Extra Points

News and commentary from around the Web

NFL Trade Deadline Thread

Hey, it's the NFL trade deadline today. And some big trades are getting made. We'll catalog them here and let the readers discuss.

Denver traded Demaryius Thomas to Houston for a fourth-round pick and a swap of seventh-round picks.

Detroit traded Golden Tate to Philadelphia for a third-round pick.

Green Bay traded Ty Montgomery to Baltimore for a 2020 seventh-round pick.

Jacksonville traded Dante Fowler to the Los Angeles Rams for 2019 third-round pick and 2020 fifth-round pick.

In a real stunner, Green Bay traded safety Ha Ha Clinton-Dix to Washington for a fourth-round pick. Clinton-Dix has started every game for the Packers since 2015. (UPDATE: Compensation is in. Green Bay will get Washington's 2019 fourth-round pick.)

Comments

68 comments, Last at 31 Oct 2018, 6:47pm

1 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:12pm

Detroit's selling? That surprises me. Yes, they're now below 500 and fourth in their division, but they're also only one game behind the first place team in their division. EDIT: one and a half games, I guess, since the Vikings haven't had their bye yet and have one more win and one more tie than Detroit, who has had their bye.

I guess Patricia's secure enough in the new job to be worried more about 2019 than 2018.

Login or Register to post comments

2 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Cythammer // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:15pm

Huh, little surprised to see the Lions trading away an asset, at least on first blush. They are only one game out first in their division. DVOA says they are terrible and I expect their chances of making the playoffs are quite low, but usually teams won't punt on a season unless they are totally out of it. I think it's probably a wise move, but I bet plenty of fans will hate it.

Also, seeing what Golden Tate and Demaryius Thomas garnered only makes the Cowboys' trade for Amari Cooper look even worse.

Login or Register to post comments

3 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Raiderfan // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:18pm

Not for the Raiders. :)

Login or Register to post comments

4 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Mr Shush // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:24pm

Tate's a free agent at the end of the season; Cooper and Thomas have similar contact situations (cheap this year - very cheap in Cooper's case - c.$14m next, FA in 2020) but I can imagine keeping Cooper at that number is a lot more appealing than doing the same for Thomas; the Cowboys might also just want to use it as leverage in negotiating a new deal, whereas Thomas is probably just a rental while Fuller is hurt.

Login or Register to post comments

15 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Bright Blue Shorts // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:05pm

From when I last looked at WR salaries, $14M will probably make him about 5th best paid in the league behind the Odell Beckham, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown types. (And probably Dez Bryant).

That's expensive for the position for an inconsistent player. Certainly he has talent but New England will probably be pay two guys like Edelman and Hogan that sort of money and getting a lot better production.

I guess different teams have different cap / payroll strategies but it's no surprise to me that JJ will pay for the shiny hood ornament.

Login or Register to post comments

39 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by The Powers That Be // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:52pm

Cooper is also 24, while the others are in their 30s. That doesn't justify a 1st, but it does justify a higher pick.

Login or Register to post comments

5 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by DrunkenOne // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:35pm

WR is by far the deepest position for the Lions, and they only had another 8 games of Tate. While the division is still relatively competitive, realistically they aren't a playoff team. With their young skill players and a few more years before Stafford declines, it makes sense to get more ammo for the draft imo. Really like the move.

Login or Register to post comments

10 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:49pm

But why then trade a 5th round pick for a 30 year old nose tackle, with a 7 million cap number next year, or 3.2 million in dead cap?

Login or Register to post comments

19 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by DrunkenOne // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:20pm

I'd imagine because he will still be there whereas Tate won't, and they don't have an issue with WR talent but they cant stop the run.

Login or Register to post comments

25 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:40pm

I'm no expert on the guy, but making wagers like that on 30 year olds seems to have limited upside.

Login or Register to post comments

57 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by LionInAZ // Oct 30, 2018 - 10:51pm

Tate is 30 yrs old too.

Login or Register to post comments

59 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 31, 2018 - 1:45am

That's the contrast that mildly surprised me. One 30 year old traded for, then another 30 year old discarded.

