Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

12 Jan 2010

The Week in Quotes: January 12, 2010

compiled by Rory Hickey

SCOREBOARD OPERATORS FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT YOUR DEFENSE

"Let me tell you something, that dude is scary. We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart. I don't ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I'll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again."

-- Cardinals defensive back Antrel Rolle on Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers' sublime performance against the Cardinals defense, in a losing effort. (Yahoo!)

WELL YOU BEAT YOURSELVES, IF THAT COUNTS

"I'd have been booing us, too, the way we played. Playing the way we played today, we weren't going to beat anybody."

-- Patriots quarterback Tom Brady after the Patriots' terrible performance in a 33-14 home loss to the Ravens. Patriots fans booed their team. (ESPN)

NEVER HAVE TRUER WORDS BEEN SPOKEN FROM A MAN NAMED T-SIZZLE

"Had to give them that humbling ass-whippin'."

-- Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs on Baltimore's performance in their wild card round game against the Patriots. (Yahoo!)

THE WHOLE TEAM FOLLOWED YOUR EXAMPLE SHAWN

"They whooped our ass!"

-- Patriots defensive back Shawn Springs on the Ravens' performance against the Patriots. (Yahoo!)

DESEAN JACKSON HAS LARGE TALONS

"Mike Jenkins ain't never shut me down, so y'all chill out over there. Them boys are scared of me. I'm a dual threat on that field. They be having like four people on your boy out there, but it's all good. I probably get man coverage like ten percent every game. But I like those odds. I'll take that."

-- Eagles wide receiver DeSean Jackson discussing Cowboys cornerback Mike Jenkins and the Cowboys defensive philosophy during a video appearance on UStream. (ESPN Dallas)

"It's just talk. I find it quite funny, I guess. He doesn't do as much talking on the field. I mean -- computer, field? It's not physical. I think it's kind of funny. We don't really have nothing to talk about. It's been two games. Look at the stats. We let our stats talk. We let our game play talk. It's been a lot of talk, too, about double-covering or triple-covering this guy. I haven't seen it yet. We single it up. We call [man] every play. There's one man on him and we're just sitting in it."

-- Jenkins' response to Jackson's comments.

THE EAGLES NEED SOME MEAT TENDERIZER, SALT, BAKING SODA OR URINE

"That's just to give you something to talk about. He's a good player and certain players can actually back that up. He might be one of those guys. Of course, we'll have our stingers out, too, waiting for him."

-- Cowboys linebacker Bradie James reacting to Eagles wide receiver DeSean Jackson's comments saying that the Eagles were going to "sting [the Cowboys'] ass" in their third meeting. (ESPN Dallas)

ONE THING THAT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED AT FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: IF YOU RUN THE BALL A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIMES YOU WIN. IT'S A LAW LIKE WATER OR DINOSAURS.

"To me, we should be favorites. ... I mean in the whole tournament. You know the way that I feel. I think we have the best defense, I know we do. I know we have the best rushing attack. Those are two huge factors in our favor. With a couple of exceptions on our staff, myself probably, I think we have a great coaching staff."

-- Jets coach Rex Ryan declaring that the Jets, a 9-7 team who made the playoffs largely because the Colts and Bengals were not playing at full strength, should be the Vegas favorite to win the Super Bowl. (ESPN)

IT SEEMS LIKE THE JETS WERE PUT IN A COFFIN CORNER

"I'd never punted in the NFL. I had one punt in college. I punted one game in high school when our guy was sick. I was not very comfortable out there. I'm bad enough that I'm a good pooch punter. I tried to hit it as good as I could, and that's where it's going to end up."

-- Jets kicker Jay Feely, on filling in for punter Steve Weatherford after Weatherford had an irregular heartbeat prior to Saturday's game against the Bengals and was scratched. (National Football Post)

WHERE'D YOU GET THAT COMEBACK FROM ... THE TOILET STORE?

"I did something yesterday that I can't believe even I did. I picked up the phone and I reached out to Al Davis. So I called Mr. Davis, I have not spoken with him yet, but I'm happy to help out in any way I can. I'd love to help JaMarcus Russell if he wants help. I'd love to help Tom Cable and that organization. It's important. Listen, seven straight seasons where they've lost 11 or more games? Something's not right."

