Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Most Recent FO Features

HundleyBre15.jpg

» Futures: UCLA QB Brett Hundley

Beyond the immediate considerations of Hundley's potential, the quarterback's tape raises larger questions about the position.

04 Aug 2008

The Offseason In Quotes

compiled by Vince Verhei

THE MOST IMPORTANT STORY IN MANKIND SINCE THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE OPPOSABLE THUMB

MARCH 6

"Once he makes it through that first year, he'll be OK after that."

-- Former Packers coach Mike Sherman, explaining that the first year of retirement would be the hardest for Brett Favre

"We've always seen a lot of great, great athletes who decide to try that one more year and it's a disappointment. I've always felt badly that Reggie [White] came back and played that year at Carolina because he wasn't the same Reggie White. And I think it'd be very sad to see that this wasn't the same Brett Favre. He has been so magnificent. He went out on top: great season, great team record. It's a great way for him to exit and add to his legacy."

-- Packers chairman emeritus Bob Harlan

"I know I can play but I don't think I want to. It's been a great career for me, but it's over."

-- Packers quarterback Brett Favre, announcing that he was retired, done, finished, complete, gone

"As they say, all good things must come to an end. I look forward to whatever the future may hold for me."

-- Favre, saying something he probably regrets in hindsight

"I promised I wouldn't get emotional ... I've watched hundreds of players retire and you wonder what that would be like. You think you're prepared ..."

-- Favre, weeping

"I hope that with every penny [the Packers have] spent on me, they know it was money well spent. It wasn't about the money or fame or records. I hear people talk about your accomplishments and things. It was never my accomplishments, it was our accomplishments."

-- Favre

"I'm going out on top. Believe me, I could care less what other people think. It's what I think, and I'm going out on top."

-- Favre

"I don't even want to think about next year. Will I watch games? I'm sure I will. Will I be involved? I always made the joke I'd be here for an honorary coin toss. Well, that time may come, so I may be back for something like that. But as far as giving advice, I don't think that will happen."

-- Favre, who should have thought about next year (ESPN.com)

APRIL 17

"The season-opening game is always an exciting event, and now we're very pleased to add the retirement of Brett's No. 4 to that evening. It will make for an electric atmosphere at Lambeau Field, as well as a great opportunity for our fans around the country to share in it while watching the game on the national broadcast."

-- Packers President and CEO Mark Murphy, announcing the retirement ceremony for Brett Favre's jersey in the season opener against the Minnesota Vikings on Sept. 8

"Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy and I looked at the entire schedule and felt the first game would be an ideal time to have the event. I spoke with Brett, as did Ted and Mike, about which game to choose. Ultimately, through our communications, we decided the first game would work great."

-- Murphy

"I guess the best response would be, right now no."

-- Packers quarterback Brett Favre, confirming to the Biloxi (Miss.) Sun Herald that he was retired, kinda (ESPN.com)

APRIL 25

"There are always second thoughts, but that's not saying I am coming back. It's never a clear-cut decision. It's something I can't expect everyone to understand. No, there's no perfect time."

-- Favre, after being named the cover model for Madden 2009

"Some of our guys play Madden better than they play on Sundays. And they spend more time talking about playing Madden."

-- Favre (ESPN.com)

JUNE 20

"Give me my helmet or give me my release."

-- Favre, in a text message to McCarthy (ESPN.com)

JULY 2

"He's felt like that for the last couple of years, that the Packers didn't really want him back. But nothing's been said. You know it's just been bits and pieces throughout the last couple of years, things that would come up, and it just didn't seem like they went out of their way to keep him. It was kind of like, 'You're done.'"

-- Brett's mother Bonita Favre to Milwaukee TV station WITI (ESPN.com)

JULY 3

"It's all rumor."

-- Favre, to the Mississippi Sun Herald, concerning the possibility of a comeback

"I've talked to Brett and I know he has the itch to come back and play. If he will or not, I don't know. But I know he's feeling he wants to play."

-- Packers defensive back Al Harris, on ESPN's NFL Live

"As a veteran and as a leader of the team, I would welcome Brett with open arms."

-- Harris

"We embrace Aaron. We support Aaron. Aaron is our quarterback. Brett is retired, but if he wants to come back, there will be some guys that wouldn't mind it."

-- Harris, showing the kind of backpedal that once made him one of the NFL's best corners

"We value Brett's legacy, we think he values it, and we'd want to protect that. Brett's a high-quality person and he's not going to push it that far. He'll do the right thing [and stay retired]. This was almost predictable, the idea that Brett would get the itch to play as we get closer to the season."

-- an anonymous source with the Packers (ESPN.com)

JULY 12

"I'm not Brett Favre. And if they're wanting me to be the next Brett Favre, I'm not going to be him. I'm Aaron Rodgers. That's who I am."

-- Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers, pulling the sword from the cheese and establishing himself as the starter in Green Bay

"I'm in a good situation. I've got a great team around me. A lot of people are focusing on what I'm going to do -- it's what the team's going to do, really. I'm an important part of that. I know my role and I need to play it well."

-- Rodgers (ESPN.com)

"Brett earned and exercised the right to retire on his terms. We wanted him to return and welcomed him back on more than one occasion ... Brett's press conference and subsequent conversations in the following weeks illustrated his commitment to retirement. The finality of his decision to retire was accepted by the organization. At that point, the Green Bay Packers made the commitment to move forward with our football team."

-- A statement released by the Packers after Favre asked by letter for his unconditional contractual release

"There's nothing I can tell you about the situation."

-- Rodgers (ESPN.com)

"We've communicated that to Brett, that we have since moved forward. At the same time, we've never said that there couldn't be some role that he might play here. But I would understand his point that he would want to play."

-- Packers General Manager Ted Thompson, saying the team does not intend to grant Favre his release

"I don't want to deal in hypotheticals. Brett is still retired. I know that there has been a lot of publicity about him being released, but if he applies for reinstatement, he will go back on the Green Bay Packers active roster and we will deal with it then."

-- Thompson

"We were going to leave the owners' meeting [in West Palm Bech, Fla.] a day early and fly to Hattiesburg with the idea of sitting down and talking to him about coming back to the team."

-- Thompson, speaking about plans to visit Favre in late March to discuss a comeback. Favre canceled the meeting

"... That was the first time, July 8, that I'd ever heard him say [he was committed]. And he continually, from [June] 21 to July 8, told James Campen that he was not going to play. So that's a pretty important piece of the puzzle."

-- Packers Coach Mike McCarthy

"We don't know where everything is going to go. It's been a distraction. It's been a distraction for our fans. I'm trying to stay steady and do the right things for the Packers and do the right thing for Brett Favre. I care about the legacy of Brett Favre. I care about the legacy of the Green Bay Packers."

-- Thompson

"Quite frankly, it's a little gut-wrenching as an organization to go through it, and certainly for Mike and myself. This stuff hurts a lot of people. I mean, it hurts. I'm not talking about physically hurting, but the sensitivity. We understand where the fans are coming from. This is a hot-button issue that surpasses anything I've ever gone through."

-- Thompson (ESPN.com)

JULY 13

"Brett, we welcome you back, we'll play you $12 million but you've got to hold the clipboard and ball cap. That's probably better for them as opposed to letting me go somewhere and me coming back. Then, their legacy, the management, could be in jeopardy. Let me worry about that. You don't worry about my legacy. It's a bunch of bull. That's all it is."

-- Favre to Greta Van Susteren, when asked about the possibility of returning to Green Bay in a backup role (ESPN.com)

"We wanted to create a forum for fans' voices to be heard. I don't understand how you deny somebody that threw for 4,000 yards [last season] a starting position. I can think of at least 25 teams in the NFL that would jump at the opportunity to have Brett Favre be their starting quarterback."

