Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 3 Open Discussion Thread

Sun, Sep 21 Time (ET) Tickets Network DIRECTV DIRECTV HD SIRIUS HOME SIRIUS AWAY Westwood One
KC @ ATL 1:00 PM Tickets CBS 704 704 121 123
OAK @ BUF 1:00 PM Tickets CBS 705 705 130 129
TB @ CHI 1:00 PM Tickets FOX 709 709 122 113
CAR @ MIN 1:00 PM Tickets FOX 711 711 119 140
MIA @ NE 1:00 PM Tickets CBS 707 707 107 127
CIN @ NYG 1:00 PM Tickets CBS 706 706 91 125
HOU @ TEN 1:00 PM Tickets CBS 708 708 152
ARI @ WAS 1:00 PM Tickets FOX 710 710 126 110
NO @ DEN 4:05 PM Tickets FOX 712 712 130 113
DET @ SF 4:05 PM Tickets FOX 713 713 127 144
STL @ SEA 4:05 PM Tickets FOX 714 714 121 126
CLE @ BAL 4:15 PM Tickets CBS 716 716 119 125
JAC @ IND 4:15 PM Tickets CBS 717 717 91 122
PIT @ PHI 4:15 PM Tickets CBS 715 715 123 107
DAL @ GB 8:15 PM Tickets NBC 127 126
Mon, Sep 22 Time (ET) Tickets Network DIRECTV DIRECTV HD SIRIUS HOME SIRIUS AWAY Westwood One
NYJ @ SD 8:30 PM Tickets ESPN 206 73 127 126


by navin :: Tue, 09/16/2008 - 5:32pm

Who's excited about the JT O'Sullivan vs. Jon Kitna showdown?

I know I am.

by joenamath :: Tue, 09/16/2008 - 5:58pm

your new wesite is blocking me from accessing my premium content

by andrew :: Tue, 09/16/2008 - 7:51pm

Can we have separate threads for the early, late, sunday night and monday night games?

by Chris Z :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 8:53pm

I'd like to second this suggestion

by Anonymous (not verified) :: Wed, 09/17/2008 - 12:32pm

Big game for KC! They survived a big game last week... hopefully that can muster up an equally impressive performance and lock up that #1 over all draft pick.

by Dales :: Wed, 09/17/2008 - 6:21pm

Go big BLUE!

That is all.

by Boston Dan :: Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:37am

I haven't looked at any spreads yet, but here are the winners.

New England
Tampa Bay
San Francisco
Green Bay
San Diego

Actually I'm thinking about switching that Houston pick. Just a gut feeling based mostly on the extra week off from game action.

edit: These are my picks, they were not copied from the premium database.

by tally :: Fri, 09/19/2008 - 2:21am

The home team appears to be favored in every game except Dallas @ GB.

by Boston Dan :: Fri, 09/19/2008 - 6:45am

Oddsmakers had GB all wrong at the beginning last season and they're doing it again this season. Although I'm not sure how this lines up with them attempting to equalize betting on both sides

by docnutz :: Fri, 09/19/2008 - 11:03am

I like your picks except indi and seatle, seatle gives up 9.5! i believe!

If you think there is some good in everybody, you obviously haven't met "everybody"

by Rillbizi (not verified) :: Thu, 09/18/2008 - 10:06pm


I was reviewing some previous articles about stats and I felt that there was a glowing ommission. What about penalties. I would like to see whether it be on offense or defense that stats are kept on penalties assessed and possibly a subset of those that were turned down. For instance:

Each player should have listed (depending on position of course) all the penalties that were assessed on him. For the OL like false starts, holding, personal fouls, etc., just like the running backs are given credit for att, yds, tds, fumbles etc. Also the amount of yards assessed for each penalty.

Also on both sides of the ball things like dropped passes (that were not really defensed) or sure interceptions that were "in and out" of the hands of the defenders.

I tried doing the penalties myself but because I am not the "official stat" person my numbers never agreed with the official numbers so I just stopped.

Should this be done it aught to be "published" no less than at the end of each quarter of the season or eaven a weekly listing like the other "accountable stats are.


by johnnyxel :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 12:21am

Evaluating penalties should be trivial. They are recorded in the play-by-play game logs available on NFL.com. On a line like this (for dead ball fouls):

2-2-DET 24 (12:52) PENALTY on DET-66-S.Peterman, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DET 24 - No Play.

or like this (for a penalty during a play):
1-10-DET 39 (3:56) 33-M.Turner left end to DET 10 for 29 yards (42-G.Alexander, 26-D.Smith). PENALTY on DET-26-D.Smith, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at DET 10

It couldn't get more official than that.

Dropped passes and interceptions are not "official" stats, so those compiled by you, FO, Stats Inc, and Joe Thiesmann's Mom may not agree with each other, because there is ambiguity in the definition of "drop."

by Rory Hickey :: Thu, 09/18/2008 - 10:37pm

A lot of interesting games on tap for Week 3:

Carolina @ Minnesota:
-Can Gus Frerotte turn the Vikings' longship around? I think Viking fans know the answer to this. I also think the Redskins, Lions, Broncos, Bengals, Dolphins and Rams fans know as well.

New Orleans @ Denver:
-Can the Fighting Ed Hochulis get off to a 3-0 start or will the Saints go into Mile High and steal one?

Pittsburgh @ Philadelphia:
-The marquee game of the week could be in the Keystone State as Big Ben and company travel to the Linc. Here's hoping that DeSean Jackson doesn't make another blunder like the one on Monday Night in front of the Philly fans, if only for his safety.

Dallas @ Green Bay:
-John Madden's first Favre-less Packer game in a while will feature Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo in what looks like it will be a great game. How will the Packers' defense slow down TO and Marion Barber? Will Dallas' defense show up during the first three quarters of the game?

by CathyW :: Sat, 09/20/2008 - 10:39pm

Hear, hear on the Clash for the Commonwealth!

In all seriousness, if DeSean Jackson makes a dumb mistake like that at the Linc, I wouldn't be surprised if the fans come after him with pitchforks and torches. He's still in his honeymoon period, but I think the honeymoon is just about over.

by Josh :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:42am

but I think the honeymoon is just about over.

