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Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

* Thursday, Dec 18
o Indianapolis at Jacksonville, 8:15 pm
* Saturday, Dec 20
o Baltimore at Dallas, 8:15 pm
* Sunday, Dec 21
o Cincinnati at Cleveland, 1:00 pm
o New Orleans at Detroit, 1:00 pm
o Miami at Kansas City, 1:00 pm
o Atlanta at Minnesota, 1:00 pm
o Arizona at New England, 1:00 pm
o Carolina at N.Y. Giants, 1:00 pm
o San Francisco at St. Louis, 1:00 pm
o Pittsburgh at Tennessee, 1:00 pm
o Philadelphia at Washington, 1:00 pm
o Buffalo at Denver, 4:05 pm
o Houston at Oakland, 4:05 pm
o N.Y. Jets at Seattle, 4:05 pm
o *San Diego at Tampa Bay, 8:15 pm
* Monday, Dec 22
o Green Bay at Chicago, 8:30 pm

1 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Dave Bernreuther // Dec 18, 2008 - 10:35pm

The Jags could be 0-14 and still get up and play like champions against the Colts. Del Rio would be a great coach if he could motivate them like this against the other 30 teams.

Walt Anderson is more than a little flag happy. That Manning guy is good.

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2 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Chris // Dec 18, 2008 - 11:24pm

Note the difference in who is starting at wide receiver. Northcutt may not be the answer to alot of questions, but at least he is fast and makes a defense play a little deeper.

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3 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by DEW // Dec 19, 2008 - 1:05am

Ahh, even in a league rife with parity and 1-15 disasters turning (yay!) to winners the very next season, there are constants. The sun will rise in the east. The Lions will duel with the Raiders for the title of "Who Sucks The Worst This Year." And the Jaguars will play hard-fought, nail-biting games against the Colts only to fall short in the end.

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4 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Bobman // Dec 19, 2008 - 1:20am

Where does the Manning MVP-meter now stand? NO running game, D cannot get off the field (18 play drive for the Jags?) and he hits his first 17, is over 81% with 364 yards and 3 TDs. Add in the fact that their RBs were hit 3 and 4 yards deep every time (nice OL work there, guys). On the road against an out-gunned but very hostile opponent. Maybe he gets dinged for calling any running plays at all!

Kind of curious to see where Vegas puts the odds for the likely Colts/Broncos playoff game. Will the visitor be favored and if so, by how much? I say yes and by 3.5.

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5 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Bobman // Dec 19, 2008 - 1:44am

Sorry to beat the Manning drum more after the game, but I just checked my favorite page here, Drive Success Rate. Indy has, as usual, the fewest in the NFL by a good margin. Kurt Warner has had 22 more drives than Manning--essentialy 3 more games worth of chances--no wonder he has better numbers! Brees has seven MORE drives than Warner! Kerry Collins has had 40 more drives this year--5 games worth for Manning. Well, if the Colts played 21 games to their 16, they'd rack up more wins and insanely better O stats. The CLOSEST other team, SD, still has 15 more drives, or two games worth. Rivers is good, but nowhere NEAR as good as 18. To even the playing field for QBs, give Manning 3 more games and compare traditional stats. He'd lead in yards, TDs, wins, etc. If his D did not give up 18-play drives it would be a little more fair.

Looked at in that light, with the slew of come-from-behind wins and the 8-game streak, it really is no contest for MVP.

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9 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by turbohappy // Dec 19, 2008 - 8:40pm

I've got to disagree. I love the Colts and Peyton, but he was NOT great early in the season and recently against the Browns the offense only scored 3 points. Has he been the most impressive quarterback in the second half of the season? Absolutely. I'd probably have to give it to a defensive player like Haynesworth.

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164 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Dave Bernreuther // Dec 21, 2008 - 8:11pm

Peyton wasn't that bad against Cleveland. He had one bad decision on a pick and otherwise it was just one of those games. Show me any NFL player who doesn't have an off week though.

The thing that makes him stand out to me, though, is that even when he wasn't good in the beginning of the year he still pieced it together enough to carry the team to wins. 2 big drives against Houston (aided by the fumbles, of course), the 4th quarter against the Vikings, and even his 2 minute drill against Jacksonville were all impressive and all in the first month when he was still not 100%.

I have no issues with a defensive player winning it, however. I was in Jenkins' corner until a few weeks ago when he seemed to hit the wall. But to me, the fact that Peyton did what he did in the first month even when hurt works in his favor, not against him.

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6 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Yaguar // Dec 19, 2008 - 3:57am

Manning was unbelievable today, but the most jawdropping play by a Colts player came from Bob Sanders. I know many of you were on NFL Network and unable to see this, but anyone who loves football needs to see this.

Garrard threw a pick-six in the fourth quarter, a truly awful pass. Ratliff picked it off easily. On the return, Bob Sanders took the lead in blocking. The only guy between Ratliff and the end zone is Khalif Barnes.

Bob Sanders, five foot eight and two hundred pounds, runs straight at Barnes, six foot five and three hundred twenty pounds. Sanders engages Barnes head-on and drops him to the ground. It was perhaps the most embarrassing pancake I've seen on a lineman in quite some time. And Sanders is a safety.

Mindboggling. Video here:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d7134a

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7 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by turbohappy // Dec 19, 2008 - 1:58pm

Live it looked like he and Dawson pancaked Barnes together. But on the replay it's clear it was all Sanders.

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8 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by JohnQPublic // Dec 19, 2008 - 8:03pm

After reading that the longest consecutive completion streaks to start a game are by Carr and Brunell at 22 each, I'd be interested to know how the average yardage of those completions compares to the average yardage of the first 17 Manning completed on Sunday.

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22 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Bobman // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:48am

I did not go play by play for them, but overall in each of those games, Brunell threw 24 completions in his game for 261 or 10.875 per total completion (not just the 22 in the streak). Carr, 25 for 223 or 8.92 per comp. Manning, 29 for 364 or 12.55, FWIW. Carr lost, the other two won their games. Oddly, Carr started his game with an INT! Then got hot.

