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Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

The New York Giants cleaned house Monday morning, firing head coach Ben McAdoo and general manager Jerry Reese.

McAdoo led the Giants to a playoff spot in his first season as head coach last year, but yesterday's loss to the Raiders dropped this version of the Giants to 2-10. That alone would be one thing, but a season of clubhouse drama, performances with dismal apparent effort, and the mishandling of Eli Manning's benching proved too much.

Reese had been with the Giants since 1994, starting as an area scout, and was the general manager for both Super Bowl champions, but last season was the only Giants' postseason appearance since that second title.

Defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo will serve as interim head coach.

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64 comments, Last at 06 Dec 2017, 9:56pm

1 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Why not do this before the game then re-instate Eli and let him continue his streak? Was ownership expecting a Geno Smith Christmas miracle?

8 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

I guess. But the better strategy would be to come in and rescue Eli and receive the love of the fans and potential free agents. The idea of Eli being toast was reinforced by the announced benching so letting him go in the off season was already easier and you can spin it as "Eli is being let go to allow him to continue his streak".

63 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese


Brady is, and has been for a while, the best QB in football.

Eli hasn't had a positive DVOA in 3 years.

Eli is a bad football player now. Eli has already declined significantly. The chances of him being out of football against his own will next year are relatively high.

Even if Brady turns into a pumpkin Monday night, and never has another good game, he'll still start games next year.

64 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Note that Eli has his starting job back.

I've never liked Eli Manning, but I recognize that he's not the worst part of the Giants. For him to disappear is only a Patriots fan's wet dream.

I would laugh if he came back and won a third SB against the Pats with a mediocre team, while hating the idea that he had yet another ring.

38 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

maybe, maYBE, MAYBE, MAYBE!!! you do it IF a clear cut once in generation quartervbacjk reveakls himself in December, multiple teams asre gunning for quarterbacks an d some may have same record as you or worse record . problem is Giants record is rpetty gosh darn awful already and there is no clear cut quatyerbacjk available. There are half dozen (Darnold, Jackson, Rudolph, Thorson, Rosen, Allen). None have revealed thesmleves to be clear next Hal;l; of Famer.

did Eags and Rams tank to get wentz and goff? No.
did tecans tank to get Watson? No.

do you have any real evidence of teams tnaking in NFL? I sure don't.

Clots didn't even tank to get a. Lick. go look. twem actually won 2 games late in season and at one time had same number of wins as Vukes (this only laste for less than a week but it is fact).

40 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

"do you have any real evidence of teams tnaking in NFL? I sure don't."


"The Tampa Bay Buccaneers tanked the final game of the 2014 season. Probably. They were leading 20-7 at halftime, when they pulled almost all of their starters (except for Josh McCown)."

49 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

not evidence of tankin gfor me. just look at the obvious. If team was intent on purposefully losing, no way would they evebn accidentally get ahead by 13 points. Frequent and normal occurrence for a team to bench sytarters and give playing time to backups in seson finale.

46 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

The problem with tanking is that the people who are in charge of tanking are the ones most likely to lose their jobs as a result. Also, I think the talent dropoff in the NBA is far more severe and predictable in the NBA than it is in the NFL.

It's too difficult to build a winning program in the NFL to waste time with losing deliberately. In contrast the NBA is much more of a plug-and-play league. The Celtics currently have the best record in the NBA with a team that is nearly entirely built by moves made in the past 18 months. You can't do that in the NFL.

55 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Big difference, though, between going into a season intending to tank like many NBA teams do, and tanking with 3 or 4 games to go when you are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs and likely to get a top 3 pick. I don't believe any NFL team goes into a season thinking "our goal is the #1 pick," for the reasons you mentioned.

On the other hand, it would be really dumb for the Giants to try to win any more games this year. Particularly when they have one quarterback on their roster who is remotely credible as a future asset, and starting him the rest of the way is probably their best shot at losing all four remaining games. Certainly lame duck Eli is the best QB of the 3 on their roster.

61 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Tabnking in NFL would involve odd out0-of-character play calling. like team with garbage running attack runs it almost entire gaem out of predictable running sets. 3rd and inches and it throws an out to receiver and ball just like happens, to like, sort of not be catchable. the whole roster wodl have to be in on it including the 15+ player swho want to play well and ghet it on film for when they try to hook on elsewhere 2 monhts later.


4 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Somehow over the course of a season the Giants franchise has become a dumpster fire. They were 11-5 last year and in the playoffs.

Recalling that they kicked Coughlin out because they thought that McAdoodoo had done a great job of getting the best out of Eli back circa 2014.

