Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Most Recent FO Features


» 2018 Free Agency Cost-Benefit Analysis

Is Kirk Cousins the best free-agent quarterback in recent memory? Should Trumaine Johnson or Malcolm Butler have gotten the larger contract? And what makes a free-agent contract good or bad, anyway?

09 Sep 2008

Black & Blue Report: September 9, 2008

by Will Carroll

Who says you can't come home again? It's phenomenal to be back at Football Outsiders, where all this started for me. It began as a favor and ended up a cottage industry, but with three years experience, this column is better than ever and frankly, more needed than ever. The sheer amount and value of injuries in the NFL is something that is barely acknowledged, until it happens to your team. In the seven years I've written about baseball injuries, I've seen fewer and fewer people accepting that it's "just part of the game." In the NFL, it's more a part of the game, but there is far more that needs to be done. I'll keep watching and telling you what's going on by talking to the right people in the game, in the doctors' offices, in the training rooms, and from the press box so that you get the best information. That's what we do here and like I said, I'm glad to be back. Let's get to it:

When I initially saw the hit on Tom Brady, my first thought was "that could be worse." I quickly learned the danger of judging anything from one angle, one look, and from a distance. I didn't hear (or see) Brady's scream. The initial angle I saw was the high end zone corner shot that made it appear that Bernard Pollard had hit Brady's knee head on, pushing it back. The sideline angle that I didn't see until the pregame of the Sunday Night game gave a much different story and reminded me why it's so dangerous to make snap judgments. The hit came from the outside of the knee. Brady's knee caved in medially and then twisted. When you watch the play and compare it to Wheeless' notes on ACL tears, you'll see why I didn't initially believe that the ACL was at risk. Moreover, it didn't appear that Brady's foot was planted or "locked in" by his cleats when the hit occurred. As everyone in the free world knows, Brady is having imaging done today, though manual tests indicate at least an ACL tear. There's no question that Brady will be ready to return next year, but we don't know if there's any associated damage yet -- strains to the MCL or PCL, tears in the meniscus -- and those go a long way in determining how a player returns. Given the time, Brady's work ethic, and his style of play, I don't anticipate any problems as he returns. The move to place him on the IR stops the talk of an in-season return. I do think this is a chance for Bill Belichick to prove what kind of coach he is. A winning record will get him Coach of the Year.

If a quarterback falls and no one notices, is his MCL still sprained? It's no koan, it's the reality for Vince Young. While everyone was watching Tom Brady, few noticed that Young, a mobile quarterback who relies much more on his legs than Brady, also had a significant knee injury. The sprain is said to keep him out between two and four weeks, but sources tell me that Young's work ethic is going to be tested and that "no one thinks he'll work hard enough to be back at the low end" according to one source. Another thinks that Young will actually be tested more on his return, saying that Young without his mobility is "like cheerleaders in a parka. They're not worthless, but they're not nearly as good." I'm watching to see if Young can adjust to a knee brace.

Speaking of braces, I was watching Monday Night Football with Aaron Schatz and the subject of Peyton Manning came up. I mentioned that Manning was wearing a large brace over his left knee. This isn't unusual, but usually they are worn to provide stability. Manning wore his for protection. I doubt he was wearing it in response to Brady's injury, but the fact is that these prophylactic braces aren't high tech. That link (you might notice when it references Dan Pastorini) is from 1981. Why aren't every quarterback and lineman wearing these? I honestly don't know. Manning played well on the repaired knee, but reports are that he had "moderate" swelling and soreness after the game. The turf in Lucas Oil is "puffy" and seemed to have some traction issues in its season debut. It's not a big issue that Manning is having swelling, just that he's able to return by Sunday or preferably much earlier. It's a bigger issue if Jeff Saturday is back since much of Manning's problems was the play of the interior line. There are some rumblings here in Indy that Saturday could be back at practice later this week. Saturday would be risking the knee to come back so quickly after an MCL sprain, but there's a degree of panic in the Colts that is at least pushing Saturday to test it.

