Denver Broncos to Trade for HC Sean Payton
NFL Conference Championship - The Denver Broncos are finalizing compensation with the New Orleans Saints to acquire the right to hire Super Bowl-winning head coach Sean Payton, according to a report from ESPN's Adam Schefter.
Denver is set to send a 2023 first-round pick and a 2024 second-round pick for Payton and a Saints 2024 third-round selection.
Payton has been tied to the New Orleans Saints since 2006, winning a Super Bowl with the organization in 2009. The 2006 AP Coach of the Year announced his retirement at the end of the 2021 season.
In Payton's 15 years as head coach of the New Orleans Saints, the Saints finished 12 seasons top-ten in offensive DVOA (with two additional 11th place finishes). 2021 was Payton's worst season by offensive DVOA, his only season as head coach with a negative offensive DVOA.
Comments
62 comments, Last at 06 Feb 2023, 11:40am
#2 by Mash Wilson // Jan 31, 2023 - 5:16pm
We just blew a gigantic pile of draft capital and cap space on a middle-aged quarterback who is even more of a demanding prima donna than late-30s Ben Roethlisberger but not quite as good. He could not possibly care less what his coach wants to do. He got the coach we hired on his say-so (not true; apparently you can't do strikethrough on this site, but wanted to note I asserted this but it is not true) his first coach here fired in less than a season.
I have a great idea: why not blow another big pile of draft capital on an aging superstar coach who almost certainly will not even pretend to care about dealing with Russ's bullshit and will just cash checks while waiting to be fired?
#7 by serutan // Jan 31, 2023 - 6:11pm
I have a great idea: why not blow another big pile of draft capital on an aging superstar coach who almost certainly will not even pretend to care about dealing with Russ's bullshit and will just cash checks while waiting to be fired?
I don't think it's that bad, but I'm not convinced he's automatically a savior either.
#16 by KnotMe // Jan 31, 2023 - 7:14pm
Considering he retired rather than rebuild, yeah. I can see it turning out Russ did actually decline, can't play the way he used to and has trouble adapting to being a more traditional guy and Payton sort of turning out and just retiring again.
#10 by Cythammer // Jan 31, 2023 - 6:28pm
Nobody seems to have ever thought Russell Wilson was a prima donna before this last year. Actually... Even all the criticisms of late haven't been that he was a prima donna. The knock on him seems to be that is a weird, disingenuous guy. Frankly, I've never heard anyone say Russell Wilson doesn't work extremely hard. It's possible he's no longer a good QB, but that's almost certainly because of a physical decline, not some problem with his character. It's always ridiculous to me that players who were apparently upstanding citizens previously will suddenly be cast as villains when their level of play drops. Tom Brady this season and Carson Wentz post-2017 are other good examples.
#11 by Mash Wilson // Jan 31, 2023 - 6:34pm
There is truth to what you say. It seems at least as likely to me that a more accurate way to put it is: a guy can get away with being an asshole so long as he produces like a superstar. Another fair illustration of this principle is the contrast between Belichick and several of his assistants who attempted to be head coaches.
#51 by IlluminatusUIUC // Feb 01, 2023 - 12:22pm
a guy can get away with being an asshole so long as he produces like a superstar.
Career advice I once got is that you can be great at your job, easy to get along with, or cheap, but you have to be at least two. For an athlete it's probably closer to what you've noted since success is quantifiable, but it seems like a similar scenario.
#13 by theslothook // Jan 31, 2023 - 6:51pm
I will say, I was rather surprised at all of the negative comments that have come his way. Maybe its as simple as Russ is no longer very good, but we didn't hear a parade of grousing after Manning fell apart down the stretch. if anything, the veterans lined up in his defense.
#62 by Hoodie_Sleeves // Feb 06, 2023 - 11:40am
". It's always ridiculous to me that players who were apparently upstanding citizens previously will suddenly be cast as villains when their level of play drops. Tom Brady this season and Carson Wentz post-2017 are other good examples."
The guy with exemplary performance chewing out other players comes off very differently when that guy no longer has exemplary performance. The guy who never gets called for holding yelling at someone about their technique is ok - when that guy is getting beat all the time - it's not.
