Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 8 Open Discussion Thread

Sun, Oct 26 Stadium Time (ET) Network
OAK @ BAL M&T Bank Stadium 1:00 PM CBS
ARI @ CAR Bank of America Stadium 1:00 PM FOX
TB @ DAL Texas Stadium 1:00 PM FOX
WAS @ DET Ford Field 1:00 PM FOX
BUF @ MIA Dolphin Stadium 1:00 PM CBS
STL @ NE Gillette Stadium 1:00 PM FOX
SD @ NO Wembley Stadium 1:00 PM CBS
KC @ NYJ Giants Stadium 1:00 PM CBS
ATL @ PHI Lincoln Financial Field 1:00 PM FOX
CLE @ JAC Jacksonville Municipal Stadium 4:05 PM CBS
CIN @ HOU Reliant Stadium 4:05 PM CBS
NYG @ PIT Heinz Field 4:15 PM FOX
SEA @ SF Candlestick Park 4:15 PM FOX
Mon, Oct 27 Stadium Time (ET) Network
IND @ TEN LP Field 8:30 PM ESPN


by PatsFan :: Thu, 10/23/2008 - 7:27pm

In advance of the games, any suggestions on how the open discussions can be made better? Surely I'm not the only person who notices that discussion traffic is wayyyyy down. I've asked about reverting to the semi-old system (the BB), but have been told it's a non-starter.

Trying to be constructive, here are a couple of suggestions I have:
1) Give people an option to look at the comment thread in reverse chronological order (newest first). That way the newest comments will be on the first page.
2) Go back to the old FO open discussion practice of having separate threads for the 1pm games, the 4pm games, and say one combined thread for the Sun&Mon night games.

What other ideas do people have?

by Independent George :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 2:01pm

Having a single-page view of the comments would be very useful. Of course, this was a major source of the server issues under the old system, but it also gave the old threads the feeling of a real conversation in a crowded bar. Each time you refreshed, you kept picking up snippets of other people's comments, and replying to them in real time.

Splitting the comments into pages cuts server load by tons, but it makes it that much harder to follow a conversation.

by Dales :: Sat, 10/25/2008 - 8:56am

The 'semi-old' system, which was in place last year, paged the Open Discussion threads.

However, the pages served quickly so having a discussion was not painful.

by Dales :: Thu, 10/23/2008 - 7:46pm

PatsFan, undoubtedly the main reason the open discussions are less active is that the server simply is painfully slow during the games. It doesn't exactly fly during the week but on gameday, it takes forever with just the handful who are posting on it.

Until and if the server issues are fixed (frankly, the server that it is housed upon is undoubtedly powerful enough-- something isn't coded right- I am sure of it having run a fairly busy website once before), the open discussions are not going to be very busy.

by PatsFan :: Thu, 10/23/2008 - 9:27pm

Adam Schefter at NFL.com says that Sammy Morris will miss the next 2-3 weeks and that Lamont Jordan has aggravated his calf and won't be able to play this week.

by Bywater Brat (not verified) :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 10:51am

Am I crazy to play JarvisGreen this week or do you think Belichick is gonna keep airing it out and utilize Faulk more? What about speedster Donnie Avery against the slow Pats? I think this match-up will tell us a lot about the Pats, as this site has noted- good teams dominate poor opponents. We'll prolly discover how far Jaws is up their ass by the end too...

by JasonK :: Thu, 10/23/2008 - 10:55pm

As a Giants fan, I am very nervous about field conditions at Pittsburgh this weekend. A not-insubstantial amount of rain is forecasted between Friday night and Sunday, and Pitt has a home game on Saturday. The Giants pass rush v. the Steelers' OL is NY's biggest advantage in this game, and a painted mud field will do go pretty far in neutralizing that edge.

by Bywater Brat (not verified) :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 10:47am

If the Steelers RBs can keep the Giant LBs honest about their gaps, look for Heath Miller to get some nice grabs over the middle to amke up for the inevitable 3rd and 15s. Unless the Steelers get behind by more than 9 points in the first half then I see them edging one out with a couple long, fugly drives in the second half. Hopefully Eli gets shaken hard, early, just like a good b*tch.

by Bill Barnwell :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 2:42am

I'm interested in hearing people's suggestions/wants. I'm not saying that we necessarily will be switching things over, but I'd like to hear what people would want in the ideal game discussion system.

by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 10:42am

Maybe you can't put all the comments on one page, but how about doubling the number of comments per page? That seems like a good compromise.

