Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 15 Game Discussion Thread

* Thursday, Dec 11
o New Orleans at Chicago, 8:15 pm
* Sunday, Dec 14
o Minnesota at Arizona, 4:05 pm
o Tampa Bay at Atlanta, 1:00 pm
o Pittsburgh at Baltimore, 1:00 pm
o Denver at Carolina, 1:00 pm
o Washington at Cincinnati, 1:00 pm
o Tennessee at Houston, 1:00 pm
o Detroit at Indianapolis, 1:00 pm
o Green Bay at Jacksonville, 1:00 pm
o San Diego at Kansas City, 1:00 pm
o San Francisco at Miami, 1:00 pm
o Buffalo at N.Y. Jets, 1:00 pm
o Seattle at St. Louis, 1:00 pm
o New England at Oakland, 4:15 pm
o *N.Y. Giants at Dallas, 8:15 pm
* Monday, Dec 15
o Cleveland at Philadelphia, 8:30 pm


by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 9:19pm

Well, that was about the worst possible start for the Saints.

Remind me again why I took them in my PickEm League?

*bangs head violently against desk*

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 9:25pm

I guess Brees was thinking taking that 16 yard sack would give the punter more room to work.

luckily for him, the officials called defensive holding.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 9:27pm

Looked like Lance Moore was expecting to get Welker'd and gave up on that route.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 9:30pm

Forte going to the Trainer's Table after his 1st carry.


by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 9:32pm

Soldier Field doing its best Heinz Field impression.

by Anonymous (not verified) (not verified) :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 9:40pm

Wait wait, Hester loses 7 on a punt return, and then we lose 9 more on a penalty?

Special teams hurt me sometimes...

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 10:00pm

Collinsworth's cohort "Bush under pressure and takes the sack" .... ummmmmm..... no.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 10:06pm

Kreutz/Orton hand the Saints a TD practically. LOL.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 10:11pm

Saints Kick Coverage Group FTL

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 10:13pm

Jason David FTL

by asp_j (not verified) :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 10:24pm

Be sure to join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for IRC football chat! There's a change this week, due to a power-hungry Fnor forcing a movie to his server. The new server is bendenweyr.dyndns.org, channel still #fo

Brief tutorial for the IRC-shy:

- Download mIRC from mIRC.com
- type /server bendenweyr.dyndns.org into the status window
- type /join #fo

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 10:25pm

HOW THE HELL did the refs miss that incompletion on the field in real time ?

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 11:29pm

Wow that was a late hit to the head.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 11:39pm

Collinsworth's cohort just called Brees "Orton"

How can it be so hard to find commentators that actually know ANYTHING about the sport they are paid to cover ?

by BucNasty :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 11:44pm

At least get the QB's right. It's not like they're obscure or get subbed in and out.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 11:51pm

Wow, Saints down 21-17, with 2 turnovers apiece but outgaining the Bears 320-140 in "Yards" . Maybe it's time for the NFL and TV channels to start putting Return Yards up on the screen also.

rolls eyes

by BucNasty :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 11:56pm

Wow. Colbert award winner.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 12/12/2008 - 12:01am

Leave it to 60,000 drunk fans to boo the right call.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 12/12/2008 - 12:05am

LMAO @ the 4th and inches sweep

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 12/12/2008 - 12:08am

LMAO @ the BooBirds now calling for SexyRexy

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 12/12/2008 - 12:10am

Why is Shockey even on the field. What a useless waste of space.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 12/12/2008 - 12:17am

No, they would be 62 yards away, right now, Collinsworth. Close though, only off by 10 yards.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 12/12/2008 - 12:23am

Bears had 150 yards of Offense basically until taking that kickoff at the 30 with 3:00 to play. The Saints go in the "prevent", and now the Bears are now in easy FG position, some 55 yards later.