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10 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by joe football // Dec 20, 2008 - 8:34pm

Be sure to join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for IRC football chat! The new server is bendenweyr.dyndns.org, channel #fo

Brief tutorial for the IRC-shy:

- Download mIRC from mIRC.com
- type /server bendenweyr.dyndns.org into the status window
- type /join #fo

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11 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 20, 2008 - 9:04pm

What's the O/U on the number of times the announcers mention that this is the last game in Texas Stadium? Also, Go Ravens.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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13 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 20, 2008 - 10:07pm

Go Ravens indeed!

Did you make it to Chickie and Pete's on Thursday? I unfortunately did not.

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14 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 20, 2008 - 11:45pm

We missed you; it was a sausage fest.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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15 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:11am

Hmmm, something to be said for being the only chick in the room...oh well.

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20 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:37am

You'd have been popular. A tight sweater would have netted you a house. A tight sweater with a plunging neckline would have gotten you a house with a pool.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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25 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:00pm

I actually laughed out loud at that. Thanks for the chuckle! For all you know, I could look like Medusa, complete with snaky hair.

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26 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:08pm

Possible, but as the only woman in the room nobody would even know what you looked like above the collar bone if the sweater was tight enough. We're pigs that way.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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30 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:35pm

You know, I might have heard that once or twice before. :-)

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12 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by The Powers That Be // Dec 20, 2008 - 9:29pm

Your DPOY update:

Ed Reed: INT
DeMarcus Ware: 20th sack, forced fumble

All in the first 3 minutes.

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16 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Pat F. // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:29am

LMFAO!

That is all.

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17 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:29am

I have shattered my mind on the rocky shoals of this game. Nothing makes sense any more.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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18 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by RickD // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:33am

Wow. I have never laughed that much watching a football game in my entire life.

The consensus here is that Terrence Newman is a terrible pussy for his complete non-effort when he was the last man who had a shot at stopping the TD.

Consecutive plays from the offense for two 77+ yard TD runs? Two consecutive 1-play TD drives?

Even though this probably kills the Pats' playoff chances, I'm laughing my ass off.

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19 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Bobman // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:34am

Ravens last two plays from scrimmage: McGahee for 77 yards and a TD, then McLain for 83 yards and a TD.

Tackling issues in Big D?

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21 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by John // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:41am

Wow, that was just...there are no words.

America's Team? Feh. America's Laughing Stock.

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23 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:35am

Anyone who wants to chalk up the loss to Romo's "December woes," I encourage you to watch the last two Ravens running plays of the night. Yeah, Romo didn't play lights out by any means. But you know, once the offense actually got some momentum, the defense just coughed up the game over and over. Overall, this team never fails to disappoint. I'm glad I've wasted another season of meaningless cheers. I don't know what needs to be done to fix this team, but something has to be done. Maybe getting Tony some true playmakers instead of our "playmakers" would help. Honestly, he should throw only to Witten. He's the only guy catching passes who seems to give a you know what about this team and will do anything he can to win games. Romo/Witten is a great foundation but Owens and Williams and Crayton need to get it in gear or get their cars in gear headed out of town. I'm still giving Roy the benefit of the doubt because he has not had time to build chemistry or work with Tony, but if he still is not good next season after having a full offseason of work with Tony, then there is a major problem. All of that said, if he was consistently getting open right now, Tony would find him, regardless of chemistry or experience or what have you. Obviously, he's not getting open. Chemistry can't fix that.

Sad to see the stadium be shut down in such a sad way. I guess there's always next year (just like after every year it seems). I'm setting the over/under for Cowboys' Mean Wins in PFP09 at 6.3. That means they'll finish with 8-9 wins. I think Dallas beats Philly next week and gets in the Playoffs STILL (even with all of this disappointment) if they can get some help from Tampa tomorrow.

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24 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by BucNasty // Dec 21, 2008 - 11:08am

Remember that article Aaron wrote in the offseason expressing his fear that Dallas and New England fans would lose interest in the regular season and only get up for the playoffs? Problem solved.

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34 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:46pm

Not sure I follow. If you're implying that we're out, you're wrong. All we have to do is have the Bucs underacheieve one more time and we're in if we beat Philly. Or have the Falcons lose. As long as we beat Philly, we'll be in unless the Bucs and Falcons both finish 2-0. I don't see that happening.

Speaking as a fan, I don't feel like the regular season was any less important this year than any other. Sure, there was this sense of looking forward to the postseason as a sort of avenging thing, but I never thought the regular season should be taken for granted. Did I feel that this would be a Playoff team? Yes. I did. Is that an unrealistic expectation. I don't think so. Still being alive with 1 to play is exciting. Last night was brutal, but hey, it happens in football. If anything, it showed me that the Ravens are probably better than the Steelers. I think there is just this mental thing that goes on when those two meet that favors the Steelers. Anyways, I knew that getting to the postseason would be tough, even though I expected it to happen. But with all of these injuries this year, I'm not surprised we're in the position we're in right now. It's a little disappointing that we need help to get in at this point, but I'm still blessed that we're not the Lions right now. I appreciate the team and how they perform. I'm a bit disappointed because I think they could've done better, but I'm not going to say this season was a waste. Any season you can watch in which your team is in the playoff hunt is a successful season in my book. So I'm happy.

Good luck to the Vikings, Chargers, Redskins, and Packers this week!

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27 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:35pm

For an MVP candidate, DPOY candidate, Ware sure came up pretty small after that 1st drive awesome play (which was partly due to an actually good rush by Z. Thomas that flushed Romo right into Ware) .... in the game Dallas needed him to be at his absolute best in. He also looked like he should have crashed downhill behind the line on the McClain TD. He might* have gotten there. Of course, he was probably just doing what the coaches told him, but there was NO WAY Flacco was passing there.

Will be really interesting if he ends up stuck on just 20 sacks.

