Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 13 Open Discussion Thread

* Thursday, Nov 27
o Tennessee at Detroit, 12:30 pm
o Seattle at Dallas, 4:15 pm
o Arizona at Philadelphia, 8:15 pm
* Sunday, Nov 30
o San Francisco at Buffalo, 1:00 pm
o Baltimore at Cincinnati, 1:00 pm
o Indianapolis at Cleveland, 1:00 pm
o Carolina at Green Bay, 1:00 pm
o Denver at N.Y. Jets, 1:00 pm
o Miami at St. Louis, 1:00 pm
o New Orleans at Tampa Bay, 1:00 pm
o N.Y. Giants at Washington, 1:00 pm
o Atlanta at San Diego, 4:05 pm
o Pittsburgh at New England, 4:15 pm
o Kansas City at Oakland, 4:15 pm
o *Chicago at Minnesota, 8:15 pm
* Monday, Dec 1
o Jacksonville at Houston, 8:30 pm


by el plaga :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 2:56pm

Your not late at all its only 35-3 tennessee.

by el plaga :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 2:56pm

sorry, should be you're

by jurb :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:00pm

This Titans/Lion "game" might be the one that finally puts an end to the tradition of the Lions and Cowboys playing on Thanksgiving. The networks can't be too happy having to show the Lions every year.

by andrew :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:01pm

The Lions have solved their problem of blowing early leads....

by Tybalt the Greenish (not verified) :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:05pm

I guess the Lions are taking time out from not being able to stop the pass by spending today not being able to stop the run. This is lovely if you hate football.

by el plaga :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:10pm

somebody talked about that lions song they play after they score and how lame it is. You can hear it on cbs as they show they replay and man that song does stink.

by jurb :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:23pm

Lions fans, now that you've wasted your Thanksgiving by spending a lot of money on overpriced tickets to watch this horrible team get embarrassed on national television, enjoy our halftime entertainment!

by Rocco :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:37pm

Should I watch the 2nd half of Titans-Lions or The Godfather on AMC?

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:43pm

Lions are the worst defense of the modern era.

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:44pm

and they hired Daunte Culpepper, the Stephon Marbury of the NFL.

I say they go winless. If they don't, they certainly did all they could to do it.

The year after the Patriots go 16-0 and lose the Super Bowl, the Lions go 0-16 and win the... Oh wait.

by jimbohead :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:02pm

maybe they can lose the rights to the first overall draft pick. would that be equivalent?

by MilkmanDanimal :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:00pm

The equivalent would be letting Millen come back and make the pick.

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:47pm

McDonald ran backwards and lost yardage on the punt return. Lions football!

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:50pm

Phil Simms doesn't want to be there.

The Lions got a false start and then a delay of game (they decided they missed the play clock too) on a play earlier.

Culpepper just threw one right to a Titans DB and it was dropped. Lions were also holding on the play.

This is amazing.

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:51pm

My theory:

The Lions are usually bad but there's some good element of the team and that gets magnified on Thanksgiving. This year there's nothing good about the team so the suckitude gets magnified.

by el plaga :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 3:53pm

Calvin Johnson is having trouble catching passes because they keep going through the hands of a titans player first.

by dedkrikit (not verified) :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:09pm

for Titans fans, this is great... I can simply enjoy a bloated stomach w/o worry of an anxious finish. (plus now I can just root for fantasy reasons!)

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:12pm

Adam Jennings is a terrible football player

by jds (not verified) :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:12pm

Do we see VY in the fourth?

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:19pm

So the Titans got blown out at home against the Jets. They're running up the score on the Lions in Michigan. Let's imagine that you could use transitive properties in sports. If the Lions were to go the Meadowlands and play the Jets...

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:25pm

VINCE YOUNG is in there.

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:34pm

Bironas going after his record from last year. All from 40 and beyond this time, though

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:36pm

Bironas good from 49, 41, 43, and 45.

He just needs to hit from 47 now.

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:38pm

Calvin Johnson comes through in garbage time again with a great catch and Fisher doesn't want a long catch on the record so he's challenging.


by BucKai :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 12:09am

I caught that too. Poor sportsmanship IMO. Up by a seasons worth of scores, the opponent gets one decent reception and you challenge it? Why bother? This was Varsity vs. JV from the outset.

by John (not verified) :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 9:59am

As a fan of a divisional rival, I've always had a great deal of respect for Fisher, but that challenge definitely dropped my estimation of him down a notch or two.