Also, nested replies really aren't conducive to the conversational feel we used to have. Imagine if you guys did Audibles by replying to sender only when you have a response, rather than replying to all. It would stifle the discussion because no one would see anyone else's responses. Essentially, that's the position you've put us in by using nested replies unless we go back and read through every comment each time we refresh, which is tedious.

I see the the pages are loading much faster. That should help.

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

by Pat F. :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:12pm

Echoing someone else's suggestion, having the comments displayed (or the option to display them) in reverse chronological order would be great.

by tuluse :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:48pm

If there was just a quick way to tell which posts were new, it would be a lot nicer.

by Kurt :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 8:37pm

This comment will be a good example; as nobody will read it:

The new system of replying to a specific post and having it appear right after that post is great for other threads, but lousy for game discussions. Game discussions need to be in strict chronological order. Nobody's going to read through the enture thread to look for new posts in the middle.

Alternatively, if you keep it this way, would it be possible to boldfae the 10/20/whatever most recent posts? That way, they'd be easier to find during a quick scan of the thread.

by ammek :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 7:52am

It's Wembley week! An opportunity for Europeans to re-astonish themselves at the colossal amount of hype and razzmatazz that accompanies NFL games. To reemphasise (with an 's') those cultural differences (this year: cheerleaders). And to be vaguely seduced by it all.

I agree with Mike Tanier that Chargers-Saints was a strange choice for London. Feelings about the Chuck Muncie / Wes Chandler trades run low across the pond. Neither team has much of a following in Britain, where I sense that most affiliations were forged during the Fridge era, when the game was fashionable but San Diego and New Orleans were poor. It might have made more sense to play in Germany, France or the Netherlands, where support for a team is more often the consequence of a vacation or a study period in the US -- and consequently the Chargers and Saints are better known.

by Bywater Brat (not verified) :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 10:56am

The white conspiracy to kick dirt in the face of NOLA continues...

by Dales :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 12:05pm

Santonio was spliffin'.

The way it was handled strikes me as odd. He gets pulled over, admits to weed in the car, and they let him go but will mail him a summons for possession? Isn't the whole idea to make the roads safer? Should he not be charged with driving under the influence?

I would have hoped that would be considered the real offense here, rather than possession.

by tuluse :: Fri, 10/24/2008 - 1:45pm

Well, he could only be charged with a DUI if we has actually under the influence. It's possible he wasn't high at the time, and was just taking his weed home or something.

by Dales :: Sat, 10/25/2008 - 8:54am

"after a traffic stop in which police smelled burning marijuana"

Gotta think he was high based on that tidbit. Or, at least the suspicion should have been there to require a test.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:13pm

Driving stoned does not equal driving drunk.

Chris Horton for defensive rookie of the year.

by Dales :: Mon, 10/27/2008 - 1:57pm

Are you claiming that driving under the influence of marijuana is not against the law in Pennsylvania?

If so, then I believe you are mistaken about that.

by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:30am

Be sure to join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for IRC football chat! cognet.catch22.org, channel #fo

Brief tutorial for the IRC-shy:

- Download mIRC from mIRC.com
- type /server cognet.catch22.org into the status window
- type /join #fo

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:10pm

Well, at least the punter can make a play. That was actually a good tackle by Paulescu. Now if only someone could have tackled him before that.

by TomC :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:15pm

Yes, he's a candidate for The Rookie Romanian Punter Hall of Fame.

by TomC :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:10pm

Any suggestions for a good IRC client for Mac OSX?

by TomC :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:18pm

Actually, I appear to have stumbled blindly into the correct chat room using Colloquy.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:15pm