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29 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:24pm

I wonder how much of Ware's quiet day was due to the unbalanced line the Ravens were playing. They were loading up Ware's side and having the LG/LT/TE play a bit feet back from the LOS. The did the same thing against the Steelers for Harrison last week, and he also had a very quiet day. I know Ware's excellent at what he does from the position he does it, but Dallas might have been well served to move him around a little bit to get the favorable match ups or attack the weaker side of the O-Line - as Spagnuolo does with Tuck in New York.

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28 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 12:43pm

Just remembered Dallas gave up their 1st, 3rd, and 6th rd picks for Roy Williams to make this playoff/SB push.

LMAO. If this team couldn't get it done this year, they aren't gonna be improving much for next year in terms of personnel.

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31 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:36pm

We still have 3rd and 6th round picks next year. We essentially gave up a 1st for Roy. You think we'd draft someone better than him in the middle of the first round next year? I doubt it. Thanks for overblowing the situation though.

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35 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:49pm

Well, you still gave up a 3rd rounder as well. Just because you had two doesn't mean didn't give one up. You could have drafted twice in the third round.

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36 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:54pm

Depends on exactly how the draft pans out with UC coming out, etc. Maybe, maybe not.
Also depends on what they plan to do with T.O.

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33 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:44pm

And he got a $45M extension! Yeah, that's not looking like a good deal. And if it wasn't clear at the time, it's definitely clear now that in DET he was also the beneficiary of playing across from an elite WR commanding double-teams on every play, and even then he wasn't playing that great. We do have to wait until next year to see if he's integrated into the offense better, but right now he's just not beating single coverage.

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67 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:10pm

I still say Roy deserves an offseason with Tony before we judge him. Tony doesn't have the confidence in him yet I feel.

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32 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by BucNasty // Dec 21, 2008 - 1:40pm

Looks a bit nippy in New England.

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38 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by B // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:09pm

Just a bit. It's 13 degrees outside here, and we're expecting like 10" of snow, although it'll be less in Foxboro.

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40 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:24pm

If the weather is moving west to east, then expect a heck of a lot of snow. I am about 2 1/2 hours due west of Foxboro, and it's been snowing for a few hours, and hard here for about 60-90 minutes.

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42 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:26pm

The game is already over in New England. Its much worse than the forecast and Arizona has no idea what its doing in the snow. (As I type this Morris runs for 44)

And what does Herm Edwards needs to do to get fired?

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37 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:03pm

Damn Phil Simms calling the PIT-TEN game. Ugh.

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39 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:18pm

Steelers OC Bruce Tardrians great decision there on 2nd down at the Tenn 40 spreading the field wide right with a motioning Parker into the left flanker on the narrow side and Ben under center with an empty backfield. Sack immediately followed.

Meanwhile, James Harrison hurt on a play. Hopefully just a hip pointer or shoulder.

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41 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:25pm

great playcalling there again, Tardrians. BigBen just knocked out with a shoulder to the head trying to run it in himself on 3rd and goal from the 7 after 2 straight running plays lost yards.

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43 Officials

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:26pm

Refs need to get out of the way! Made a phantom call on the Cards who converted 3rd and 1, then failed on 4th and 1. They had to punt, and the Pats just ran a nice screen and are knocking on the door again to go up 14-0.

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46 Re: Officials

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:28pm

This game is going to be over in about 3 yards, and then we're stuck watching this laugher and then nothing else (not Pit/Ten, not nothing!).

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44 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:26pm

Sometimes the pregame storylines and cliches are true - ARI looks pitiful in the snow, NE looks right at home.

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47 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:28pm

Yup. This one is OVER.

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45 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:26pm

glad to see San Diego scored...go San Diego!

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48 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:29pm

Harrison came back in for a play and is now back out.

BigBen looks out of it on the sideline.

This game is over.

*edit, scratch that, Harrison now going to the locker room and likely to not return.

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49 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:30pm

Really? We're stuck watching NE-Ariz. Is Tenn rolling over Pitt, or are you guessing they will based on those injuries?

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51 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:33pm

They just said Harrison won't return, and Leftwich is coming in on 1st and 10 @ the Steelers 2 following Tenn's latest punt.

*Scratch that, BigBen came out after all.

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53 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:38pm

Tenn moving the ball much better with Harrison out.
Steelers almost afraid to send a pass rush without him.

Now Harrison back in.
Gamer. or just decoying to draw blockers away from the other pass rushers?

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50 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:30pm

great, Captain WindMill is coming in for the Steelers after hte Titans down a punt at the Steeler 2.

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52 Cassell in the snow!

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:36pm

Wow, Cassell just threw a beautiful deep ball to Moss, even though it just missed off Moss's fingers. The D had it well covered, but that's an impressive deep ball for any QB.

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54 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:42pm

New England finally had to punt after Moss can't pull in the long ball Purds mentions above (2nd down 8 yard run, 3rd down stuffed), the ball is downed at the 9 and on the next play Hightower fumbles around the 5 and Seau just barely missed recovering. I'm pretty sure the Cardinals now have more punts than yards and may have 0 yards.

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55 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:45pm

Jim Nantz really just said that Russell went OOB on that kick return at the ... 34 ?

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56 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:46pm

It just occured to me...the Eagles game today is surpisingly close to meaningless...regardless of win/lose, whether or not they finish ahead of DAL comes down entirely to their game next week. Unless TB and ATL both win out or both lose out, the game today isn't a factor.

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60 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by tuluse // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:51pm

It could matter with tie-breakers with the Bears.

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64 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Eddo // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:04pm

It may not be meaningless, but it definitely doesn't affect any tiebreakers with the Bears. First, the Eagles have a tie and are unlikely to need a tiebreaker with any team. Second, the Bears beat the Eagles head-to-head, so no other games will affect a tiebreaker between them.

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61 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:52pm

Actually, I am not 100% sure about this, but I think if EITHER TB or ATL lose either today or next week, and the Eagles win out, they can make the play offs.

