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Week 2 Open Discussion Thread

Saints-Rams
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

Better late than never, it's the Week 2 Open Discussion Thread! Use this thread to discuss anything from the ugly Thursday night affair between Tampa Bay and Carolina, to all of Sunday's action (Lamar vs. Kyler! Vikings vs. Packers! Saints vs. Rams! Eagles vs. Falcons!), and the Monday night game between the Browns and Jets. 

Comments

102 comments, Last at 16 Sep 2019, 11:28pm

1 Seriously, mono? This is why…

Seriously, mono? This is why you don't draft a college quarterback who didn't graduate.

Although, maybe this Darnold's plan to get rid of Gase. Hope it's working.

2 A couple things from the…

A couple things from the Thursday game:

* Why is the league cracking down on Kyler Murray's pre-snap clapping but no one else's? I've now seen Matt Ryan and Cam Newton draw the defense offsides by clapping.

* Huge game by Shaq Barrett for Tampa. I was always a fan of his when he was in Denver. As great as Bradley Chubb is, I have to wonder whether it would have been smarter to keep Barrett and draft somebody else to help some other position.

* That playcall on 4th and 2. LOL.

4 Newton

Newton must be carrying a fairly significant injury. How many games in his career has he finished with 0 rushing yards? And removing him from the field for the critical short yardage play at the end? Wow. If the wear and tear has taken its toll on him to the point that he can’t even threaten to run the ball, then he’s done. 

 

 

5 And did you notice how slow…

In reply to by BJR

Did you notice how slow he was to get up after kneeling in the huddle? I didn't think much of it at the time--Cam does a lot of things that seem lazy or lethargic but really aren't--but people on twitter were saying that might be an effect of an injury.

9 Newton

In reply to by BJR

Newton wqs in on all Caroliba offensive snaps including that play

8 I've seen clapping flagged…

I've seen clapping flagged for a false start in a few games besides the Cards so there does appear to be a 'crackdown' beyond Kyler Murray but it hasn't been consistent. I.e. some games I'm seeing it flagged and others not at all.

7 That's not trolling, that's…

That's not trolling, that's a stupid way to start a game, especially when the Dolphins' best player will probably cover him.  The last time I saw a team do something like was Geno Smith force-feeding the ball to Percy Harvin, whom the Jets had just traded for.  Smith's statline: 2 of 8 for 5 yards and 3 interceptions.  Call a play, but telling Tom Brady to throw to a certain guy is Jets level stupid.

6 Thursday game

That game was really awful. Quality of the football was dreadful. Made the Chicago/GB look tremendous.

10 Predictions for today:…

Predictions for today:
Baltimore 24 Arizona 14
Dallas 28 Washington 24
Tennessee 23 Indianapolis 17
Pittsburgh 30 Seattle 14
Buffalo 14 New York Giants 10
Cincinnati 27 San Francisco 16
Detroit 21 Los Angeles Chargers 17
Green Bay 17 Minnesota 10
Houston 31 Jacksonville 13
New England 37 Miami 14
Kansas City 31 Oakland 28
New Orleans 34 Los Angeles Rams 30
Chicago 20 Denver 14
Atlanta 29 Philadelphia 26
Cleveland 27 New York Jets 17

11 The Panthers had about as…

The Panthers had about as depressing a start to the season as you can have. The combination of losing your first game and then again on the Thursday means your season is close to being done just four days after it started. Months and months of off-season anticipation gone in just a few days. They were even both home games. Panthers were supposed to be a decent team this year, too. But the worst part for Panthers fans is that their star player looks like he has serious injury issues and might never be right again.

20 I can only see the…

I can only see the highlights. I’m stuck in a hotel room at London Heathrow. But Cook looked like Barry Sanders on that play. Cook has always had the talent. He just hasn’t stayed healthy. 

Packers are looking good though. Wish I could watch it. 

26 You Don't Anymore

Vikings have taken over game. Packers short yardage offense horrendous-- bad snap leads to Rodgers fumble. Cousins starting to exploit Packer secondary

15 Vinatieri missed another…

Vinatieri missed another extra point. That's six missed FGs or XPs in the past three games. He may be done.