-- Former Raiders quarterback Rich Gannon discussing how he contacted Raiders owner Al Davis in hopes of helping him out. (USA Today)

"Maybe it's Rich that needs the help."

-- Raiders senior executive John Herrera's response to Gannon wanting to possibly help the franchise. Obviously.

'CAUSE THERE AIN'T NO DOUBT I LOVE THIS LAND, GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.

"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."

"Of course. I mean, there's nothing better than being American. So, I mean, this is the greatest feeling. If you don't love it, leave it! USA, number one!"

-- Exchange after Iowa's victory in the Orange Bowl in which FOX's Chris Myers asks Iowa quarterback Ricky Stanzi "a question." (The Sporting Blog)

"HEY, *I* OWN THE REDSKINS!!" -- DAN SNYDER

"This season, the Eagles owned the Giants, the Giants owned the Cowboys, and the Cowboys owned the Eagles ... Everyone owned the Redskins."

-- NBC play-by-play man Al Michaels before Saturday's Eagles-Cowboys game. (Big Blue Interactive)

I'M SURE SOMEONE ON TWITTER HAS PEYTON MANNING'S ADDRESS

"Do any body got payton address I got to go get my award"

-- Titans running back Chris Johnson disagreeing with Associated Press' choice of Colts quarterback Peyton Manning for NFL MVP. (Twitter)

PETE CARROLL THOUGHT THIS WAS SO FUNNY JOE MCKNIGHT RECEIVED A CAR

"Speaking of Coach Carroll, I just want everyone to know, I completely disagree with his decision to go to the NFL. Statistics show that it's not a good choice."

-- Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez playfully addressing new Seahawks coach Pete Carroll's decision to leave USC and go to the NFL. He was referencing Carroll saying that Sanchez going to the NFL was a bad decision after Sanchez declared for the NFL Draft as a junior. (Los Angeles Times)

WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH AIRLINE FOOD?

"#Whatsfunnierthan [sic] people buying all these weight loss pills and then not working out. People the weight isnt going to loss its self"

-- Ravens defensive back Fabian Washington giving his thoughts on one method losing weight to fulfill New Year's resolutions. (Twitter)

OH OCHOCINCO, USTED ES UN NIÑO MALO

"I had sex yesterday. With some of the moves I did -- I should be fine."

-- Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco on the health of his left knee prior to Saturday's playoff game. (New York Post)

HOW ARE YOU EVER GOING TO GET OFF REVIS ISLAND?

"I'll be back bigger and badder with a wide range of sh*t-talking."

-- Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco on what his future would be like after Cincinnati's opening-round loss to the Jets. (Yahoo!)

LAWRENCE TAYLOR SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE FOURTH MAN IN THE BOOTH

"Good Snap, Good Hold, Bad Kick."

-- NBC color commentator Joe Theismann on Bengals kicker Shayne Graham's missed field goal in the fourth quarter of the Bengals' loss. (Twitter)

"If you don't have a kicker who can't make clutch kicks it's deflating."

-- Theismann, giving away one of the secrets of kicking. (Twitter)

I KNEW IT WAS YOU, FREDO. YOU BROKE MY HEART.

"Real classy ... Now I know I was 100% wrong about you and I paid for it dearly."

-- Former Seahawks president Tim Ruskell's text message sent to former coach Jim Mora after Ruskell learned that Mora was campaigning for Mike Holmgren to return to the Seahawks as the team's president. (The Seattle Times)

HEY, IT HAD TO BE BETTER THAN THE JAY LENO SHOW, RIGHT?

"I know we've got to hurry this up because Dick [Ebersol]'s got to get to Saturday Night Live. Charles [Barkley] is going to be on. He probably won't be very funny, but I'll probably check it out too."

-- Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo, talking about his postgame interview after the Cowboy's victory over the Eagles, which ended at 11:28 p.m. (The Huddle)

WELL IT SEEMS THE MIKE HOLMGREN ERA IS OFF TO AS GOOD A START AS ANY PREVIOUS BROWNS' ERA

"[I feel] like I've been betrayed and stabbed in the back. I'm not just insulted by the number, but by the fact they consider me just a kick returner. I'm so much more than that."