Login or Register to post comments

60 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Alternator // Oct 31, 2018 - 2:42am

A nose tackle can last longer than a speedy wide receiver; Vince Wilfork, for a recent example, retired at 35 and was still effective.

Login or Register to post comments

65 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Richie // Oct 31, 2018 - 3:54pm

It's not a perfect comparison, but from 2014-2018 there are:

21 defensive tackles who have 5+ sacks in that time span after turning 30: http://pfref.com/tiny/h4thP

27 Wide receivers who have 5+ touchdowns in that time span after turning 30: http://pfref.com/tiny/g62Zu

Though if you go with QB Hits instead of sacks, you can get 42 DT: http://pfref.com/tiny/8EHfS

Login or Register to post comments

7 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by BJR // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:45pm

Tate has been a solid player for the Lions, but it's probably easy to overrate him based on his traditional stats, given he catches a lot of balls. DYAR is lukewarm on him, and ranks Kenny Golladay, on his rookie contract, significantly better this season.

Login or Register to post comments

20 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:25pm

He's not.

Efficiency be damned, a reliable short completion is better than the alternative, which is an incompletion or a sack.

Login or Register to post comments

62 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by BJR // Oct 31, 2018 - 9:56am

Sure. DYAR is certainly not the be-all-and-end-all, especially when it comes to skill positions. I'm happy to defer to Lions fans, who have watched a lot more of Tate than I have. Just trying to look objectively for reasons why the Lions had no interest in extending him.

Login or Register to post comments

8 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Jose21crisis // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:48pm

I think the Lions are not done yet. They restructured Marvin Jones contract. They could be gearing up to make another move.

Login or Register to post comments

9 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by kingusc49 // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:48pm

Couldn't agree more. The NFL trade market is clearly not well developed. We've seen Gordon, Tate, Cooper and Thomas traded for such disparate values. And while there are certainly different contract scenarios and intangible/off the field issues involved for each of them, an organization ahead of the curve could sure do a number on the competition in this market.

Login or Register to post comments

14 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by BJR // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:00pm

The critical factor to doing a number on the competition in this example appears to be, 'negotiate against Jerry Jones'.

Login or Register to post comments

22 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by ChrisS // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:32pm

I'm on the fence with this. Tate has been a very good WR for the Lions, one of their best FA signings and one of the best players on the team. This year he seems a bit worse but I still think he is good receiver, but maybe the staff is seeing more of a decline and the slot position he fills seems easier to fill than the Jones or Golliday rolls. Does anyone know what sort of compensatory pick they would have got if they kept him to the end of the season? Hopefully they use the pick to shore up the terrible terrible defense.

Login or Register to post comments

35 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:30pm

They would have gotten a 4th as compensation. However they are flush with cap space next year, so if they’re active in free agency they would have gotten nothing.

My heart hates trading away Tate because he was a reliable and productive player with unimpeachable work ethic, never complained, and really engaged with the community.

But my head says that the front office was smart in seeing that they were never close to being a contender this year, and saw an opportunity to get a 3rd rounder for someone on the wrong side of 30 that they were going to lose next year anyway. Yes, Snacks is 30 too, but 30 for run-stopping DT (on a reasonable contract is much different than 30 for a WR.

Login or Register to post comments

38 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by justanothersteve // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:46pm

I'm happy about this because Tate has been a thorn for the Packers going back to his days in Seattle (even taking out the Fail Mary). He's not HoF, but he's definitely Hall of Very Good. He's tough to cover in single coverage, runs great routes, and is one of the best at finding holes in zone coverage. He's also smart about avoiding big hits, so he's stayed reasonably healthy through his career. I think he's got at least another 3 years worth of decent career left after this year.

Login or Register to post comments

58 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by LionInAZ // Oct 30, 2018 - 10:54pm

Maybe they can maneuver to get Suh back, an even bigger thorn in the side of the Packers, hee hee hee.

Login or Register to post comments

61 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Oct 31, 2018 - 8:11am

If the Lions didn't have the roster to be a contender, why did they fire Caldwell for not contending?