-- Packers fan Erick Rolfson, organizer of a pro-Favre rally at Lambeau Field. Rolfson said he was expecting a larger crowd than the 100 or so who showed up. Write that down (ESPN.com)

JULY 14

"I'm shocked that there hasn't been more support from the fans. This is a Hall of Famer we're talking about, and last I checked, the team is owned by the stockholders, not the front office."

-- Rolfson after his pro-Favre rally at the Wisconsin State Fair in Milwaukee drew a whopping 30 people

"Maybe this shows that more than a few people are sick of and fed up with Brett. I personally think he should just show up on the first day of training camp and compete for the starting job like anybody else."

-- Packers fan Eric Anderson, at the rally (ESPN.com)

JULY 18

"There's no way he's going to be back in that locker room now. Absolutely, positively no way ... I don't think he serves himself or anybody any good by coming back. Bottom line is this: If this was anybody else, this wouldn't be a conversation, because they'd be like, 'Man, you're retired. Go on about your business. What's wrong with you?'"

-- Former Raiders receiver Tim Brown

"Understand that it is a business and that at some point it is going to come down to business over feelings ... Players have to understand that it is going to come down to that, whether it's Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott. Eventually, it is going to come to a point when the team says as great as your were, it's diminishing returns now and we've got to move on. There's a lesson for all of us coaches, general managers, players: You can be replaced."

-- Colts coach Tony Dungy

"I think [the Packers] are making a mistake. If they don't want [Favre] back, that's one thing. Release him, let him go to another team, but don't tell him he can come back but he's going to be a backup. That's not fair to Brett Favre and everything he's done for the organization."

-- Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson (ESPN.com)

JULY 19

"I've worked closely with Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy on this, and they have my full support."

-- Murphy, backing up his general manager and coach (ESPN.com)

JULY 25

"We have not made a decision yet on whether to cancel it. But we're coming up to a point where we're going to have to make a decision pretty quickly."

-- Murphy on the ceremonial retiring of Favre's No. 4 jersey, originally scheduled for the Sept. 8 season opener in Lambeau against Minnesota

"We're going to retire Brett's number at some point. Regardless of whether it's this year, it'll be sometime in the future. We'll wait and see, but I think it's still enough up in the air that we want to wait and see how things play out."

-- Murphy

"We are all in unison, and are very supportive of the way Ted and Mike have handled this situation."

-- Murphy, speaking to 9,375 Packers shareholders, who reportedly responded with "applause along with a boo or two"

"Bring him back!"

-- A lone woman among the shareholders

"Brett Favre deserves more respect than he got!"

-- A woman (perhaps the same one) shortly after the shareholders meeting ended

"He retired. Get over it."

-- A shareholder with a dissenting opinion (ESPN.com)

JULY 28

"I asked Ted [Saturday], 'Am I welcome in the building if I report?' And Ted was just about shattered. He said, 'Brett, you can't do that -- you'll get me fired.' I told him I'm not trying to get anybody fired. So Ted asked me to let the guys report and let's try to resolve this over the next two or three days."

-- Favre, making public some comments that Thompson likely wishes had remained private

"I said, 'Let me compete, you'll know I'll win this job.' And Ted said again, 'Brett, things have changed. Aaron Rodgers is our quarterback.' It's pretty clear -- and this is what I told the commissioner -- that they want me to go away, stay retired. They would much rather see me in a Packers uniform, paying me $12 million to be a backup -- which you know they really don't want -- rather than see in another uniform, no matter what they say. They'll drag this out, asking a king's ransom [in a trade], hoping it all goes away."

-- Favre

"In my mind, it's no different than me talking to Donovan McNabb as he's [reporting] to training camp or talking to Brian Westbrook. I communicate with people in this league. You don't leave past relationships."

-- Minnesota Vikings coach Brad Childress, explaining that he was just chatting with his buddy Brett, and definitely not, you know, tampering, because golly, that would be wrong

"I have never denied talking to Childress. I've known [Childress] for about 12 years, going back to when he and Jay Norvell were assistants at Wisconsin and they used to come in and sit in our quarterback meetings. And then Brad went to Philadelphia to be with Andy Reid and, you know, Andy and I are big buddies, so the relations continued. Like I told Milt and like I told the commissioner, I've spoken to Childress. I've spoken to Darrell Bevell [Vikings offensive coordinator], I've spoken to Andy Reid, I've spoken to Mike Sherman, Matt Millen, Steve Mariucci … I've spoken to a lot of guys who are my friends and guys who have coached me, either talked to them or left messages."

-- Favre, unintentionally opening up a slew of tampering investigations

"That's just bogus. I don't have a Packers cell phone. Never have. I told Ted [on Thursday] that he and McCarthy needed to clear up this cell phone thing. I told him they needed to get in front of the media and admit that I don't have one of their cell phones. And Ted said, 'Well, I think somebody already squashed that [story].' But that isn't enough. They need to get up and admit it's ridiculous and bogus."

-- Favre (ESPN.com)

JULY 28

"It's obviously the first step in Brett coming back, but we'll deal with that when Brett is reinstated and have a plan for that when he comes back."

-- McCarthy, after Favre formally filed reinstatement papers with the league

"[Rodgers will] be starting all of the [preseason] games as the starter. We've talked about possibly playing our first group maybe a little longer, and those are things that we'll discuss. The health of your football team obviously factors into that, so that is our plan going into the preseason with Aaron."

-- McCarthy

"The plan for Brett Favre will be discussed first with Brett Favre and then we'll make the public aware of it."

-- McCarthy

"Hey, wonder what I'm going to do there?"

-- Murphy, to reporters as he boarded a private plane bound for Hattiesburg

"I'm not as affected as you guys think I am or should be. They told me I'm the starter, and until that changes, that's going to be my focus. I keep saying that."

-- Rodgers

"Any time you have a situation where there is a distraction or one guy getting all the attention or the buzz, rather than on us concentrating or executing plays, you get tired of answering questions. It's only going to be worse if he shows up in camp tomorrow or the next day. We've just all got to be prepared to be professionals and to practice hard and work hard and make sure everyone on the team is doing their job."

-- Packers defensive back Charles Woodson, openly asking Favre to please just stay home (ESPN.com)

JULY 31

"He would love to go back in Green Bay. I mean, that's why he started working out. But right now, it looks like he'll be the quarterback at Oak Grove High School."

-- Favre's agent James "Bus" Cook, after a private Sunday meeting between himself, Favre and Murphy. At the meeting, Murphy reportedly offered Favre a $20 million package that would keep him with the Packers, but off the football field.

"I'm late for a 9 o'clock meeting and I'm not lying."

-- Favre, to reporters after his usual workout at Oak Grove High School

"Why don't y'all get in the shade?"

-- Favre, advising reporters on how to handle Mississippi summers

"It's to the point where I think it's better for myself and better for the football team: It's time for me to coach the football team. I can't concern myself with the day-to-day, blow-by-blow things that go on outside of the preparation of the team. So if he comes in here, he'll be one of 80 and I will coach him accordingly."

-- McCarthy (ESPN.com)

AUGUST 1

"There isn't a perfect solution to this, but Mark Murphy is at least trying. We know what they want and where I stand. His solution, although awkward and unsettling for most, may be the best in the end."

-- Favre, via text message to ESPN's Ed Werder

"Brett needs to stay a part of football. Obviously, he's a part of the Green Bay Packers. This is really something that's been out there all along."

-- McCarthy

"Once he's reinstated, Brett's going in, and once that happens Packerland becomes Disneyland -- although that's not what Brett wants for his teammates. He wants them to be successful and do well. But that's what happens if this thing doesn't get resolved, and he decides to report."