-- Browns kick returner/wide receiver/Wildcat triggerman/wunderkind Josh Cribbs on the latest contract offer he received from the Browns. (Cleveland Plain-Dealer)

WORSE THAN GOING TO THE BEARS?

"I don't think Martz would work well with Jay Cutler at all. He's a terrible ... coach and he would ruin that kid like he ruined Kurt Warner and drove him out of St. Louis. He's the worst thing that could happen to any young quarterback."

-- Former Rams executive Charlie Armey giving his thoughts on Mike Martz potentially becoming the Bears' offensive coordinator. (ESPN Chicago)

CAN CLINTON PORTIS BE THE GUY WITH THE COSTUMES AGAIN INSTEAD OF THE GUY WHO CRITICIZES EVERYTHING?

"I think Jason has enough trouble in getting the plays in and worrying about this, compared to controlling the huddle and making sure, 'Oh, we do this and we do that.'"

-- Redskins running back Clinton Portis on quarterback Jason Campbell being overmatched as a team captain. (The Huddle)

"Obviously, he doesn't have the respect of the locker room to be a captain. For someone to try to take a shot at me at the end of the season, after they haven't even been around, only speaks about their character anyways."

-- Campbell, responding to Portis' comments.

The value of a man resides in what he gives and not in what he is capable of receiving. Send a quote to quotes-at-footballoutsiders.com

Posted by: Rory Hickey on 12 Jan 2010

54 comments, Last at 15 Jan 2010, 10:59am by DaveRichters

Comments

1
by lester bangs (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 11:44am

Trying a little too hard on the headlines, son.

29
by Rory Hickey :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 4:23pm

I mean this is the playoffs, you can't hold anything back.

"You play to win the game" - Herm

2
by JasonC23 :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:23pm

So glad the Chris Myers-Ricky Stanzi exchange made it in here. I think I kind of understand what Myers was trying to same, sort of...OK, not really, but I loved Stanzi taking the nonsense and running with it. Watching the other Iowa players laugh their butts off was priceless.

10
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:58pm

I didn't see it. If Stanzi was clowning Myers, he is my new favorite player.

30
by FooBarFooFoo (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 4:34pm

... and if he wasn't clowning, he'll probably score less than McNabb in the Wonderlic.

3
by Theo :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:27pm

Lose the Twitter things.

11
by dryheat :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:59pm

I couldn't agree more. Just a tool for Ochocinco's clowning and Chris Johnson's humility.

14
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:06pm

Twitter is the Warhol 2.0. Everyone gets to be famously stupid for 15 minutes.

4
by Paul R :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:28pm

MEMO FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF "I COULD HAVE DONE IT BETTER"

"Trying a little too hard on the headlines, son."

--Football Outsiders poster lester bangs on Rory Hickey's January 12th "The Week in Quotes" column.

5
by lester bangs (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:32pm

Heh. Touche.

My point: brevity is the soul of wit.

54
by DaveRichters :: Fri, 01/15/2010 - 10:59am

That was Shakespeare's point.

6
by nat :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:35pm

One thing you have to say for the Patriots: They don't throw each other under the bus when they lose.

They all jump under the bus together.

Technically, that's two things. But you know what I mean.

7
by t.d. :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:39pm

Everybody knows Charlie Armey was a resounding success without Martz, so he's gotta be right.

12
by Jimmy :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:01pm

I think it should also be said that it might be difficult to make Jay Cutler play much worse than he did at times last year without chopping his right arm off (although some wag might say this would improve matters).

17
by commissionerleaf :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:25pm

Actually, Cutler probably isn't a terribly great Martz quarterback. He's not great under pressure, prone to scrambling rather than getting the ball out, and has a great arm but questionable accuracy. That said, I think Martz has gotten a bit of a bad rap based on his Detroit and San Francisco tenures (and in fact, his Detroit stay wasn't a total disaster - he made Jon Kitna a 20 TD quarterback).

Besides, Matt Forte IS absolutely a Mike Martz running back.

