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Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Here is your thread for discussion all week of Super Bowl LI between the Falcons and the Patriots, and then discussion throughout the game and afterwards on Sunday, February 5.

Comments

157 comments, Last at 06 Feb 2017, 11:55am

1 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I understand the Steelers are not playing in the Super Bowl but dont know where to share this.
Apparently LeVeon Bell requires surgery...
It's really concerning that in a big win over the Dolphins Bell had close to 30 carries and backup DeAngelo had 2 carries.

During the season, Williams hardly ever played in place of Bell.
Considering that health is one of the biggest factors to make it to the Super Bowl he correct use of his players is what Tomlin fails at time and time again.

5 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Between handoffs and receptions, Bell carried the ball 400 times in 14 games before the AFCCG. It wasn't a fluke that they lost Bell for the playoffs. It would have been a fluke for Bell to actually stay healthy and effective through a SuperBowl with that kind of workload. Meanwhile, the offense depends on him to a huge degree. That's just not a formula for success.

Have to hope they haven't wrecked his future as well.

3 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Matt Chatham offers an insightful breakdown of Atlanta taking advantage of defensive mistakes made by Seattle and GB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qudAttFQACo

He's a former Patriot who now writes about the team, so it comes from the slant of, "simple things that can help slow down the Falcons", but it is still worthwhile. He also made an interesting comment about how Green Bay made elemental protection mistakes and how NE could have countered that rather easily with motion and formation.

If this is the case, then Atlanta will have a very hard time slowing down NE. The same was true of Pitt on their run; their pass rush improved, but it was primarily by scheming free runners rather than winning more 1:1 match ups. As soon as I saw the illustrative analysis on The Ringer, I knew NE would put up at least 30 in the AFCCG. There isn't much reason to think the same won't be true this week as well.

6 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I'm not sure it's as simple as that, though. Even in the game where all of his analysis came true (ATL @ PHL -- ATL couldn't stop power runs or RB passes and PHL dominated time of possession; PHL played a bunch of press on a day Ryan was off), ATL led in the 4th quarter over a good team. It's not like the press worked. ATL responded like an intelligent offense, with a lot of bunched press-breaker formations, they brought men in motion, or they had Jones just beat the poor jamoke across from him.

Basically, ATL's offense seems to respond to what defenses do the same way NE's offense does. Which is something NE's defense hasn't seen this year outside of practice.

7 Re: the 1977 meeting

when these temas had beter uniforms----
https://twitter.com/Raiderjoe_FO/status/827717021454446594

9 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Interesting exchange on Twitter between former NFL doctor, David Chao and ex-player (offensive lineman), Geoff Schwartz regarding Alex Mack's injury. In short, Schwartz had the same injury in 2014--and seems to think it's a pain tolerance thing. Mack's health/effectiveness is a somewhat overlooked storyline in this game. I'm expecting NE to test him with either (i) Branch shaded directly over him or (ii) showing Double-A gap looks early on.

//

David J. Chao, MD ‏@ProFootballDoc 1h hour ago
#AlexMack fibula fracture could be related to the 2014 @Browns ankle injury/surgery. Plate can cause weakness. Why i recommend removal.

//

Geoff Schwartz Verified account‏@geoffschwartz

@ProFootballDoc had the exact same injury in 2014 as Mack. Then in 2015, exactly the same as now. Removed hardware after 2nd fracture

//

@geoffschwartz @ProFootballDoc On a scale of one to Brad Pitt from 12 Monkeys, how crazy is he to play through that injury?

//

Geoff Schwartz Retweeted Kent Lee Platte

It’s just going to be painful. It can’t get much worse.

10 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

It's chat or go home for all the marbles in superbowl FO football chat! We ditched the protocol-that-shall-not-be-named last year in favor of a shiny, disruptive new slack group. For people who are already in, just go to https://kotakuites.slack.com/messages/fo/details/. For anyone that wants to join a star-studded cast of their favorite FO posters for gameday chat, just email me at gamadict@gmail.com and you will receive an invite

11 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I'm not a fan of George HW Bush, but it was good to see both him and Barbara after their health scares. I'm glad to see they're doing better.

