Week 12 Open Discussion

Minnesota Vikings RB Alexander Mattison and QB Kirk Cousins
Minnesota Vikings RB Alexander Mattison and QB Kirk Cousins
Photo: USA Today Sports Images

NFL Week 12 - Sunday is full of big games, including Tampa Bay (7-3) at Indianapolis (6-5), Tennessee (8-3) at New England (7-4), Pittsburgh (5-4-1) at Cincinnati (6-4), L.A. Chargers (6-4) at Denver (5-5), L.A. Rams (7-3) at Green Bay (8-3), and Minnesota (5-5) at San Francisco (5-5). The Sunday night game sees Cleveland (6-5) at Baltimore (7-3), while Seattle (3-7) visits Washington (4-6) on Monday night.

Use this thread to discuss them all.


117 comments, Last at 30 Nov 2021, 12:41pm

#1 by Tutenkharnage // Nov 27, 2021 - 5:59pm

A lot of us really appreciate it. 

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#2 by jheidelberg // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:46am

Vince just could not go to 9 and mention the 4-6 bring up the rear in DVOA Falcons vs Jaguars nor the battle of the I want you back QB’s Newton and Tua, in Panthers vs Dolphins

Meanwhile the Jets take on the Texans, in the battle of the few, the not proud, the nearly eliminated Bowl.

Lets not forget the Eagles playoff run as they take on the Giants who attempt to firmly establish themselves as Met Life Stadium’s superior residents.

The NFL knows what it is doing.  I do not like watering down the playoffs with a 7th team.   However, after watching Joe Flacco and Nick Foles lead a magical run to a championship this decade, I am not going to tell a Seattle fan that Russell Wilson, with a 3-7 team, can not go on a run, make the playoffs, and then take it from there led by the Aerosmith battle song, Dream On, Dream On, Dream until Your Dreams Come True.

On the other hand, a number of FO writers went chalk, and had a repeat of TB vs KC.  That sure appears to be a reasonable scenario.  

Meanwhile TEN with -4.4 DVOA leads the way in the AFC, threatened to be overtaken today by losing to a rookie QB on a NE team that leads the AFC in DVOA, who can become number 1, or have BAL become #1 as Lamar Jackson runs for his life, leads a comeback victory, with two tackles who on occasion actually block a pass rusher, while trailing in the second half by as many as 19 points or to the likes of the winless Lions.

Maybe instead Mayfield takes the podium postgame thanking the 2000 or so Cleveland fans who drove 6 hours to watch this game in person and explaining that the keys to victory were limiting the interceptions to one and handing off 40 times.

The big 5 in the NFC are not as big as they were a few weeks ago led by Dallas who’s rallying cry is, “Lets not forget the NFC East 2020!”

The deck will be shuffled a number of times in the upcoming weeks.  The cream may rise to the top, but the thus far mediocre may rise there as well.

As many QB’s line up to dethrone Tom Brady, many a kicker is lining up to be the next double doinking Parkey or Blair Walsh, ready to ruin a season.

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#3 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:18pm

"Meanwhile the Jets take on the Texans, in the battle of the few, the not proud, the nearly eliminated Bowl."


Hey, it's also the Undefeated-Against- the-Number-One-Seed Bowl. Seriously, how bizarre is it that two teams tied for the worst record in the AFC have gone 2-0 against the top team in the conference? There are big upsets and statistical oddities in every NFL season, but that one's an all timer.

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#4 by LondonMonarch // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:38pm

The new Buttfumble is the Shoulderception! What on earth is Wilson thinking there?!

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#5 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:41pm

Indianapolis is blowing some major opportunities early. A FG drive when they started inside the Tampa 40 yard line, two dropped interceptions against Brady (one of which would have been an easy pick six), and now a dropped 3rd and 2 that was itself nearly a pick six. 

ETA: And now they fumble inside their own territory.

