Buffalo Bills QB Josh Allen

Week 10 Open Discussion

We're already into double-digits? Yes we are. Week 10 begins tonight with one of its bigger games, as Indianapolis (5-3) travels to Tennessee (6-2) with first place in the AFC South on the line. Notable Sunday afternoon games include Buffalo (7-2) at Arizona (5-3); Seattle (6-2) traveling to L.A. to play the Rams (5-3) with first place in the NFC West at stake; and ... well, Philadelphia (3-4-1) at the Giants (2-7) in what could be New York's last chance to stay relevant this season. Look, it's not a great weekend -- there are no other games where both teams are .500 or better. That includes the Sunday night game -- Baltimore (6-2) at New England (3-5) -- and the Monday nighter, when Minnesota (3-5) visits Chicago (5-4). Use this thread to discuss them all. 


191 comments, Last at 18 Nov 2020, 9:06am

1 Congrats to Philip Rivers

Rivers is now 5th on the All-Time Passing Yards List. Only Brees, Brady, P.Manning, and Favre are ahead of him. Philip is also closing in on 5th for All-Time Passing TD's.

15 His will be an interesting…

His will be an interesting argument when the time comes for HOF nominations.  He certainly has the volume (though Marino got his numbers in a much much different NFL).

The knock, of course, is lack of success in the playoffs.  He played with some extraordinarily talented teams in San Diego over the years, but he has a losing record in the postseason.  It will be an interesting debate.

17 Dan Fouts is in without much…

Dan Fouts is in without much playoff success (3-4 record in the playoffs), but again, he played in a different era.  Also, Fouts was unquestionably the best quarterback in the league from 1979-82.  Was there ever a period where you could say that for Rivers?  2010 was the only year that he lead the league in yards, and 2008 was the only year he lead the league in touchdowns.  Although he lead the league in yards/att from 2008-2010, HOF voters seem to value trophies, volume stats, and historic milestones much more than they value efficiency.

19 Standing out from the pack…

Standing out from the pack is a tough milestone to meet when your career overlaps with Manning, Brady, Rogers, Brees, Ben, other Manning, etc.  And now the young guns.  Really is a great time for QB talent.

I tend to think that the HOF is going to get flooded with QBs over the next 10 years.

20 "Standing out from the pack…

"Standing out from the pack is a tough milestone to meet when your career overlaps with Manning, Brady, Rogers, Brees, Ben, other Manning, etc."

Exactly. I think that may be his ultimate problem as far as HOF chances.  It's kind of like being a really good receiver in the 1990s when Rice, Irvin, Carter, and later Moss were around.  People like Jimmy Smith, Andre Rison, and Herman Moore get forgotten.  Isaac Bruce luckily got a ring to help his case.

43 Shouldn't be much of an…

Shouldn't be much of an argument. I mean, they are almost certainly going to put Eli Manning in. If Eli is a HOFer then Philip Rivers should be a lock. He's probably better than Roethlisberger as well, who has benefited from much better management and coaching than Rivers had.

47 If Eli gets in

If you are correct about Eli then it will certainly be because he "Reached the Pinnacle of His Profession" and reached it more than once no less. Rivers cannot say that yet. Eli played good enough to reach the goal that all NFL QB's are trying to play good enough to reach and Rivers did not. Should that matter-we will have to wait and see.

87 Eli was great in his 2 S.B. runs

In his 2 S.B. runs ('07 and '11) Eli had 15 TD's/only 2 INT's, a Passer Rating of 99.9, and he led his offense to an avg. of 23 p.p.g. He led them to 8 total wins, and 5 were AWAY games, including 2 Road Conference Championship wins. His team statistically speaking in '07 was the WORST ever to win a S.B. and his '11 team was the 3rd WORST ever- statistically speaking. 

131 Eli Manning did not get the…

Eli Manning did not get the Giants to the Super Bowl, nor did he win the Super Bowl,  it was the defense. Just as Donovan McNabb did not get the Eagles to the Super Bowl, according to one infamous oxicodone-addicted radio personality.

158 Mission statement

A head coach and owner's  Mission Statement for their franchise QB probably starts and ends with: Play good enough to help our team win multiple championship games. If a QB was named MVP of the S.B. multiple times, then most likely he did just that. 

156 I heard an interesting quote…

I heard an interesting quote somewhere about selecting players for the HOF.  If you were to write a history of the NFL, would his name have to be in it?  Eli and Ben I would say yes, Rivers...not so sure.

