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Jaguars Fire Tom Coughlin

The Jacksonville Jaguars have fired Vice-President of Football Operations Tom Coughlin

"I determined earlier this fall that making this move at the conclusion of the 2019 season would be in everyone's best interests but, in recent days, I reconsidered and decided to make this change immediately," Jaguars owner Shad Khan said in a statement.

Coughlin was fired two days after the NFLPA informed players that an arbitrator had ruled for the union and against the Jaguars over mandatory offseason rehab procedures at the team's facility. Leonard Fournette and Dante Fowler (now with the Rams) have said publicly that they have won their grievances and had their fines rescinded.

Cornerback Jalen Ramsey, another ex-Jaguars player now on the Rams roster, reportedly forced a trade out of Jacksonville to get away from Coughlin. 

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Comments

61 comments, Last at 03 Jan 2020, 7:27am

1 I've said it before ...

I've said it before ... he's Jeff Fisher with two Lombardi's.

I suspect the Giants won those in spite of him, not because of him.

2 Of course, one only need to…

Of course, one only need to change 1 or 2 plays to get Fisher 1 trophy, and likely not all that many more for a 2nd one.  I think both guys are great examples of how a long career is not a constant thing. Someone can have positive qualities which atrophy and become swamped, over time, by negative attributes. Someone can also make positive changes, and then revert to bad habits.

 When I see Coughlin I see a guy who had some qualities which make a Parcells or Belichik great, but without even an atom of Parcells' humor, which is a huge difference-maker when managing people, and a tendency, unlike Belichick, to make all crticism very, very, personal, which means that people just block you out.

11 But also without Coughlin's…

But also without Coughlin's proclivity for turning all criticism into a bitter personal assault. Belichick is the epitome of just slittin' throats that need slittin', without much in the way of histrionics. I think hyper competitive people like NFL caliber athletes, for the most part,  react pretty well to that approach. Bud Grant was that way. If he felt he needed to tell the mule something twice, or raise his voice, he'd just put a round into the mule's head, and go buy another one. 

40 5

Five titles per Wikipedia.  Four Grey Cups, and the National Football League title in 1969.

57 don't forget

In reply to by Stendhal1

the 1950 NBA title, which he won as a basketball player.

Not sure if he is the only person to have both an NBA and NFL championship ring, but anyone else would probably have been an owner....

 

 

58 Paul Flatley story

Bud Grant was preceded by Norm van Brocklin, who was all about shouting and getting into verbal altercations.

One of the better receivers from that era was Paul Flatley, who despite often earning Dutch's ire still managed to have some very memorable games (including one when playing after a hangover caught a touchdown at full speed at Wrigley field and could not stop before the brick wall so he leapt into the band injuring several musicians).

He never adapted to life under Grant.   He later recalled that Grant only spoke to him 3 times.  The first time he told him to cut his hair.   The second time he told him to cut his mustache.    The third time he cut him.

 

 

22 "without the cheating"

Well, Belichick has won 6 Lombardis in seasons no cheating accusations were lodged.  Or are you one of those physics denialists?  

He'd have won in 2007-8 if the refs hadn't swallowed their whistles on the helmet pass play and literally let Shaun O'Hara "block"  Richard Seymour by grabbing his larynx from behind.  

59 the assumption is that

the assumption is that he is actually good at cheating therefore we never find out about the rest of the stuff he does.   The next assumption of this is that Gillette stadium itself has massive surveillance built into its very infrastructure, complete with monitoring of opposing team radio signals (remember when the Steelers mysteriously started getting a local radio station on their helmet radios and couldn't send in plays)?

54 Coughlin is Belichick…

Coughlin is Belichick without the cheating

This take is so hot it set my phone on fire, which then exploded and set my house on fire. The house burned down and I'm in the hospital with 2nd degree burns over 80% of my body! LOL :) 

18 I was going to evaluate…

I was going to evaluate Coughlin relative to other Giants coaches, but holy hell is the Giants' franchise coaching history weird.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/index.htm

Other than a stretch from 1974-1982 when they were uniformly terribly, even coach other than Jim Howell has whipsawed between really good and really bad seasons -- even Parcells. There is no uniformity from year to year. It's like every coach was Wayne Fontes.

19 Giants once had Lombardi as…

Giants once had Lombardi as offensive coordinator, and Landry as defensive coordinator,  on their staff at the same time. Letting them both get away started the long slide into crapdom that only ended once the league office intervened to get George Young hired as GM, who eventually hired Parcells.

