Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

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Two NFC teams were hit hardest by injuries last year. One already set the AGL record in 2016, while the other has a coach with the worst AGL since 2002. Also: the Rams' incredible bill of health in L.A., and Tampa Bay's questionable injury reporting.

Open 2006 Draft Discussion II

Here is the open thread to discuss the first day of this year's NFL Draft as it happens. We'll also be posting links to round-by-round recaps by Michael David Smith and Mike Tanier over at FOXSports.com, and don't forget that MDS will be blogging about the first round at Deadspin.com.

To prevent page-loading problems, a new thread will go up on Sunday morning for day two. Don't forget to visit Mike Tanier's chat about the draft as the second day begins, noon Eastern on Sunday at BaseballProspectus.com.

You'll find Part I of the 2006 NFL Draft Open Discussion on this page.


by wes (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 6:30pm

Anyone remember the site that had all of the mock drafts summarized?

by David (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 6:50pm

If you mean the Draft Muncher (summarizes and synthesizes mock drafts into one giant average draft), click my name.

If you meant something else, then don't. See if I care.

by beedubyuh (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 7:08pm

Attention. I would like to go on record now. Assuming the Bears keep the #26 pick, they will take either Mercedes Lewis or Bobby Carpenter. That is all.

by wes (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 7:17pm

I clicked on your name. It's what I was looking for. Thanks.

by Theo (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 8:25pm

Will the Saints really make the same mistake the Chargers made?

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 8:33pm

5 - I don't believe that they will pick Ryan Leaf, no.

by kennedy (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 8:37pm

My wierd prediction is that Houston trades down. If not, they take Bush, which would work out ok. He could split carries, play a little receiver, and return kicks. Too bad they have no o-line. The worst thing for Bush would be to wind up with a John Gruden, give the rookie 40 carries a game coach.

by Basilicus (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 8:40pm

I'm still standing by what I've been saying for weeks. Casserly will select someone other than Bush at #1. Before I was thinking D'Brickashaw Ferguson, but Mario Williams is obviously their preference and is more of a sure thing. Either would help more than Bush and I think Casserly knows it. So don't be surprised when Mario Williams gets called as the #1 overall pick tomorrow. (This message is approved by Basilicus, who reserves the right to be wrong, but has been saying this for weeks.)

by Crushinator (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 8:51pm

I think that the Texans DO want to trade down, but if they can't find takers then whatever. The fact that they're negotiating with two players also seems to bear that out. That team has a lot of holes to fill, its more than Reggie Bush away. Even if Reggie Bush is the next Barry Sanders, he'd be walking into a similiar situation to those Lions teams.

by Why not? (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:24pm

I predict a fight between Jets fans and Raiders. Two men enter one man leave. Who runs Barter Town?

by JRM (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:25pm

There is a rumor out there that the Texans have reached an agreement with Mario Williams and will select him with the #1 pick. No Bush, no trading down.

IMO Bush never made sense for the Texans, but they could have traded down to #4- I would have even given the Jets a Dallas Chart Discount- and they would have been able to land Williams or Ferguson at that spot for less money, and had another pick or two to show for it.

by Why not? (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:26pm

I also predict that the Texans WILL SIGN Mario Williams and not pick Reggie Bush.

by JRM (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:29pm

That team has a lot of holes to fill, its more than Reggie Bush away.

Filling holes is easy, while finding elite, superstar players isn't.

by JRM (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:30pm

I also predict that the Texans WILL SIGN Mario Williams and not pick Reggie Bush.

NFL Network says it's a done deal.


by Borat (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:44pm

I'm thinking if the Jets want Reggie, the 4, 29 + mid/late round pick shoulld do it for them. New Orleans isn't dealing from a position of strength (with McAllister and Bennet already on the roster), and will most likely get Ferguson or Hawk at 4 anyways

by Why not? (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:45pm

RE 14: Just call me David Blaine NFL Draft Magician. Ha...ok so I cheated, don't all magicians?

Now this draft gets interesting. New Orleans should really trade down.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:54pm

Great play there by Casserly. Announce what you're actually doing at the time when every journalist in the nation is talking about how GMs put up smokescreens around now, and thereby convince everybody you're not really interested in the player you actually sign.

As for whether it was the right pick - well, time will tell. But I certainly buy the argument that Williams will have a bigger effect on Houston than Bush would have.

by Adam (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 10:24pm

I know a lot of people will criticize this pick, but I love it for Houston. It may not sell tickets, but it might help them win a few more football games.

by Jon (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 10:32pm

I like the Williams pick for Houston. He can give the Texans 40-60 snaps per game while Bush will get 15 carries and a few returns per game. Now the fun starts. New Orleans would be dumb to take Bush because they already have Deuce McAllister so that wouldn't be much of an upgrade. The Saints ought to trade the #2 pick to the Jets (who desparately need a running back) and take Ferguson at #4. Getting Ferguson would give NO a ridiculously good O-Line for Brees to work behind. Only three teams in the top 10 need a RB (Jets, Niners, and maybe the Lions) so the Saints might have a tough time getting good compensation for the pick.

by Jay (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 10:50pm

Williams going #1 is more about combine stats than real production. He was streaky and would impact a game a great deal from time to time. But there were better defensive college players in the ACC than Williams.

by JRM (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:21pm

This is the best draft monkey-wrench I can remember. For months everyone thought Bush was a lock for the #1...until the eve of the draft. Good stuff.

In 1991 everyone thought Raghib Ismail would go #1, but a) it was a foregone concusion that New England would trade the pick, since Ismail didn't want to play here, b) the rumors of Ismail going to Canada started a few weeks before the draft, and c) IIRC he signed with Toronto a few days before the draft.

It was still a surprise to see Russell Maryland go #1.

by usedbread (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:25pm

while i agree that the jets need a rb, i dont think they need/want bush. as far back as i can remember the jets have had smashmouth style backs, which bush def. isnt.

i have them penciled in to pick up d'angelo williams at the 29.

by BC Pat (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:29pm

re: 21

why did rocket prefer cfl to nfl coming out of nd?

by Dan (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:33pm

Ummmm... the last three marquee Jet backs (aside from short-timers like Johnny Johnson and Blair Thomas) have been Curtis Martin, Adrian Murrell and Freeman McNeil. There's not a smashmouth back other than Curtis - and he's debatable - in that group.

Not that the Jets' traditions, such as they are, are at issue here. I'd look to Mangini's history and pedigree. Neither Belichick nor Parcells have typically had, or pursued, flashy speed backs. I don't think they'll move up for Bush, though they may take him from a pure value standpoint if he somehow falls to fourth, which is not going to happen.