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#6 by LondonMonarch // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:44pm

Do the refs not know the down-by-contact rule? Did they think he had "given himself up" (whatever that means) - totally inexplicable. And didn't even correct themselves when Vrabel pointed it out.

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#7 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:47pm

Falcons beating Jags, but not by too much... The impossible dream of the worst-ranked team in DVOA making the playoffs lives.

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#9 by fynsta // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:53pm

Wait, do you mean "the worst-ranked playoff team ever" or "the worst-ranked team in the league makes the playoffs"? Both seem possible...

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#8 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:48pm

Ah, McDaniels. 


Drive 80 yards in 5 plays on short, quick developing passes against a base set, hit the 10 yard line and then immediately run two slow developing running plays. 



Just can't help himself. Absolutely has to run on 1st and second down in the red zone. 

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#10 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:56pm

to Waddle

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#11 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 1:59pm

Two missed kick for the Titans, an XP and a FG. Not looking great for Tennessee. They need all the points they can get since they show little sign of being able to slow down the Pats on offense.

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#12 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:03pm

And a big punt return after a ST penalty. Kicking room is going to be fun monday

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#13 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:15pm

On the flip side, the Patriots haven't shown much ability to stop TEN's offense at this point either. 

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#14 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:23pm

After a 90-yard TD drive by the Colts, TB goes up tempo and moves easily down the field for their own 84 yard TD drive

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#15 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:27pm

Wow at that 31-3 Bengals Steelers margin. The Bills are the kings of variance but Cincinnati have plenty of variance too.

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#16 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:28pm

from the PS.

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#17 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:30pm

On third and three with under a minute left the Patriots give up a 68 yard rushing TD... NE has been the better team this half, but that's a devastating play.

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#19 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:32pm

would like Jonathan Taylor to be on the field. 

Let him break the record

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#20 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:39pm

In reply to by ImNewAroundThe…

They do the stupid try to make them jump on 4th and 1. Without Taylor. Bleh. Timeout. Disgusting.

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#21 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 2:45pm

Wow, Colts line up to go for it on 4th and 1 inside the 5 with 0:20 seconds in the half. Try to draw the Bucs offsides and call a TO with 1 second left on the play clock. However, after the TO, they come back out on offense and actually run a play and score a TD.

I’m a little curious on the percentages in that situation. I thought a good part of the go for it math was that if you fail, your opponent is backed up. That doesn’t matter with 0:20 left in the half. 


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#22 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:06pm

Colts have the ball to start the second half. Get a drive going into buc territory. All passes, no runs. Then a Wentz strip-sack recovered by the Bucs

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#25 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:15pm

After a long PI call (which as a Colts fan I’d argue was mostly tangled feet, but I’m biased) Fournette scores his 3rd TD to pull the Bucs within 3

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#26 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:16pm

Thanks for the link!

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#24 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:14pm

I finally caught up to the DVR; I feel like Tennessee should really be ahead by 10 in this game. They're dominating both lines, but turnovers and field position has given New England a ton of FGs. 

ETA: And right as I type this, Bourne scores on a long catch & run. I still feel like Tennessee is playing better today; I'm curious how DVOA scores the game. That said, there's plenty of time left in the game.

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#68 by Alternator // Nov 28, 2021 - 6:57pm

DVOA probably doesn't much care for the Titans, since gaining four to five yards every single play is less than the league average yards per play.  Of course, doing it EVERY PLAY means that you still have a very good offense, even if efficiency metrics disagree - if DVOA was drive based, I imagine the Titans would rank much, much higher.

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#85 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 8:06pm

They don't get four or five yards every play. For the season they are averaging 4.5 yards a play. Obviously they have some long runs making up part of that average, so four or five yards every play isn't happening.

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#27 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:31pm

An eight minute drive for Tennessee ends with a fourth and goal pick. The touchback means they don't even manage to pin the Patriots near the endzone. That's not quite game over, but we're getting there.