-- Cook

"My intentions have been to play, and with Green Bay. They say no, so I still want to play in this division for obvious reasons, which I made clear to management. If they won't let me play in Green Bay, let me play against you. That's where I am."

-- Favre

"It's painfully clear the Packers do not want Brett back, but they will take him back once they have no choice"

-- Cook (ESPN.com)

AUGUST 2

"You could hand me a billion dollars, and I'm still going to be on the field. It doesn't matter to me. But everyone has different situations, has different views on money. Money is not more important than football to me right now."

-- Packers linebacker A.J. Hawk, in a quote that Thompson is sure to remember when contract negotiations with Hawk come around (ESPN.com)

AUGUST 3

"I'm not trying to interject myself. I was interjected into it because there was a tampering charge initially. I'm not looking for things to interject myself to. It's an issue that needs to be addressed because of the competing interests. You want to make sure it's done properly and within our rules. This is an issue that ultimately has to be decided between Brett and the Packers."

-- NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, trying his best to stay out of this mess (ESPN.com)

"Frankly, Brett's change of mind put us in a very difficult spot. We now will revise many actions and assumptions about our long-term future, all predicated on Brett's decision last March to retire. As a result of his decision, we invested considerably in a new and different future without Brett and we were obviously moving in that direction. That's why this wasn't easy. Having crossed the Rubicon once when Brett decided to retire, it's very difficult to reorient our plans and cross it again in the opposite direction -- but we'll put this to our advantage."

-- Murphy, in a released statement when it was finally known that Favre would be returning to Green Bay to compete with Rodgers for the starting quarterback role

"I'm a competitor. I'm going to compete. This isn't going to be easy. It's going to be a dogfight. And I know if they do open it up to competition, not a lot of people give me a chance, but I believe in myself and I'm going to be the best I can be and let coach decide from there."

-- Rodgers

"Yeah, I take it personally. But like I said, it's not the first time and it won't be the last time."

-- Rodgers, after he was booed by a vocal minority of fans at a Packers scrimmage

"I'm happy. I'm excited. It's good to have him back in the house."

-- Packers receiver Donald Driver (ESPN.com)

TURNS OUT THERE ARE 1,697 PLAYERS IN THE NFL NOT NAMED 'FAVRE'

FOR THE CARDS, ANQUAN, IT IS ABOUT LARRY'S DEAL

"Right now I don't want a deal. You may think I'm funny or saying that just to say it, but for me, I'm tired of it. I washed my hands of the whole situation."

-- Arizona wide receiver Anquan Boldin displaying some fine sour grapes after failing to secure a new contract from the Arizona Cardinals

"It's not even about Larry's deal. Larry earned everything he got. Honestly, he played his butt off. He deserved it."

-- Boldin, referring to the $40 million ($30 million guaranteed) contract that teammate Larry Fitzgerald signed after last season

"Pretty much."

-- Boldin, when asked if he felt the Cardinals had lied to him

"I think my numbers speak for themselves. Even they (the Cardinals) came out publicly and said that I outplayed my contract. I don't have to make a case to anybody why I'm deserving of a contract. That's self-explanatory."

-- Boldin (Associated Press)

B.J. PENN WOULD WHIP BOTH YOUR ASSES

"When that happens on the field, usually guys have helmets on. But this happened on the sidelines, so it probably wasn't a good idea."

-- Carolina quarterback Jake Delhomme after receiver Steve Smith and cornerback Ken Lucas got into a sideline fight and had to be separated during a Panthers practice. Lucas was reportedly not wearing a helmet and on one knee when Smith hit him

"Steve was probably a little remorseful for what happened. He was trying to apologize, so I was walking with him just to be there."

-- Wide receiver Muhsin Muhammad, after escorting Smith into a tent where trainers were tending to Lucas's injuries

"When I was 22 I was a different guy, so I'm not trying to spin anything. You spend two hours with somebody and now you know them, that's not the case."

-- Smith, referring to a training camp fight he had with Anthony Bright in 2002. Bright suffered facial injuries and sued Smith. The case was eventually settled out of court (ESPN.com)

"I'm not going to get into who's right, who's wrong. I'm completely wrong. It was an asinine decision. And I'll move forward better than I probably have ever had to. It's the first time in my life that I really haven't forgiven myself."

-- Smith, after the Panthers suspended him for the season's first two games

"We're still waiting on the doctors to give us the timetable on when we're going to have this procedure done."

-- Lucas, speaking with a blackened left eye and a swollen nose. He added that he had accepted Smith's apology

"I will not put myself into a position where I have to defend myself, to state my side of the story. There's no side. There's only one side, a lack of judgment on my part. That's really all I have to say. I have no excuse. All I have is the opportunity to gain the respect of my fans, to gain the respect of my family, gain the respect of my co-workers and gain the respect of the organization."

-- Smith

"I'm a fallen man. I'm a man that made a mistake. I plan to mend the bridges that I've burned and help rebuild the bridge, if I need to all by myself."

-- Smith (Associated Press)

'ONLY?'

"I can't go out and play this year making $445,000. Come on, man."

-- Bears kick returner Devin Hester explaining why he reported late to training camp in Chicago

"I have to make a statement. I showed by going to (organized team activities) that I was a team player. But then, I just felt like they weren't taking it seriously that I wanted to get a new deal."

-- Hester (Arizona Republic)

"They're very hard deals to get done. It's a lot of projection, and you can only go on current data."

-- Bears senior director of football administration Cliff Stein after signing Hester to a $40 million ($15 million guaranteed) contract extension. The Bears signed 10 players already under contract to new deals or extensions this offseason, including Hester, Tommie Harris, Lance Briggs and Brian Urlacher

"They pay and take care of their own guys, and that's a comfortable feeling if you're a player. If you play and perform the way they expect, the organization will take care of you. That's a place you want to be."

Bears center Olin Kreutz, who signed his own extension in the middle of last season (Chicago Tribune)

WOKKA WOKKA WOKKA

"It's just for y'all that I'm shedding the nickname. All my teammates call me Pac-Man. ... Y'all are not my teammates, y'all are not in the locker room and going through the trenches with me."

-- Cowboys cornerback Adam "Don't Call Me Pac-Man Unless You Are A Teammate" Jones

"I call him dummy if I want."

-- Cowboys defensive tackle Tank Johnson

"I'm not even worrying about that, it will come. All I've got to do is do my part, and I'm doing it."

-- Jones, who is still technically suspended by the NFL, referring to his reinstatement. In related news, the alleged shooter in the strip club riot Jones started in Las Vegas has been indicted (Associated Press)

HOW WERE WE SUPPOSED TO TAKE IT?

"People take it in a different context when I say I want out and I'm not happy. They think, 'He doesn't want to be in Cincinnati anymore, he's dissing us as fans.' It's not like that. I love my fans. I wasn't able to get that point across. They've supported me. They've been good to me, and I've been good to them. I was going through a situation where I felt a change was needed. It didn't work out. Hey, I'm back. Get ready for the show."

-- Bengals wide receiver Chad Johnson, explaining why he was going to show up to training camp on time after begging to be traded throughout the season

"I'm still in Cincinnati. This is one of those crazy things. I love Cincinnati. I love my fans. I love everything about it. I wasn't happy about certain things — the business side of it — and I spoke my mind and that was it."

-- Johnson

"A true fan of mine knows what they've got. A true fan of mine sticks with me through thick and thin when things aren't going right. That's what a true fan does. Those that are upset because I spoke my mind? There's not much I can do but apologize."

-- Johnson

"[Wide receivers have] always been flamboyant. They've always been flashy. It's just something you have to have. When you're playing receiver, you have to have a certain stigma about you. All of us all have different characteristics and personalities, but we're all rock stars."