Assuming the Titans take Young, the Jets will be left with Leinart, Ferguson and A.J. Hawk. And I continue to think that Hawk would be the best choice for the organization, given the relative value of the players, the Jets' pending move to a 3-4 set, and the need for another defensive playmaker.

by JRM (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:34pm

Re: #23- a bunch of celebrities invested in the Toronto Argonauts franchise and offered him a huge deal.

by Dan (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:35pm

Then again, I could be wrong. ESPN just reported that five teams, including the Jets and Packers, have called the Saints about moving into the two spot.

by NF (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:36pm

What is the potential for the Jets making a pick now that triggers a riot? If they trade up to #2 in order to take D'Brickashaw, is it possible that a mob doesn't burn down their practice facility. Remember, this is a team that traded their 1st round pick last year for a TE that has done squat and took a kicker with their second-round pick.

by Jake (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:39pm

What a clustefuck!

Let me get this straight:

The reason this is a good idea is because the Saints and Jets don't want Bush, either? Christ. He's going to great. That pick is so valuable...

by Led (not verified) :: Fri, 04/28/2006 - 11:51pm

Re: #27, the moves were bad enough without exagerrating their badness! The Jets did not trade their first rounder for Jolley straight up. They traded down, giving up their first rounder for Jolley and the Raiders second rounder, with which they took Nugent. They drafted Justin Miller (whom after one year I think will be a very good player) with their own second rounder. So they essentially traded a late first rounder for Jolley and Nugent. Not a good deal by any stretch, but not as bad as your description made it sound.

by BC Pat (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:21am


the 27th pick for a backup tight end and an blah kicker is highway robbery.

As a Pats fan one can only hope Mike Tennenbaum didn't get the FO memo on that and continues his drafting ways!

by RCH (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:29am

Don't see the Jets trading up when they have as many holes as they do. A trade back to 6 would make sense, as SF covets Vernon Davis, and Jets could still get Ferguson. (Assuming 2-5 is Bush, Young, Davis, Hawk).

by Led (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:32am

"the 27th pick for a backup tight end and an blah kicker is highway robbery"

But it's better than the 27th pick for JUST a backup tight end! That's my point. People always refer to it as a straight up trade. I happen to think Nugent will be a good kicker, but it doesn't really effect the analysis that much. Trading the 27th pick for a backup tight end and a good kicker is still a bad deal.

by RCH (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:39am

Anyone else think that the Packers looking for a 1st for Javon Walker is ridiculous? The guy hasn't played since a major injury and has had one big year. Meanwhile Dillon and Culpepper went for 2nd rounders.

by Dan (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:46am

33, agree that the Packers shouldn't get a #1 for Walker, relative to the value received for other players in the past. But why not ask, in order to determine whether that's what he's worth?

Peter King is reporting that the Saints are going to keep the #2 and draft Bush. ESPN rumor aside, I don't see the Jets trading up. I think they'll take Ferguson at four, and look for a RB and either LB or TE at 29 and 35.

by David (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:58am

The Texans are idiots for this move. Absolute idiots. The worst move I have seen since Ditka traded for RB Ricky Williams. To pass up on Reggie Bush is like passing up on Michael Jordan when he came out. I am amazed. I have watched college football all my life and have never seen a player so ready and blessed with the talent to dominate the NFL like Reggie Bush. And to take Mario Williams, a DE with a questionable motor who did nothing in the 1st half of the season is stupid. Game-breaking RBs win MVPs. They can make an offense succeed based on their own sheer brilliance (see Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders). No defensive end can ever be as valuable b/c they don't have the ball in their hands.

Reggie Bush alone would make any NFL team stronger instantly.

Mario Williams plays defense...one great defensive player (and he is not even ready to be great - he needs to learn how to shed blocks better plus his motor is inconsistent) does not make a defense great. Even if Williams turns out to be awesome as a rookie (extremely unlikely) how much can it help? Defense is more of a team game than offense.

The offense would have been helped more with Reggie Bush than the defense would have been helped with Mario.

And I don't care what Pasquerelli says, this was all about the money. It always is about the money. Bush probably wanted $30 million and the Texans didn't want to deal with the headache.

Why should I be surprised though...this is the same organization that allowed their star QB to be physically abused every week for three straight seasons. Had they taken Ferguson, I would have been more ok with the decision but they didn't even do that.

What an awful decision.

by Derek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:00am

Assuming that you are correct in thinking that Bush will have very limited touches and leaving aside his receiving ability, how do you compare 40-60 snaps for a defensive lineman to 15 carries and a few returns a game? The draft is all guesswork but I think you have to admit that some running backs can contribute more than some other defensive linemen. What everyone wants to know is how dominant each player will be at their position.

by Tom (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:02am

Which would you rather have, Javon Walker, who's been a pretty good NFL receiver, or draft a receiver this year? I'm as big a Santonio Holmes fan as anybody, but, Randy Moss aside, first year receivers can't do for you what Walker can do. And if Tennessee could get a #2 for Justin McCareins, it doesn't seem that unreasonable to me that they could get a #1 for Walker.

by masocc (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:08am

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Pack will trade their #5 overall pick and Walker to the Saints for the #2 (Bush). (Or this trade will occur post picking.) The 'Aints take whomever's left out of D-Brick or Vernon Davis.

This give Favre another weapon this year, and then they can use Reggie to entice a decent to good FA quarterback to sign if Rodgers can't hack it. Oh, and Ahman Green may or may not become expendable.

by BC Pat (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:18am

re: 35

I totally agree with the Jordan reference. Mario Williams is the 21st century's Sam Bowie. We'll be looking back and laughing at this year's from now.

by The Skeptic (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:27am

Reggie Bush sure looked great running behind the best offensive line in college football didnt he? I wonder how he would look running for his life behind that Houston offensive line. Anyone who watched Bush religiously would note that he has a tendency to try to do to much, to freelance excessively, to not follow his blocks, and to incur huge losses (as well as huge gains). This is attributable to what Simmons calls the "I'm Keith Hernandez" phenomenon. Bush will make an okay pro, but he is no barry sanders.

Mario Williams is a tremendous liability at #1; he took entire series off at NCSU and was not at all dominant. I feel Manny Lawson will end up a better pro than him. I think the #1 pick and the only GUARANTEED great player in this draft is AJ Hawk...but GMs always like to go for the home run, which is why they end up with #1 picks like Courtney Brown.

by Becephalus (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:29am

Or reggie Bush will have a career ending injury in preseason...I think its a little early to say what we will be laughing at a year from now before the draft has even occured, much less a few games played.

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:12am

#35 I couldn't possibly be more with you on this. Why is everyone overthinking this so much? Charlie Casserole, way to add your name to the list of worst GMs of all time based on one move, despite any previous success.

I mean... did you guys watch this guy play? Reggie Bush is THE TRUTH!!! He's been flat out embarrasing would be tacklers for years and now he's going to the NFL where we spend all this time complaining about the lost art of tackling. I mean, this guy is going to be unstoppable. Think Marshall Faulk with more explosiveness. Ladanian, but instead of jogging out of bounds, stunning cut backs and 80 yard play of the year runs. Shaun Alexander with a c0ck. Bo Jackson speed and Barry Sanders cutbacks. I mean, who was the last must-watch college player? I would honestly like to know, because I never cared about college football until Reggie Bush.