14 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Haven't more past super bowls than not been televised on NBC recently? I must have gotten spoiled, expecting Michaels and Collinsworth to bring their typical quality. Hearing Aikman and Buck feels...wrong, dirty, like that 9 year old girl doing stylized simulated sex movements or whatever in the Beiber advertisement. Like my soul wants to vomit.

So disappointing. Why does the NFL allow this, in this game? The Aikman/Buck booth can reliably be counted on to suck the excitement out of the game. This is NOT good for the sport of football. Isn't the point of having a commissioner to protect the sport from exactly this kind of thing?

12 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Falcons looking good. Up 14-0. Running the ball well and passing too. Julio Jones is doubled teamed but still made big catches. Hooper and Gabriel with good catches too. Defense very aggressive, sacking Brady twice, forcing a turnover, and getting a three and out.

21 21-0

I know projections can miss without being wrong, and even a one in a thousand chance happens, but from the get-go Atlanta has looked far superior--talent, execution and coaching.

Seems the mass of anecdotal evidence about New England playing weakened teams and thus being overvalued is substantial. If somehow a model could factor in the wide variance in team performance week to week ... I don't know. Quarterbacks play hurt, matchups matter, and there's so much luck to factor in well beyond fumbles. Patriots look overmatched, a loser in ten out of ten games.

27 Re: 21-0

In reply to by JohnxMorgan

If there's a defense that can cough up a 21 point lead, it's Atlanta.

Trust me. I've watched Detroit for a long time.

35 Re: 21-0

In reply to by Aaron Brooks G…

Given the persistence and effectiveness of the Falcons pass rush, and Atlanta gashing New England on the ground, I would be thunderstruck. But ... ?

81 Re: 21-0

In reply to by JohnxMorgan

Well hot. dog.

My mind is blown.

22 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Trump: Robert Alford, Atlanta's SO-CALLED cornerback could not have made that play against my close friend Tom Brady! If the refs are unwilling to put an stop to this shameful cheating then I'll replace them with someone who is!

[EDIT: this is legit because it's not actually about any politics, right? I'm just imitating a celebrity's style]

23 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Bone headed play calling at the end of the first half. Screen to Bennett? Why not take a shot to the end zone. And they failed to take a time out to stop the clock at about 53 seconds. They just let it run.

25 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I was up at 5 AM setting up a smoker for pork butts, beef ribs, and sausage, and right now I'm doing my best Arthur Blank dance impersonation! I will agree that Atlanta has gotten the bounce of the ball, as long as I can stipulate that there is design in getting the ball bouncing in the first place. The way Alford jumped the pick-six, I think he must have seen that pass 30 different times in film sessions.

I'm happy, happy, happy, even with the little Falcons fan voice in the back of my head reminding me that the Falcons have always been more mortal than most.

26 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Truth is Patriots athletic deficiency finally caught up with them. Falcons are faster, quicker, tougher, younger... If Ryan can keep his cool this could be 3 TDs or more... First series and a quick 3 and out or turnover is Pats only chance. Most of America is happy tonight--- those who didn't like Pats for Spygate and Belichikian arrogance hated them for Trump/Brady/Kraft.. Good guys are winning.

28 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

The story of the game is the pressure Atlanta have been able to apply on Brady. Unexpected and shocking. I have my doubts over whether they will be able to sustain the pass rush late into the game, but at this stage it doesn't really matter. Atlanta are going to score some more.

38 All that

and the Patriots win probability stands at 4.5%.

39 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Atlanta will "take speed over size on any position except d-tackle" on defense. I wonder if that's true, and if it is, why doesn't speed matter at tackle?

45 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

With the score 28-9, early in the 4th, New England is driving and they have all of their time outs. This could be a real game here and I wouldn't be surprised to see this come down to the final few minutes.