17 I see they opted to kick a…

I see they opted to kick a FG on 2nd and Goal from the 4 with with two seconds left. I think it would be reasonable to go for the TD there. On the other hand, as the favorite perhaps taking the lower risk option is wiser.

19 My complaint is not about…

My complaint is not about kicking the field goal there, which I think is at worst defensible. My complaint is not using timeouts earlier in the drive, which meant that there were 2 seconds left at that point when there could have been 30 or 40.

25 I don't know what the…

I don't know what the numbers say, but in the context of a low-scoring game with field-position a non-issue I personally would kick (and I'm generally pretty aggressive about this stuff).

23 It's incredible how many…

It's incredible how many times the Cardinals have kicked on short yardage when they should be going for it in just the first two games of the season. The latest example comes facing fourth and goal from the two, trailing by 11.

39 Theory on Coaches

I have a theory that coaches choose against 4th down go for it choices to limit the number of critical play calls in the game, and that this is self interest rational for them (but not for the team).  Basically many GMs and Owners overreact to the number of failures at critical points of a game (and do not view this in percentage of success), and make firing decisions based on this.  Therefore, as a coach who wants longevity, you should make some "avoid the critical playcall" decisions unless it is the latest possible moment in the game.

42 Well said, this explains a…

In reply to by Dan_L

Well said, this explains a lot of otherwise-inexplicable decision-making. I've also read that many offensive coordinators will prepare only 2-3 high-leverage "sure-thing" plays per game. (Obviously the better solution is to prepare more plays, but this is a tradition-repecting league.)

24 "He’s careful with the…

"He’s careful with the football—aside from fumbles" says FOA of Minshew. So far, that "aside from fumbles" is looking pretty significant.

28 I love that the announcers…

I love that the announcers think that Miami's total lack of offensive output has anything to do with the Patriots defense. Man, if there ever was a game that you can't learn *anything* about a team from, it's this one...

29 Tytus Howard is having a…

Tytus Howard is having a horror show out there. He may be a good NFL lineman one day, but he sure as Hell isn't yet.

30 AAAAAAAARGH! You don't think…

AAAAAAAARGH! You don't think you might want that timeout (and the one you blew on an obviously doomed challenge earlier) in your attempt to drive for a field goal in 30 seconds, BOB?

31 The fact that the Texans…

The fact that the Texans were still going to have 30 seconds left to drive for a winning FG is why I doubt that the decision to go for two was the right call for the Jags. Kicking the XP means you probably get OT. Going for two has less upside since a successful conversion doesn't guarantee you win.

32 Apparently Zimmer emailed…

Apparently Zimmer emailed the announcers the "Vikings are 450-1 when they run the ball 25 times" stat, and the announcers ate it up without question. Well, they're 450-2 now. A couple of ugly throws into coverage by Cousins down the stretch aren't likely to change his opinion after the loss.

It's so weird for defensive coaches to be like this. Don't they notice that their defenses have a harder time against the pass than the run? Don't they think it might be the same for the guy on the other side of the field also?

33 Miami has given up 102…

Miami has given up 102 points after two games, which is tied for worse with the 1973 New Orleans Saints. (Both teams are also tied for the second worse point differential through two games, behind the 1961 Al Davis-less Raiders.)

35 The Packers pass rush and…

The Packers pass rush and secondary were great for the second week in a row, even held in there late as they were starting to get gassed, which probably showed up more in the running game than in pass defense.

That said - Cousins was so, so, so bad today. It's tough when you're under as much pressure as he was, no doubt, but he still missed receivers when they were open, and the INT in the end zone was unconscionable. His long TD to Diggs should have been broken up if not intercepted. Should have been picked again at the end of the game. He did hang in there on the big play to Beebe, but it was really a nice play by Beebe to stop his route and a total coverage bust. Vikings could have won that game with replacement-level QB play today.

40 Looks like he jammed his…

Looks like he jammed his fingers pretty bad. I think it was more than one, since his hand went right into Aaron Donald's (considerably larger) one. I would be surprised if he missed a lot of time, but it's impossible to tell right now.

38 Issac Yiadom should not be…

Issac Yiadom should not be on an NFL team. He can't cover, he can't tackle. You can't tell me there isn't a street free agent who can't match that performance. Why did Elway think a new tight end was more important than help at CB?