Play to win, not to not lose .... please.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Fri, 12/12/2008 - 12:27am

Collinsworth is right, they should have let him run there.

by BucNasty :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 1:22pm

All bets are off! Brian Griese's starting.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 2:09pm

Chris Cooley just got absolutely leveled.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 2:13pm

Apparently the Redskins didn't get the memo that Fitzpatrick likes to run the ball.

by Shane S. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 2:31pm

my choices for the early games are...SD-KC...and that's it, since fox figures those of us living in sioux falls only want to see the viking game at three. Thanks for making cultivating an interest in the product, NFL.

by BucNasty :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 2:40pm

The league only caters to foreign countries.

by MilkmanDanimal :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 3:00pm

If you had told me at the start of the season the Bucs would have been 9-5 after week 15 I'd have been elated. If you'd have told me it a week ago when they were 9-3 I'd . . . well, be about as depressed fan-wise as I am right now.

Could we lose without quite the embarrassment? Yeesh.

by BucNasty :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 3:08pm

There's something about the NFCE that really makes Cincinnati get up to play.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 3:26pm

Antonio Bryant really starting to play to his potential... finally.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 3:29pm

Seneca Wallace hurt ... Charlie Frye to come in ?!??!?!

by Red Hedgehog (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 3:41pm

Really regretting my decision to play Deion Branch today. Probably wouldn't have mattered. Andre Johnson is killing my fantasy hopes all by his lonesome.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 4:02pm

Chris Chambers just got JACKED UP!

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 4:05pm

LMAO @ that Sellers fumble. Terrible

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 4:28pm

21-21 tie in Indy with 12:00 to play.


by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 4:31pm

Mike Smith is lucky Antonio Bryant didn't light him up.
What a douche.

by el plaga :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 5:12pm

jeff fisher is going to get killed for going for it on fourth down there.

by Wide Right (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 5:21pm

I'm absolutely ecstatic that J.P. Losman was back at quarterback today. And by ecstatic, I mean I want to douse both of my eyeballs with Tabasco sauce and stab myself with a spoon.

Bledsoe's last season in Buffalo wasn't so bad, now that I think about it.

by B :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 5:29pm

Twice this year Bellicheck has challenged the defense had 12 men on the field, and he lost both challenges.

by andrew :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 6:26pm

Well the Vikings are just annihilating the Cards. 28-0, and it could have been worse if Taylor hadn't fumbled inside the arizona 10 yard line. Tarvaris Jackson has 3 touchdown passes, all different types (screen, bullet slant and 40 yard bomb with great coverage but better throw). Toss in two cardinal turnovers and an 82 yard punt return by Berrian and its a laugher.

I usually post a lot about how bad the Vikings look in the first half to try and jinx them back into winning, but honestly I can't find a bad thing to say about them right now.

Peterson has 100 yards on 14 carries, including a 32 yard run on 2nd and 20. I honestly hope they sit him down for the second half.

by panthersnbraves :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 6:55pm

Thanks for the free three points! Ten points and the ball.

by B :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 7:04pm

The Patriots are really going at Ashimoigh(sp?) in this game. So far, it's been working for them.

by Harris :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 7:15pm

The Cretin just praised Flacco for keeping both hands on the ball during a play when Flacco never once had both hands on the ball. Idiot.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by andrew :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 7:21pm

Predictably the Vikings then try to see how they can find a way to blow a 28 point halftime lead.

Missed tackle for easy touchdown, then blocked FG returned for a TD and its only a two score game...

by andrew :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 7:52pm

Sigh, game wrapped up and they are still running Peterson. They seem determined to test the curse of 370... Taylor is fresh and could easily handle this duty.

by Jin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:49pm

Damn he's 50 carries away from 370 with 3 games to go! Man I hope we can clinch the division next week...

by fakeninjitsu :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 3:14am

My bad, 2 games left, got too worried when I saw 320 carries.

by andrew :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 7:58pm

On the other hand, the Cardinals, who almost lost Boldin earlier this year in a game that was out of hand, are keeping their starters in. Warner is taking a pounding, for what?

by andrew :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:00pm

After a bad sack, down by 21 with 4 minutes to play, they keep Warner in for a 3rd and 28 play which loses yards.

by andrew :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:04pm

2:20 left, now, still down by 21, and they finally send Matt Leinart in. They still keep Fitzgerald and Boldin in though.