Consistent winning in the NFC East in the 80's, with Parcells, Gibbs, Landry, and a reasonably performing Eagles franchise, was no easy task.

36 Your facts are incorrect

Which Super Bowl was that? Jeff Fisher only coached in one Super Bowl, and his team lost by seven points. He needed a yard for a TD, an extra point, and then still would have needed to win in overtime. He could have gone for two after a TD for the win, but Jeff Fisher has never been that imaginative. The Jeff Fisher was only one yard from winning a Super Bowl narrative needs to end. He needed a lot more than a yard. 

46 In an attempt to find a clip…

In an attempt to find a clip of the Rams running a fake punt from deep in their own territory (against SF I think?), I instead found this play that I don't remember hearing about before.

https://twitter.com/jeffdlowe/status/1046782045794553857?lang=en

1) It's an awesome fake punt!

2) It was wasted in the preseason!

7 Change then reversion

I recalled reading that Coughlin had changed his ways while coaching the Giants, and sure enough there’s an Iain O’Connor article from ESPN in 2016 to that effect.  It’s thesis is that Coughlin lightened up and became more of a people person manager around 2006, helping lead to those two SB trophies.  Judging by the labor rulings, he must have reverted to his idiotic “fine a player for being ‘late’ to a meeting by not showing up five minutes early” style.

13 When you have an office…

When you have an office management job, and keep losing arbitration cases because you are too effin' stupid to adhere to a labor contract, you have by definition become a halfwit unworthy of a 7 or 8 figure salary, or, really, even a 6 or high 5 figure salary.

31 Good call

I suspected that could be the case.  That being said, the article was a valedictory after Coghlin was fired, so there was no need to curry continued favor.  O'Connor probably was feeling nostalgic.

39 So here's what I've always…

So here's what I've always wondered, if you have to show up 5 minutes early to a Coughlin meeting or you're late, doesn't that mean you have to leave a Coughlin meeting 5 minutes early lest you be late for your next meeting? He always struck me as such a giant, gaping a-hole that I doubt he would have been understanding of that.

41 It’s the two dollar bill problem

I once heard a tall tale about why the original 2 dollar bill disappeared.  There supposedly was a tradition that every time you accepted a 2 dollar bill, you had to tear off a corner.  When all four corners were off, the bill was worthless.  Sounds fishy, but stay with me.  As a result, no one would accept a bill with 3 torn corners, because you’d have to tear the fourth corner and render the bill worthless.  This is turn meant that no one would accept a bill with 2 torn corners, because you’d have to tear off the third corner and no one would accept a bill with 3 torn corners.  This is turn meant that no one would accept a bill with 1 torn corner, because you’d have to tear off the second corner and no one would accept a bill with 2 torn corners.  This in turn meant no one would accept a bill with 0 torn corners, because you’d have to tear off the first corner and no one would accept a bill with 1 torn corner.

Nice bit of logic / koan, don’t you think?

Anyway, I always think of this when I consider the Coughlin five minutes early rule.  If you’re late to a meeting unless you show up 5 minutes early, then in order not to be late, you’d better show up 10 minutes early, 15 minutes early, ad infinitum.

Or, as Oscar Wilde wrote in The Picture Of Dorian Gray, punctuality is the thief of time.

43 Sounds like a variant on the…

Sounds like a variant on the Unexpected Hanging Paradox.

A man is sentenced to be executed by hanging. The warden comes to him. "I have scheduled your execution for some day this week. In my experience, prisoners don't like to know when their end is coming, because it lets them stew beforehand. So I guarantee you that you will not know ahead of time which day you will be executed. As proof of my word, if you announce correctly on the day you are scheduled to be hung that that is the day of your hanging, I will let you go free."

The prisoner thinks for a bit: "Well, obviously, I can't be executed Saturday, because that's the last day of the week and I would know that Saturday morning. Since I can't be executed Saturday, I also can't be executed Friday, since the same logic applies. Same goes for Thursday, Wednesday, etc. The warden must not be planning to hang me at all!"

 

Then Tuesday comes around and the prisoner is led to the gallows, shocked.

47 I had never heard that…

I had never heard that before about 2 dollar bills.  A little googling, and apparently it was done as a superstition.  2 dollar bills were bad luck, so if you tore the corner off, the bad luck would leak out.