Those are not all the problems the Colts are having. Dallas Clark had images taken on his knee. While he returned to the sidelines and was walking comfortably, that's not a good indication that all is well. Clark is a bit injury-prone, but also a quick healer, so it equals out somewhat. There's really no way of knowing how serious this is until the results come back, but even then, we can't be sure. Remember in 2006, Clark was diagnosed with torn ligaments, but a second imaging showed that it wasn't nearly as bad as originally indicated and he came back for the playoff push. The Colts don't have much depth at tight end and tend to use two, especially with the blitzes they're facing, so losing Clark for any period of time hurts their offense in ways beyond just his absence. The Colts are also waiting to see how Joseph Addai responds after a "head injury." No, they won't call it a concussion, but Addai took a hard hit to the head and didn't return. He's expected to be back, but as we all know by now, you simply can't predict how "head injuries" will respond. All these injuries, plus a run defense that had a hard time against Matt Forte, now head up to Minnesota to take on Adrian Peterson with both teams trying to avoid an 0-2 start.

Are we still on quarterbacks? Yes, another one went down. Jeff Garcia, the very definition of mobile QB (non-prison model), suffered an ankle sprain during Sunday's game. No one seems really clear on when this happened, since he stayed mobile and showed no distress during the game. Sometimes, just keeping it warm and loose is enough to play through something, while stopping allows the swelling to come in and the stiffness just behind that. That's the best explanation I have. Early indications are that Garcia's ankle is sore and swollen, and he's going to be limited this week. None of my sources would make a better guess than "questionable" for his chances of starting Week 2 against Atlanta.

It's nice of LaDainian Tomlinson to tell everyone not to "freak out." A little turf toe -- actually, this is more of an enforced hyperextension caused my someone landing on his foot rather than the strict definition of a toe "sticking" on push off -- never killed anybody, but it did kill some fantasy seasons. Tomlinson's pain tolerance has been questioned and that could come into play here. Not that he won't play through it, but after the psychic hits he took during last year's playoffs, he might be a bit more inclined to try and play through pain this season to prove himself. Of course, the result is what we're after and if he's willing to play through a little pain to do so, so be it. The issue from turf toe will be acceleration and I'll let you decide how important it is for Tomlinson's style to have quick starts. He's a must-start, even with this, but I'll be watching practice reports to see how it's affecting him.

The downside of a power running style is all the hits, or as Dire Straits sang sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug. Marion Barber is much more often the windshield of the NFL, but one good shot is all it took to bug him. Barber strained the intracostal cartilage, the stuff between his ribs, so it only hurts when he breathes, moves, or gets hit. He'll need "several" injections to play Sunday, but he is expected to play. I'm expecting him to get a few less carries, meaning Felix Jones is a good play again this week.

If you were following along from Thursday to Sunday, you watched the Ravens backpedaling, going from "Oh sure, Willis McGahee will start, but split the carries" to "we think he'll play." By game-time, even the playing was in question as the Ravens runner just didn't get to the point he needed to be physically able to play effectively. He was active, but never touched the ball, making some wonder if this was an attempt at trickery by John Harbaugh. That remains to be seen, but McGahee was listed as probable and does get "credit" for playing. He's expected to have a real role this week, though it's likely to be the timeshare we thought we'd see at this time last week rather than his normal feature role. They'll be facing a decent front seven in Houston and have the late game, making it tougher to swap him out in most leagues.

And then there were none. Nate Burleson tore his ACL and is out for the season, leaving Matt Hasselbeck with almost no real targets. Deion Branch is still a ways off and Bobby Engram won't be back until October, leaving guys like Logan Payne and Jordan Kent as targets. Worse, Mo Morris is out with his own sprained knee, though his won't require surgery. Morris is expected to miss a couple weeks, leaving the carries to Julius Jones. I don't think I need to explain to this audience how bad this is. Combine this with the back problems Matt Hasselbeck is having and the hits he took (five sacks, nine QB hits) and you can see why Seattle has some big issues for Mike Holmgren to address. One source who watched the game this week live said "they might be better with Seneca Wallace right now. He's not a better player, but he's a better playmaker given the options."