19
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:48pm

If I remember right, Kitna received the obligatory Martzian concussions as well. Martz is a good offensive coordinator when matched with a personnel guy who will maintain offensive line quality above all other values.

27
by MilkmanDanimal :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 3:43pm

Well, that just describes the current Bears roster to a T, doesn't it?

31
by commissionerleaf :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 5:24pm

Awesome.

They hired Orlando Pace, though, right?

Right?

24
by The Ninjalectual :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 2:42pm

If only we lived in a world where a "mastermind" coach could, say, adjust his style of coaching to get the most of of the talent on the field. That sure would be nice, but alas.

"Just look at that pumpkin."
-John Madden, looking at the moon.

8
by Theo :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:51pm

Martz 'ruined' Kurt Warner?
He's obviously talking about the 79 TDs Warner threw in 1997, and never came close to that during the rest of his career...

28
by Levente from Hungary :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 4:21pm

Exactly. What the hell is he talking about? He was the OC during Greatest Show on Turf!

9
by dcaslin :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 12:55pm

"LAWRENCE TAYLOR SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE FOURTH MAN IN THE BOOTH"

Thank you! I was thinking the EXACT same thing as I was watching! I was hoping maybe he could have taken out Gibbs while he was at it.

13
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:03pm

As much as I like this piece each week, there are times when I wish the Johnny Unitas gene could be inserted into NFL players. The one that caused Unitas to say, more than once, when confronted with the media nonsense about bulletin board material, "Talk is cheap. Let's play.".

16
by Yuri (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:16pm

Yeah I second that. Pre/after game bravado gets a little boring. Incidentally, if you have to do DeSean Jackson vs Cowboys exchange, you want to include Reid's reaction to whether the tweet was a bad thing: "I'm not even sure what a tweet is, but it wasn't a good tweet I guess."

15
by CWS (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:09pm

I'm pretty sure that the Bears would be thrilled if Martz "ruins" Cutler like he "ruined" Warner...

18
by Marko :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:34pm

Romo was right about Barkley on SNL. It was so painfully unfunny that I turned it off.

26
by tgt2 (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 3:12pm

The quotes show skit was good. I don't remember anything else being worthwhile

20
by Arkaein :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 1:59pm

Fun fact after reading the Antrel Rolle quote.

If you combined the two defenses from last weekend's track meet, you would have an entire pro bowl secondary (Woodson and DRC at CB, Nick Collins and Adrian Wilson at safety), plus a pro bowler at LB (Clay Matthews, after being moved up from being an alternate), and D-line (Dockett).

21
by Phil Osopher :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 2:05pm

"I don't think Martz would work well with Jay Cutler at all. He's a terrible ... coach and he would ruin that kid like he ruined Kurt Warner and drove him out of St. Louis. He's the worst thing that could happen to any young quarterback"

Agree

Martz is hilariously horrible. See: FO's Mike Martz Award for being oblivious to good coaching decisions. "I don't care about clock management, sacks, or turnovers" --Mike Martz.

22
by JasonK :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 2:16pm

Regarding the Al Michaels quote: I love the Bigblueinteractive.com as much as the next guy (probably more), but a retelling by an anonymous poster going by the handle "RicFlair" probably isn't the best of places to cite as a source of quoted material.

23
by dryheat :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 2:29pm

Woooo!

25
by E :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 2:58pm

true, but I recall hearing it live and laughing so consider me the second source

32
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 8:38pm

The Jets "made the playoffs largely because the Colts and Bengals were not playing at full strength"

This says to me that the Jets wouldn't have beaten the Bengals if the Bengals were at full strength. Its a shame it comes out dated 12 Jan, three days after the Jets beat the Bengals though, cos it makes Rory look like a bit of a douchebag with an agenda.

33
by Theo :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 8:47pm

Bangals gave you a win with palmer's younger brother throwing and running johnson instead of benson in week 17.

37
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 10:44pm

Theo, the point isn't that the Bengals gave the Jets the win, the point is that even had they competed, odds seem likely the Bengals still would have lost, so the comment that the Jets made the playoffs "largely because the Colts and Bengals were not playing at full strength" is inaccurate.

