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Jadeveon Clowney Traded to Seahawks, Laremy Tunsil to Texans

The Houston Texans, who had reached so high for Laremy Tunsil, instead settled on dealing Jadeveon Clowney to the Seahawks for a third-round pick, Barkevious Mingo, and Jacob Martin. Mingo was reportedly set to be released, and the Texans were likely to get a third-round compensation pick from Clowney's free agency next season. 

EDIT: The Texans doubled-down in actually landing Tunsil -- sending away what is reportedly two first-round picks and a second-round pick for him and Kenny Stills. 

Bill O'Brien is not a good general manager! 

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Comments

71 comments, Last at 04 Sep 2019, 7:52pm

1 I only get this move in the…

I only get this move in the sense that the Texans were never going to pay clowney and so they got something for him rather than letting him walk. However, how do you let a situation devolve to a point where a valuable pass-rusher is lost for a song. I don't think jadeveon clowney is a great player but this is still a massive downgrade no matter what you think.

Edit

 

In a shocking bit of news, the Texans are going to pay 7 million for Clowney. This, this amounts to trading away a good player for a third round pick(would have gotten a pick in compensation anyways), some waiver wire filler, and 8 million in savings. Bill O'Brien is on drugs.

2 Move makes no sense

I get it that they wanted Tunsil, but they still could have gotten a 2nd rounder from Miami and decent running backs. Hell, a 3rd rounder and two players from Miami is a better deal than this one, simply because it will be a higher pick than the Seahawks . This is why you need a real general manager, and is the kind of thing I worried Adam Gase was going to do, but thankfully didn't get the chance in New York. Some of it was driven by Clowney wanting to go to a contender, but Philadelphia would have been a better idea than him and I have to imagine they would have beaten a third rounder and two back-up linebackers.

4 Another point to bring up:

Clowney isn't an elite pass rusher. He's never had more than 9.5 sacks in a year while playing with J.J. Watt. He's not Frank Clark. Seattle didn't give up much, and they'll recoup the third round pick if they let him go next offseason (smart move), but this isn't the Khalil Mack trade where the recipient vaults up the rungs to Super Bowl contender. Interesting thing too: Seattle gave up more for Sheldon Richardson than they did for Clowney. As bad as MacCagnan was in New York, he's still better than what the Texans have at GM right now.

5 Would it have been that hard…

Would it have been that hard for the Texans to hire an interim GM? Like elevate the head of pro scouting or something? Any warm body with half a clue would make a better GM than O’Brien.

6 I think they're still hoping Casserio comes over

when his contract with the Patriots is over.  But the absurd thing is that trading Clowney like this means Casserio won't leave for Houston, because, why the hell would you join those idiots?  Honestly, the first thing any GM will do once they are safely hired in Houston is fire O'Brien.  So root for the Texans to win 9 games if you want this foolishness to last.

38 Yeah...if I'm Caserio, I'm…

Yeah...if I'm Caserio, I'm in no hurry to take over a team missing two firsts and a second rounder, a head coach who, whatever I think of him personally, is not a very good coach and will likely be higher than me on the organizational power chart, and a roster that frankly is ordinary.  No thanks, McNairs -- I'll wait for the next call.

Now that I think of it, ownership is the problem that needs to be sorted out before management.

7 So pleased Miani didn't do…

So pleased Miani didn't do this, though I saw speculation Miami were after a #1 and Clowney for Tunsil. Still seems like a terrible idea for the Dolphins. Now they just need to make nice with Tunsil again.

Also, the Texans have made an utter dogs breakfast of this, and Seattle should be indicted for theft.

8 Jadeveon Clowney is not an A…

Jadeveon Clowney is not an A+ pass-rusher, but he leads the NFL in tackles for loss on running plays in the last three years.

https://t.co/vy85MK3fBg?amp=1

10 Clowney is a really really…

Clowney is a really really good player. And still young.
A third and change is a steal. Why did the Texans want to trade him?
I would have paid Clowney and let Watt walk.

