Football Outsiders
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Jadeveon Clowney Traded to Seahawks, Laremy Tunsil to Texans

The Houston Texans, who had reached so high for Laremy Tunsil, instead settled on dealing Jadeveon Clowney to the Seahawks for a third-round pick, Barkevious Mingo, and Jacob Martin. Mingo was reportedly set to be released, and the Texans were likely to get a third-round compensation pick from Clowney's free agency next season. 

EDIT: The Texans doubled-down in actually landing Tunsil -- sending away what is reportedly two first-round picks and a second-round pick for him and Kenny Stills. 

Bill O'Brien is not a good general manager! 

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71 comments, Last at 04 Sep 2019, 7:52pm

1 I only get this move in the…

I only get this move in the sense that the Texans were never going to pay clowney and so they got something for him rather than letting him walk. However, how do you let a situation devolve to a point where a valuable pass-rusher is lost for a song. I don't think jadeveon clowney is a great player but this is still a massive downgrade no matter what you think.



In a shocking bit of news, the Texans are going to pay 7 million for Clowney. This, this amounts to trading away a good player for a third round pick(would have gotten a pick in compensation anyways), some waiver wire filler, and 8 million in savings. Bill O'Brien is on drugs.

2 Move makes no sense

I get it that they wanted Tunsil, but they still could have gotten a 2nd rounder from Miami and decent running backs. Hell, a 3rd rounder and two players from Miami is a better deal than this one, simply because it will be a higher pick than the Seahawks . This is why you need a real general manager, and is the kind of thing I worried Adam Gase was going to do, but thankfully didn't get the chance in New York. Some of it was driven by Clowney wanting to go to a contender, but Philadelphia would have been a better idea than him and I have to imagine they would have beaten a third rounder and two back-up linebackers.

4 Another point to bring up:

Clowney isn't an elite pass rusher. He's never had more than 9.5 sacks in a year while playing with J.J. Watt. He's not Frank Clark. Seattle didn't give up much, and they'll recoup the third round pick if they let him go next offseason (smart move), but this isn't the Khalil Mack trade where the recipient vaults up the rungs to Super Bowl contender. Interesting thing too: Seattle gave up more for Sheldon Richardson than they did for Clowney. As bad as MacCagnan was in New York, he's still better than what the Texans have at GM right now.

5 Would it have been that hard…

Would it have been that hard for the Texans to hire an interim GM? Like elevate the head of pro scouting or something? Any warm body with half a clue would make a better GM than O’Brien.

6 I think they're still hoping Casserio comes over

when his contract with the Patriots is over.  But the absurd thing is that trading Clowney like this means Casserio won't leave for Houston, because, why the hell would you join those idiots?  Honestly, the first thing any GM will do once they are safely hired in Houston is fire O'Brien.  So root for the Texans to win 9 games if you want this foolishness to last.

38 Yeah...if I'm Caserio, I'm…

Yeah...if I'm Caserio, I'm in no hurry to take over a team missing two firsts and a second rounder, a head coach who, whatever I think of him personally, is not a very good coach and will likely be higher than me on the organizational power chart, and a roster that frankly is ordinary.  No thanks, McNairs -- I'll wait for the next call.

Now that I think of it, ownership is the problem that needs to be sorted out before management.

7 So pleased Miani didn't do…

So pleased Miani didn't do this, though I saw speculation Miami were after a #1 and Clowney for Tunsil. Still seems like a terrible idea for the Dolphins. Now they just need to make nice with Tunsil again.

Also, the Texans have made an utter dogs breakfast of this, and Seattle should be indicted for theft.

10 Clowney is a really really…

Clowney is a really really good player. And still young.
A third and change is a steal. Why did the Texans want to trade him?
I would have paid Clowney and let Watt walk.

12 Yeah, Clowney is a really good run defender

yet he's never had more than 10 sacks in a season and you would let your guy who gets ten to twenty sacks a year walk?  It's not like Watt is old, he just has had injuries- which is also true for Clowney.  I would never prioritize Clowney over Watt until near the end of Watt's career.  

34 Pure organizational…

Pure organizational dysfunction. It's not that they wanted to trade him, it's that they somehow couldn't work out terms on an extension, despite having tons of cap room. They didn't have to choose between Clowney and Watt.

16 In light of the discussions…

In light of the discussions on here surrounding Andrew Luck's career over the past few days, if O'Brien is going to stick around, its time for DeShaun Watson and his agent to begin planning their route out of Houston. 

24 You'd think a guy who…

You'd think a guy who coached Brady for Belichick would have some grasp of the importance of keeping the qb comfortable, but it wouldn't be the first tree branch to be different from the Belichikian trunk.

On the other hand, I don't think the Texans' resident billionaire will be toolin' around high, in his Bentley tonight, with a briefcase filled with cash and illegally obtained prescriptions!

(edit) Good grief, just read about the Tunsil trade......O'Brien's the one who has all the phony narc scrips in Houston; the rest of the town is as sober as a mortician in a maternity ward!

63 I don't understand how any…

I don't understand how any of these guys can work with Belichick and not seem to be even close to Belichick in terms of understanding player value.

Maybe Brian Flores does, based on the Tunsil trade? 