So go San Diego and Minnesota!

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57 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:47pm

Cortland Finnegan really is a dirty cheap little punk. Complaining about that facemask call?

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58 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:48pm

BigBen with another lost fumble.
Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.

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59 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:51pm

On a free play, Collins hits Gage wide open right over the middle for a TD. Polamalu tried to knock the ball loose, but can't. Hard to say whether Clark turned him loose to Polamalu too late or whether it was just a blown coverage or what.

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62 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 2:56pm

It's really depressing when watching the game on the TV, you can instantly call presnap what Play the Steelers are running (more like... trying to run) ... as if the other team's D.C. and players can't do it.

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63 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:01pm

BigBen clowns Nick Harper on a busted play run-for-his-life then instantly has the confidence to throw a beautiful burn route on the right pylon to Holmes.

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65 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:04pm

For those still watching the ARZ-NE game, thats Cassel's weakness- holding the ball.

I think they just called the Cardinal player for diving at his knees... and Moss just dropped another bomb

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68 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:11pm

Not sure about the knees. The NFL play-by-play had a illegal contact 5-yarder. That could be wrong, but no one went for his knees on that one -- in fact, he never even went down. He was wrapped up but didn't go down -- in the grasp.

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77 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Rich Conley // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:38pm

Purds, one of the defenders dove at his legs right as the whistle was blown. Thats what I figured the call was for initially.

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151 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:33pm

Got it. I didn't see that. Stopped watching after Cassell and the defender stopped dancing in circles.

Of course, the NFL didn't see any knee hit:

(6:27) (Shotgun) 16-M.Cassel sacked at NE 43 for -4 yards (92-B.Berry). PENALTY on ARI-21-A.Rolle, Illegal Contact, 5 yards, enforced at NE 47 - No Play

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66 How easy it would be to be corrupt

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:09pm

Wow. I don't see any conspiracy here as the Pats are killing Arizona in all phases, but it's amazing how just two penalty calls have wiped out pretty much anything good the Cards have done. One was a phantom hands to the face call on Arizona's only converted first down the of the entire first quarter, and the other was just now, when the Cards got their only sack but it was negated by a illegal contact call that the TV never showed. In this game, those calls don't make a bit of difference, as the Pats are clearly the better team, better prepared, better talent, better coaching, etc. But, it made me think about how easy it would be for a crooked ref or two to really alter a close game, with just a penalty/non-call or two. The NFL really needs to make these guys full-time. If this were the AFC championship or SB, with closely matched teams, those cals could make a huge difference.

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79 Re: How easy it would be to be corrupt

by Rich Conley // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:40pm

"The NFL really needs to make these guys full-time"

Because the full time officials in other sports are better? Really?

They need more officials, and the officials need more help. Having them work 12 months wont make a damn difference.

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150 Re: How easy it would be to be corrupt

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:31pm

Well, perhaps they're better paid now than a while ago, but a father of one of my college friends was a line judge when we were in college. I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that he simply flew out on Friday nights, went over the pre-game stuff on Saturday, and then did the game Sunday. That's it. Sure, there was a little pre-season work, but not much. So, my point is that he wasn't rewarded by the NFL in any way except a few bucks, prestige, and a good story to tell the golfing buddies. Now, if one of those guys gets into a beef with a player, a coach, a team, he can really easily change the flow (and perhaps the outcome) of a game.

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69 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:14pm

Come on, San Diego! 17-10 at the half is encouraging. Dallas may be back in the Playoffs and in control after today if things go right.

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70 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:14pm

Harrison massively held on a pass rush up the gut, but Ike Taylor knocks it out of Mccareins hands and the Titans have to punt. A guy with a bum shoulder and hip still requires massive hold to be stopped. Sick.

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71 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:14pm

15 yard penalty on Welker for Snow Angeling (aka the Lonnie Paxton rule)[0-28]

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73 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:18pm

Isn't that a dumb call!?! I understand the whole props rule, but that was just in good fun.

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74 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:21pm

No Fun League

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76 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:38pm

I'd probably be more upset if the outcome of the game wasn't apparent in the first 5 minutes of game time. And Welker probably wouldn't have done it if the game wasn't locked up either since its a pretty cut and dry rule.

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152 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:36pm

Good point, but you'd be amazed what rules these guys don't know. The TV feed was following Welker to the sidelines, and as the stadium announcer boomed that he had been called for a penalty, Welker turned back to the field with a weird look on his face -- could have been he didn't think snow counted, or it could have just been scorn. Either would have been appropriate.

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72 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:17pm

WOW NATE KAEDING!

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75 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:23pm

OMAR YOU DIP! CALL A TIMEOUT THERE AND THROW A PASS IN THE ENDZONE BEFORE SETTLING FOR A FG

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

AND YOU MISS THE FG TO BOOT.

FIRE THIS IDIOT!

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78 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:40pm

Good Lord, man. You are the angriest fan of an 11-3 division winner and probable 2nd seed I've ever seen. You should stop watching football for a few weeks. Go take a walk, reintroduce yourself to your family, get laid. Do something, anything, before your heart explodes.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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82 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:45pm

I do all those things quite frequently. You haven't seen me angry yet.
:)

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83 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:50pm

Then do them more often. You act like the Stillers are the Browns or Bengals. Chill out.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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84 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:52pm

I think you confuse passion, and striving for excellence while refusing to accept mediocrity with anger. This team has talent in place (aside from the OL) to contend for the SB legitimately the next 2-3 years... but after that, the window will shut violently on them. So when their idiot coach(es) does everything in his power to throw a critical win away, I get vocal about it.

$.02

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91 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:00pm

No, I recognize that screaming at the top of your lungs about every setback is the behavior of a child. I suppose it's possible that Tomlin has led this team to back-to-back division titles in his first two years as a coach is some kind of fluke, but there are about 25 teams in the NFL who'll take that kind of fluke. Lord knows, I'm willing to complain about my team, but you act like anything other than 85-0 Steeler wins are some kind of offense against science and nature. This is a good team. Stop pissing and moaning long enough to enjoy it.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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93 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:02pm

Our friend has no idea what it's like to suffer through truly mind-boggling play calls. He should try following the Eagles for a while.