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#28 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:33pm

Looked like the Colts got a red zone stop, but Bucs bailed out by a fairly weak PI call in the end zone and run it in the next play. 

Each team has had 2 drives in the 3rd quarter. Colts with 2 turnovers and the Bucs with 2 TDs. Bucs are rolling now. 

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#30 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:38pm

This was a winnable game for the Colts, and they're blowing it. It's easy to scapegoat Weintz, but the sack/fumble was on his OL, and the receiver was at least partially responsible on that INT. No, he shouldn't have floated it like that, but the receiver had position, and didn't even jump. 

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#32 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:41pm

Colts then go 3 and out (with a holding penalty and a false start) to punt it away from their own 20, down 4 to start The 4th quarter. 

i expect the Bucs to be up 11 shortly. 

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#35 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:45pm

Colts actually force a 3 and out. Then muff the punt return. Bucs recover on Colts 20

3 turnovers in the second half for the Colts 

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#29 by mathesond // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:34pm

The Eagles keep shooting themselves in their feet.

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#31 by Romodini // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:40pm

So Kyle Van Noy doesn't turn his head around and makes contact with the receiver, but that's not PI on third down?

Do any two teams of refs have the same conception of what constitutes PI, or is it determined by arbitrary scents on the wind and how much money they have riding on games?

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#33 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:43pm

People want the refs to have "discretion" - that's what this is. You get whatever the fuck they feel like is PI that day. 


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#37 by Romodini // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:00pm

At this point I'd rather see PI and OPI eliminated and replaced with clear and obvious bans on shoving, tripping, and grabbing. Outside of that, let the players fight for the ball and take the arbitrary, bs reffing out of the game as much as possible.

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#43 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:08pm

I'm not far from that at this point. 

We've had average passing go up by like 1000 yards per team (in the last 15 years), and 8 or 9% completion percent - INTS are way down, and scoring way up. I'd love to see defenses having more options. 

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#47 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:19pm

I agree, especially offensive domination doesn't necessarily result in exciting games. At their most effective offenses today will march down the field without even facing many third downs. The lack of resistance is boring. Curbing the passing offense would also make the rushing game more important too. I would like it if great players like Derrick Henry actually played a large role in how good teams are.

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#64 by Noahrk // Nov 28, 2021 - 6:04pm

Put my signature in the letter to the NFL, as well.

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#67 by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 28, 2021 - 6:52pm

I concur.  Leaving anything to the ref's discretion is tantamount to admitting "we don't know what the penalty actually is, but we'll know it when we see it".  Except everybody sees it differently.

Bright line tests are the way to go and if you can't write the rule as a bright line, then don't make it a penalty until you figure out exactly what you want the rule to be.

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#93 by Spanosian Magn… // Nov 28, 2021 - 9:09pm

Hard agree. Same thing with holding - make it illegal to grab the jersey, or to contact the other player with your arm parallel to the chest, or to restrict their movement by contact outside the chest area if your shoulders are perpendicular, or something specific and easily discerned in real time. Players will adjust, and then it won't feel like drive-altering penalties are just failed dice rolls.

EDIT: Just noticed I wrote "parallel" instead of "perpendicular". Not that anyone cares.

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#70 by RobotBoy // Nov 28, 2021 - 6:59pm

I share your frustration and would also like defensive players to have more leeway in pass defense. The problem is that 'clear and obvious' is not, in real time or instant replay.  There's  so much at stake that players will of course figure out what the refs will flag, and push to the limit at every opportunity. 'Clear and obvious' often isn't what makes it impossible for  a receiver to catch a ball. Is giving a receiver's arm a slight tug as he goes up for ball 'clear and obvious'? What happens to timing throws when you can do everything to a receiver but 'shove, trip and grab'? It would again come down to judgement calls from the refs, just using a different standard. When you have guys making $60,000 a year trying to keep up with the deceptions of millionaires, the millionaires are going to find ways to game the system more often than not. Kind of like the stock market.