Management and coaching certainly benefit Ben, but Rivers played years with possibly the best RB-TE combo of all time.  

159 That is interesting

That is interesting-the history angle. That would really benefit Eli but not Rivers. Eli's team in '07 is the WORST team ever to win a S.B. so far-STATISTICALLY SPEAKING. Flacco by the way, his S.B. winning team was the 2nd worst so far-statistically speaking.

160 NFL official rankings

The NFL puts out 4 Team Rankings-2 on Offense and 2 on Defense. Pts. Scored and Yds. Gained, also Pts. Allowed and Yds. Allowed. The average S.B. winner adds up to about 27 or 28, but Eli's team added up to 69. His '11 winner was 3rd at 54. Flacco's team added up to 55. The best ever-the '72 Dolphins added up to 4. 

167 Eli making history

One more thing to benefit Eli when it comes to the history of the NFL-Eli is 1 of only 5 QB's in history to win multiple S.B. MVP awards.The others are Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, and Starr. That list will grow at a snails pace more than likely.

168 At the risk of sounding like…

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the day Eli gets elected to the HoF is the day it becomes irrevelevant.  When the committee feels the need to enshrine a guy who, in his best years, hovered around the 12th best QB in the league because he has a famous name, what's the point?  Because he won two Super Bowls?  Great -- let's put Jim Plunkett in.  Because he won a Super Bowl as a quarterback in the League's biggest market?  Great -- let's put in Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler.  Because it's the Hall of Fame and not the Hall of Greatness?  Great -- let's put in Tim Tebow.



171 People seem to be getting…

People seem to be getting heated.  This is just an interesting discussion, none of us get votes.

Something that may help Eli is that he will be eligible before Brady, Ben, Rivers, Brees, Rogers, etc.  So he may benefit from lack of competition.

I don't consider Eli a first ballot HOF'er, I think he was the third best QB of the 2004 class.  Honestly, I think the only one of the three that belongs is Ben (likely colored by my Steelers bias) but, again, my vote doesn't count.

185 On the contrary, I've…

On the contrary, I've mellowed considerably.  Three years ago I vowed to blow up the damn building if Eli got elected.  I've become resigned the the fact that he will, and when he does, I can assure you that my only reaction will be shaking my head and muttering.

I would agree that Roethlisberger is the most deserving of the three, but I think he's a borderline case, at best.

187 Just erationalize

If you want to rationalize just think about this:Eli is 1 of only 5 QB's that won multiple S.B. MVP  awards. That is the "Top of His Profession". A QB can't do any better than that, and it's only Eli and 4 others and yet EVERY QB ever would love to be on the list.Guys like Marino couldn't play good enough to help their team even WIN 1 S.B. and yet that was his goal every year.

188 Well, since the Super Bowl…

Well, since the Super Bowl MVP almost always goes to the quarterback of the winning team, especially in the last 20 years, one can also rationalize that two-time champions Brandon Jacobs, Lawrence Tynes, Ahmad Bradshaw, DJ Ware, David Diehl, Kevin Boothe, Chris Snee, Kareem McKenzie, Usi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, Dave Tollefson, Chase Blackburn, Mathias Kiwanuka, Aaron Ross, and Corey Webster deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.  They too have the distinction of being at the 'top of their profession", as exhibited by two Super Bowl rings.

190 How about the MVP's

Are you saying that Eli winning 2 S.B. MVP's does not set him above those other 2 time winners? As soon as those others get their 2nd S.B. MVP then I will put them in the discussion. Say what you want about QB's winning that award, but many QB's have been on the winning S.B. team and not won that award.

191 "I would agree that…

"I would agree that Roethlisberger is the most deserving of the three, but I think he's a borderline case, at best."

I don't know about borderline.  Love him or hate him, he has left his mark on the game.  He's done things that we are unlikely to see again.

173 So Eli's teams shouldn't…

So Eli's teams shouldn't have even MADE the playoffs in the YEARS they won the Super BOWL. I stand corrected then, by all means he is a hall OF famer.

54 Playoff record is tricky to…

Playoff record is tricky to evaluate because it's not a zero-sum game: 11/12 teams will accrue a loss. To me, the fact that he won at least one game in 4/6 playoff trips is actually a pretty good postseason record - not great, but good. I'm not sure how persuasive that would be for voters who want to COUNT TEH RINGZ, but if I had a HoF vote his postseason record wouldn't be a strike against him (I'm really on the fence for his HoF candidacy overall).