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98 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:11pm

There would be far less for me to complain about IF* Omar had the common sense to dump Bruce Tardrians--- by far his biggest failure so far as a HC.

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103 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Eddo // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:19pm

Fans of every team complain about play calling. If Arians gets replaced, I'm sure you'll find fault with the new guy, too.

Also, the surest way to get people to disregard things you say is to replace the actual names of teams and people with insulting names. This works in a general sense - as soon as I see "Viqueens" or "LenWhale", I lower the poster's credibility level in my mind.

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111 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:32pm

Most fans don't see their team fall 10 spots in OFF. DVOA in a 1 year span while not suffering major injuries or personnel changes. (OL DVOA has surprisingly been about constant from last year for PITT) The decline of the offense is SPECIFICALLY due to the predictable and inappropriate playcalling.

Willie Parker was just gang tackled by 2 Titans for the 4th time today for a loss just as he got a handoff on a delay (the same play has failed 4 times).

WHEN WILL ARIANS( fine, no TARDRIANS) LEARN ?

NOBODY could do worse running the offense than he is doing right now.

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122 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:49pm

Rich Kotite is still out there, somewhere.

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80 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:40pm

Steelers 3 and out from the 40 after getting a nice procedure penalty on the 2nd half opening kickoff OOB. Burce Tardrians with more insanely predictable playcalls.

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81 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:43pm

I will never understand how teams don't commit a spy to Jeff Garcia. He seems to always be running unchallenged whenever he wants to. If he couldn't scramble, the Bucs offense would be next to nothing.

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85 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:53pm

Hines Ward just made Cortland Finnegan his little punk beyotch on that TD

YES!

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86 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:54pm

Jim Nantzy just put the Kiss Of Death on BigBen mentioning his current INT-less streak.

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99 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:12pm

DING DING DING.

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100 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:14pm

:(

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87 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:56pm

Antonio Bryant jeeeebus..........

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88 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:57pm

Horrible defense on that Bryant TD. Not sure how a guy can have a 20 yard radius of open field around him. Hurts when he's 60 yards or so down the field, too.

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89 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:59pm

Come on, Norv. Let's get the offense going.

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90 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Shane S. // Dec 21, 2008 - 3:59pm

Ok, gamecenter just told me NO just had a -24 yard pass play...no problem, since the next play was apparently a 94 yard touchdown pass? Am I seeing things?

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92 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:00pm

Harrison gets a sack even while being held

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94 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:03pm

Damn, Titans TD.

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95 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:03pm

Does Gates one hand catch on purpose to show off? He already has two today.

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96 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:04pm

4th and Inches and the Titans score an easy rushing TD on a misdirection delay pitch to Johnson, who clowns Ike Taylor.... after Tomlin fails to even try a challenge on the spot from the previous play which looked very generous.

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97 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:07pm

Wow that Chris Johnson is a punk.

No idea why Warner is still in this game.

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109 Re: Chris Johnson

by Eddo // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:30pm

What did Johnson do? I missed his touchdown.

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101 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:15pm

Titans another 4th and 3, going for it and converting easily.

Steelers D is finally collapsing in a game thanks to the ineptness of the Offense.

What a waste of a season's worth of effort.

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104 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:20pm

Yeah, they should just give their playoff spot to Dallas. Clearly, they're not going anywhere.

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106 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:22pm

If they can't beat the Titans without Haynesworth, they certainly aren't going to beat them when he returns.

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108 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:27pm

So you'd think losing in the AFC Championship Game would be a waste of a season?

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116 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:40pm

yes

do you think the players are all like "well guys, we were the 4th best team this year, yay! there's always next year!!! "

why would the fans?

Same failure that comes from making 7th place kids soccer trophies.

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190 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jerry // Dec 22, 2008 - 2:32am

I guess you're not a Pirate fan....

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102 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:19pm

Norv is a wimp. Kick the field goal!

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105 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:21pm

And the Steelers give the Titans a 1st and goal on an unsportsmanlike penalty on 4th and inches when Titans had settled for a FG attempt.

NICE DISCIPLINE ON YOUR GROUP OMAR!

FAIL.

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110 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:32pm

Right. Committing a penalty is unacceptable. And it also is all on the head coach. The Steelers would never commit a penalty if they had a better head coach.

Be thankful for what you have. Games are not played on paper (or DVOA).

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119 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by FireOmarTomlin // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:43pm

Did you read what kind of penalty is said it was, or do you just pounce on me from habit?

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186 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Rich Conley // Dec 22, 2008 - 1:07am

"Right. Committing a penalty is unacceptable. And it also is all on the head coach"

Unneccesary roughness pretty much is.

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107 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:25pm

It's sad that Arizona will be in the Playoffs. I'd much rather see a team like the (I can't believe I'm saying this) Eagles get in than the overrated Cardinals. There should be a new rule that if you don't finish above .500, you are ineligible for the Playoffs, regardless of whether you are a Division Champ or not. And the Eagles even beat the Cardinals soundly in the head to head, so that makes it even more ridiculous that the Cardinals would be getting in before the Eagles.

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167 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 9:22pm

I agree. And in the AFC, Miami or NE better get in instead of the Jets, who are just miserable right now.

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187 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Rich Conley // Dec 22, 2008 - 1:09am

Are the jets even eligible anymore? I thought they were over NE because of common opponent, and losing to seattle while NE wins over arizona may take care of that.

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112 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:36pm

My God the hit Jeff Garcia took on a scramble from Jammer... the sound was terrible. Garcia has blood streaming down his face...

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113 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:37pm

Just some terrific action today, KC-Miami, Pitt-Tenn and SD-Tampa are all incredible. Sunday Ticket was made for days like this.

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114 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:39pm

Thank you, Chargers. Thank you for giving Dallas control again.