They didn't want anyone else to hire McAdoodoo as a HC and of course Coughlin's tenure was difficult to end because of those two Lombardi's even though he was generally average outside of them. I don't think they were wrong to get rid of Coughlin but it hasn't worked out for them in spectacularly bad fashion. Especially when you look at how Jacksonville are now doing.

19 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

I haven't been following the situation closely, but from a distance, McAdoo doesn't really SEEM like a head coach. He doesn't look in control. He doesn't sound like he's in control in press conferences. Maybe it's different if you're working with him. But what did he show that led the Giants to think he was HC material?

I look at a guy like Sean McVay, and he looks like a coach. He looks in control. From his first press conference, he looked and sounded like a guy you'd run through walls for.

33 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

We sometimes forget that NFL head coaches are, first and foremost, managers. Their primary responsibility to manage the personalities and responsibilities of 53 players and a dozen or two assistant coaches. And based on the locker room issues, especially on the defensive side of the ball, it seems pretty clear that McAdoo miserably failed at that aspect of the job. It doesn't matter how good you are schematically, you will fail if you don't have the ability to manage about six dozen employees.

37 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

I'd also add that there are different archetypes for a successful (and unsuccessful) manager. Alienating players (usually by treating them like college "students" instead of highly paid professionals) is the terrible coaching sin, but sometimes we see coaches get too close to the players, to the point where they aren't able to instill discipline as a result.

48 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

It wasn't over the course of a season. The 2016 Giants were much worse on offense then the 2015 Giants; they covered that up with also improving on defense. In 2017, the offense continued to decline, but the defense regressed rather than improved.

7 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Horrible coach. Miserable guy. Too much cocahspeak. No personality. Let Belchum Jr run amok And act like urinatugn dog and other weird crap. Never disciplined him.so then hwen he disciplined players later for lesser stuff it came off bad.

Reese another tool

10 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

How do Giants feel about Reese? He did a reasonably good job taking over for Accorsi. His free agent choices mostly worked out on defense a year ago. Yes he missed on drafting offensive linemen, but thats also happened to Jon Schnieder.

Also remember - Coughlin had missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons so he had to go. Going with Macadoo was defensible at the time.

This nightmare season to me speaks more of Macadoo's failing as a head coach than Reese.

23 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

But he also landed Odell and Landon Collins. Those are two elite players that few teams have landed. Yes they felt Reese needed to be fired, but that doesn't mean he should have been. I root for a team that fired Polian(who I was happy to see go) and replaced him with Grigson. Grass is not always greener

28 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

There were some hits (he'd have been gone long ago if he never hit any). But everyone gets a hit now and then.

2007- Good draft. No long-time studs, but many contributors who helped win the Super Bowl.
2008- Good pick with Phillips. OK one with Manningham. Thomas and Goff contributed. Pretty good draft.
2009- Only Nicks did anything as a pro, and he flamed out early.
2010- JPP was a hit. So was Linval Joseph. That's about it.
2011- Prince Amukamara was the best pick. No one else did anything.
2012- Best pick was Rueben Randle (although David Wilson gets an injury asterisk). Enough said.
2013- Pugh was a hit. So was Hankins. Not much else.
2014- Odell. Easily Reese's best pick. Richburg a hit. A few others are subpar starters or bench players now.
2015- Collins. 2nd best pick was Flowers, and that's a monumental miss of a top 10 pick. Awful draft, even considering getting Collins.
2016- Apple looks like a bust of another top 10 pick. Shepard looks like a hit. Three meh others.
2017- Engram looks like a player. Tomlinson is a hit. They won't even give Webb practice reps. The rest have been roster fillers so far.

So, we are looking at 3-4 studs, maybe a baker's dozen total above average or good players, over 11 drafts, with a few absolute whiffs when picking top-10. That's not a very good draft record, IMO.

29 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

This has to be compared with performance over average. It gets complicated because poor gms often get fired before they have had time to accrue as many picks.

I do happen to have a draft pick data set with expected value, but I'm at work so I won't be able to access it.

Even still, I feel like hes performed above average.

42 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Thanks, Rocco.

Here are two more links, both using AV, that together cover his tenure. They don't paint a picture of an above-average drafter.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-gm-reese-good-drafting-players-data-article-1.3085840 -- From 2017, using AV

Money quote:

"But those two thoughts aside, it does look like Reese has done an oh-so-slightly above average job of drafting over the last four seasons."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/10/29/new-york-giants-jerry-reese-ranks-among-the-worst-drafting-gms/#194dfa9f217d --From 2013, also using AV.