46 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

So with just under 10 to play, New England brings it to within 16. If Atlanta can't put together a time-consuming drive (even if it doesn't score)-- OR if New England manages to pull of the on-sides kick, I am not confident of an Atlanta win.

57 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Don't know if fault is Shanahan or Ryan, but running a play on 3rd and 1 which required that much time in pocket seems amazingly bizarre to me...

58 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Atlanta is blowing it. It's now an 8 point game and tons of time on the clock. If Atlanta doesn't do something this next drive, New England will win and all we are going to hear about for the next eight months is the greatness of Tom Terrific and the Patriots.

59 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

This could be Clinton-Trump all over again-- nobody in their right mind thinking Trump had a chance... That pass to Freeman might be the bIlly Bush tape :)

62 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

With all due respect to those two catches, from a sheer athletic standpoint, that catch was even better than both of those two. And just as vital..

63 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

What a ridiculous series of plays by Atlanta. A sack and then a holding penalty put them out of field goal range. So now they give New England the ball back with 3:38 left.

64 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Wait wait wait...Mercedes sponsors the "next-gen" stats on Fox NFL broadcasts? Everyone here is huge on next-gen stats! How come Fox hasn't actually used or even mentioned one such stastic at any point of any broadcast this season?

66 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

MVP or not, Ryan is falling apart... Should never have been in position to take sack/fumble on 3rd and 1.. and that 2nd down sack in FG position was equally bad...

67 WP has hardly changed

Still 95% chance Atlanta wins as of 3:30 in the 4th, but holy crap has the perceived win probability changed.

79 Atlanta screwing up all of the small stuff

Challenging that stops the clock before the two minute warning, spends their final time out, and wipes out all further challenges.

Inexperience leading to panic, methinks.

92 Re: Atlanta screwing up all of the small stuff

Yep, that challenge was ill-advised and the flag came out way too fast for him to have consulted anyone.

New England's special teams killed it on that first coffin-corner kickoff, but Atlanta's special teams blew the second one big time. The returner fielded the ball IN THE ENDZONE! Just kneel! That bit of panic cost almost 20 yards, which might have made a difference.

84 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I never understand how the Patriots can block cornerbacks on screens while the ball is in the air without ever drawing a flag.

90 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

1) Plenty of teams get away with that.
2) A penalty was called on the Patriots in the third quarter for exactly what you described:
2-10-NE 47(13:02) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to D.Amendola to NE 45 for -2 yards (B.Poole). Penalty on NE-C.Hogan, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

85 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Atlanta is totally going to blow this game. It would just be a laughable tragedy except that we'd have to hear from the New England for what become be an endless off-season.

95 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

First down at the 25. Game over. See you all next season. I will be avoiding NFL-related media for awhile just because I cannot handle the New England fans.

97 Really ... that was incredible

Not my team, in fact I root against them, but that was the greatest comeback in sports history, I think. Or in the conversation. Awesome, staggeringly awesome Super Bowl.

99 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Biggest choke job in NFL history...maybe professional sports history. Somewhere, Pete Carroll and Darrell Bevel are saying "Now THAT'S how you blow a Super Bowl".

101 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

That's it. One-sided officiating once again delivers the Super Bowl to the establishment team. I'm done with the NFL. It's been getting worse and worse over the past several decades. Like a lot of people I know, I barely built up enough interest to watch the game in the first place.

109 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Look on the bright side: the Falcons stars are not-old, the defense (which was good until it was totally gassed in the 4th) is young, the head coach is good, and the owner isn't excessively meddlesome. They should be among the favorites next year, and deservedly so.

You could be a Bills fan, destined to look foward to another 7-9 season, or a Jets fan, whose only cause for celebration is their idiot owner being too busy as an ambassador to wreck things full-time.

105 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

God, this game is exactly everything about why I hate the Patriots.

The season starts where, after hacking their way through multiple federal court appeals, Brady finally has to serve his suspension for cheating his way to his last championship. Does that slow them down in the slightest? Of course not. They go 3-1 with not only the backup, but the third-stringer playing quarterback, and cruise to a 14-2 record, while crushing all opposition in the playoffs.