So we can expect a DeSean Jackson sex tape to be released over the internets in the upcoming week?

by shake n bake :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:34am

Anybody else watching ESPN and see the MNF crew sitting around in street clothes talking about the game. AWKWARD. It looked so forced, these are not 3 friends sitting around talking about the game no matter how hard you pretend.

by Mike Kurtz :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 12:33pm

Everyone is welcome to grab an IRC client and go where Barnwell fears to tread.

(server cognet.catch22.org, channel #FO)

by shake n bake :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 12:50pm

If I'm on a mac am I just out of luck on that?

by Mike Kurtz :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 12:57pm

Nope! The easiest way is to get the ChatZilla add-on for Firefox, if you use that.

If not, X-Chat Aqua is a nice browser for OS X. All you have to do is start it up, then in the prompt go:

/server cognet.catch22.org
/join #FO


by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:12pm

What an odd start to the day. Sit at the local pub, set up my laptop, get the local TV news come over to interview me on the fact that Budweiser is raising their prices.

Guess I must look like an expert or something.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:14pm

Lovely. Looks like the stupid quotient is going to be extra-high on the field for the Bucs-Bears game. Lots of pushing and shoving, already one 15-yarder for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Is it too much to ask that, if the Bucs spent a 2nd-round pick on Dexter Jackson, that he be able to stay on his feet during a return and not fall down every time?

by BucNasty :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:14pm

I love seeing Ronde get a sack.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:15pm

Giants pass rush is just abusing the Bengals at the start of the game.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:17pm

First three drives of HOU@TEN produce no completions, a net -12 offensive yards, and an interception which leads to a Houston field goal. The Titans D-line is dominating Houston's OL, to no-one's great surprise. Andre Johnson could have had a touchdown if he'd brought in a difficult catch in the corner of the endzone.

2 successive first downs for the Titans, and the Texans seem unable to stop them on the ground.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:19pm

Collins looking good, since that horrible interception. Picking on Jacques Reeves. If the Steelers game wasn't enough confirmation, the Texans defense still sucks.

by Anonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:20pm

Terrible call in the Pats/Fins game. Now all a defender has to do is grab the QB without bringing him down, and it's a sack?

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:21pm

Uh oh. Inaccurate Eli looks to be in New York today-- what an awful miss on third and two.

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:23pm

Son of an Alstott, Lendale White vultures another TD.


by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:25pm

2nd and 10 on the 11, Crumpler apparently drops a touchdown. He insists he caught it. Titans penalised on the play for illegal motion, Texans decline. Fisher asks if the Texans can change their decision to decline the penalty if the play is reviewed and ruled a catch, and is told they can. Totally makes sense that that should be the rule, but I had never (as far as I can remember) seen that situation before.

Titans score on fourth down from the 2 via White, after Johnson picks up good YAC on 3rd.

by DaveInTucson :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:27pm

OK, I'm already tired of that "I'm a PC" commercial.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:27pm

Not sure why Kubiak's challenging that. Griffin clearly had possession before he slid out of bounds.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:29pm

It is worse than just having inaccurate Eli. The return of the undisciplined, silly Giants is upon us. May God have mercy on us all.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:32pm

8 minutes in in Atlanta, and NFL.com tells me that Tyler Thigpen is 0-5, Larry Johnson 3-7 and Matt Ryan 1-4 for 4. Glad I'm not watching that game.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:47pm

It is on right in front of me-- it's actually been some decent defensive play. Thigpen does look over his head right now. Touchdown, Falcons. Turner.

ETA later-- and now a nice 70 yd TD to White. Ryan looks pretty good to me.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:34pm

Warrick Dunn sharing the field with Jerramy Stevens and Antonio Bryant. One of the best people to ever play the game (in terms of off-the-field contributions) along with two absolute head cases.

Also, TD Ike Hilliard!

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:36pm

Slaton breaks a 51 yard gain after breaking a tackle behind the line of scrimmage and is horse collared. That's good for about 70 more offensive yards than the Texans have managed on every other play combined.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:38pm

And Schaub drops the ball on the snap, losing 3 yards on 1st and goal. That's all on him, not the centre. QB controversy coming in Houston . . .

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:41pm

Vanden Bosch is, unsurprisingly, killing Duane Brown. Rosenfels is not as accurate a passer as Schaub, but his pocket presence is better and against the murderers' row of pass rushes that Houston face to open the season, with a particularly raw rookie starting at left tackle, he might well be the better option.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:46pm

And now a Plax drop 15 yards down field with some open turf in front of him. I am starting to get a bad feeling about this...

ETA: It's a trap!

Looks like the Giants get a first down on some PI...

ETAA: And a long 1st down to the big Boss man! Woot!

ETAAA: And then another pass to Boss, his first two of the year, followed by a Jacobs TD! Giants lead! So does my fantasy team! Life is good!

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:44pm

I'm not watching that game, but Eli's numbers don't look bad thus far. Is he throwing to 9-foot-tall receivers like he used to?


by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:54pm

I may have overreated on the Inaccurate Eli comment. On 3rd and 2, 1st drive, he threw about 5 yards behind Plax on a crossing route. Really, really bad. And the two passes before that were complete but easy checkdowns not thrown particularly well.

He's looked better since.

by BucNasty :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:48pm

Hot potato pick by Barrett Ruud in the end zone. We'll be seeing that one tomorrow.

by Rocco :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:55pm

Miami is up 14-3 on New England. The Pats may have to let Cassel try to make some plays here.

by Rocco :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:55pm

Miami is up 14-3 on New England. The Pats may have to let Cassel try to make some plays here.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:56pm

Bengals touchdown. They are getting good yards on the ground, which is troubling.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:56pm

Dear Santa,
For Christmas I would like

Some outside linebackers who can tackle
A safety who can cover
A complementary pass-rusher
Something resembling an interior offensive line
Never to see CC fricking Brown take the field in a Texans uniform again. Ever. I'm serious. None of this "good boy" bollocks. Make it happen or Rudolph is venison, you fat old cola-pusher.