Bumps and Bruises

Brodie Croyle was even overshadowed when he got injured. A separated shoulder will keep him out at least three weeks, longer if Damon Huard can make something happen with a woeful KC offense ... Drew Bennett is out indefinitely with a broken foot. Official word is a month, but that's a best-case scenario, especially playing on turf ... Jamal Lewis looked pretty solid, though his hamstring was sore after the Week 1 game. His recovery is going to be key to the Browns offense ... It looks like the Texans are losing patience with the oft-injured Ahman Green. He's likely to be inactive this week after spraining his ankle and could be headed out ... He's a kicker! But Mike Nugent will miss a week with a deep thigh bruise, forcing the Jets to sign Jay Feely ... Late word from the last game of Week 1 has Darren McFadden leaving with an apparent shoulder injury. There are no updates at deadline, so watch for news.

Posted by: Will Carroll on 09 Sep 2008

53 comments, Last at 13 Sep 2008, 11:18pm by Purds


by Jerry (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:21pm

"I do think this is a chance for Bill Belichick to prove what kind of coach he is. A winning record will get him Coach of the Year."

Why not look at Bilichick's success throughout his career both with and without Brady.

Before Brady: 45-57 (.418) with only one winning season out of 6.

After Brady: 86-24 (.780) with 7 out of 7 winning seasons.

It looks to me like the Patriot's success is entirely the result of Brady's talent instead of Belichick's coaching. If so, than I would guess that “Coach of the Year“ title is gonna go elsewhere.

by n0_j0 (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:32pm

Well, Jerry, You may be confusing correlation and causality.... The 6 seasons without Brady happen to be Belichick's first 6, and the 7 with Brady happen to be the most recent 7. Undoubtedly, the presence of Brady has helped Belichick's record, but without more data, it's impossible to separate that from other issues like:
- how much has Belichick's coaching improved?
- as he's had more influence over the players on his team over time, how much of an effect has that had on the record?

by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:34pm

Is Barber's cartilage injury something that will get worse if he plays? And what's the expected full recovery time for this type of injury?

by RB #25, Tulane (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:41pm

Like I said, Matt Forte > Darren McFadden.

Granted, it is that Jump To Conclusions time of year.

by morganja (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:46pm

“I do think this is a chance for Bill Belichick to prove what kind of coach he is. A winning record will get him Coach of the Year.”

Just simply amazing what two games will get you against the easiest schedule in the league. The media was all about John Fox getting fired for going 7-9 without his starting quarterback.

But 9-7 with the easiest schedule?

That's Coach of the Year.

by Ben (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:46pm

I don't think 9-7 gets BB coach of the year anyway

by Joey Jo-Jo Junior Shabbadu (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:48pm

Comparing the talent level, even sans Brady, of the 2007 Patriots with the Bledsoe Pats or the early 90s Browns is a traveshamockery.

by Joey Jo-Jo Junior Shabbadu (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:48pm

And, of course, it's 2008.

by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:54pm

"Barber strained the intracostal cartilage, the stuff between his ribs, so it only hurts when he breathes, moves, or gets hit"

Isn't that the same stuff Sammy Morris tore? If so I'd assume barber should be fine after a couple weeks of healing. Morris looks fine, but missed a lot of time.

by azibuck (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:58pm

(MB3 will) need “several” injections to play Sunday.

The report by ESPN, picked up by others, was

"The team's medical staff believes Barber could be treated with painkilling injections and the injury protected with additional padding that would improve his chances of playing in Week 2". (Emphasis mine).

Also, you're a self-important fraud. Yeeeah, this column is NEEDED "more than ever."

by coltrane23 (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 2:59pm

If nothing else, at least Wallace would be quicker than Hasselbeck. For the next few weeks, unless and until Flotsam and Jetsam pick up their game at WR, the QB will need to be able to run when the pocket breaks down immediately and no one is open. Can't throw to the TE in the seam and the outlet RB on every play.

by Tom D (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:03pm

Re 8:

And most of Belichick's coaching previous to Brady was in Cleveland.

by thestar5 (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:10pm

"I do think this is a chance for Bill Belichick to prove what kind of coach he is. A winning record will get him Coach of the Year. "