20 You could get Fisher…

You could get Fisher probably 3 Lombardis with minimal interference, obviously change one yard short, then two turnover touchdowns in the 2001 playoff game against the Ravens, and the fumbles in the 2009 playoff game against the Ravens. (And you wonder why I hate the Ravens so much?)

Obviously, future wins aren't guaranteed, but those three teams were the Titans' (and Fisher's) best shots at Super Bowls.

21 Just to clarify my early…

Just to clarify my early comment ... neither is worthy of the HoF but you don't manage 20 years as a HC without some sort of ability.

I remember evaluating Fisher's record on a year-to-year basis and you could see why ownership would invite him back for so long.   Plus he was battling Manning and the Colts for many years in the AFCS - so it was always a big challenge.

Further to Will's comment the game was on the verge of passing them by with their chosen style of tough defense and a strong ground attack. I hesitate to entirely believe that given the success of Harbaugh 49ers and Caroll's Seahawk, and the Jags in 2017 themselves. 

48 Even his work with the Rams…

Even his work with the Rams was probably pretty good.  The Rams had averaged 3 wins in the 5 seasons before he arrived (though they did go 7-9 two years before he arrived).  Then they averaged 7 wins in his first 4 seasons (he said "no more 7-9 bullshit" for a reason!).  The wheels came off in his 5th season - the first in Los Angeles.

49 Having seen what McVay did…

Having seen what McVay did with Goff last season I was very willing to point and say "look what a dinosaur Fisher was when he said Goff wasn't ready to start" but then Belichick exposed Jared's flaws in the Super Bowl and he's beed decidedly average this year.  Overall Fisher ended his career as a 7-9 sligtly below average coach.

50 Indeed. The Rams from 2007…

Indeed. The Rams from 2007-2009 (the three years preceding Fisher) must be contenders for the worst 3 year stretch of team play in NFL history. They won a total of 6 games those three seasons, finishing 32nd, 31st, and 31st in DVOA, only narrowly being kept off the bottom spot both those years by the infamous 0-16 Lions (and then incredibly the Lions were even worse by DVOA in 2009, the year after they went 0-16!).

Fisher came in and immediately made them tough and respectable, especially on defense (his primary area of expertise). Most of their '7-9 bullshit' seasons were in the context of being stuck in a division with Legion of Boom Seahawks, and the Harbaugh 49ers. Sadly he never got a grip on the offense, and is primarily responsible for mostly wasting Sam Bradford's career (hello also, Brain Schottenheimer!). Then, as you note, they totally crashed and burned after the relocation. But wholly unfair for Fisher's career to have become some sort of punchline. 

5 Say what you want about the…

Say what you want about the Patriots conduct and ethics, but they are doing stuff that help them actually win games. Then there are the moron teams like the Jaguars, who are actively finding unethical ways to piss off their players and help them lose. It beggars belief.

9 Say what you want about the…

Say what you want about the Patriots conduct and ethics, but they are always doing stuff that help them actually win games. 

That's an interesting way to cast cheating.

Now tell me, how does murdering an informant help win games?

23 ah yes

The Patriots are responsible for any and all crimes committed by Aaron Hernandez.  This is certainly an unusually wide net to cast.  I feel like we should go full Otter here.

But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but I for one am not going to stand here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

If the Patriots bear collective guilt for Hernandez, shouldn't the NFL bear this collective guilt, too?  And if the NFL bears guilt, then isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? 

Seriously, nobody blames the USPS if a postal worker "goes postal."  Nobody has blamed the military for the recent shootings in Pensacola.  The Patriots are not a terrorist training academy or a murderous gang.  Get a friggin' grip already.  

Or do you want the Ravens to bear the blame for the murders in Miami, the Colts to bear the blame for Marvin Harrison, the Raiders to bear the blame for Jack Tatum paralyzing Daryl Stingley (there's actually a better argument there), etc.  

Also, get a grip on whether you want to accuse the Patriots of cheating or of being a gang of murderous thugs.  You are clearly conflating the two.  Either accusation can be handled adeptly, but it's difficult when you jump from cheating to murder so casually.

BTW, you're not half as morally superior as you think you are.  Not if you're this lazy with your thinking processes.