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#76 by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:16pm

I don't agree.  The facemasking rule is clear and obvious.  The roughing the kicker rule is clear and obvious.

Write the pass interference rule the same way and leave all the stuff you've mentioned as legal.  Better that grabbing and tugging always be legal than that it sometimes be legal, sometimes not.

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#95 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 9:38pm

Bright, clear rules are both easier to officiate, and easier to understand for fans. 


Make *any* push off illegal - not just ones that impede. You could even make any contact illegal.  Or make contact legal and go to holding rules - you can push, chop, whatever, you just cant grab. 


And for fucks sake, put someone on a TV monitor and let them change rulings if they want. The entire 'challenge' system is unnecessary.  



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#100 by Romodini // Nov 28, 2021 - 11:14pm

I wouldn't mind seeing holding penalties limited to egregious tackles, chokeholds, and arm bars. I think it would be pretty hard to ban grabbing considering it already happens on every play. Perhaps allow it until the point a defensive player gets behind an o lineman so they can't grab a rusher from behind and drag them backwards. Maybe the increased time created in the pocket resulting from relaxed holding would counteract some of the added difficulty of receivers getting open with relaxed PI rules.

But definitely any kind of updated, clear rule is preferable to the current mess.

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#105 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 29, 2021 - 1:35am

For the 'ban grabbing' I was speaking specifically in the context of pass coverage. 

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#82 by Anon Ymous // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:48pm

Because he didn't make contact?  None that I could see, anyway, at least until the ball hit the receiver in the hands.  

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#90 by RobotBoy // Nov 28, 2021 - 8:51pm

Looks like he raised his arm and contacted the receiver as the ball arrived.

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#91 by Anon Ymous // Nov 28, 2021 - 8:57pm

I don't see any real contact until the ball gets there.  Certainly there is no impeding of a receiver trying to get back to the ball, which is how Van Noy's poor technique would usually be flagged.  

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#101 by Romodini // Nov 28, 2021 - 11:22pm

I agree he didn't impede the receiver, but from the angles showed by the broadcast, it looked to me like he made contact before the ball arrived. Would have to look at it again. This was the play before the 4th down interception, just to be clear.

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#34 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:45pm

Looks like the Patriots are gonna pull this one out, but holy shit does their run defense look bad today. I'm hoping its just a bit of hangover from Barmore's injury. But holy shit does this look like a problem.

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#36 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 3:53pm

I think Tennessee just matches up really well with them; if not for the turnovers, this would have looked a lot like the playoff game a couple years ago. NE better hope they win the division and somebody else knocks TN off in the first round, because I don't think they'd win a rematch. 

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#41 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:06pm

They definitely got a bit beat up in the first half, but they absolutely dominated the 2nd half - some of that (the 4th quarter) comes down to Tenessee being a team that definitely isn't built to play behind, and once they got behind enough that they had to throw, Tannehill becomes a liability. 

But yeah, their lines are great, and if they'd managed to come out of the first half with a lead things may have been very different. 

That being said, TN turns the ball over a lot - and NE's defense forces a ton of turnovers - so I wouldn't expect turnover differential to change much.

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#48 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:24pm

Qualitatively, this game just felt a lot closer than the final score, and I just don't know how predictive those two fumbles were. The INT was a great defensive play with the game still in reach, but the two fumbles lost, plus the missed FG and missed XP, just felt like they offended the Random Numbers God despite controlling the line of scrimmage.

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#57 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 5:00pm

The first half felt like one of those games where the opponent is outplaying them but keeps making mistakes and the Patriots weren't putting enough points on the board to pull away. 



And then they went up 26-13 in the 3rd and it was clearly over at that point.  The Titans are just really poorly suited for playing from behind. Tannehill is a good QB if you can mix things up, but he's not suited for that. 