92 Good points Spanosian

A lot for me in the playoffs depends on HOW a QB performs in both wins and losses. Do we say-his team won because of his good play, did they win in spite of his mediocre play, did they lose in spite of his good play, did they lose because of his mediocre to bad play. The answers to those questions should count for something, IMO.

2 First colts drive of the 2nd…

First colts drive of the 2nd half, they convert two 4th downs to keep the drive going, but fail on their 3rd 4th down attempt, giving up the ball at the 1.

4 You can't blame it all on…

You can't blame it all on the punter.... but....... that's basically 14 points straight off of punting failures. The block looked like a failure of the, er, blocking, but that shank was all on him.

I didn't quite follow the train of events, but apparently the starting punter is on IR so they signed another guy last week and he was fine, and is uninjured, but they decided to go with the practice squad punter for this game only for some reason? I bet Vrabel or whoever came up with that idea wants that one back (unless there's something else going on that hasn't been publicly disclosed...?).

9 Add a missed FG to the list…

Add a missed FG to the list of Titans' special teams miscues. A 44-yarder isn't quite a gimme but in the 4th quarter of a 10-pt game, that hurts. I wasn't aware until tonight how bad Gostkowski's been this year (61% on FGs coming into tonight); he was as good as ever last year and isn't particularly old as kickers go, so hopefully this is just a blip.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Titans' special teams DVOA for this game.

And Jacoby Brissett scores on a QB sneak to make it 34-17 Colts. I thought for sure that after Brady went to Tampa and Rivers to Indy the Pats would bring him back, as a reliable backup if nothing else. Maybe they should've...

10 Brissett was still under…

Brissett was still under contract (2 year deal) and the Colts weren't shopping him as far as I know. His cap hit is huge this year (#14 among QBs apparently) but the way they structured it, it was mostly dead cap so cutting or trading him wouldn't help too much.

12 passes past 15 yards



I did not se one throw in the air more than 15 yards tonight.  Even so, a couple looked like he was throwing a seven pound dart--that damn motion of his.

But what he DOES do mechanically that is great--amazing, even--is set his feet instantaneously.  There were at least 5-6 times tonight I felt the pass rush was on him and he had no chance to throw and as my synapses were firing that thought off, he set his feet  and dart-threw the ball.  Not always pretty.  Or ever pretty, I guess.  He doesn't have to wind up and I don't think he uses his legs at all.  Just a stable platform, as opposed to using his back leg to launch.

Peculiar to the point of being disturbing.  It will take all of Reich's creativity to work around that limitation in the deep passing game to push far into the playoffs.  Should be fun to watch, in an objective sense, if maddeningly frustrating for Colts fans.

23 He's getting paid top 5 qb…

He's getting paid top 5 qb money I think, so I guess it's fair to be disappointed. But he is definitely giving top-15 qb performance and that's theoretically good enough to take this team far. I'm assuming him not having a great deep ball is really limiting what they can do with TY, is it also limiting the run game? I'm so confused as to why it's so much worse than last year with the same line and same coaching.

6 Seattle has used a lot of draft capital

In their effort to improve the secondary over the last 3 years, the Seahawks have used 12 draft picks directly or through trades.

Two 1st's, one 2nd, three 3rd's, two 4th's, three 5th's and one 6th round pick on CB's or Safeties since 2017. 

Coming into this year with their starters listed as Jamal Adams, Quandre Diggs, Shaquill Griffin and Quintin Dunbar we as fans had hopes of a much improved secondary, even hoping they might be among the best in the NFL again.  Were we crazy?  Were we blind?  I can understand if they are underperforming and being below average (not happy about it, but bleep happens), but to be historically terrible?  

Keep in mind, the Seahawks weren't good last year either and spent the majority of their time in Base because they felt it was better than putting in their sorry excuse of a nickel CB.  That team wasn't this bad.

Some of this can be attributed to injuries, some can be attributed to to a lack of pass rush.  However, Pete has managed to make chicken salad out of chicken poop before.  He also has shown an ability to develop late round picks to fit his system.  Shaquill has shown improvement in his time and we were expecting him to make a probowl potentially going into his FA year.

Should I assume Pete has lost his touch?  Has Schneider not provided him with the right talent?  Is Ken Norton Jr. the worst DC in the NFL?

Seattle has only lost 2 games so it's not the end of the world (yet), but they have to get better because frankly how could they get worse?  This team has given up more passing yards in 8 games than the LoB gave up in the entire year 2013!