Then, they get to the Super Bowl, and not content with merely being the better team and winning emphatically, they spot the other team a 21-3 lead, then 28-3. They're down 16 with less than ten minutes in the fourth quarter. And then Brady leads the Dramatic Comeback(TM), with the Best Game in Super Bowl History by a Quarterback(TM), cementing his status as the Greatest of All Time.

It's not enough that they're actually good at football and defeated what was an objectively inferior team. It's that the game just had to follow a Narrative, right out of any number of kids' football books. The kind that's going to live down through sports history, told and retold over and over again. It's like God basically came down and scripted the game for their benefit.

Cheaters never win? Hell, according to this season, cheaters are rewarded with what may be, narratively speaking, the greatest victory in the history of the NFL to this point.

110 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Fear of the Patriots dominance leads to anger at the Patriots dominance.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate...leads to suffering.

>Cheaters never win? Hell, according to this season, cheaters are rewarded with what may be, narratively speaking, the greatest victory in the history of the NFL to this point.

You're REALLY going to make this point when the NFC team is the Falcons, who were docked a 2016 draft pick for pumping in fake crowd noise?

113 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Brady only had the "Best Game" if you don't have eyes. Happy feet all first half, pick six, missed open guys, under threw or over threw every deep ball, had game ending pick deflected into the air leading to the Edelman version of the Tyree catch, and then threw a ball in the endzone in overtime that easily could have been intercepted. He made a bunch of good plays as well, to be sure, but he looked more like Matt Stafford than the GOAT in that game. Also, a team has to TRY to lose the game up 8, in solid FG range, at the 4 minute mark.

106 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Think Jed York has some serious buyer's remorse now? Hey Kyle (and Dan Quinn), run the ball three times after the big play from Ryan to Jones and you're the one celebrating now.

125 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

It's ironic that the Falcons were both too conservative AND too aggressive in the second half. Started two drives with 8+ yard runs, then ran the ball into the line resulting in 3-and-outs. I'm pretty sure a play action pass would have picked up a first down in either situations. Then, when they had the FG range, they didn't run when they could have. It's almost like Mike McCarthy was calling the plays.

132 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

No, Mike McCarthy--who may be the worst coach in the NFL because he's so cowardly--would have run the ball three times and kicked the field goal, and would in all likelihood have won the game.

I'd much prefer my coach make aggressive mistakes than conservative ones, but the percentage play there quite obviously was to grind the clock and kick the field goal.

134 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I guarantee every damn Packer fan-- every one of us-- were saying to themselves "well, i guess there is virtue in just running the ball into the line and letting the clock run" It is hard to say whether Shanahan or Ryan are more to blame, but man that was brutal..

112 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

First, congrats to the pats. Second, how in zee hell did the falcons blow this?
They had an 8 point lead with 3:56 left at the pats 23. RUN the Ball and kick a field goal! Instead a holding penalty, and then a big sack, forcing a punt. A field goal ices the game! Come one!

118 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

While a FG just about secures it, field goals do get missed even at short distances, while it's unreasonable to ask a team to plan their play calling around the assumption that somebody will commit offensive holding. Once that happened, calling a pass isn't too unreasonable, since it's the most likely way to pick up the first down (and all but officially end the game). Had it worked, nobody would even regard it as a bold call, so criticism is a little unfair.

I'd agree that Ryan failing to throw it away when the pressure started was a mistake, but people do make errors when stressed. He had a good game overall; where Brady was weak early (and hurt badly by drops) and great late, Ryan was great early but average late. Had the Patriots failed on the final two point conversion, Ryan would have been an easy MVP pick.

Great game, though. Open the season with a rematch, then play it again next February.

