Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

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A heart condition discovered at the combine has put the Michigan lineman's career in limbo, but Hurst had the best film of any defensive tackle in this year's draft class.

03 Oct 2007

Every Play Counts: Ronnie Brown

by Michael David Smith

Dolphins running back Ronnie Brown got off to a slow start Sunday against the Oakland Raiders. In the first quarter he touched the ball five times and gained a total of just nine yards. And then in the next three quarters he proceeded to have the best game I've seen from any running back in the NFL this year.

Yes, the Dolphins lost 35-17 to drop to 0-4. But while nothing else the Dolphins did was working, Brown was dominating. He finished the day with 207 combined rushing and receiving yards, nearly 75 percent of the Dolphins' 278 total net yards. Below I review each of Brown's 21 touches Sunday to examine how it is that he's playing so well in an offense where nothing else is working.

First possession

First-and-10: With the Dolphins in an I formation, the Raiders put eight in the box. With no hole in the line of scrimmage and nowhere for Brown to go, he just barreled into the line for a gain of a yard. Left tackle Vernon Carey did a particularly bad job on his block. This was the first of many times that Brown was given little or no help from his offensive line.

Second possession

First-and-10: Again, the Dolphins were in an I formation, and again there was just nowhere for Brown to run at all. The Raiders made it clear from the beginning that their game plan was to dare Dolphins quarterback Trent Green to beat them. Brown picked up two yards, which is all any running back could have done, given the circumstances.

Second-and-8: The Dolphins lined up in an I formation with two tight ends, meaning all of the Raiders' linebackers should have been accounted for, but somehow no one bothered to block linebacker Kirk Morrison, who tackled Brown for a loss of three yards on a pitchout. There may be a few running backs in the NFL elusive enough to have evaded Morrison on the play, but you can't blame Brown for this loss. Again, he got no help.

Third possession

First-and-10: Green dumped a screen pass to Brown, and again no one blocked Morrison, who brought Brown down for a loss of a yard. At this point in the game it looked like Brown was in for a very long day, but things got better.

Third-and-3: With Green in the shotgun and the Dolphins showing pass, the inside handoff went to Brown, who took it for 10 yards. There was finally a little room for Brown to run, as the Raiders weren't stacking eight in the box, and Brown made the most of it, reading his blockers well and carrying four Raiders the last couple yards of a very impressive run. What really makes Brown an elite running back -- and he is, even though he's never mentioned as one -- is that power he showed at the end of the run, fighting for the last few yards with players on his back.

Third-and-18: With Green in the shotgun, Brown initially looked like he would stay in and block. He did a nice job selling that, and then he swung out to catch a short pass. He then high-stepped over Morrison's attempted ankle-tackle to pick up extra yardage, finally going down after a gain of 15. Brown didn't pick up the first down, but he got the Dolphins enough yardage that they were able to go for it (and convert) on fourth-and-3 on the next play -- a play where the play-action fake to Brown made the Raiders' linebackers bite and free up space for tight end Justin Peelle to turn a short pass into a long gain.

First-and-goal: With the Raiders stacking the line of scrimmage again, Brown got a handoff, sliced through a tiny hole, and took it nine yards for a touchdown, running over Raiders defensive back B.J. Ward as he crossed the goal line. That run showed all of Brown's strengths: The vision to find the hole, the slashing style to get through it, and the power to flatten a defensive back.

Fourth possession

First-and-15: With the Dolphins deep in their own territory and the Raiders putting eight in the box yet again, Brown broke his longest run of the game, bursting for 60 yards. On this play, Brown actually got some good blocking, although he had to be patient enough to wait for the hole to open, which isn't easy when you know your team is in long yardage and you're lining up in your own end zone. Brown doesn't have spectacular breakaway speed, and Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha eventually pushed him out of bounds, but it was a tremendous run and one where he easily could have been bottled up for little or no gain.

Fourth-and-2: In a short-yardage situation, everyone in the stadium expected Brown to get it, and everyone was right. The Raiders' front collapsed the right side of the Dolphins' line at the snap, but Brown stutter-stepped to his left, accelerated through the line of scrimmage, and broke through four arm-tackles before finally being reeled in by Warren Sapp after a gain of 11 yards.