12 Yeah, Clowney is a really good run defender

yet he's never had more than 10 sacks in a season and you would let your guy who gets ten to twenty sacks a year walk?  It's not like Watt is old, he just has had injuries- which is also true for Clowney.  I would never prioritize Clowney over Watt until near the end of Watt's career.  

34 Pure organizational…

Pure organizational dysfunction. It's not that they wanted to trade him, it's that they somehow couldn't work out terms on an extension, despite having tons of cap room. They didn't have to choose between Clowney and Watt.

16 In light of the discussions…

In light of the discussions on here surrounding Andrew Luck's career over the past few days, if O'Brien is going to stick around, its time for DeShaun Watson and his agent to begin planning their route out of Houston. 

24 You'd think a guy who…

You'd think a guy who coached Brady for Belichick would have some grasp of the importance of keeping the qb comfortable, but it wouldn't be the first tree branch to be different from the Belichikian trunk.

On the other hand, I don't think the Texans' resident billionaire will be toolin' around high, in his Bentley tonight, with a briefcase filled with cash and illegally obtained prescriptions!

(edit) Good grief, just read about the Tunsil trade......O'Brien's the one who has all the phony narc scrips in Houston; the rest of the town is as sober as a mortician in a maternity ward!

63 I don't understand how any…

I don't understand how any of these guys can work with Belichick and not seem to be even close to Belichick in terms of understanding player value.

Maybe Brian Flores does, based on the Tunsil trade? 

70 I've concluded that…

I've concluded that Belichick is effectively a football Mentat.  He's got an incredible command of detailed information that he can call up at any point in time and process it faster than anyone else in football.  But almost nobody else has the same innate ability.  Combine that with the fact that he's gifted when it comes to teaching players and it makes his process almost impossible to duplicate.  Not saying others can't have success, but they can't do it by trying to duplicate his process, which is what all his coaching tree seems to want to do, naturally I suppose, given the success he has had.

 

17 Wow, the 2nd part of that:

for Houston it's a boom or bust, all-in for this year. Giving up that many draft picks, wow. For the Dolphins, this only makes sense for the owner. Tanking this year for guys who may not come out (Herbert or Tua), when you may already have the QB answer on the roster as long as you protect him. Instead they're re-enacting Josh Rosen's rookie season. Apparently Flores doesn't realize that coach got fired. I'm just not sure about this. They'll need that 2nd first round pick to get a tackle. I guess the Pats are going to keep winning that division until football becomes illegal.

21 I"m a Ducks fan, I should have

In reply to by The Ancient Mariner

Known that.  Oops. That said Herbert has already gotten hurt in college, so maybe the Fins will need linemen for him anyway.  Tua's pretty good escaping the rush.

22 Also think I was overreacting at first;

This could work out great for the current Dolphins administration, as long as Ross has patience and doesn't pull the plug, a la Cleveland.  The draft picks are great potential, but I might remind everyone that the Jets had 4 first rounders in 2000 due to losing Keyshawn Johnson and Belichick, and they got solid to pro bowl starters out of all those picks: Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Anthony Becht (only solid) and Chad Pennington.  They still only won the division once since then.

20 Reports....

Reports now suggest that Houston haven’t finalized a contract extension with Tunsil as part of the trade. This is utterly negligent, Tunsil and his agent now have a dream negotiating position. 

As for Miami, I think this trade was too good to turn down, almost regardless of the current state of their roster. But, yes, this season is now a total write-off, even from the standpoint of evaluating Rosen. If I was a fan I wouldn’t bother turning up. 

30 At least Tunsil is under…

In reply to by BJR

At least Tunsil is under contract for 2019 and 2020, and can be tagged if necessary in 2021(if tags still exist in the new CBA)

32 True, but this is still…

True, but this is still quickly going to become a headache for them. Zeke Elliott is at the same stage of his rookie contract and he is currently holding out. Even if Tunsil is happy to play on his rookie contract for now, if he plays at all well this year Houston are likely to have an unhappy player, with massive leverage in contract negotiations, next spring. 