Money quote:

"According to AV, Reese doesn't fare particularly well. From 2007 to 2012, Reese's picks have amassed a total AV of 336, which is third-worst among the nine other longterm GMs and well below the league average 371. The average AV generated by a Reese draft pick is 7.3, fourth-worst among his peers and once again below the league average of 7.8."

By AVs, he's "every so slightly above average," over the four seasons heading into this one, with that propped up by the transcendent Beckham. And Apple looks a lot worse after this season than he did at the end of last season.

Further, as with any stat, there are limitations to AV-- a big one being that it does not consider resource allocation. It was clear heading into this season that the OL was a big question mark, yet he ignored it until the very end of the draft. It's been clear for years that opponents have been exploiting the atrocious LB unit, but he's refused to expend meaningful draft picks to sure it up.

And a big sink for many teams' in terms of the draft is struggling to get a good QB. They are so rare that teams "waste" top picks trying to get them. It may be inefficient from an AV perspective, but it's very rare to get a really good one without using a top pick, so teams are almost forced to "overspend" on QBs with top picks. But Reese never had to, due to Eli, who he inherited. And even with that, his record (at least per AV) has been below average.

And drafting is just one part of the job. The Giants have rarely been players in free agency over his tenure. He was pretty much forced into it last year-- and did well (until it became clear that some of last years' success was due to good fortune and it became clear that cap space was limiting for addressing gaping holes this year). As mentioned above, he has left several units badly undermanned and has not addressed them in a meaningful fashion.

Then there is the matter of record. Over time, I don't think you can get away from judging a GM by the record. 90-82 over his tenure, which is pretty mediocre. And, that's spotting him the head start he got with the roster he inherited (22-10 over the first two years, 40-24 over the first 4). Since then? 50-58, with all of two playoff appearances.

Then there is the question of if things are getting better or getting worse. And there is little reason to think things are getting better. The last five seasons have been 32-44 (so far), with the team outscored by 207 points. One playoff appearance, no playoff wins. The trend, as the roster became more and more "his", has been down.

And for those who want to blame Eli for that, well, Reese is the one who gave him the current contract. Want to blame coaching? The GM is responsible for the coaching staff.

I don't think there is a great case to make for Reese as an above average GM. I think there is a lot of evidence that he is a pretty poor one. But, YMMV. If you think he's a good one, I hope your team hires him one day. Just so long as you aren't a Giants fan, that is.

56 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Draft summary for Reese is he often drafted great players in the first round -- some of whom had very short careers because of injury -- but he failed to get useful players in the middle and later rounds. Increasingly he also seemed to overspend in free agency. Sometimes those landed very useful players -- they wouldn't have won the 2011 Super Bowl without Michael Bolley, David Baas, and Chris Canty -- but usually those were short-term fixes. Defensive success in 2016 followed by disaster in 2017 the most recent and probably extreme example.

57 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Draft summary for Reese is he often drafted great players in the first round -- some of whom had very short careers because of injury -- but he failed to get useful players in the middle and later rounds. Increasingly he also seemed to overspend in free agency. Sometimes those landed very useful players -- they wouldn't have won the 2011 Super Bowl without Michael Bolley, David Baas, and Chris Canty -- but usually those were short-term fixes. Defensive success in 2016 followed by disaster in 2017 the most recent and probably extreme example.

21 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

I would say that this season is equally on both of them. It was Reese's job to put competent players on the field, and he failed to do that. It was McAdoo's job to get the best performances out of those players, and he failed to do that.

I'm a big believer in process over results, and I think that's where the Giants have failed. They got results last year despite overwhelming evidence that the process was bad. Instead of trying to overhaul the roster, they signed up for another year of Eli-to-OBJ.

Reese's failure isn't about the individual players on this year's Giants roster. His failure is that he either didn't stock up on talent over the years, believed that his players were more talented than they've proven to be, and ignored the gaps he saw.

It's for this reason that I'm glad SF gave Lynch and Shanahan five-year contracts. It shows that they want to build a process for sustained success, rather than fluking their way into a couple of playoff runs. You'd rather emulate the Patriots or Steelers than the Giants or Colts.

24 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

The Giants have talent. I put the malaise primarily on Mcadoo and Eli's decline / o line failure. The latter is squarely on him, but he tried to fix it and failed.

Look over the giants roster - they have talent on defense. Reese tried to build a good roster. It failed. This wasn't signing Revis to a bajillion dollars when hes on the obvious decline.