Fifth possession

The Dolphins only ran one play on this possession, a meaningless five-yard run by Jesse Chatman to end the first half.

Sixth possession

First-and-10: On the first play of the second half, Brown was the halfback in the I formation again and fullback Reagan Mauia stumbled at the snap, meaning Brown had one fewer blocker than the play called for. It didn't matter. Showing a great burst through the line, Brown broke into the open field before Raiders safety Stuart Schweigert tackled him after a gain of 15.

Second-and-8: Brown ran to the middle of the field and was well covered by both Morrison and Thomas Howard. He was so well-covered that I'm surprised Green threw to him, but Brown still caught the pass for a gain of five. Raiders defensive coordinator Rob Ryan must have a lot of respect for Brown's role in the Dolphins' passing game, because Brown almost always had at least one and sometimes two linebackers draped on him when he ran a route. He still managed to catch six of the eight passes thrown to him.

Seventh possession

First-and-10: Brown got the handoff and sprinted around the left end of the line. No one blocked Howard (it seemed like at least one of the Raiders' linebackers was unblocked on every play), and he pushed Brown out of bounds after a gain of five. Brown showed good speed and an ability to turn the corner, but a block on Howard might have allowed Brown to pick up a huge gain.

Third-and-5: Brown ran a deep pass route, and when the protection broke down for Green, Brown did a great job of just running around in the secondary to get open. Green avoided the pass rush and launched a deep ball to Brown, who caught the pass for 17 yards. Brown has good hands and a knack for getting open downfield, and if he weren't so valuable as a running back, he could play wide receiver.

First-and-10: I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for him every time he fails to break a big play, but it really was incredible how often Brown had just absolutely no room to run at all. The Raiders had eight in the box, and when wide receiver Marty Booker motioned in from the sideline, Asomugha essentially became the ninth in the box. Then Brown got the handoff and the Raiders' defensive line pushed the Dolphins' offensive line directly back and into the backfield. Brown had to dance around a little bit just to manage a gain of two. It was a very impressive gain of two, considering what he was up against.

Eighth possession

The Dolphins ran four plays on this drive, and Brown got no touches, although he was the target of an incomplete pass on first-and-10.

Ninth possession

First-and-10: Again in the I formation, Brown took what he could get with a fairly modest hole and picked up three yards. I couldn't help but think as I watched these runs that Brown would be better off if Dolphins coach Cam Cameron would spread the field more often. The Raiders played the run on nearly every play, and perhaps if Cameron would use more sets in which a third receiver (like, say, Ted Ginn, who was a Top 10 pick but is invisible in the Dolphins' offense) replaced the fullback, that would force opposing defenses to cease loading up to stop Brown.

Second-and-7: After faking a handoff to Brown, Green swung a pass out to him, and this is where Brown shows such incredible field vision: After getting the ball in the open field, most running backs would have turned it up toward the sideline. Brown, however, saw that Howard was to his outside, so he cut back to the inside and picked up 14 yards.

(It must be said that Raiders rookie defensive end Jay Richardson did an outstanding job on this play of tracking Brown down and tackling him before he got an even bigger gain. The Raiders have some great athletes on their defense, and Richardson, a 280-pounder who can move, might be the best of them.)

First-and-10: The Dolphins were in the I formation again, and this time Brown actually got a good block from Mauia. Brown exploded through the hole for a gain of six and would have had more had it not been for an excellent move by Raiders defensive tackle Gerard Warren, who stuck his arm out just in time to trip Brown up.

Second-and-4: In the I formation, Brown took the handoff, took three steps to his left, made a quick cut to the inside, slashed through the line and got the first down. The next play was a touchdown on a play-action pass, and it was set up because the entire Raiders defense followed the play-fake to Brown. It was incredible the extent to which the Raiders were keying on Brown, and it says something about how far Green has fallen as a quarterback that this touchdown pass was one of the few times all day that he was able to take advantage.

Tenth possession

First-and-10: Brown got the handoff, broke it to the outside, and had an amazing broken tackle on the unblocked (yes, again) Morrison. Morrison squared Brown up perfectly and wrapped his arms around him, and then Brown just pushed him down and stepped over him to turn what should have been a two-yard gain into a seven-yard gain.