Dunno, maybe his mad scientist brain (often evident against the Colts) was working like this: "If I challenge that great catch, and it stands, the Lions will feel like they gained a small victory over me, and they won't feel so humiliated by this loss, and won't be out for revenge next time we play them."

Yeah, that's the ticket.

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 4:39pm

Tennessee loses a timeout! They're down to one left! This could be critical!

by fyo :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 5:20pm

Rob Bironas beat the Lions 17-10. No need for any touchdowns.

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 5:35pm

yay another blowout

happy thanksgiving football fans!

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 5:36pm

fyo, do you mean 15-10?

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 5:36pm

ah, with the extravpoints. I see.

by fyo :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 6:32pm

12-0 without extra points, 17-0 with. Never 15 ;)

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 5:44pm

early fumble in detroit leads to a blowout

early fumble in dallas leads to a blowout

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 6:00pm

the ref is drunk. he pointed the wrong way

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 6:48pm

Brian Russell is a pretty horrible player

by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 7:22pm

Lions worst tema in football but Rams and Chiefs not too fra behind

by Sid :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 8:13pm

So a pass-rushing LB was singled up on Owens. Nice job by the Seattle coaching staff.

We then saw ROBO PUNTER's spirit possess Jon Ryan for a play. That was a thing of beauty. Pretty awful game, although at least Seattle has a competent QB, unlike Detroit.

by CathyW :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:09pm

Is anyone else actually watching Cardinals-Eagles or am I just torturing myself needlessly?

by Crus :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:32pm

I'm watching but, it being nearly 1:30am here, I'll probably go watch from bed until I fall asleep and then catch up via GamePassHD later. I'm not holding my breath for everything to be roses for us so soon, but I will be watching our OL to see if JJax is showing enough to warrant keeping his job next season.

by CathyW :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:37pm

So far the Eagles look pretty good - got a TD on their first drive, then intercepted Warner, and the offense is back on the field. I'm almost afraid to look...where has this team been all season! And as I type that, Westie had a nice carry for a first down.

ETA: Westbrook just ran it in for the second Eagles TD. He's had both, one receiving and one rushing. I don't think you can overstate Westbrook's importance to this team when he is healthy.

by Crus :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:44pm

I'm surprised, if not shocked. Westbrook looks healthy so far, I hope it holds. 5 passes, 9ish runs.. has someone unplugged Andy's headset mic without telling him? Do they realise that the dark secret hidden at the heart of Eagles playcalling is that, similar to the movie Speed, if the Pass vs Run % goes below a certain level for more than a few posessions Andy Reid will explode?

by CathyW :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:44pm

Wow! Two Cardinals possessions, two interceptions by Warner! Ay carumba!

by CathyW :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:47pm

Shoot, McNabb sacked.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 9:58pm

The Cards are who we thought they were.

by CathyW :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:01pm

Another TD pass from McNabb to Westbrook. 21-0 Eagles.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:03pm

I can't be the only one who is watching this game saying, "Gee, I'm sure glad I started Slaton and Ryan Grant and left Westbrook on the bench this week", can I?

I'll be off smashing my head into a wall if anybody needs me . . .

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:06pm

Only about 26 fantasy points in the first 23 minutes of play.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:12pm


by troycapitated p... :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 11:36pm

I'm right there with you, buddy...

I even have Slaton as an option.

I also left McNabb on the bench in favor of Flacco or Roethlisberger. Could easily end up regretting that one, too.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:21pm

Wow that was a terrible drop.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:39pm

How the hell does he make that the spot ?

*edit, glad the officials conferred to get it right.

by auntbea (not verified) :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 11:17pm

Another terrible reffing job on that play. yes,they eventually got the spot right, but then they should have restarted the clock as forward progress was stopped inbounds. the eagles caught a break there, of course it did not matter.

by troycapitated p... :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 11:38pm

Re: FireOmarTomlin

Judging by your screen name, I'm guessing you won't get satisfaction any time soon...