Tom Brady screaming at people to work harder feels different when he's no longer running Wide Receiver Camp at his house, and is instead skipping training camp and most of the preseason. Tom Brady has always been a pain in the ass - but that was ok when he was better than everyone else and working harder than everyone else. He's always been the "first guy in the building, last to leave" type, and he's not anymore. He's apparently was acting like he still was, and that comes off as hypocritical.
#23 by bobrulz // Jan 31, 2023 - 8:03pm
I think understanding recent Broncos history is important. The last 3 Broncos head coaches have gone a combined 34-62 in 6 seasons (not counting Rosburg's 1-1 interim record). All 3 were coaches that had no previous head coaching experience. Now the Broncos have new owners willing to spend a lot of money to bring in a good coach with a proven track record. Will Sean Payton solve all of the Broncos' problems? Probably not. Is Russell Wilson washed up? Possibly. But as a Broncos fan who has watched how badly this team has fallen in the last few years, it's nice to see the Broncos actually make a real investment in the team. It might not work out, but I definitely think it's worth the risk.
And really when it comes down to it, offensively at least, the Broncos can't get any worse than last year. Payton should at least bring baseline competence back to the team.
#28 by KnotMe // Jan 31, 2023 - 8:39pm
I would be interesting where that came from as it doesn't pass the smell test for me. The Bronco's problem is they need to fix Russ. So the idea that they wanted a coach from the defensive side of the ball seems odd to me.
#47 by Pat // Feb 01, 2023 - 10:24am
I don't think "fix" is the right word. The Broncos' problem is that they need to turn Russ into someone he's basically never been.
I'm well on record saying I was not a Pete Carroll fan, so I was basically neutral on the Wilson trade - it's better than it seems money-wise, and my thought was that Wilson was a top-5 QB being held back by Carroll so the picks didn't really matter.
Now that thought looks nuts, and you're left with the fact that Wilson's broken 1000 DYAR exactly as often as Derek Carr and Kirk Cousins have.
#49 by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Feb 01, 2023 - 12:04pm
I agree with this, but I'll say that if the new owners want to have a successful franchise, it makes sense for their first step to be to build the best possible management team to run the franchise.
I'm not sure if Payton is as good as his reputation - it's the old "was it the coach or was it the QB" question that always plagues football discussions - but he's definitely the highest-profile available coach with the best recent and long-term track record of success. Giving up a few near-term draft picks to hire your potential coach for the next decade isn't a poor investment if you really are getting a top-tier coach. Even if you don't end up with a top-tier coach, i.e. even if Payton doesn't turn out to be the guy, with the information available to them, this seems like a good process to me for long-term franchise-building.
#29 by Spanosian Magn… // Jan 31, 2023 - 8:42pm
The Chargers and Raiders have each made the playoffs in the last two years, and are returning solid rosters, while the Broncos have finished last in the Division 3 seasons in a row. They not only need the Chiefs to come down, they need neither of those two to take their place.
Maybe that will happen - I do think the Broncos now have the best coach of the three (though I'm cautiously optimistic Kellen Moore will right some wrongs in Chargerland) - but maybe it won't - they might very well be stuck with the worst QB in the division for the forseeable future (depending not only on Wilson's possible bounceback, but the Raiders possibly upgrading from Carr).
I'm glad the Broncos aren't going to just turtle up ("rebuild") for awhile, and I guess on some level I admire Payton jumping into the lions' den. But the path to contention in, say, Carolina looks infinitely easier, and their owner keeps saying he wants to spend big - seemed a better fit all around, other than the Broncos have a Proven Veteran(TM) QB.
#17 by reddwarf // Jan 31, 2023 - 7:17pm
Damn. Was really hoping it wasn't going to end this way.
More draft picks gone (though admittedly less than I feared).
The guy in charge when Bountygate happened.
The guy who fake retired to get out of coaching a rebuilding team.
The guy who leaked ENDLESSLY the last month about where he might be going (seriously, no serious leaks around Harbaugh, Ryans, or any of the rest, but every day something new about Payton--he was the leaker playing games in the press).
I just don't like or trust him.
