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Week 3 Open Discussion Thread

Lamar Jackson
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

Week 3 action kicks off tonight when Gardner Minshew and the Jacksonville Jaguars host the Tennessee Titans. Big Sunday games include Saints-Seahawks, Lions-Eagles, Falcons-Colts, and the biggest game so far this year when the Ravens head to Kansas City to face the Chiefs. The Sunday nighter is Rams-Browns, then Chicago heads to Washington on Monday night. Use this thread to discuss them all.

Comments

95 comments, Last at 07 Nov 2019, 6:42am

1 Let's talk about the most interesting thing about this game

Let's talk about the most interesting thing about this game … Michael Irving's purple suit. How do I get one of these?? I know I won't be able to wear it as well as he does, but I need to try.

Second most interesting thing: the collage of old Minshew photos. I really, really hope he ends up being a good QB, because he seems bat-sh** crazy. Loved him swatting away the kid's basketball in the charity basketball game. Get that weak sh** out of here, kid!

Unfortunately, now they've kicked off and all the interesting things are coming to an end. Nice to see a holding call on the first play from scrimmage, though. Think I'll fall asleep now.

2 That fantastic start the…

That fantastic start the Titans had in their blowout road win Week 1 is fading away pretty fast. Unless they rally in this game they'll have managed to lose two straight division games to unheralded backup QBs. (I guess Brisset isn't technically a backup anymore, but you know what I mean.) I think this division still belongs to Houston.

16 Yeah, Bill O'Brien the…

Yeah, Bill O'Brien the living-embodiment-of-public-choice-economics general manager has bailed Bill O'Brien the tediously average football coach into another division title and rapid, uneventful playoff exit at the hands of some actually good team, with a little help from Andrew Luck.

6 For the life of me I never…

In reply to by Boots Day

For the life of me I never understood why the football world was so gaga over him. Yeah yeah, Speed Score; at some point "fast for his size" just means "big and slow."

10 But the thing is, he also…

But the thing is, he also doesn't break tackles like you would expect from a guy his size. Derrick Henry is also somewhat like that. I can't recall a single broken tackle by Fournette in this game. 

So if you're big but you don't break tackles, then yeah, it doesn't matter if you're fast for your size, you're still just a slow guy.

8 Is he though? I didn't watch…

Is he though? I didn't watch much of him, but I heard that Richardson was okay, except that he had absurdly bad vision. Fournette doesn't seem to have terrible vision, he just looks like he's running through molasses. I'm being quite serious when I say that I don't think I have ever seen such a slow running back in the NFL, at least in the last decade. Hell, I'm not sure I've seen such a slow running back in the college football I've watched in spurts. He looks like he has the speed and agility of a late 90's fullback.

I think he might be hiding some injury or something.

EDIT: And as soon as I say this he scampers for a 69 yard gain. He didn't look blazing fast, but he was running about as fast as the CB chasing him until he got caught. So I guess he just is one of those guys with great top end speed, and terrible agility. Makes me wonder what his 3cone time was.

Looked it up. Apparently he did not participate in that drill. That was probably smart of him.

20 He has actually one of the…

He has actually one of the fastest top end speeds in the NFL. Against the steelers in 2017 he was clocked at 22mph.

That was 2 years ago, so he might have lost some of that speed. But Fournette is fast when he gets into second gear.

7 Minshew's gotten away with…

Minshew's gotten away with some pretty, ah, daring, throws, but by and large they've been perfectly placed. I'm not sure I want to bet on him maintaining that atomic precision throughout a seasonful of hits, but if he can, they just might have their QB...

18 Apparently the Georgia…

Apparently the Georgia defensive coaches have also come up with the concept of Defeats. They call them havoc plays, and on top of the plays FO counts, UGA also includes pass hurries that result in an incompletion.

21 This morning AB has gone on…

This morning AB has gone on Twitter and said he's done with the NFL, among other things. We're now in Week 3 of the season. Arguably, a guy who caught just a few passes in one of those games has been the biggest story in the league each of those three weeks.

23 And the biggest story…

And the biggest story throughout the pre-season (doesn't that helmet kerfuffle seem quaint now...). One of the biggest stars in the League being repeatedly accused of serious unethical/illegal behavior is a big deal, of course, but now that he's out indefinitely I am looking forward to not having to hear about him again for a good long while.