65 I think the difference…

I think the difference between Elliott and Tunsil is that Tunsil plays a position where teams are willing to give guys 2nd and 3rd contracts.  So it's not as critical for Tunsil to use all his leverage now. 

19 I... did not see that coming…

I... did not see that coming. Tunsil was one of the most valuable pieces the team had going forward, and a young LT is a premium position. Then again that's a heck of a lot of draft capital. What I dislike the worst is the implication that Rosen is not part of the future plans. Wouldn't make a ton of sense otherwise. And yet, again, it's a TON of draft capital. Maybe they just felt they couldn't pass it up.

23 Wow Houston wow. I don't…

Wow Houston wow. I don't know how good Laremy Tunsil is, but few players are worth 2 first round picks. Khalil Mack is one of the 5 best defensive players and it was still a hottly debated issue. I can't see Tunsil being worth this price.

25 On top of that, they…

On top of that, they currently have no long term deal in place with Tunsil. They are going to have to negotiate an extension at some stage in the near future, having already sunk those picks into acquiring him. It’s a train wreck. 

26 Washington wouldn't have…

Washington wouldn't have taken one of those 1sts for Trent Williams? I haven't seen Tunsil play, but there's no way he can be better than the Silverback, right? That trade would have made more sense for all three teams IMO.

28 Washington, in accordance…

Washington, in accordance with Daniel Snyder's defiance of logic, has placed a higher value on preventing Williams from forcing his way out than on salvaging the most they can from a situation that has clearly gotten away from them. I don't know if Houston actually made an offer, but from what I read all offers for Williams have fallen on deaf ears.

29 What an absurd day for the…

What an absurd day for the Texans. They got a player they're going to cut, a bottom-of-the-roster guy, and a pick slightly better than what they'd get as a compensatory a year later for Clowney. Perhaps they thought they wouldn't get the compensatory pick if they have designs of their own on big-ticket free agents. They'll certainly need to spend in free agency now that they sent three top picks to Miami for an average LT with some upside, who they don't have long-term control over, and Kenny Stills. Stills is especially confusing here, since it's not clear to me that he's that much better than Will Fuller or Keke Coutee. The sum total of all the moves is that not only are the Texans getting fleeced by teams that have general managers, the coach who seems to be acting as the GM isn't especially good at determining the value of the very players he's been coaching.

40 I just read that. Wow, so…

I just read that. Wow, so what was the point then, to save 8 million? It makes no sense on any level. It's easy and mostly correct to blame O'Brien, but a lot falls on Bob McNair for firing and then not replacing his general manager. For a successful business man, it's a shockingly poor business move.

I wonder if he at least called Morey to ask what he thought of this move. On the other hand, Morey these himself days  seems to be all for trading away picks.

31 I can't say I'm all that…

I can't say I'm all that surprised, as I have always viewed O'Brien as a clown. After all, he was hired to fix the QB position, but he went through a nearly endless string of bums before Watson basically landed in his lap. And even then, he seems to have been unaware of what he had, as he chose to start the season with Tommy "Macho Man" Savage as the starting QB, saying he gave the Texans the best chance to win. Of course, when Savage inevitably crapped his pants in the first half, he was "forced" to bring in Watson, who proceeded to play very well, not only in that game, but for the next couple of months. Clearly, anyone with half a brain could see that Watson gave them a far better chance to win. Yet the "QB guru" O'Brien seemed completely oblivious to that obvious fact, despite having seen them both in practice. As I said, he's a real clown.

55 All of this. As a Colts fan,…

All of this.

As a Colts fan, I'm just cackling. This was a franchise that had more than half a decade with the most talented roster in the division but ruined it with horrible decisions, stubbornly bad coaching from supposed QB gurus, and now this, just in time for the roster to start getting weaker with age AND their young probably-a-stud QB to get paid.