And the Patriots love-affair continues... I really hope you don't actually believe this Will. So everyone still thinks this Pats will make the Playoffs, and if they have a winning record at all, Belichick wins Coach of the Year? Hysterical. Are you joking, hopefully?

by Nick (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:16pm

I'm pretty sure Manning has worn a knee brace for several seasons now. He definitely has one on his left knee in most of the pictures i've just looked at now, is this the same knee that was operated on in the off season?

by RB #25, Tulane (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:18pm

Flotsam and Jetsam so I am not the only person way into Neopets and the NFL?!!!! Funny.

by Led (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:24pm

The Nugent injury provides for an interesting Border War sideshow. The Jets have signed Feely and need to clear a roster spot before officially announcing it. I've yet to hear who they are cutting/waiving/releasing, but it's likely to be one of their 4 QB's -- probably Ainge. And what team happens to be short a QB for this week? I can see the Pats signing Ainge while they work out longer term options, interrogate him this week and release him next week.

by Will (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:25pm

On "Coach of the Year", I'm not advocating either position. I'm saying that it tends to be an award that's given more on story than statistics. QB goes down, team wins anyway, is going to be a pretty powerful story.

Nick -- good catch. He's worn it for a while, but not consistently.

And Azibuck? Get in the ring.

by drobviousso (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:27pm

Apropos of nothing else, I assure you that modern leg and knee braces are very, very high tech stuff. The concept is simple, but the execution is mind boggling. Very much like designing an airplane.

by antimeria (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 3:37pm

how about the jags' o-line injuries? anyone have any idea how they'll handle those?

by dryheat (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 4:09pm

Isn’t that the same stuff Sammy Morris tore? No. Sammy broke the bone that connects the collarbone to the breastbone. Marian's injury is the muscles between the ribs.

Also, you’re a self-important fraud. Yeeeah, this column is NEEDED “more than ever.” As a fantasy football player, this column is required reading every week. Someday I'll understand the mentality of the poster who voluntarily reads a free article than trashes its author for no good reason.

by Admore (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 4:20pm

@10 - The whole "Injury Expert" column thing is so unnecessary to football/fantasy fans that ESPN hired their own full-time injury writer to mimic the concept Will Carroll basically created.

I'm thinking he meant something like "These days an injury column is pretty much a necessity at any self-respecting football analysis outfit."

by Sean D (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 4:28pm

If Tomlinson can play through an entire season with a bad groin, I don't think he'll have a problem with a little turf toe. Pain tolerance was not the question with Tomlinson in the playoffs, effectiveness was. He didn't think he could be as effective as the guys behind him given his injury.

by sam! (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 4:39pm


Manuwai is on IR. They signed some free agents this afternoon - details at jaguars.com.

by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 4:39pm

Man, the guy is an expert on sports injuries, and almost all the comments are about a statement he made concerning the coach of the year.

by Temo (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 4:43pm

re 24: What's with the bug that only shows a few of the comments? I only read the first 11 before posting that comment, then like 15 others pop up after I post :(

by coltrane23 (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 4:59pm

Re: #15

Nope, got no idea about Neopets. I saw Flotsam and Jetsam as the proxy names for the remaining WRs on the Seahawks roster somewhere else on FO. After Sunday, the names stuck in my mind. I was so underwhelmed with their performance that I consider the loss of "Wrong Way" Burleson to be a rather big deal.

Don't get me wrong, Burleson is nice as a 3rd or 4th WR and as a fan I'm happy to have him on the team. But right now I consider it a statement on the relative quality of the remaining WRs that I think he'll be sorely missed in Seattle for a while.

Of course, it's Jump to Conclusions week, so I may climb down off the ledge next week after SF.

by Ezra Johnson (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 5:09pm

When you watch the play and compare it to Wheeless’ notes on ACL tears, you’ll see why I didn’t initially believe that the ACL was at risk.

There's a place for injury analysis somewhere, I suppose, but this is not one of them. What difference does it make if you can tell from the TV replay (which you obviously can't) whether it's the PCL or the ACL? So you can have a 33% chance of saying I told you so the next day after the MRI?

by Jerry (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 5:37pm

n0_j0 - I'm not confusing the two.