Bud Light: You can swallow it.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:24pm

The Cowboys just have nothing right now. It is amazing how much of their offense must be centered around Romo's ability to move around.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:25pm

Apparently no one told the Eagles offense that they needed to play today. Either that or they're still tired from staying up until 2AM to watch the Phillies win.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:27pm

Been a really entertaining series so far. I hope it goes 7.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:31pm

Well, I understand why you would want that, but we here in Philly are hoping to wrap it up in 5.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:30pm

That is a totally bogus personal foul call on Trent Cole.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:32pm

Yet another bullshit roughing the passer call. They should just acknowledge reality and make the fucking game two-hand touch.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:38pm

My God, I found myself agreeing with Tony Siragusa (sp?) It's the end of the world.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:39pm

A first down for the Cowboys! Unbelievable!

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:42pm

McNabb sacked, fumbled, recovered by the Falcons. AAAIIIEEE!

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:43pm

You can't stop Tyler Thigpen, you can only hope to contain him.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:45pm

Well, at least the Eagles D is playing well.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:47pm

At least I can say the same thing about the Cowboys.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:47pm

The NFC East is not representing right now. Dallas looks ugly. Philly has lost their offense. And Washington is losing to Detroit.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:52pm

McNabb down. Shit.

ETA: He walked off on his own power but is still being checked out by the medical staff. Ugh.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:58pm

TD Falcons. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:05pm

And of course, the Eagles WRs can't hold onto anything to save their lives. Jesus Christ. Nice special teams play by Greg Lewis, though, to down the punt at the one yard line.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:15pm

That was the worst screen I've ever seen. And as a Cowboys fan, I've seen a lot of really bad screens.

by Briguy :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:24pm

I haven't used this all season, but I had to sign in to talk about Moore's soccer slide celebration.

First: Best. Celebration. Ever. It was quick, subtle, not unduly distracting, and it was obvious that he understands what the fans in Wembley are used to seeing. Good for him.

Second: Absolutely ridiculous that they called a penalty on it. The fans clearly agreed. Hey NFL: If you're looking to expand your fan base, maybe you shouldn't let them in on the dirty little secret that the players aren't allowed to have fun out there?

Third: Very disappointing that the announcers didn't catch on until a few minutes after. I have a feeling someone in the booth had to explain to them what Moore was doing there.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:23pm

Yes! Roy Williams! Touchdown!

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:25pm

Nice fade route by Roy Williams, and Dallas has the lead.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:26pm

Hey, when are the defenses going to show up at Wembley?

by Yaguar :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:48pm

They won't. No defense can show up against Drew Brees, and the Saints defense is incapable of showing up against anyone.

by James-London :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:28pm

Damn. We switched to GMT last night, and so I miss most of the first half of the Saints-Chargers. Socialist TV is awesome; every time there's a break in the action we get Mike Carlson & Jerry Rice. Beats the shit out of the Sky Sports comedians.

Anyone watching Buffalo @ Miami; how are the 'Fins going?

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:31pm

Tyler Thigpen, who looked so unbelievably bad earlier in the year, is having a very solid game this week. Scored the touch with just a few seconds left in the half to tie the game.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:33pm

Awesome! Eagles kick a 36-yd FG to go into halftime with a 10-7 lead.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:42pm

...so Pat Watkins gets a personal foul for knocking people off of the pile for the fumble? Because that doesn't happen after every fumble?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:54pm

The Cowboys defense is pumped up now. I hope they stay that way because they won't get much help from the offense.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:55pm

Touchdown Westbrook. Jon Runyan. HOF? Discuss.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:05pm


That is all.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:55pm

Touchdown Westbrook. Jon Runyan. HOF? Discuss.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:56pm

Welcome back, Westie.

by el plaga :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:59pm

what, jon runyan hall of fame? how many sacks did strahan get on mcnabb again?

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:04pm

Did I just read the ticker right? Flacco had a 43 yard reception?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:10pm

Not watching that game, but it showed up in the Box Score so I would guess so.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:14pm

Chargers get inside the 10. Penalty. Drives them back.