Thankfully they run the ball, their 6th attempt, avoiding setting a record for fewest rushing attempts in an NFL game.

by navin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:20pm

Walt Coleman must be the worst referee in the NFL at replay decisions.

by navin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:22pm

In fact, each time I see the replay, there's no way you can overturn the call on the field and say that Holmes had possession in the end zone.

Coleman even blew an earlier challenge.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:21pm

I just can't see how that was a TD against Baltimore. Sure, he had his feet down and was with the ball, but it never seemed like the ball crossed the plane. Am I missing something???

by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:24pm

Agree. I can't see any way thats a touchdown.

I especially can't see enough of a reason to overturn the ruling on the field

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:26pm

Right-- the ruling on the field was no TD. But no camera angle seemed to overturn that... and now it's an INT and the game's over after a really questionable call.

by navin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:29pm

Coleman really needs to be demoted. I've been anti-Triplette for awhile and Bill Leavy irritates me too, but Coleman seems to be particularly bad in the replay booth.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:42pm

Do you have HDTV?

The straight on left side goalline cam showed about 1/4 of the ball across the front plane. It was MUCH more clear than the BigBen SB rushing TD.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:50pm

Also of note, the correct decision is ALWAYS the opposite of what "Spike it on 4th down" Nantzy thinks it is.

by Expertise (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:53pm

I think you have to give a few inches from the outside border on that endzone considering the camera isn't lined up directly on the plane of the ball. The referee should have taken that into consideration and upheld the call.

by Expertise (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:56pm

correction: I meant the outside plane of the goal line.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:02pm

I disagree, it was lined up about as straight on as it could be.

Found this on another forum. Wish I had DVR'd the game, this is horrible PQ, but it's still very clear that a significant part of the ball is JUST over the line.


Oh well.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:05pm

I admit, I don't have HDTV. But by the time time he had possession, it really didn't seem like the ball was anywhere near the line. Perhaps, again, the HDTV clears that up, too.

That said, my impression was that while his feet sat just across the line in the End Zone, the rest of his body-- ball included-- was on the other side, and that it was the Steelers' ball on the 1 with the clock ticking...

by navin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:13pm

My point is that it's not conclusive enough to overturn that call. Just like the Super Bowl touchdown you mentioned was not clear enough to overturn.

by Harris :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:29pm

I thought he might have had the ball in the end zone when he first caught it, but it wasn't conclusive and really shouldn't have been overturned. On the other hand, let's see FireOmarTomlin bitch about 11-3 and a first round bye.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:47pm

Considering that they should be at least 12-2...

Considering that anyone with a brain can predict their offensive playcall trends...

Considering they lucked out on their "most brutal schedule ever" thanks to The Clowns reverting, the Jags sucking, the Chargers imploding, the Patriots losing Brady....

Considering they keep using Berger... (there HAS to be someone off the streets who could do better)

Considering they re-released Davenport when they clearly have nobody else they trust to run it on 3rd and 1 (see Big Ben rollout-fumble today)

They put WAYYY too much pressure on the defense and make games way too stressful. They could/should be a much better team than they are, even with their horrible OL. All it would take is Omar having enough guts to dump the 2 or 3 biggest dead weights in the organization.

by Harris :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:07pm

I admire your dedication to the theme. You're an utter crackpot, but I admire your dedication.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by B :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:25pm

That's gotta be the worst onsides kick attempt I've ever seen. The ball bounced ounce about 15 yards past the kickoff spot (so that's behind where the recovering team is standing) and then goes right out of bounds. No surprise the Raiders aren't good at that aspect of the game, either.

by panthersnbraves :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 8:41pm

Is there a stat for dropped INT's - the Panthers have to have the record locked up already with two games to go. 3-5 every week.

Maybe they need to make them start doing pushups or laps....

by morganja :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:05pm

There is no way that should have been overruled to a touchdown. The explanation seemed to imply that Walt Coleman doesn't know what the rule is. The ball has to break the plane. It doesn't matter if he had two feet down or not.

