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Cam Newton to IR; What's His Future in Carolina?

The Panthers put Cam Newton on IR today, as he just has never been able to recover from the Lis Franc injury suffered against the Patriots in the preseason. Kyle Allen will remain their starting quarterback for the rest of the year. A lot of talk about whether this is the end for Cam in Carolina. 2020 is the final year of his current contract, and the Panthers could be rid of $19.1 million of a $21.1 million cap hit if they cut or trade Newton. What I don't think makes sense is limping along with Newton as the starter in 2020 in the last year of his deal. Either decide he's your quarterback long-term, or try to trade him to a team that will sign him long-term.

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33 comments, Last at 11 Nov 2019, 1:00pm

1 Possibilitirs

Possivle places for Newton in 2020-
Washington
Chicago
Carolina
Tampa Bay
Miami
Cincinnati
Tennessee
Denver

Depends on cap issues and sny other possible big injuries bur he probably going to ovne of thosr teams. Washington new hwad cosch so Haskins cpuld ve one ywar and out like zkosh rosen in Arizona.

2 Insane to get rid of him. He…

Insane to get rid of him. He's been great when he hasn't been injured. He's only 30. Heal him up. He's got a lot of good years left in him. Allen isn't the answer.

8 Given his size, and the way…

Given his size, and the way running has always been an important element to his value? Very, very, problematic. I can't believe somebody sold him on  vegan diet with that injury. Ugh.

16 Stephen Peterman once played…

Stephen Peterman once played the better part of a season in Detroit with a Lisfranc injury and didn't know it until after he was put on IR. He managed to recover and put in a couple more decent seasons in Detroit. Gotta think it's a lot harder for a guard to recover than a QB, even a running one.

3 If Miami get any chance…

If Miami get any chance whatever to sign him or trade for him and don't they should close the place down. If Carolina do trade him, then I've got a bridge for sale I'm sure their front office will love

5 Is anyone besides the ESPN…

Is anyone besides the ESPN reporter, David Newton, who hates Cam Newton, reporting that the Panthers are done with Cam Newton? It makes no sense.

7 I haven't see Allen play…

I haven't see Allen play enough to have an opinion on him, but obviously if they think he'll be a better than average starting qb somewhat soon, you save the cap space and trade Newton. A big, much more expensive, guy, who depends on running for a lot of his value, with a lingering lis franc injury, as he approaches 30 years old, simply is not a good bet.

12 They do heal. Mine took a…

They do heal. Mine took a year to heal, but I am running mountains again without even a trace of pain.
Allen is at best an average quarterback. Newton at best will win the Super Bowl with this team. $19 million is dirt cheap for a healthy Cam Newton. 

Kyle Allen is not a bad quarterback at this point, but he would have to vastly improve to be a good quarterback. 

Kyle Allen will be getting $550,000 next year. If he is the starter, they are going to have to pay him quarterback money moving forward. 

I heard some teams have guaranteed their average quarterback $28 million a year. 

13 Obviously, neither one of us…

Obviously, neither one of us has any insight into Newton's particular injury, and, no your experience cannot be taken as guidance. I've read that surgery is still a possibility for Newton. If that is true, I'd be wary.

The guy guaranteed 28 million/year through next season is currently on the field, and ranked 8 by DYAR, 7 by DVOA. That's ok. If he was off the field with a lisfranc, and surgery was still on the table, that would suck, even at 20 million a year.

14 As I understand it, very few…

As I understand it, very few people have died from a lisfranc injury. It just takes time. If it was severe enough for permanent injury, Dr. Andrews would have recommended surgery. Cam is going to be out for the rest of the season. He should be completely healed by next training camp. 
Tom Brady was 31, older than Cam Newton, when he lost a year to injury. 
I don't understand where this talk is coming from about getting rid of Cam Newton. I suspect quite a bit of it is racist based on his 'brash' personality. 
I note that just about every team is looking into his availability, including the Patriots. 

18 It is simply a falsehood to…

It is simply a falsehood to claim that a lisfranc injury has a 100% recovery rate, to explosive athletic movement, given time.

To quote...

 

"A study published by the University of Pennsylvania reported that more than 90 percent of players who suffered a Lisfranc injury resumed playing within 15 months (Allen should apparently come back much sooner) and saw no noticeable decrease in performance"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/all-about-lisfranc-injury-injury-jonathan-allen-now-dealing%3famp

A 10% chance of noticeable decline in athletic performance is a big deal.

 

 

 

20 Your logical fallacies: -…

Your logical fallacies:

- black or white fallacy: you don't either die from an injury or your recover 100%. 