Nice work Texans. Good thing you're a fake ass team that shouldn't exist anyways.

by JRM (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:16am

Reggie Bush sure looked great running behind the best offensive line in college football didnt he?

1. Yes- I was amazed at how easily SC demolished UCLA last year. The SC guys were the bowling ball and UCLA's guys were the pins. I was truly amazed.

2. But Bush was really good on his own.

Repeating from previous threads- every team that passes on Matt Lienart will be extremely sorry.

by Tom (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:18am

For whatever reason, Reggie Bush reminds me of Curt Warner. I fully expect his first play from scrimage to be an 80 yard sideline scamper for six. I hope the rest of his career doesn't follow a similar pattern, but I don't know, he feels like the type.

by Tom (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:18am

I understand why the Texans didn't take Reggie Bush or a QB as they already have those positions "filled" and it would be a poor allocation of resources. However, the 1st pick makes a lot more money than the other draft picks. So why spend #1 money on a player that isn't the #1 talent? That's my main problem with the pick. The Texans are comparing Williams to Julius Peppers -- he'd better be as that's what they are paying him. Another reason why the Texans have been terrible.

by JRM (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:38am

It needs to be said- Houston has put Mario Williams in a difficult situation here. He'll have to be Bruce Smith II in order to be judged as anything but a disappointment.

If Bush succeeds, he's screwed no matter what. If Bush doesn't...he still may bomb, as first rounders sometimes do.

Mario Williams is in a bad spot.

by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:42am

Has anyone else been turned off to Matt Leinart based on his ESPN puff pieces?

First one I saw... "I don't like getting up in the morning, I'm not a morning person if I am grumpy."

Second one I saw... "When I was at USC I had huge confidence problems, but then we started winning and I was okay..."

Third one I saw... "I'm such a happy-go-lucky immature child."

Anyone else feel this way, especially when compared to Vince Young... kind've funny after Wondergate.

by Laszlo Panaflex (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:10am

Anyone catch Reggie's dazzling destruction of Fresno on ESPN Classic today?

Maybe he doesn't fit the needs of the teams at the top of the draft, but I can't help wondering how many of the honchos from those teams are thinking about Sam Bowie tonight?

by Devin McCullen (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:23am

If the Jets are talking to the Saints, just don't go nuts about it. Yes, RB is a need, so trading up to try and get Bush makes sense. But there's a good chance the Saints won't want him (and the Titans pretty much HAVE to take a quarterback), so they might be able to sit tight and have him fall in their laps. And worst case scenario, they still have all their picks and can take Ferguson.

Trading up isn't a bad move, but getting caught in a bidding war is.

by NF (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:24am

Who else here thinks the Eagles are using their second round pick on a future free safety?

by Charles (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:26am

With the first pick in the draft, the Texans could have:

1) The best running back to come down the pipeline in a long, long time.
2) A Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback who is dedicated, clean-living, bright, and tremendously productive in a pro-style offense.
3) The scrambleback who singlehandedly dismantled one of the best teams in the history of college football.
4) The second- or third- best defensive end in the game last year, with a history of lack of effort and ineffectiveness against good tackles.

The Texans may well surpass the '76-77 Bucs for futility. They might not win a game. They certainly don't deserve to.

by Tom (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:41am

It's funny to look back and realize that Kris Brown missed those kicks so they could take Mario Williams. I can just see the reasoning -- "Kris, miss this kick and we'll overreach and take a player for signability....Brilliant!"

by jim\'s apple pie (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:46am

The Texans broke the cardinal rule when it comes to turning around losing teams: fix the offense first. Offensive players tend to be more consistent year to year, and a stong offense and weak defense will still keep fans interested because of the excessive scoring. I'm not saying to ignore defense, because a great DE and a good defense are usually aspects of Super Bowl teams, but taking Mario Williams first is just ridiculous. The Texans compare him to Julius Peppers ... but should a team even give Peppers that kind of money? At the expense of a talent like Bush? The problem is that Williams has to be absolutely dominant in order to justify the money and the "loss" of Bush. He has to provide consistent pressure, get some sacks, and be stout against the run. He couldn't even do that in college, where he's playing against inferior competition. And now the Texans think that he can provide that in the pros?

I actually like Williams, but I just don't think he should be going this high in the draft. I'm always suspect of anyone that rise a great deal between the end of the college season and the draft. While a great college player may not have what it takes to make it in the pros, I usually find it hard to believe that a player that isn't dominant in college will somehow develop into a great player in the NFL. Sure, it happens sometimes, but I think that it is usually a result of misuse, or misjudgment of talent, or something else that results in less playing time. The fact that Williams seems to take plays off is not damning, but I think it makes him suspect. One trait that is almost guaranteed to prevent a successful NFL career is a poor work ethic.

I might as well get the rest of my draft thoughts down now:

Williams probably should have been ranked behind Bush, Hawk, Leinart, Ferguson, Young, and maybe even Davis (in that order).

Cutler shouldn't even be a first round pick (he's Losman II).

A lot of these 1st round cornerbacks are going to be busts. Cromartie might end up being the best, but the history of tall corners is not encouraging. I think Huff will make a great free safety for a team that has a Rodney Harrison-like strong safety (run-stopper).

I think the Jets are going to have a fantastic draft if they just stay put. Take Ferguson at 4, hope for D'Angelo Williams to drop to them, and then pick up whatever LB or TE drops out of the first round with their second round pick. Although I can't see how they could pass on Leinart if he's there.

Winston Justice will not be a great pro. He might turn into a solid RT.

I think Denver is going to somehow shoot themselves in the foot with this draft ... or maybe I just hope they will.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 4:25am

It's not a terrible pick- you simply don't get players with Mario Williams' measureables at that position very often, and he's only a junior, which means that he figures to get bigger and stronger. At the very worst, you figure he's going to control the line of scrimmage, provide some pass rush and have the ability to drop into coverage on zone blitzes. He's a far better prospect than D'brickashaw Ferguson, who was the other possibility if the Texans were going to draft for need. But it's certainly not a case of Houston maximizing the value of the pick.

You get the feeling that Houston always wanted to trade down, but they got screwed when the Saints signed Drew Brees and put the #2 pick up for auction. At that point, no one even called Houston. (Not that many people called the Saints, either.) The funny thing is that I think New Orleans is in the exact same position. Reggie Bush may be on the top of their board, but he's not the player they want to take- they'd be happier with Ferguson or AJ Hawk. They're going to posture and flex for the next twelve hours, but at the end of the day, I don't think they have much leverage. They don't want to take an offer from a team that's down in the seven or lower range, as they'll have no shot at getting either prospect there. I think you're looking at San Francisco, Green Bay and New York as the only likely trading partners. (Throw in the fact that Bush's agent is saying Reggie won't sign with New Orleans and you could easily see an Eli/Elway scenario where Bush orchestrates his way to San Francisco or New York.)