-- Johnson, on why he and Randy Moss and Terrell Owens and Steve Smith and Javon Walker are all so crazy (Associated Press)

BYE JASON! HAVE FUN IN D.C.!

"I think (left tackle Matt) Light and I popped a cold beer when I saw that transaction. We were the two most excited players in the NFL ... We were hugging each other. It was awesome."

-- Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, reacting to the deal that sent Miami defensive end Jason Taylor to the Washington Redskins (Worcester Telegram)

THE RETURN OF HERM

"We've got to be a little bit more violent."

-- Chiefs coach Herm Edwards, unhappy with the blocking he saw in a recent practice (Kansas City Star)

"When those lightning bolts start coming out of the sky and the wind blowing — there's a God that I believe in that's bigger than me, that has a whistle; he's telling me: 'You know what? We ain't going.' So you don't go. You just line up tomorrow and go."

-- Edwards, after a lightning storm cut another practice session short (Kansas City Star)

Look for Week In Quotes to make its regular return on August 14 and run weekly (hence the catchy name) throughout the season. Send in your favorites (including those you think we may have missed) to quotes-at-footballoutsiders.com, and please remember to include a link to your source.

Posted by: Vincent Verhei on 04 Aug 2008

93 comments, Last at 08 Aug 2008, 6:22pm by Sid

Comments

1
by Waverly (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 4:10pm

I'm impressed -- how many articles about Favre did you have to read to get all of those quotes?

2
by billsfan (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 4:11pm

I'm surprised... I thought there would be some more Brett Favre quotes, based on all that's happened this summer.

3
by Dean (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 4:31pm

One Herman Edwards quote is better then 8 months of Brett Favre quotes!

4
by MJK (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 4:40pm

Am I the only one that skipped down over the whole Favre thing until I got to Herm?

5
by Joe T. (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 4:51pm

Do you think Brett would finally get the message if the Packers went ahead and retired his number?

6
by Chris (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 4:57pm

If those stories about Steve Smith are true, then he is the lowest form of human life in the NFL.

Running up and giving Lucas a cheap shot while he was on one knee watching special teams?

I honestly hope that isn't true for the honor of Steve Smith. I hope he punched him like a man, but sadly I doubt it.

7
by Mike (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 5:52pm

Are there any punters or kickers trying out they could give it to?

8
by mikeabbott (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 6:25pm

With what Jason Taylor has done to Tom Brady over the years I as a Patriot fan can honestly say - this trade is a legitimate reason to celebrate.
No more JT twice a year!

9
by Torn (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 8:12pm

#4

I skipped over all Favre talk until I got to the rest of the NFL...

10
by starzero (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 9:16pm

putting herm at the end makes slogging through the rest of it worthwhile. though i could have skipped the favre stuff.

the only quotes you missed were the ones in chicago papers asking how the bears are going to land favre as quarterback.

11
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 9:19pm

The one thing about the Favre brouhaha that still grabs my attention a little is who is feeding Bob McGinn in Milwaukee such bogus leaks, like the cell phone nonsense. Childress said today that, contrary to McGinn's report, the Packers haven't contacted the Vikings regarding a trade. I suppose Childress could be flat out lying, but I doubt it, and if McGinn's source was the same for both bogus stories, and comes from within the Packer organization, I'd say McGinn might needs to burn his source, in order for McGinn to maintain his credibility. When you run two false stories within a couple of weeks, people might reasonably look upon you as a guy who simply goes with any unsubstantiated rumor that one hears in beer-halls.

12
by B (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:10pm

Wait, Favre retired, unretired and is coming back to the Packers? Why is this the first I've heard of this story.

13
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:24pm

Will:

McGinn has been right a lot more than he has been wrong in his career. It only makes sense that the Packers contact the Vikes especially since the Commish is all but ordering TT to work the phones. It's possible that contact was made but in a manner to give Childress "deniability". Or, as you write, McGinn's source is full of horsehockey.

But I appreciate FO listing all of the quotes showing the timeline and the utter BS that has become the "Favre Look At Me" show. Ted Thompson has the personality of a dried turnip, but I still cut the guy some slack. How can anyone REALLY know when Favre is sincere about wanting to play? He does, no he doesn't, he kinda does, but then maybe not. Cripes. It's crazy nuts.

Thompson is a guy who develops a plan and godd*mmit sticks to the plan. Could he be more flexible? I think being ready to jump on a plane to go to bumf*ck Mississippi at a moment's notice is pretty flexible. But I STILL believe that Thompson's and McCarthy's willingness to GET on the plane threw Brett off HIS plan. Which was to surprise GB, have them release Favre, and allow him to traipse up to Minny.

And Bevell is a total Favre kiss*ss. Don't tell me he hasn't been working his little snugglebunny. And Favre chafes at taking instruction from McCarthy. He resents folks thinking McCarthy had anything to do with Favre playing better last season. Darrell wouldn't be the big meanie. He would coddle and cuddle and pamper his bestest buddy.

Makes me want to puke.........

14
by Harris (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:32pm

"If they won’t let me play in Green Bay, let me play against you. That’s where I am.”

That statement is slightly more grammatically correct, but every bit as logically incoherent as anything Emmitt Smith has ever said. Why in God's name would the Packers let Favre stay in the division if they could avoid it? Why would any sane person actually think that request makes any sense at all?

15
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:50pm

Badger, if something here wants to make you puke, you are taking this entirely too seriously. An almost 39 year old guy can't make up his mind, once and for all, as to whether he wants to play, or where he wants to play. A team's coach and GM get frustrated with Hamlet. What's the big deal? Of course, this also means that I agree with you that a lot of the criticism of Thompson is unwarranted.

The only reason this story has legs is because Thompson and McCarthy aren't certain whether they want Favre to start at qb for them, and it is a perfectly warranted uncertainty. This then becomes a simple manner as to how hard Favre is willing to fight for his release, and how much the other guys are willing to tolerate. If management is truly certain that they are better off without Favre starting, then they should do what I suggested last week; add an addendum to the contract which calls for a huge roster bonus on the day after the day management deems the best to cut Favre, thus virtually guranteeing Favre that he will be released, and then ask Favre to agree to excuse himself from camp until he is released. If they aren't sure whether they are better off without him starting, then by all means they should hold a true competition for the job.

As to McGinn, I thought the cell phone story just had to be an example of a souurce flat out lying to McGinn, and in those situations, I'd like to see the source burned.

16
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 10:57pm

I suspect, Harris, because the unspoken other part of the statement is, "Unless you want me to be holding a presser in the locker room, to several dozen media types, after every practice and game, in which I dissect every mistake Aaron Rodgers makes, and put forth the case that I should be starting. And the beauty of it will be that I won't actually have to drop the bombs myself, becaue the media types will do it for me. How's that sound!?"

Favre may not be a genius, but he instinctively knows how to work the media to his advantage.

17
by Insancipitory (not verified) :: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 11:12pm

ONE MILLION DOLLARS! [pinky] for an NFL Themed musical production of Hamlet staring Brett Favre. TWO! MILLION if Herm Edwards is cast in it too.

18
by FarvrJoe (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:08am

Farvr began carrer in Alnata . Alnata needs vet. WB. Why not end carrer where it started?

19
by BOOM!ImChrishHanshen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:20am

WHEW!! Thank you for firing up the Favre Fiasco again. After last week's PK article dropped off the front page, I thought the forum was gone for good.

I don't know that the cell phone story was bogus. Although I've lost some respect for McGinn, I'm hoping that when the season starts, so will his calm, cold, statistical journalistic analysis of the Packers and their opponents.