18 In a year when hardly any…

In a year when hardly any pass defense is actually good (offensive holding not being called is basically nullifying pass rushers), just being normal awful could easily get magnified into being historically bad.

Ken Norton, Jr. is not good at his job, either. They were hardly the only defense a healthy Allen has picked apart, but they put up no resistance, and the Bills easily figured out how to handle the halftime adjustments.

22 I sort of felt that watching…

I sort of felt that watching the game last night. The Titans didn’t play objectively bad defense; they weren’t blowing assignments, or missing tackles, stuff like that. But they weren’t able to generate any meaningful pressure, and ultimately were worn down and powerless to stop a fairly mediocre offence who made no attempt whatsoever to throw the ball down the field (albeit one led by a HOF QB, who may have lost any semblance of playmaking ability, but can can still make good, quick decisions). 

I’ve seen this play out a few times this season. It’s one thing to watch Mahomes/Reid shred a defense, but it does threaten to become boring when average, functional offences are able to generally have their way against the average defense. 

That being said, the Colts defense was disruptive enough to influence the game. Perhaps it is all relative, we just have to get used to it.

29 I agree that it seems that…

I agree that it seems that offensive holding has neutralized pass defenses league-wide, but I definitely think this is relative too, because the two teams being mentioned here (Seattle & Tennessee) were probably the two teams that most lacked pass rushers coming in to this season. Hence they were 2/3 teams (with the Saints) who were in the Clowney sweepstakes, with Tennessee eventually signing him, and Seattle made multiple trades for Adams and Dunlap to try to bolster their pass rush.

With Clowney, you have the problem that while you can see him disrupt plays, he's notably never tallied many sacks - he has 0.0 so far this year! Without any other notable pass rushing teammates to capitalize on some of the pressure he creates (or help give him more opportunities), I don't know how much he's helped.

Seattle only just added Dunlap and Adams' playing time has been limited, so I guess they could still improve. But I wonder if they might be struggling from a coaching/scheme p.o.v. with the change going from a team that rarely blitzed in the LoB era to one that is in the upper-third of the league in blitz % as they try to manufacture more pressure and feature Adams.

28 Ken Norton, Jr. is not good…

Ken Norton, Jr. is not good at his job, either. They were hardly the only defense a healthy Allen has picked apart, but they put up no resistance, and the Bills easily figured out how to handle the halftime adjustments.


Here is the thing though, by games end Seattle had blitzed about 68% of the time yet only gotten 3 of their 7 sacks.  It was in the third quarter primarily when they actually backed off and mixed coverages and got home more often and on less plays for 4 sacks.  I have to wonder why they seemingly panicked putting their bad/injured corners on an island when it clearly wasn't working the way you would expect.  

It took them to long to adjust to Buffalo's game plan, abandoning the run. Then they finally responded but poorly by not mixing coverages enough and allowing Josh Allen to pick apart their blitzes.

I really hope they went to school on themselves, before every opponent tries the same.

7 Brissett comes in and…

Brissett comes in and vultures a td from Johnathan Taylor (who my opponent started in fantasy , hehe)

13 FFL cruelty

I had Hines on my team for a few weeks early in the year, and then Indy started scoring only FGs, so I had to cut him (also McCaffrey went down and I needed more juice in the backfield).  I DO have Hot Rod Blankenship and the Indy D, so that helps.

24 To be fair, it was 4th & 1…

To be fair, it was 4th & 1 and past performance showed no guarantee of making it with a standard run. Seemed like an excellent call. I fully expected some kind of option run, not the sneak.

26 Game Picks.

40-25 Rams - Seahawks are 24th in Defensive DVOA, Rams are 9th.  Based on what I've seen out of Seattle against any team with a pulse, I have no faith in them stopping Goff enough to win a shootout.  The Seahawks' problems on defense are personnel in nature, not scheme, so unless they can trade for a new front four and secondary, they're in for a rough rest of the season.  They lose in L.A. then have a tough turnaround against the Cards at home.  All pressure on them to save their playoff hopes.  A sweep against the Cards would push them to a WC.  

38-24 Cards - Bills are 17th in Defensive DVOA, Cards are 10th.  Basically, in a nutshell we get last week's Bills/Hawks game except the Cards should be better than both on defense. The Cards could attack Buffalo in any number of ways, but look for heavy run game to take advantage of Buffalo's poor run defense. Cards will get to Josh Allen and create a few TO's.  