Re 31: Holes mean absolutely nothing. Reggie Bush is the best prospect at his position I've ever seen. You don't pass him up so you can draft a center. You sign a center off someone's practice squad and go on about your business.

The Jets are in a uniquely flexible position. They have enough first day picks that they could trade the 4, the 29 and a fourth rounder for Bush and still have the standard complement of picks, including a pick in every round. That said, they may feel that Bush will drop to them at four, and they would have some justification for feeling that way. At the end of the day, the Saints may look at the money they have tied up in Deuce McAllister and Michael Bennett and decide that they need to take Ferguson, and Tennessee has put themselves in a position where they almost have to take a quarterback. Each team will want to use Bush as leverage for a big trade, but every one of them is standing on feet of clay.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 4:29am

Re 53: They won't. The Jets had their board ranked Williams-Leinart-Ferguson. If they don't get Bush, and if Tennessee takes Vince Young as they are reportedly ready to do, the Jets will take Leinart at four. And it would be the right thing to do. Houston is supposedly looking to trade up into the bottom of the first round to take Deangelo Williams, and their rationale is that the combination of Williams and Williams will give them a higher graded pair of players than if they took Bush at 1 and then took the top defensive lineman on the board-probably Hali-in the second round. The Jets could be thinking the same way. Leinart is a franchise quarterback and far better than Brodie Croyle or Kellen Clemens, while the Jets could still land a very competent offensive tackle prospect with the 29th or 35th pick (or later- I probably like Daryn Colledge as much as any other prospect, and he may be there at 71).

by Paul (London,UK) (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 7:13am

I've been watching the NFL since it was first shown on British TV about 23 years ago but even after all this time, the draft still confuses me so I would be grateful if someone could answer a few questions :

1. What happens if a player is picked by, say, the Cardinals but realises this could be bad for his career.

2. Do all draft positions have a designated monetary value. If so, how can one player sign for less than another.

3. Knowing how valuable Reggie Bush is to other teams, why wouldn't the Texans take him and trade down. It would appear they could still have got Williams but with a bit extra.

4. Do terms have to be agreed before a team can draft a particular player.

5. If so, do terms have to be agreed even if you intend trading a player and are those terms in any way binding on the team you trade to.

I'm sure this won't be the last of my requests for an idiot's guide to the draft but thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

by Travis (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 7:45am

Some quick answers:

1. If the player is good enough, he can try to force the team that drafted him to trade him to another team. This happened with (among others) 1983 #1 John Elway (Colts to Broncos), 1987 #2 Cornelius Bennett (Colts to Bills), and 2004 #1 Eli Manning (Chargers to Giants).

If the player remains unsigned for the entire season, he goes back into the draft pool for the following season. This happened with 1986 #1 Bo Jackson, who refused to sign with the Buccaneers and was drafted in 1987 by the Raiders.

2. The draft positions don't have a designated monetary value. Generally speaking, however, the #1 overall pick signs for a more valuable contract than the #2 overall pick, the #2 overall pick signs for a more valuable contract than the #3 overall pick, and so on. Once several drafted players sign and establish the general market, the rest usually agree to terms comparable to their draft position.

There is also a general rookie salary pool, which restricts the money each team can pay to rookies for the next season
. Each team has a different rookie salary pool amount, based on number of draft picks and draft position.

3. Who knows. The Texans are not known as a smart organization.

4. No. Only the team drafting #1 is allowed to negotiate contract terms with potential draftees before the draft, unless the #1 team has already come to terms with its pick, in which case the #2 team can do so as well, and so on.

5. No.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 8:31am

55 - Also, this way the Texans can begin to compete with the Jags for most players called Williams in the division.

I'm not suprised by this pick. I might almost have been more suprised if an offensive coach out of Denver picked a running back with the #1 overall. Everything I heard about the Texans as an organisation seemed to be against them signing Bush.

by Led (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 9:03am

"The Jets had their board ranked Williams-Leinart-Ferguson."

Sean: Is that your speculation/deduction, or is it based on inside information. If the former, can you explain your reasoning? It seems reasonable, but given all the smokescreens, "leaked" information and quotes by people "close to the organization," I don't know how you can be that confident. Weren't you talking up Cutler to the Jets not that long ago?

by Daniel (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 9:49am

I didn't relize that Reggie Bush was the greatest player to come into the NFL in a decade. Every year there are great players, and some guys who don't work out. Reggie Bush couldn't hold Barry Sander's jock. Sanders and Jim Brown are the only two RBs to average 5 ypc in there careers and neither one was drafted #1 overall Brown #6 in 1957, Sanders #3 1989). And both had Hall of Fame players taken before them (Paul Horning, Ron Kramer, Len Dawson, Troy Aikman). Could it be that people are overreacting to the Texan's decision?

by jack (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 10:37am

I'm amazed at the hostility at the Texan's decision. While Bush's record at USC is amazing, there are a number of question marks with this guy. I have yet to see highlight reel where this guy takes a hit and then is able to move forward and/or break a tackle. And the holes that are generated for him at USC are just going to happen with the same regularity in the big leagues.

And if he such a once in a generation supra talent, essentially going to revolutionize the position, where were the offers for the 1st overall pick? I have to wonder if other teams scouts as well as the Texans aren't exactly sold on him.

by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 11:34am


Gale Sayers averaged 5 yards per carry. So the two guys that people compare Bush to averaged 5 yards per carry...

If things go the way that some of us want them to, Deuce = LenDale.

by Alan Milnes (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 11:47am

All the analysis of the Bush decision and no one mentions the scandal - Bush is tainted goods, getting bad advice, who will probably hold out. He may well be a great player but the decision has to factor all that into it.

by Rocco (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 11:51am


They also could have taken the best OT in college last year who would have been a top-5 pick had he come out as a junior.

I live in ACC country, and I never remember thinking that Williams was that good. None of my friends thought that either. At some point, a groupthink set in amongst the draftniks where they became convinced Williams was awesome. I don't get it.

by jebmak (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:01pm

I don't see why so many people are convinced that Bush is going to be one of the greatest players ever. Yes, I don't think that I want him on the Jets to play the Dolphins twice per year, but college players go bust 'all the time'. There is probably a 40% chance that he ends up way underperforming, the draft isn't a sure thing. Remember, quite a few people questioned the Colt's when they took Manning over Leaf (though I doubt that many would admit it now), and last year's sure thing to not bust, Robert Galley, hasn't been that great thus far (yeah I know it is early).