Second-and-3: With nowhere to run, Brown lost a yard. Again, just no push at all from the Dolphins' offensive line.

Eleventh possession

First-and-10: It was a meaningless play -- the last play of the game -- and Brown picked up 23 receiving yards. If you want to disregard meaningless plays, feel free to ignore this one.


So what can we learn from this Brown play-by-play? Basically, that he's an outstanding talent -- definitely worth the No. 2 overall pick that the Dolphins spent on him in 2005 -- but that neither he nor any running back can do it all by himself. People have often asked why Football Outsiders has been so positive about Brown even though he barely comes out as replacement level in our numbers. Games like this show why numbers can't be judged in a vacuum. Brown is 25 years old, meaning he has four or five more years to get to play behind a good offensive line and with a passing game that takes some pressure off him. Let's hope he gets that opportunity. Otherwise, this will be a tremendous waste of talent.

Each week, Michael David Smith looks at one specific player or one aspect of a team on every single play of the previous game. Standard caveat applies: Yes, one game is not necessarily an indicator of performance over the entire season.

Posted by: Michael David Smith on 03 Oct 2007

38 comments, Last at 03 Oct 2007, 4:58pm by Lou


by Mike W (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 10:06am

When Cameron started the talk of platooning with Chatman, I heard people in the media talk about how Brown wasn't that good and was a bust. Amazing how people look at a guy slowly get through a huge hole and then get arm tackled by a DB, and say, "Good run!" Then they see a guy go 10 for 25 with no holes and say he sucks. Very sophisticated.

I had Brown in two FF leagues last year, and even though he killed me, I talked him up this year, though I was never in position to get him. Of course, he killed me again last week in all three of my leagues. Not that I'm bitter.

by Dork Matter (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 10:06am

Brown had this happen to him all last year. In the 2006 season opener against Pittsburgh, every run seemed to involve Brown getting hit by a defender at or behind the line, then pushing forward for a gain of two. Every rush yard seemed to be from Brown's efforts alone. He ended that day with two TDs, but something like 60 rush yards total.

That, coupled with the continual line changes that FO documented midseason of last year and the Full Mularkey playcalling, meant that Brown fans spent last season gnashing our teeth.

Here's hoping that Cameron picks an offensive line and lets it gel, and that Beck gets in later in the season to get some experience. Maybe then the team has a shot for next year.

by Sergio (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 10:06am

MDS, I love your articles, but you don't really go into detail as to who in the OL is missing which block and why. I know it's a lot harder to do than watching a single matchup, but it kinda takes the in-depth feeling these articles usually give.

by B (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 10:26am

I've always been impressed by Brown's ability to turn a three yard loss into a two yard gain.
I wonder if all the I-formations are leftover from when Cameron was in San Deigo and had one of the best fullbacks in the league.

by James, London (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 11:18am

Nice analysis. I watched this game, and Brown was just as good as MDS reports. The Trent Green TD was funny. If there'd have been a camera shot of the Raiders bench they'd have been running towards Ronnie Brown as well.

As for the line, I'm no expect but my impression was that they did a reasonable job in pass protection. Trent Green had time to throw. Sadly he spent it impersonating Rex Grossman. I think it's time for Cleo Lemon.

by James, London (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 11:21am

For "expect" please read expert.

Must...learn.. to... type...better....

by Joe Rowles (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 11:36am

third possession 3rd and 18

You say Raiders but it is the Dolphins... just figured I'd let you know may have been mentioned

by Sergio (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:31pm

re: 5

Why Cleo Lemon? Seriously, do you expect us to compete with *this* defense?