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#71 by Alternator // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:01pm

The second fumble was JC Jackson with a peanut punch, so it was forced rather than the Titans player losing his grip as he was pulled to the ground.

I don't think the Patriots ever went into a heavy run-defense set, sort of just accepting that the Titans would get lots of pretty good runs as the price for never letting the Titans passing game get going.  Unlike 2019, the Patriots actually have an offense that can score to make that plan a lot more practical.

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#78 by RobotBoy // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:27pm

I think one of the biggest positives for the Pats is Mac's continued development into a bonafide decent NFL QB. NE's struggles on the ground, especially in the first half, meant he had to make more throws downfield. And for the most part, he executed.

Mac Jones:

7.3 YPA

7.0 AYA

Mac Jones since week 7:

10.6 YPA

8.6 AYA

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#42 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:06pm

DVOA will probably like that Tennessee performance a bit more than the scoreline might suggest. Perhaps the gap between what DVOA thinks of the Titans and what the general public thinks of them will shrink a bit.


NE look pretty damn good though, one way or another. They probably won't move into the 1. seed this week but they are certainly one of the top AFC contenders. Those games against the Bills will be interesting.

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#46 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:18pm

Honestly, I have no idea what DVOA is going to say about that game. 

On the one hand, New England scored on almost every drive (one punt, one missed field goal), and could basically move the ball at will between the 20s, and on the other, they couldn't run the ball at all, and got stopped repeatedly in the red zone. 

On the Tennessee side, they ran for 270ish yards at 8 yards a carry. On the other hand, Tannehill had less than 50% completion rate, threw for 90 yards and a Pick, and they put the ball on the ground 5 times. 

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#49 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:28pm

Good grief, Tannehill finished 11/21 for 90? Didn't he start the game 8 for 8? I think I have to take back what I said about TEN dominating... that is terrible.

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#54 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:53pm

Yeah, they pretty much destroyed him in the 2nd half. It's just tough to tell how much of that was adjustments and better defense, and how much of it was the score getting more desperate and Tannehill bring forced into more obvious throwing situations. 



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#62 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 5:54pm

I don't think they were really desperate and forced to air it out until the after INT in the end zone, down 13. That was a 16-play, 8 minute drive; a TD there puts the down a score with most of a quarter left to play. I'm curious what the change in win probability was after that play. 

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#84 by Anon Ymous // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:57pm

The only possession that qualified for "desperate" was the quick 3 and out after NE went up 29-13.  The drive prior to that, TN was still within 13 points, had nearly a full quarter to work with and was still running well.  So three incompletes in the second half can be credited to the situation.

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#94 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Nov 28, 2021 - 9:33pm

We disagree on what desperate means. I think as soon as a team built like Tennessee is down by 2 scores, they're in serious trouble.   They do not have the passing talent to shoot themselves out of a hole. 



That game was largely over when the Patriots went up 26-13. 

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#117 by Anon Ymous // Nov 30, 2021 - 12:38pm

TN started their drive after NE went up 26-13 with 4:00 still to go in the 3rd quarter.  They opened the 4th in the red zone.  Under no circumstances can that be called "desperate".  Even less so given how easily TN moved the ball on that drive.  They were two yards from only being down 26-20 with more than 10 minutes remaining for goodness sake!

Only after they failed to get those two yards, and NE tacked on three more points while rolling off four more minutes is it appropriate to use that term.  

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#39 by ChrisLong // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:03pm

Colts are a good team, and Frank Reich is a damn good coach

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#40 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:03pm

3 more scrimmage yards. Has the rushing TD.

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#60 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 5:22pm

But Reich keeps him on the sideline for the last couple plays?

Half of his carries came on the drive right before, when they were down, so 8 carries in the first 3.5 quarters with a good amount of that time being up. Sounds like this is a thing with Reich alternating between him and Hines for some reason (JT is blowing him away in receiving DVOA and DYAR this year, so that's not it). 