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127 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by RickD // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:19pm

Hmm..I thought Philly had control.

If both teams have control, is it then true that whoever loses the Dallas-Philly game next week has simply chosen to lose?

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146 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:18pm

Both are in control. Whoever wins next week is in. Being in position and being in control are different things due to the head-to-head next week.

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115 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:40pm

Well looks like San Diego is determined to make Ed Hoculi responsible for them missing the playoffs. They seem to have Tampa on the ropes.

Lessee, in the NFC, the teams fighting for wild cards, Dallas lost and Tampa will too it looks like. This obviously good for Atlanta and Philly. Does Atlanta clinch with a win now?

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121 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:48pm

I think Atlanta does. I'm not sure why or how, but I thought they did. I don't understand though. I believe Dallas has the tiebreaker advantage over Atlanta still (Dallas' last two losses have both been non-conference), and I thought Tampa Bay did too. I know Dallas has the tiebreaker over Tampa Bay, so right now Tampa is out for sure and will need Dallas to lose next week for any chance I think. Philly's game is still irrelevant because next week's game against Dallas will decide everything. I'd say Atlanta has a really good shot at the postseason now. As long as they beat the Vikings, which I don't think they will.

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131 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:31pm

Philadelphia needed to win out and get at least one loss by the Falcons or two losses by the Cowboys or Bucs. Now the Eagles control their fate. I'm not sure what the formula is if they lose today, but I think they'd need the Falcons to lose this week and maybe next week as well. Really, I'm hoping Dallas goes right into the tank after last night and quits on Wade. I have faith in your lack of fortitude, Dallas. Don't let me down.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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148 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:26pm

I think the team might have given up on Ken Hamlin. Not Wade though. I think DAL/PHI will be an incredible game and the winner will be in the playoffs. Unless the Redskins make my day...

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117 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by RickD // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:40pm

I wonder how much of a bump the Pats' DVOA will get from this rout of the Cardinals. In particular, their Pass D should get a big bounce.

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123 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:52pm

Some of the late season weighting (for teams that have nothing to play for) would limit the bump I would think

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154 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Purds // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:42pm

Putting a bunch of soft offensive players from a desert into blizzard conditions might mitigate the bump too, at least in our minds. That is a really weak playoff team there.

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118 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:43pm

They pulled Garcia from the game. I would not be surprised if he had a concussion.

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120 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:44pm

Saints trying to run up yards to try to get Brees the yardage record.

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124 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 4:59pm

There goes the shutout in Foxboro on the longest pass in Leinart or Fitzgerald's careers

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125 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:01pm

The Steelers put the "Terrible" in Terrible Towel.

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126 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jake // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:06pm

Some should let Herm know why you play the game

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128 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:24pm

If the first drive is any indication, the Vikings really miss Pat Williams. The Falcons are rushing for 5-6 yards a clip, and are deep in Viking territory...

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129 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:26pm

Falcons just waltz down the field. I think they had one third down, but no big plays. Vikings seem to have no energy at all right now, and Falcons offensive line dominated them. I think they missed Pat Williams, but the way they were playing not sure he would have made that much difference.

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130 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:29pm

sigh, Vikings just sleepwalking. After the touchdown, Chester Tayor fumbles the opening kickoff in his own end zone, picks it up and decides to run it out. He doesn't make it to the ten.

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132 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:36pm

Man, Adrian is good. Vikings have life thanks to their offense.

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133 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:39pm

Visanthe Shiancoe, Comeback Player of the Year (around here anyways)?

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136 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:43pm

He is worthy of mention, but I'd think he'd be behind several others... Cadillac Williams or Antonio Bryant of the Bucs, heck even Kerry Collins...

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175 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Bowl Game Anomaly // Dec 21, 2008 - 11:57pm

Warrick Dunn.

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

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134 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:39pm

Vikings answer with a nice touchdown drive. Could be some good football. Neither offense had trouble moving ball so far.

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135 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:41pm

Every kickoff I wonder when the #32 ranked special teams dvoa will bite the vikings. A 40 yard return and I'm breathing a sigh of relief...

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137 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:47pm

I hate callling things like that. Special teams indeed.

Vikings force 3 and out, but promptly fumble the ensuing punt. Falcons in business at the Vikings 22.

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138 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Crus // Dec 21, 2008 - 5:54pm

Jim Zorn not doing himself any favours, goes for a 54yd FG into the wind instead of a 4th and 6 at the Eagles 36, comes up short and Demps runs it back almost to midfield.

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140 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Crus // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:00pm

and the Eagles response provides a direct comparison as Andy Reid punts from the Wash 36 instead of attempt a 4th and 4 or a 54yd FG with the wind. I shade towards that being the right call, the opponent as already missed a FG against the Eagles so Andy was probably expecting any 50+yd FG attempt to be blocked and returned for a TD, knowing how STs luck goes this season.

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139 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:00pm

Adrian Peterson for MVP. I've finally decided.

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141 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:01pm

I guess I spoke too soon.

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142 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:03pm

Vikings drive down inside the red zone and All Day fumbles it to the Falcons.

His fumbles are getting to be a real problem for him.

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143 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:07pm

I am more and more impressed with Matt Ryan as I watch this game. Under a ton of pressure he keeps delivering the ball right on target, keeps chains moving.

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144 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:11pm

Bad Eagles D rears its ugly head again. No pressure, can't get there on the blitz, can't make plays behind the blitz and can't get off the field on 3rd down.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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145 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Crus // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:12pm

also can't win at volleyball in the endzone.

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147 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:18pm

All Fumbles All Day.

Vikings offense has actually not been stopped by anything other then fumbles. The falcons have recovered all three.

This one was kind of a broken play, not sure he entirely had the hand off. But the end result is the same.

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149 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:29pm

Vikings fortunate to be down by only 10 after handing the ball to the Falcons three times.