I say stick with Green, or throw the rookie in.

by johonny (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:37pm

Brown really has improved as a reciever from his rookie year. I have to agree with MDS on spreading the offense out more. I thought Ginn was going to be a motion 3rd WR in a spread offense, and instead he's been invisible. I think the Dolphins want to do more on offense but are limited by the inexperienced linemen and the fact they never have the ball.

by Podge (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:38pm


After all, the rookie is nearly as old as Green.... :p

So who's the bust from that running back class? Seems Benson is the odd man out, but he's just a bit below average IMO (well, ignoring this season), but could be a good starter. Cadillac is good, but to easily nicked up and too easily affected by it (ignoring this season again, because its hard to call a pretty much horror-injury "nicked up". I'm not gonna mark him down for not putting up big numbers for the rest of this season!). Funny thing is, Brown might be the best, but until this season, and still to some extent, considered the biggest bust by most talking heads.

Out of interest, who's the Dolphins FB, and is he any good? They released Corey Schlesinger didn't they? Isn't he pretty much a poor man's Lorenzo Neal, in that he'll basically be ignored by any defender he's not barreling straight towards?

by James, London (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 12:58pm

#8 Sergio,

No I don't expect Miami to compete, *especially* with this D. However, it appears that Trent Green is now ineffective (I've seen two games this year. I know you chart Miami, so if I'm wrong, please let me know), and it's time for a change.

I've no objection to starting John Beck if he's ready to go. From what I've heard that isn't the case, so go with Lemon. He certainly won't be any worse than Green is, and it doesn't take any risks with the annointed heir to the throne.

Now being on the wrong side of the Atlantic, I could be very wrong about John Beck's development. If that's the case, then I'd be happy to see him play. I s'pose, if nothing else, by playing Beck you get a handle on whether to draft a QB with the Top-5 pick in 2008.

by Sergio (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:25pm

re: 10

Miami's FB is Reagan Mauia, a 4th rounder (IIRC) rookie.

re: 11

I haven't really had the time to sink my teeth into the film. I'll have more time tomorrow afternoon, so I'll try to give it a go. However, from where I'm sitting I agree, Green is extremely ineffective, and it could very well be time for a change - if nothing else, it would show the vets the team hasn't given up on the season. However I don't see the plus in bringing Lemon in. It might be the lesser of the two evils (bringing the rookie too early or switching between average QBs). Lemon's supposedly more mobile (I really haven't seen it), so it might help, but I don't know exactly how sitting the best pocket passer in the team will help the rookie in learning his fundamentals, by positive or negative example. If he sees Lemon out there scrambling on every play and rushing through his reads, it might have a very negative impact on him. On the other hand, watching Green teaches him directly how to do (or not do) certain basic elements of what should be his game (classic drop-back passer). But he might not get that chance with Lemon because Lemon might not do such things (right or wrong).

Sorry for the rambling, unassorted thoughts. Too much work, too little coffee.

by Fisher (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:34pm

Raiders back-up running back Justin Fargas got off to a slow start Sunday against the Miami Dolphins. In the first quarter, he touched the ball zero times and gained a total of zero yards. In the second quarter, he touched the ball four times for seven yards. And then in the next TWO quarters he proceeded to have the best game I've seen from any running back in the NFL this year.

Yes, the Raiders beat the Dolphins 35-17 to rise to 2-2. But while little else the Raiders did was working (Culpepper 5-12 for 75 yds), Fargas was dominating. He finished the day with 179 yards, nearly 62 percent of the Raiders 290 total net yards from his first touch. Below I review each of Fargas' 22 touches Sunday to examine how it is that he's playing so well in an offense where nothing else is working...

I KID! I KID! I'M KIDDING! (not really) YES! YES, I AM KIDDING! As a Raider fan, I've had very little to smile about! Throw me a bone!

Solid article in relation to the Fish, their struggles, and how underrated Ronnie Brown has been relating to the futility of running with an inept offense. He's also had a number of fantastic 1-3 yard runs that are only impressive viewed live, as statistically they go unnoticed (except at FO!)

by Sergio (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:34pm

On another note, I'd like to say that the OL is actually doing a far better job than I expected, and while the run blocking is far inferior to the pass blocking (ironically, since the numbers would suggest otherwise), I think that's the best possible scenario. It's easier to teach the guys how to run block properly, considering even an average run-blocking line will be sufficient for Brown, than tweaking the pass-blocking techniques, far more sophisticated IMO.

