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Help Add to KUBIAK

Hello, everyone. We'll be adding new material to KUBIAK over the next couple of weeks -- new projection columns and technical features, not just updates on player roles and stats. Auction values are probably the most-requested item, and we're working on that. We're also working on more dymanic ADP data that will match the specific type of league you are in.

A third thing that is often requested is special teams data. Some leagues give credit if your wide receiver or running back scores a return touchdown. We've also had requests from a few people whose leagues give credit for return yardage. So, I wanted to ask the readers:

1) If you are in a league that counts special teams separately, how is that set up? Do you draft these players as wide receivers and running backs, or in a special teams slot? How many points do you generally get for yardage? What options should we give after adding return data to the application?

2) What other stats are tracked in your leagues, and what would be useful to add to KUBIAK? Sacks for quarterbacks? Yardage for team defense? Something else?

Note this isn't the place to argue about the projections themselves, although I'm happy to take questions at mailbag-at-footballoutsiders.com.


38 comments, Last at 20 Aug 2008, 6:51pm

1 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Jeff Roman // Jul 29, 2008 - 2:00pm

The way we have done in the past is: 6 points for a return TD, and 1 point for every 50 return yards.
Each player is treated like their official roster position. Devin Hester (WR), Dante Hall (WR)

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2 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by billsfan // Jul 29, 2008 - 2:31pm

One league I'm in counts ST plays for regular roster positions (yardage and TDs). Two years ago, Wes Welker outscored Tomlinson, and Dante Hall wasn't far behind. Now, return yards count for about half as much as Yards Passing.

My main league, though, allows any position (QB/RB/WR/TE/K/DST) at flex. This is a bit bizarre, but I haven't found a satisfactory way to make KUBIAK reflect that. I tried decimals to approximate how my league usually goes (e.g. 1.6 QB, 1.3 RB, 1.1 WR), but KUBIAK seems to just ignore the decimals.

My main league also counts yards allowed for team defense, and has milestone bonuses for skill positions. For example, 100 yards rushing would get a three-point bonus in addition to the points already accumulated for the first 99 yards.

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3 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Chad W // Jul 29, 2008 - 2:40pm

Here's a few items not included in the Kubiak projections that some of my leagues use, some of which are extremely hard to predict, I assume:


100 + yards rushing or receiving - 2 point bonus

300 + yards passing - 3 point bonus

400 + yards passing - 4 point bonus

40 + yard TD (rushing, passing, or receiving) - 2 point bonus

2 point conversion (running, passing, receiving) - 2 points

Defense, yards allowed

less than 100 - 10 points
100-199 - 5 points
200-299 - 2 points
300-349 - 1 point
400-449 - (-1) point
450-499 - (-2) points
500-549 - (-5) points
550+ - (-6) points

Special teams:
TDs only count, not yardage, and we don't draft specifically for ST

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4 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by SuperBears // Jul 29, 2008 - 2:46pm

I am in a super retarded league that has a few things different than what Kubiak employs:
1. Any played who gets a special teams TD gets 13 points but they are used as a WR/RB
2. Points for receptions only for WR's. In the past I have just gone into the code and done this change myself. I would love if it was an option.
3. Points for receptions for TE's (its a different ratio) see above current solution.

Finally, Kubiak seems to still have an issue dealing with flex players that I really wish would be fixed.

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5 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Nick W // Jul 29, 2008 - 2:49pm

I'm the LM of a league that uses some of these things. We give 1 point per 10 return yards and count return TDs as worth 6. We also give 5 point bonuses for >100 rushing or receiving yards and >300 passing yards.

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6 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Nick W // Jul 29, 2008 - 2:51pm

Oh yea, there are no designated slots for ST players. They go into any slot (RB, WR, RB/WR, TE, or OP, which is any offensive player).

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7 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Michael Rutter // Jul 29, 2008 - 2:58pm

The fantasy leagues on NFL.com include yardage for team defense. I believe that is the only metric they use that isn't currently covered by KUBIAK

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8 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by White Rose Duelist // Jul 29, 2008 - 3:00pm

A league I was in last year gave 1 point per 50 return yards. Of course, that league also drafted punters, so we might not be the best guideline to use.