I still think Favre did have a cell phone provided by the team, and that while rushing to report the evidence of contact with Bevell/Childress, the Packers forgot that the phone technically violated terms of the salary cap. And perhaps Goodell may have even alerted the Pack to this error.

An intrasquad scrimmage does not a career make. But a few more outings by Rodgers like the one he had last night, and many who think Favre should be shown the door will instead be pining for his return.

Which of course Favre knows, and TT/MM/mm are aware of it, too. And I'm guessing it was a hot topic of conversation during the three-hour meeting between Favre and MM on Monday night.

Childress's response to the trade rumors are exactly what I would expect, whether the rumors were true, or not.

20
by Kalyan (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 2:00am

I wrote this in the AOLSPORTSBLOG:

PS: Just discussing a business decision. Not that i want to side on either Favre's or TT's position in the recent skirmish. The news was so great one of India's premier news channel had a 2 min report last week (FYI - India has no idea of American Football and the only American football trivia known locally is that SUPER BOWL is the name of the final match of the american football season)

I have a better suggestion for the Packers than Vikings. Trade him to Chicago.

In Chicago, Packers have no offense of any significance (save Hester!), the O-line is average+ and he has no tools. Moreover, he plays in the windy soldier field. So, he is going to have a not-so-great time. Trade him to the Bears for a conditional fourth turning to third. He will not be a threat to you anymore

In MN, he is going to give you a thousand nightmares! You are sending him to team that is a good QB away from serious playoff contender. He will trouble you when you go to Metrodome and the packer fans will give him a hero's welcome when he comes to Lambeau Field. With AP, a strong O-line, the lack of big playmakers in WRs doesn't look so bad. If you still want to go ahead and take the risk - it shouldn't anything less than a 2nd rounder (turning to first, if Favre goes to Pro-Bowl, even as alternate)

If you are serious about trading him, avoid looking at MN and look to the Bears.

21
by Alex51 (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 2:37am

“If they won’t let me play in Green Bay, let me play against you. That’s where I am.”

That statement is slightly more grammatically correct, but every bit as logically incoherent as anything Emmitt Smith has ever said. Why in God’s name would the Packers let Favre stay in the division if they could avoid it?

I think Favre's point is that they won't be able to avoid it. Not without dealing with a constant media circus.

As to why he would want so desperately to stay in the division, I'd guess it's one or both of two things:

1. He wants the team to acknowledge that he's still better than Rodgers by letting him start, and wants to punish the team if they don't.

2. He wants to play for the Vikings, because he knows people there, and because he'd get to play about a dozen games next season in domes.

22
by James, London (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 6:17am

It's good to read Hernm again. Man, I miss football.

23
by Fan in Exile (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 7:58am

As far as that whole Hamlet production, wouldn't it be great to see Herm as Polonius. I mean as long as he knew that he didn't have to stick to the script and could just start giving his own advice.

Belicheck would have to be Claudius of course.

Peter King would be Laertes, I mean who else should be the guy who lives to tell Hamlet's story.

Okay, I'm done; I've reached my nerd quotient for the week.

24
by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 8:59am

We're about one BadgerT1000 post away from needing an irrational Favre vs. Packer Management thread.

In one corner, we have Badger, who has at least for a year (probably more) been about as anti-Favre as a Packer fan can get. In the other corner, we have Will Allen, who as far I can tell had no feelings about Favre either way until it seemed likely that the Vikings might be able to replace Tavaris Jackson with a multiple-time MVP.

Either way, I love both both of you. I just wish lionsbob (or whatever the FO token Lions fan's posting name is, I forget), Andrew (the other noted Vikings fan), and that European Bears fan that's around could all combine their NFC North-ness with Will and Badger to make one epic Favre thread.

25
by Theo, Netherlands (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 9:38am

Herm, that was Thor - the thundergod.

26
by Harris (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 10:01am

#16 Really? Because I think the fastest way to unite the team and the fans behind Rodgers and against Favre is to have Favre stand in the locker room and rip a teammate everyday.The NFL's second commandment (behind "Thou shalt play hurt") is "Thou shalt not disparage a teammate in public." Favre's halo would get really dirty real fast doing that.

#21 I understand why Favre wants to stay in the division. I don't understand why he thinks the Packers would (or should) allow him to do so.

27
by MJHD` (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 10:10am

The excellent wordle.com allows an artistic yet quantitative summary of where our focus has been this offseason. I thought the crowd here would enjoy such an aesthetically pleasing numerical analysis. See the link in my name.

28
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 11:06am

All:

To clarify it's not playing within the division that matters to Favre. It's playing for the Vikings.

Because:

--he knows they have a good team
--he knows their quarterback is suspect
--he knows the coaching staff
--the qb coach, Darrell Bevell, fawns over Favre (See George Constanza--Tony episode. Serious mancrush)
--Favre would play most of his games indoors, a venue in which he now excels
--Favre loathes Ted Thompson
--helping the Vikes win at the Packers expense would stick it to TT on multiple levels

Favre resents folks thinking that Mike McCarthy had anything to do with Favre's better play in 2007. Favre REALLY resents TT ignoring Favre's suggestions in 2005, 2006 and 2007 on roster construction. Favre REALLY, REALLY resents Thompson pushing Favre to make up his mind about the future. TT wanted a decision before the draft. The utter gall.

Look, if providing this information makes me irrational so be it. But I have read so much completely wrong information/supposition somebody has to work to set the record straight.

And if folks want to challenge me on claiming that Favre loathes Ted Thompson I would ask them, "Have you been living in a cave?".

29
by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 11:09am

26. Didn't Favre already violate this commandment during the Javon Walker fiasco? And in the most sensitive way possible too, getting involved in contract disputes. As long as Favre remains ESPN's golden goose that keeps on giving (which may not be much longer, as Favre fatigue is sure to set in at some point) he'll remain the teflon Quarterback. Don't kill the golden goose, and all that.

27. Not enough Favre.

30
by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 11:13am

28. I meant irrational in the FO sense of the word, which involves people with close personal connections to the issue (well, personal in football terms) arguing endlessly about a subject making many of the same points over and over again. Not that your actual points don't make sense or anything like that.

Also, my opinion should probably not matter.

31
by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 11:16am

Not to pull a Nathan with a 3rd straight post, but I'd like to amend my post about with "my opinion on this matter". I'd like to think my opinions on general topics matter at least a little :(

32
by Dylan (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 11:34am

As a lifelong Viking fan who has had the misfortune of rooming with a Packer fan during the early part of the decade, I'd just like to throw out that I could never, ever root for a team with Brett Favre at QB. If Favre signs with Minnesota, I am, to borrow a Simmons phrase, an NFL orphan.

I know damn well that I'm not the only Viking fan who feels this way. I understand that we're a huge, huge minority, one that's small enough where we really shouldn't impact any decision here, but I just wanted to throw that out.

33
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 11:48am

Harris, I've stated from day one that Favre's power in this matter is directly proportional to his willingness to take a public relations hit. If Favre decides he doesn't care about his public image, he has all, and I do mean all, the power in this matter. He probably can single-handedly ruin the Packers' season, and Rodgers' potential, unless Rodgers plays in a way that is extremely unusual for a first-time starter.

Even if Favre does care about his public image, he may be able to inflct nearly as much damage to the Packers and Rodgers, while manipulating the media in a way which limits the damage to his public image. The reality is that a 39 year old superstar qb who has built an iconic image of himself, with a mountain of money in the bank, who came in 2nd in MVP voting as a 38 year old, with a 12 million dollar salary which become fully guaranteed in week one, has a gigantic amount of leverage over his employer. Given how much revenue Favre has delivered to the Packers' income statement over the past 16 years, over and above what an average NFL qb would have done, that is not an entirely unjust result.

