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Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

Since Peter King left for NBC, MMQB has been passing around the weekly Monday morning column, and Robert Klemko takes it this week. He's got a lot of interesting discussion with a group of cornerbacks who Richard Sherman gathered at Stanford this offseason to work out together and share notes on opposing receivers. Klemko speaks to Sherman, Aqib Talib, and Malcolm Butler about their moves to new teams and how they might fit into those schemes. Also lots of good info in here from our partners at Sports Info Solutions. You'll find more of the SIS charting data on these players (plus A.J. Bouye) in this Twitter thread, and of course there will be data on all starting cornerbacks in the upcoming Football Outsiders Almanac 2018.

Comments

27 comments, Last at 23 Jul 2018, 10:38am

3 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by jtr // Jul 18, 2018 - 3:27pm

Speaking of cornerbacks, Darrelle Revis retired today. I have to admit, it took me a minute after hearing the news to remember that he'd played a few forgettable games for KC last year.

Revis is one of the very best defenders of the last decade. The Jets in Revis' peak were a consistently dominant defense, and in particular the 2009 Jets were one of the best of the last 20 years. Quick, name the best non-Revis defender of that Jets era. Antonio Cromartie? Bart Scott? Mo Wilkerson? Sione Pouha? There's no obvious answer, because Revis was the only really great player on those teams. Out of the really dominant defensive seasons of the past 20 years (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Seattle, and Denver, too lazy to look up the exact years), the 2009 Jets are the only team to have only one star defender. Revis' ability to completely shut down the opposing number 1 receiver was like having an extra defender on the field; the deep safety could focus exclusively the non-Revis side of the field, helping out the opposite corner while freeing up a defender for Rex Ryan's wild blitz packages.

It's a shame that he lost two prime years of his career to an ACL tear and a lost season with the Greg Schiano Bucs, or he would have gone down as an even more dominant player. Still, he should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

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4 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Raiderjoe // Jul 18, 2018 - 3:36pm

2nd bWest was probablty K. Jenkins. got injured several times with NYJ though. do recall Jenkins dominant in 2008 (b. favre year) btu believe he didn't complete seaosn. jets did falll apart end of that seaosn.

Then Revis evben better the next season. Team bhad new head coach and some new guys on deefnse. one of besrt seasons ever from a CB.

Some of truly gerat CB campaigns--- D. Sanders 1994, Revis 2009, C. Woodson 2009, Haynes 1983 (abbreviated with Raiders btu look at raiders staTS before and after M. Haynes arrival that season) , Hayes 1980, and some others.

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26 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by bachslunch // Jul 22, 2018 - 8:48am

Agreed, Darrelle Revis is a no-brainer HoFer. He likely will be first ballot, though he’ll have some first time competition from folks like Joe Thomas.

He likely also belongs on a short list of greatest pure cover cornerbacks in NFL history, along with Jim Johnson, Deion Sanders, Mike Haynes, Roger Wehrli, and Albert Lewis. The bump and run best would likely include Dick Lane, Willie Brown, and Mel Blount.

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27 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Hoodie_Sleeves // Jul 23, 2018 - 10:38am

Revis should be a first ballot hall of famer, but calling the Jets defense consistently dominant is a bit absurd. They were fantastic in 2009, yes. But they essentially had a 3 year period where they were in the top 5 in the league. In 2008 they were average, and by 2012 they were back to average again.

And a large part of that time period was Revis still being relatively cheap, and the Jets spending a shitload of money in free agency when Rex showed up - and blowing up their cap.

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1 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by jtr // Jul 18, 2018 - 2:58pm

>[Kirk Cousins now has] a pair of stud receivers, something he never sniffed in Washington

It was only two years ago that he was throwing to DeSean Jackson and Pierre Garcon. He had the two of them plus Jordan Reed for several years, and it was routinely praised as one of the best sets of weapons in the game. Last year he was reduced to making the best out of a pesky slot receiver and somehow-not-retired Vernon Davis, but in the years prior he was not suffering for lack of help in the passing game.

>Casey Schwab of the NFLPA makes a great point to legislators about the consequences for players’ lives when sports gambling proliferates. Sadly, that point will probably be ignored. He argues that the vitriol and harassment that players endure with failures on the field will intensify when more fans can bet on games. That’s probably true, but drumming up public sympathy for NFL players will always be an uphill battle.

I'm sick of this kind of bellyaching by the NFL. A big part of the NFL's success over the years has been due to gambling, and they know it. They've always publicly kept Vegas at arms length for reasons of propriety, but that doesn't stop them from taking Draftkings' advertising money or telling Al Michaels to stop mentioning the point spread. And now they're straight-up moving a team to Las Vegas, with the funding effort led by a casino magnate! You know they're thrilled to get more eyes on the games as gambling expands to New Jersey and elsewhere. So knock it off with the phony outrage of how it will devastate the game and the players.

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2 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Jul 18, 2018 - 3:19pm

Definitely gambling's fault.

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5 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Bright Blue Shorts // Jul 18, 2018 - 5:05pm

">Casey Schwab of the NFLPA makes a great point to legislators about the consequences for players’ lives when sports gambling proliferates. Sadly, that point will probably be ignored. He argues that the vitriol and harassment that players endure with failures on the field will intensify when more fans can bet on games. That’s probably true, but drumming up public sympathy for NFL players will always be an uphill battle."