Remember: Chad Ochocinco got injured in week 17 warmups, The Jets had a punter, and the game was played in NY not Cincinatti.

34
by Eddo :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 9:00pm

I find that quote amusing moreso because, prior to playing the Colts in week 16, Ryan declared his team to be out of the playoff picture. Now he thinks they should be favorites.

I understand it's all posturing (Ryan is a smart guy and likely realizes his team is not as strong as the Colts or Chargers), but it's still worth a chuckle.

35
by Rory Hickey :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 10:05pm

Just because the Bengals lost on Saturday that doesn't mean if they played 100 times the Jets would win 100 times. I think we can say the Jets are a better team than the Bengals but the fact is the Jets were largely aided in making the playoffs by the Colts and Bengals electing to rest starters. I don't know how you can say this is false. That doesn't mean I don't like the Jets, it's just a fact.

"You play to win the game" - Herm

39
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 12:41am

Its false because you didn't say "aided", you said "largely because". I don't have a problem with "aided" as it implies other circumstances (like being good at football) may have had more of an impact. "Jets coach Rex Ryan declaring that the Jets, a 9-7 team who made the playoffs largely because the Colts and Bengals were not playing at full strength, should be the Vegas favorite to win the Super Bowl."

The Jets were better than the Bengals when it counted. They won 100% of games v Bengals when it counted. Also 100% of games when it didn't count. Extrapolating that out to 100 games = 100 wins. You can't argue otherwise without disolving into absurdity.

The Playoff game had definate improvements for the Bengals over their week 17 game:
1. Ocho had a week to get over the kneee injury suffered in week 17 warmups
2. New York did not have a punter
3. The game was in Cincinatti
4. Cincinatti starters were better rested

This doesn't factor that the result of the week 17 game didn't matter for the Bengals. I'll conceed that if the Bengals are playing week 17 with starters, the week 17 game matters enough to them.

But given the less favourable conditions in week 17 for a Bengals win, i can't see how you argue that Cincy would have won, so i don't see how you can claim that the Jets made the playoffs largely because the Bengals rested their starters. The Colts game i'll accept, but i think its a stretch to say the Bengals resting their starters affected anything other than the margin of defeat in week 17.

40
by Eddo :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:01am

"The Jets were better than the Bengals when it counted. They won 100% of games v Bengals when it counted. Also 100% of games when it didn't count. Extrapolating that out to 100 games = 100 wins. You can't argue otherwise without disolving into absurdity."

Look, I don't have a dog in this fight, but the above statement is ridiculous. Even ignoring the ridiculous sample size issues (we can extrapolate two wins to 100 now?), by your logic, every division series should end in a sweep, because, after all, the team that won the first game should extrapolate to win all games between the two teams.

43
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:46am

So when did the 2009 Bengals beat the 2009 Jets?

Every comment against my extrapolation comes down to this question. This is when the arguement gets absurd, because to argue otherwise means we need to enter a bizzaro world where the Bengals actually beat the Jets this year under the circumstances of your chosing, or played the Jets played another mythical/imagined game against the Bengals, etc, etc.

There are merits to the absurdity, especially in helping to predict the results of games that haven't been played yet, but its pointless to argue about it.

44
by Eddo :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:54am

They didn't. But you can't assume that just because the Jets beat them twice, that the Jets would win 100 out of 100 times, which is what you claimed.

50
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 5:53pm

This is what i meant by "disolves into absurdity" because i can claim that the result in all 100 mythical week 17 games where the Bengals play at full strength should be the same, given absolutely everything is exactly the same in each of the 100 games. Its not even a hypothetical question because teams can't play each other 100 times, its absurd, and has basis in reality.

36
by dryheat :: Tue, 01/12/2010 - 10:31pm

I'll go one step further and say I think the Jets could've beaten the Colts A-team. I think it was a five point deficit when Manning was pulled? Close game, and the Jets seem to match up well with Indy -- Revis can shut down Wayne, and the defense can generate enough pressure on Manning to make him uncomfortable.

38
by tuluse :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 12:29am

I hate to be the guy that ruins a good joke, but Rex Ryan didn't say anything about the quantity of running. He said his team was the best running team.