Terrible, terrible overturn. Definitely not enough evidence to overturn the decision on the field. The NFL really is pathetic this year in officiating. When are they going to start firing these idiots?

The Panthers were victimized by a mysterious illegal contact on a third down when replay showed no contact whatsoever. Then on the very next play they miss a WWE around the neck from behind hold by Clady on Peppers.

It is baffling how there is no accountability for consistently horrible officiating. I know the league is going to back up all the terrible calls again with some outright BS. But it certainly seems clear that Walt Coleman was under the impression that the ball doesn't have to break the plane.

by Love is like a bottle of gin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:30pm

Officiating is a lot harder than you are giving these guys credit for. Sure you can say fire the bums and replace them with someone better, but more likely than not there simply is not anyone better out there.

It makes about as much sense as those bench Tony Romo idiots.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:18pm

I have been wondering this for awhile. Is NBC's theme music borrowed from Star Wars Episode I?

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:27pm

First three plays-- run, pass to the TE, and pass to the WR. No passes were completed, but Owens should have caught his pass. Fuck.

by Harris :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:29pm

T.O., allow me to be the first to say, hee-hee.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:33pm

It is rich-- the perfect pass to TO that gives Dallas the first down and he can't make the easy catch. He would he shut up the boos if he'd caught it. As it is, he's just digging himself a bigger hole!

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:30pm

But in the first NYG series, Dallas' D looks good. On 3rd and long, they brought no extra help and still managed to collapse the pocket.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:36pm

First down-- both tries-- were runs. The first was a False Start. Second was a lame toss. Romo's pass on second sucked, but Williams caught it anyhow for a small gain. And on third and 13, Witten really does a shitty job of catching a not-so-great pass, and it's Dallas' second 3-and-out.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:44pm

So the NYG start now inside their own 10. The Giants run on 1st but there's a penalty, so they'll do it again but from their 5 or so. Then they pass-- nice play. No first, but still a good gain. On 2nd, the NYG also pass-- and a deflected pass is almost a reception. On 3rd, it's a ridiculous PI call on Dallas, even though Manning threw it a mile past the defender and Carl Lewis in his prime couldn't have caught that pass. Fucking bullshit.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:45pm

That's an armbar now? So I guess corners have to keep their arms at their sides when near the recievers.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:47pm

On their gift series, NYG runs well on 1st. On 2nd the pass is incomplete after Manning checks down. 3rd down and 10. They run (?) and it's 3rd and 5. It's a long FG, but perhaps NYG will try? Or no-- they go for it on 4th. A pass when Dallas brings the house, and Manning can't complete it, and Dallas takes over.

by Dave Bernreuther :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:55pm

Are we watching the same game? Cause I saw a preposterous punt, not a failed 4th down attempt.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:02pm

No, you're right-- my down count was off; I'm not listenign to the game, just watching it.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:48pm

And after a nice start after the gift PI call, the NYG cant complete a pass, and on the punt, Dallas get it at the 6.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 9:55pm

Dallas doesn't look good on their 3rd possession, but still completes it to the TE for a short gain. On 2nd down, a pass to Barber gets a first down. Nice protection. Owens was covered well, BTW. On 1st, run to Choice to gets tripped up, but does OK. 2nnd and 4, Romo checks down to Choice, but he drops it (of course), so it's 3rd and 4. Fucking false start (it was Adams-- no kidding!), so make it 3rd and 9. But they complete a pass on the blitz, and Crayton makes it. Nice!

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:00pm

Dallas runs into a wall on their new set of downs and lose 3. On 2nd down, Romo hits OWENS! for a NICE gain. On 1st at the NYG 42, Dallas dumps off a screen for a nice gain. NYG is bringing a lot of heat, but Romo is holing up. 1st again on the 29. Choice for a short gain.

So far, nice play-calling. It would look better if people would catch passes.