30 Seems very strange to say…

In reply to by DIVISION

Seems very strange to say Seattle needs a new secondary... Adams, Griffin, Dunbar, and Diggs are some solid talent. They just need to get healthy. We already did the trades to get a new secondary. The LBs are excellent overall. Everything but the defensive line, when healthy, has a lot of talent. But the line just cannot get pressure on their own (although maybe with Dunlap they can, but just one guy may not be enough). At least the rest of the schedule is pretty easy overall. I'm more worried about what happens in the playoffs than getting there.

31 Have you watched the games, baby Rhino?

Adams is good on blitzes, but as you saw, sacks in and of themselves don't translate to stops when the secondary is a dumpster fire.  

What has Griffin done so far?

Dunbar is part of the problem.

What has Diggs done so far?

They have the worst secondary in the division and the worst overall defense in the division.  When the Rams beat them later today, we can review this.

I predicted the Hawks would lose four straight.  I gave the Niners too much credit, but the Bills, Rams and Cards will take the low hanging fruit.

Vegas has more faith in the Hawks than I do.


138 Every play of every game…

Every play of every game. Any particular reason you’re being so rude? I don’t mind you disagreeing at all. I’m a complete Seahawks homer and could challenge Pete Carroll in the optimism department, so I could certainly be wrong. But it seems like in a lot of your posts you are needlessly aggressive. I know that’s the style in the comments at most sports sites, but it’s kind of out of place at Football Outsiders. 

As for the Seahawks starting defensive backs, they have all either been to the pro bowl, been all-pro, or been pro-bowl alternates (when healthy). Do you think those awards were mistakes? Do you think they are no longer as good as they used to be? I just think they’ve been injured myself.

33 Join a star-studded cast of…

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34 Alex Smith

He's not as mobile as he used to be.  He needs to pick up on that.

I'm constantly seeing him running backwards to try to avoid pressure.  So far the usual result is just to result in the loss of an extra five yards.  

Yes, the WFT pass blocking is weak.  Their blocking in general is weak.  On their first drive they had 2nd and 2 near the Detroit 10, lost 10 yards on a blown reverse and lost another 15.

On the Lions first drive, Kendall Fuller falls down and the Lions get an easy 55-yard TD pass.

This is not good football.  I wish another game were on, but CBS is showing golf. :( 

35 My condolences for being…

In reply to by RickD

My condolences for being forced to watch the Lions.  I have idiotically watched them by choice for 32 seasons.  It’s kind of a Helsinki Syndrome with me.

36 Tggoo

A. Talib nit bad st all on lkions vs Squirrels  game.  Not givin long take agyer each play like m. Millen, d. JOHnston amd some otjer ones.

37 He sounds like some dude in…

In reply to by Raiderjoe

He sounds like some dude in a bar sitting next to you, although it’s clear he knows his stuff regarding secondary play and pass coverages.

Also, he refers to the ‘Turkey Hole’ as the ‘Honey Hole’, which sounds like the stage name for an adult film actress.

39 Talib

In reply to by Raiderjoe

Talib sounds good.  Enjoying his commentary. 

38 nfl bad recipe

WFT jobbed by refs who make the default call of "fumble" on Terry McLaurin and then decide "there isn't enough evidence" to overturn.  I look at the play and see a knee down before ball is loose.  

40 makeup call

In reply to by RickD

Amendola called for "illegal forward pass" when he tries to make a handoff downfield.  Clearly trying to hand off backwards but it's bobbled and isn't controlled until second guy is downfield.

Now there's confusion about whether the bobbling changes a backwards pass to a forward pass.  "It's news to me" says Talib. 

41 Washington FC trailing 17-3…

Washington FC trailing 17-3 at halftime, but not because Alex Smith.  He’s been accurate and making good decisions (other than some issues with pocket movement).  He seems like what he usually is...a pretty good quarterback who’s not quite good enough to overcome a bad team around him.

44 The Packers are dominating…

The Packers are dominating the game statistically over the Jags, but are still locked in a tie game. They have almost twice as many yards and turnovers are equal at one. But after the Packers fail on a fourth down it's Jacksonville who has the opportunity to drive for a score that will give them a lead.

45 The Packers have their hands…

The Packers have their hands full with the Jaguars, 17-17 in the 3rd quarter. In large part, that's due to several stupendously terrible mistakes on Green Bay's part - gave up a 91 yard punt return TD, had a TD to Adams called back for a pointless holding penalty (correctly called, just unnecessary for the success of the play), and then Adams got stripped and lost the ball after a long catch-and-run in their own territory. Take those away and it's a blow-out - but they count. The Jaguars' offense hadn't done much until they got the short field after the fumble, but they may have just discovered that Green Bay can't defend the run at all, so that might start to change.