22 Packers grab a quick lead at…

Packers grab a quick lead at home on a free play when Rodgers draws the Denver defense offsides, leading to a long TD pass to a somehow wide-open Valdes-Scantling.

24 As a Packers fan I'll take…

As a Packers fan I'll take it, but I thought #65 the LT also moved before the snap, because the Denver player was through the neutral zone and very close to making contact; I think that should have been encroachment or NZI (i.e., penalty and no play)?

25 After getting blasted off…

After getting blasted off the field their first couple possessions, Denver went to a series of runs and short passes (and a Joe Flacco scramble lol) and marched pretty much inexorably into the end zone. Looking forward to seeing how LaFleur's staff adjusts with some trepidation, since they were on their heels for about 15 straight plays. I'm not terribly worried about the Broncos' offense, but other, better teams will watch that series with keen interest.

UPDATE: Welp. They adjusted, as it were, by blitzing more, and got shredded by Noah Fant and Phillip Lindsay. Gave up a bad TD run to Lindsay but it got called back on a truly terrible offensive holding call, then got bailed out again by an awesome play by Jaire Alexander to tip away another TD, and finally the pass rush got home on 3rd down to force the FG. Not exactly inspiring.

But okay, after a 3 and out they strip-sacked Flacco and got the ball back at the Denver 5. Blitzing taketh away, but blitzing giveth.

43 If the Packs' D needed a…

If the Packs' D needed a steady diet of blitzes to keep the Broncos in check, it might not be as good as I thought it was after the Vikings' game. (Didn't see either game, just going from stats and comments on this site.)

I'm looking forward to seeing the DVOA numbers in a couple of weeks, once opponent adjustments start getting added in

26 Apparently the Bills went…

Apparently the Bills went for two earlier today (and converted the attempt) after a Bengals penalty gave them the ball at the 1. I think that's definitely the right decision, especially considering running is one of Josh Allen's strengths. I bet most teams wouldn't make that call, though.

44 Was about to say they gave…

Was about to say they gave up some garbage time points, then checked the game sheet and saw it was actually the punt receiving team and Stidham in at QB who gave up the garbage time points.

So I guess that was Stidham's last chance to get in game playing time at the end of blow outs.

28 Jackson looks terrible

Clearly has a cannon for an arm, but not accurate at all. And for some reason he seems to sidearm his shorter passes. Baltimore needed to run more to try and keep moving the chains, and not rely on his throwing. I do like Harbaugh going for it on fourth down.

29 Crazy how invisible Von…

Crazy how invisible Von Miller has been through 10 quarters. Bradley Chubb has been the best player on the Broncos defense so far this year.

30 The Eagles, despite missing…

The Eagles, despite missing their left tackle and top two receivers, are pretty much moving the ball at will. However, they can't stop fumbling. 3 of them so far, 2 recovered by the Lions, who only get 2 field goals out of it. Despite out-gaining Detroit by a pretty healthy margin, Philadelphia trails 20-10 at halftime.

31 And now Jaire Alexander…

And now Jaire Alexander makes a fantastic play on a (clever) 3rd down run against the blitz, not only stopping the first down but knocking the runner out of bounds to stop the clock.

Alexander, by the way, is really, REALLY good. I think he isn't terribly well-known yet, but he should be. To my eyes he looks like a legit #1 shutdown corner, which the Packers haven't had since... uh, my entire lifetime (maaayyybe Craig Newsome, briefly, pre-injury?). He's fantastic in coverage and is a decent tackler for a CB. His only real weakness is he can't catch at all, lol (dropped at least 2 Kirk Cousins picks last week).

UPDATE: And now he STONES Fant (who's like twice his size) and takes the ball right out of his hand as he's going to the ground. Ruled not down, Alexander nearly returned it for a TD; replay shows he was clearly tagged down, but also that he clearly had the ball from Fant when he was. Seriously, he's awesome.

35 Entertaining sequence for…

Entertaining sequence for Denver. Alexander stops a sure-fire TD run (he's awesome, but the Packers need to not be constantly be in a position where the CB has to make 1-on-1 open-field tackles against RBs and TEs...). Flacco then throws a rather nice comeback fade thing that's ruled out as the receiver literally had one toe out of bounds. 4th and goal from about the 3, handoff to Lindsay who's stuffed, except #66 from the Denver line essentially tackles him (Lindsay) into the endzone, ripping him out of the Packers' grasp and throwing him forward across the line for the TD. But then Denver doinks the extra point off the upright. Seems fitting somehow.