Love from Mr Shush

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:58pm

Ok, if Andre Johnson has lost the ability to catch the ball there is actually no hope left.

by JasonK :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 1:59pm

Bengals offense not looking all that bad. The pass blocking isn't particularly good, but they're successfully picking on Giants' nickel corner, Kevin Dockery, and the running game is catching the Giants' linemen and blitzers getting too far upfield.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:10pm

Yep. All of what you say is pretty accurate. During the first Bengal drive, they could not protect Palmer, but since then they have managed to exploit the aggressiveness quite well.

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:05pm

C'mon fade to Plax.


by BucNasty :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:06pm

Great pass by Orton, right into the hands of Gaines Adams. Looks like a touchdown to me.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:07pm

Thigpen, who I did draft in the last round of my dynasty (all keeper) league, might be the worst prepared quarterback I have ever seen. This is truly embarrassing.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:12pm

Tyler Thigpen is going to be like Priest Holmes in the early part of the decade, except for the Loser League. He's bringing new levels of bad to the QB position.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:07pm

Slaton gets his first NFL touchdown, flattening the first tackler en route. Kid looks good.

And Matt Turk fumbles the snap on the PAT, and sidearms a pick to Vanden Bosch while falling over. Ye Gods.

by Jackson (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:10pm

Why doesn't any one else in football do the Charles Tillman football punch?

It seems like a teachable skill, but even other players on the Bears don't do it.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:10pm

Sack, Gmen!

by Anonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:11pm

someone please explain how and why Herm Edwards still has a job

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:12pm

Wow. Thigpen is truly putting up a loser league performance for the ages. 2-13 for 12 yards and 2 picks through one and a half quarters. Boggling.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:15pm

As I said above, it is every bit as bad as it looks. Bad decisions coupled with slightly inaccurate passes (so that they are right to the defender who is near the WR) without anything at all to offset it.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:17pm

Why the hell did Kubiak not challenge that? McCarreins was clearly out of bounds when he caught that 30 yarder on the 3. He also pushed off - horrible decisions by the officials, horrible decision by Kubiak, and White has the touchdown.

Edit: And for added fun, replay suggests White didn't actually break the plane on third down. No challenge there either.

by Rocco :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:17pm

21-6 Dolphins, another TD for Ronnie Brown out of the Wildcat offense. Can we make a "this formation works because Belichick doesn't have tape of it" joke here? :)

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:18pm

I haven't been doing much laughing this game so give it a try.

by Rocco :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:20pm

Even worse- Joey Porter just beat Kazcur like a rented mule for a sack.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:24pm

At least when Jason Taylor used to mess up the Pats it was a guy I respected

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:18pm

So maybe this wasn't the week to play the NE defense?


by BucNasty :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:18pm

That was embarrassing. Whoever that was is fast as hell. I can't believe he didn't score.

by Jackson (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:21pm

That's Garrett Wolf (25), formerly of Northern Illinois.

He's like Warrick Dunn if Warrick Dunn didn't know how to run between the tackles.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:21pm

Another Giants sack, but barring a chip-shot Figgie miss, the Bengals will have the halftime lead. Even game so far, which is a disappointment, but at least we don't look horrible.

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:22pm

Seabass saves a touchdown. He took a better angle than the average linebacker. Kind of amazing, actually.


by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:23pm

Great play by Antwaan Molden to prevent the touchback, leaping to claw the ball back from behind his head.

by Telamon :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:33pm

When I read this comment, I momentarily thought you were Raiderjoe mangling the name Anquan Boldin, but since I'm watching the Skins-Cards game, I figured it out pretty quick.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:30pm

Wow, this is awesome. Awesomely bad. I can't turn away from the KC-Atlanta game when the Chiefs are on offense. I can't believe they're letting this guy play. He actually looks OK when he throws on the move, but, standing in the pocket, he has maybe the worst mechanics I've ever seen.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:32pm

But the last play is a good example of why, even on the move, it isn't that great. He throws, on the move and falling back, an accurate pass into a very tight window, where if the pass is off by even the slightest bit it could be picked.

All for a 1 yard gain. Horrible decision making.

ETA-- followed by a TD strike. Way to make me look dumb!

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:33pm

And then he throws a TD to Bowe right after that . . .

by PhillLeeds (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:40pm

If you're on about Thigpen, you have to bear in mind that he is the QB who wasn't even good enough to make it on to the Vikings depth chart...

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:37pm

The Chin says NE is losing because of a lack of spunk and swagger. Perhaps NE needs more bath houses, which is a sure cure for a lack of spunk, if not swagger.


by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:45pm

Somewhere a Ford is thinking that's the sort of thinking we need to turn this thing around, where's my checkbook.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:38pm

The Dolphins have actually used the Wildcat formation more than once. It looks effective! Who knew that gimmick might actually work against real NFL defenses?

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:40pm

No True Scotsman! ;)

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:48pm

Eli zips a nice pass to Hands of Earth Jacobs with predictable results.

ETA- followed by an awful pass while getting hit. Giants O is off today.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:52pm

Giants show all-out blitz way before the snap. No adjustment by the Bengals. Result- 7 yard sack.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:55pm

There go those damn Dolphins running up the score again!

by Cegal25 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:55pm

I am new to FO and am wondering if there is anywhere on the site that projects the scores for the games for the week. Any input would help...Thanks everyone.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:57pm

Watching Cin v NY Giants before the "Clash for the Commonwealth"...why would you call a running play on 3rd and 25?

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 2:58pm

Kubiak not showing much faith in Schaub on the first drive of the second half: three straight Slaton runs, concluding with a pitch for no gain on third and four.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:00pm

Ah, Brian Griese. You're still . . . Brian Griese. Throwing off your back foot isn't exactly going to help your already-questionable accuracy.

by Purds :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:03pm

As a Colt fan living in New England, I am enjoying the moment. Randy Moss playing like the front-runner he is -- alligator arms on a pass across the middle; Rodney Harrison taking a cheap shot at a running back being tackled by a teammate and instead hitting Bruschi in the knees; the home crowd booing at every chance when they are not stunned; Bellicheck's defense going 0-3 in defending the RB direct snap. Fun while it lasts. I expect the Pats to win eventually, but this is fun while it lasts.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:16pm

I think your safe for this week.

by cd6 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:04pm

Go steelers.
Sorry Philly fans, but be prepared for a losing record.

Also, allow me to be first to say: LOL PATRIOTS OMG haha.

by navin :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:14pm

I understand the issues with New England's offense, but how do you let the Dolphins score 28 points on you?