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:23pm

Gallery was two years ago. Last year there was generally reckoned not to be anyone anything like a sure thing. The closest might have been Ronnie Brown.

by CA (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:25pm

Re: 65

It's not that it's a sure thing that Bush is going to be great. It's that Bush appears to have a better chance by far to be great than any other player available in this draft. Bush may be a bust or merely serviceable, but I think, and so do most "experts," that it is a lot more likely that Mario Williams, and just about every other player available, turns out to be abust or merely serviceable.

by Digit (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:46pm

If people feel like a chatroom, there's Footballoutsiders on AIM. Just enter. :D

by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:46pm

Jets and Saints seriously talking trade, according to Sal Palantonoionnonknln.

by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:49pm

Who were the people here saying the Jets won't draft a QB?

I'm sure Patrick Ramsey must be loving this...

by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:52pm

... and I can't believe we actually are following one of the most boring things on television.

Wouldn't it be in the Texans best interest to announce Williams at the beginning of their time? That way you put pressure on the other teams?

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:54pm

#63: I can almost guarantee you that Bush will not hold out particularly long. Bush doesn't have the character issues; he's got a lot of incentive to sign early, he's quite cognizant of his options and what 'hold out' means for a career. Honestly? I think that if the Saints do draft him he'll be signed within 2 days, and if they don't he'll be signed within a week or so.

Williams vs. Bush: at best, Williams can be a good DE. At best, Bush can be a hall of fame RB. I think the main reason the Texans did this was based on need (or lackthereof) of another RB, and they will end up regretting it for a long, long time. On the other hand, the Saints are starting to look like a team that may do really well next season, particularly if they can get Walker down there to play.

by asg (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 12:55pm

#70: No chance it doesn't leak out 15 minutes after the contract is signed.

by Zach (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:02pm

ESPN's open confused and disturbed me

by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:05pm



by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:11pm

Watching Michael Irvin all day will be extremely comical at first......and extremely painful later.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:14pm

And Houston is on the clock, making themselves the new Saints (70's and 80's), Bengals (90's) or Browns (90's - 00's).

by Chris M (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:16pm

Mario Williams screams Courtney Brown to me.

by ezra (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:16pm

and jets fans open the day by chanting "overrated" as williams walks on the stage. we may see a performance for the ages by the J-E-T-S fans today.

by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:18pm

ESPN could increase ratings for the draft by replacing Michael Irvin with Rachel Nichols. Rachel doesn't even have to say anything....she can just sit there.

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:18pm

What are Charlie Casserole's qualifications by the way? Is it true he made his name building the Joe Gibbs Redskins?

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:19pm

New Orleans is on the clock. Apparently they're picking Reggie Bush, although this one seems to be less official than Williams (especially now).

by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:21pm

69: Pat can't seem to catch a break.

9:30 until we see what happens with your New Orleans Saints.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:22pm

Lots of talk so far about NO asking the world for the second pick. Sitting running back heavy as they are, I don't see why they don't take both of the Jets 1st rounders and let it go at that?

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:24pm

Yes, Casserly started as a scout for the Skins in the early 80s and worked his way up the ranks to become GM in the second half of the 90s. His biggest coup is widely regarded as being the orchestration of the Ricky Williams trade.

by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:28pm


by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:29pm

Wow, Jet fans suck. :)

So Brees, Bush, possibly Walker, Horn...if they get a good TE, they'll turn into (on paper at least) a really scary version of the SD offense.

by admin :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:29pm

Reggie Bush really does not look like he is enjoying himself right now. But the Saints sure do look like they're moving in the right direction.

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:30pm

So... finally a Bush goes to New Orleans. Heheheheheheheh

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:32pm

So does NO keep Bush and a rehabbing McAllister or does Deuce get shipped somewhere (Indy, maybe?)

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:33pm

So, the Tennessee Titans are on the clock. NFL Network were reporting Vince Young, who our mock Titans GM got at #8.

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:34pm

I heard reports that NO wants to keep Bush fresh, which means that they would keep McAllister to be his new Lendale White.

by charles 2.0 (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:35pm

casserly built the crappy norv turner redskins, bobby beathard built the superbowl 80's redskins.

by admin :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:35pm

And the Jeff Fisher and Norm Chow resignation countdown is on!

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:36pm

Do the Jets fans boo Leinart now?

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:37pm

The Field pass radio coverage is pretty good. Does anyone think the Jets will pass on Leinart?

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:37pm

Leinart to the Jets, or should the Leinart freefall clock begin?

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:38pm

I am right in thinking there is no way they can keep McNair, right? Unless he agrees to restructure, which he has said he won't.

by Bob Ino (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:39pm

Let me see if I got it right. Texans don't select Bush because they already have an injury prone Dominick and a bad defense. Saints already have an injury prone Deuce. Must be that they have a good defense...

by mattman (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:39pm

Props to MDS for calling Young to the Titans.

If the Jets take Leinart, my D'Brick to the Eagles plan is still on...

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:40pm

96 - it really is, isn't it? Best line so far "Vernon Davis can run a 4.38 40. Have you any idea how fast he can get out of their current quarterback's range?"

They're reporting the Jets will pick Ferguson. I will take a flyer here and suggest that the Jets fans will boo him.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:40pm

Interesting that they have S. Young commenting on this pick; in addition to sharing his name he's the player that V. Young reminds me most of.

by Moon Hippo (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:41pm

maybe the Jets will do something bizarre, and not take Leinart or D'brick?? I just want to see a riot happen i guess...

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:41pm

I can see the SI cover with Leinhart on Broadway in the Namath pose.

The Jets will probably take the tight end Vernon Davis.

by BillT (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:41pm

So what are the odds McNair gets cut now?

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:42pm

Reggie Bush just said in interview that he's hearing he might still be traded.

by cd6 (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:42pm

I mean, does anyone really know for sure that the Norm Chow connection was POSITIVE thing for Leinart's chances in Nashville? He might have been saying things like "Leinart has already hit his potential" etc

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:47pm

And there goes Young.

Wow. If someone told me that Leinart would have fallen to the Jets - and the Jets wouldn't take him - I'd have laughed two months ago. I think it's a risky pick that isn't likely to pay off next year.

Ferguson to the Jets. No big surprise; that was a huge hole for them and they've been saying for a while that they think they've got their QB thing dealt with.

by admin :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:48pm

Matt Leinart, meet Ben Roethlisberger. Ben Roethlisberger, meet Matt Leinart.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:49pm

And the Jets choose Broadway D'Brickashaw Ferguson. The crowd goes (mostly) wild. Mike Greenberg appears not to have killed himself.

Matt Leinart is now in freefall.

by Scott de B. (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:49pm

I am on record as saying last year that the 49ers should have kept Rattay and passed on Alex Smith, hoping to get Leinart this year. Now's their chance to undo their mistake, but I don't know if they'll have the cojones to do it. Otherwise, it looks like Leinart to the Raiders.

by charles 2.0 (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:50pm

Bill Simmons would say we have now seen the new "Matt Leinart Face."