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 10:57am

I'll settle for a consolation prize of firing Bruce Arians.

by CathyW :: Thu, 11/27/2008 - 11:21pm

4th td of the game for westbrook.

by CathyW :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 12:20am

INT by Brian Dawkins ices the game...34th career interception by Dawkins. Now Kolb comes in on clean-up.

Where the hell has this Eagles team been all year? They opened a complete can of whup-ass on the Cardinals, with the score right now at 48-20.

by Harris :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 12:48am

I blame myself. Whenever I'm off doing something else, this team runs roughshod. When I'm on the coach screaming at the TV, they stink on toast. Looks like I'm skipping the next few weeks. Oh, and there will be raspberry jam tonight!

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by CathyW :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 10:34am

I hope you, um, enjoyed your raspberry jam, but I have to say, Yikes!

by Rocco :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 11:16am

Obviously the Eagles found out they dropped to 4th in DVOA and wanted to rectify that quickly. This should vault them back to 2nd place.

by Crus :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 12:25am

The opponent choosing 3 passes from 2nd and 1 leading to an INT? A 100yd rushing game from Westbrook? Lorenzo Booker consistently making positive yards? Cardinals receivers dropping easy catches?

Who declared this opposite day?

by John (not verified) :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 10:11am

Gotta channel my inner Easterbrook for a moment: Seattle, you're 2-9 in a division where 7 wins just might be enough to go the playoffs, you're down 34-9 in the 4th quarter, and you face 4th and 5 at midfield. Why are you punting?

Now you're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, and somewhere Shaun Alexander is laughing.

by electricmayhem :: Fri, 11/28/2008 - 12:09pm

and somewhere Shaun Alexander is laughing

The unemployment office?

by Rollo (not verified) :: Sat, 11/29/2008 - 2:27pm

Is there any chance of seeing the player matchups for tomorrow? I'm lost without them.

by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 3:55am


Where are you from rollo?

by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 12:26pm

Be sure to join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for IRC football chat! cognet.catch22.org, channel #fo

Brief tutorial for the IRC-shy:

- Download mIRC from mIRC.com
- type /server cognet.catch22.org into the status window
- type /join #fo

by Dave Bernreuther :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:34pm

Can anyone explain this play in the Giants game? From the ESPN gamecast:

Manning complete to A. Toomer for 15 yards to WAS 16. Penalty - Personal Foul D Hall, enforced from WAS 31, 15 yards, no play (late hit)

I don't quite get how a late hit would make it no play. It's not as if the whistle blew it dead before the completion happened.

Was it 3rd and 20 so they took the penalty and free first down instead of the completion? Or is the gamecast just off?

by dmb :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:42pm

Gamecast was off; the play counted.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier!

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:39pm

Matt Bryant set up a 38 FG starting about 5 yards right of the right upright, and by the time it went through the pipes it was already left of the goalpost. Crazy wind/rain there.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:42pm

Lee Evans keep going through the whistle, idiot!!!!

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:43pm

Derek Anderson auditioning for his job next year, in full Captain Checkdown mode... 6/6 for 24 yards.

by Purds :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:48pm

Brackett goes down as the Colts try to match the Patriots once again, this time in number of injuries.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:54pm

Ryan Lindell misses a FG from about 20 yards

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:56pm

Jake DelHomme rushing TD looked like a guy in slow motion LOL.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 2:59pm

Can Ted Ginn catch anything ?

Pathetic drop.

by tylerdolphin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:20pm

His hands are actually good most of the time. He's had a few bad drops the last two weeks though...

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:00pm

Portis knocked out after a nice forearm shiver.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:04pm

Overpursue much, Giants Defense?

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:08pm

LMAO @ the Colts

by Purds :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 4:49pm

Keep chuckling.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:11pm

Great design play there on 4th and 3 to give Garcia an easy running 1st down

by Zac (not logged in) (not verified) :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:15pm

Just saw an official in the Carolina-Green Bay game telling a Carolina lineman to move to the right so that he could avoid a penalty on an extra point kick. I'm guessing it was the penalty about lining too many people up over the long snapper, but there's no way officials should be coaching players on how to avoid penalties.

by David :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:49pm

I disagree - the officials are trying to make the game run smoothly without anyone breaking any rules

by Bjorn Nittmo (not verified) :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:15pm

That was just a godawful call overturning Corey Webster's INT for Giants v. Redskins. Handed the Redskins 7 points on that drive.

by dmb :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:28pm

Right, because the refs sure sold that misdirection well on the Devin Thomas reverse.