70 I've concluded that…

I've concluded that Belichick is effectively a football Mentat.  He's got an incredible command of detailed information that he can call up at any point in time and process it faster than anyone else in football.  But almost nobody else has the same innate ability.  Combine that with the fact that he's gifted when it comes to teaching players and it makes his process almost impossible to duplicate.  Not saying others can't have success, but they can't do it by trying to duplicate his process, which is what all his coaching tree seems to want to do, naturally I suppose, given the success he has had.


17 Wow, the 2nd part of that:

for Houston it's a boom or bust, all-in for this year. Giving up that many draft picks, wow. For the Dolphins, this only makes sense for the owner. Tanking this year for guys who may not come out (Herbert or Tua), when you may already have the QB answer on the roster as long as you protect him. Instead they're re-enacting Josh Rosen's rookie season. Apparently Flores doesn't realize that coach got fired. I'm just not sure about this. They'll need that 2nd first round pick to get a tackle. I guess the Pats are going to keep winning that division until football becomes illegal.

21 I"m a Ducks fan, I should have

In reply to by The Ancient Mariner

Known that.  Oops. That said Herbert has already gotten hurt in college, so maybe the Fins will need linemen for him anyway.  Tua's pretty good escaping the rush.

22 Also think I was overreacting at first;

This could work out great for the current Dolphins administration, as long as Ross has patience and doesn't pull the plug, a la Cleveland.  The draft picks are great potential, but I might remind everyone that the Jets had 4 first rounders in 2000 due to losing Keyshawn Johnson and Belichick, and they got solid to pro bowl starters out of all those picks: Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Anthony Becht (only solid) and Chad Pennington.  They still only won the division once since then.

20 Reports....

Reports now suggest that Houston haven’t finalized a contract extension with Tunsil as part of the trade. This is utterly negligent, Tunsil and his agent now have a dream negotiating position. 

As for Miami, I think this trade was too good to turn down, almost regardless of the current state of their roster. But, yes, this season is now a total write-off, even from the standpoint of evaluating Rosen. If I was a fan I wouldn’t bother turning up. 

30 At least Tunsil is under…

In reply to by BJR

At least Tunsil is under contract for 2019 and 2020, and can be tagged if necessary in 2021(if tags still exist in the new CBA)

32 True, but this is still…

True, but this is still quickly going to become a headache for them. Zeke Elliott is at the same stage of his rookie contract and he is currently holding out. Even if Tunsil is happy to play on his rookie contract for now, if he plays at all well this year Houston are likely to have an unhappy player, with massive leverage in contract negotiations, next spring. 

65 I think the difference…

I think the difference between Elliott and Tunsil is that Tunsil plays a position where teams are willing to give guys 2nd and 3rd contracts.  So it's not as critical for Tunsil to use all his leverage now. 

19 I... did not see that coming…

I... did not see that coming. Tunsil was one of the most valuable pieces the team had going forward, and a young LT is a premium position. Then again that's a heck of a lot of draft capital. What I dislike the worst is the implication that Rosen is not part of the future plans. Wouldn't make a ton of sense otherwise. And yet, again, it's a TON of draft capital. Maybe they just felt they couldn't pass it up.

23 Wow Houston wow. I don't…

Wow Houston wow. I don't know how good Laremy Tunsil is, but few players are worth 2 first round picks. Khalil Mack is one of the 5 best defensive players and it was still a hottly debated issue. I can't see Tunsil being worth this price.

25 On top of that, they…

On top of that, they currently have no long term deal in place with Tunsil. They are going to have to negotiate an extension at some stage in the near future, having already sunk those picks into acquiring him. It’s a train wreck. 

26 Washington wouldn't have…

Washington wouldn't have taken one of those 1sts for Trent Williams? I haven't seen Tunsil play, but there's no way he can be better than the Silverback, right? That trade would have made more sense for all three teams IMO.

28 Washington, in accordance…

Washington, in accordance with Daniel Snyder's defiance of logic, has placed a higher value on preventing Williams from forcing his way out than on salvaging the most they can from a situation that has clearly gotten away from them. I don't know if Houston actually made an offer, but from what I read all offers for Williams have fallen on deaf ears.

29 What an absurd day for the…

What an absurd day for the Texans. They got a player they're going to cut, a bottom-of-the-roster guy, and a pick slightly better than what they'd get as a compensatory a year later for Clowney. Perhaps they thought they wouldn't get the compensatory pick if they have designs of their own on big-ticket free agents. They'll certainly need to spend in free agency now that they sent three top picks to Miami for an average LT with some upside, who they don't have long-term control over, and Kenny Stills. Stills is especially confusing here, since it's not clear to me that he's that much better than Will Fuller or Keke Coutee. The sum total of all the moves is that not only are the Texans getting fleeced by teams that have general managers, the coach who seems to be acting as the GM isn't especially good at determining the value of the very players he's been coaching.

40 I just read that. Wow, so…

I just read that. Wow, so what was the point then, to save 8 million? It makes no sense on any level. It's easy and mostly correct to blame O'Brien, but a lot falls on Bob McNair for firing and then not replacing his general manager. For a successful business man, it's a shockingly poor business move.

I wonder if he at least called Morey to ask what he thought of this move. On the other hand, Morey these himself days  seems to be all for trading away picks.