Thanksgiving Open Discussion
NFL Week 12 - Thanksgiving football! Bears (3-7) at Lions (0-9-1)! Raiders (5-5) at Cowboys (7-3)! Bills (6-4) at Saints (5-5)!
Use this thread to discuss them all.
Comments
102 comments, Last at 14 Apr 2022, 1:31am
#4 by IlluminatusUIUC // Nov 24, 2021 - 8:21pm
New Orleans is possibly going to be missing its top two QBs, top WR, top two halfbacks, both offensive tackles, and multiple defensive starters. If Buffalo can't win this game, we should be disqualified from the playoffs.
#9 by Cythammer // Nov 25, 2021 - 12:33pm
I find this Lions-Bears game a lot more compelling than it 'should' be. This, along with the Falcons game, is the only game left on the Lions schedule where they won't be badly outmatched. It might be their best chances to avoid a winless season.
#37 by Cythammer // Nov 25, 2021 - 7:04pm
But as always, absolutely no one on the coaching staff or among the players is thinking about that. Tanking might occur from an organization wide standpoint, but (unlike in the NBA) coaches and players are never actively trying to lose.
#30 by SandyRiver // Nov 25, 2021 - 5:03pm
It fits with the Lions' final possession prior to CHI's winning drive. Move 40+ yards to 2nd-and-5 in Bear's territory, then false start-hold-hold and it's 2nd-and-32. Then 3rd-and-32 as Goff misses the open man 20 yards downfield. Not sure I'd seen accepted holding penalties on consecutive snaps before, though I'm sure it's happened.
#13 by jheidelberg // Nov 25, 2021 - 1:55pm
At this pace maybe Goff sets a record goes 22-22 passing and his team loses. Only Detroit TD was after Chicago recovered a fumble out of bounds and thus Detroit maintained possession.
Remember this Thanksgiving to think of the environment. Throw your trash (Detroit Defense) in the garbage and throw your recyclables (Andy Dalton) in the recycle bin, someone will reuse him next year.
EDIT: Talk about jinx, 1st play after post Detroit D intercepts Dalton.
EDIT: Now the incomplete pass by Goff. Detroit has gone very backwards since being in FG range 3 drives ago.
#15 by jheidelberg // Nov 25, 2021 - 3:04pm
I am not a Buck or Aikman fan, but I ll give them credit for not making this out to be anything than what it is, a close game between two bad teams. The Buck line about this game will be remembered years from now for its holding penalties was a classic.
#16 by Spanosian Magn… // Nov 25, 2021 - 3:26pm
Buck has a really dry sense of humor that can be downright hilarious at times. Aikman is capable of really insightful analysis. But most of the time they're just aggressively bland, not saying anything but very intensely. I have to think that's mainly the producers' fault; showing any sort of personality might alienate a potential viewer, so that must be repressed as much as possible. But I think there's a parallel universe somewhere where they're allowed more freedom and are downright great.
#28 by Noahrk // Nov 25, 2021 - 4:49pm
Aikman has grown on me with the passing of the years. He is most certainly repressed, but he's found a way to express certain ideas through sarcastic snickers that I find very entertaining. I also appreciate his analysis more now that Collinsworth has completely devolved into a bland Gruden clone.
#36 by Cythammer // Nov 25, 2021 - 7:02pm
Buck's sense of humor (if that's what it is) makes it worse for me. His incredibly boring delivery and total lack of excitement on big plays gives off the impression that he doesn't even like sports. It's painful to listen to. As bad as he is in football, he's even worse for baseball. A slow, relatively dull sport like baseball becomes unbearable when someone like Joe Buck is broadcasting. You really have to have someone who can bring a tiny amount of liveliness to the game.
#75 by PirateFreedom // Nov 26, 2021 - 8:43am
Because it would be the only reason I could see to discuss this game again I was picturing Aikman and Buck being locked in a featureless cell immediately after this game and trying to figure out what happened.
#27 by BigRichie // Nov 25, 2021 - 4:44pm
What superb coaching at the end of game there.
The Lions are so disorganized after a timeout they illegally call a second.
The refs goof and give it to them. Then penalize them.
Then NEEDING A STOP RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW! they play loose coverage. 8 steps back on 3rd and 4.
Then are caught goofing up their substitutions (Why are you substituting there?? Why?!)
Nagy bails them out with his own timeout.
The Bears march 6 yards backward while centering the ball, rather than the normal 3. As shown by extra point %s going down quite appreciably, each yard does count. Some.
The FO writers sure seem to like Campbell. But
THAT
WAS
TERRIBLE!