To be exact they did 26 straight dropbacks (2 sacks) from 58 seconds left in the 2nd up 17-14 to 10:06 in the 4th down 24-31. 21 minutes and you don't try to run down the clock once with the best RB in the NFL is something. And I know RBSDM but that's something else.

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#103 by Bobman // Nov 29, 2021 - 1:09am

Back when Freeney was not a starter until week 8 (and STILL led all rookies in sacks, but Peppers was the higher draft pick, was only a half sack behind IIRC, and maybe missed four games due to a PED suspension?), there was a saying:  The only person who could stop Dwight Freeney was Tony Dungy.

I'm feeling the same way about Reich and Taylor. I thought last week was a turning point, but I was wrong.  He said in his post game presser that he had no idea Taylor only touched the ball twice in their span of 26 consecutive passes. "Usually somebody tells me something like that... but they probably didn't because we were doing so well." (I'm paraphrasing, but pretty close) 

Accountability, folks... that and the ability to count. Both are important.

Please feed your best weapon more.

signed, football fans everywhere (but mainly Colts fans)


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#44 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:09pm

Holy crap the Giants won! 

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#45 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:15pm

Should Fournette have even scored? It's not going to matter, either way. I suppose he should have because a chance of a FG miss is higher than the Colts getting a miracle TD.

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#52 by Ben // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:42pm

A Hail Mary pick is the appropriate ending to that game. 4 second half turnovers for the Colts

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#53 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:49pm

So... the Packers just opened with a 15 play, 8 minute drive that ended with a 23 yard punt.

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#56 by DisplacedPackerFan // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:59pm

They wasted a time out too. Also had a 4th down conversion.

Defense then does a great job forcing a turnover so GB gets the short TD drive.

But that was an interesting opening drive. I would love to know what DVOA rates it.

Defense comes up with another big stop on 4th for another short field for the offense as I was fighting with my phone keyboard and taking forever to write this.

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#58 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 5:14pm

And to hurt Crosbys confidence on what looked like a 56 yarder, which he's hit multiple of longer in his career. 

Thankfully he hit the next opportunity but still not great process. 

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#55 by vrao81 // Nov 28, 2021 - 4:55pm

Broncos have run 27 plays to the Chargers 6.

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#59 by DisplacedPackerFan // Nov 28, 2021 - 5:17pm

So it looks like the Rams are doing some of the things MN did to find the holes the GB secondary. GB has generally had better pressure than they did against MN which helps. Stafford had a bad throw on another where the receivers had what they wanted. 

They burned Sullivan though. It looks like Barry did respond and change some of the responsibilities so the corners end up isolated instead of the safety. It was Stokes who got isolated on the bad throw. I think that's good, but yeah Sullivan, who is CB 4 or 5 if everyone was healthy, and is generally fine did get put in the wrong leverage. I don't like seeing them give up big plays but I can live with it. Seems like they have adjusted after the MN game. So another point in favor of Barry and against my reaction to his hire.

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#61 by DisplacedPackerFan // Nov 28, 2021 - 5:52pm

They might overturn it, but it looks like Adams left hand didn't move at all when the ball touched, that was nuts, how strong are his hands?

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#63 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 5:59pm


Hopefully we pour it on in the 2nd half.

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#65 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 6:23pm

and they STILL allow MULTIPLE yards beyond the 1st marker

Hate to love it....because we ultimately get a TD anyway lol.

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#66 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 6:51pm

Underdog Packers and Broncos both up by three scores.

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#69 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 6:59pm

I wonder if going for two from the seven-yard line was still a good decision for the Rams.

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#72 by KaosTheory // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:04pm

For a smart guy, Sean McVay can be pretty dumb sometimes.

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#73 by KaosTheory // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:04pm

For a smart guy, Sean McVay can be pretty dumb sometimes.

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#77 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:24pm

still the best NT.