I say either stick with Green and let the rookie learn by example some more, or put him in and get his trial by fire. As bad as this team is, the pass protection is decent, the receivers are a bit better than last year (at least Hagan isn't dropping balls like rabid ferrets anymore, that's Martin's job now), and he will get plenty of chances to throw, throw, and throw some more in the many 'come-from-behind' games the Dolphins will be in this year. In fact, I wish for this to happen right after the London game; given the bye to acquaint himself better with the #1 team, I expect immediate results to be (slightly) better, which will appear the wolves at Davie.

by TED F!@#ING GINN!? (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:36pm

Things I'd like to see happen this season:

Beck gets put in later in the season so that the team can judge whether he can hold the job for the future, like James said in #11. I'll be happy if he is just decent. That would be better than any QB the Dolphins have had since Marino retired.

With the Dolphins very high draft pick, they get Jake Long, who the last time I heard anything about it was the consensus best O-Lineman available in next year's draft.

The Dolphins sign the disgruntled and hopefully free agent guard Alan Faneca for the couple of years he has left in him.

If that happens, I'm suddenly a lot more excited about the Dolphins chances for a good season in '08. Ronnie Brown can be devastating if only he can get a consistent o-line. If anyone missed the highlight of Ronnie Brown's TD, I don't think MDS put enough emphasis on it. It was just disgusting the way he ran over the DB.

"like, say, Ted Ginn, who was a Top 10 pick but is invisible in the Dolphins’ offense"

*sigh* Fire Mueller?

by James, London (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:46pm

"With the Dolphins very high draft pick, they get Jake Long, who the last time I heard anything about it was the consensus best O-Lineman available in next year’s draft."

I've just come out in a cold sweat. The last time I read anything like that, it was about Robert Gallery. (Although I wouldn't put drafting a Guard with a Top-5 pick past the 'Fins).


"The Dolphins sign the disgruntled and hopefully free agent guard Alan Faneca for the couple of years he has left in him."

Can you say "Joey Porter"?

Spot the Fins Fan who permanently expects the worst.

As for Beck, if they're gonna play him, part of me wants to see him live in London. The sane part of me doesn't want him killed by the Giants pass rush.

by Lab3003 (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:47pm

Being from Miami, I've seen every single game Ronnie Brown's played in. Based on the data, it appears Brown could a real Marshall Faulk-type of player (minus the breakaway speed). In the Dolphin's Offense, he is too often misused and this article is very reflective of the ineptitude of the entire Dolphins organization. This Hudson Houck character hasn't done anything impressive with his majestic blocking scheme to turn its chicken poop OL talent into a chicken salad. That combined with the constant reshuffling of personnel, (this is again another season with new starters at every offensive line position) really detracts with what Ronnie Brown could and should do.

Hope for the future? Well Cameron loved to use the I-form almost to the point it was a base offense in San Diego. I hope he can learn from what appears to an ineffective plan to change course and start taking advantage of the personnel he has! That I doubt that will happen considering the guy almost made Brown split carries with Chapman (a guy who ate himself out of the league two seasons ago).

by TED F!@#ING GINN!? (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:52pm

Re 16:

I thought Jake Long was a Left Tackle?

by NewsToTom (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:57pm

Watching the Titans play the Jags (much success running) and then the Colts (much less success running), the suggestion to simply line up in a 3 or 4-WR package by itself won't necessarily do much to open up running lanes. Defenses will compensate and play run unless and until you throw the ball and burn them-what the Colts did was play the defenders on the outside receivers a little bit in and bring a safety (viz., Bob Sanders) down in support as well. The Titans tried quick throws to the outside to force the Colts to spread out more, but weren't hugely successful with it-this might be something the Dolphins would have better success with, thanks to Ted Ginn's ability in space. Alternatively, send Ginn deep early in the game and try to hit one, or at least maybe put some fear into the defense. Then again, if the QB is as bad as I get the feeling Green was, well, you're pretty much screwed.

by BadgerT1000 (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:58pm

What I continue to find fascinating is that coach after coach after coach will state that the game is "won in the trenches". And yet very few dedicate the attention one would expect to the offensive line given the stated impact this unit has on the game.