#42 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 25, 2021 - 8:18pm
Wouldn't have trusted Cowboys K. Wouldve faked for the kill shot, screw OT.
Hate Raiders kneeling with 19 seconds and a timeout, with Dallas only one too.
Someone explain to me why both teams don't deserve an L if they can't win in OT.
Also that's why you go for 2. It's 50-50. You're bound to get one.
#50 by DIVISION // Nov 25, 2021 - 9:34pm
I actually bet the Lions to win straight up and they almost did. 14-13 with a chance to run the clock out, a series of procedure penalties and holding calls dooms them. I have never seen a team look like it doesn't belong in the NFL. Even the Texans seem somewhat competent at the routine plays. There's failure, and then there's pure incompetence. Is Dan Campbell a good coach? Procedure penalties are due to a lack of coaching and player reps during the week. As for the Bears, I can't see how that team will stay within 14 points of the Cardinals in 2 weeks. They are completely inept on offense and the QB doesn't matter. Cardinals should wear their Chicago Cardinals throw-backs in remembrance of the first Chicago NFL franchise.
I had a rough time watching the Raiders/Cowboys game because it almost seemed like the Raiders were trying to give the game back, time after time. Cowboys had way too many injuries and Prescott doesn't look very good right now. For me it was a great value pick because I wagered that the Raiders were healthier and were due for a win. Dallas doesn't look like a playoff team right now. They will make the playoffs due to their poor division, but they have regressed from where they were a month ago.
#73 by BJR // Nov 26, 2021 - 7:25am
But the Saints are already playing their backup! Hill is the 3rd string.
Seriously, why wasn't Hill out there at all last night? Siemian was obviously totally overmatched against the Bills pass defense from the start. At least Hill might have provided some unique rushing threat.
#84 by bigfrogs // Nov 27, 2021 - 8:00pm
purposely disingenuous. kaep had the worse win percentage, lower completion percentage, lower net yards per passing attempt, etc. i do like that you added "since he entered the league in 11. but that is also irrelevant because they have both not thrown a pass in roughly 4 years (5 for kaep).
To give either of them a chance this year would be asinine. Kaep's whole career is propped up by the niners having 1 super bowl run 8 years ago.
#85 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 27, 2021 - 11:39pm
You're using winz? Lol. And you're wrong about it too. 28-30>34-37.
And you're using comp%? Too bad that's counted in Y/A, AY/A and ANY/A. Too bad he was a better runner too. On and better EPA+CPOE Composite, EPA/play and unadjusted EPA/play too.
Lol it's not irrelevant. Why would we look at years when Kaep wasn't in the league? When that isn't reflective of aging Cutler anyway.
This whole reason bringing up Cutler was to point to Kaep being blackballed. The fact you think a 34 year old retired Cutler was better for $10m is telling on yourself. No one is saying Cutler should be called geez. Strawman galore and totally missing the point.
Cutler's whole career is propped up by the bears having 1 NFCCG run 10 years ago. Kaep had two NFCCG runs but lets bash Kaep for doing something...better?
The fact that people still think Kaep wasn't blackballed when 31 year old Matt Barkley is still in the league is astoundingly tone deaf and stubborn.
#86 by bigfrogs // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:25am
74-79 is .483 (Cutler)
28-30 is .482 (Kaepernick)
Stating stats confidently doesn't magically make them true.
Also, if we want to talk about players ageing, what if we cherry picked their seasons to be from 2014-2016. Football shelf life of players is very short, and its not like their most recent 3 year run isnt a strong indicator of their playing ability in 2017 and onward. Using this criteria, it makes it so cutler has a higher qb rating, Y/A, NY/A, ANY/A, win percentage, etc. The argument that signing cutler over kaepernick is so foolish that it must be racism is intellectually lazy and disingenuous.
I am not defending Cutler as much as i am tearing down kaepernick. It seemed obvious that cutler wasn't going to work out for the dolphins, just like it seems obvious that kaepernick wouldn't have worked out for the dolphins. Kaepernick had one season (!) where his team finished above .500 and its not like his stats dictate that he was some sort of juggernaut. People are really propping up his career for 1 superbowl run and putting on those rose colored glasses about how good (and for how long) his career really was.
#87 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 9:44am
When I explicitly said when and why. For a measly .001. You're really just telling on yourself.
Moving the goalposts to tear "down kaepernick" is an awful statement to make. Like seriously, you're goal is to bash a guy that stood up to police brutality. But then again, you're also changing the verbiage of being blacklisted.
Kaepernick had one season (!) where his team finished above .500 and its not like his stats dictate that he was some sort of juggernaut.