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:51pm

Gods. Leinart to the Raiders - would they actually DO that? I mean, he doesn't have ridiculous character issues and swagger. Can Al Davis see beyond those bad points and choose correctly?

by Jon (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:51pm

Re 53: They won’t. The Jets had their board ranked Williams-Leinart-Ferguson. If they don’t get Bush, and if Tennessee takes Vince Young as they are reportedly ready to do, the Jets will take Leinart at four.


by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:52pm

111 - I don't think that Leinart is a sure thing in Oakland. I think Davis or Huff or Hawk (depending on who is there) to Oakland isn't an impossibility.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:54pm

Hawk will be taken by Green Bay. I think that's an absolute given no matter what. They're not going to draft Leinart, and I don't think they're going to go for Davis given their other needs. And reportedly they LOVE Hawk.

What's interesting is how close to the draft that DJ Gallo predicted this is becoming. Heh.

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:56pm

This draft is the most fun in a while!

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:58pm

ESPN Radio is reporting St Louis is trying to trade up to take Vernon Davis.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 1:59pm

On NFL Network, Sean Payton claims there is no plan to trade Bush, and NFLN further reports that the Saints have sent a plane to NYC to pick up Bush.

by Scott de B. (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:00pm

A.J. Hawk just looks like a football player. Either that or the bastard child of Kevin Sorbo.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:00pm

According to Leinart, Al Davis said that he reminded him of Kenny Stabler, which is probably a good thing. I can see Leinart to Oakland, and I doubt he'll be too unhappy at the prospect of throwing to Randy Moss.

Hawk to the Packers. I find myself shocked. No, really. Has there even been a mock draft (except Kirwan, who is inexplicably opposed to picking LBs in the top 10) that didn't predict this?

by cds (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:01pm

why would the Saints have "sent their plane" to New York to pick up Bush? Was the date and location of the draft a surprise to them somehow? Did they think that their pick might be in, oh, Fargo?

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:02pm

Yep, Hawk to the Packers. Not a surprise, but not a bad thing. I was honestly hoping for something wackier - I'm a Bears fan. :)

Bush fits really well in a Brees-led offensive scheme, and he fits in well with Saints needs. The Saints didn't have a great second receiving threat nor did they have a great threat out of the backfield; in Bush, they get both right out of the gate. Seriously, I think that unless they get some ridiculous offer, Bush is going to be theirs and they're going to thank their lucky stars Houston is idiotic.

by Michael David Smith :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:03pm

Hawk is going to be great for the Packers. As a Lions fan, I hate this pick.

I hope everyone at FO will stop over at Deadspin.com, where I'm providing draft commentary today.

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:04pm

Maybe the Saints were expecting to trade down to take one of the 5 guys who aren't in New York.

by Arkaein (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:04pm

When Leinart slid down the boards I had entertained the idea that the Pack might trade down and get a really good deal. However, that would have meant missing out on Hawk, which probably would have been a mistake. There aren't too many chances when best player available and position of greatest need are one and the same.

by someone (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:06pm

ESPN Radio sucks. It was too busy playing ten minutes of adverts to have the AJ Hawk pick live. What a joke.

by cds (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:06pm

Is Leinart the last one left in the draft room?

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:07pm

No surprise Davis going to the 49ers. I love the chops on this kid. The question is, can he make Alex Smith look good? Will Leinart kill himself if he goes to Oakland?

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:07pm

Michael "The cracksmoker" Irvin is all over the analysis of Vernon Davis's emotions and family story. Thanks Mike.

Leinhart to Moss? Oh boy.

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:07pm

49ers pick Davis. If the Raiders don't pick Leinart, are the Cardinals likely to pass on him, and if they do, where will he wind up?

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:09pm

Leinart won't fall past Arizona.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:09pm

Davis to the 49ers is like Williams to the Lions; the problem isn't that they didn't have targets. Ah well. I want to see him succeed.

Raiders, raiders, raiders. The inscrutable Raiders. I have no idea what the hell they'll do. It'd not be surprising if they traded their pick for some beer money and a chance to move to LA again.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:10pm

131 - James - I think Leinart would fit great in Arizona. Two quality wide receivers and a good running back with a decent line. Sit him for a year behind Kurt Warner to learn a little and watch him run wild.

by zip (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:10pm

I'm waiting for Buffalo to disappoint me.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:12pm

Re 114: Oops, indeed. I have to say I'm pretty surprised. Not the pick I would have made, but then again, I don't know how well Pennington's rehab is progressing.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:14pm

129 - Leinart has also claimed to be a Raiders fan. It's not implausible given that they were the Los Angeles Raiders until he was 12. I think Leinart will be happy enough in Oakland. Davis to the 49ers is a solid pick. Other than the first two being the wrong way around, so far this is going to form.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:14pm


Michael Huff? MICHAEL HUFF?

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:16pm

Huff to the Raiders. Could be a CB, could be a safety. Not a bad choice there. Arizona (I assume) gets a gift.

Is Jay Cutler quietly crying somewhere?

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:16pm

I wonder if that Jets trade up to 13 is still on. And is there a possibility Leinart is there along with/instead of Cutler?

by Moon Hippo (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:17pm

My god thats insane... i guess picking Leinart was too sensible a thing for the Raiders to do...

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:18pm

Why would they pick Leinart? The Raiders already have their franchise fly half.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:19pm

So....the Raiders actually like their current QB? Leinart might not be a Raiders fan any more. I think he has to go to Arizona, unless Buffalo grab him, which isn't impossible. If they do it'll be an interesting mirror of the FO reader mock draft where exactly the same thing happened, except that Buffalo traded up to #3 to grab Leinart and the Titans got Young at #8.

If he drops outside the top 10, it's either Baltimore or Minnesota, probably. Or at least, they're the two teams who kept being linked to Jay Cutler.

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:19pm

And no way Denny Green passes on Leinart. Poor Kurt.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:20pm

Wow, if the Jets managed to land Brick and Leinart/Cutler, Radio City might explode.

by zip (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:20pm

Come on Buffalo... BPA... you can do it...

by Moon Hippo (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:20pm

I just think Leinart is too good to slip this far... a lot of people are going to regret this.

by someone (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:21pm

Give it up for Gosselin. Guy had Leinart falling to the Cards in his last mock.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:22pm

140 - If the Jets somehow pull of D'Brickashaw AND Leinart, you'd have to pencil them in for the best draft this year, far and away.

by Peter (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:23pm

And the Detroit Lions pick ... Chad Jackson.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:23pm

Leinart would light it up in Arizona with that group of receivers. There are worse places for him to go.

But you know that Matt Millen is fiending to pull the trigger, even though he spent all offseason acquiring expensive, bad quarterbacks.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:24pm

146 - I sense a Bills fan very fed up with Losman.