Seriously, it was a bad call, but it looked like it was technically correct, even if it was extremely "ticky-tack." The same could not be said about the incomplete throw to Randle El with 3:30 left in the game.

by Mark S. (not verified) :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:45pm

Well, obviously they never get to run that reverse without the call.

I think it was a pretty terrible call, and that seems to be the prevailing opinion - the announcers said it was bad, the halftime guys said it was bad, and Matt Mosely over on ESPN said it was bad. Didn't make much of a difference though.

by dmb :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:53pm

It's certainly true that the Redskins wouldn't have gotten to run the reverse there, but that's not the same as "handing them seven points." Screwing up that call didn't incapacitate the Giants' defense for the rest of the drive.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think it was a good call. I'm just saying that it might not have been the worst call of the game, and that the occasional incompetence swung both ways.

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:28pm

another Manning stopped short on a 4th down QB sneak?

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:51pm


by Bobman :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 12:07am

Strangely, I have yet to see a Colts fan pay back the laughter after the 10-6 win and all the gifts the Browns could not capitalize on. A civilized lot, we are.

by Dave Bernreuther :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:34pm

What is OHara's status in the Giants game? Did he come back after getting hurt?

by dmb :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:34pm

He came back, though I'm not sure when exactly -- either the announcers neglected to mention it (which wouldn't surprise me), or I somehow missed it. I do know that he played at least most of the second half, if not more...

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 3:38pm

The Bucs barely, just barely, miss two INTs just prior to halftime and it turns into a Saints TD. So close.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 4:57pm

Gruden thinks a FG with 2:00 to go is enough to beat the Aints ?

Wayyyy too conservative there.

Julius Peppers undiscplined PF late hit on Rodgers could cost them the game. :(

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 4:58pm

Ryan Lindell pretty much single handedly loses the game for the Bills LOL

by dmb :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:46pm

If you don't score a single touchdown against the Niners, your kicker probably isn't the biggest concern.

Before this game, only two teams had scored fewer than twenty points against the Niners: the Lions and the Rams, who scored 13 and 16, respectively. Even if Lindell made the 20- and 40-yarders, and made a field goal on the 4th down with 1:13 left, that still gives the Bills a total of twelve points -- and the Niners would be getting the ball back, needing a field goal to win, with one minute and three timeouts left. So even if Lindell were perfect, it still wouldn't have guaranteed a win ... but more to the point, if they needed Lindell to be perfect in order to win, then there are probably other issues to be focusing on.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:01pm

Bucks defense with two huge late picks on Drew Brees

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:40pm

My throat is raw from screaming at the TV. I'm still twitchy 45 minutes later.

If only the Packers could have done something crazy, like maybe cover the Panthers' only deep threat when trying to hold onto a lead with a couple minutes left in the game. I mean, in that situation, why would you want to double-cover Steve Smith? Silly idea.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:02pm


by James-London :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:03pm

Steve Smith is awesome.

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:08pm


If Simms is a cretin though, what does that make Jim "Spike it on 4th Down" Nantzyboy ?

by James-London :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:12pm

The Cretins Apprentice.

Beason ends the game for Carolina.

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:12pm

Aaron Rodgers channeling his inner Favre there floating one into 4x coverage with 1:00+ and 2 TO's left.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:23pm

Goddammit Big Ben

by Rocco :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:30pm

Wow, the refs threw a flag against the Pats. I imagine Hochuli will be reprimanded for that.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:35pm

Wow Matt Light just clotheslined Harrison with no flag there on that sack that Cassel took.

TERRIBLE officiating.

by Rocco :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:50pm

You're surprised? Harrison has gotten mauled all year and the refs won't flag it. Meanwhile, the Steelers get flagged or fined for hitting people too hard or being intimidating. I guess those things happen when the refs are targeting you.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:28pm

another massive hold by light again and harrison still gets there for the sack and better yet the strip!

by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 4:00am


I would be inclined to agree there were at least 8 flags that should've been thrown on NE in that game that weren't Horrible horrible officiating

by panthersnbraves :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:35pm

I didn't realize that the announcers' man-crush on Favre was transferable to Favre II. No mention of the 2 INT's the Panthers dropped. "The Packers have dominated the second half" might be true, but then the Panthers must have also dominated the first half!