36 Philip Lindsay is really,…

Philip Lindsay is really, really good. He's basically carrying this offense.

As another commenter noted, Jaire Alexander is having a huge game. He created a turnover out of nothing on a routine tackle, ripping the ball out of Noah Fant's arms.

Broncos are keeping it close, but they're making a lot of mistakes to overcome as well as getting some bad luck. Between losing fumbles, having a great touchdown run called back on a phantom holding call, missing an extra point, etc, they need to be close to perfect from here on out, or hope for some luck or Packers mistakes.

37 Other than some timely…

Other than some timely turnovers the Packers D has been regularly giving up huge chunks of yards. And the offense has benefited from those short fields. Still really not looking formidable at all.

38 Back to back sacks seal it…

Back to back sacks seal it for the Pack. (sorry) One was a pretty nice play by Gary for his first NFL sack, knocking his guy straight back then shedding cleanly to get Flacco.

I'm not suuuuper worried about the Packers' offensive struggles so far, since I expect Chicago, Minnesota, and Denver to be 3 of the better defenses in the League this year, but I am a little concerned. In particular, Rodgers seems to give up on plays fairly quickly and just kinda chucks it at people's feet now. I guess he spent the offseason studying the ouevre of Donovan McNabb. It's especially weird from a guy whose whole Thing was extending plays well beyond what seemed possible. I'm hoping it's a conscious decision to save himself and his teammates some pointless hits, and not some kind of mental burnout...

39 Wow, after a the Eagles…

Wow, after a the Eagles block a field goal and get the ball at mid-field, I was positive this was going to be another Lions-esque meltdown, but Mack Hollins has a horrible drop on 4th and 15 that would have given Philly 1st and goal at the 5. Lions run out the clock.

I know Philadelphia had a ton of injuries, but if you're a Super Bowl contender with a deep roster, you cannot lose this game at home. Now Dallas has a 2 game division lead on them.

40 Bills go to 3-0. I suspect…

Bills go to 3-0. I suspect they'll still be in the lower half of the league in DAVE this week despite the good record. Next week they get the Patriots. I feel that game could establish some sort of record for largest point spread between undefeated teams.

42 Haven't been able to see…

Haven't been able to see much of Kyler Murray before now. He's got some real skills, but his decision-making seems questionable, although oddly for a highly-drafted rookie, he seems to be too conservative - ran out of bounds for a loss instead of throwing it away, throws little check downs when they need big yards. Of course, as I type that he lofts a beautiful bomb right into the guy's hands and he drops it, so maybe it's good decision-making in the context of an awful team...

I've actually been really impressed by Kyle Allen, in for Cam Newton on the other side. Apparently they knew each other as kids and were teammates at Texas A&M a few years ago. Anyway, he seems to have a nice arm and throws accurately on the move. Don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but at the very least games without Newton don't have to be completely hopeless.

46 Terry Bradshaw had an odd…

Terry Bradshaw had an odd and frankly worrisome halftime show, struggling to pronounce "Minkah" and leaving a long silence trying to give a shout-out to his mother. It was noticeable enough that one of the other guys had to "jokingly" acknowledge and deflect it. Given his age and public comments on having symptoms of CTE, I'm worried about his cognitive health.

94 Terry

lots of people flub a canned joke, but I have to agree that something seemed "off."

47 Just turned on Saints…

Just turned on Saints/Seahawks. Bridgewater throwing with the accuracy that resulted in the Vikings drafting him. Nice to see him get his career restarted. It reportedly killed Zimmer to move on from him, Bridgewater being such a pro to work with, especially at his age.

49 Daniel Jones actually looks…

Daniel Jones actually looks decent out there for a rookie. I suppose the problem with him is his perceived lack of upside, especially for his top-10 draft status, but Giants have to encouraged for the first time in like 7 years

EDIT: lol as soon as I posted that he fumbled. Not really his fault though, Barrett beasted Solder with a speed move. What a find he has been for the Bucs

53 The Bucs took a five-yard…

The Bucs took a five-yard delay of game penalty before that miss. While you should be able to trust you kicker to connect from that close, he'd already missed two XPs on the day. Those five yards probably swung the result.