47
by Podge (not verified) :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 11:30am

And they only won 9 games, which are the games where you'd expect them to pad running stats. If he was the coach of a 14 win team that had the #1 running attack because it had rushed more than any other team or something then yeah, its an absurd statement, but I think its a reach to make a joke out of what Ryan said.

Of course you could argue that they are the best running team because they have no choice, being one of the worst passing teams. You could say that.

49
by tuluse :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 4:16pm

The title still doesn't make any sense with the quote that follows. You can make fun of what Ryan said if you want, but he doesn't say anywhere that more running = winning.

41
by Jon Silverberg (not verified) :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:07am

I'm with Jimmy Oz...the Jets might well have beaten Indy even if their starters didn't get the last 20 minutes off; we'll never know. That aside, how does anyone who watched the week 17 game with an objective pair of eyes think that the Bengals wouldn't have lost as badly playing everyone they rested? The Jets blew their doors off, and the Bengals offense (particularly the passing game) was awful! Does Cincy have a first-string quarterback in front of Palmer, and other first-string receivers that would have produced better than 1 of 11? Was that outfit going to come back from their 24-0 halftime deficit if they had played the whole second half? Wasn't the first-string defensive line wearing the same roller skates this past Saturday that the back-ups were wearing the previous Sunday night? The Jets gave what was far and away their best performance of the year in the week 17 game...On Saturday, a significantly less-stellar team effort was good enough to beat the Bengals' complete A team handily in their own yard...Mr. Hickey's use of the phrase "Jets largely aided" in the same sentence with "Bengals electing to rest starters" cannot be supported by what happened at the Meadowlands...we expect better from this website's writing staff...

45
by Rory Hickey :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 2:12am

It's flattering that you would consider me a member of the Football Outsiders writing staff. I'm actually just an intern but I appreciate the title even when getting disparaged. That is a reasonable argument (and not only because you referred to me as Mr. Hickey instead of douchebag). The only thing I'll disagree with is you saying that we'll never know what would have happened if the Colts played their starters and then theorizing what would have happened if the Bengals did play theirs.
While I will concede that the Jets probably would have beat the Bengals even if they had something to play for I think it's fairly obvious to anyone who watched the Jets-Colts game with an objective pair of eyes that the Colts would have defeated the Jets if their starters played the whole game. At the 5:36 mark of the third quarter (when Wayne/Manning etc. left) the Jets were being out-gained 254-149. Their offensive possessions to that point had resulted as follows: punt, punt, punt, FG, end of half, punt. They were really only in the game because of a special teams TD. While nothing is certain in the NFL I think you and I can agree that up 15-10 at home with twenty minutes to go and Peyton Manning at the helm the Colts are most likely going to win that game, thus making the Jets 8-6 and not in the playoffs.

Of course none of this matters now because the Jets are in the playoffs and have advanced. For the record, I like Rex Ryan. So there.

"You play to win the game" - Herm

46
by dryheat :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 9:08am

At the 5:36 mark of the third quarter (when Wayne/Manning etc. left) the Jets were being out-gained 254-149. Their offensive possessions to that point had resulted as follows: punt, punt, punt, FG, end of half, punt. They were really only in the game because of a special teams TD.

And yet it was a 1-touchdown game with 20 minutes remaining. No matter what the yardage was, no matter what their previous possessions resulted in, and no matter how they scored their touchdown, the Jets could easily have won that game regardless.

And while I agree that if the Jets played the Bengals 100 times this year the Jets would win 100, so it is true that the Jaguars and Falcons would have beaten the Jets 100 times out of 100. The Buccaneers would have beaten the Saints 50 times out of 100. And the Raiders and Chiefs would have beaten the Steelers 100 times out of 100.

I really can't believe somebody is advocating this on this website.

51
by Mr Shush :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 9:57pm

It all depends on what you mean by "played 100 times". Because if you mean something like "played 100 times in the exact same circumstances, not merely in terms of player availability and what was at stake but down to who had what for breakfast, which blades of glass were broken, and the location and velocity of every molecule in the air within 1000 miles of the stadium (in parallel universes/possible worlds where whatever was different had nothing to do with the game and no chance of impacting on it)" then I think that view is plausible. In fact, I think it's probably correct. If, on the other hand, you're talking about taking a random sample of 100 possible worlds that meet some rough-and-ready "near enough" criteria, or simply talking about actually having the teams face off twice a week all year long, then it's obviously false.