Noting the discussion of offensive holding calls (and lack thereof this year), they've called it a few times this game, although almost exclusively in plays that took TDs off the board (for both teams). They also didn't call DPI (or OPI) when Adams slowed down to draw contact on an uncatchable ball. So it's progress, I guess, in terms of making things equitable for the defense.

I'm also half-watching Panthers-Bucs. The Panthers were doing well through the first half but the wheels have come off in the third quarter: gave up a 98 yard rush right up the middle, followed that with a terrible interception, and now the Bucs are driving again, inside the 5 (looks like Carolina managed to hold them to a FG though). 29-17 Bucs now.

71 Near the end of the Panthers…

Near the end of the Panthers game, Bridgewater was sacked - hit low-ish, around the knees, but it wasn't a penalty - and limped off the field and into the locker room. PJ Walker was in at QB for their last couple of drives. Hopefully that's nothing serious...

46 The Lions are trying to horn…

The Lions are trying to horn in on the Falcons’ corner.  They were up 24-3, but two long Washington TD drives sandwiching a Lions’ 3 and out have made it a ballgame, at 24-17.

49 I don't know which crew is…

I don't know which crew is reffing Panthers/Bucs, but they seem to be pretty hands off on penalty calling, not throwing flags on what seems to be pretty obvious DPI.  In the time I've been watching (not the whole game) I've seen two Panthers drives killed by defenders grabbing and pulling forearms and waists without playing the ball.

57 Panthers.

They had a real shot to win the game in second half.

They are losing by one or two possessions because their defense can't get off the field.

They're making progress with Matt Rhule, but they need more talent on defense and some receivers.

They beat the Cards, almost beast the Chiefs.  Much better than their record indicates.

55 Watching the Eagles and Wentz...

...in 2020, I would have never believed they actually beat the Patriots in the SB a couple of years ago.

Poor coaching, poor execution and drab playcalling.  I realize they have injuries, but man, change up your scheme and get wentz out of the pocket.  He's getting killed just standing behind that line.

Wentz looks like a poor man's Wentz circa-2017.


58 Wentz

He looks much worse than he did two years ago.  Maybe it's because the O-line is much worse.  But it feels like more than that. 

This is the guy who was leading the MVP race three seasons ago until he got injured. 

56 Jaguars/Packers.

Who saw this coming?

This is why I can't bet on the NFL.


60 The Jaguars found a way to…

The Jaguars found a way to challenge a DPI non-call. Packers DB mugged the receiver, pass fell incomplete. They threw a flag but picked it up after ruling the pass was tipped. Replay shows the contact came before the tip (I didn't see a tip at all, honestly), so irate Doug Marone throws the flag. Call is reversed and the DPI is enforced.

I'm not sure I get the logic - if they picked up the flag, technically they never threw it, right? It wasn't a penalty call that was made and declined, it was never made in the first place, officially. They don't always explain the logic of the calls/non-calls and I'm not aware of any rule or policy about them doing it - I've seen them just say "There is no foul for pass interference." and nothing else - so it seems weird to incorporate that into the logic of penalty enforcement and reviews.

In effect it actually helped the Packers, as it gave the Jaguars another set of downs to waste and burn the clock, trailing in the 4th, but it was a puzzling call to me. I haven't seen that kind of call made before that I can recall.

142 It must mean when it comes…

It must mean when it comes to DPI that in addition to reviewing whether a tip occurred they can review when the tip occurred.

This would make sense because DPI can be reviewed with regards to tipped balls, and DPI is only off the table after a tip occurs.

61 chase young roughing the passer

gives the Lions 15 crucial yards with 6 secs left in the game.

kind of a ticky-tack call.  But refs had already screwed Liions on bogus PI calls.  

Not a good game for the officials.

63 Also, Lions....

They blow a 21 points lead and actually flip the script to win at the buzzer?


66 Washington got the ball back…

Washington got the ball back with 2:43 left, down by three. They still managed to run 17 plays while driving for a tying FG, which I find incredible. In fact, they left enough time for Detroit to run three plays of their own and get the winning FG.

80 He’s a Cardinals fan. They…

He’s a Cardinals fan. They have nothing legitimate to be proud of or happy about.

Keep in mind: Saint Louis lost a team and didn’t want to see the Cardinals return.

Small Man Syndrome is all they have.