Irsay shenanigans aside, I totally get why other fanbases are sick of the Colts and their luck (despite their own mismanagement) and why they'd rightly point at Luck's surprise retirement being entirely fair to that fanbase; Nevermind having Andrew Luck fall into their lap they way they did, this is a complete list of the coaches and show runners they've had in their division in since Tom Coughlin left Jacksonville:

- Gary Kubiak
- Bill O'Brien

- Jack Del Rio
- Mike Mularkey
- Gus Bradley
- Doug Marrone

- Jeff Fisher
- Mike Munchak
- Ken Whisenhunt
- Mike Mularkey AGAIN for some reason
- Mike Vrabel

(Nevermind the parade of overdrafted quarterbacks too... Gabbert AND Bortles. Locker, Mettenberger, Vince Young. Osweiler. Wasting Mariota's talent. Etcetera.)

So even though the Colts themselves had Dungy at his most conservative, an even more conservative than that Jim Caldwell, and the likable joke that was Pagano... their list of coaches still easily tops the division. Who's the best among the rest of this group? We still don't know much about Vrabel, and there's not too much bad to say about Bradley, I guess... Suddenly Jack Del Rio looks pretty good, huh. And just when you thought Bill O'Brien couldn't get any more stubborn about the wrong things, they give him even more power and as his first series of moves, he goes and does this...

Goodness. This is just an absurd bit of fortune for Colts (and Titans, and maybe also Jaguars) fans. Each of the other three teams still has talent and some reason for optimism, but the Colts are absolutely still in the race, even without Luck, and there's very little reason to think that Houston isn't going to descend very rapidly in future years after this one. It seems pretty obvious that Caserio has worn out his welcome in NE after his contract ends, but even with the spot in Houston obviously wide open for him, he'd be wise to turn it down, just as others above have mentioned. What a disaster. I've had some Pats fans get very angry with me when I mention the luck they've had in their division, but if there's a 2nd luckiest team in that regard it is absolutely the Indianapolis Colts. I can't think of any other team with an edge that even comes close, unless you want to just give a huge boost to all three other AFC North teams just for getting to play against the Browns twice a year for 2 decades.

The best part of all this is that they likely still will win 7-11 games, which could keep O'Brien's job safe, which will just further ensure that they'll never be a serious contender for anything. 

57 "Chance favors the prepared mind"

a quote from Louis Pasteur.   The Patriots had some luck in their divisional foes; the Jets not having a good quarterback and a good coach at the same time, Pennington's injuries (which are partially Herm Edwards' fault- he left Pennington in a preseason game when Mawae, the center, was not playing, and of course the back-up center's guy broke Pennington's wrist), Nick Saban not working out in Miami, Buffalo's combination of bad luck and bad management.  But back in the mid 2000s, this idea would have been absurd.  The AFC East had 3 of the top 6 slots in the 2004 DVOA sweepstakes.  The coaches the Pats had to deal with may be worse than your list above; early Jeff Fisher was pretty good, Kubiak won a Super Bowl and Jack Del Rio was part of a Raider resurgence that got submarined by one off year and Mark Davis' foolishness.  The AFC East had Rex Ryan, and, and, and...   That should not take away from the fact that the Patriots are most definitely prepared.

66 " there's not too much bad…

" there's not too much bad to say about Bradley, I guess. "

 

Did you say what you meant to say?  Bradley has a .226 career winning percentage with double-digit losses in all 4 seasons as head coach.  Which is even more impressive when you see that his final season was only 14 games.

58 I don't get how the league…

I don't get how the league can clown Hue Jackson for not starting Baker Mayfield, but Bill OB gets a pass on all of his QB blunders, the most recent of which, as you pointed out, was leaving Watson on the bench until events forced his hand.  

 

But, in truth, I've spent much of the last 5 years watching Bill make decisions and asking my GF "How do they not just fire him for this?"  