In Belichicks first season with the Patriots, he went 5-11. In his second season, he started 0-2 with Bledsoe and then went 11-3 WITH Brady. Same team, same year, spectacularly different results.

Don't get me wrong. I like Belichick. I just want to make sure he's measured by the same standard as everyone else.

by Bobman (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 6:26pm

I don't see every Colts game but I am pretty sure Manning has work the brace every game since he got whacked in the preseason about 5-6 years ago playing against Minn. Not sure which leg, though.

by The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly (aka SJM) (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 6:45pm

Re: #20

Yeah, I don't know what sets some people off, but the complaining is really out of line. Personally, I love B&B Report, followed Will around the internet that last few years, and will read this column religiously even though I'm taking the fantasy year off.

by MJK (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 6:51pm

Why not look at Bilichick’s success throughout his career both with and without Brady.

Before Brady: 45-57 (.418) with only one winning season out of 6.

After Brady: 86-24 (.780) with 7 out of 7 winning seasons.

It looks to me like the Patriot’s success is entirely the result of Brady’s talent instead of Belichick’s coaching.

I'd be willing to wager that you could take almost any winning coach, pick whatever quarterback won the most games for him, remove all games played by that QB from consideration, and the combined win percentage from all the remaining games would be sub-0.500.

The mere fact that your're removing from a gameset any games played by a player whose presence was highly correlated with winning implies that the remaining games will have a smaller, probably significantly smaller, winning percentage.

I'm not saying that a lot of Belichick's success wasn't due to having Brady--it probably was--but you can't conclude that he is a bad coach because his games without Brady aren't as good.

For example, anyone know what Dungy's win percentage is in games without Manning? Reid's in games without Westbrook? Shanahan's in games without Elway? Holmgren in games without Favre?

Here's a hypothesis: both a good QB and a good coach are required in order to have a very good winning percentage. If this hypothesis is true, then Belichick's win percentage dropping without Brady confers no information at all regarding whether Belichick is a good coach.

by Aaron Boden (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 7:00pm


The place for injury analysis is here. I have been on this site for several years now and everyone always wants to know what the prognosis is. Having someone like Will around to explain the situiations is a godsend (whether you play fantasy football or not)

by Ezra Johnson (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 7:25pm

everyone always wants to know what the prognosis is

Sure, but unless the guy is dead, no one is going to know the prognosis merely from watching the replay on TV. No fantasy player was going to trade for Tom Brady Sunday night based on Will's initial assessment that he might only miss a few weeks. They were going to wait for, like, a doctor to tell us the actual extent of the injury.

I don't mean to denigrate the bulk of what Will does - just this silliness of trying to predict what kind of injury it is based on where and how his knee appears to have been hit on TV. Even if that kind of expertise were possible, it would be of absolutely no value in any context, because they're going to do the normal diagnostic exams anyway.

Where Will's expertise might be of value is in telling us what kind of player Brady might be when he comes back. How will this affect his mobility, etc. I doubt anyone knows the answer to that question with any certainty, either.

by Schuyler (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 7:42pm


You would lose your wager, badly. Every coach you named has a winning record coaching without the players you mentioned.

I am also perplexed as to why you went with Westbrook instead of McNabb for Reid.

by DGL (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 8:08pm

Welcome back, Will.

And Bill, why doesn't Will get the maroon treatment for his comments?

I was going to try to make some kind of pun about the intracostal waterway, but it's just not coming to me.

by Nick (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 8:14pm

It was possible to tell at the time that Brady had done his ACL. The trainer was testing his knee for anterior drawer and he had it. Unfortunately I was watching over the net and only saw this yesterday when I saw it on TV.
What you have the MRI for is to check the cartilages, collaterals and the severity of these injuries.

by MJK (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 9:04pm

You would lose your wager, badly. Every coach you named has a winning record coaching without the players you mentioned.

I am also perplexed as to why you went with Westbrook instead of McNabb for Reid.

Fair enough. I actually looked it up for those coaches and you're right. They all still have winning records after you subtract games played by the player I listed. I should really check things before I post. Too lazy... :-)

In my defense, though, each of those coaches did have a SIGNIFICANTLY lower winning percentage after you subtract the relevant games than before, albeit still slightly greater than 0.500. At least, the three that I checked (Dungy, Holmgren, Shanahan...trying to figure out which games Westbrook wasn't in for was too hard for Reid).