72 Well I think that's…

Well I think that's interesting - the ESPN play-by-play reckons that drive was 17 plays in 2:21, which is like 8 seconds per play. That seems almost impossible. I assumed that was a bunch of 4-yard outs, but no, it's apparently a bunch of incompletes with a few defensive holding penalties interspersed - Lions being Lions, I guess. Not quite enough to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against Football Team, but it was a valiant effort deserving of recognition.

73 Lions.

I don't understand them.  Some games they blow leads.  Other games they just get blown out.  This game they won at the buzzer.  There's no consistency to them now.  Don't know what to expect.


74 That does seem like a…

That does seem like a shocking amount of plays in that amount of time.  Was there some "friendly" timer decisions taking place on the part of DET, trying to preserve some time?  Even if there was, it would seem to require a lot of penalties and dropped passes to fit that many snaps into that amount of time.

75 Most of the plays were…

Most of the plays were either incomplete passes by WAS, completed crossing patterns or outs that ended out of bounds, or defensive penalties by DET.  It was the most painful looking game-tying drive I’ve ever seen (no matter which team you were rooting for).

81 Myers

Can anyone explain why the Jets didn’t want to pay Myers, despite being so far under the cap they were able to give Bell more than anyone was offering?

84 Jets Management.

In reply to by Jetspete

Bell was considered a great get for such a bad franchise.

Unfortunately, without decent blocking, he's just an average back.

Myers was one of their best players at any position.

83 The ESPN app has the…

The ESPN app has the occasional hiccup when it loads an update, occasionally assigning the field marker to the wrong side of the field. It briefly showed Arizona with a 2nd-60, which is an impressive feat.

85 hmm.

Kyler would have to scramble backward for several minutes to get back that far.

91 Oof, Larry Fitzgerald with…

Oof, Larry Fitzgerald with the anti-Antonio Freeman: manages to miraculously keep the ball from hitting the ground on a pass that looked incomplete, but accidentally bounces it straight into the DB's arms for a fluke pick.

93 Buffalo's offense has been…

Buffalo's offense has been very scratchy in this second half but Arizona gave them too many chances to retake the lead.


... But now the Cards will win on a miraculous heave to the endzone. The highlight of the week for sure.

116 I wonder if Hopkins might…

I wonder if Hopkins might actually come away with it. Looking at the Cards' upcoming schedule, I have a hard time seeing them finish worse than 10-6; especially if they win the division, I could see voters saying, "They were 5-10-1 last year with the same coach and QB, then they added Hopkins and reversed that and made the playoffs, therefore Hopkins was Most Valuable."

143 I could see the logic, but…

I could see the logic, but the only WR to ever win MVP was Jerry Rice, almost universally regarded as the best receiver in the history of the NFL. Would be extremely unusual, to say the least.

170 This is exactly what…

This is exactly what happened in '87, and you could make a solid argument that was the year Rice should have won, because 22 TD's in 12 games is pretty insane.  He was 1st in DYAR by a mile, but shockingly, he finished 3rd in DVOA behind Eric Martin and Anthony Carter.  I suppose his higher usage hurt his efficiency somewhat (who wouldn't throw to Rice anyway even if he's covered).

Carter's great season was with some pretty mediocre quarterbacks in MIN, but I guess the Vikings' also mediocre record killed any MVP discussion for him.  He went on to singlehandedly destroy Rice's team in the divisional round, in one of the most shocking playoff upsets in history.

175 I'm still not over that 87…

I'm still not over that 87 playoff loss to MIN.  IIRC, it was that loss that broke the relationship between Debartolo and Walsh. Carter was a beast that game and the MIN defense played great.  Surprised to hear Rice was 3rd in DVOA; his totals in 87 were ridiculous.

177 Whoops. Wikipedia failed me…

Whoops. Wikipedia failed me. It has a list of the "Sporting News NFL Player of the Year award" which is not the official one...AP is. Sorry! But that means it has never gone to a receiver. It has gone to a kicker though so I guess anything is possible!

98 Pretty much.

One has to wonder how, in a season in which they never call offensive holding, Wilson takes 28 QB hits over the last two games. With Lockett and Metcalf to pass to.

100 Seahawks offense...

In reply to by Pen

Outside of what the Rams did, they look off.  Wilson never looked at DK in this game even when shadowed by Ramsey.

Not sure what the deal is, but I'm confident that my Cards will beat them in a few days.

99 Wilson...

He took on too much and the Hawks don't have a running game, plus that porous defense.

Kyler Murray may get some MVP love if the Cards win the West.