80 Isaac

 

I'm only correcting because it's the second comment in a row with the misspelling; don't want it to spread! 

 

(Amazingly, Isaac Asimov had his name misspelled as "Issac" in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary [Eleventh Edition] -- the one used by most of the New York publishing industry -- in their Biographical Names section.)

41 Saints getting screwed again…

Saints getting screwed again. Even Mike Pereira referred to it as a brutal mistake by the officials, and the "rules analysts" usually love to defend them.

Jared Goff definitely looked like he threw a forward pass in real time, but it was clear from replay that the ball was out before his arm moved forward. The mistake was the officials calling the play dead, when in a fumble vs. incomplete situation, they should always let the play go unless it's strikingly obvious. It wasn't and the Saints were robbed of a Cam Jordan Big Man TD. They turned it over on downs.

71 If anything even remotely…

If anything even remotely close to that had happened to the Patriots, there would be no end to the hyper-ventilating paroxysms. But I guess when your owner is best buds with the gambling mobster head, you don't ever have to worry about that sort of thing. You can just enjoy your unending stream of 'miracles'. 

88 Damned straight.  Why, this…

Damned straight.  Why, this site would be burning down in flames if anything like that had ever happened to the Patriots, whose owner Robert Kraft is totally in cahoots with the notorious gambling mobster head Sheldon Adelson.  In fact, I bet they probably have someone in Roger Goodell's family held hostage in some undisclosed location to make sure all the calls go NE's way.

The NFL is clearly ranked too low on the rigged sports scale because the media is in bed with people like Kraft and AdelsonThe WWE is way better than this.

I am, once again, for at least the 17th time, going to stop watching NFL games because they are a rigged mockery. Until I come back next week to complain about how the officials overlooked blatant NE cheating.  Because mob bosses! 

 

43 KC lures the Raider defense…

KC lures the Raider defense into false confidence for one quarter, then drops 4 long TD passes on them in the 2nd. The Raiders DBs can't stop these guys, even with good coverage. Incredible.

44 Romo tells us that Vontaze…

Romo tells us that Vontaze Burfict is 'a great fit in this Raider defense'. That's true - he gets called for penalties a lot, just like the rest of the team. A long Raider tradition.

45 Saints-Rams is actually a…

Saints-Rams is actually a competitive game, while KC-Oakland has become a blowout. And yet, the difference between listening to Romo and Aikman/Buck is so great that I'm still sticking mostly with the Chiefs game. Plus the Chiefs offense being perpetually entertaining no matter the score.

47 In Other Awful Announcing

The color man on the Broncos-Bears game ranting about how tired the Bears defense is in the Mile High air, followed by them stuffing 1st and 2nd and goal, then intercepting on 3rd and goal was some fun entertainment.

49 Broncos score a late TD and…

Broncos score a late TD and will now face almost the exact same decision the Jags did earlier with 30 seconds left. Kick and hope for OT or go for the win.

51 Fangio Guts

Good for you-- had a play that would work and you took it.. Let's see if Trubitsky has any hope for a comeback

53 Emmanuel Sanders with one of…

Emmanuel Sanders with one of the better catches I've ever seen, getting one knee down on absolute full extension on a real pretty pass from Flacco.

Denver decides to try for 2, gets delay of game somehow??? Then biffs the extra point, except the defense was offsides!!!, so back to try for 2, and they get it on another pretty ball from Flacco.

What an odd sequence. The delay of game especially has to be on the coaching staff - how in the hell do you let that happen.

Anyway, time for some Trubisky heroics... heh heh heh

UPDATE: Good lord both of these coaching staves should be fired before the teams leave the field. How do you get a 12 men penalty in that situation

UPDATE 2: ACTUAL TRUBISKY HEROICS! Check the sky for flying pigs, look out for Hellborne snowballs...

54 OMG

well here we go nice play by trubitsky as close to over as you can be

56 Bears kicker just nailed a…

Bears kicker just nailed a clutch kick. I believe that's at least 2 signs of the Apocalypse on this last drive alone.

57 Wow, the Bears end up…

Wow, the Bears end up pulling it out. Trubisky only had 90 passing yards going into what proves to be the game winning drive.