As to why I picked Westbrook...I actually think he's a more important part of the Eagles offense than McNabb was, especially when they had Garcia backing McNabb up. It's a rare case where the running back is not fungible. That's just a personal opinion, though...but if I have to play the Eagles, I'd rather do it facing them with McNabb and no Westbrook, than with Westbrook and Garcia. (And yes, I know, Garcia doesn't back McNabb up anymore, but I was making a point about teams in the past).

by Jerry (not the tastefully named gentleman from comments 1 &a (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 9:38pm


Please include non-"skill" player injuries in future columns; while they may not be as important to fantasy players, they're certainly important in the NFL context.

by Megamanic (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 9:54pm

Good to have you back. I suppose with Merriman now gone for the year next week's column has just about written itself.

I'd be interested to have everybodys' opinions on how good he'll come back, how much it'll cost him & how much it'll hurt the Chargers this year

by azibuck (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 9:58pm

#17, Will, I have no idea what "get in the ring" means here? Do you want to fight me, or are you challenging me to analyze injuries as well as you? Either way, you're as ass for saying it. The former for obvious reasons, the latter because I can't, but that shouldn't stop me from calling you on some of the crap you write.

You wrote in Audibles that you got a "good" look at the Brady injury. Then, later, you backed off saying you had some distant angle. My ass. You're afraid to be wrong (again). You're wrong about pretty much everything you've ever written about modern artificial turf -- except the puffiness. I have no idea if you're wrong or right about that because I haven't the slightest idea what it means.

And how is Phil Coke's labrum anyway? I don't even read you often, but virtually every time I do, you say something that I find questionable, investigate it, and it turns our you're wrong about.

I don't know how anyone can read your first paragraph here and not think you think you've got some sort of gift. The phrase "often wrong but never uncertain" fits you perfectly, and that's why I still read you. It's absurdly entertaining sometimes.

by Will (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 10:03pm

Thanks and I'm very glad to be back.

I agree. I don't put a lot of value in the instant analysis. It was such a huge injury that I jumped to conclusions based on one (bad) angle and that's my fault. I'll learn from it.

And yes, I *will* be doing the linemen a lot. So much of my time this week was focused on Brady that I wasn't able to get enough info on the Jags line, which I really wanted to write about and inexplicably left out of even Bumps. What you've seen me do on Saturday (Jeff, not the day of the week) is what I want to do more of.

by Pat (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 10:50pm

#40: The former for obvious reasons, the latter because I can’t, but that shouldn’t stop me from calling you on some of the crap you write.

I'm pretty sure he meant the latter, considering that's what "get in the ring" means.

And I have to agree with Will in that, if you're not actually trying to analyze the injuries as well, while it's perfectly fine to disagree with someone and point out a possible correction, it's the height of hubris to criticize their ability to do their job.

But, probably more importantly: why do you think any of us care what you think about Will's personality? (Hint: most likely, it's also explained by 'hubris.')

by jerry (not verified) :: Tue, 09/09/2008 - 11:21pm

#31 Again, just so you know I like Belichick. It's just given how much of his success has revolved around Brady put with the fact of how his disciples (Weis, Mangini and Crennel) have, or have not, performed compared to that Holmgren, Reid and Gruden tree thing that gives me doubt/concern about the Patriots coming season.

Given the whole Spygate debacle that still lingers, I would hate for him to have to endure a losing season. That would be the finale "legacy" killer and I would hate for that to happen to a man who seems to love football as much as he does.

by Andrew (not verified) :: Wed, 09/10/2008 - 12:43am

azibuck #10:

Have you ever damaged your rib cartilege? It is literally breathtaking. You cough or sneeze and double over in pain. You try to run and after three steps you are ready to keel over from the pain. You try to lift a heavy object and you wince from the pain of lifting your arms with a strain.

Yes, you can walk around and breath lightly and lift light objects without pain, but that doesn't really describe football, does it?