Anyhow, 2nd down, and Romo goes down. The NYG is bringing a LOT of heat. This time it worked. 3rd and long. Fuck. Another sack-- Dallas can't handle the NYG heat. Oh good- another Dallas penalty. Dallas is snapping from the NYG 45, and the punt is a touchback.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:01pm

Dallas runs into a wall on their new set of downs and lose 3. On 2nd down, Romo hits OWENS! for a NICE gain. On 1st at the NYG 42, Dallas dumps off a screen for a nice gain. NYG is bringing a lot of heat, but Romo is holing up. 1st again on the 29. Choice for a short gain.

So far, nice play-calling. It would look better if people would catch passes.

Anyhow, 2nd down, and Romo goes down. The NYG is bringing a LOT of heat. This time it worked. 3rd and long. Fuck. Another sack-- Dallas can't handle the NYG heat. Oh good- another Dallas penalty. Dallas is snapping from the NYG 45, and the punt is a touchback.

by B :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:06pm

Ok, Best Buy, I give up. Why would a blind guy need a new TV?

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:19pm

YES! I wondered the same thing. They taught him how to use the remote... so he could watch... different... shows?

by DGL :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:28pm

They said he had a three-year old kid. Oh, but I guess blind people automatically have blind kids, right?

Personally, I thought the thing about "we had to teach him to use four remotes" was going to be about how they gave him this great universal remote to control all his stuff and how wonderful that was...

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:36pm

Uh, not exactly. The introduction of the 3 year old wasn't clear. But I guess he's a single dad? Very odd, since the impression was that he wasn't a young guy. But whatever. If you think the Best Buy commercial was spot on, then great. I still have to buy a new hard drive, so I'll go there myself to get it.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:07pm

If Romo is out again, game over. Oh, and the Cowboys season is officially over.

by Love is like a bottle of gin (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:11pm

I must say after hearing many of the radio guys around the country I think NE have the worst, just thought that was interesting...

by Dave Bernreuther :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:17pm

Just like their fans! (ha ha)

I was flipping between Pittsburgh and Baltimore broadcasts during the replay earlier and was struck by how calm, patient, and levelheaded the Ravens team was. Meanwhile, the Steeler radio team seemed to have the combined IQ of a grape.

Apparently there's a passage in the 2006 rule book stating that Walt Coleman's explanation after that was correct - if a player has both feet in the end zone and possession, it's a TD. Seems more like that's applicable to catches in the sides and back though and may not have been intended to apply there, given that that would be inconsistent with everything else in the book. Anyone have a more recent copy of the rule book though? NFL.com's digest is useless.

by DGL :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:40pm

The 2006 rule book says, "It is a touchdown...while inbounds any player catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) on or behind the opponents’ goal line." It's not clear whether the "on or behind the opponents' goal line" refers to the player or the ball.

If the rule is that the ball has to be on or behind the goal line, then I (even as a Steelers' fan) thought it wasn't "incontrovertable visual evidence" and the call shouldn't have been overturned.

Of course, I thought the officiating generally sucked anyway.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:49pm

According to google, here is NFL 2006 rulebook


see pages 79 (definition of offensive touchdowns)
and page 5 (definition of loose live ball)

So yes, apparently on a pass play of this sort, the ball doesn't have to break the plane, just as it can be caught behind* the backline/sideline in the air if the players feet are in.

by cd6 :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:13pm

The steelers beat the hated ravens to win the division and the first round bye.
The redskins lose to the bungles, allowing me to lord it over my ex-roommate redskins fan.
The patriots feel to need to hang 49 on the raiders, way to go belicheat, have fun watching the playoffs from your couch.
The titans lose, allowing the steelers a shot at home field advantage.
And TO drops an easy pass.

This is a great sunday.

by Harris :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:15pm

Yeah, you think on 2nd-and-four when Romo is nearly at the first down marker when he throws that pass he was MAYBE over the LOS?

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:16pm

Wow. NYG runs for little, and then gets sacked, and then a short screen does poorly, and it's 4th down. But word is that Romo is hurt. So what happens now?

