Thanksgiving Open Discussion

Dallas Cowboys QB Dak Prescott
Dallas Cowboys QB Dak Prescott
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

NFL Week 12 - Thanksgiving football! Bears (3-7) at Lions (0-9-1)! Raiders (5-5) at Cowboys (7-3)! Bills (6-4) at Saints (5-5)!

Use this thread to discuss them all.


85 comments, Last at 27 Nov 2021, 11:39pm

1 Tampa Bay vs colts

TB will show the world that they are real. The DVOA rankings will prove to be right with the number one spot. 

47 YAY!

Great idea.  Hope you will do this when they start playing on Saturday, too.  
for Christmas, maybe you will give the ultimate, and break up 1pm/4pm.

4 New Orleans is possibly…

New Orleans is possibly going to be missing its top two QBs, top WR, top two halfbacks, both offensive tackles, and multiple defensive starters. If Buffalo can't win this game, we should be disqualified from the playoffs. 

9 I find this Lions-Bears game…

I find this Lions-Bears game a lot more compelling than it 'should' be. This, along with the Falcons game, is the only game left on the Lions schedule where they won't be badly outmatched. It might be their best chances to avoid a winless season.

37 But as always, absolutely no…

But as always, absolutely no one on the coaching staff or among the players is thinking about that. Tanking might occur from an organization wide standpoint, but (unlike in the NBA) coaches and players are never actively trying to lose.

30 It fits with the Lions'…

It fits with the Lions' final possession prior to CHI's winning drive.  Move 40+ yards to 2nd-and-5 in Bear's territory, then false start-hold-hold and it's 2nd-and-32.  Then 3rd-and-32 as Goff misses the open man 20 yards downfield.  Not sure I'd seen accepted holding penalties on consecutive snaps before, though I'm sure it's happened.

19 Idiot

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

They just wasted one and got penalty.

Worth it? No because it was a 1st anyway.

I will never understand how teams are that disorganized.

21 Coaches generally shouldn't…

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

Coaches generally shouldn't be fired for one bad sequence, but my god the Detroit defense here...

13 At this pace maybe Goff sets…

At this pace maybe Goff sets a record goes 22-22 passing and his team loses.  Only Detroit TD was after Chicago recovered a fumble out of bounds and thus Detroit maintained possession.   

Remember this Thanksgiving to think of the environment.  Throw your trash (Detroit Defense) in the garbage and throw your recyclables (Andy Dalton) in the recycle bin, someone will reuse him next year. 

EDIT:  Talk about jinx, 1st play after post Detroit D intercepts Dalton.

EDIT:  Now the incomplete pass by Goff.  Detroit has gone very backwards since being in FG range 3 drives ago.

15 I am not a Buck or Aikman…

I am not a Buck or Aikman fan, but I ll give them credit for not making this out to be anything than what it is, a close game between two bad teams.  The Buck line about this game will be remembered years from now for its holding penalties was a classic.

16 Buck has a really dry sense…

Buck has a really dry sense of humor that can be downright hilarious at times. Aikman is capable of really insightful analysis. But most of the time they're just aggressively bland, not saying anything but very intensely. I have to think that's mainly the producers' fault; showing any sort of personality might alienate a potential viewer, so that must be repressed as much as possible. But I think there's a parallel universe somewhere where they're allowed more freedom and are downright great.

28 Aikman has grown on me with…

Aikman has grown on me with the passing of the years. He is most certainly repressed, but he's found a way to express certain ideas through sarcastic snickers that I find very entertaining. I also appreciate his analysis more now that Collinsworth has completely devolved into a bland Gruden clone.

31 now that Collinsworth has…

now that Collinsworth has completely devolved into a bland Gruden clone.

Well, now that we know what Gruden actually thought that whole time, maybe Collinsworth has some real raunchy takes in his email

36 Buck's sense of humor (if…

Buck's sense of humor (if that's what it is) makes it worse for me. His incredibly boring delivery and total lack of excitement on big plays gives off the impression that he doesn't even like sports. It's painful to listen to. As bad as he is in football, he's even worse for baseball. A slow, relatively dull sport like baseball becomes unbearable when someone like Joe Buck is broadcasting. You really have to have someone who can bring a tiny amount of liveliness to the game.

75 Because it would be the only…

Because it would be the only reason I could see to discuss this game again I was picturing Aikman and Buck being locked in a featureless cell immediately after this game and trying to figure out what happened. 

26 Some guy named Patterson??

On behalf of aspiring Loser League champions, the Lions are so bad neither rotoworld nor FO can let us know they changed kickers??



27 moe seriously (oxymoron regarding Lions-Bears??)

What superb coaching at the end of game there.

The Lions are so disorganized after a timeout they illegally call a second.

The refs goof and give it to them. Then penalize them.

Then NEEDING A STOP RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW! they play loose coverage. 8 steps back on 3rd and 4.

Then are caught goofing up their substitutions (Why are you substituting there?? Why?!)

Nagy bails them out with his own timeout.