Also, KC is proving to be the worst team in the NFL.

by Purds :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:21pm

Points given up by NE is a good example of how al the pieces need to fit together for a team. One of Brady's best traits (and I say this from a Manning-loving perspective) is his ability to get his team a very quick early score. Early scores make life easier on the defense.

I'm not saying NE's defense is doing well, but just suggesting that NE's greatness has been a combination of reasons, not just a stellar defense.

by navin :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:24pm

Being up a lot does make the opposing offense one-dimensional, and thus less effective. I never even thought that NE had a great defense lately, but 35 points to the dolphins is just horrendous.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:08pm

Ward with a nice run-- he's had significantly better success than Jacobs today. He seems to go through tight seems better.

ETA-- Carney for the tie! Woot!

by Rocco :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:16pm

It's amazing to see the Pats have zero answer for the Wildcat offense and Ronnie Brown. I wonder if the Dolphins will call off the dogs at any point.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:19pm

I hope not, gotta learn what they can for the next meeting now.

I would give the rookie a series now.

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:21pm

Hello no they won't. Are you kidding?


by Rocco :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:26pm

Yes, absolutely.

by Purds :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:17pm

Can't blame Vrabel there. Seemed like a block that if not intended to injure, had a good chance of causing injury. And, it's an unnecessary block considering that the runer was long gone.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:21pm

Rusher F**KING McFumbles

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:26pm


by johnnyxel :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 12:10am

Because I drafted Garcia in my Fantasy League and Jon Gruden lost to me in week one.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:27pm

Wow, except for the kicking game the Patriots have sucked incredibly today.
I think they are already mentally on their bye week vacation.
I wonder who will the quarterback 2 weeks from now?
Brady got beat bad in his game two but I don't remember much about that, it was just the eighty billionth time the Broncos beat the Pats in those days.
It wasn't losing to a 12 point dog.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:28pm

And the fins ABSOLUTELY should pour it on in this game. After last year's "matchups", they need to extract their pound of flesh (or blubber, they are cetaceans, after all) wherever they can.

I think that RBrown's DVOA (and DYAR, despite sharing the gig) will be "high" for this game. A number of first downs, 4 rushing TDs (all of them longer than a "plunge") and a 19 yard passing TD on his only attempt. No TOs. It's really nice to see him something approximating "back".


by milo :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:38pm

The box score for fins-pats is a beautiful thing. Even pats fans have to admire the quality of their suck.

by Rocco :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:29pm

Cassel gets the same benefit of the doubt on roughing calls that Brady gets.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:31pm

Terrible, Hochuli-worthy roughing penalty on Vonnie Holliday. Cassel still had the ball when Holliday hit him. "Driving the QB into the ground"? Get a QB who does not fall down flopping like a fish, how about? It called back a Hill pick and gave NE some punting safety. Ugh.

by BucNasty :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:47pm

I don't remember if it was Hochuli or not, but the refs gifted the Bucs the same way in 2006 when the Bengals drove Bruce Gradkowski into the ground. He explained that the call was really unnecassary roughness, but he called it roughing the passer because the fans can more easily understand it.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:36pm

By the way, am I crazy or is Devone Bess at least 3 times the offensive player that Tedd Ginnnn, Jrrrrr. is ?

Fins go over 200 yards on the day on the ground. Brown is around 120 and Sticky Ricky just hit about 90.

How I wish I was sitting in my brother-in-law's seats in Gillette right about now...


by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:37pm

Bah. Bengals 1st down into Giants territory. They are picking up the blitz much better now. And then a flea-flicker for 10. Arrgh!

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:41pm

Slaton is really, really impressing today. It's not so much the shiftiness - that's expected - it's the ability to bull through tacklers and move the pile.

Inexplicable back to back passes on second and goal from the 2, when they're clearly intent on going for it on fourth, and both Taylor and Slaton have been effective at getting hard yards today.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:43pm

The Giants have the lead, but the Bengals have outplayed them today. They are getting more consistent rushing yards, making fewer penalties, and are threatening more often. The Giants have had a few nice long drives, but right now I am very worried.

ETA- Bengals touchdown on a wide open post to Housyourdaddy. 4 1/2 to go, Bengals by 4. I am even more worried than before.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:42pm

Hello QB controversy.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:43pm

And that's two straight drives turned over on downs in the redzone. Why didn't they run on second and/or third?

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:47pm

Giants moving. Great run by Ward, who has looked *much* better than Jacobs today, followed by a strike to Toomer. Down to the Cin 35.

by Telamon :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:01pm

I went to the ESPN scores page and the QB they have listed as "Top Performer" is Kyle Orton.

*Looks out window to check for ominous flying horsemen*

EDIT: He's now been replaced by Brian Griese, which is less disconcerting, but I just noticed that Brandon Lloyd leads the game with 100 yards receiving. Wacky.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:48pm

Eli is NOT accurate today. Should have stayed with my first impression.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:52pm

Not that it makes much odds, because that's pretty much the game anyway, but Griffin just cost his team 24 yards by picking off a pass on 4th down instead of batting it.

by mikeabbott :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:53pm

Soprano gets Splashed.
Gatorade bath for a 1 and 2 record? harummphs this disappointed pats fan.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 3:54pm

3rd and goal, Giants. Eli to the BIG BOSS MAN TOUCHDOWN BIG BLUE! WOOOT!

by morganja :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:00pm

The refs totally screwed this game. I'm not sure whether it was a deliberate attempt to give the home team the victory or just incredibly, amazingly poor officiating, but the game was unwatchable in the second half as the officials did everything they could to ruin the game.

It sucks to see a game consistently poorly called. I wish the NFL would just put out an announcement telling us not to bother watching the game.

They really need to consider sorting out their reffing problem. This game was just a waste of time.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:02pm

Giants drop a pick. Bengals almost in figgie range.

ETA- False start, 51 seconds. 1st and 15 from the 40.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:04pm

1st and goal Bengals, 4 seconds. They will try for the tying figgie...

by Androo :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:06pm

And somewhere, Shanahan and his giant balls laugh at Marvin Lewis. An illustration of the difference in job security?

by Telamon :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:05pm

Penalty as time expires give Orton a potential hail mary op., but they don't take it. LAME!