- appeal to authority: Dr. Andrews could be wrong. (Or Newton didn't listen to Dr Andrews).

- the Texas sharpshooter: just because Brady recovered at 31, doesn't mean Newton can/will. 

- anecdotal: just because you recovered, doesn't mean Newton will.

- I don't know where to put your appeal to racism, so I'll call it that: appeal to racism. Just because Newton is black doesn't mean any story to trade him is grounded in racism. It could be. It could be not. 

22 "Logical fallacies"?  Appeal…

"Logical fallacies"? 

Appeal to authority? No. Dude. It's called a fact. Dr. Andrews is known as the most killed specialist, possibly in the world. His diagnosis is not 'an appeal to authority'. His diagnosis is a fact. 

If you go to a doctor and he diagnosis you with a broken leg, do you dismiss it as an 'appeal to authority' logical fallacy?

In your interpretation, there are no such things as facts, simply word games.

"just because Brady recovered at 31, doesn't mean Newton can/will." - This is also not a logical fallacy. It is called an example. Any person with minimal literate skills should be able to tell that the argument I made was not:
'Because Tom Brady at the age of 31 recovered, therefore Cam Newton will recover." 
However, it seems as if it was beyond you.
As already mentioned on this page, over 90% of Lisfranc injuries result in no noticeable long term damage. 
Quarterbacks recover from major injuries at around the same age and some go on to have Hall of Fame careers. One such example of that is Tom Brady.

"Anecdotal" Yet again, The argument was not I recovered from Lisfranc injury, therefore Cam Newton will recover. It is yet another example, and also an appeal to experience. I have had a Lisfranc injury. I know how painful it is. I know how long and hard the recovery is. I also happen to know, the long term prognosis of Lisfranc injuries is that they extremely rarely lead to long term problems. 

Now, you have no idea what you are talking about, and clearly you are used to BS'ing your opinions onto others. I don't mind you having a different opinion. Often different opinions lead me to understand how I am thinking about a subject incorrectly, and lead me to reconsider my opinion.

However, I don't respond well to people attempting to BS me by throwing out terms they obviously don't grasp themselves. 
I'm going to assume you were drunk or otherwise incoherent from other substances. 

If you come up with a coherent argument, please continue to contribute. Otherwise, save your BS'ing for people more prone to that sort of nonsense.

24 I find you last comment…

I find you last comment about racism personally offensive and just a lazy retort to skepticism about Cam Newton's future.

In another thread, an FO poster pointed out the fact the Newton has not been very good since 2015( his MVP year) and that's going off of stars that take his rushing value into account. The panther offenses haven't lit the world on fire and he's been getting injury prone even before this season. Oh and he is carrying a huge cap number.

 

So no, I don't think it's crazy for the Panthers to wonder if Cam Newton's best days are behind him and that they might be better off long term with a draft pick, cap savings, and a new qb.

 

I also think QB needy teams need to be aware of the risks as well. This is not Tom Brady coming off an acl injury. He has neither Brady's injury history nor anywhere near his production.

 

 

25 Much of the criticism of Cam…

Much of the criticism of Cam Newton is racist. If you don't notice it, that says something about you. Cam Newton has a brash external personality, and a very guarded personal life. He doesn't open up to reporters, so they have piled on him, often in racist terms.
Let's take his Super Bowl interview for example. Look at all the descriptions people wrote about it. Now take a look at Bill Belichick's interview, any of them really, but the one after his first loss of this season to the Ravens. 
If you can't see the inherent racism in the difference between the two, perhaps you should think about your own prejudices.

29 This is stupendous in so…

This is stupendous in so many ways. You are blindly suggesting his criticism is racist. Care to provide any quotes or evidence that these are racist? 

 

So which parts of his criticism do you think are based on racism? His recent injury history, is that racist? His poor play over the last few years where there are actual statistics to back them up...racist too? What about the fact that he has an enormous cap figure and cutting him would give the team a lot of savings...is that also racist?

 

But even deeper than that, media members have been criticizing qbs for their attitude for years and it takes a special kind of spin to see that as racist. Jay Cutler got bashed for being a bad teammate and not caring when he didn't play hurt in the NFC championship game. Johnny Manziel got lampooned for being a careless drunk who was all play no work. And god knows how much bashing has Baker Mayfield received for his bad attitude and prickly demeanor. But those three examples cannot be racist because they are white, which would destroy your narrative.

 

Meanwhile, I've heard nothing but exemplary things for Russel Wilson, who by all accounts is a terrific teammate and player on and off the field. Is the racism relegated to just the NFC South media members?