And as for his football credentials? Is there any evidence that he did anything more than catch lightning in a bottle once with Brees? Brees/Payton was a a great combo-but more offensive gurus fail than succeed once they change environments. And even with Brees and a pretty good roster they only got to one Super Bowl (though they probably did get screwed out of a second). And Brees and Wilson couldn't be more different! Wilson simply has never been a read the defense pre-snap, quick drop, fire on timing QB. Hard to think he can be at this point. So either the offensive guru will be trying to force a square peg into a round hole or he will be adopting a completely different offense than he got all those accolades for. It's just a bad match.
Big name. Bad choice. Ugh.
#18 by Spanosian Magn… // Jan 31, 2023 - 7:29pm
Yeah, Payton is a fine coach for sure, but honestly I'm not sure I'd rather have him than, like, Mike McCarthy. It's a very short list of coaches I'd even consider trading a 1st for, and neither of them are on it. I'm becoming more and more cognizant of just how much NFL hiring comes from networking and self-promotion (hello, Matt Rhule), and like with the leaks, I think the whole mythos of "Sean Payton is a must-have genius!" is mostly credulous/servile sports media parroting the words of... Sean Payton.
#27 by KnotMe // Jan 31, 2023 - 8:34pm
He did great with Bree's and I do think that requires a certain level of talent. The question is how well he can adapt to Russ. And how well he sticks with it when they don't immediatly go to a superb owl.
That said, they are probably a playoff team if they keep having a top 5 defense and the offense gets up average ore better.
#55 by guest from Europe // Feb 01, 2023 - 1:47pm
He did great with Bridgewater. They were 5-0 with him one year. Small sample, of course. Isn't Bridgewater a free agent now?
He improved Winston significantly compared to his time in Tampa under Arians.
Payton is a very very good offense coach who doesn't interfere with the DC of the team.
#24 by bobrulz // Jan 31, 2023 - 8:08pm
As a Broncos fan, I'm just glad they're being bold. It might backfire but it's so much better than seeing them just listlessly drift around like they seemingly had been since Peyton retired.
And it can't possibly get worse than last year. As someone else noted, Payton still did well with Brees' backups. At the very least, I expect baseline competence, which is so much better than the Broncos have gotten any other time recently.
The Broncos have given up a lot of draft capital recently, but if Sean Payton does turn the team around and can salvage whatever is left of Russell Wilson, it will be worth it.
#61 by bobrulz // Feb 01, 2023 - 6:41pm
Yes, but they hired an offensive coordinator who wasn't even a playcaller to be their head coach. I'm also glad the Broncos traded for Russell Wilson (I think extending him immediately was the bad move), because it seemed like a great move at the time. But they hired the wrong coach, and the quarterback may not be the right one. But at least they tried. And I suppose I meant bold from a coaching perspective, because of how bad - or at least uninspiring - the recent Broncos coaches have been. And even at the time they weren't considered great coaching hires.
#46 by Tracy // Feb 01, 2023 - 10:13am
Is there any evidence that he did anything more than catch lightning in a bottle once with Brees?
As OC of the Giants from 2000-2002, he coaxed the best 3 seasons of performance out of Kerry Collins' career. (including a trip to the superbowl at the end of 2000)
As AHC/QB with the Cowboys under Bill Parcells he got 3300 yards out of Quincy Carter, then turned the clock back for both Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe in successive seasons from 2003-2005.
He was in NO in 2006 when Tony Romo burst onto the scene, but probably deserves some credit for Romo's development from an undrafted free agent in 2004.
Jameis Winston had the best statistical year of his career in 2021 under Payton, and what he was able to get out of Taysom Hill is remarkable.
#21 by ImNewAroundThe… // Jan 31, 2023 - 7:52pm
If the Broncos don't make the playoffs next season, that's a straight W, for NO, for a guy that didn't want to be there. But if the Broncos make at least the divisional round, it will certainly sting a lot less.
Payton with another short, high CPOE QB that had defense first HC and didn't work out with their second HC. Will be mighty interesting. I think he can unlock the MOtF for him. He did go 5-1 with Teddy, 7-2 with Taysom and 5-2 with Jameis. All very different QBs. He doesn't seem like a prisoner of the moment with Russ first bad year because he wore sunglasses to an awards show.
Glad my team didn't give that up but sure is exciting that someone else is being bold. Of course I would have just weakened the Chefs and welcomed Bieniemy home instead of giving up all that. But just don't have a bad coach (like Hackett, who I warned you about as a Packers fan!) and think we can see a rebound.