Free Neckbeard!

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:13pm

Damn. Giants have to punt after a bad Eli throw on 2nd down would have given them great field position and first down.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:19pm

Come on Giants, end this!

ETA- Toomer open deep, Eli misses. Then hits Plax on a nice long gain. First down, BIG BLUE!

ETAA-- bad throw on 1st down. Worse throw on 2nd down. 3rd and 10.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:20pm


by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:22pm

Gah, the Cretin is calling Eagles-Steelers!

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:23pm

The Giants win a game where we were outplayed, although not badly. ****WHEW!!!****

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:24pm

Ooooh, Tony Hunt down. Bad collision.

Oh, and damn, the Giants won.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:28pm

Shit, Eagles fumble.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:30pm

And now they jump off-sides.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:38pm

I have a really bad feeling about this game. The Eagles have had a bad case of fumble-itis lately.

by andrew :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:42pm

As someone who was pulling against them, let me say the Bears were royally screwed. After stopping the Bucs deep in their own territory (inside the 20) in overtime on 3rd down, after the play was over a Buc started a fight with a Bear, Charles Tillman came in late into the fight and got a 15 yard personal foul for it, which kept the drive alive that ended in the winning FG.

by BucNasty :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:53pm

I'll take it.

by jurb :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:55pm

...and they would have gotten the ball back at mid-field with an excellent chance to win the game. Still, Tillman has got to know better. Just incredibly stupid.

by tuluse :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:02pm

It's easy to say this, but the Buc's lineman (Trueblood, I think) was holding Ogunleye down and had him in a headlock. It's pretty tough not to react to that, especially with all the adrenaline in your system from playing a football game.

by Stereochemistry (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:36pm

Re: Personal Foul - Trueblood has already had a couple of 15 yard penalities called on him for coming to the defense of a teammate, so I find it hard to feel guilty as a fan when the call finally goes the other way.

Plus, the call on Tillman was for throwing a player to the ground behind the pile, not him running into the pile late.

by TomC :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:50pm

Bullsh*t, bullsh*t, bullsh*t. The Bears still had chances to win the game and should have, but that call was absolute 100% grade-A bullsh*t. The only way a ref could ever justify making that call would be early in the game, trying to send some sort of lame message. But not in OT, for Christ Almighty's sake. Bullsh*t.

by Jimmy :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:25pm

I was pretty pissed off by the call.

If the officials had been doing their jobs properly they would have blown whistles, thrown flags and tried to break the players up. They were doing squat so the Bears players start to wade in and get penalised. I don't blame any of the Bears players one bit, I wouldn't let a player beat on a team mate of mine like Trueblood did in any sport and just stand back and watch.

The Bears got screwed there by the officials not keeping their eyes open.

Having said that they should have put the game away earlier. The Bears hardly put their early turnovers to good use. A good defense and spotty (at best) offense may well make for a frustrating season.

by Zzyzx (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:44pm

That Julius Jones TD was a thing of beauty. He was completely bottled up, ran over a defender and broke outside and scored before the Rams realized the play was still going on.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:49pm

Crap, McNabb shaken up on the failed flea-flicker. Now Westbrook limping. Ugh.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:50pm

McNabb looks ok but Westy still out.

by tuluse :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:50pm

I don't understand the Bears this year. They play so well for stretches but can't seem to keep it up. Then the opposing team gets a few big plays, and they lose.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:52pm

Shit, shit, shit. Westbrook heading for the locker room.

by tuluse :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 4:53pm

I haven't seen him play this week, but doesn't it look like Pennington has a lot more velocity on his throws this year?

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:24pm

Watching him today and in week 1 he has looked like Chad Pennington - accurate, intelligent, good touch, hits guys in stride, reads the D, but he is by no means zinging it. He is neither Farve nor even Notfarve. The offense has done a really good job minimizing his exposure - there have been few long balls and no long outs.

by BucNasty :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:09pm

Did the Westbrook injury look serious?

by Crus :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:15pm

re Westbrook injury:
Westbrook got his right ankle trapped under him while trying to avoid standing on a philly lineman as he landed after hurdling him and a steeler player who were on the ground. Westbrook seemed a bit annoyed, threw his gloves away as he went down the tunnel limping slightly. Not sure if that's a good or bad sign.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:16pm

Westbrook walked off the field under his own power, so hopefully not serious.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:21pm

Wow, replay shows a TERRIBLE non-call for pass interference on the Jags' pick-6. Mathis grabbed Harrison's jersey and tugged himself into position for that pick. Doesn't he realize that Marvin's packing chrome? Non-Colts-fan here, but the My Little Ponies got royally jobbed (Hoch'ed?).

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:21pm

Wow, Eagles defense has had a lot of penalties today. Apparently this ref team has decided to enforce the facemask penalty, something the Monday night crew overlooked.

by Trogdor :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:29pm

Phil Simms just correctly pronounced the name "Samuel".

Moments after Roethlisberger forces a throw into double coverage deep, McNabb (under pressure) misses an open receiver by about ten yards and turns it back over.

by Anonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:32pm

Well, there's really no way they couldn't call THAT facemask? I mean, they practically ripped Roethlisberger's head off ...

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:39pm

Oh, I agree, it was a valid penalty. I just wish the ref crews would be more consistent.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:44pm

I wish we were getting this game. I left the tavern so as not to push it with the Mrs, she's a Steeler fan, and they are showing Indy-Jax in Arkansas. We seem to get the Jags an awful lot here, which confuses me greatly.

by Craigomcl (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:45pm

The right side of the Steelers' line is absolutely stealing their paychecks. Kendall Simmons has watched more blitzers go by than he's actually touched.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 5:59pm

There's an injury to McNabb's chest?????

by Trogdor :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:00pm

Ladies and gentelmen.... Kevin Kolb!!!

by Craigomcl (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:03pm

Between the Steelers not having a line and the Eagles not having a QB, this may be an even game.

by Trogdor :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:04pm

Kolb's first pass... batted up by the DB, and Polamalu makes an amazing play to (possibly) intercept it.

First thoughts on the review - he had possession before the ball hit the ground, should be an INT.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:04pm

Harrison just does NOT get into position anymore, and will NOT fight for a ball. Injuries and age taking their toll?