Next play, unabated. Get the yards right back.

Two plays later, a touchdown called back on a hold.

Ugly sequence. They'll go for the figgie.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:16pm

Ted Ginn Jr.: 5 catches for 150.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:24pm

In other words, Ginn continues his season-long campaign to fuck over my LL team.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by James-London :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:26pm

Does the World end tomorrow? Or do the Bills DB's just suck?

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

by Rocco :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:31pm

The Chargers had a terrible PI call go against them. I can imagine we'll hear Norv and LdT whining about this one tomorrow.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:33pm

I fully approve of sending Ken Hamlin on a blitz.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:36pm

LJ Smith just took a really bad helmet to helmet shot and is still down on the field. Yikes.

ETA: He's up and walked off the field under his own power, but he still looks really woozy.

by James-London :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:36pm

Total BS Interference call on the Chargers leads to a TD for the Saints. The first time San Deigo make a play on defense, the refs throw the flag. I guess when it's not your day, it's not your day.

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:42pm

Dear Tampa Bay Buccaneers,

It would be really great if you got your heads out of your collective asses and beat the Cowboys.


The Philadelphia Eagles

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:44pm

Fortunately, the Dallas defense has decided they actually want to play this week. Hopefully they keep it up here.

by James-London :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:01pm

OH boy, Nantz describes Johnny Wilkinson as "possibly the greatest rugby player of the last 10 years", ignoring the claims of at least 15 others, including 3 other English players. Please Jim, stick to football.

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:08pm

Or, better yet, give up announcing sports entirely.

by James-London :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:07pm

After lighting up the Chargers for a whole game, the Saints give up 10 quick points, and Brees throws his 1st pick. New Orleans might end up throwing this away.

ETA: Tremendous challenge by Sean Peyton (The INT was bang in front of him), as he spotted that Weddle didn't have control of the ball on the way down. Saints win the challenge and get the ball back.

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

by Ben B. :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:09pm

Ok, I'm following online, and I see it got reversed (like Brees' interception in the first half). But the Chargers somehow don't get the pass interference penalty now?

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:06pm

C'mon Reid, go for it on 4th down. Please.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:17pm

You were reading my mind. Biggest OL in the league and a 280lb. FB. Surely they can get six inches. Of course, I would have gone for it at the goal line too.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by B :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:06pm

At the end of the NE/STL game, Dante Hall took a punt in the end zone. After dancing around for a bit, he stepped out of the back of the end zone, wouldn't that be a safety?

by PatsFan :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:57pm

No, because he never came out of the endzone and the Patriots were the source of impetus that put the ball in the endzone in the first place.

The bigger question is what the heck was Hall thinking about back there?? As a Pats fan I'm glad he brainlessly blew ten seconds doing it, but WTF?

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:06pm

Dear Cowboys defense,

Thank you for deciding to play this week.

a Dallas Cowboys fan.

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:10pm

Oooh, bad call on Atlanta - refs are saying they muffed the punt and it was recovered by Philly, but on the replay it doesn't appear that the Atlanta punt returner did touch it. However, Atlanta is out of time outs, so they can't challenge - Mike Smith looks like he is going to have a stroke.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:10pm

They flipped over to the Cardinals/Panthers game in time to see a great run from Williams finish it off.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:10pm

Refs call a muffed punt on Atlanta. Eagles recover at midfield. Replays show return man didn't touch the ball, but the Falcons used all their timeouts and can't challenge.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:13pm

....And then Westie takes the ball for a 39-yard TD scramble, icing the game.