As a quick example, the improvement of the Packer offensive line is in direct correlation to Favre not playing like a spaz. Meanwhile, in Chicago the offensive line seems to have gotten old overnight and the offense for the Bears has suffered.

I know I mention him frequently but former Packer GM Ron Wolf always talked about looking for offensive linemen be it through the draft or waiver wire. Wolf's contention, like it was with QBs, was that nobody was really certain what would make a good linemen. So you collected them, sifted through the mix and kept the ones who turned out ok. But that you had to always be looking or one day you would look around and have none.

by MJK (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 1:59pm

I think part of the reason why Brown is so undervalued is due to fantasy football, which is one reason why I dislike FF (yes, I'm one of the two football fans left on earth that doesn't play fantasy). Brown puts up lousy fantasy numbers, because he's surrounded by no talent and bad coaching, and hence everyone who isn't actually a Dolphins fan assumes he isn't very good.

by NewsToTom (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 2:00pm

Re #18
Long is indeed an LT, at least as Michigan, and I haven't heard any intimations he won't be able to play the same position in the pros. Sam Baker from USC is the other reputed top LT in the draft, though my anti-USC bias compels me to point out USC's previous "potential top 10 pick" LT was on display Sunday night as a turnstile.

by Dom (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 2:04pm

Regarding Adjusted Line Yards, does Miami's O-Line get credit for all those times Brown converted a stuff into a two or three yard gain? Because if so that seems... wrong.

by johonny (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 2:34pm

I also think the Dolphins Oline is getting better. They basically rotated the whole line around. Lines that do this often play poorly regardless of talent. I've said this several times, but I believe the current Dolphin plan is to solidify the Oline (and FB too) experience playing as a unit and then will move to the skilled positions (WR, QB and RB). I imagine after the Giants game Ginn, Booker and Beck/Lemon will start seeing playing time. If not Cam is as bad as Saban. What's amazing is not a single defensive player drafted by Saban appears to be even league average in talent. Saban was thought to be a personel guy, a guy that knew the college talent... blah, blah, blah. Jason Allen anyone? Matt Roth? Travis Daniels? Channing Crowder? These guys are suppose to be the core of the Dolphins defense. Allen still can't beat out cast offs for a starting spot.

by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 2:40pm

"Lines that do this often play poorly regardless of talent."

Lines don't get shuffled if they've got talent. When people start shuffling lines, its because theres a lack of talent.

by David (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:03pm

21 - I actually gained a lot of respect for Brown by having him on my fantasy team last year. As you might expect, I didn't have a very good team, if Brown's numbers last year were good enough to get my attention. But what freaking killed me about him was in my league, you didn't get partial points, so you needed to gain 10 yards rushing or receiving for a point. And I don't know how many games he had where he finished with x9 yards rushing and y9 yards receiving. It was just infuriating.

by mmm... sacrilicious (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:04pm

I can't understand why Mueller still has a job (I'm a Lions fan, so I'm sensitive to crappy, employed GMs). It seems like every signing he's made in Miami has backfired, and his last draft produced a WR that can't play WR and a 26 year old QB that, evidently, isn't ready to play yet.

by Noah of Arkadia (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:07pm

Maybe this article will help some Dolphin fans who shall go nameless but who posted after the Jets game to talk Ronnie down after what he did in that game -he gained about 200 combined yards-; help them, I say, start celebrating the only good thing this team has this year, instead of bashing him without truce.

Thanks for the Dolphins focus, FO!

And by the way, I vote for Lemon, and for Beck only if Lemon blows, and only late in the year. If Beck is going to learn by watching a QB play from the sidelines, let him watch Peyton Manning on a pocket TV to be hidden inside a raincoat he shall now wear every game whether rain or shine...

by Sergio (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:08pm

re: 15

The thing is, Mueller was under direct fire to improve this offense. It's very hard to do so without high picks, and Ginn was a justifiable pick in that regard. As to his actual ability (either in general or in the pros), that's another story. He looks like another Chambers to me (in paper; I have yet to see him do anything of importance offensively).