51 As a Broncos fan who wishes…

As a Broncos fan who wishes they could have kept Barrett (though I understand why he left, and Chubb looks a pretty decent player too) I'm not too surprised he is performing well for the Bucs. Good to see someone who started as a UDFA and worked hard make it.

55 Jones and the Old Guard

I never understood the opposition to the Giants making this move. it seemed/seems a no-brainer to me-- you're not going to win with Eli-- the sooner the QB of the future gets on the field, the better. Give Eli two games for loyalty--that's plenty. They have to manage Barkley as well- for him, this season doesn't matter-- if he has sit for mulitple weeks, do it

56 Some strange stats from the…

Some strange stats from the Saints-Seahawks game. Seattle had almost twice as many yards (515-265) and a better average gain (6.8 to 5.3). Turnovers were even. These oddities are largely explained by New Orleans scoring two return TDs and Seattle failing three time on fourth down, plus having another drive expire at halftime. I'd be interested in who DVOA thinks had the better game.

59 Carroll and Seattle's…

In reply to by oaktoon

Carroll and Seattle's coaching really is a clown show. Wilson is easily a top 5 QB and they continue run 50% of the time, offensive scheme is so vanilla even Yoplait addicts turn their nose at it, the only help they bring for their QB is a WR who can only run stop/go routes, and offensive line is still a disaster. The cover-3 scheme only works with superheros on defense, as we've seen with decline of the Legion of Boom, Dan Quinn and Gus Bradley's failed defenses on other teams (really dumb decision by both those teams to make those hires) and Carroll stubbornly refuses to adjust.

Really think the FO lucked into that 2012 draft class and have only been kept afloat by Wilson's play now that the defense has inevitably splintered, as evidenced by numerous decisions like trading high picks for low return investments like Harvin, Graham, D Brown, a 1st round RB (who has had zero impact), and running Thomas and Sherman out of town when it seems evident they can still ball.

All this to say, I feel bad for WIlson, as much as someone can for someone who makes a billion dollars. He never seems to get the credit he deserves because he's stuck with doofuses in management.  

73 That final touchdown in the…

That final touchdown in the Saints game was as worthless as they ever come. Vanity project indeed. Risked hurting Wilson for absolutely nothing other than a nicer looking final score. 

With the rest I just don't know. Wilson is a fantastic QB, and it's pretty startling to just see the team around him deteriorate over time. The offensive line is junk and always has been, the receivers minus Lockett are mediocre at best. Schottenheimer is the definition of mediocrity, as he was back when he coached the rams. Penny and Carson are okay, but a clear step below Lynch.

Defensively they just hemorrhaged talent piece by piece, and it even has this weird feeling about it. Watching the modern Seattle defense it almost feels like they took the Legion of Boom defense, and just steadily replaced those exact guys with mediocrity, one at a time. There are no great young players on the Seahawks. It almost feels like you're watching your group of college friends slowly dwindle over time until it's just KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner. The only player counter to this trend I can think of is Frank Clark, and they shipped him off. I guess they got Clowney as a rental, so there's that.

That was a great piece linked on this site about the decline of that Cover 3 defense. I've been guilty of over-believing plausible articles, but it does make a lot of sense to me. A scheme that requires a superhuman at FS, plus two other superhumans playing press corner, plus a superhuman SS who's really a linebacker with the coverage ability of a safety, doesn't seem like a super replicable scheme to me. 

I do think that there's a lot more to coaching than just playcalling and scheme. Carroll probably runs good practices, and gets the guys he has playing his scheme better than most. But we're a long ways away from the almost invisible aura of those '13-14 teams.

86 He is stuck with a coaching staff that is seemingly agnostic

about his abilities to perform. From the moment the game begins it's like they're asking "Does RW have the chops?" and only when there are barely any alternatives do they go "okay, put it in his hands". It is the same ole shit nearly every week. 

That short passing stretch was electrifying and yet does anyone believe they would lead with that MO in any of their remaining games? No.

87 The drive before half time…

The drive before half time was a head scratcher (and 60+ useless yards). With about 35 seconds left Seattle gets nice 9 yard gain and then, with 2 timeouts left, dicks around and snaps the ball with about 10 seconds left and RW makes a great scramble and throw for a 54 yard completion (in easy FG range) with 0 seconds on the clock. If you are going to try to advance the ball then use your damn timeouts if not then kneel.