123 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

"so criticism is a little unfair"

Sorry, that's nonsense. (I don't mean that in an unfriendly way!) I was yelling "run it" at the TV at the time. FGs inside of 40 yards are made almost 90% of the time, which includes bad weather and cold games. Inside, it's basically an extra point. While it is true that coaches often get too conservative at the end of games, when you are up 8 at the 22, with 4 minutes left, you cannot get too conservative. The game is basically over unless you screw it up. There's no excusing the way Atlanta botched the end of the game.

137 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

> Inside, it's basically an extra point.

Gostkowski had missed an extra point earlier in the game, which is why the Patriots needed a pair of two point conversions to tie it.

I suppose it's that, do you think this is a good risk:

Take a chance at a sack, and at the same time obtain the best chance at converting the (long after the penalty) first down to completely ice the game? An incomplete is worse than a failed run, as well, as it leaves an extra forty-ish seconds on the clock, though a stuffed run that loses yards decreases the chance of a successful FG.

I like aggressive coaching, so I'll defend a coach taking a gamble when the potential payoff is favorable, and I think it was.

140 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I can respect the point of view that the Falcons really needed another ten yards or so to make the field goal a gimme, and that was (a) desirable and (b) likely to require passing the ball.

Where the Falcons jumped the tracks was the part where they opted to run slow-developing full drop passing plays that, if unsuccessful, risked ending in a big 5+ yard sack. Twice!

If you're going to throw there, call a three step drop and quick pass, with instructions to Ryan to just protect the ball and run forward if the pass isn't there; or a play fake and bootleg, again with instructions to Ryan to just tuck and run if the first two reads are covered. That way your downside risk is only losing maybe 1-3 yards, and you still have a makeable field goal if it goes wrong.

If you're thinking "those plays are just what the Patriots will be expecting so I shouldn't do that," that is the point where you've out-thought yourself: if that's what you think, that the Patriots are expecting a pass, then just run the ball.

154 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

So, what, should the Falcons have predicted that one of their players would commit holding, and called plays around that assumption?

The very next play after the Jones catch was a run for a loss of one yard. What if the next runs are also stuffed for a loss, would everyone be screaming that the wrong runs were called?

141 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Hold on a sec. Gostkowski missed an extra point, so the Falcons should have turned down what is basically an extra point's odds of winning the game for what now? There is no value in just being "aggressive." The argument (and it's a good one) is that sometimes being more aggressive than conventional wisdom increases your chance of winning. But if running it 3 times and trying for a FG gives you a 90+% chance of winning, then being "aggressive" is just being stupid. (Even if you increase your expected points on that drive, the beta is a killer.) Plus, basing your decision on Gostkowski missing is a classic bad gambler's reasoning.

Bottom line: the point is to be neither aggressive nor conservative, but always to be smart. Do what gives your team the best chance of winning. You don't need a fancy heuristic when you're looking at 3 runs and a 90% chance of making a FG that puts the game out of reach.

153 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

No, my point is that after the holding penalty, some degree of aggression was warranted. It's not crazy to attempt a passing play, with the best passing offense in the league, immediately after making a fantastic pass to put yourself in field goal range, and then having a run stuffed for loss of yardage.

It didn't work, yes, and it was really aggressive, but that doesn't mean it was some insane idea.

122 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Bad situational football, that's how...strike that; what's more pejorative? abysmal? dreadful? frightful? atrocious? disgraceful? deplorable? shameful? hopeless? lamentable? So bad, you can't even blame the officials (only one questionable call, the non-called blocking OPI on Edelman; meanwhile, a whole handful of plays that Shanahan should never have called, an unforgiveable sack taken by Ryan and a pathetic whiff on a block by Freeman)...

114 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

8:31 left in the game, up by 16, it's third and 1 and your are averaging north of 6 yards per rush... what the hell are you doing calling a pass? Not only is the rush more likely to pick up the first down, it is more likely to keep the clock running if you are unsuccessful and less likely to result in a turnover.

Stupid, stupid decision by Kyle Shanahan.

120 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I have nothing of substance to add to this discussion, I just still can't believe what we've just seen.