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:07pm

Ball hit the ground. Reid is challenging.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:09pm

Nice, Kolb. Your first pass as an NFL QB in the regular season is INT. Ugh.

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:12pm

Anybody know what's wrong with McNabb? The announcers on TV haven't given much information.

by Trogdor :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:13pm

Buckhalter has now touched the ball on two consecutive plays without blowing out his knee. A new personal best!

by CathyW :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:16pm

McNabb back in but he's wincing. Doesn't seem to slow down his throws, though.

by indytoad (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:21pm

Wow, the Colts are going to be absolutely terrible this year. I think before the Super Bowl Eli stole all his brother's mojo and hasn't given it back.

by talys :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:22pm

In the third quarter, which just ended, Indy had the ball for ~2 minutes. Now *that's* some ball control by Jax.

by indytoad (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:26pm

Indy would have had it for longer (defense had a very timely interception), but Manning has been forcing balls to Harrison through triple coverage and worse, and it's becoming evident Harrison just isn't up for it anymore.

by talys :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:44pm

Maybe so, but Jax is also putting together a bunch of time-consuming drives. For example, the Colts have had the ball for one play in the fourth quarter -- a punt. There is 2:43 left in the game. The entire quarter has been one long Jax drive.

Edit: The drive ended in a field goal. 2:33 left in the game.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:51pm

Helmet-to-helmet hit BEFORE the ball gets there on Dallas Clark - no flag - and the Colts are probably not going to pull this one out, kids.

Badly ref'd game, at least on 2 specific plays that fly in the face of home-field advantage.

by tuluse :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:33pm

I think it was a clean hit. His helmet ended up hitting Clark's but, he lead with his shoulder. He might have been a split second early, but it was really close, you can't fault the refs for getting that wrong at full speed. I do think pass interference should be challengable.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:54pm

I think that Dungy just pooped watching Manning "slide".

by TomC :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:54pm

I think Mike Tomlin's eyes just came fully out of his head.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:56pm

Wow - 1st and goal at the 3 for the Colts, 1:18 to go, colts down 6. I'm very happy that NASN chose to show this game in France.

by TomC :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:56pm

But forget about intentional grounding; it was a sack.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 6:58pm

Addai TD run at 1:07. Colts should go up by 1 in a couple of moments, but leaving Jax with the time to try to get to short range. But that was a heck of a drive. The Colts should go Pats-style and run in the gun 60% of the time.

by Purds :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:02pm

I can't see the game. What happened on the Colts 4th and 2 when they completed a pass to Harrison?

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:06pm

A perfect Manning Pass...

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:02pm

I did not realize that Del Rio was in the Reid/Herm school of clock mis-management. They have 3 timeouts, yet managed to eat 31 seconds gaining 8 yards on 2 plays. 4th and 1 Jags on their 29.

by CoachDave :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:03pm

If the Colts win this game...they will set the "a 2-1 team who has no business being 2-1 record."

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:04pm

After that 4th and 1 late PI call on an uncatchable ball behind the intended receiver, the Jags drive continues.

by big_adventure :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:08pm

Scobee 51yd FG, and the Jags will go home with a win barring a miracle return.

by talys :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:16pm

What happened to Big Ben?

Edit: Nantz just said a hand injury.

by Spoilt Victoria... :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:17pm

Other than getting hit like 20 times, we're not sure.

by milo :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:29pm

Saints put up 500 yards but an incredible inability to gain 1 yard on the ground (multiple occasions) is their downfall. Note: it is not just the fault of the running backs, and they took Reggie out for these plays, so it ain't him.

by Dales :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:38pm

All I can say is, Tom Brady must be even better than I thought he is (which already is pretty high up) to have caused this kind of offensive decline all by his absence. I honestly didn't think any single player could have that kind of decline for his team, especially when his replacement isn't playing historically bad...

by Yaguar :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 3:20am

Or Matt Cassel is really, really bad. I think Jeff Garcia could do 30 TDs in the Patriots offense easily.

by Justin Zeth :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 7:57pm

I keep telling you guys. The Steelers are fielding quite possibly the worst pass blocking o-line in NFL history. There is absolutely no way to overstate how bad they are.

Everything was ducky while they were playing the pass-rush-free Texans and Browns, but this thing's going to get real ugly real fast. Roethlisberger's going to get seriously hurt. As a Roethlisberger admirer, I can only hope he goes on IR (which, trust me, he will before too long, it's inevitable) with a blown-out knee or a torn Achilles or a torn hamstring or something, and not a severe concussion or torn up shoulder.

But honestly, it's going to take years to fix the Steelers' absolutely nonexistent offensive line. Even if Roethlisberger somehow avoids having his career prematurely ended by injuries, his prime stands to be pissed away because of the Steelers' appalling total ignorance of their o-line.

by Trogdor :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 8:15pm

So am I the only one who was amazed at how poorly the Steelers handled the last minute? Why didn't they kick the easy field goal with 1:15 or so and a timeout? Or failing that, why not kick it with about a minute and no timeouts? Failing that, why not kick it on 4th down after the sack with the clock running?

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to see the Steelers botch things so horribly (and if they had kicked, they'd still need to recover the onside and score a TD, so they were most likey losing anyway), and especially to see them so thoroughly helpless against a decent pass rush. 'Twas most entertaining seeing Eagle defenders beat Roethlisberger to his dropback point every other play. But it really aggravates me when professional coaches getting paid millions of dollars to make these decisions fail to do what is obviously right.

Well, at least Romeo won't be winning KCW this week. Granted, they got blown out so badly (by a mediocre Baltimore team, no less!) that none of his bad decisions could've risen to the level of Tomlin's foolishness, but still... So yeah, go Browns?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 8:26pm

Alright! Good start Cowboys.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 8:29pm

Nevermind...settling for a fieldgoal there is a loss.

by Ivarsson.se :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 8:47pm

I'm not sure what is more fluke: the Grant fumble or the Dallas WR collective case of the dropsies, but GB looks a little bit better early.

by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 8:52pm

How late must a late hit be to be late? After a guy rolls on the ground and then gets back up apparently isn't late enough.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 8:57pm

The Cowboys' offense is really moving. I'd trade a little bit if their D would improve some.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:00pm

Nice throw, Romo. I really hate having my team QBed by NextFavre.

by B :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:00pm

Does Romo only throw Ints in the end zone? We know he only fumbles near or behind the goal line.

by Ivarsson.se :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:06pm

He fumbles FG holds as well?

by batbatt :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:00pm

wow. one of those 'you idiot! take a knee in the endzone!' to go go go! plays...

by DaveInTucson :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:01pm

Nick Collins is the man!