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153 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:39pm

The Eagles have been outplayed on both sides of the ball for 30 minutes, yet they're only down 3 at the half. This is a victory in some ways.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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155 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:52pm

Tarvaris has played incredibly well, minus that fumble.

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156 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Nick // Dec 21, 2008 - 6:54pm

Andre Johnson without a catch during first half... I can't watch the game, but I'm assuming that Asomugha is shutting him down completely after his 200 yard week...

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157 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 7:23pm

Apparently Bad Eagles Offense decided to return today. Either that, or Washington picked today to get all fired up again on their season. Ay carumba this has been an ugly game...was watching at a sports bar with friends for a while, but it was too depressing so I came home.

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160 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Crus // Dec 21, 2008 - 7:46pm

McNabb seems to have regressed to Mr Inaccurate, not sure if it's because his favoured receivers aren't out there as often with the injuries (though why he seems to think everyone but DeSean and Curtis are 1ft tall I have no idea) but he picked a bad time to start throwing behind and low to people.

Maybe it's a result of the pressure the OL has been giving up and his footwork has gone flighty.

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158 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 7:27pm

Nnamdi is a beast.

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159 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by PatsFan // Dec 21, 2008 - 7:39pm

Come on Seattle. Don't pull a Buffalo. Three dives into the line
and a figgie to sink the Jets, please...

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161 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by PatsFan // Dec 21, 2008 - 7:46pm

Annnnnnnnd the patented Favre game-losing INT.

Thank you, thank you very much.

Of course, now I have to turn around and root for the all-but-eliminated Jets to beat Miami next week.

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162 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Jason Robar // Dec 21, 2008 - 7:58pm

So Dick Jauron, master of the bad challenge call, doesn't challenge the call where even Brandon Marshall is calling to get a play off quickly, and his own sideline is yelling it was a juggle.

Good thing Jay Cutler is doing his best to give the game back.

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163 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Shane S. // Dec 21, 2008 - 8:04pm

Ok, I get how there wasn't a flag for a horsecollar on the guy who tackled matt ryan on the second down bootleg...but seriously, that's not a more dangerous tackle than a horsecollar?

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165 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Crus // Dec 21, 2008 - 8:24pm

Reggie Brown comes up short of the goalline (way to prove your critics wrong Reggie!) as time expires, Redskins win.

Eagles pass the ball 74% of the time (including scrambles as runs), the receivers go back to dropping balls, the OL has to passblock almost the entire 2nd half and starts to give up pressure on a consistent basis = tough loss.

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166 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 21, 2008 - 9:05pm

As much as it pains me to admit, the Eagles deserved to lose this game. The Eagles D played well, by and large, but the offense was horrible. Grrrr.

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168 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Harris // Dec 21, 2008 - 9:57pm

Best of all, we get another week of speculation about the futures of Reid and McNabb. Yayyy! I hope they keep McNabb and dump Reid. Likely both will return, but I have to think passing 74% of the time on a windy night in a seven point game will cause Jeff Lurie to rethink Reid's employment status.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

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188 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by CathyW // Dec 22, 2008 - 1:16am

You mean it's not a good idea to pass so much on a windy cold night in December? Who'da thunk it?

And I have to say that Asante Samuel has not delivered the way he was billed to deliver at the start of the season. If he catches that interception instead of dropping it, we'd probably be talking about an Eagles W right now.

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169 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Yaguar // Dec 21, 2008 - 9:59pm

Warner is out as an MVP. MVPs don't get benched after an 6/18 for 30 yard effort. Especially not when they have the best WRs in the league, and they're playing a weak pass defense.

Manning or Brees, period.

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170 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by randplaty // Dec 21, 2008 - 10:06pm

San Diego beats a very good TB team in TB. What are the chances of that? Denver loses to a poor Bills team in Denver. What are the chances of that? What are the chances of both happening?

Showdown for the AFC West Championship next week in San Diego.

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171 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 10:53pm

Halftime, Giants down 21-13. And Kevin Gilbride is a moron. 3rd and one, he calls Madison Hedgecock's number. Beautiful. 3rd and 12 he calls a swing pass behind the LOS to Bradshaw. Awesome. Al Davis, I will forgive everything if you take this guy off our hands.

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172 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 11:02pm

Also, observations from he first half:

The Panthers O-line is really, really good. Although Tuck is in and out of the game (flu), so that's hurting the Giants pass rush. D Wlliams is really good too. Biggest play of the game so far: a dead duck Delhomme tossed up that slipped through Ross's hands into M. Muhammed's for a huge gain setting up first and goal. Also: the refs have swallowed their whistles completely - letting them play indeed!

You can see why the Giants offense missed Jacobs. He's a total beast. I think these last few weeks have made it clear who the Giants' priority will be in the offseason.

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173 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 21, 2008 - 11:24pm

HELL of a drive by Eli and the Giants to pull within 1 (they don't go for the tying 2 pt conversion. Starting from their own 15, worked the run and the pass, spreading the ball around, ate up like 9 minutes of the clock and ate up the 3rd Q (with the bad wind). Very good sign. They looked like the team from the first 12 weeks there.

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174 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 21, 2008 - 11:52pm

If Ed Hoculi is not the ref in the DEN/SD game, I will be VERY disappointed.

Eagles and Cowboys both in control of their own destiny. I kinda wish the Eagles had won today though, because Dallas never seems to play well when they're slated in a Playoff spot. It takes a "you're out right now so you better win" moment to get them to show up. We'll see what happens next week. All I know is, there is no way I'm not at my lucky "Dallas is 5-0 this season in this spot" spot come Sunday. Gonna be a great game. I think whoever gets in beats the Cardinals/Vikings.

Giants better win tonight. They must show the world that the NFC East > NFC South. NFC East is currently undefeated against the NFC South this season (Cowboys beat the Bucs, Redskins beat the Saints, and Eagles beat the Falcons).

Anyone ready to throw the Bucs under the bus for their December play? Or is that just saved for the Cowboys?