Also just not true. Probably because you deny Kaeps other NFCCG run. Whether the 2012 run or 2013 run when he was multiple games above .500 as a starter too, IDK.
Thankfully you dropped the "only 1 SB run" nonsense, as if Cutler was ever part of one. Oh wait, you're not, and keep trying to move the goalposts as if that run doesn't count for as much as Cutlers days pre Kaep.
They Dolphins wanted to spend $10m on a QB to try and win (like many teams do) and they chose a washed Cutler over Kaep with more total and recent playoff success and didn't turn 30 until November. Awful thing to defend a team/the league on. And that's not even mentioning other signings like the foosball team calling Mark Sanchez out of retirement. Are you seeing a pattern? Or did Sanchez had an arbitrary span of better play than Kaep too despite being older? Oh wait you're gonna use winz. Why even discuss someone using such a reason on an analytics site.
#88 by bigfrogs // Nov 28, 2021 - 12:05pm
I said that cutler had a better win percentage and I didn't state "when and why." You are trying to say that i am bound to your restrictions of dialogue, but I'd rather just say that cutler simply put has a better win percentage. Yes its by .001, but you are also trying to imply that that is statistically not true, which is way more telling than simply stating a fact.
People are allowed to criticize people in their respective fields and separate their cause from their playing ability. He doesn't gain immunity from criticism simply because of kneeling. That is why a lot of people find the kaepernick arguments exhausting.
I misspoke on the .500 thing. I meant to put have a season better than 8-8. It speaks to his lack of longevity in the league. I also set the parameters that jay cutler was simply a better qb for the 3 years leading up to the 2017 season. Do you have any statistical backing to claim the opposite?
I am guessing you will just type "winz" again or go home and cry to mama.
#89 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:03pm
They're only here to bash Kaep. That's sad and very clear your intentions aren't to accept the truth.
No one said he was the best, but it's clear the league blackballed him. But go ahead and make more arbitrary excuses for the league calling people like Cutler and Sanchez out of retirement but not giving the guy that has made it CLEAR he wants to play.
You've misspoken a lot. Weird how I don't see you post anywhere else. And yeah using winz on a site like this is pathetic.
#90 by bigfrogs // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:54pm
They felt cutler gave them a better chance at winning. I’ve made my point as to why it is reasonable for them to think that, his 3 years prior were superior to kaepernick. And just because someone WANTS to play doesn’t mean they are entitled to play. I would love to play in the nfl but no one gave me a shot (for good reason, I suck). The players intentions don’t matter in this discussion.
I misspoke once, which I’m guessing is a lot for anyone with a differing opinion to yours. You would probably be more forgiving if I was to agree with your assessment.
I somewhat agree with the winz dialogue but the only thing kaepernick has going for him is the 4-2 two year playoff run. That is “winz” in an even smaller sample size.
Your politics leave you unable to engage in reasonable dialogue.
#91 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:18pm
Still keeping this up as your only reason for making that account.
They "felt" that a 34 yo that hadn't even been .500 since 2012 was the answer just proves the point lol
Keep thinking it's just 4-2 while propping up JAY CUTLERS 1-1. LOL before Kaep at that!
"Politics" LOLOLOL youre SOOOOO transparent. What a pathetic reason to create an account here and blather on about winz LOL. But yeah your bad faith argument for the league calling out MULTIPLE OLDER players from retirement sure isn't reasonable. You live in a make believe world thinking the league is perfectly fine and would never do such a thing is laughable.
#92 by bigfrogs // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:24pm
I have literally not once brought up cutlers playoff record, i don't understand why you bring up his 1-1 as if im propping it up. You are pulling things out of thin air. I have stated that kaepernicks 4-2 record from 2012/2013 is small sample size and probably not the most important stat when dictating whether or not he could be a starting qb in 2017 and forward.
Both had been declining, but cutler had been better more recently and for a longer period of time. It is not unreasonable to think that an organization would think he was a better player going into 2017 than kaep. Cutler had better conventional stats and advanced stats than kaep for the 3 years prior.
Many older players have put together great seasons before, so i dont understand why you think 34 years old means that a player is 100% done.
I will keep bringing up stats, you can keep talking with your heart.
#93 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 8:14pm
But for some reason only like looking at an arbitrary slice to fit your narrative. But yeah Kaep was done at 29 while Colt Mccoy keeps getting chances at 35, oh wow another example.
What a sad account you are, logging on to tear down Kaep because... you're an owner worshipper that thinks the NFL is a bastion of greatness...or worse.