Stafford really should know by now to not hold that long.

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#79 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:31pm

Packers and 49ers miss a kick from almost the same spot within less than a minute of each other. The game's stay a little more interesting.

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#87 by oaktoon // Nov 28, 2021 - 8:20pm

They had a brief chat right before Rodgers went out to huddle. 3rd and 4-- Rams out of timeouts. They went pass to Adams-- and if it doesn't work FG attempt. With a guy despite the three successful FGs in this game has been a wreck. And even if FG is good, it's still a two score game I think running Dillon twice was the better call-- worst case two minute warning and same score and slightly worse ball position for Rams. Best case game over.... Game over if Adams makes the catch too but he was tightly covered because Rams aren't stupid.

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#80 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:41pm

Really ran it there? Wow

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#81 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 7:42pm

Dont waste my time w/another timeout on a flippin onside kick.

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#86 by oaktoon // Nov 28, 2021 - 8:14pm

The so-called Big Six-- 38-8 thru week 8; 7-14 since with only Rams-Packers between any of the two teams.

ARIZ for #1 seed? They must play at DALL, home to Rams and Colts.. I would say 14-3 is doable; 13-4 perhaps more likely-- and if it's the latter they will be #2 or #3 (GB owns the tiebreaker

GB would have to win out for #1-- away game at BALT in three weeks going to be the key

TB has easier schedule-- home to Bills the toughest

Can DALL stop the bleeding and win all those NFC East games?

For argument sake the champs get #1, then GB, ARIZ and DALL

Wild cards in order should be SF or LA the 5-6 seeds, then maybe MINN or PHILLY at 7 despite the outcomes today. Saints seem cooked to me. Falcons, Seahawks, Panthers are simply bad teams...

So MINN or PHILA at GB-- and Vikes play at Lambeau in December as well... SF/LAR at DALL (Terrell- come find the star!!) the other at ARIZ

SF or DALL at TB  ARIZ at GB  (I think the Rams are much less likely to beat Cowboys in Texas than SF is)

Very likely to see GB-TB again in NFC title game, though this time in Florida


Points: 0

#88 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 8:31pm

proving almost anyone can play RB.


Points: 0

#92 by Spanosian Magn… // Nov 28, 2021 - 9:01pm

I feel like if you have 12 men on the field, call timeout, then still have 12 men on the field and get the penalty, the other team should get a point or something. That's just embarrassing.

Points: 0

#104 by Bobman // Nov 29, 2021 - 1:12am

Though losing 5 yards AND a timeout is a pretty good penalty for such buffoonery.

Points: 0

#96 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 9:44pm

Fake FG baby.


Points: 0

#97 by Independent George // Nov 28, 2021 - 9:52pm

And I'm done for the night. This is a sloppy, sloppy game, and neither of these teams are going anywhere regardless of who wins the division.

Points: 0

#98 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 28, 2021 - 10:00pm

by kneeling into half. Why would Baltimore even call a timeout if you're going to kneel it anyway? Man at least run some crappy draw or something. 

Points: 0

#99 by Cythammer // Nov 28, 2021 - 10:51pm

The camera from the back of the endzone is angled downwards... I think that is making it look like this ball hit the ground when it didn't.

Points: 0

#102 by DIVISION // Nov 28, 2021 - 11:43pm

Cleveland has a good roster but is poorly coached and has a bad QB.  They need to let Mayfield walk.  If you manage 4 INT off Lamar Jackson and score 10 points, you are not a good team.  

Baltimore may be 8-3, but they are fraudulent.  Horrible on offense and you don't know what you'll get with Lamar Jackson.  He doesn't have the arm talent that any of the top QB's do.  I don't ever want to hear anyone put him in a Top 10 list.  You could say Justin Tucker is their MVP.  The only thing the Baltimore Ravens do well is play the run on defense.

As strange as it seems, New England may be the best team right now in the AFC.  Cinci maybe?