145 - You could well be right. I don't think they'll get a first-round QB, but it isn't quite implausible enough to discount it. Especially in this draft. Brodie Croyle in the second is probably not that bad an idea either.

by peachy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:24pm

I say the Lions pick Leinart - and convert him to a wideout.

by mattman (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:24pm

Re 127 - Unfortunately, ESPN Radio can't alter its format because it deals with local affiliates, most of which are automating the broadcast. TV can adapt to the live event to make sure they don't miss any announcements, but unfortunately radio can't.

by zip (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:26pm


Not so much fed up with Losman as a firm believer in BPA. The Bills have a long way to go to get back to being competitive, so I dont think drafting for need is appropriate for them, and Lienart is by far the best guy left.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:26pm

Dante Whitner?

Wow. Okay. That seems like a massive reach.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:26pm


by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:26pm


by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:26pm

This thing is flying bye. 8 picks in 86 minutes? It's half an hour ahead.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:27pm

And the Bills make the first WTF pick of the draft. Must be something about the OSU d-backs that they just dig.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:27pm

OK. Now we have a curveball.


Note to Bills: Troy Polamalu went at 16. That's an awful high pick on a safety.

Is he going to play corner?

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:27pm

Someone on Sirius (possibly Randy Cross), just said that the Buffalo pick was from
"the department of wow!"

Unless he's Ronnie Lott, isn't #8 rather high for a safety, and is Whitner that good?

by zip (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:28pm

Who the hell is Donte Witner?

by David Mazzotta (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:29pm

So what does Martz think about Leinart?

by Moon Hippo (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:29pm

So Marv really is senile then? Wow... over to you Matt Millen - top that then!

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:29pm

Can someone explain to me what I'm doing wrong in trying to listen to the Field Pass coverage? My Realplayer window says "IN You have successfully signed in. You are now ready to enjoy NFL FieldPass", but when I hit Play nothing happens.

by Crushinator (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:30pm

Two safeties in the top 10.

I think MDS is going crazy now. The Lions are in a "no way we can screw this up" position. I bet Matt Millen is racking his brain trying to think how to best screw over Lions fans.

He's a creative guy, I bet he'll find a new and exciting way they haven't already experienced.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:30pm

161 - James - I'm in Columbus and I watched every OSU game over the past few years. Dante isn't THAT good. Not even close.

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:30pm

#164. Allegedly, they think he has potential at the receiver position.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:31pm

I didn't think the Raiders pick was great but it wasn't a surprise, but this? Insane. Just absolutely craziness. "From the department of wow" is a great way to describe it.

Aren't there a ton of good FA safeties out there too? Obviously, Buffalo didn't read a lot of what FO published in the last few weeks.

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:32pm

Loved the interview with Leinhart's agent. Leigh Steinberg is laughing.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:33pm

Is anybody watching ESPN? Has Kiper's hair caught on fire yet?

Maybe Millen figures that after spending three top picks on recievers he needs to stock up on quarterbacks to throw to all of them, but I somehow really cannot see Matt Leinart playing for the Lions.

If I were Leinart I would be thinking "Please. Not Detroit. I'll go to Arizona, I can even live with dropping out of the top 10. Don't make me play in Detroit."

by Nate (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:33pm

MDS - What's the over/under on Ernie Sims' concussion #6? Week 5 or so?

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:33pm

Mike Mayock's mock draft called the last 6 picks right, including Donte "WTF" Whitner.

Oh, but the streak is broken by DET.

by Santonio Holmes (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:33pm

Hey Detroit.

#$&* you too.

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:33pm

I guess Martz thinks he can get it done with Kitna or Mccown. Can Sims play WR?

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:34pm

So does Arizona make this pick in 30 seconds, or what?

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:36pm

And the Lions draft a LB. Man, he's going to be a project to convert to a WR.

Seriously, it's a decent pick and fills a need for them. Though I'm kind of surprised they didn't pick Ngata.

Don Banks so far is pretty accurate; aside from the insanity of Buffalo he's got 8 of 9 right, and most of the spots right.

And Leinart to the Cards. Not a shock. As a Hawks fan, Leinart, Edge, Boldin and Fitzgerald is a pretty scary notion. If only they had a decent line.

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:36pm

And our long national nightmare (or at least Matt Leinart's) is over.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:36pm

166 - you need to browse to nfl.com/fieldpass and click on the live radio link, which ought to be around somewhere.

Ernie Sims to the Lions. Well, at least he isn't a reciever. Two linebackers and two safeties in the top 10.

It took Arizona about a minute to pick Leinart. Somebody thinks they got a steal. They're probably right.

by admin :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:36pm

They'll grab the linemen next year and in later rounds. This is what Arizona needed so, so badly.

by Shelley (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:37pm

And Leinart gets to keep working on his tan. Awesome.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:38pm

That's the end of the Arizona Cardinals legacy as we know it. They'll be winning 13 games 2-3 years from now.

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:39pm

Shaun Alexander is on the cover of this year's Madden. The Cardinals could take the division.

Pretty boy.

by cds (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:40pm

Cardinals first preseason game is the Waiting Bowl - Roethlisberger vs. Leinart in the desert.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:41pm

Agreed, #181, though I wasn't as down on Warner as a lot of others; it's hard to be that great of a QB when you're getting hit every play. It's potentially a really good fit for Leinart. He has a proven veteran QB in the starting role, he doesn't have to come in and start immediately, and he's got a lot of proven offensive weapons around him.

I don't think he'll do it this upcoming season, but next year? They're going to be a fairly scary team.

by Moon Hippo (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:41pm

178 - i agree. I didnt even want Leinart in the NFC, let alone in our division! Still, their O-line is awful - the hawks front 7 could sack him 20 times next season...

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:41pm

Mr Shush,

I had the same problem. Once I'd logged in for the 112th time I played some video from the nfl.com site. The radio feed worked fine after that.

by admin :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:43pm

Given the imbalance of good quarterbacks between the conferences, the quality of the receivers in Arizona, and the fragility of Kurt Warner, I'm making the call now: Matt Leinart will make the 2007 Pro Bowl. There's a chance he will make the 2006 Pro Bowl if Warner breaks early enough.

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:43pm

This from MDS at deadspin.com

"Ernie Sims has had five concussions. Five. And he hasn’t even entered the NFL yet. I hope his agent gets him a big signing bonus and an appointment with a good neurologist."


by Laszlo Panaflex (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:44pm


Something is seriously amiss in the universe: Bill Bidwell and associates have made a series of good decisions.

Oh, man, I'm afraid. Bad afraid.

Gotta go hide under the bed now.

by joe (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:45pm

i think the cowboys should trade up for either ngata or bunkley...considering that one of them will now probably slip into the teens, it shdnt be too expensive. they have a severe need at DT.

by Nate (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:46pm

James, London - You're 17 posts late on the Sims/Detroit concussion joke...

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:46pm

A Denver trade? WTF?