I agree the olphins (no D, har har) would've been better served with, say, Amobi Okoye this year, and next year someone in the offensive side, but then again, that's hindsight. At the draft, everyone thought the Dolphins' D would be great. However, this must change Mueller's plan for next year: defense should be top priority.

re: 16

The thing is, and I think FO research backs me up, it's very hard to get elite LTs outside the top 10. So if we end up there, we might as well take a chance on Long (or whoever's the top candidate available). Carey has been decent, but he's much better at the RT position. It's worth a shot.

Of course, if there's a can't miss defensive prospect there...

re: 19

What bothers me about Green is that he's throwing the ball really badly. It's not an issue of time or protection (or even the receivers being open) as it is his touch; he's erratic. He can thread the needle in one play and then underthrow Chambers in the endzone by about 5 yards on another (and get picked off, of course). I still stand by my decision to keep him in if you're not planning on bringing Beck into the fold, though.

by Noah of Arkadia (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:12pm

Also, while I understand the fury of fans over getting Ginn at #9, I don't understand their fury over not having the #9 pick play after 4 games. The #1 pick isn't playing either, and look who's playing ahead of him. WRs are slow to develop, so give the guy a break. To quote (or maybe misquote) the quick reads from this week, that Steeler WR (Santonio Holmes?) is "yet another case of a WR that was written off after his rooky season only to break out the following year."

by Chris Mazzone (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:28pm

I've been arguing in favor of Brown for awhile now. Sometimes at Finheaven.com and other times at my blog...



by James, London (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:29pm

#18, 22,

I believe that Long is an LT. I mentioned a Top-5 pick being spent on a Guard, because ultimately, that is what Oakland have done with Gallery, the last "can't miss" OT prospect. And I'd be totally unsuprised if Miami ended up with an wasting a 1st round pick. They seem to specialise in it.

by James, London (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:43pm


I don't know I'm on board with "Fire Mueller". He and Cameron inherited an awful roster. Talented but ageing D, and an Offense more or less devoid of talent (Ronnie Brown excepted).

Saban spent Lots of picks and FA dollars spent shoring up the defense, and next to nothing on the other side of the ball, and of course, Miami are suffering terribly from the draft wasteland that was the Wannstedt/Spielman era. The Joey Porter signing looks bad (and did to most people at the time), but hoping for 1 more year from the D while they begin to reconstruct the offense was a reasonable expectation.

You might not like Beck & Ginn Jr (I didn't like the Ginn at the time), but at least there seems to be a plan.

by TED F!@#ING GINN!? (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:47pm

Re: 30

"WRs are slow to develop, so give the guy a break"

I've never been mad at Ted Ginn the person. It is Ted Ginn, the draft pick that I am so critical of.

If WRs take a while to develop, how good will Dwayne Bowe be in 3 years? I would rather have had him than Ginn. How about having Patrick Willis? That would have been great. This isn't hindsight because both of those players are players who just about everyone would have taken before Ginn.

Yes, Ted Ginn is fast. He could turn into Devin Hester, or even better, Steve Smith. The problem is, he is a lot more likely to turn into Bethel Johnson.

With all that said, I hope I'm wrong about him and he turns out the be incredible, but I doubt it.

by TED F!@#ING GINN!? (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 3:54pm

Re: 32

I never said I didn't like Beck. I don't know anything about him, other than what I've heard from friends in Miami. And they say he looks pretty good. I'd just like to see him in a couple of games this year to see if there is potential there since there won't be anything to play for in a few weeks.

Kind of OT: I know Beck is older because he did the Mormon missionary thing before attending BYU, right?

Does anyone know if Steve Young did the same thing?

by Tom (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 4:36pm

Re 32:

You must have missed the last two drafts when D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Joe Thomas were the can't miss offensive line prospects.

1 out of 3 ain't bad.

by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 4:57pm

"Yes, Ted Ginn is fast. He could turn into Devin Hester, or even better, Steve Smith. The problem is, he is a lot more likely to turn into Bethel Johnson."

Bethel Johnson is a great example. Anquan Boldin was taken what, 5 picks after him?

by Lou (not verified) :: Wed, 10/03/2007 - 4:58pm

according to wikipedia Young was born in 61, his senior year at BYU was 83 and his first year in the USFL was 84, so I guess not.