57 Three Weeks of Data and Hunches

The NFC North is the best division. The Bills should be able to squeak into the playoffs. KC and NE on an absolute collision course barring injury. Dallas O vs GB D in two weeks might be the best game of the early stages. Peyton will get the Saints in position for playoffs when Brees returns. Colts might just win their division without Luck. Chargers have a miserable future ahead of them, with no fan base.

80 The Bills have 2 games…

The Bills have 2 games against the Fins.  That'll help.  They also have a game each against Washington and the Broncos, who they should be favoured to beat.  Even if they only win 1 of those two games, that puts them on 6 wins.  That leaves 9 other games against good to middling opponents, of which they may only need to take 3 or 4 (possibly 2 or 3 if they win both the Washington and Broncos games).

So yeah, I'd probably give the Bills the inside track, too.  I haven't seen them play yet this year.  I highly doubt they're as good as currently hyped, but from here forward they don't have to be that good to make the playoffs.

84 This is coming from a Bills…

This is coming from a Bills fan, so take it with a grain of salt, but the Bills are decent. Probably not a top ten team, but frisky, with a really good defense, a new and improved Josh Allen, and good gameplans. Their schedule is absurd weak so they should be able to snag a wildcard over Houston at least.

Josh Allen is still prone to giving the game away with a bad interception here and there and McDermott can be obstinately conservative, which limits our ceiling this year, but honestly watch out for this team if they put it all together, they are very talented.

 

 

 

91 The Bills can definitely make the playoffs this year

The AFC is incredibly top heavy. The Pats and Chiefs might be the top 2 teams in the NFL by a pretty reasonable margin. After that there's the Ravens who seem like a quality playoff-caliber team. Outside of that, there's a bunch of crap that is fringe playoff caliber. There's whoever ends up winning the South, the Chargers are all hurt and pulling their typical Charger nonsense and playing down to competition, the Jets and Dolphins are awful, and the AFC North is pretty uninspiring besides the Ravens. Bills are positioned to make the playoffs as much or more than any other team just by the nature of their hot start. 9-7 is probably all it takes to get the last wildcard which means the Bills only need to go 6-7 the rest of the season. Someone will end up with a record that's probably 2 wins better than what they are just because someone literally has to win some games in the AFC this season.

60 KC and NE seem by far the…

KC and NE seem by far the best two teams in the league and should cruise to a head to head matchup in the title game barring injury. Even KC's defense isn't a sieve-like as expected, and what if they get Ramsey? It's a pretty boring conference after the Ravens somewhat laid an egg today in KC. I can't see anyone putting up much of a fight against either of these two teams. Houston has the QB but no depth and Bill O'Brien. Indianapolis has the depth and coaching and maybe a QB? Buffalo is likely to make the playoffs, but they're a year away with Allen's development. The Browns have the upside, so they could be dangerous, I guess. The Chargers are the Chargers and are probably screwed.

NFC seems really up in the air. Home field advantage is so important for both the Saints and the Rams with both Brees and Goff's home/road splits, but Brees is injured and the Goff has been unimpressive at best so there's reason to think last year's title game participants are vulnerable. I think Philly is the best team with the best coaching in that conference, but with a bunch of injuries and bad luck, they're stuck two wins behind Dallas, leaving them disadvantaged. GB still has question marks on offense. Dallas has been impressive but have played 3 of top 5 worst teams in the league. The uncertainty is certainly more entertaining!

61 It's hard to really get a…

It's hard to really get a feel for Dallas and NE at the moment, considering the dreck they've played to date.

KC's defense isn't historically awful, but it still seems sieve-like.

 

69 NE is always good so I feel…

NE is always good so I feel the dreck they've drecked is just them continuing to be super bowl contenders. Dallas has noticeably improved offensively with Frederick back from injury and with Moore's playcalling, but is more questionable in my opinion because we have to see what happens when legitimate teams adjust or if they fall apart after losing one of their offensive lineman to injury like they have in the past.

Just not being historically awful might be enough for the Chiefs to go the distance. Mahomes/Reid is such an unfair combo, it's hard to see how they will be stopped for the next 10 years.