The Bears march 6 yards backward while centering the ball, rather than the normal 3. As shown by extra point %s going down quite appreciably, each yard does count. Some.

The FO writers sure seem to like Campbell. But 




29 If you're not going to…

If you're not going to challenge that, then I don't understand the point of challenges. The whole stadium knew it except McCarthy.

39 It's crazy seeing a return…

It's crazy seeing a return for a TD these days. They are so rare now it seems like a throwback to a previous era.

40 Hmm... The FG already being…

Hmm... The FG already being made adds an interesting wrinkle to that fourth down decision. I'm not sure what I would want to do there.

42 Cowards.

Wouldn't have trusted Cowboys K. Wouldve faked for the kill shot, screw OT.

Hate Raiders kneeling with 19 seconds and a timeout, with Dallas only one too.

Someone explain to me why both teams don't deserve an L if they can't win in OT.

Also that's why you go for 2. It's 50-50. You're bound to get one. 

49 Wrong

You are wrong, it is totally explicable.  If he waits, that gives the o-line multiple opportunities to hold, false start, or commit a personal foul.  You must not be familiar with the Raiders.

69 Could not agree more

In reply to by Raiderfan

He doinked because a Cowboy was two yards offside and totally threw the play off. Smart move to kick it then and there. 

50 1-1 on Thanksgiving Day picks.

I actually bet the Lions to win straight up and they almost did.  14-13 with a chance to run the clock out, a series of procedure penalties and holding calls dooms them.  I have never seen a team look like it doesn't belong in the NFL.  Even the Texans seem somewhat competent at the routine plays.  There's failure, and then there's pure incompetence.  Is Dan Campbell a good coach?  Procedure penalties are due to a lack of coaching and player reps during the week.  As for the Bears, I can't see how that team will stay within 14 points of the Cardinals in 2 weeks.  They are completely inept on offense and the QB doesn't matter.  Cardinals should wear their Chicago Cardinals throw-backs in remembrance of the first Chicago NFL franchise.

I had a rough time watching the Raiders/Cowboys game because it almost seemed like the Raiders were trying to give the game back, time after time.  Cowboys had way too many injuries and Prescott doesn't look very good right now.  For me it was a great value pick because I wagered that the Raiders were healthier and were due for a win.  Dallas doesn't look like a playoff team right now.  They will make the playoffs due to their poor division, but they have regressed from where they were a month ago.


51 I hope none of you bet the Saints to win.

Even though Josh Allen has regressed this year and the Bills offense looks horrible, the Saints don't have anything on offense.

Shapes up to be a 20-3 type of game with not much happening in the second half.


73 But the Saints are already…

But the Saints are already playing their backup! Hill is the 3rd string. 

Seriously, why wasn't Hill out there at all last night? Siemian was obviously totally overmatched against the Bills pass defense from the start. At least Hill might have provided some unique rushing threat. 

63 Cutler had a vastly better…

Cutler had a vastly better career than Kaepernick. Kaepernick had been bad for years by the time he washed out of the league. He certainly wasn't a starter, like Cutler was. To even compare them is very silly.

64 Lol

Cutler was old and retired. You misremember his later years because Kaep had the higher passer rating, y/a, any/a, etc since he entered the league in 11

84 purposely disingenuous. …

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

purposely disingenuous.  kaep had the worse win percentage, lower completion percentage, lower net yards per passing attempt, etc. i do like that you added "since he entered the league in 11.  but that is also irrelevant because they have both not thrown a pass in roughly 4 years (5 for kaep).


To give either of them a chance this year would be asinine. Kaep's whole career is propped up by the niners having 1 super bowl run 8 years ago.

85 You don't know what disingenuous means

You're using winz?  Lol. And you're wrong about it too. 28-30>34-37. 

And you're using comp%? Too bad that's counted in Y/A, AY/A and ANY/A. Too bad he was a better runner too. On and better EPA+CPOE Composite, EPA/play and unadjusted EPA/play too. 

Lol it's not irrelevant. Why would we look at years when Kaep wasn't in the league? When that isn't reflective of aging Cutler anyway. 

This whole reason bringing up Cutler was to point to Kaep being blackballed. The fact you think a 34 year old retired Cutler was better for $10m is telling on yourself. No one is saying Cutler should be called geez. Strawman galore and totally missing the point.

Cutler's whole career is propped up by the bears having 1 NFCCG run 10 years ago. Kaep had two NFCCG runs but lets bash Kaep for doing something...better?

The fact that people still think Kaep wasn't blackballed when 31 year old Matt Barkley is still in the league is astoundingly tone deaf and stubborn.

56 Taysom hurt

But active. When does the Sieman experiment end for Ian Book?

71 Comments to all on Hill

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

1.  Hurt but active.  This was Tua also, correct?  How can a guy be on a roster that can not start, but with bad luck may have to be in as a replacement?  Not really asking you, more a question for the Saints. 

2.  $10M for a backup seems crazy to me, but doubling down on crazy is giving more than a 1 year guarantee. 
Hill is 22.5M guarantee.  I know of no other comparable backup QB contract.