#94 by bigfrogs // Nov 28, 2021 - 10:53pm
Besides colt mccoy being... wait for it.... better at 35 than kaepernick was at 28. Better rating, comp %, win %, y/a, ay/a, ny/a, any/a, etc. Why do you go on an analytics and stats website if you refuse to argue using them? Put the tin foil hat away and take out the supporting evidence.
"you're an owner worshipper that thinks the NFL is a bastion of greatness...or worse. "
What does that even mean lol. That is one of the saddest sentences I have ever read.
#95 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 11:32pm
Surprise! Using 2021 stats (when he shouldn't have even made it this far) vs 2015. Literally can't get any dumber propping up a guy that started 25 games in his first 6 years. But ignore Kaep had more winz than Mccoy had starts to fit your narrative.
The fact that you don't know what that means proves your in the owners pockets. There's no need to defend them troll. Your only posts here are to tear down Kaep! That's PATHETIC.
“No, didn’t like him,” Champ Bailey once said in a television interview
You're a clown for coming on here only to lick the NFLs boots.
#96 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 11:32pm
#97 by bigfrogs // Nov 29, 2021 - 12:10am
Kaep is allowed to be torn down using statistics, it just boggles my mind why you are so invested in him.
"...had a better passer rating than roughly half the starting QBs in the league in 2016..."
Thats a weird way to write 17th in passer rating. Lets get to the stats shall we?
2016 kaep stats
29th in dyar 30th dvoa 24th qbr
2015 kaep stats
35th in dyar 34th dvoa 32nd qbr
2014 kaep stats
27th in dyar 28th in dvoa 16th in qbr
Stats suggest that he is not a good qb. So what is another factor for why he wasnt signed? The broncos offered him 7 million a year which would put him at 23rd highest paid qb that year. He declined the generous offer despite his stats dictating that he wasn't as valuable as that offer.
#99 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 29, 2021 - 12:42am
Kaep is allowed to be torn down using statistics, it just boggles my mind why you are so invested in him.
YOU MADE AN ENTIRE ACCOUNT TO TEAR DOWN SOMEONE THAT DISAPPREARED FROM THE LEAGUE AT 29.
But thanks for continuing to prove how sad (and incorrect) you are. Still cherry picking and looking only at what you want as if the 49ers had any talent at those times.
But more myths about the Broncos offering $7m (ignore the Dolphins paid more for Cutler, who nobody liked).
The hoops you're jumping through to justify the league giving up on a sub 30 year old is asinine. Be less transparent bootlicker
#100 by bigfrogs // Nov 29, 2021 - 4:16am
Stick to the content not insults.
The data is only cherry picked in length but you won’t engage in what you think is incorrect about it. Do you not think 3 years is significant enough?
Kaep opted out of 14.9 million, which is an absurd overpay for a quarterback of his caliber, wouldn’t you agree? You seem to think cutler for 1 year 10 million isn’t justified but remember, I’ve built a case that he put up comfortably better stats in the 3 years prior. Kaep had an inflated value of himself that made it unable for teams to match.
What is with your obsession with boots? If it’s a fetish try Zappos.com
#101 by ImNewAroundThe… // Dec 01, 2021 - 3:37pm
Have still yet to see you post anywhere else accept to be a bootlicker here. Not an insult just truth.
Your content is wrong! You wouldnt take millions in a paycut, and that means the Broncos didn't offer it like you remember. Nothing else to discuss. You're a raging biased white guy that made an account to defend the majority white front offices giving a guy no liked and hadn't been good in a decade, 10m over a guy that hadn't even turned 30 despite having 4x the playoff winz! You'll just say he was carried but ignore the team he had the previous years which was trash.
White guy not knowing what a bootlicker is! Surprise! A Kaep black ball denier not knowing what obvious phrases are because he's too busy defending the league giving up on a TWENTY NINE year old but justifying OLDER and WORSE QBs! Wow!
Go back to your hole, systemic racism denier. Enough of your clown posting.
#71 by jheidelberg // Nov 26, 2021 - 12:37am
1. Hurt but active. This was Tua also, correct? How can a guy be on a roster that can not start, but with bad luck may have to be in as a replacement? Not really asking you, more a question for the Saints.
2. $10M for a backup seems crazy to me, but doubling down on crazy is giving more than a 1 year guarantee.
Hill is 22.5M guarantee. I know of no other comparable backup QB contract.
3. Siemian looks more like an Addams family train wreck than an experiment. The Saints have shown that they can win with competent yet unexciting QB play, Bridgewater, Hill, and Winston.