Login or Register to post comments

64 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by LionInAZ // Oct 31, 2018 - 3:51pm

Either felt that Caldwell had reached his ceiling, or Quinn really wanted the fat boy.

Login or Register to post comments

6 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Jose21crisis // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:42pm

So, Demaryius got traded to the Texans. That should help their WR corps a bit. The Texans will be facing ... the Denver Broncos. SO we quickly got a D.Thomas revenge game here.

Login or Register to post comments

47 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:42pm

I don't know what to think about this trade. Why are they so eager to get rid of him? I guess I don't need to continually look up how to spell his name any more..

Login or Register to post comments

52 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by TimK // Oct 30, 2018 - 7:22pm

I think it is a case of Broncos finally seems to have several options for 3rd/4th WR and Thomas is too expensive next year, so it would either be an awkward renegotiation or cutting him with no recompense. Whereas trading him to a team that needs a WR gets something, and they can find out if Sutton, Patrick etc really have what it takes. Of course if Saunders is hurt after leaving the game last week that leaves them very thin at WR.

Thomas seems to have lost a bit of top end speed, and is still dropping passes more than you'd like. He's been a good team player, and it seems to be very much a business decision than anything personal.

Broncos seem to me to be a better team than last year, but in a division with one excellent team (Chiefs) and another good team (Chargers) so better to save up a bit this year for next year perhaps.

Login or Register to post comments

56 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Oct 30, 2018 - 9:37pm

Yeah, it makes sense, it's just surprising to see him gone! I can't think of the last Broncos game without him.

ETA: That's because he hasn't missed a game since 2011!

Login or Register to post comments

63 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by TimK // Oct 31, 2018 - 12:23pm

Yes, he was the longest tenured Bronco, and has been a good pro for all of it as far as I can remember. Sorry to see him go, but I suspect there will be increasingly fewer one-team players as teams look for the market efficiencies. Apparently the Broncos might give him some kind of official farewell this week as he is coming straight back to town to play them with the Texans (which is kind of nice, but probably be a little strange too).

Many years ago (mid-late 90s) the Broncos were suggesting that there should be some kind of salary cap modifier to give some benefit to teams keeping players. I find myself wondering if that might not be a good idea (if only for fans rooting for local favourites and long term roster stalwarts) if something could apply to players earning less than a certain amount. Say a 10% cap exemption for players after who have been at a team for 5+ years and are earning less than a certain multiple of the league minimum. It would likely help veterans who know systems stay around and make it viable to keep the mentor type players and reduce a bit of roster churn, but wouldn’t unbalance things by giving discount for the star players or top free agent targets. If it kept mid tier OL together in the same system for longer that might help the quality of play too perhaps?

Login or Register to post comments

68 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Bright Blue Shorts // Oct 31, 2018 - 6:47pm

It seems to me that the league's competitive balance is at its best without teams being able to retain players.

Anyway as I recall the mid-late 90s Broncos came up with their own salary cap modifier ...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/14/revisiting-denvers-cap-...

Login or Register to post comments

11 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Jose21crisis // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:54pm

The Seahawks released Brandon Marshall. Guy simply can't stay on a single team.

Login or Register to post comments

12 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by billprudden // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:57pm

Raiders trade all 5 #1s for Aaron Rodgers! You heard it here first!

(watches clock until 4pm...)

Login or Register to post comments

13 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 2:59pm

Either Rodgers or Matt Flynn......

Login or Register to post comments

17 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by billprudden // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:06pm

In all fairness, Flynn did have that one really good game!

Login or Register to post comments

67 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Richie // Oct 31, 2018 - 3:58pm

How many #1's (within the next 2 drafts) would a team have to offer before the Packers say yes?

Login or Register to post comments

16 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Biebs // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:06pm

I like Eagles trade for Tate. They are up against the cap next year, so if they lose him, they are likely to get some Free Agent compensation when another team signs him. So it's a 3rd in 2019 for Tate and maybe a 4th or 5th in 2020.