Romo starts and they try to pass, but it's a sack. Another pass on 2nd, but it's a screen to Choice (?) and it does well. First down. Pass to Owens for short. And next, YES!!! Nice improv by Romo scrambling outside. Pass to Crayton! TD. Hmmm. But was he over the line? Looks like it wasn't to me... and the Ref agrees!

by Dave Bernreuther :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:18pm

Not that I don't enjoy having something to read in here, but why are you taking the time to type out a full play by play?

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:22pm

'Cause I'm bored sitting here in my apartment with no one to talk to drinking bourbon and Sprite? I mean, watching football by yourself is fun, and all. But it's more fun to interact. But if that's too strange, then I'll just stop.

No big deal.

by Harris :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:32pm

Bourbon and Sprit? Blurgh. I mean, I can understand not wanting to have the smell of Sprite on your breath, but geez.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:43pm

Ha! Well, I used to have 7-and-7 in college. But then I discovered that one can get the same effect with stuff that costs way less than Seagrams 7. And as a postdoc, I'm going for value!

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:17pm

Dude. I said this last year. The eTrade talking baby freaks me out.

by cd6 :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:26pm

How dare you?!
I love those commercials.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:29pm

Really? The talking baby? With the gruff adult male voice? It seems so disconcerting!

by Dave Bernreuther :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:37pm

I agree.

Didn't mean to discourage you from interacting. Your reason is perfectly good.

Bourbon and Sprite sounds delicious.

by morganja :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:47pm

The NFL is going to claim it is the right call. And then, when its called the complete opposite in a different game, will claim that's the correct rule. They cover for these incompetents for too long. It's time to clean house. Make ti like English soccer. The bottom two crews, and bottom 2 at each position get kicked out at the end of each year.

We're Americans. We're suppose to believe in the benefits of competition.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 10:53pm

BTW, I really hope that the special Ryan Seacrest show fails utterly.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:06pm

Same here.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:10pm

Yay! Newman!

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:12pm

Classic example of the refs getting pushed around by the home crown in the YG-DAL game. They had defensive PI called and after a "conference" where they were surrounded by Cowboys lobbying an the crowd gasping, they reverse the call. have never seen a call reversal like that.

by SAmely (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:16pm

Maybe you haven't watched enough football, then.

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:20pm

I'm sure there has been in a game I've watched, but I can't think of an example off the top of my head where non-reviewable penalty was reversed after the refs were surrounded by the other team crying about the call.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:13pm

Romo seems off by quite a bit. If his back is hurting him that, much, then things don't bode well for the rest of the game.

by Rocco :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:14pm

Unstoppable. Eli Manning is.

So does every announcer have to make excuses for all of Romo's bad throws?

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:16pm

Madden has been pretty embarassing with the Romo shlurpage this game.

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:15pm

Also: The Giants are definitely missing Burress. And Jacobs too, really. They need to hit a couple deep balls.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:22pm

The Dallas D is certainly doing well on the line, both against the run, and applying pressure.

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:26pm

Yeah, the Giants' tackles are having a rough night. And McKenzie's apparently out for the game now too...I know the G-Men really aren't a big screen team but it seems like maybe they should try a couple given the pressure coming off the edges.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:33pm

Well-- nice call! They did go for a screen...

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:36pm

And right after I type ta, Bradshaw goes for a good gain on a slip screen. Gilbride's not smart enough to cll it again though, and Eli is sacked on consecutive plays to kill the drive.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:35pm

But good god. That's the 7th sack for Dallas!

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:40pm

Eli's been sacked 7 times, but Romo actually seems to be taking more a pounding. Slow to get up again on the last play of the 3rd...

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:47pm

That's a good observation. Eli isn't taking a beating from this, but Romo does seem to be hurting.

by Arson55 :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:43pm

...I think Choice is on his way to taking over Canty's place as my second favorite Cowboy (behind Newman).

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:45pm

Don't throw a pick Romo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whew. The run is stuffed. But it's not a turnover...