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:11pm

I want to know who that guy is and what he's done with the real Collins.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:02pm

Ugh. Romo's got to have better vision than that. The reply was shown from his point of view, and if you've got laser-sights on Witten, it's an easy throw. But pan back just a bit and there are just too many defenders and it's time to move to the next option.

Very frustrating.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:04pm

Why can the Cowboys defenders never take the quarterback to the ground?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:17pm

...and again. I hate you Greg Ellis.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:18pm

I don't know, but they clearly haven't fixed the problem. Ellis should have crushed Rodgers, but he whiffed.

by B :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:04pm

Nice Favre impression by NotFavre.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:13pm

Dallas' offensive prowess has slowed down. Third and 8 and I'm not confident.... and a sack. Yeah.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:16pm

Man, the Cowboys look really, really ugly tonight.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:20pm

And it just got uglier. Is Dallas the most penalized team in the league this year?

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:21pm

BTW, is it just me, or is the traffic on the FO message boards during games down? Perhaps my memory is flawed, but I thought there were more people around last season...

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:25pm

This is my first year to post in the gameday thread.

And BTW: Felix Jones! Hell yes!

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:23pm

At least one Cowboy has something in him tonight.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:24pm

Nice. And look at TO block!!

by andrew :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:25pm

So any idea what the AGS game will be this week? ;)

by DaveInTucson :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:25pm

Wow. Woulda been nice to see some Packers somewhere on that side of the field.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:27pm

Excited for Heroes. NOT excited for Knight Rider.

by DaveInTucson :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:30pm

It would be good to see Rodgers getting some pass protection, too.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:30pm

Looking a little less ugly now...

by andrew :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:31pm

Why doesn't Pacman have an "A. Jones" on his jersey? They obviously have other Joneses on their team (Felix, Jerry, etc)...

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:37pm

I don't think they do that anymore. Not entirely sure, but wasn't there a rule change this year that prevents that? Haven't seen enough games (Damn you work!) to see if other teams do or not.

But I'm probably wrong and it's a Cowboys quirk.

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:36pm

Lance, half the folks are on the IRC channel. See page one.


by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:38pm

Damnit. I hate change!

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:40pm

Hmmm. Dallas has the ball inside the 20. So I smell a Romo interception soon?

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:45pm

Looks like he decided to fumble it instead.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:44pm

He actually threw it out of the reach of everyone instead of forcing it.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 9:49pm

I'll take that. I'd like a larger lead, but Dallas gets the ball back to start the half, which is nice.

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:00pm

Best thing about seeing my team on Sunday night instead of Monday night - No annoying and inane Tony Kornheiser commentary.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:06pm

I usually listen to MNF on mute (my gf goes to sleep early on Mondays), so I don't catch Kornheiser then. But when I was in Baltimore and got his DC sports radio show before he got his MNF gig, I have to say that he was the smartest guy doing sports radio out there. Way better than Mike & Mike or Colin Cowherd, who'll make the same f-ing point expressed ten different ways in a single two-minute rant.

by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:24pm

Agreed. Tony K. is the unsung king of sports radio (although not quite as good now that he's been separated from his longtime co-host Andy Pollin).

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:10pm


by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:11pm

Oops. Blown coverage by Dallas. Was that Adam Jones' fault?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:13pm

I thought they were going to miss another sack.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:13pm

NICE! Finally a sack when it matters.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:20pm

Miles Austin got a catch!?! WTH!?

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:20pm

Nice play, but man. Miles Austin isn't that fast!

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:21pm

In standing up.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:27pm


by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:24pm

Normally, I consider Madden to be like the Dick Vitale of the NFL. Every week, some guy is an All Pro, and the best at his position, etc. But with Witten, I wonder. Am I being homer, or is Witten really the best all-around TE in the game right now?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:44pm

Yes, he really is. I'm a Cowboys fan, but not a super homer. Witten just is the best.

by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:27pm

I've read on this very website that Witten is the best all-around TE in the league.

BTW was it my imagination or did Collins slip on that big Austin reception?

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:32pm

New Special Teams Strategy: Adam Jones, just run into the crowd and get tacked. No penalties, and less drama.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:35pm

Yeah. Three plays, and GB brought it each time with now answer from Dallas. Miserable offensive series. OH. The most penalized team in the league adds to it.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:43pm

Something of a non-call on the GB hold on Rodgers' scramble on that 2nd down play. But ti doesn't matter since the 3rd down pass is incomplete...

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:47pm

Should I know who Don Rickles is? I don't even know if that is spelled correctly.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:51pm

Arson55, you're young, aren't you....

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:01pm

Anyway, seriously, who's Don Rickles?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:52pm


by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:03pm

Well, to my defense, I'm too young (I'm 35) to remember Rickles, really, either. But when I was a kid, you'd see lots of re-runs (cable had like 25 channels) and he'd show up. He's like Don Knotts or something.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:57pm


by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:53pm

Two things: A) I HATE the intential grounding call in those situations. B) I LOVE the TD to Miles Austin.

by talys :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:55pm

NextFavre indeed.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:53pm

Miles Austin!? Again!? Freakish. Two catches in one game.

by andrew :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 10:56pm

Favre II is out-favring Notfavre.

by Temo :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 12:29am

That statement made me die a little on the inside. Just thought you should know that.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:04pm

Man, I'm liking Bennett so far this year. Not a lot of touches, but when he gets a hold of it he does something.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:15pm

I'm pretty sure this drive is pretty irrelevant. The Packers take way too long to get down the field.

by tuluse :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:21pm

Madden and Michaels have really deteriorated during the 4th quarter here. Its 1 part football, 5 parts talking about irrelevant stuff, and 2 parts unnecessary laughter from Michaels.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:29pm

Worst play ever.

by tuluse :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:30pm

Does McCarthy not passes that are longer than 8 yards in the playbook?