Outside of the United States people have gambled on sports for years. I struggle to think of any occasion where an individual has seen his life ripped apart by the consequences of screwing up in a game. Other than where fixers were involved.

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9 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by apk3000 // Jul 19, 2018 - 7:14am

> I struggle to think of any occasion where an individual has seen his life ripped apart by the consequences of screwing up in a game.

There was that Colombian soccer player who was murdered for an own goal. I don't remember if gambling was directly involved.

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10 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Theo // Jul 19, 2018 - 8:07am

There was also this case of a guy who did a thing with a thing but I also do not know if this is related to what we are talking about.

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11 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Raiderjoe // Jul 19, 2018 - 10:57am

Odell Belchum Jr did a thign with a thing

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19 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Jul 19, 2018 - 11:09pm

Who can say they haven't, at one time or another?

Hahahah odell belchum

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14 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by ChrisS // Jul 19, 2018 - 1:35pm

wikipedia (for what that's worth) reports that gambling was involved "Humberto Castro Muñoz, a bodyguard for members of a powerful Colombian drug cartel ... confessing the next day to the killing of Escobar. Muñoz also worked as a driver for Santiago Gallón, who had allegedly lost heavily betting on the outcome of the game"

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17 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Theo // Jul 19, 2018 - 8:41pm

"for what that's worth".
Why did you add this qualifier?

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18 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by ChrisS // Jul 19, 2018 - 10:22pm

Some people are skeptical of it as a definitive source of truth. So believe it or not as your prejudices allow

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20 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Theo // Jul 20, 2018 - 12:42pm

I am lost on this one.
It is the best we have got. Source driven, peer reviewed...

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21 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Bright Blue Shorts // Jul 20, 2018 - 1:41pm

I actually happened to watch this video last night (before reading this thread).

Appears wikipedia was very crappy in the early days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPa0vxC6NA0

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25 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Theo // Jul 21, 2018 - 2:38pm

So was electricity.

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22 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by ChrisS // Jul 20, 2018 - 9:36pm

I have no problem with it, however it is a secondary source and it is usually better to cite the original source.

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24 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Jul 21, 2018 - 11:30am

Well technically Wikipedia is a tertiary source, as it cites secondary sources (primary sources are discouraged, for good reason). If you wanted to get technical about it..

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23 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by ChrisS // Jul 20, 2018 - 9:39pm

duplicate

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6 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Jimmy Oz // Jul 18, 2018 - 7:08pm

The rest of the world survives with legalised internet gambling. I think the worry is match-fixing more than anything else, but it's hard to match fix when you've got 50 odd players seeing significant game time.

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8 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Bright Blue Shorts // Jul 19, 2018 - 4:30am

Yep - spot fixing is more of a problem. Soccer had a spate of players kicking the ball out for a throw-in in the first minute to win those sort of bets. Doesn't affect the match outcome but the fixers win.

Most gambling is monitored by the police/authorities for irregular patterns of betting to see this. They have special units set up for this. Or at least they claim to have.

NFL players earn very good money these days, so match fixing isn't as likely to be worth it even if you could pay all of the Browns to go 0-16 again.

Referees would be the most likely target. Relatively easy to throw a flag for holding or pass-interference at the right time and wipe out a score.

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12 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Will Allen // Jul 19, 2018 - 11:24am

Yeah, they really need the refs to be full time employees, need them to be paid more, and face a full financial audit annually.

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13 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by jtr // Jul 19, 2018 - 11:32am

It really is crazy that they don't pay the referees enough to make them full-time. There are seven referees on a crew, which means that paying a whole crew $100K each would cost about the same as the minimum salary for a player with 3 years service time (which is $705K). There's sixteen total crews. They could have the entire NFL referee pool on full-time salary for about the same amount as the AFC spends on long-snappers. It's foolish for the league not to pay that just as insurance against accusations of impropriety by the refs. These guys should be able to spend their offseasons studying the rule changes and game tape, not coaching college basketball to make ends meet.

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16 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by Bright Blue Shorts // Jul 19, 2018 - 3:06pm

Now here's an interesting Google ...

"In 2011, the average base pay for NFL referees was $149,000, according to CNN and CBS Sports. First-year officials earned $75,000 per 16-game season, while the most senior game officials made $160,000 a year. The 2012 agreement increased the base pay for rookie referees to $78,000 and veteran officials' pay to $200,000 starting in the 2013 season. Officials for the 2019 season will receive an average base pay of $203,000."

https://bizfluent.com/info-8484787-much-nfl-referees-make-year.html

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15 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by ChrisS // Jul 19, 2018 - 1:44pm

We must have a different definition of "stud receiver". Jackson has been on 1 all-pro team, Garcon has been on none, Jordan Reed has never started more than 9 games in a season (more than 5 games only twice). I think all 3 are competent players and would be starters or major contributors on almost all teams.

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7 Re: Richard Sherman's Cornerback Summit

by GwillyGecko // Jul 18, 2018 - 9:28pm

kris jenkins )2007-2008)
shaun ellis(2009-2010)
mo wilkerson (2011-)

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