81 I kind of thought when the…

I kind of thought when the Ramsey trade auction started that Belichick might try to empty the draft coffers to get Ramsey.  Not that NE's defence needs any extra help right now against normal opponents, but Mahomes and the Chiefs aren't normal.  

On the flip side, adding Ramsey to the Chiefs' D would have helped keep that group take another step away from being awful.

It's a bit boring to have him stay with the Jaguars.  At least it is until he and Marrone get into another sideline fight.

74 The AFC feels to me like New…

The AFC feels to me like New England and Kansas City are the only actual contenders. Maybe, just maybe, Baltimore, Indianapolis, or LAC are good enough to pull an upset. This is definitely one of those years where it really feels like six teams qualifying for the playoffs is just for show. Hyperbole after three weeks I know, but it just feels so dead. 

The NFC on the other hand, you have the Rams, Pack, Cowboys, Saints, Vikings, Eagles, as talented teams with a good shot at going somewhere or causing some upsets. The 49ers are undefeated, as are the Lions. It's hard to see some crystal clear playoff picture right now, and it feels like there could be seven or eight talented teams in the conference that could reasonably argue for being in the playoffs.

62 Collinsworth is conflating…

Collinsworth is conflating correlation and causation, I think. Mayfield is doing so much better when he throws in under 2 seconds because his first read is open, and throwing to open guys is effective, not because he threw it fast.

63 Rams to my eye have been the…

Rams to my eye have been the better team but they're behind in the 4th thanks to a lot of dumb mistakes. Cleveland's defense is pretty good; I'm still not sure Goff is. Mayfield's looked better than he did the first couple of weeks, at least in terms of seeing the field and not throwing dumb picks/incompletions, but he hasn't been able to move the chains consistently, albeit against a strong Rams defense. Colinsworth is annoyingly obsessed with Mayfield's stats in terms of throwing quickly vs. holding onto the ball, but seems incapable of connecting the dot to the Rams coverage that he has repeatedly praised.

Overall though, even if they lose the Browns have to be encouraged by their performance tonight. Even the o-line, probably their biggest weakness, has been... bad, but not completely overmatched. All around a solid showing against the defending NFC champions.

UPDATE: not behind any longer! Kupp got about as open as I've seen a receiver get in the red zone.

UPDATE 2: since I started typing this, several very dumb things have occurred. Browns had 4th and 9 at about the Rams' 40, lined up to go for it, gave a hard count like they were trying to draw the Rams offsides, but then at the last second actually snapped it and ran a draw (?!) that ended up losing yardage. It was exceptionally dumb. I wonder if that was a Mayfield ad-lib. If it was a coach, that coach should not have playcalling privileges next week.

Then the Rams are driving, have 3rd and 10 in Cleveland territory and Goff throws a nice strike to pick up the 1st, but it turns out the Rams called timeout prior to the play, so it's called back and wastes the timeout to boot. How dumb. Incompletion ensues, then a FG that's nearly shanked but sneaks through the right upright.

65 That 4th and 9 draw play was…

I agree with you that Browns should be encouraged, the scheming and playcalling has been excellent by Kitchens and the defensive gameplan has seemed sound to my untrained eye as well. That 4th and 9 draw play was quite the doozy, but maybe not as bad as McVay kicking a FG on 4th and a foot with a TD lead already. He might be able to scheme with the best, but his conservative decision-making has to improve if the Rams are going to be a dynasty.

Speaking of dynasty, Goff looks terrible and more and more like he's a product of scheme and talent around him. That extension seems a little premature given his struggles. As far as this year, though, the Rams defense looks way scarier than last year and should make them tough to beat, especially if they get home-field.

 

71 Yeah that FG was awful…

Yeah that FG was awful. Even ignoring the (relatively high) chance for a TD, against a 2nd year QB known to gamble, an offense you've kept pretty bottled up all game, I'd almost rather stick them at their own 1 than have the 3 points and give them better field position (almost).

Today at least, Goff reminded me a lot of Eli, right down to throwing wobbly ducks from time to time even when he's not pressured. Eli without the playoff heroics is... not the worst, but not someone I want my franchise married to.

66 I may have spoken too soon…

I may have spoken too soon about the Cleveland o-line not being overmatched, they just gave up 3 sacks in... I lost count, but not many more than 3 snaps. But they're bailed out by an iffy defensive holding call on the last one. Colinsworth is telling Mayfield he has time to stand in and throw as he desperately scrambles away from Donald and just barely gets it off before being drilled. Not sure what game he's watching, but it isn't this one...