53
by dryheat :: Thu, 01/14/2010 - 9:38am

...then I think that view is plausible. In fact, I think it's probably correct....

I can't see how it would be correct...or even plausible. Human performance is still going to change. A pass that was dropped will be caught. A pass that was caught will be dropped. A false start doesn't happen. A key player gets hurt on a block or tackle. A quarterback releases the ball a nanosecond later, turning a touchdown into a deflection/interception. A time out is called in a different spot. A kick is missed instead of made.

If Roboteam was playing, possibly. But I don't even know of a machine/robot/cyborg that can exactly duplicate performance over and over again with no variation. Anti-missile missiles sometimes miss. Soda bottles leave the factory half-filled. Hondas leave the factory with a faulty ignition switch.

48
by Led :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 12:42pm

Pretty sure the Colts played the same defensive personnel throughout the game, so the fact that they rested Manning, Wayne, Clark, etc., doesn't say anything about the sucess the Jets had running the ball in the 4th quarter. I understand that Mathis was resting and Feeney was limited, but that was true the whole game. It obviously would've been more difficult for the Jets to win if the offensive starters played the whole game and the Colts winning would be the more likely outcome, but it's hardly impossible for the Jets to have won.

42
by Jon Silverberg (not verified) :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:11am

And sorry, I forgot 3 points...it was 27-0 at the half...

52
by Jon Silverberg (not verified) :: Wed, 01/13/2010 - 10:26pm

Dear Intern Hickey:

Thank you for your response...we may yet teach these galoots how to argue about this violent sport in civilized fashion...(actually, of course, the FO conversations are usually conducted at a much higher level than most of the other NFL website "discussions...")

I agree with dryheat's post #46 regarding whether the Jets might possibly have beaten the Colts...and I do not at all agree that it's illogical to attribute less certainty to the outcome of the last 20 minutes of the Colts game if all the offensive starters finished than to any possible outcomes in the week 17 Bengals game if you hypothesize more playing time for any combination of Bengals who partially/fully sat ...in the Colts game, you say that the "most likely" outcome of a five point game with 20 minutes left is a win by the up-until-then undefeated team over the then 7-7 team in the undefeated team's yard if the undefeated team kept playing the starters who actually sat after that...who would argue with that? But "most likely" doesn't negate "we'll never know what would have happened..."

On the other hand, please find me someone else besides yourself who wants to dispute this much-stronger-than-"most likely" statement: the Jets blew the doors off the Bengals in week 17 playing against the Bengals B team...they played lots better than they did in week 18, and won handily in week 18 against the Bengals A team, when the return of a healthy Cedric Benson seriously upgraded their running game, and the Jets played poorer run defense than they had the week before...it's no stretch to say that it is hard to conceive of a way any combination of Bengals could have played enough better passing offense and enough better run defense to change the week 17 outcome against the Jets team's week 17 performance...the intensity of the week 17 Jets performance was their best of the year, totally apart from anything the Bengals did or did not do...

By the way, do you think that, if Benson played in week 17, he would have been in good enough physical condition to be capable of performing the way he did in week 18?...if that were true, he'd have played the first 35 minutes in week 17, just like Palmer did...Some significant portion of the reason Benson sat was because he needed to heal up, just like the two Bengals DL's who sat...

And with that, I do agree that it's time to turn the page...to the Chargers...

One more by the way: I do love your ending each response with Herm's quote...I always liked Herm Edwards as Jets coach...he got a bad rap, and Woody Johnson did not do right by him when Edwards wanted a contract extension after the 2005 season, when the team was destroyed by injuries (this after Edwards and Pennington gave him four playoff games [2-2] in the three prior years, in a division with the Patriots)...Edwards went to join his friend Carl Peterson (the team President at KC) only after Johnson wouldn't give him the contract extension...there is really no reason to suppose that the 2006 "Mangenius"-led 2006 playoff run would not have happened if Herm had continued as Jets coach...