Also - once again the Fox production crew can't get a replay right. Why were we treated to 20 seconds of Rodgers taking off his chinstrap, when the Panthers are all signalling incomplete pass? At least show it!!!!!! I have got to just listen on the radio. The Fox team can't seem to get a game right, no matter who they put out there.

by panthersnbraves :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:37pm

Oh, what's the over on how much Peppers gets fined on the hit?

by B :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:40pm

Wait, what oozes out of Mike Tomlin? Confidence? Swagger? Old Spice?

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:45pm

arrogance, hardheadedness, and stupidity.
and a reliance on Bruce Arians.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:42pm

QUIT TRYING TO RUN IT LG/LT ARIANS/OMAR You can't do it without Smith in there.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 5:47pm

Did Dan Beerdork not get the memo that the Steelers resigned Najeh Davenport (again) this week. They have a heavy goal line back.... if they want to use him ....

by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 4:08am


by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 4:09am

Yeah but he is right the steelers haven't been able to replace that hevy hitting run attack since bettis left. Davenport is good but he's no bettis.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:08pm

It's getting really tiresome watching the Steelers Offense. Same predictable playcalls, same pathetic lack of concentration, same miscommunication between Ben and Holmes on 3rd down routes.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:09pm

If they lose this game, they'll miss the playoffs after an 8-3 start that coulda/shoulda been at least 9-2


by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 4:04am


I would have to disagree there though The off. line of the burgh has stepped it up these last few games which has given ben more time to make things happen. Though i still believe that Mr. rooney should take starks and essex's contracts and wipe his A$$ with them!

by Mark S. (not verified) :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:11pm

Rich Gannon needs to stop saying that Jay Cutler looks comfortable with wet balls.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:27pm

Who called that timeout? Eddie Guns said it was on the Pats, BeerDork said on the Steelers

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:42pm

Is there a worse pair of hands in the NFL than Ike Taylor's? He's dropped at least 10 INTs the last 2 seasons.

And is it remotely possible the modern football is a bit slicker in the rain than BeerDork remembers the old ball to be ?

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:50pm

Mike Carey = tard.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 6:54pm

Terrible job by FOX there. How is there no better replay angle and slowmo shot ?

by Harris :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:07pm

I might be more amenable to a buyout for American car makers if Ford didn't have the money to run 11 ads for their over-sized, impractical, gas-guzzing F150 every single commercial break.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by B :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:14pm

But it has sway control? How else am I going to tow my boat? And with the economy collapsing, I'll soon be living in my boat, so this is important.

by B :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:14pm

But it has sway control. How else am I going to tow my boat? And with the economy collapsing, I'll soon be living in my boat, so this is important.

by dianagram :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:17pm

As a side note, there is a bit of squawking here in NYC regarding the billions being given to Citigroup, given that they are giving the Mets $400 million over the next 20 years for naming rights to the new stadium.

by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 4:15am

In reply to harris's celery comment

Put down the weed and step away from the lighter.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:13pm

oh, look someone told BeerDork during Halftime that the Steelers had resigned Najeh Davenport and now he can't quit talking about him.

Choke on a fat one, moron.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:18pm

Only OmarTardlin would be fist pumping about settling for a FG there.

by David Kelly (not verified) :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:24pm

Anybody else see KC actually throwing to #88 against Asomugha? This might be the most action he's seen all year...

by Harris :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:29pm

Sack and strip by Harrison. Stillers ball on the Patriots 30. Stillers leading 20-10.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:32pm

OmarTardlin fist pumping again about settling for a FG there.

Absolutely terrible RZ play calling.

by Harris :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:43pm

Man, what is with your hard-on over Tomlin? The guy has a .667 winning percentage and two division titles in two years and he did it with an OL that has no interest in protecting the QB. Damn, learn to enjoy some friggin' success. You're almost as bad Rick A.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by dmb :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 8:06pm

This is only his second year, so he doesn't have two division titles yet ... though he's certainly put himself in a decent position to win his second this year.