3.  Siemian  looks more like an Addams family train wreck than an experiment.  The Saints have shown that they can win with competent yet unexciting QB play, Bridgewater, Hill, and Winston.

4.  Nice line regarding hiring of agent!  

59 Ugh

Bills waste my time with a stupid trying to make them jump offsides timeout. 

I swear that has to have a 1% success rate the last few years.

67 The Jets fell for it last year, I think

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

My football-watching friends and I also hate that tactic, and we couldn’t believe some team actually fell for it. Might have been two years ago, but I think it was last year. 

Anyway, dumb tactic is dumb. 

70 Part of the 1%!

I don't mind trying to make them jump but please just be ready to run a play. So annoying for such a small success rate. 

There's an article for people here to give us the data on such nonsense. 

79 Buffalo successfully hard…

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

Buffalo successfully hard-counted Indianapolis in our Wild Card game last year. It turned a potential FG attempt into a touchdown drive, in a game we won by 3. With an example like that, McDermott is never going to stop.

68 Collapse of the NFC Continues

This seems unprecedented. After 8 weeks, the so-called Big Six of TB, DALL, GB, NO, ARIZ and LAR were a combined 38-8. And now they have gone 5-13 since, guaranteed to be 6-14 because GB/LA play each other Sunday  and perhaps 6-15 if the Colts beat the Bucs. I'm beginning to think the 49ers, Vikings or Eagles might surprise when it comes to the playoffs. The Saints look out of the playoffs entirely-- Dallas now has to worry about the division, as might GB if they lose to the Rams. Topsy-- meet Turvy...

80 The sky is not falling, Oakster.

Arizona has gone 2-1 with a back-up QB, missing Murray, Edmonds and D-Hop.  They are fortunate to be where they are.  

The Rams have injuries and McVay is being out-coached as well.

Dallas has injuries and Prescott does not look healthy, also their defense is as bad as I said it was at the beginning of the year.

Green Bay has injuries, including Rodgers' baby toe!  Losing an O-lineman will hurt.  We'll see how they react.

Tampa's secondary is still a sieve, not healthy and that is hurting them against quality opponents.  Brady has a been a bit inconsistent.

New Orleans is not a contender, so why did you include them?


82 "their defense is as bad as…

"their defense is as bad as I said it was at the beginning of the year"

If you don't consider that one team was allowed to hold the opposing team's best pass rusher in an arm bar or choke hold the entire game without getting called for a holding penalty, and draw a roughing the passer call on that same pass rusher after the pass rusher's knee taps the "passer" who has become a rusher and collapses to the ground, and that the pass rusher is actually a linebacker who has to play as a DE because his team is missing almost every starter on the D line, then yes, I suppose you could look to blame the defense for being as "bad" as they were in the beginning of the year when they were playing their first game in a new scheme with a new coach and allowed 31 points to the team leading the league in offensive DVOA. 



76 Buffalo Variance

Didn't watch the game, but based on the final score, I'd guess that Buffalo's #32 variance will remain unchallenged another week. What's going to happen for the rest of the season? Sweep New England and Tampa, while getting blown out by the Jets, Falcon, and Carolina?

77 You may be correct, but…

In reply to by Independent George

You may be correct, but their victory yesterday was exactly how I would have imagined it; shutting down an inept, injury ravaged offence, whilst spluttering on offence themselves, but ultimately doing enough.  I haven't changed my opinion on them after last night.


78 succesfuul Thanksgiving

All the teams you thinjk would win, won

Bears defeta Loins. Epic moron team Loins are. Lions correctly dont waste time out beforw 2:00 warming but then waste two in row after 2:00 warning and get penalty for it. Then go into zone covergae on 3rd down.

Worst thing that can heppen- Bears get first down but do not score. This will result in Bears bleeding colck and kicking field goal as tim expires. 

best thing that can hppen- Bears turn over ball to Loins

Decent thing that can haoppoen- Bears score touchdown  giving Loins chance to come back down either 14-19 or 14-21. if Loins use time outs coirrectly, then will have decent amoutnof time to run a few plays to set up Hail Marty.  

So, zone coverage as stated above. Of coruse, Loins being Loins, Bears easily complete pass and receiver hits turf a few yeard away from end zone. Couple of Howdy Doody kneel downs and Bears kick field to win game as clock hits 0:00.


Raiders beating Cowboys . No problem there.


Bills pounding Saimts no surprise either. Plenty of good Saints players out wiht injuries. T. Siemian not good NFL quaretrback. enough experience maybe to hang aorund as backup but not winning anything if this guy has to be your team's staryting quarterback . maybe should try out for starying spot in new USFL league or XFL. 




81 Not exactly, baby Joe.

While I won money with the Raiders, I lost money with the Lions.

Buffalo was a lock to beat a horrible Saints team.

Thankfully the money I won on the Raiders more than made up for the loss by those Motor City Kitties!

A competent team with a 14-13 lead runs the ball and bleeds clock to end a game.  They don't get holding penalties and procedure penalties back to back.

The Lions are officially the worst team by a mile.  Who can they beat?