 

Calling something or someone racist is the easiest thing in world to say, especially when it sings emotionally while also being nearly impossible to disprove because no one can know if someone is or isnt truly a racist. And to me, that is sad and pathetic. Racism does exist in this country and its very serious, but every time you cry wolf over and over, people eventually roll their eyes and the next time it truly does occur, it might just get ignored. 

 

 

32 Also, I haven't seen anyone…

Also, I haven't seen anyone suggest his personality is the problem. It's like theslothook said, injuries, inconsistent performance that's been trending down, and now a tough new injury on top. On the other hand, unless Allen trends up to end the season -and if the injury prognosis is good- they should probably keep him.

15 Newton's DYAR by season

2011: 592 DYAR (404 pass & 188 rush)
2012: 571 DYAR (422 pass & 149 rush)
2013: 523 DYAR (421 pass & 102 rush)
2014: 41 DYAR (-105 pass & 146 rush)
2015: 772 DYAR (630 pass & 142 rush)
2016: -66 DYAR (-64 pass & -2 rush)
2017: 258 DYAR (141 pass & 117 rush)
2018: 392 DYAR (321 pass & 71 rush)
2019: -119 DYAR (-73 pass & -46 rush)

His 4 best seasons all came within his first 5 years in the NFL, and 2015 was the last time that he was a top 20 QB in total DYAR (passing + rushing).

23 What strikes me on that list…

What strikes me on that list, is how good his DYAR was just last year, when his shoulder was so bad that he couldn't thrown 20 yards down field. With a healed shoulder, and two functional feet, it appears to me that he is poised to have an MVP worthy season in the Norv Turner, Christian Mccaffery offense. 

30 392 DYAR is not good over an…

392 DYAR is not good over an entire season. For reference, that ranked 21st in the league in 2018, worse than the likes of Dalton, Trubisky and Flacco (as was his DVOA - including rushing). 

Granted injuries played a part, but we can see from his history that even when healthy his DYAR is not in the very top echelons of QBs the league. 

I'm not here to slam Newton. He has been a good, and most certainly a fun player over his career, and I sincerely hope he returns to his best. But there are now obvious doubts over his long-term health, and whether he should any longer command top tier money. Suggesting he is poised for an MVP season is patently absurd. 

17 My feeling is that going on…

My feeling is that going on IR is the best thing for him. He gets beat up more than just about every other QB in the league, and from what I have heard, he rarely gets roughing the passer calls in his favor. Let him recover and take and get another shot.

19 I've never been a big fan of…

I've never been a big fan of Cam's game. He's just too inconsistent for my tastes. He can look like a HOFer one week, and then look like a practice squad guy the very next week.

Having said that, if he can get a clean bill of health by the start of training camp, I'd expect the Panthers to sign him to an extension, and I couldn't really blame them if they did. It's just so hard to find a true franchise QB that you hate to give up on one just because of a mere possibility of future injuries.

26 I just read Graziano's…

I just read Graziano's extremely poorly thought out analysis, and I think I see where this is coming from now.
There are many teams jumping all over themselves to get Cam Newton. That shows that Dr. Andrew's is correct, he does not have a long term injury. He is 30 years old, and has many good years left in him.

Graziano's analysis is based on one really stupid idea, that the Panthers can save $18.5 million a year over the next three years by getting rid of Cam Newton, and keeping Kyle Allen at the restricted agent minimum.

That is the most idiotic idea I believe I have ever seen on ESPN, a site not famous for its penetrating analysis to begin with.

The idea is that the Panthers cut Cam Newton, because Kyle Allen is performing at a starting quarterback level.

Then as an unrestricted agent, the Panthers can pay him the league minimum over the next three years.

What is the one thing we know about Kyle Allen from his collegiate history?

If there is any one player in the league who we know will sit out rather than get what he considers a raw deal, it's Kyle Allen.

If Kyle Allen is performing at a level that makes letting Cam Newton go seem like a good idea, he is going to get paid like Cam Newton. There will be no savings.

To me, this all looks like a ploy to get a team friendly contract with Cam Newton, and then be able to trade Kyle Allen for a first round pick. Unless Kyle unexpectedly lights it up the rest of the year, then the Panthers would be insane to let Cam Newton walk.

27 Please see my above post…

Please see my above post. Cam Newton has in fact not been good for a while and that MVP season looks a lot like a giant outlier than it does some evidence of a hall of fame qb. On net when healthy, he might be a borderline top 10 qb. But, he's been hurt before and not just with this foot injury. There are plenty of warning flags surrounding Cam Newton.