On a related note, does anyone have the URL for the discussion thread that produced the DPAR-approximating scoring system? Is anyone running and/or would be interested in playing in a DPAR (or DYAR) fantasy league this year?

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9 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Fred // Jul 29, 2008 - 4:14pm

1. My league has IDP rosters and if you have to start the player at their regular position to be able to collect return points. Its one point per 15 yards and 6 per TD.

2.Our league offers points for coaches based on wins vs loss and by how much... but its fairly easy to figure out who you want to start there.

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10 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Shattenjager // Jul 29, 2008 - 4:26pm

I am the commissioner of a league that does a few things differently than usual, so I thought I would chip in. First (this is an FO-inspired rule), we count all fumbles (instead of just those lost) as -2 points and all fumbles forced as 2 points for defenses (instead of recoveries). Second, we start a slightly unusual lineup of 2 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 WR/TE, 1 RB/WR, 1 K, and 1 DEF. It's a slightly odd, experimental league I'm going to be making adjustments to as I go to try to make it the truest test of fantasy ability I can, so I'm not sure it's one to follow.

I have also played in a league in the past that used sacks for quarterbacks (-1) as well, so that might be a good idea.

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11 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by MatMan // Jul 29, 2008 - 4:26pm

In my league, D/STs are scored accoring to yardage allowed and points allowed (and points scored, of course, plus interceptions, etc).

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12 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Marcumzilla // Jul 29, 2008 - 4:43pm

I've had issues in the past with having a RB/WR flex and a WR/TE flex. (Still waiting for Paypal payment to clear, so my apologies if it's better on this year's.)

We've also done 1 pt/50 yards for returns, but they take a WR slot. I don't know if ours would work properly for a DB return man (IDP league).

In an unrelated, but funny, note, in another IDP league, someone had a defensive player score an offensive touchdown (Vrabel?) as a TE, but not get any points for it, and lost that game by less than the difference.

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13 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Pete // Jul 29, 2008 - 5:05pm

I also have been in leagues that have point structures for Defenses on how many yards were allowed by an offense per game.

I would also like Kubiak to generate possibilities for bonuses. Some QB stats like passing yards per game get extra points. If a QB throws more than 250 yards they get an extra point... 300 yards 2 extra points, etc. Same for RB and WR yardage and/or receptions (e.g., 3 receptions gets a point) too for a game. So any Bonus Points per game would be nice to incorporate.

I would definitely like to see along side KFFL and FOX and ESPN more comparisons to cheat sheets like the ones that Yahoo or Sportsline uses.... or a way to at least add your own data to compare from other cheat sheets found online or in other Fantasy Magazines. The more competitors I can compare it to the better I am educated as to what my opponents will likely be using. I am learning Excel now just for this purpose. I just finished changing the ESPN ones into Sportsline today and it worked... although it still says ESPN. I don't know all the code and will need to update my last Kubiak before the draft with that information. I hope that makes sense... but the more cheatsheets and ADPs we can add to it the better.

Kubiak is good on a yearly basis prior to the season. But I am in some keeper leagues and it would be helpful to have an update at the end of the season or just beyond the post season of the NFL to see a quick preview of Kubiak for the coming season... Yes I know many changes occur in the NFL in an offseason but I need to guess on who to keep on my team for next year and who to throw away. I could have kept E Graham last year and I am totally kicking myself because I could have only have to give up a 16th round draft pick for a top 10 RB this year and now I need to burn a 2d or 3d round pick on him in this year's draft. I could have had him for years at a great draft pick price! So any way Kubiak can help us Keeper Leagues pick quality players to keep the next year will be awesome. I know it is a shot in the dark compared to all the offseason activity but it would be worth a late Kubiak update to help make a pick. Something is better than nothing.

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14 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by MatMan // Jul 29, 2008 - 5:09pm

KUBIAK needs more boobies.

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15 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Johnny Quest // Jul 29, 2008 - 5:16pm

KUBIAK is a sellout.

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16 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Matt // Jul 29, 2008 - 5:26pm

My PPR league has the following point values for team D/ST:

Points Allowed

0-110: 2 points

7-10: 5 points

1-6: 10 points

Yards Allowed

299 Yds: 3 points

Rush/Receive >99 Yards 3 points

Pass, Reception or Run >39 Yards: 1 point

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17 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by JR // Jul 29, 2008 - 6:18pm

3 - I ran a regression last year to map total season rushing yardage to # of 100 yard games. Ditto with receiving and 300 yard passing games. I used 2005-6 data. I will probably update this year. I think that is as good as you are going to get. Let me know if you are interested in the results of that.