#26 by BroncosGuyAgain // Jan 31, 2023 - 8:28pm
If the Broncos don't make the playoffs next season, that's a straight W, for NO, for a guy that didn't want to be there. But if the Broncos make at least the divisional round, it will certainly sting a lot less.
I am a bear of very small brain, but . . . what??
Whether or not the Broncos make the playoffs next season does not meaningfully impact the Saints' compensation (aside from the position of the second rounder). But if the Broncos make at least the divisional round, it will certainly sting a lot less. Sting less for whom? You never said it would sting for anybody.
#31 by ImNewAroundThe… // Jan 31, 2023 - 9:00pm
2nd round is still on the precipice of available talent. And would indicate they did right not convincing him to come back.
Sting less for
But if the Broncos make at least the divisional round, it will certainly sting a lot less.
#25 by BroncosGuyAgain // Jan 31, 2023 - 8:13pm
First, I simply lack the ability that many FO posters clearly have: that is, to watch NFL football on TV and determine which current coordinators and former head coaches will make the best head coaching hire for a given team.
My fan-size heart is optimistic, but my rational brain is not so sanguine.
I do not know, have never met, have not interviewed, and have not vetted with trusted relationships around the league any of the candidates. So I have no rational perspective on the topic.
In that context, I kinda liked DeMeco Ryans. There is reporting (and not all reporting is accurate, particularly around these circumstances in which self-serving participants feed "insiders" their preferred narrative) that Ryans was the Broncos' first choice but turned them down for the Texans. If true, this is damning to the Broncos organization. The Texans have bad ownership, no quarterback, and an iffy GM. If you cannot compete on at least two of those fronts, you have a lot to fix.
So the Broncos have spent that past year or so expending both blood and treasure for Russell Wilson (so far a monumental lemon) and Sean Payton. We'll see.
#33 by mansteel // Jan 31, 2023 - 9:38pm
I do not know, have never met, have not interviewed, and have not vetted with trusted relationships around the league any of the candidates. So I have no rational perspective on the topic.
What??? Since when does an almost complete lack of knowledge preclude an internet poster from having an absurdly strong opinion on something?
#35 by mrh // Jan 31, 2023 - 9:50pm
I think Ryans passing on Denver could be an indirect indictment of Wilson. Ryans has seen Wilson play and schemed against him. Ryans could be of the opinion that "Wilson is done" not just in need of "fixing" with the right offensive coaching. Or maybe Ryans just wanted a six year deal, not whatever contract length Denver had in mind.
#40 by TimK // Feb 01, 2023 - 7:42am
Maybe Ryans just misses some restaurants he liked when he played in Houston? Having ties to a location can make a big difference. He quite possibly also knew he was the backup choice after Payton in the eyes on the Broncos’ ownership.
#41 by TimK // Feb 01, 2023 - 7:42am
(Was an accidental double post - edited to add)
One thing that does worry me is that Broncos are apparently making a move to bring Vin Fangio back as DC. If I had a choice I’d want to give Evero enough money to stay for at least one more year as DC, if he continues well and works well with Payton then look to perhaps make him one of those DC/deputy-HC positions and nail down a succession path for when Payton gets bored again (Payton is 59 and seems to have enjoyed retirement once, he doesn’t seem likely to coach forever). If Evero wants to move on after a second year, then in all likelihood he will have learned more about functional team running than last season, and then Bronco get a compensatory pick assuming another team want him (which is about the only way of buying draft picks I can see, without impacting salary cap, and the new owners have the money).
#56 by reddwarf // Feb 01, 2023 - 3:13pm
As of this moment, he hasn't actually signed the deal with the Dolphins. So he could still come to Denver in theory, and he's been linked with Payton for quite a while.
Another thing I hope doesn't happen. Ejiro more than earned the right to keep his job last year. He's from the Fangio system already, and I thought he implemented some very good tweaks to it that Fangio stubbornly resisted around blitz packages.
#57 by IlluminatusUIUC // Feb 01, 2023 - 3:44pm
Houston has the #2 and #12 picks, the 5th most cap space today and 3rd most in '24, and a comparatively weak division. Say what you will about their front office, but the Texans seem like they have much more flexibility to build around a new coach's vision than the Broncos.