Second down. Play action pass... to the full back! TD, Dallas!

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:52pm

This is an important drive fore the NYG. A solid drive for a TD in not a lot of time is good. But something less will spell trouble. As it is, we have a good run on 1st down, and a bad pass on 2nd. So on 3rd and short... Manning throws a good pass and it's a 1st down.

by Lance :: Sun, 12/14/2008 - 11:55pm

Now 2nd down, and a screen didn't do well. 3rd and still short, but in NYG territory. Let's see... Dallas is bringing it... and... a penalty. False start. 3rd and 5 yards longer for the NYG. And Manning's pass under pressure is incomplete. Nice stop by Dallas!

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:02am

Oh man. Jesus. The NYG do the Safety Dance on Romo, get 2 points and the ball. What happened to the Cowboys' OL there?

by Love is like a bottle of gin (not verified) :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 1:52am

It was a screen, bad play call.

by panthersnbraves :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 1:01pm

although Romo did manage to keep it from being a TD.

by panthersnbraves :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:58pm

Center thought the play was on 1, and everyone else was on 2...

by panthersnbraves :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:59pm

Center thought the play was on 1, and everyone else was on 2...

by FullMoonOverTulsa (not verified) :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:03am

Has Cory Proctor moved yet, or is he still waiting on the snap count.

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:08am

Yikes. The NYG look good here, going no-huddle and in DAL territory. 2nd and 10... and Manning calls plays. Launches a NICE pass, but #87 can't make the one-handed job. 3rd and 10.... Manning making more calls. Massive pressure and Manning throws it to nowhere. Now the NYG get a FG attempt from 47 and it's good, 14-8. Dallas needs to have a long drive here...

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:15am

Well, it's 3:30 left, and Dallas is on the 50 with 2nd and 10. A good Dallas team drains the clock and wins here. A bad one will let it slip away like last week...

by Arson55 :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:19am

Choice rocks!

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:20am

WOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!!!!!!!! And there it is. Little junior high school girls beat the Giants!

by SAmely (not verified) :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:25am

Guess the Cowboys aren't as bad as everyone thought they were, and the Giants aren't as good.

by markschepp23 (not verified) :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:49am

Well, I don't think anyone ever said the Cowboys were BAD...in fact, most people have been saying they had the best shot of knocking the Giants off in the NFC. People have been on them because they've been underachieving. Unless a few other teams gag, they still pretty much have to win out to make the playoffs.

Anyway, from a Giants fan perspective, the defense played very well, no complaints there, but they really have to figure out their post-Plaxico offensive gameplan. They're fortunate enough given the standings and time of year to have a few more weeks to do that - although next week's game against the Panthers is huge.

Personally I would call some more screens with Bradshaw and Ward...as mentioned upthread, they ran one all day, it went for about 9 yards, and they never went back to it. Jacobs returning will certainly hlelp the power running game a bit, but they need to do more to spread and stretch the defense too. I don't know what he's shown in practice, but maybe its time to put Mannigham out there and see if he can strecth the D with his speed. Some no huddle would probably help, as well...I know they like to play ball control, but Eli is really good in the NH. I might go to it in any situation where they're down in the second half.

by FireOmarTomlin :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:32am

Can't believe after all the moanin and groanin about whether the ball broke the plane nobody wants to discuss the VERY ambiguous grey area wording and interpretation possibilities with the way the 2006 rule book is written ?

DVOA update this week should be very interesting as well. How much will NYG and TENN fall? How much will DAL and PITT rise?

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:46am

Well, I'm not sure about the specifics, but if the proper interpretation of the 2006 book was correct for PIT v BAL, then yes, I think something very wrong has happened.

As for DAL and its DVOA, expect it to fall, and then expect Bill Barnwell to link to several "Dallas Sucks and Tony Romo is a Girl" posts here at FO. This shouldn't detract from the high ground that FO always takes-- is IS FO, and, as we all know, FO praises metrics (and New England) over all.

by Love is like a bottle of gin (not verified) :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 1:56am

While the NE homerism gets a bit tiring at times, I have never seen any evidence of any bias in their actual numbers, just in the editorial content. As for this site disliking DAL, I have no idea what you are talking about, I hope you are not serious? No one here has ever said DAL sucks? Have they said they are not clear NFC favorites eac h and every year as DAL homers seem to think, sure. But that is only reasonable. Why you would expect DAL DVOA to fall I have no idea.