Points: 0

#106 by Theo // Nov 29, 2021 - 6:40am

What are the Steelers doing?

They run Harris into a pile on first down for one yard. Then it's another run, or a receiver screen for one yard. Then on 3rd and 8, it's a quick out for 3 yards. 4th and 5 punt.

When Ben thinks the play call sucks, the chucks it deep for a jump ball.

That's the entire 2021 Steelers offense. 

Harris will be injured soon.

Ben plays like an overaged stripper dances.

On defense they're playing Bush - perhaps the worst starting player in the League.


Points: 0

#107 by AFCNFCBowl // Nov 29, 2021 - 1:36pm

This Ravens team, if they get it, might be the worst #1 seed in DVOA.

Points: 0

#108 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 29, 2021 - 9:31pm

Seattle ties it up on a blocked XP!!!! What a play by Green! 

(wish there was a Monday thread)

Points: 0

#110 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 29, 2021 - 9:40pm

Buuuuuuut a stupid waste my time try to make them jump offsides timeout. After a WFT timeout, just for them to...kneel.


Points: 0

#109 by jheidelberg // Nov 29, 2021 - 9:37pm

The broadcasters seriously thought Punting Pete was going to go for 4th and 1?

Points: 0

#111 by jheidelberg // Nov 29, 2021 - 10:20pm

56 plays WFT, SEA 24, Seahawks at it again

Points: 0

#112 by Spanosian Magn… // Nov 29, 2021 - 11:08pm

Welp, I saw Football Team score the TD to make it 9-7, stepped away for a second since who cares about the rote XP attempt, and apparently missed the play of the year.

It feels like a lifetime ago that Seattle was a chic Super Bowl pick. Their defense has held up reasonably well, considering the offense has done absolutely nothing, but about said offense... they can't run and can't pass block, but also can't throw. Not a great combination! The receivers don't seem to get a ton of separation, generally, and Wilson can't "throw them open", which he used to be one of the best at. Maybe his finger is still bothering him, but I feel like you shouldn't have to make pinpoint-accurate throws to score more than 1 TD against the 30th-ranked pass defense. Lockett's DVOA is pretty good but he hasn't gotten open consistently that I can see, and Metcalf's is also ok but he can't seem to win jump balls against bad CBs half his size... Maybe it's just a bad night, but this is pretty grim.

Points: 0

#113 by jheidelberg // Nov 29, 2021 - 11:25pm

I must assume that the Seattle player did not know the rule about lining up outside the hashmark so it is an illegal formation on onside kick, nullifying recovery.  ST coach gotta do better.

Points: 0

#114 by Spanosian Magn… // Nov 29, 2021 - 11:27pm

Seattle definitely didn't deserve to win, but Football Team probably deserved to lose for giving up a TD that open in that situation and then the erstwhile onside recovery (undone by a procedural penalty that did not affect the play). Yeesh.

I think the announcer (Tessitore I think) used the old WFT nickname, then had to awkwardly emphasize "W-F-T indeed," heh.

Points: 0

#115 by ImNewAroundThe… // Nov 29, 2021 - 11:32pm

No rollout 2 yards out with Russ? Most losses in the Russ era. Coaches really might just have a 10 year shelf life 

Points: 0

#116 by Pen // Nov 30, 2021 - 1:47am

Seattle avg. TOP pre-finger Russell Wilson: 24:50
Seattle avg. TOP Geno Smith: 28:26
Seattle avg. TOP post-finger Russell Wilson: 19:36

those numbers do not include the Rams game where Wilson injured his finger.
Rams game avg. TOP per Qtr Russell Wilson: 5:52
Rams game avg. TOP per Qtr Geno Smith: 9:20

Wilson was rushed back too quickly and honestly, hasn't been himself since midway last season anyways. That always compete mantra obviously doesn't extend to letting Geno Smith start instead of Wilson.

Points: 0

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