win for you to be correct.

49
by MilkmanDanimal (not verified) :: Thu, 09/06/2007 - 5:51pm

I would find it very, very funny for a QB as crappy as Bruce Gradkowski to be the center of a major gambling scandal. I suspect the investigations of Brooks Bollinger and Andrew Walters to follow shortly.

50
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 09/10/2007 - 3:57am

“Now, our offense will have to gel. Will it be a slow-starting? I don’t know. We haven’t played yet. I’ll answer that after we play. When we score seven points I’ll say we’re slow starting. If we score 21 points, I’ll say, ‘whoa, we scored a lot of points.’ 21 points is a lot, 30 points isn’t a football game. That’s Arena Football. We’re talking about real football.�

ok, Herm. What if you score 3 points against the Houston Texans? Then what?

51
by Sid (not verified) :: Mon, 09/10/2007 - 12:10pm

RE: 46

Ogunleye wasn't a free agent signing. He was a trade. Marty Booker and a 3rd rounder for him, I think.

Plus, I don't think signing Muhsin Muhammad has been a big reason for their success.