But I strongly agree with your main point -- the griping gets old real quick!

by Harris :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 8:13pm

My mistake. Pro Football Reference gave him two titles.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Rocco :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 8:15pm

Seriously. Tomlin's not perfect, but he's learning on the job and he's not killing the team. He took over a veteran team that was fiercely loyal to the old coach and they haven't missed a beat. My only complaint is that he hasn't given the d-line permission to flog Arians and Zierlein (the o-line coach) on a daily basis in practice.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 8:18pm

I refuse to believe anyone who would keep Bruce Arians around this long is qualified to be a head coach. I also believe the Steelers drafting under him has been a complete failure except for 1 good find in Woodley. Since this team doesn't pay for free agents, continuing to be a top 5 drafter is critical.

It's my $.02, and I'm welcome to feel however I feel about it. Aside from the OL (which is certainly no worse than last year) , everthing is in place for this team to have 2-3 more elite seasons. Unfortunately, with the failures in recent drafts they don't have anything ahead of them beyond that window.

by dmb :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:06pm

I agree that Arians is awful.

I also agree that you're welcome to feel however you want about whatever you want.

I just happen to think that when you're regularly complaining as your favorite team is on its way to a 33-10 win ... and that victory is over a likely playoff team ... and that victory puts your team at 9-3 ... and most of your comments (including your name) are made in a somewhat-sarcastic-but-not-particularly-funny manner ... well, I don't think you should be too surprised when people react negatively toward your comments.

About Pittsburgh's drafting:

First, I think it's awfully early to decide that the past two drafts are failures; it seems like that sort of thing is usually pretty difficult to decide until at least three years afterward. I will, however, admit that the early returns haven't been too promising.

I don't know enough about the unofficial workings of the Steelers' front office to know who's really responsible for their recent drafts, though I do know that they have a Director of Football Operations, a College Scouting Coordinator, four-and-a-half College Scouts (one scouts college and professional players), and someone labeled simply "College Personnel." When at least seven of the twelve people working in the "Football Operations" area of your front office are dedicating substantial time toward the draft, I think it probably makes sense to spread the blame for your draft-related dissatisfaction. Also, I recognize the Director of Football Operations and the College Scouting Coordinator, as well as at least one of the college scouts (Kevin Colbert, Ron Hughes, and Dan Rooney, respectively) as holdovers from the Cowher days.

by JMM :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 12:11am

The Steelers organization has both Tomlin (Head Coach) and Colbert (Director of football Operations) reporting to Art Rooney II (President.) Colbert and Tomlin agree on the draft board with Art providing whatever input he deems appropriate (such as breaking ties.) I have never seen any discussion of any details indicating details of who wanted what player since Donohue left before Colbert arrived.

by Harris :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:10pm

It's silly to complain about the drafting of a second-year head coach who doesn't serve as GM, but for the sake of argument: Woodley is a starter and Timmons, Gay and Spaeth are solid contributors. Mendenhall was part of the rotation until he got hurt. Other rookies like Sweed, Hills and Dixon haven't done much, but they are rookies, afterall. The only true bust was Sepulveda. So, in two drafts, the Steelers have picked up at least four guys who are helping the team and at least a few more who are expected to help the team soon. That's pretty damned good, especially since we're talking about a fairly deep, veteran team. Calling Tomlin's drafts failures is utter nonsense.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Rocco :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:29pm

I'm not sure Sepulveda is a bust- he was fine last year and blew out his knee this year. I'd probably still rather have him punting with one leg instead of the Berger/Ernster combo.

by Harris :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:40pm

Whoops. I got him confused with Berger.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 4:23am


To rocco about the Sepulveda comment AMEN BROTHER PREACH ON!!!!!!!

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:36pm

Wes Welker just got assassinated.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:41pm

Steelers better give Harrison a contract rewewal ASAP.

holy crap what a beast.

by Rocco :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:45pm

The Steelers defense has been immense in the second half. I'm still terrified they'll fall apart in the 4th quarter but so far they've gotten the job done and then some.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 7:52pm

Delay handoffs are killlllling the Steelers D.

by Steelerfan1977 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 4:28am


Dear fireomartomlin,

I may not agree with everything you say or all your opinions but you are right about one thing that sombitch does look like omar epps!