Temo, I've always been an admirer of Favre's play, even given his weaknesses, the media hype, and the fact that he has smoked the Vikings with some regularity. I try to avoid thinking as if I know any of these people personally. I'm not even close to being convinced that Favre in purple equals ten or more wins for the Vikings, although it certainly makes it more likely than ol' Tavaris as starter.

39 year old guys can collapse in a moment. If it is assumed that no physical collapse occurs, the most important thing, in terms of Favre maximizing the Vikings' wins, would be for Favre to agree that the primary purpose of the Vikings passing game is to force defenses to go with only seven in the box against Adrian Peterson, and allow Peterson to be the centerpiece when that is the case, except in third and very long situations. Would Favre be able to do this, and would the coaching staff preach it? Ya' got me. I'd mostly just like to see Favre in purple for the sheer weirdness involved.

34
by James, London (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 11:51am

Well the whole Brett Farve fiasco has officially gone nuts. The story's even made the BBC Sport website.

35
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:04pm

James:

It also made NPR yesterday.

I stumbled across Rick Reilly comparing Favre to Cher. I am not a Reilly fan but found the comparison apt.

My Favre perspective is shaped by my following core beliefs around sports:

--better to say good-bye a year early than a year late

--if presented with a choice comprised of an easy path and a hard path ALWAYS take the hard path. Employing Favre is easy. Ergo, it will be the wrong decision.

36
by Theo, Netherlands (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:06pm

32. I was wondering that - how would the viking fans react?
Normally the player is an upgrade (see Rod, A.) so the fans are ok with it. The rivalry is more Team vs Team than about individual players. But if it was ever different - it would be in this case.
.

34. It doesn't make the Dutch news because it's not soccer or the olympics.

37
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:08pm

Badger, it all comes down to McCarthy's and Murphy's estimation of Rodgers', and, I suppose, Brohm. I don't have any basis to think one way or another regarding that.

38
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:20pm

Will:

Being something of an unknown actually HELPS Rodgers. Because it's well known around GB that McCarthy is already pretty d*mn sick and tired of having to remind Favre of what NOT to do. Which is why MM was on board with the Ted Thompson "Favre Free Zone" plan.

Mike Holmgren used to joke about the energy it took to coach Favre but Green Bay Press-Gazette writer Chris Havel wrote some interesting articles after Holmgren left about how Mike almost benched Favre in 1995 not because Favre's performance was hurting the team but because Holmgren was "F*cking sick and tired of having to say the same godd*mned thing at practice". If Mark Brunell doesn't get hurt in the Vikings game that year Favre was almost certainly going to be benched.

Ray Rhodes and Mike Sherman just looked the other way.

So I wonder if Bevell is really doing his boss a "solid" by playing kissy-face with Favre. By mid-season with the Vikes they might have a naming contest for the color of Childress' bald head for when Favre pulls a whopper.

I am claiming "Vermillion".

39
by Cyrus (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:24pm

And if Holmgren had benched Favre, I would consider him the stupidest coach ever.

Seriously.

I don't care if Belichick has to tell Brady the same damned thing every single practice... Brady is half the reason Belichick is considered to be a good coach. Brady (Read: Favre) can do whatever the hell he wants.

And I agree with the Irrational GB vs. Favre thread. No offense Badger, but you would be that threads MVP. (Not that you don't know your stuff, its that you write about it repeatedly, reiterating similar points)

40
by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:36pm

On closer inspection, there appear to be 5 football stories on the BBC site. Two are about Favre, while a third is LT and Bush talking about Wembley. The last two concern contract extensions for Chris Snee . . . and Lawrence Tynes. Oh yes.

41
by Harris (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:50pm

Will, I suppose that's possible, assuming he never wants to return to the scene of his greatest professional success and/or doesn't mind playing with guys who despise him while possibly torpedoing his HOF chances (at least temporarily) in the process. If this all started because Favre didn't get enough love from Thompson and McCarthy, I can't imagine he's willing to play Darth Vader now.

I think they should just trade his ass and dare him to sit out. The Bucs went after Plummer's bonus money; why wouldn't they go after Favre's? Then the PR onus is on him because the Packers can say they gave him what he said he wanted -- a chance to play. The fans may be angry they didn't bring Favre back, but nobody with any sense at all will criticize them for refusing to hand him over to a division rival.

42
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:51pm

Well, I like Badger's reiterations, and I disgree that any player can do whatever the hell he wants, because when it gets to that point, a coach isn't earning his money, since maximizing performance is what he gets paid for. Favre was a much better qb under Holmgen than Sherman, and it was likely in good part due to the fact that Favre understood that Holmgren was just crazy enough to go to his own nuclear option if Favre crossed a somewhat nebulous line. If Bill Walsh could bench Joe Montana for Steve Young, Holmgren could have benched Favre for Brunell without being an idiot coach, and no, I'm not saying Brunell equals Young.

Badger, it is likely that the only thing that will help Rodgers is outstanding play on his part, and a minimum of ten wins by the team. That's what life is like for replacing a HOF NFL qb in the best of circumstances, instead of one where the HOF qb is willing to play, and there is non-trivial evidence that he can still play at a high level. Life just ain't fair.

43
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 12:57pm

Harris, the CBA allows a veteran with Favre's years of service to refuse to report, and thus negate the trade. Favre ain't gettin' traded anywhere without his stamp of approval. He has the hammer, not the Packers, and he is getting inducted into the HOF as soon as he is eligible, assuming he doesn't become involved in a game-fixing operation.

44
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:04pm

Well Cyrus, I learned a long time ago one of the keys to communication is repetition a.k.a "staying on message". Because unlike you most folks don't understand a point the first, the second or even the third time it is made.

That isn't meant to be insulting to the masses. It is just a fact.

And hey, feel free to ignore my posts since I am so incredibly irrational. Heaven forbid I keep you from reading the posts of enlightenment.

45
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:05pm

By the way, I wouldn't assume that Favre would be despised by his teammates, especially if Rodgers struggles. Guys want to win. Period. If players perceive that Favre improves those odds significantly over Rodgers, they are likely to start despising the people responsible for keeping their best chance to win on the bench, while paying him 12 million dollars.

46
by Jimmy (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:14pm

As far as Brett Favre goes this Bears fan adopts a similar approach to the people of Romania when they were told that Nicolae CeauÅŸescu was dead. They didn't beleive it until they saw his corpse. I won't beleive that Favre is washed up until I see him play like crap against a mediocre defense, or retired. Even though we beat #4 & Co five out of the last six times we have played them, I will not think I am rid of him until he is gone. I endured him consistently humiliating my team for so long, I can't believe that he is gone until I see proof!

Give me proof!

And please not to the Vikings, it would be difficult to watch.

47
by Cyrus (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:17pm

Ironic, Badger, that you said most people need it repeated three times.

"Irrational" in this case isn't saying your argument, but the Favre vs. GB debate itself. In the same context as the Brady vs. Manning debate. Nothing that you have said has struck me as irrational.

(This is a reply to this sentence:
And hey, feel free to ignore my posts since I am so incredibly irrational.)

48
by Jimmy (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:19pm

while possibly torpedoing his HOF chances (at least temporarily) in the process.

The only way Brett Favre isn't a first ballot Hall of Famer is if he joins the Mark Chmura school of Public Relations, except in a much worse way. How it would be worse is up to you, he could either go younger, or for variety try it in a public place.

49
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:27pm

Yeah, Jimmy, a game-fixing scheme involving public pedophilia is about the only way Favre doesn't get inducted in his first year of eligibility. The whole notion of Favre's long term status in Green Bay being harmed is also overblown. Eventually, people forget stuff like this, and remember the wins.