32 RickD and the other Patriot…

RickD and the other Patriot fans have paddled so far down the river DeNial that they have no other way to respond except with unhinged attacks. They know that the Patriots have been cheating, they just got caught yet another time by a league doing it's best Sergeant Shultz impression, they have long since run out of even implausible explanations, yet they've somehow entwined their psyche with other people's perception of their sports team. Observing that the Patriots have been cheating for years is a direct attack on their own self-worth.  
No other sports franchise outside the northeast does that. It's very strange.
Consider the case of Jerry Richardson. When it was revealed that he was a serial sexual harasser, Panther fans wanted him held accountable. Robert Kraft is on video doing much worse, and Patriot fans feel that they are required to defend him. 

38 Was she willing? Her sex…

Was she willing? The 'sex worker' was not a citizen. She was engaged in an illegal act. Perhaps you are completely unaware of the history of prostitution in the US, but it is replete with vulnerable women being coerced into sexual acts, violence, beatings, and murder.
Perhaps if this took place in Las Vegas, where prostitution is legal, you might have an argument. But it didn't. 

42 You are completely ignorant…

You are completely ignorant of the circumstances regarding Kraft's "crime". The prosecutor's suggestions of human trafficking and intimidation being involved with the targeted massage parlors was a complete and total lie. These were middle aged women who can make easier money providing handjobs to old men, compared to other employment. Yes, it was a crime. So is intoxicating yourself with marajuana in some states. Big deal. To say it is worse than harrassing women who just want to be left alone is ridiculous.

45 "Was a complete and total…

"Was a complete and total lie" You know that how? Because Kraft's lawyers and PR team planted some stories? 
Your argument is ridiculous. Let me spell out what you are attempting to argue here. Patriot fans would demand accountability for Kraft if he was harassing women in his employ, but not for illegally soliciting prostitution. There is some kind of clear dividing line between the two? Please Will, I generally respect you, don't let your animosity for me lead you into taking absurd positions.

52 Endeavor to be literate,…

Endeavor to be literate, please. I made zero claims regarding what Patriots fans would do. None. Got it? 

I made one claim. That harrassing women who want to be left alone is worse than paying a woman who consensually agrees to sexually gratify a man who agrees to pay her. I then accurately noted that the prosecutor originally lied his ass off about having evidence of trafficking and coercion, and then later produced exactly zero evidence of any of that. What you imagine what happened has exactly zero relationship to what evidence you have seen that it occurred, and you ought to have enough self respect to simply admit that you have seen zero evidence that the women in this situation were trafficked or coerced in any way, and I say that as someone who has ripped Kraft many times. 

Hey, here's an idea! Why not just concern yourself with those things that you have some evidence of actually occurring?

.....nah....that's crazy talk...

10 Imagine if you will...

Apocalypse Now, only replacing Brando with Tom Coughlin. Then repeat it with each of Parcels, Bellichick, or Fisher. Which works best? How would they differ?

I'm also trying to imagine who to replace Sheen with in each of these scenarios...

14 Parcels is Kurtz; Belichick…

Parcels is Kurtz; Belichick is Willard.

You could do it with Fisher and McVey.

None of Belichick's underlings are sufficiently competent to kill him. I don't see anyone for Coughlin, really.

28 I was thinking more…

I was thinking more quarterbacks.

Parcels would have Hostetler, with a crazy Sims as Dennis Hopper.

Bellichick you have Brady and a crazed Bledsoe.   Except Brady doesn't really work.

Fisher you take your pick, McNair, Goff, Keenum, there are many...

and for Coughlin it has to be Eli...  with Tiki Barber as Hopper.

60 Act 3 Scene 2

FIRST REPORTER

I will hear McDaniels speak.

ANOTHER REPORTER:

I will hear Patricia and compare their reasons

When severally we hear them renderèd.

Exit PATRICIA with some of the REPORTERS

MCDANIELS goes into the pulpit

THIRD REPORTER

The noble McDaniels is ascended. Silence!

MCDANIELS

Be patient till the last. Coaches, players and fanatics! Hear me for my cause, and be silent that you may hear. Believe me for mine honor, and have respect to mine honor that you may believe. Censure me in your wisdom, and awake your senses that you may the better judge. If there be any in this assembly, any dear friend of Belichick's, to him I say that McDaniels' love to Belichick was no less than his. If then that friend demand why McDaniels rose against Belichick, this is my answer: not that I loved Belichick less, but that I loved The Shield more.

 

44 the N.F.L. players’ union…

the N.F.L. players’ union noted that in the past two years, more than 25 percent of all league-wide grievances were filed by Jacksonville players.