Hate to be the parent of a young Falcons fan tonight, how do you handle that as a kid? :'(

Quinn & Shanahan outcoached, was it BB or someone else that said along the lines of "first you have to learn how to not lose games", or did I just make that up?

126 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Record of Super Bowl losers in last 25 not all that great...Bills got there 4 times, of course, but never again... Charger team blown out by Niners never got back.. Steeler team which lost to Cowboys never got there-- it took a total turnover of personnel to make it...Patriot team which lost to Packers imploded-- which led to Belichick's arrival...Packers never got back under Favre.. Falcons never got back with team that lost in 1998...Titans never got back... Giant team which lost to Ravens basically never got back-- was an entirely different Eli/led with Coughlin 7 years later...Rams never got back after losing to Patriots...Raiders crashed and burned after losing to Bucs...Panthers and Eagles never got back with those teams' personnel...Seahawks under Holmgren never got back..Bears never got back...Cardinals with Warner didnt get back...Manning's Colts didn't get back...Steelers have never gotten back after losing to Packers...49ers never got back with Harbaugh.. Seahawks haven't since losing to Pats...look at Carolina this year

Exceptions?? this New England regime of course... And Peyton Manning's Broncos That's it for last 25 years.. Can Ryan and Quinn buck history??

145 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I think the Super Bowl loser is more likely to be the participant that needed luck to get to the big game. Consider the Panthers last season - their W-L record has a ton of variance. I think the Seahawks have remained relevant even while their basic roster strength has slowly eroded. If you go back further, part of the issue is that the NFC had 10 different champions in 10 years from 2001-2010. The AFC side has been, in way of contrast, dominated by a small number of teams. Weird statistical fluke?

Can Ryan and Quinn buck history? Will the offense be able to keep playing at this level after Shanahan leaves? Regression towards the mean suggests not - I'm usually not a fan of this kind of thinking, but if(when) the coach in charge of the offense leaves, that changes a lot. Also, looking towards next season, I still wouldn't think of the Falcons as favorites in the NFC. I suspect the Panthers, Packers, and Seahawks will be better next year, and the Cowboys ought to be favorites in general (though I still don't trust Garrett with playoff games). I don't think the Falcons did enough with two home playoff wins to really separate themselves from the pack.

133 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Crazy, crazy crazy game.

It was nice to see the Patriots stop shooting themselves in the foot in the second half. I think they kind of outcouched/overthought themselves in the first half. All those slow developing sweeps and stretch runs with Blount were absurd.

144 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Yes, those had me baffled. The scouting report said the Falcons' D was fast but possibly undersized. Seems like the last thing you'd do is try running outside, esp. not with Blount. Maybe with Lewis. I'd thought the game plan would be to push through the middle. But the rushing game really never got started.

146 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

The playcalling in the first half was almost surreal - it was all slow developing stuff - it was like they thought they were playing against a big slow defense.

They ran up the middle a couple of times, but it was mostly slow draws.

And the friggen screens? I think they ran the same screen play 5 times and lost yardage each time.

I'm really starting to think that they overthink things, or outcoach themselves - 7 straight superbowls where they don't score in the first quarter at all?

150 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

I think it's often McDaniel arrogance. On those occasions when some aspects of his game plan are clearly not working, he often keeps calling the doomed-from-the-start plays, as if he thinks the force of his will/intellect is ultimately somehow going to make the bad plays work. Can be frustrating to watch sometimes.

155 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

McDaniels is a tough nut to crack - and I'm still not sure whether he's a bad offensive coordinator, or a good one (which is strange considering how successful his teams have been).

There's entirely too much of what you said - where they come out with a completely nonsense gameplan, and just keep at it for way too long. And then there are games where they just cut good teams apart, and he looks brilliant.

He just doesn't seem to be particularly good at making adjustments.

156 Re: Super Bowl LI Open Discussion

Is it possible that the NE is just highly dependent on out scheming the defense rather than winning match ups straight up? So when the game plan for a particular day isn'the working (which is pretty rare), it looks ugly until they figure things out. I think you have to credit McDaniels and Bellichick for figuring it out.