50
by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:38pm

I'm intrigued by your notion of public pedophilia. The two words both make sense, but put together it's a headache-inducing concept.

51
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:40pm

I would hope so, temo!

52
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 1:51pm

I think I may have been wrong about Favre's ability to negate a trade, now that he has been reinstated. In any case, 12 million guaranteed in week one makes it unlikely that any team would trade for him unless Favre was willing to have a discussion with that team prior to the trade.

53
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 2:24pm

Just who is this Brent Farve person and why am I hearing so much about him all of a sudden? I saw him at an airport the other day, so I'll assume he's some sort of pilot or foreign dignitary who dresses really casually. If so, why visit Wisconsin and not DC? The humidity?

Also, I think he needs a razor.

54
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 2:36pm

He's a bohemian sort, Bobman, famous for pick-up football games with neighborhood fellas wearing blue jeans.

55
by Some Guy (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 2:59pm

Irrational Brett Favre discussion thread, please.

56
by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 3:04pm

Will, while riding a tractor and plowing a field!

57
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 3:14pm

Bobman, I hear he once dated a girl named Mary. Is this true?

58
by Cyrus (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 4:02pm

No, not Mary, the name was Madden.

59
by BOOM!ImChrishHanshen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 4:25pm

There, now everybody's here--it's kind of like having Thanksgiving at your house during a snowstorm, just waiting to see when/if everybody will show up.

When I get even more free time on my hands, I'm going to list the diabolical combination of factors that make all this so juicy (at least, for the four or five of us who can't stop commenting on it).

But assume Favre stays on the roster for this month. If A-God is awesome during the preseason and first few games, cutting/trading Favre seems a lot easier.

If Rodgers gets hurt/is terrible, handing the reins over to Favre is also a lot easier (Bygones!).

But in the very likely event that Rodgers has his first-year starter ups and downs, it makes the Packers decision much less clear.

60
by Jimmy (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 5:44pm

There are reports of Favre to Tampa all over the place. If that one went down where would Garcia end up? Chicago?

61
by BOOM!ImChrishHanshen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 7:45pm

Jimmy, and Will, and whomever--

What was the deal with Garcia not wanting to go to the Vikings last year in FA? And, if Favre goes to Tampa (I don't think he will), would Garcia go for a trade to Minnesota now?

62
by Alex51 (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 7:50pm

There are reports of Favre to Tampa all over the place. If that one went down where would Garcia end up?

Retirement, most likely. He's old, and he's already threatened to retire from the team to get a better contract. So if he's not even going to be the starter, I think he'll just call it a career.

63
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 9:10pm

Boom, it was never openly stated that it was the case, although I strongly suspect it was. It probably had something to do with receivers who would have a tough time starting in the Big East Conference, and not knowing at the time that Adrian Peterson would be what he turned out to be.

64
by Josh (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 10:22pm

Am I the only one who thinks it would be hilarious if Favre tore his ACL the first day of camp, if the Packers ever let him back?

Man, that would be awesome on so many levels. I hate Favre.

65
by Pat (not verified) :: Tue, 08/05/2008 - 10:47pm

#60: The funniest thing about Favre going to Tampa Bay is that I don't think he'll make the Bucs that much better. Garcia was very good last year when he played, and honestly I think Green Bay's supporting cast might've been better.

Favre going to a team like Minnesota/Chicago would make them dramatically better. Not sure I agree so much with Tampa Bay.

66
by G_Man (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:47am

#64: Oh man, I had never thought of that. That easily would be one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I can't stop giggling just thinking about it. It would definitely set the new standard for Bill Simmons's Unintentional Comedy Scale.

67
by Cyrus (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:15am

From the Tampa Tribune (link in my name)

Truth & Rumors
RSS

* T&R Home
* NFL
* Colleges
* MLB
* NBA
* Golf
* NHL
* NASCAR
* MMA
* Soccer
* My T&R

NFL
View all NFL and print RSS

* Jets still interested in Favre

Report: Pack trading Favre to Bucs
Posted: Wednesday August 06, 2008 05:34AM ET

The Brett Favre saga is about to end with the NFL icon in pewter. The Tribune has learned Favre will not stand in the way of a trade from Green Bay to Tampa Bay and the deal is likely to be finalized within 24 hours. The chances of the trade unraveling are remote and Favre has indicated to the Bucs directly that he is willing to change teams after 16 years of growing his legend in Green Bay.

68
by MCS (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:40am

Reports are that the offer to Green Bay from Tampa is a little weak.

From JSOnline: "...But the Journal Sentinel, through league sources, learned that a deal between the Packers and Bucs has not been finalized. The two teams still have to agree on compensation, which could prove a sticking point. The sources were also under the impression that the New York Jets were not out of the running for Favre's services."

69
by justanothersteve (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:43am

If Favre wants to stay in the division so much, why not trade his rights to Detroit? They have two potentially excellent WRs, but no real running game or defense. BF could average 4 TDs/game, break Brady's season record, and the Lions would still end up about 8-8. Plus, Brett and Matt could be BFFs.

70
by Cyrus (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:53am

I love the idea of Brett playing for Detriot. I expect Calvin Johnson to explode, and Favre would help out a lot.

I'm also intrigued by Favre going to the Jets. As a Patriots fan, I worry a little, but I have the conceit to think the Patriots would beat them anyways. I would love to get to see Favre up close... I would definitely get tickets to that game.

And I would only accept that scenario if the Jets give up a 1st or 2nd round pick, thereby hurting them in the future.

71
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:13am

I don't dispute Badger's contention that Favre loathes Ted Thompson, but there is a limit to his loathing, since Favre is not taking the action which would inflict the most discomfort on Thompson. I suspect that this is the case in part because Favre still respects those who may be soon former teammates.

This is disappointing to me, because my rooting interest was for this to get as ugly as possible.

72
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 11:45am

Will:

I have heard several folks today comment that Favre is taking the "high road" by not working to make the Packers life a living h*ll.

Well excuse me for saying so, but wouldn't that also reflect on, oh-I don't know, Favre??

How would Favre be any different from a Terrell Owens, Philly version, if he had spoken to McCarthy as he did last night, agreed that he didn't want to play in GB given the conditions, but then proceeded to show up to Packers camp and hold press conferences? Is that so different from Owens doing situps on his front lawn?

I think it's THAT and not some "respect" factor that keeps Favre from going nuclear. Favre is VERY media savvy. He knows how that would be perceived.

Frankly, Favre doesn't really KNOW a lot of the guys on the team except in passing as teammates. He's 12 years older than a lot of those guys. They don't hang out. They don't socialize. He's their teammate and they respect him. But remember, the number of guys touting Favre coming back is all of.....TWO. Donald Driver and Al Harris. Two of the oldest guys on the team.

If Mike McCarthy thought for a MINUTE he would lose the team over this situation that conversation the other night would have gone VERY differently.

73
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 12:19pm

Badger, I have no doubt that Favre's desire to protect his public image also plays a large role in deciding to not take the nuclear option with the Packers. I will note, however, that the differences in the Owens matter were significant. To name a few, 1)Owens hadn't built up years and years of good will in Philly. Favre has in Green Bay. 2)Owens' interactions with the media were inane and clownish, whereas Favre could have been sober and analytical in dissecting every mistake Rodgers made, and the media would have reliably lapped it up and disseminated it as if it were from Lombardi himself. 3)Owens compounded his errors hugely by being openly insubordinate during practices and meetings, and that is what gave the Eagles the ultimate tool with which to get Owens out of the facilities without having to release him, or even pay him. Favre could have been perfectly professional during all team activities, quite possibly visibly outperforming Rodgers, and still make the Packers' camp a circus by engaging the media intelligently, with the goal of creating as much chaos as possible.