This does show the risk of going for two late to win the game when there's still significant time left. It's not just a matter of believing the chance you convert the attempt is higher than the chance you win in OT. You also have to factor in the odds of a now desperate opponent driving for a winning FG. In this case, however, you could forgive the Broncos for discounting that risk since Trubisky had done nothing in the game before that last drive.

59 I remember during the first…

I remember during the first quarter, I felt bad for the commenter who had to watch Broncos-Bears while I got to watch the REAL exciting matchup between the Saints and Rams. So much for that!

60 I was curious why Courtland…

I was curious why Courtland Sutton was rushing to get out of bounds when the Broncos were already in Bears territory just after the 2 minute warning. Guess my concerns were valid.

61 They need to change the…

They need to change the penalty spot rules now that 2pt PATs and 1pt PATs are from different places. Here was the sequence:

  • Ball spotted on 2 for the 2pt attempt.
  • Delay of game
  • DEN given the choice of 2pt from the 2+5=7 or 1pt from the 15+5=20
  • DEN chooses 1pt
  • CHI goes offsides on missed 1pt attempt
  • DEN given choice of 1pt from the 20-5=15 or 2pt from the 2-1 (half the distance) = 1

That's right -- by switching what they want to attempt the penalty is enforced from the original original spot of the 2pt attempt.

WTF?!?

I know the refs did it correctly -- the rule is just incredibly stupid.

62 On the one hand, it makes…

On the one hand, it makes sense that after a 5 yard penalty on the offense and a 5 yard penalty on the defense, the try locations should be the same as they were before the penalties. On the other hand, I can see your point that the second 2-point attempt should have been from the 3.5 yard line, since there is no other scenario where a 5 yard penalty at the 7 wouldn't be half the distance to the goal.

63 Gutsy 4th down call by Frank Reich

I understand most folks probably had no interest in the Colts/Titans game, but Frank Reich certainly made a gutsy 4th down call near the end of the game. It was similar to the one Belichick made against the Colts several years back.

The situation was: Colts leading 19-17, 2:30 left in the fourth quarter, 4th and inches on their own 35 yard line.

They lined up, but let the play clock wind down and called time out. Everyone assumed they were going to punt, but they came back out with the offense and got the 1st with a QB sneak.

There were certainly some peculiar choices sandwiched around that play, though. If they were really going to go for it, they shouldn’t have tried the pull the defense offsides bit, because if you don’t get the first down, you’ll need that time out.

Then after the gutsy call, they just ran up the middle three times with no real effort to get the next first down which would seal the game.

82 Still Hurts

I'll go to my grave believing Troy Brown had the first by several feet. The refs flinched on that one, probably because they wanted to make it out of the stadium alive (Still not as bad as the pass that bounced off a wide-open Reche Caldwell's chest that would have sealed a later road playoff game in Indy).  Belichick definitely made the right call, as his defense was too tired to effectively challenge Peyton at that point. Glad Reich showed enough stones to gamble with the right odds.

I do wonder if coaches, when making their risk assessments, take into account how defenses tend to wear down later in games, especially pass rush and coverage. Kicking to the opponents and hoping your D can get a stop seems less likely in the 4th then it is in the 2nd.

95 I agree with the call to go…

In reply to by RobotBoy

I agree with the call to go for it for the reasons you gave.  My recollection was that Faulk bobbled the ball and if he had caught it first time it would have been a clear first.

64 One More Man Gone

Hidden cost of the Miami game as the Pats lost another o-line starter: a foot injury for a guy who missed last season with an Achilles. That makes three starters gone already (although Cannon should be back soon). Belichick has been grabbing reinforcements from across the league and couches of America but it's the one area that could really slow what is looking to be a fairly impressive team. O-line issues showed a big today as pass protection was uneven.
Still, to my reckoning, the Pats don't face a real test until, maybe, the Browns in Week 8. But after that it's Ravens, bye, Eagles, Cowboys, Texans, Chiefs. Ravens and Eagles are on the road, and the Chiefs and Cowboys game should be tough even in NE. Still, plenty of time before then to get guys healthy or for Scar to work his magic and turn journeymen frogs into starting princes.

68 I cannot believe

We shut out KC for three quarters and lost by three scores.
Also, clearly whoever has the D/ST playing Miami any given week will win fantasy.