Login or Register to post comments

18 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Jose21crisis // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:20pm

Remember that guy that fumbled away the Packers chance to upset the Rams? Ty Montgomery? He could be going to Baltimore. That's probably the reason why he wasn't outright cut.

EDIT: How pissed was the Green Bay's FO? They received a 2020 7th rounder to get Montgomery as far away as possible.

Login or Register to post comments

23 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by justanothersteve // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:32pm

I'm happy they got anything. He's on the last year of his rookie deal. Rumors were they were holding onto Montgomery until it would be too late for Belichick to claim him prior to this weekend's game against NE.

Login or Register to post comments

21 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:30pm

Lauletta just got himself arrested, so it looks like Eli's job safety is on the rise.

Login or Register to post comments

24 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Tim R // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:39pm

So 2 qbs in 2 weeks have gotten themselves arrested right before potentially getting a starting shot? Peoples stupidity continues to suprise me.

Login or Register to post comments

26 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:42pm

And quarterbacks are supposed to be the smart ones!

Login or Register to post comments

66 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Richie // Oct 31, 2018 - 3:58pm

Not as smart Tackles and Centers!

"According to Paul Zimmerman's The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football, the average score of a NFL player according to position is the following:

Offensive tackle – 26.
Center – 25.
Quarterback – 24.
Guard – 23.
Tight end – 22.
Safety – 19.
Linebacker – 19.
Cornerback – 18."

Login or Register to post comments

27 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Jose21crisis // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:47pm

The Packers are selling apparently. Ha-Ha Clinton Dix is a Redskin.

Login or Register to post comments

29 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Boots Day // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:59pm

I had to double-check the standings - the Packers are just a half game out of first place. Why are they selling?

Login or Register to post comments

32 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:14pm

They obviously decided that they had no interest in him on his 2nd contract, and didn't want to wait until 2020 for a compensatory pick. That said, I'd also guess that they didn't like what they saw in his weekly preparation, and his tackles are way down. They probably don't think the fall off to the next guy will be that large.

Dix gets a chance to play well in his remaining games this season, and then become a free agent, so not a bad deal for him.

Login or Register to post comments

42 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Dan // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:10pm

PFF has been high on Clinton-Dix's play this season. I'm surprised that they could only get a 4th.

Login or Register to post comments

45 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:16pm

I never know what to make of PFF grades. It is kind of weird that Dix's tackles are on pace to be down about 50% from his career average, but I suppose there could be schematc reasons for it. I also suppose his free agency in 4 months also weakened the market for him.

Login or Register to post comments

48 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by ChrisLong // Oct 30, 2018 - 6:00pm

HHCD has been better this year than last year, but his Pro Bowl year of 2016 seems much longer ago. He **repeatedly** has gotten sucked out of the middle of the field chasing ghosts in goal-to-go situations, at least 3 TDs have been scored on the Packers due to this mental failure. Each time the DB left out to dry reacts in disgust because they were expecting HHCD as middle help.

He is mediocre to bad from play to play in man coverage and only average as a single high safety. The only question is the difference between him and Brice/Whitehead/Jones a deal breaker, and obviously they decided it wasn't.

Login or Register to post comments

53 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by big10freak // Oct 30, 2018 - 7:23pm

I appreciate what the guy has done as a Packer, but that assessment is absurd. HHCD is not keen on contact, has been poor in coverage since 2016 and is clearly unhappy.

Something is really wrong in GB. Used to be that the organization could develop guys and guys were thrilled to be in green and gold. Now there are multiple instances of guys underperforming after positive starts to their career.

Login or Register to post comments

54 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Oct 30, 2018 - 9:13pm

They did have a phenomenal run of "next man up" success -- they way they rotated their WR corps from Donald Driver to Greg Jennings to Jordy Nelson and now Davonte Adams is remarkable! -- but all things end eventually. I remember when the Colts just didn't miss on first round picks of offensive players, until Anthony Gonzalez, who was solid for a few years but never a star or anything. Likewise, the Packers run may be ending with more of a whimper than a spectacular explosion, and that's a good thing.