Favre decided, or at least has until now, to not take the path which inflicts the most pain on the Packers. I always like chaos in which nobody ends up in the hospital or morgue, so I'm disappointed. I think you are right that Favre's motives in not taking that path have a self-serving aspect, and I don't think that is any knock on Favre. I don't think, however, that it is unreasonable to also think he is motivated by regard for people in the Packers' organization who he does not loathe like he probably does Thompson.

74
by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 2:56pm

From a longer Bob McGinn article:

"From a purely football perspective, the organizational shift against Favre began that November night in Dallas, gained steam in the arctic cold of Soldier Field and became a blaze during Favre's pathetic second-half showing against the New York Giants with a Super Bowl there for the taking.

Just about everyone who counted in the football department reached the conclusion that Favre could never win another championship. His dismal playoff record in the past decade couldn't be overlooked. And the Packers concluded that it would be the mother of all mistakes if Aaron Rodgers got away without being properly evaluated as a starter.

Favre had one chance, and one chance only, to salvage his career in Green Bay. He had to commit wholeheartedly for another season by early March.

One could argue that the Packers erred by asking Favre for an answer that early. But having been hung out to dry by Favre too often in the past, they were in no mood for drama. Their days of mollycoddling were over.

The Packers would have taken back Favre as the starter, albeit reluctantly, if he had acted like any other player and not some diva. That is, show up for work in late March, practice until mid-June and be in exceptional condition by July 28."

75
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 3:34pm

Hey, if they think they are better off starting Rodgers, because of Favre's behavior, then that is what they should do, obviously. Of course, that means Favre should do whatever he thinks serves his interests best. My darker side wishes it had produced more chaos and ugliness, although I'd add that in addition to the hospital and morgue, the other setting I like to see avoided is a criminal court proceeding. Other than that, I usually say "Let's get ready to rummmmmmmbbbbblllllleeee!!!"

Oh well, there's always next time!

76
by Biebs (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 4:46pm

EDWARDS: “Well, he’s dropped it a couple of times out here, too, and that’s kind of been his deal. Now, he’s going to go into the league and the thing he’s going to learn is when they think you put the ball on the ground it’s like free pancakes at the waffle house and everybody shows up. You drop the ball on the ground when you play against defenses guess what? As soon as you get in the game they’re hollering, ‘strip the ball from this guy.’

“The best thing I told him is don’t put it on the ground. Don’t even do it in the warm-ups. Never drop a ball and it doesn’t come up. But if you drop it the red light comes on and it’s free pancakes.”

Oh Herm...

77
by mactbone (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 5:17pm

Re 15:
What happened to mister "a contract is a contract is a contract?"

78
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 5:34pm

When did I ever say a contract wasn't a contract? Favre rights are held by the Packers. He can adhere to the terms of the contract 100%, while making life extremely unpleasant for the Packers, if he so chooses. What are you talking about?

79
by The Hypno-Toad (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 7:49pm

Chad Johnson's comment about receivers being bat-sh*t loco reminded me about Marvin Harrison. What ever happened with that story? Is he still hunting people for sport, or whatever was going on there?

80
by Sid (not verified) :: Wed, 08/06/2008 - 10:26pm

I haven't been reading or posting this offseason, but my take on the Favre situation* is the same as most:

Guy needs to shut up and go away. When he announced his retirement in March, I said to myself "Thank Favre. After all his whining and crying, he finally went away. Now I won't have to hear about his 'Will he or won't he?' routine every offseason." And then this. Ugh. He screwed his team over for years, and now when they said they wouldn't hand him the job right back, he threw a tantrum.

Seriously. What an immature drama queen. He's been anything but professional the last five years.

*- sorry, I'm sure there are other places to discuss this, but this happened to be the only one I bothered with this time.

81
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 12:32am

Favre traded to the Jets. Hilarious.

82
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 12:40am

Sid, when one measures the revenues that Favre has added to Packers income statements from the past fifteen years, compared to what a typical NFL qb likely would have done, I can guarantee that every other NFL owner would absolutely love to be screwed in such a fashion.

Look, if one wants to argue that his performance over the past five years slipped a lot, and he was extremely high maintainence during that period, fine. In terms of operating an entertainment business, however, no, Favre hasn't screwed the Packers at all. Not one single bit.

83
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 1:41am

Look, if one wants to argue that his performance over the past five years slipped a lot, and he was extremely high maintainence during that period, fine. In terms of operating an entertainment business, however, no, Favre hasn’t screwed the Packers at all. Not one single bit.

Will, I don't give a damn about how much money Favre made the team. I'm talking about football. He's really screwed with them and tied their hands the last five seasons.

He had a great career, but what he did the last few years was sickening.

84
by dbt (Bears fan) (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 3:57am

Sid, if you're going to throw around loaded terms like that, you had better put your cards on the table as far as where your rooting interests lie.

Personally, I don't see how a guy who played hurt, sad (father died), distressed (wife with cancer), week after week for 15 years can be described as you do. Personally, I love beating the Pack and I loved beating Brett the last few years (doesn't quite make up for what went before, of course, but it's something), but you have to grant that he's been a pretty damn good QB.

Yes, Ted Thompson thinks he the next great packers QB on his roster. Personally, I think he's got the next Don Majkowski, but I guess we'll see. But since the day he was hired, he's been sowing the seeds for pushing Brett out, so he can start working on "his" team and his legacy. (Wasn't it just 3 years ago that he gutted the o-line just before the season started? Hmm....)

85
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 10:47am

Sid, it's professional football, and if he tied the Packers' hands, it was due in part to the Packers wanting their hands tied, because Favre was such a cash cow.

86
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 11:37am

RE: 84

How does that make a difference? I'm a Jets fan, but I'm impartial as far as Favre goes. I call it as I see it, and he's been a drama queen.

Will, aside from the fact that the Packers are a collectively-owned venture and aren't owned by one person or even one family, you should make the argument that the Pirates have done well because their owners rake in a lot of money every year.

How anyone could condone Favre's behavior the last few years is beyond me. He tried to prevent a team that needed to rebuild from rebuilding. He screwed with the personnel department by waffling every year over whether he'd even play. He then actually retired, waited until the team brought in other players and had a new plan, and then unretired and demanded that the team do what he wants.

87
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 11:39am

RE: 84

He had a great career. He wasn't much of a QB in 2005 or 2006, but somehow came back to have a pretty good season in 2007. Nowhere do I deny that Favre was a great player. I simply don't like his behavior at all.

88
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 12:26pm

Sid, the Packers have been free to cut him at any time they became displeased with his behavior. They didn't, in part because Bret Favre made the collectively owned Green Bay Packers a mountain of money.

89
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 1:13pm

They didn't want to cut him because Favre and the Packers are joined at the hip.* They only traded him because he forced their hand.

*- Aside from the fact that that's extremely stupid. A team isn't going to release a good player. Your rationale would excuse any good player's bad behavior, because the team could release him.

90
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 3:08pm

Sid, if somebody doesn't want to end a relationship, it's pretty hard to maintain that they think they are "getting screwed". On balance, the Packers saw more upside than downside to having a relationship with Favre, until very recently. In other words, they weren't getting screwed.

91
by Sid (not verified) :: Thu, 08/07/2008 - 10:36pm

To that, I can just repeat what I said in #89.

92
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Fri, 08/08/2008 - 12:27am

Yeah but #89 doesn't address the fact that the Packers were willing participants to, in your words, "getting screwed". Last I checked, Packers management has never been legally declared incompetent.

93
by Sid (not verified) :: Fri, 08/08/2008 - 6:22pm

They weren't willing participants. You define them as willing because they didn't release him, which is nonsensical.