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 8:12pm

Timmons Epic Fail there actually helps the Steelers by using even more time off the clock.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 8:31pm

JETS collapse today certainly keeps MIA and NE alive in hopes of the AFC EAST.... MIA schedule sure is easy from here on out. Could it happen ?

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:06pm

A factor tonight that could be overlooked is that we have Hester in a dome, as opposed to cold weather.

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:15pm

double post

by cd6 :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:38pm

You know what was fun? Watching the Steelers utter dismantling of the Patriots in New England.

I can't tell what was my favorite:
-The 33 unanswered points
-The Pat's horrific third down conversion stat
-The fact that the Pats had 4 straight possessions end in turnovers + a fifth if you throw in the kickoff return fumble

Maybe Belichick needs to spend a little less time whining about "unsportsmanlike conduct" penalties and more time teaching his team that you're supposed to hold on to the ball.

Good luck to whatever franchise is dumb enough to hand their starting job to Matt Cassell. He might be the only QB in the league who gives Ben a run for the money in holding the ball too long.

Lastly, here's the required comment bitching about the refs. Another week, another laughable disparity in penalties. That hit on Welker, was legal. Let em play some football.

Go steelers!!

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:42pm

Hester TD, just like that.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 9:57pm

Aaaaaaand the Vikings special teams strike again. The ball is batted back to the 1 where it's going to come to a stop and let the Vikes down it there. Instead, they slide forward, touching the ball with a leg in the end zone. Maybe they should just try to throw interceptions on 3rd down so they can avoid special teams entirely?

by andrew :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 10:07pm

Sheez Frerotte has gone downhill this year. He's not even close on most of his throws...

I hate to say it but T-Jack would be an improvement.

by Key19 :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 10:23pm

Was Frerotte really injured on that late hit? It didn't look like the kind of hit that would leave him lying motionless on his face.

As for the missed call, what is going on in the NFL this year??? First it was phantom roughing the passer calls, and now it's missed roughing the passer calls! NFL refs really need to step up or it will hurt the game and its fanbase.

Also, the illegal contact penalty on the Giants today was absolutely ridiculous. Saw it on Football Night in America and was flabbergasted.

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 10:29pm

Really late hit on Frerotte. Amazing that the refs missed it.

The Vikings special teams are really, really bad.

That play by the end zone reminds me of a Jets play where this idiot Spencer decided to slide with the ball into the end zone, when any idiot could've just stood over it and downed it.

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 10:34pm

I can't believe Chris Williams isn't starting ahead of St. Clair.

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 10:38pm

what an incredible turnaround.

by Rocco :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 10:40pm

Well, that's one way to flip field position- the 99 yard bomb.

by andrew :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 10:54pm

Okay, I guess I have to admit T-Jack wouldn't have been an improvement.

by andrew :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 11:00pm

48 seconds and the bears don't even try anything? hmmm.

by andrew :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 11:05pm

17-7 at the half. Huge turnaround following that goal line stand.

This game could not feel more different than the shootout we saw last time.

Peterson has 100 yards, but that was breaking one huge run, two or three where he dragged half the team for around 10 yards, and the rest were 2 yards or less it seems. Which in theory would make it difficult to control the ball in the second half, but we'll see... the Vikings didn't seem content to sit on the 10-7 lead by just running the ball, and it paid off, especially given that the Bears were probably overplaying the run.

Will be interesting to see if the Bears are forced to respect Frerotte and the pass more in the second half. If I were them I would not. Not because of Frerotte's failings, but because that would open them up to Peterson.

The Bears offense on the other hand... they have to find something with the tight ends taken away.

by Sid :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 11:22pm

The Bears just went from 1st and 5 to 4th and 16. 3 plays net -11 yards.

by andrew :: Sun, 11/30/2008 - 11:37pm

Okay the Bears defense did their part to get them back in the game. Now the Bears offense.....

and Orton throws a pick as I write that.

by B :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 9:59pm

Back to back interceptions? I can't believe these two teams are both 4-7.

by Key19 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 10:55pm

You can't judge a team by their backup QB (also see Dallas).

You can certainly judge the GM and Head Coach for having a lame backup, but you can't say the team doesn't match their record when their backup QB is in.

As far as Jacksonville's concerned, they just have no O-line. I feel for them.

by Key19 :: Mon, 12/01/2008 - 11:09pm

Toyota... will... not... stop...