Login or Register to post comments

31 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by billprudden // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:12pm

Danny can smell that hosted playoff game.

Login or Register to post comments

55 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Oct 30, 2018 - 9:14pm

9-7 division champs baby!

Login or Register to post comments

28 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Tim R // Oct 30, 2018 - 3:57pm

Is dante fowler any good? Haven't seen much of him since he was drafted.

Login or Register to post comments

30 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by billprudden // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:11pm

How good could you or I be rushing around the top with Donald and Suh and Brockers crushing the pocket?

Login or Register to post comments

33 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Tim R // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:14pm

I mean im quite old and fat. But point taken.

Login or Register to post comments

36 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:33pm

The good news is that neither your elderly status or excess adipose tissue is a barrier to being offered a lucrative contract by Danny Snyder!

Login or Register to post comments

41 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Tim R // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:04pm

Excellent. I'll expect my haynesworth contract offer shortly.

Login or Register to post comments

43 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Will Allen // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:11pm

Go knock your neighbor down and step on his face!

Login or Register to post comments

49 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Tim R // Oct 30, 2018 - 6:01pm

Ha!

Login or Register to post comments

37 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Raiderjoe // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:39pm

if in designated pass rusher role, whcih am assumign will be case in L.a., then fowler can be veyr good. has very good pass rushing technique. now, if healthy, if cannot produce in l.a, then never will produce anywhere because with those guys in the middl;e, he shoudl be productive. this situation will be as good as it gets for Fowler. excllent coaching and quality help on that line.

Fowler to rams tremendous move on paper anyway. we shall see hwo it turns out

if was Ramms fan, would drink in celebration of thsi move. would probably drink tongith an yway as taking kid trick or treating. have a little whisky in my cup with iced tea or soemtghing

Login or Register to post comments

40 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Tim R // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:02pm

Thanks Joe

Login or Register to post comments

34 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Jose21crisis // Oct 30, 2018 - 4:20pm

The Steelers didn't trade for a CB and the fan base is in panic.

Login or Register to post comments

44 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by yavimaya_eldred // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:12pm

The Packers trading Dix is perplexing. While I'm not a fan of him in general and he was straight up terrible for the previous season and a half, he was playing decently this season and is the only safety on the roster who isn't awful. There's been speculation that Tramon Williams will move back to safety to fill in, and that makes some sense because the team is fairly deep at corner, but Williams should have already been playing safety over Kentrell Brice, who has to be the worst coverage safety in football. Now they have one (presumably) okay safety and a bunch of guys who should never be asked to drop back in deep coverage. I assume their season is functionally over after they lose to the Patriots next week but it's still odd to see a give-up move like this with Rodgers' window getting smaller.

Trading Montgomery made sense, I like him as a player but the coaching staff was too stubborn to use him properly.

Login or Register to post comments

46 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by billprudden // Oct 30, 2018 - 5:23pm

I'll pile on to your questioning of this trade. Given the "safety" aspect of the FS position - always defending the deep pass and tackling the break-away runner - every time the Packers suffer a big play for the rest of the year the fans, and possibly the drama-QB, are gonna go "Ha-Ha would'a made that play". And it may or may not be true, but given the dynamics there right now, it is gonna feel true...

Login or Register to post comments

50 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by ChrisLong // Oct 30, 2018 - 6:06pm

HHCD was playing better this season, but still not well. Goalline plays especially exposed his lack of agility and mental mistakes, and he was a liability down there. 3 or 4 TDs this season are directly attributable to HHCD mistakes or lack of agility. Watch him get beat by Josh Reynolds in the LAR highlights and you'll see how he is stiff in close quarters. He is average as a single high safety, better than the other guys on the roster but I don't think it will make a huge difference to the Packers going forward.

Login or Register to post comments

51 Re: NFL Trade Deadline Thread

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Oct 30, 2018 - 6:11pm

The other disconcerting thing about the trade, that McCarthy may not yet have come to grips with, is that from now on, when he hears the fans "ha ha"'ing, he's going to realize they actually are laughing at him, not chanting for his star safety.

Login or Register to post comments