68 If you're referring to the…

If you're referring to the play I think you are, then it looked to me like Collinsworth was right. His point was that, on that play, Mayfield created the pressure on himself by bailing out of the pocket, and if he had stayed put instead of rolling out, he would've had more time. Donald was on the outside shoulder of the tackle, and by moving out of the pocket, Mayfield took away his tackle's leverage and gave Donald a free hurry. I'd have to see it again to be sure, but I don't think there was enough pressure coming from the other side to really require Mayfield to bail.

82 Yes, that was one of…

Yes, that was one of Collingsworth's better observations on the night.  Mayfield was the scared mouse running towards the cat on that play.  In college, that probably worked given his athleticism and ability to throw on the run.  In the pros, he just needs to take one step forward into the pocket and wait.  That'll likely come in time.

70 Maybe I missed it, but I was…

Maybe I missed it, but I was astounded that I didn't hear anyone on the broadcast questioning the Browns' decision to call a timeout before the final 4th and Goal. They had all their timeouts up to that point, so if they don't call a timeout there, then they may be able to get the ball back for a desperate punt return or Hail Mary attempt. Certainly not a high-percentage chance, but if they have the chance to give themselves another possession, why not take advantage of it? I do get that you want to make sure you give yourself the best chance you can on that 4th down, but it's not like they were late in the play clock or had lined up and got a look they didn't like. They called the timeout pretty much as soon as the prior play ended, so it felt like nobody was thinking about the possibility of getting the ball back.

83 I'd have to go back and…

I'd have to go back and check.  I'm not sure there was enough time to get the ball back even with the extra time out.  If there was, your point is a good one, but I suspect the Browns wanted to take the time out, collect their breaths, and make sure they had the play they wanted called and properly communicated to everyone on the field.  Professionals should be able to do that without calling time out, but in the situation, I'm not sure the decision was the wrong one.

85 According to the play-by…

According to the play-by-play, the last snap was at 00:27. If the Browns kept their timeout, they would've had all three... so if the Rams ran three six-second plays, that would leave nine seconds on 4th down. That leaves them with very long odds, but it's still better than a 0% win probability. (And if the plays only took five seconds, then it seems reasonably likely that the Browns would've had an offensive snap.)

The other benefit is that, assuming the Rams wanted to take more than a couple seconds off on each play, it would've prevented them from kneeling, which would give the Browns a few more chances to try to force a turnover.

I suspect you're right about the motivation for the timeout, and at that point scoring on that down is far and away their highest-probability path to victory. I just think they discounted another potential path prematurely.

76 Miami Net Points

I just looked up the standings. Miami Dolphins have a net points of -117. Next worst in the league is the Jets at -37. The absolute worst for the entirety of last year was the Cardinals at -200, and the Raiders at -177. The previous year the worst was the 0-16 Browns at -176. Year before that was the 1-15 Browns at -188.

The point is, getting outscored by 117 points over the course of a season is really bad. Getting outscored by that much over three games has to be somewhere on the top 10 worst three game stretches list. I know we can't extrapolate, but if this continues we're looking at a team with a net points of... -624. That would probably be triple the existing record.

You could look at that as evidence of Miami being underrated. Not that they're good, but that they can't possibly be -624 points bad. On the other hand, they're transparently tanking, their roster absolutely sucks, and I have no faith in their coaching at all. It's scary but the Dolphins might actually be as bad as we think they are.

77 I should make it clear that…

I should make it clear that even I don't think that Miami will be getting outscored by 39 points on average for the rest of the season. However, 20 points on average seems about right, which would still put them up for an almost unbelievable -377 net points. Yikes.

Hell even if they get outscored by an average of 10 points from here on out, that still gives them -247 net points. That might still be the record, and that seems optimistic. Let me repeat that, the worst season ever, in terms of net points, seems optimistic for the 2019 Dolphins.

90 It's within reach then

It looks like the record is within reach then. The Fins only need to lose by an average of 13.1 pts per game for the rest of the season to break the record for point differential ineptitude. 

88 collin cowherd

CC was 4-1 in picks against the spread he last 2 weeks-drove to reno and put 2500 on each of his 5 picks and he hit 4/5 made 9000+ he could have a won the hilton contest a few years back