189 Fair enough to say Wilson…

In reply to by DIVISION

Fair enough to say Wilson tried to do too much, and the defense certainly is weak. But what makes you say the Seahawks have no running game? It's arguably top 10 and certainly isn't below average. The Cardinals are better and the Rams are way better at running, but the Seahawks can certainly run the ball.

95 Oh my god Hopkins hauls in…

Oh my god Hopkins hauls in the hail mary with two different defenders hitting the ball as he did.

Worth a second rounder and a washed up running back, I'd say.

104 With three defenders all…

With three defenders all right on top of him, that has to be one of the more improbable Hail Mary completions ever.

Actually extremely similar to Rodgers to Janis in almost the exact same spot five years ago, with the QB rolling left and one receiver isolated. Wild.

106 Bill O’Brien

Every week his prospects ebb as the results of his reign emerge.  That being said, I hear the Michigan job may come open...see my tongue in cheek comments on the SI Wolverine forum article re: who would replace Coach Harbaugh.

96 Talk about an ending...

My Cards came through!

Kyler to Nuk for the WIN!

Cards finally lead the NFC WEST!!!


Congrats to the Rams for shutting down the Hawks.  You guys are tough.  Great defense!

102 Packers are the Number One Seed Now

And I sure as hell don't believe in them... Anyone want to win this conference? The Bucs look like the best team overall-- but if they have to beat the Saints a third time, can they??

108 Settle down, Oakster.

After what the Packers showed against the Jags and Vikings, they are not a frontrunner for anything.

Bucs are very inconsistent as well, but they have that Top 5 defense.

Saints could be the most consistent due to continuity with Brees and the offense, but if he's out any length of time, they're done.

118 Like others have mentioned,…

Like others have mentioned, the Packers should have won going away today. They had a significant yards/play edge of 6.6 vs 4.3 (6.6 is a lot!) and averaged 9 NY/A passing. But the Jags were clearly more physical, the Packers were just horrendous on special teams, and La Fleur was poor with situational play calling and decision making. And the two best players on the team turned it over. Those need to be cleaned up substantially before taking on the Clots and Bears the next two weeks...

127 I Was Simply Pointing Out the Standings

there are two 7-2 teams in the NFC. One of them (GB) beat the other (NO) so wins the tiebreaker. In no world do i believe that the Packers are the best team in the NFC-- but if the playoffs began today, they are the Number One Seed and get the bye

107 It won't shake out…

It won't shake out statistically, but this was Ben Roethlisberger's best game of the season. He was consistently driving the ball down the field for the first time all year. Prior to this game everything was either really short or floaters down the sidelines, nothing inbetween. As a fan of the Steelers this is an encouraging development. 

110 The concern about Big Ben.

He's too inconsistent and much of that is his age and durability at this point.  If this is what he is, it's as big a Wild Card as you can get at QB.  

If their defense plays well, it may be enough.

Hard to bet against Mahomes in a big game, though.

147 I think the time may have…

I think the time may have come to give up the implication that the Steelers are winning in spite of Ben.  Has he looked off at times, sure.  So has the defense.  So has the running game.  The receivers have had drop issues.  

While his total yardage is lower than previous years, he is completing about 67% of his passes (same as Mahomes), he is top 10 in passer rating/Touchdowns/Interceptions, and his deep ball looks to be improving.  He basically had one off game against Tennessee. 

If there is an inconsistency on the Steelers, it is the running game.  I don't blame blame Connor too much for that, he is getting swarmed...seems like a scheme issue.

163 The definition of balance...

Before the Steeler's running game is condemned as inconsistent, I think we need to look to Coach Tomlin's definition of a balanced attack. He talks about being able to run or pass as needed. He doesn't look at 50/50 play calls nor 50/50 yardage as balanced. He says if they need to run to win, they need to be able to run. If they need to pass to win, they will pass. Both Tomlin and Big Ben implied in the last post game comments if the "D" stacks the box, they will pass. The philosophy seems to be "Take away anything you want. We will beat you with what's left."


So far, so good, I guess.

165 Can't argue with results,…

Can't argue with results, but as a Steelers fan...seeing what I saw in the last two weeks against bad run defenses is worrisome.  When you are 9-0 you need to find something to worry about, right?

It isn't so much yardage totals, it is the fact that Connor is either not getting or not seeing holes to run through.  Part of it is that he doesn't seem patient enough.  That was Bell's strength, waiting that half a second for the blocking to develop rather than running into a huge pile of humans.