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:31pm

Yeah, it really does seem like GB just does dink-and-dunk, even in their hurry-up.

by Lance :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:33pm

I wonder if part of this is real-time practice. So fine, they aren't going to win this. But if they were really down by just a few points, then it's good experience for him to move the ball down field with urgency.

by tuluse :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:38pm

I could see that, I could also see it used as a confidence booster for an offense with a lot of young players. This way McCarthy gets to say, we really moved the ball against those guys at the end, let's build off of that, etc, etc.

by NRG :: Sun, 09/21/2008 - 11:38pm

If your 8-yard passes include 75 YAC, you don't need long passes.


by Temo :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 12:31am

What's with teams trying to do crazy lateral plays late in games against the Cowboys?

by B :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 8:34pm

I don't think I can take the Favregasm tonight. Go Marmalad!

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 8:51pm

Well, that was fast. Pick 6 in the first 5 minutes for the Jets. Gonna be a long game for the Bolts if they don't get it together soon.

by Rocco :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 8:49pm

So should Cowher start looking for houses in the San Diego area?

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 8:56pm

Damn, that was a nice pass defensed by Lowry.

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:09pm

Cromartie, when a QB giftwraps a pick 6 that well, you have to take it.

Or... the D can get a fumble on the next play and almost get to the end zone to make up for your drop I suppose.

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:20pm

Well, there ya go.

This game might be getting out of hand real quick at this rate.

by B :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:20pm

Well, he didn't drop that one. Favre should probably stop throwing to that side of the field.

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:23pm

*Whistles* Poor kicker. Well, we'll see if the Jets can get 5 yards to answer the INT.

by Dave Bernreuther :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:23pm

Did Jaws just call Favre "almost Favrelike?"

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:25pm

Would that create an infinite loop and destroy the universe? Forget the LHC, stop the MNF crew!

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:28pm

Well, surprise on-side kicking is one way to avoid a Sproles return...

by DaveInTucson :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:29pm

Listening to the Westwood One radio broadcast. Dennis Green's voice sounds like he's not going to make it to the end of the game.

by B :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:32pm

I always thought the Achilles heel was the Achilles heel of the foot.

by B :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:45pm

I love how all of Favre's mistakes are because he's struggling to learn the new system. I guess all the ints he's thrown over the years have been miscommunications, too.

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:48pm

Those were just him out there havin' fun.

by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:49pm

Well, in this case he threw it to an area where there were no receivers, as opposed to squeezing the ball into tight coverage. I'm willing to chalk that up to learning a new system and lack of familiarity with his receivers.

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

by cd6 :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:49pm

That was just an atrocious, atrocious interception thrown by Favre. Wow.

He just wound up and bombed it, and away it went, and on the screen, it sailed over some receiver's head and looked like it was falling in no man's land, falling, falling, and then, BOOM, a player comes DIVING onto the screen to catch the ball, landing just in bounds, and that player is wearing a Chargers jersey.

This quarterbacking play is as bad as Kornheiser's commentary, who just said something like: "I should think Brett would know the playbook by now... and Jaws is shaking his head." And Jaws interrupts to say "Tony you're a dumbass."

Now then, how about another Phil Rivers TD for my fantasy team?

I need to not wax poetic after drinking.

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:51pm

And the slaughter continues.

by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 10:32pm

Fantastic. The Chargers score a TD after a Favre interception, so the director switches to the Favrecam to see his reaction. Only problem is, you can't even see Favre because some lineman's fat ass is in the way! So the Chargers just scored a TD and we're all looking at a Jet lineman's fat ass.

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 10:00pm

Favre has never won a game when his team was down 14+? Ever? How is that possible?

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 10:08pm

I would guess that down 14+ he goes full gunslinger 'I must singlehandedly win this game and will the ball into my receivers hands' mode and dooms his chances.

by Scott C :: Tue, 09/23/2008 - 12:19am

Rivers did that two games in a row, on the road, in 2006. IIRC it was 17 down at Denver and 21 down at Cincinati.

by DaveInTucson :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 10:12pm

Clearly not true. Doesn't anyone remember the Packers being down 14-0 to the Seahawks last January?

by Scott C :: Tue, 09/23/2008 - 12:23am

Maybe he meant by *more* than 14?

by Rocco :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:00pm

I would go to bed, but this game still has fantasy implications for me- my opponent is only down 13 with Favre and Kaeding. I'm a little nervous, especially since the Jets are getting the ball back.

by Rocco :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:35pm

And with that Kaeding FG, I'm now going to lose by 1 tenth of a point. I will now light myself on fire.

by Harris :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:06pm

As it turns out, listening to Amy Winehouse while watching Favre get the stuffing kicked out of him is much more enjoyable than listening to Kornheiser while watching Favre get the stuffing kicked out of him. Though, to be honest, watching Favre get the stuffing kicked out of him is pretty enjoyable on its own.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:23pm

Is anybody else seeing this? 3 straight penalties on the D on a 2 point conversion try.

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

by andrew :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:24pm

Okay the game was out of reach anyway, but the Jets throwing on their 2 pt attempt from the six inch line was just stupid. Not lining up under center to make them respect the possibilty of a sneak was just stupid.

by Moridin :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:24pm

Can't they just give them the 2 after consecutive penalties?

by DaveInTucson :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:25pm

Dear Ted Thompson,

Please forgive us.

Every Packer fan, everywhere.

by andrew :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:27pm

Look, he was right about Rodgers... but what Favre has done here isn't why, he doesn't have quite the team in New York that he had in Green Bay.

by DaveInTucson :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:49pm

I'm a Packer fan, and I've had a lot of fun watching Favre play and win games. But I've seen a lot of melt-downs. In a playoff game, in overtime, I've seen him throw an interception that cost the Packers the game -- twice.

Favre seems to have two modes of play -- very much in control, or total melt-down. And sooner or later, melt-down Favre makes an appearance.

by andrew :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:29pm

Fantasy fans everywhere are imploring the chargers to kick a FG here.

by Rocco :: Mon, 09/22/2008 - 11:37pm

Not those of us up by 3 against Kaeding.