Other items:
I think that yardage defense would be a good thing to add. That is the standard in Sportsline and NFL.com leagues, and I think that it is fairly common in other leagues.

Return TDs would be good to add. I really like giving individuals 6 points for every TD scored and our league has done it that way.

Distance scoring is another possibility. I have looked at the % of TDs that break a distance threshold by running and also receiving, split by TE, WR, RB. That's probably OK. I could probably make some type of adjustment for players more/less likely than average to score from distance, but it might be nice if KUBIAK did that for me.

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18 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Richard // Jul 29, 2008 - 6:18pm

It would be nice if we could alter the splits on Points Allowed. ESPN's leagues use 14-17, 18-21, 22-27, 35-45 and 46+ rather than 14-20, 21-27 and 35+.

Obviously, I wouldn't want to lose the current splits though as those are helpful in Yahoo leagues.

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19 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Pete // Jul 29, 2008 - 6:22pm

I would also recommend an electronic way to mark off drafted players. As a result, either the remaining players adjust accordingly or probabilities are given live for you to consider the likelihood that a player will be available for your next pick. This may require some sort of set up in which it analyzes the draft picks of other teams live too. Not sure how the Excel sheet could do that but it would be nice.

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20 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Pete // Jul 29, 2008 - 6:30pm

It would also be cool to see which RBs do or do not share carries. I know they all have backups that play... but if there were an asterisk next to the name of the RBs that are in 2 RB committees that too would be helpful to know with a quick look.

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21 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by buzz // Jul 29, 2008 - 7:18pm

First Kubiak is set up way better than pretty much any other site. Secondly, a small things that I think would be great additions.
1) Format the redzone target page names to be equal to the ones on the main projection page. This way you could easily do a Vlookup to get the redzone information on the correct page.
2) add columns for height and weight since you guys obviously already have that info anyway. Given the WR article in the book, etc I think this would be helpful.
3)Agree that yardage for Defenses is a great add
4)Sacks are also a good add
5) Different points per reception per position. For example using .5 per RB, 1 for WR and 1.5 for TE.
6)With the kicker and defense baseline adjustment is I woudl like to exclude TE for that calculation. If TE could be excluded seperately that would make it easier as it under values TE's in some leagues
7) Most of these are minor. I would agree that the auction values are the most important.

Thanks for everything.

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22 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Doug Darroch // Jul 29, 2008 - 8:05pm

My league gives 1 point for every 10 punt return yards, 1 point for every 20 kick return yards, and 6 points for a TD. There are no extra positions for special teams but if one of your WR's or DB's is a returner they have extra value. Nate Burleson finished 11th in scoring for WR's in our league last season. We also give a 1 point bonus for first downs (1/2 passing)

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23 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Felden // Jul 29, 2008 - 8:21pm

An option for just WR/TE flex would be nice...we've got a flex spot you can't use a running back in.

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24 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Dennis // Jul 29, 2008 - 8:59pm

Our league does return yardage and touchdowns. It's not a separate position, the players go in their regular positions. The IDPs also get the return points. We give 6 points for a TD and 1 point for every 25 return yards.

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25 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Bob // Jul 29, 2008 - 11:20pm

CBSSports leagues also use yards allowed as part of DEF fantasy scoring so that would be very helpful.

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26 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Bob // Jul 29, 2008 - 11:26pm

Maybe I am not seeing it but when you subset down to one position (say QB) it would be nice if it displayed the numerical ranking WITHIN that position in addition to the global ranking that it shows now via the row numbers

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27 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Todd S. // Jul 29, 2008 - 11:47pm

Well since you asked...

One league I am in does add/subtract points for defensive yardage allowed. I'm going to try copying from the table to here:

Total Net Yards Allowed 0-149 10
Total Net Yards Allowed 150-349 9.9 points for 150, and then -.1 point for every 2 thereafter
Total Net Yards Allowed 350-359 0
Total Net Yards Allowed 360-559 -.1 points for 360, and then -.1 point for every 2 thereafter
Total Net Yards Allowed 560-999 -10

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28 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by admin // Jul 30, 2008 - 10:04am

Thanks everyone for their comments. I'll work on some of these things. We've often had a problem with the WR/TE flex issue. To put it simply, there's no way you would ever fill that spot with a tight end unless the rules in your league were REALLY wacky. So we would rather concentrate our programming time on other issues.