4. Nice line regarding hiring of agent!
#79 by IlluminatusUIUC // Nov 26, 2021 - 2:51pm
Buffalo successfully hard-counted Indianapolis in our Wild Card game last year. It turned a potential FG attempt into a touchdown drive, in a game we won by 3. With an example like that, McDermott is never going to stop.
#68 by oaktoon // Nov 25, 2021 - 11:26pm
This seems unprecedented. After 8 weeks, the so-called Big Six of TB, DALL, GB, NO, ARIZ and LAR were a combined 38-8. And now they have gone 5-13 since, guaranteed to be 6-14 because GB/LA play each other Sunday and perhaps 6-15 if the Colts beat the Bucs. I'm beginning to think the 49ers, Vikings or Eagles might surprise when it comes to the playoffs. The Saints look out of the playoffs entirely-- Dallas now has to worry about the division, as might GB if they lose to the Rams. Topsy-- meet Turvy...
#80 by DIVISION // Nov 26, 2021 - 4:23pm
Arizona has gone 2-1 with a back-up QB, missing Murray, Edmonds and D-Hop. They are fortunate to be where they are.
The Rams have injuries and McVay is being out-coached as well.
Dallas has injuries and Prescott does not look healthy, also their defense is as bad as I said it was at the beginning of the year.
Green Bay has injuries, including Rodgers' baby toe! Losing an O-lineman will hurt. We'll see how they react.
Tampa's secondary is still a sieve, not healthy and that is hurting them against quality opponents. Brady has a been a bit inconsistent.
New Orleans is not a contender, so why did you include them?
#82 by Romodini // Nov 26, 2021 - 5:17pm
"their defense is as bad as I said it was at the beginning of the year"
If you don't consider that one team was allowed to hold the opposing team's best pass rusher in an arm bar or choke hold the entire game without getting called for a holding penalty, and draw a roughing the passer call on that same pass rusher after the pass rusher's knee taps the "passer" who has become a rusher and collapses to the ground, and that the pass rusher is actually a linebacker who has to play as a DE because his team is missing almost every starter on the D line, then yes, I suppose you could look to blame the defense for being as "bad" as they were in the beginning of the year when they were playing their first game in a new scheme with a new coach and allowed 31 points to the team leading the league in offensive DVOA.
#76 by Independent George // Nov 26, 2021 - 10:03am
Didn't watch the game, but based on the final score, I'd guess that Buffalo's #32 variance will remain unchallenged another week. What's going to happen for the rest of the season? Sweep New England and Tampa, while getting blown out by the Jets, Falcon, and Carolina?
#77 by BJR // Nov 26, 2021 - 10:39am
You may be correct, but their victory yesterday was exactly how I would have imagined it; shutting down an inept, injury ravaged offence, whilst spluttering on offence themselves, but ultimately doing enough. I haven't changed my opinion on them after last night.
#78 by Raiderjoe // Nov 26, 2021 - 11:18am
All the teams you thinjk would win, won
Bears defeta Loins. Epic moron team Loins are. Lions correctly dont waste time out beforw 2:00 warming but then waste two in row after 2:00 warning and get penalty for it. Then go into zone covergae on 3rd down.
Worst thing that can heppen- Bears get first down but do not score. This will result in Bears bleeding colck and kicking field goal as tim expires.
best thing that can hppen- Bears turn over ball to Loins
Decent thing that can haoppoen- Bears score touchdown giving Loins chance to come back down either 14-19 or 14-21. if Loins use time outs coirrectly, then will have decent amoutnof time to run a few plays to set up Hail Marty.
So, zone coverage as stated above. Of coruse, Loins being Loins, Bears easily complete pass and receiver hits turf a few yeard away from end zone. Couple of Howdy Doody kneel downs and Bears kick field to win game as clock hits 0:00.
Raiders beating Cowboys . No problem there.
Bills pounding Saimts no surprise either. Plenty of good Saints players out wiht injuries. T. Siemian not good NFL quaretrback. enough experience maybe to hang aorund as backup but not winning anything if this guy has to be your team's staryting quarterback . maybe should try out for starying spot in new USFL league or XFL.
#81 by DIVISION // Nov 26, 2021 - 4:25pm
While I won money with the Raiders, I lost money with the Lions.
Buffalo was a lock to beat a horrible Saints team.
Thankfully the money I won on the Raiders more than made up for the loss by those Motor City Kitties!
A competent team with a 14-13 lead runs the ball and bleeds clock to end a game. They don't get holding penalties and procedure penalties back to back.
The Lions are officially the worst team by a mile. Who can they beat?
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