69 Wentz 2pt conversion fails…

Wentz 2pt conversion fails because, apparently, in NFL logic, diving for a desperately-needed score is equivalent to the QB "giving himself up" thus making him down if his knee hits the ground despite no contact from the other team.

Colinsworth rightfully calling this the horsemanure that it is. Apparently this rule was implemented last year, implying conscious thought and intent behind it. I usually at least 'get' NFL logic, even when I disagree with it, but this is absolutely baffling to me.

70 Also, this game has had some…

Also, this game has had some of the most inexplicable, terrible throws I've seen in a long time, by anyone, much less 2 (rightfully) highly-regarded QBs no less. Wentz at least has always been a bit of a gunslinger, and has had some injury issues this game, but I don't remember Ryan ever making this many terrible decisions in a single game before.

72 Stop me before I blitz again…

Stop me before I blitz again just popped into my head as Jones rumbles to the end zone on 4th and 3 from midfield.

74 Hellagood blocking on that…

Hellagood blocking on that screen-ish play to Jones, and then he's off to the end zone, pulling away from the CB running full-tilt. It's really not fair that someone so tall who can jump so high is also so fast.

And then Agholor gets free with an open lane to the end-zone and alligator-arms it. The difference between a Hall-of-Famer and a... not.

76 Agholor more or less redeems…

Agholor more or less redeems himself with that catch, but both teams have someone down injured in the backfield. Which results in a sort of odd situation where both teams are assessed an injury time-out, meaning Philadelphia is actually charged with a 4th timeout since they were out. Not sure I ever heard of that happening before, but apparently it's in the rules - and getting charged with a 5th timeout is a 5-yard penalty.

77 Seahawks vs Steelers

Schottenheimer (and really, Pete) this game was surprisingly not very conservative on their offensive gameplan. Especially when up in the second half, they were not automatically so conservative that you can plan on it. =Especially= especially when 4th and 1 from (appx) Pittsburgh's 35, up by 2, less than two minutes to go, they didn't line up for a field goal, or (worse) punt: they went for it, got it, and that was the game. Astonishing! and wonderful.

81 Let's not forget throwing it…

Let's not forget throwing it twice on first and then second down on the drive where they had to kill the clock to win. As a rams fan, this intelligent ballsyness is very concerning.

89 Great catch by OBJ but, did…

Great catch by OBJ but, did he actually get both feet down in bounds after securing control of the ball?

91 Man, I liked Myles Garrett…

Man, I liked Myles Garrett coming out of the draft, and his first couple of years in the NFL, but he really seems to have morphed into an asshole lately. Call it the Mayfield Effect. The injury to Semian looked like an unfortunate fluke, but drilling the QB a good 2 steps after he let go of the ball emphatically isn't.

92 All of a sudden the Jets…

All of a sudden the Jets have a decent kicker? The plot......................................................................... Fickens.

(Sorry not sorry)

94 Oh come on, Bellamy!? The…

Oh come on, Bellamy!? The third string QB makes a good read and great throw, hitting you in the hands in stride and you make like a Dolphin receiver??? Ugly.

96 Just a friendly reminder…

Just a friendly reminder that special teams coach Mike Priefer is a disgusting human being, and fuck ESPN for praising this asshole. I don't care that he was in the military; this makes me respect the military that much less.

https://deadspin.com/vikings-run-out-of-excuses-to-keep-mike-nuke-the-gays-1831681752

97 Football Strategery With…

Football Strategery With Booger McFarland:

JETS, trailing and pinned deep in their own end, should hand off to Bell every play and not try to advance the ball down the field, or keep him healthy

BROWNS, having no timeouts, should avoid large gains and focus on check downs

100 You should add a little…

You should add a little context to both those statements (why are you making me defend Booger?!).

 

1. The Jets were a dumpster fire in the first half, backed up into the shadow of their own end zone. Just run the half out. You have no one who can pass, and no one who can catch it, anyway.

2. Take the free 25 yards into FG range instead of forcing it up into double-coverage (that goes for you, too Rivers). OBJ also got hurt on that play.

99 Heh, Suzy Kolber has to…

Heh, Suzy Kolber has to introduce a Joe Namath segment, and says he's known for "one moment." I can think of another moment!