It states on the scoring page that we've found no way to significantly predict "distance" touchdowns, so we simply do not include it. Consider them random, like safeties and missed extra points.

By the way, update going up as we speak. Doesn't address any of these stats, but it does deal with some player changes.

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29 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by dryheat // Jul 30, 2008 - 10:43am

Just as a heads up, Justin McCareins plays for Tennessee, and Eric Parker is a free agent.

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30 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Pete // Jul 30, 2008 - 12:03pm

Give us Mac users some love and let us save and import our KUBIAK settings automatically.

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31 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by JR // Jul 30, 2008 - 1:25pm

Thanks, Aaron. I think that you are right that distance scoring is largely random. However, it should fairly consistently favor WRs over RBs over TEs, and people in leagues which emphasize distance scoring should probably try to account for that.

I found the info in the linked website to be helpful. It is probably best to look to the RB totals, WR totals, TE totals, etc. rather than worrying about any individuals (even if the data weren't dated).

I look forward to seeing an update with defensive yardage.

Thanks again.

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32 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Pete // Jul 30, 2008 - 6:17pm

Okay, so I know I have posted a number of times, but my ideas are mostly ones that have not been said thus far. I would like to add another suggestion not previously given and then add to a previous one.

It would be helpful to have an extra tab at the bottom that would take you to a view of the 2008 team schedule hardest to easiest or vice versa (easiest to hardest schedule). Suppose I need to determine which WR to take between to close projections. I could see their strength of schedule for two things... one I would see the fantasy season strength of schedule and another I could see the strength of schedule for the playoffs. Perhaps I'll even use that for trade information later in the season. Would be helpful. Perhaps it would be nice to see that on a per league basis. In the scoring tab you'll have to indicate the number of teams and number of weeks and which weeks are the playoffs. Some have the championship week 17 while others have it week 16. That would then determine the strength of schedule to show for the playoffs... or enter a trade deadline factor that would be helpful to distinguish between the two instead.

The second addition I think would be helpful for those in keeper leagues is the Lewin Forecast for QBs, speed scores for RBs, and maybe the height and weight and BMI info if possible for the WR and ranked these positions somehow.

Another new thing I just hought of would be a new tab at the bottow just to view the Offensive Lines ranked.

All this contributes to better and quicker drafting decisions.

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33 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Sideline Sage // Jul 31, 2008 - 11:42am

I would like to echo an earlier comment to add strength of schedule. A page can be added showing each team's weekly schedule and whether it is a good/poor matchup versus run or pass. Or at least FO predictions for each defense versus run/pass.

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34 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Joe Pisarcik Magnate // Jul 31, 2008 - 2:50pm

I am in a Big Play League. Not sure if you can project this, but

Length of TD 0-9 6 Points
Length of TD 10-39 9 Points
Length of TD 40-110 12 Points

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35 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Joe Pisarcik Magnate // Aug 04, 2008 - 8:49am

I killed this thread, didn't I? I do that all the time at Baseball Primer, too.

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36 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by dryheat // Aug 06, 2008 - 8:53am

I think this thread is long dead, but if you're still monitoring this Aaron, I think Kubiak would be greatly enhanced with an option to weight the players for keeper leagues. For example, The top WRs available in my draft pool in Kubiak are Galloway, Engram, and Driver. They're followed by Roddy White and Brandon Marshall. I would think that in keeper formats, White and Marshall would be rated higher than the other three.

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37 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Matthew Greenhawt // Aug 20, 2008 - 2:41pm

Any update on the auction values? I have an auction draft this weekend and would greatly appreciate some guidance.

Many thanks!

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38 Re: Help Add to KUBIAK

by Pete // Aug 20, 2008 - 6:51pm

WARNING for Mac users of KUBIAK. You're gonna need to use Microsoft Office 2004 to use KUBIAK. If you go to the Office 2008 it will not work. VBA issues. See Wikipedia entry for it.

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