It takes about 3 full weeks to become pain free from this injury. Normally, a runningback would sit out the immediate game after the injury, play sparingly in the following one, and be back full speed for the third. If MB3 is going to play Monday, he's going to need a ton of injections, and then careful monitoring to make sure he hasn't done anything to worsen the injury while playing, since its not as though he'll feel it.

by Andrew (not verified) :: Wed, 09/10/2008 - 12:52am

MJK #31:

"I’d be willing to wager that you could take almost any winning coach, pick whatever quarterback won the most games for him, remove all games played by that QB from consideration, and the combined win percentage from all the remaining games would be sub-0.500."

Andy Reid is 17-19 without McNabb. Very close to 500. He's 14-12 without McNabb since 2000.

by Godjesus (not verified) :: Wed, 09/10/2008 - 3:26am

Is it just me or is like, every key position player on every roster recovering from or suffering through some sort of injury?

If they're going to expand the season to 17 or 18 games they're going to have to do something, be it better equipment or rule changes, to better protect the players.

I don't know, maybe they could ban making deliberate contact with a player's legs in order to bring him down?

by putnamp (not verified) :: Wed, 09/10/2008 - 4:12am

seattle guard rob sims is out for the season as well \o/

by GoodKingJohn (not verified) :: Wed, 09/10/2008 - 7:26am

"I do think this is a chance for Bill Belichick to prove what kind of coach he is. A winning record will get him Coach of the Year."

are you kidding me? so, he could go 9-7; 7 games worse than last year, 3.5 games worse than the projection, and he is coach of the year?? Brady is worth MORE than 3.5 wins????? come on, nobody is!!!

for the first time in my three years of reading FO, a writer has lost credibility.

by TGT (not verified) :: Wed, 09/10/2008 - 11:40am

@3 I'm not a doctor, but I had the same injury this past summer. MBIII is not going to cause long term damage by playing, but he's going to pay for it all week if he plays. Pretend every regular breath you take all week is like getting punched in the chest. Deep breaths while practices/playing are even worse.

The pain when breathing can not be overstated. One of the relatively common after effects of the injury is a collapsed lung, due to the body automatically taking shallower breaths that don't fully inflate the lungs. When was the last time you heard of someone getting neumonia because they strained a muscle?

My strain was relatively minor, but I was still out of non-contact sports for two weeks, and was extremely wary of incidental contact when I came back. Each hit MBIII takes to the chest (both by defenders and the ground) is a chance to extend the heal time of the strain.

by Tundrapat (not verified) :: Wed, 09/10/2008 - 9:21pm

@49 - I'm also not a doctor, but I don't play one on TV.

Having said that, I think Manning should keep wearing the knee brace for a knee that may not need it. It's also my uninformed opinion that the Colts should fit Addai with a polypropylene headbrace to treat his non-concussion.

Azibuck - while Raiderjoe's comments (on most other FO threads) are ridiculous yet entertaining, yours fail in the latter category. Go write speeches and recite them in your bathroom.

by iapetus (not verified) :: Thu, 09/11/2008 - 8:32am

41: I'm not even sure the Jaguars have an offensive line to report on any more. The entire interior is injured, Manuwai and Williams out for the season, Meester not expected back until after the bye week at the earliest. Richard Collier's been shot and is still in a critical state (won't be playing this year, and I'm starting to doubt he'll ever play again given the lack of official comment and the rumours). Backup guard (now starter) Uche Nwaneri's on the injury report with a knee problem of some description. And to ensure consistency across the line, we've just signed Todd Wade. It's a great pickup because it'll save the team some time - he was already injured when we signed him, so we don't have to find a way to injure him once he's on the roster.

Did I mention that the sky is falling? And the way things are going, it'll probably land on Tutan Reyes...

by putnamp (not verified) :: Fri, 09/12/2008 - 6:49pm

marcus trufant wearing a cast on his hand for sunday's game too.

pretty much gonna be a great season for seattle. \nn/

by Purds :: Sat, 09/13/2008 - 11:18pm


You must have missed this when you were gone, but Dallas Clark is a wide receiver. He's not a 250+ pound tight end, according to FO, because, well, he catches too many passes? Anyway, make sure you get with the party line here.