Fly Eagles fly!

by Foolio (not verified) :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:18pm

How's the Joey-Porter-is-a-bust-and-Adalius-Thomas-is-much-better thing going? Porter looks like a lead candidate for DPOY from where I'm sitting. Seem to remember you and all the idiots on this board were touting that idea all year last year...

by Rocco :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:19pm

Okay, I just giggled when Troy Aikman said "I think he's short, Dick." Yes, I'm a 5 year old.

by Rocco :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:22pm

Fast Willie who? Mewelde Moore has been a revelation. I can understand why the Vikings didn't need him, but he's welcome in Pittsburgh.

by Yaguar :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:28pm

Drew Brees MVP watch -

His current pace for the season:

420/608 for 5126 yards, 30 TDs, 16 INTs.

by Rocco :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:47pm

BRoeth was hitting Holmes' stash before he made that throw.

by JasonK :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 5:02pm

It looks to me like the Giants are doing a lot less pulling in their running game than usually today. I think they've gone to faster-developing runs because of how good the Pittsburgh defense is at getting penetration.

by JasonK :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 5:05pm

And that's a TD. I don't know what Aikman's talking about as the reverse-angle replay shows Jacobs getting the ball over the line. The only question is whether it was after the whistle blew on "forward progress."

by Rocco :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 6:32pm

Nice of the Steelers to shoot themselves in the foot to keep the game close. It's like they feel the need to emulate the 2005-2007 Giants.

by Tarrant :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:17pm

A comical snap by the Steelers longsnapper that sails about 5 feet over the head over the head of the punter and out of the back of the end zone for a safety, tying the game. Giants now marching down the field for a go-ahead score.

by Yaxley :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:23pm

The Steelers' long snapper was injured. That was James Harrison filling in. Poorly.

by Harris :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:25pm

Jesus H. Christ. Bad enough I have to live in a world where the goddamn Giants win the Super Bowl, now I have to live in a world where the Giants might actually be the best team in the league. It's enough to make a man eat his gun.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by CathyW :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:45pm

Just keep thinking about the Phillies, Harris. It's all about the Phillies. The Giants are not worth you eating your gun.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 8:50pm

PhillyCWC, Harris,

Come on, we're just trying to represent for the NFC East. We're already SB champs, so we get the nod as best team until proven otherwise, so there is no need to eat a gun over the thought. You guys win the SB, you get that privvy too.

I feel very fortunate to have won that game. We should have won by more, given all of the TOs. But we should have lost a fumble, and we could NOT run the ball at all. I continue to be thrilled at the staff's confidence in Jacobs since he is my fantasy main guy, but I think Ward is a better running back overall. The Steelers' defense is for real.

But Eli was good today. He should have had 4 more completions than he did from flat out drops, and had 3 more that *could* have been catches.

by compucrazy :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:39pm

I know the Giants defensive line is one of the best in the league, but that fact that the Steelers are 5-2 despite having an offensive line that blocks worse than a velvet rope is just amazing. The James Harrison snap is bad luck, but I highly doubt he spends much, if any time in practice working on long snaps.

by Dales :: Sun, 10/26/2008 - 8:53pm

Black and gold looked for real to me. Best run defense in the league that I have seen so far.

by B :: Mon, 10/27/2008 - 9:05pm

Howcome it's not okay to have a football game opposite game four of the World Series, but opposite game five is ok? I guess there's a less likely chance of game five, but still.

by Dales :: Mon, 10/27/2008 - 9:35pm

Crazy series there. Johnson fumbles, Colts recover, but the refs never signal anything and rule Johnson down. Fischer gets a play off quickly to prevent a challenge, which would have clearly shown the ball to be out. Then the Colts have a pass that was in the hands of the defender, who pulls a Manningham and bobbles and drops it, so the Titans still have the ball.

And proceed to miss the field goal.

by CathyW :: Mon, 10/27/2008 - 9:39pm

Is anyone actually watching the football game? I'm glued to the World Series - Phillies could (dare I say?) win it all tonight.

by B :: Mon, 10/27/2008 - 9:50pm

I'm flipping back and forth, and successfully watching neither.

by Yaguar :: Mon, 10/27/2008 - 10:48pm

As a dutiful Colts fan, I have been completely ignoring the series.

Summary so far:

Titans offense has been bad, except for the opening drive. Manning has had lots of time to throw, surprisingly, but the Titans DBs have played heroically.

Titans have received some help from officials.