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 8:44am

True-- the FO numbers are not driven by any agenda, and I was being facetious. But yes, Barnwell and Schatz love to take pot shots at the Cowboys, and you can see it in how they title posts and in other comments.

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:50am


by FireOmarTomlin :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:39am

WOW TO just called Ed Werder out hard as a liar on the Post-Game interview with Andrea.

by The Powers That Be :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:47am

Well, that pretty much guarantees the Eagles will be the #1 team in DVOA this week (win or lose tomorrow night, I'm thinking).

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:54am

Even though the Eagles are 0-0-1 vs. Ohio this year, I am pretty sure that they'll drub the Browns without much effort...

by Key19 :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 3:08am

May I never again hear that Tony cannot perform under pressure or win a big game. This was the Cowboys' season, and he played flawlessly. The safety looks bad on paper (and I'm sure some brilliant person on ESPN will somehow criticize him for it), but overall it was all on Flo and Proctor. No INTs, no fumbles (aside from the safety, but he cleaned up the mess by shoving it out of bounds), no problems. Meanwhile, "stone cold" Eli Manning had two picks and no TDs. The second pick was a garbage pick essentially, but still. Everyone who has crowned him Mr. Icy Veins should just chill. Dallas is officially back in it, and with a win next week, they're playoff bound in my book. If ATL can lose in Minnesota and TB can lose to San Diego, Dallas will be sitting pretty.

by Mark S. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 12:34pm

You really think Romo played flawlessly? I'm not even sure he played WELL - he was overthrowing open receivers and misfiring pretty badly all game - and he was holding on to the ball a little too long. Oh and he didn't have zero fumbles, he fumbled TWICE (both recovered, but that doesn't erase the issue he has with holding onto the ball). I'm not trying to bash, and I'm not gonna say it was his fault - his line played like crap and he was basically running for his life and getting smacked around all game by the Giants' pass rush, so as far as I'm concerned bye deserves credit for hanging in there, but let's not go crazy patting him on the back for a mediocre at best performance.

And it's not really fair to compare Eli with Romo this game - their current receiving corps are in no way even remotely comparable. The first INT was a matter of Newman out-muscling Hixon for the ball and the second was a hail mary at the end of the game. And like Romo, he was under siege all game (esp. in the second half with 2 starting O-linemen out).

by The Original Omar :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 4:22am

So does this no longer count as a big December game since Romo won?

by panthersnbraves :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 1:09pm

There will be a Plexico asterisk there. On the other hand - "winning heals everything."

by Harris :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 9:52pm

Damn. That there was a big time TD throw from McNabb.

"A little celery is always nice after a good pee."

by Lance :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 10:02pm

The Browns moved the ball better than I expected on their first drive

by tally :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 10:55pm

Well, there's one thing Westbrook can't do: tackle.

Nice job running down the DB, though, and slowing him enough for a teammate to tackle him.

by Crus :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 10:57pm

Ahh the Eagles 2 Minute Drill.. what wonders will it produce next time? Even when they do a decent job managing the time involved it still ends up as a car wreck.

by CathyW :: Mon, 12/15/2008 - 11:45pm

Does LJ Smith ever NOT fall down after catching a pass?

by Rocco :: Tue, 12/16/2008 - 12:09am

I'm down 3 in my fantasy league. Is there any chance that Kolb's Pick-6 could scare Reid into putting McNabb back into the game? Pretty please?

by bigswa :: Tue, 12/16/2008 - 5:05pm

Can anybody show me how to get printable versions of the Stats in the Premium Contanet Section?

Lance Williams, Host
5 Ain't Enough: A Steelers Podcast for a Steelers Nation

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