26 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

They spent a ton of money on the defense like the Jets did in 2015. It worked for the Jets for one year as well, even though they missed the playoffs. They probably overspent on Damon Harrison at least (he's only a run stopper; the Jets were able to replace him with a much more cost-effective Steve McClendon). They do have talent on defense, but the spending spree in 2016 prevented spending on the offensive line last year when the options in the draft were slim to none. At least they could have signed Beachum at tackle instead of spending money on Brandon Marshall; Beachum has been only ok, but he's kept Josh McCown from getting killed, unlike Ereck Flowers.

30 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Sure, but he must have thought that flowers and pugh along with richburg would solidify the offensive line. Its just been a disaster.

I think with better coaching, you will get a big boost from the talent on this roster. This season's disaster feels like its all on the head coach.

53 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

I think the 2017 Giants are the latest example that if you cannot put a mediocre offensive line together you cannot win. Period. If you assembled a team with Tom Brady at QB, with Eric Dickerson and Walter Payton behind him, Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin out wide, and Tony Gonzalez at Tight End, behind a middle-of-the-road MAC quality O-line, you cannot be successful. It was evident early on, and I mean by the second game, that the Giants could not win as presently constructed. That's on Reese. The fact that McAdoo looks like the head of mall security and doesn't appear to have the respect of his players is the failing of McAdoo, but more so the man who hired him for the job.

17 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Pretty sure McAdoo and Reese needed to be fired, but the way this played out, ugh. Mara decided he was fine with benching Eli before he was against it. That whole idea played up by the media that Darnold and Rosen would balk at going to Cleveland and force a trade to the Giants.... well, that's out of the window now.

34 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Is Gettleman still available after the Panthers got rid of him in July?

Think he was at the Giants before going to Carolina as their GM. That would be an easy, familiar move to make. As I understand it he generally did a good job of roster building in Carolina but was poor at the man-management.

35 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Word is coming out that Eli is the starter again next week against Dallas. So all this drama was for nothing, they're not even going to try out the third-round rookie.

43 Reese is very good

Not typically one for schadenfreude, but pro football and NY sports are both exceptions. This should be very very fun to watch for the next five to 15 years. Good job sacking a talented executive to protect the frail legacy of Eli Manning.

44 Re: Reese is very good

The Maras had hinted strongly that McAdoo and Reese were on their way out at the end of the season. All the Manning fiasco did was accelerate that by four weeks.

47 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

Is this an attractive HC job?
No QB, No O-line, No linebackers, and with OBJ, Richburg & Pugh to re-sign, no real cap room either. Against that, it's historically a functional organisation, there's talent on the Defense, it's New York, and the draft picks going to be top-5.
I'd imagine someone's going to to want a assurances that one and done isn't on the cards (Full Kotite excepted)

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

54 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

I think most of the cons you listed are not as bad as they seem.

Cap space can be freed with cuts, esp if they move on from Eli (yes, there is dead money, but still a lower cap number). Might take a year to get in great cap shape, but it shouldn't be too horrid next year.

Jones has been fine at C, making Richburg a lower priority. The OL as a whole looks a lot different with just two additions- perhaps one by draft and one by FA.

You may have a QB now (Webb) and if not, you will get one of the top 2 or 3 this draft-- and at a reasonable cap number.

Signing OBJ clearly needs to be done, but can be done (or the tag can be used to buy time to better cap condition).

The O as a whole should be upgraded just by having a better offensive scheme. The current one is horrid. Baldinger has many tweets on the subject, but here are a few vids showing scheme issues:

Frankly, moving on from Spags on defense will also help. Two of the past three years the D has been horrid, as his was in LA. There are scheme issues with it as well (it never matches up well vs. trips, for example).

There are real issues with the team, but most of them are fixable by the right people without a complete, lengthy rebuild.

50 Re: Giants Fire HC McAdoo, GM Reese

I think this was the right decision. I also think 2016 was a bit of fool's gold, as they won with an unsustainable formula (lots of big plays on defense covering up a bad offense, led by a QB who was way past his prime). This year the big plays weren't there, and the castles made of sand melted into the sea. To put it more simply, last year was the outlier, and this year was the regression.

Of course, firing the coach and the GM is just a start. They need to overhaul pretty much the whole roster. There are a few valuable pieces (Beckham, Collins, Engram, Jenkins, etc.), but overall, this is a team with significantly less talent than their division rivals, not only in Philadelphia, but in Dallas, and maybe even in Washington (although the Redskins' handling of Cousins will likely ruin their future prospects).