Peyton or Philip Rivers for MVP. I really feel like Rivers is quite possibly the most underrated QB out there this year. Sure, the Chargers are no stallion of a team this season, but they have their playoff fates in their own hands after battling back. If the Chargers win next week, I would not have any gripes about a Rivers MVP. Peyton is the only other choice though, and I know that he'll get it way before Rivers would.

Oakland: Most inconsistent team in the league?

Furthermore, JaMarcus Russell: Most inconsistently player in the league?

The death of the Tennessee Titans was greatly exaggerated.

Mike Singletary should definitely be the coach of the 2009 49ers.

Miami has a good record, but they sure seem to be in a lot of nail-biters with bad teams. I guess we'll see if they're somewhat legit next week. If they are, then we'll see if they're REALLY legit the next week after that.

Next week is shaping up to be a VERY exciting week of football.

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178 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Eddo // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:05am

The Eagles are most definitely not in control of their own destiny; they need a Tampa Bay loss and a Chicago loss in addition to beating the Cowboys.

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180 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:22am

My bad.

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176 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:02am

Another great drive by the Giants, capped off by a BEUATIFUL play fake to Jacobs, and hook up with Hixon in the end zone for the 2 point conversion. Tie game, with about 3 and a half to play. Now the defense needs to hold. It would help if our kickoff team didn't give them the ball on the 35 automatically.

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177 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:03am

And the Panthers bring it out to the 38. It's freaking automatic at this point.

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179 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:06am

And one play later they're across midfield. Arrgh. 2 minute warning.

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181 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:24am

Gilbride strikes again. First series i OT: Ward runs OT for 6. Then to INC into the wind (overthrows by Eli). They can't stop the run, you fool!

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182 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by markschepp23 // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:28am

Giants get the ball back and break a run for 51 into Panther territory. SEE!

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183 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Key19 // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:36am

NFC East now 4-0 against NFC South. End of discussion.

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184 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by morganja // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:48am

Fox and his staff were just terrible in this game. I cannot believe the play calling on both offense and defense. They deserved to lose after putting their team in such terrible situations. The Panther coaching staff just flat out cannot coach with a lead against a good team. They call so many low percentage plays on offense. And so many idiotic plays on defense. Good god almighty, stop run blitzing! It doesn't work for this team. Just stop.

This is a team that could go a lot further in the playoffs if their coaching staff did a little more cocaine. I mean they played the entire second half and into overtime not to lose.

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185 Re: Key19

by morganja // Dec 22, 2008 - 12:55am

All home games for the NFC. Makes a huge difference, especially apparently when it comes to pass interference calls in the endzone with the game on the line.

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189 Re: Key19

by bob // Dec 22, 2008 - 2:17am

fwaaa? The Panthers DB absolutely mugged the WR and they already had 1st and goal at the 5 anyway. Not a questionable call at all.

I wonder if the FO staff will make any smug comments about the Eagles this week like they did when the Eagles do well. Somehow I doubt it.

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191 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by morganja // Dec 22, 2008 - 4:07am

Actually, he didn't. I watched it several times in HD and it was nothing worse than anything else they didn't call all night. Why pick that moment to suddenly get touchy about pass interference?

Absolutely mugged? What the hell were you watching? If anything, it should have been offensive pass interference. Definitely a home team call. There were about ten calls that they could have made that were much worse than that and weren't called.

I prefer that pass interference is never called unless it is blatant. I mean blatant for real. Not the 'absolute mugging' that you thought you saw. One that a rational person would see.

But whatever.

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192 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Charles // Dec 22, 2008 - 6:01am

That was obvious PI on the Panthers, and was the only one they called all night despite Carolina doing most of the game.

Try again.

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193 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 22, 2008 - 9:28pm

I'm disappointed in the Vikings, though cautiously hopeful they can prevail next week when they have to.

I'm not expecting anything from the Packers. However, if the Bears and Vikings roles were reversed, and the Vikings needed to beat an also-ran packer team to stay alive... I'd be worried.

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194 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 22, 2008 - 10:23pm

Brad Meynard is the Bears' MVP so far tonight.

A 57 yard punt with a return brought back by a hold...
a near turnover near 1 yard pin...
and a line drive punt that goes out of bounds at the 9.

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195 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Anonymous (not verified) // Dec 22, 2008 - 11:07pm

Can anyone explain why they would throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 10? I mean really, just...why!?

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196 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 23, 2008 - 12:47am

How many lives do the Bears have?

won in overtime last week. Dominated all night tonight, yet on special teams get 10 pts then get one drive to tie, then Packers (again) don't try to advance when in late FG range to win, and then they block the FG.

officials hit Urlacher in the head with the coin, but bears win the toss. Last week the Bears went from no offense in second half to not letting saints touch the ball. Now bears get the ball first in overtime.

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197 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 23, 2008 - 12:50am

Bears get horse collar on first play of overtime. Ball in FG range.

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198 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 23, 2008 - 12:56am

Bears win. They don't deserve it, but with the amount of breaks they got maybe it was meant to be.

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199 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by Joel // Dec 23, 2008 - 12:59am

There is really nothing else that can be said about the Packers at this point. Just unreal.

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200 Re: Week 16 Game Discussion Thread

by andrew // Dec 23, 2008 - 9:07am

This is the second time that the Packers have had the ball late, in position for a game winning score, and they choose to not try to advance their position, the other being at Minnesota when they settled for a 47 yard FG or thereabouts.

This time, 38 yards, I mean, c'mon.

I know its not Rodgers fault. He played very well, I couldn't ask much more of him. He made two bad throws (the one that was deflected and picked by Ogunleye, and the one before their last FG probably should have been picked), mostly made quick throws to beat pressure on time, was accurate, heck, he even hit a long ball (that resulted in a missed FG). But somehow... he seems to lack that "it". Its not his fault the FG offensive line gets steamrolled (it was so bad, if Alex Brown didn't block it I think the bear behind him would have). Its not his fault the Packers return men can't get out of the way of a punt. But now he's not a winner, supposedly.

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