59 The reason Hue Jackson is…

The reason Hue Jackson is rightly pilloried is his two year record with the Browns was an amazing 1-31! Bill O'Brien, rightly or wrongly, has at least made the playoffs three times in his tenure, something Hue Jackson never came close to doing.

Now I get it. Hue had a weaker team, the front office was intentionally tanking while O'Brien got the crappy afc South plus he had a talented roster...I'm not here to proclaim BOB a better coach than Hue(though frankly, what evidence suggests Hue isn't the worst coach of all time?), only to say why BOB has escaped the Hue Jackson level parody. 

67 Hue DID have an 8-8 season…

Hue DID have an 8-8 season with Oakland.  Something guys like Gus Bradley, Dave Shula and Marion Campbell can only dream of.  (Not counting the one-and-done guys like Cam Cameron and Steve Wilks.)

60 Good coaches can fail…

Good coaches can fail because if bad luck, because their system doesnt fit the time or nfl, because they are better coordinators than head coaches, and many other reasons.

Then there are bad coaches who succeed because they get a talented roster put together by the previous coach, because they have a good management and organization around them (Tomlin).

But then there are bad coaches who dont have luck, dont fit the nfl, cant lead, dont have an organization around them and are just completely clueless. That was Hue.

 

37 Jesus wept. Presumably Cal…

Jesus wept. Presumably Cal McNair is on board with this insanity, which implies he's really committed to O'Brien. What a clusterfuck.

46 I was thinking about the…

I was thinking about the Texans a bit a few weeks ago and just how talented I thought they were. They have some really good Frontline talent and a lot of holes elsewhere. Then you remember why. They traded a 2nd rounder to get rid of Osweiler and then traded 2 first for Watson. Those moves paired with today's are indicative of a team that either doesn't value first rounders much or is always believing they are one star away from a title.

And yet the furthest they got was a drubbing by the Patriots in the divisional round after beating the Derrick Carr less Raiders.

50 Texans thoughts

It's like O'Brien looks across town and thought "Man, those Astros are always trading for players and this city loves them for it. I'll bet if I trade for players they'll love me too!!!"

51 Texans thoughts

It's like O'Brien looks across town and thought "Man, those Astros are always trading for players and this city loves them for it. I'll bet if I trade for players they'll love me too!!!"

52 Texans thoughts

It's like O'Brien looks across town and thought "Man, those Astros are always trading for players and this city loves them for it. I'll bet if I trade for players they'll love me too!!!"

53 Texans thoughts

It's like O'Brien looks across town and thought "Man, those Astros are always trading for players and this city loves them for it. I'll bet if I trade for players they'll love me too!!!"

61 A long year for Miami, but that's every season it seems so meh

The word is Miami just got an offer they couldn't refuse and took it. Fans seem pleased that they got a lot for one of the teams few assets. They have no NFL caliber LT on the roster. But they already had no NFL caliber RT on the roster so ouch to whomever QBs this team (My guess is there will be multiple starters due to QB injuries). The biggest worry if you're a Miami fan is the massive post camp cuts. It's pretty clear Miami had the wrong guys in camp to run whatever it is the new coach wants to run. Now the team has tons of new faces that didn't spend time in camp and will have to learn the schemes and calls. Look for a dreadful start. If the injury bug hits and these new guys need to see the field early, particularly on the Oline, we might see epic failure. Now I get tanking, but you have to wonder if the new coach understands 0-16 head coaches tend not to survive no matter what's in the plan. There's taking an offer you couldn't pass up, and then there's looking like you were clueless on player acquisition Feb through July and have to make up for it one week before opening day! If that's the new direction of the team, the team must really, really suck. I've never been less ready for some football than this season. That's for sure.

71 Agree that they need Ross to be patient;

The only coach to survive a 1-15 tankathon and make it out the other end was Jimmy Johnson.  Hue did survive 1-31, but the Browns did can Sashi Brown.  I'm also disappointed because I was hoping for a couple of years of Darnold and Rosen going against each other like O'Brien and Marino, and I doubt Rosen is surviving this year in Miami.