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:47pm

The Broncos move to 11? Maybe Cutler, then?

by Scott de B. (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:47pm

James, London - You’re 17 posts late on the Sims/Detroit concussion joke

It's the time difference.

by mattman (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:47pm

All along I've wanted the Eagles to take one of Winston Justice, Broderick Bunkley, or Haloti Ngata. Andy Reid loves to take lineman in the 1st round. In the words of Morrissey, 'Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want'.

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:48pm

1st Trade. Broncos trade with St Louis to pick Jay Cutler. Is Cutler value this high?

by zip (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:48pm

Heh... Jets fans gotta love that one.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:48pm

What odds can I get on Warner picking up an injury in the second game of the season and the Cardinals going 15-1?

Broncos trade up and grab...Jay Cutler?
WTF? Don't the Broncos *have* a Quaterback?

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:49pm

Jay Cutler at 11. Not a surprise.

Jay Cutler to the Broncos? That's really odd to me. I didn't think they'd draft a RB given their past and their system, but I was expecting someone on D. Huh.

Ngata to Cleveland is my bet. And it's a really good steal.

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:49pm

I don't understand this from the Broncos standpoint.

As a Jets fan, I hate this tremendously

by Crushinator (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:49pm



by Rocco (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:49pm

I'm surprised- I thought the Broncos would get a receiver who could put them over the top this season. Cutler's a future pick, which is fine, but I think they're close enough that they should be thinking for the present.

by Jake Plummer\'s Beard (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:50pm

You'll never unseat us, Jay Cutler.

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:51pm

Plummer turns 32 this year. He won't be around for ever. Cutler, meanwhile, has a lot of potential but is not ready to start immediately.

by HLF (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:51pm

James, you have no idea what it's been like being a Lions fan since MM was given the keys.

Being an Lions fan has always been sort of ridiculous, but MM has taken it to unfathomable extremes. To make a bad analogy, it's like living for 20+ years with a fat, lazy, loud, ungrateful wife, justifying it to yourself by saying you love(d) her, and then to find out she's been cheating on you all that time. With your brother. And your father. And your sister. And she spent all your money on shoes. (sigh).

by CAW (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:51pm

What are the terms of the Denver Trade, I'm stuck in the library and can't watch live TV

by Will Allen (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:51pm

Jake Plummer is having a good day. What's the over/under on Broncos fans chanting "WE WANT CUTLER! WE WANT CUTLER!"? I'd say mid-October.

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:51pm

It was the Rams 13th pick for the Broncos 15th pick and 68th pick (early 3rd round).

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:52pm

15th and 68th for Jay Cutler? I think the Broncos overpaid.

by CAW (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:55pm

I don't think the Broncos overpaid, they were probably bidding against Minnesota moving up to get him. If they really wanted him they probably had no choice.

Plus, the Broncos have 2 second round picks also.

by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:55pm

Ngata or Lawson to Cleveland.

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:55pm

Great trade for the Rams. Good for them.

Browns take one of the big DT's for sure.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:56pm

So, what, the Broncos just traded picks they acquired from Arizona and San Francisco to St. Louis? Nice. I've already lost track of all the Denver trades.

That ringing sound you hear is Jake Plummer calling his agent. He cannot like this.

Sirius NFL radio heads back to the draft, playing it in with the Kaiser Chiefs' I Predict A Riot. Do they know something we don't about the 29th pick?

by cds (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:56pm

Whoever gets picked by the Browns better make sure that his health insurance is paid up.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:56pm

It's definitely a good deal for STL; they don't really lose any player that they want by trading down 4 spots, and they get a high 3rd for the privilege of doing what they'd probably do anyway. I was always surprised by the notion that they'd want Cutler given their history of QBs.

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 2:59pm

Cheers James, but it's still not working, so I think I'll just stick with Sirius. Screw it.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:00pm

I'm curious to see if Matt Schaub gets moved, either to Minnesota at 17 or to the Jets at 29.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:00pm

Comedy: Butch Davis commenting on the Cleveland Browns' draft needs. Gee Butch, I wonder why that team has so many holes...

by zip (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:01pm

Wow, I guess Baltimore really wants their pick of the DTs...

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:01pm

Good for the Ravens. They had to have that guy.

In other news, whomever the Browns just traded for fell down and broke his leg. And ankle.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:01pm

Heh. Ngata to the Ravens. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. It's a good fit for 'em, though I'm surprised that Cleveland made the trade.

Ray Lewis has some draft day clout.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:02pm

Ravens swap with the Browns to get Haloti Ngata. An actually uncontroversial pick, depending on what they paid for it.

by cds (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:02pm

You know, I had just about put the Oregon uniforms out of my mind. Now I'm seeing them in hi-def. Not a good way to wake up.

by Stiller Fan in Cle (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:03pm

Anyone think it's funny that a division rival would let the Ravens get the guy they want? Especially when it's just one slot? They obviously WANT that one guy. I say take him, help your team, and screw the Ravens...

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:03pm

The Browns better have got good value for that trade, otherwise it's insane. 3-4s benefit so much from a stud NT (see the REAL superbowl MVP) and those guys don't come along too often. Ray-Ray's got to be happy, though.

by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:04pm

Philly is going to get a nice defensive lineman.... dang...

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:04pm

Can Ray Lewis be a bigger asshole? I am the best player in this game...as long as you have two of the best DT in front of me.

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:05pm

ESPN Radio reports Cleveland gains pick 181.

by Stiller Fan in Cle (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:06pm

A 6th rounder to let the Ravens get the guy they want? Not to mention the Browns could use some line help...

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:06pm

Hmm. A 6th round pick to lose Ngata? That doesn't seem like that valuable to me. Unless Cleveland didn't think he was that great.

by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:06pm

Did the Broncos effectively trade Jason Campbell for Jay Cutler? Could be interesting to see how that one turns out.

by someone (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:07pm

a sixth round pick? can that be right?

by Justus (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:07pm

#204 - Maybe the Broncos have realized that virtually no receivers make an impact in their first season so drafting a receiver to put them over the top this year would be a waste of money.

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:07pm

This just in; Cleveland is dumb.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:07pm

So the Browns help out the Ravens and get a whole 7th round pick, too? Whoo-bloody-hoo.

by Karl Cuba (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:08pm

Does anyone know where I can find a webpage with all the details of trades?

by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:08pm

Sounds like ESPN radio is wrong.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:08pm

Add me to the list of people who think the Browns did OK with that trade. Cleveland, presumably, didn't want Ngata.

Sirius suggesting that the Browns might trade down again. Could be fun.

by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:09pm

Awesome analysis from Mark Schlereth.

Criticizing Haloti Ngata for not being enough of an impact player... the first play Schlereth breaks down to prove this point?

A play where Ngata is being double teamed by USC's offensive line while a middle linebacker from Oregon steps up into the hole created by Ngata drawing the double team and stuffs Reggie Bush for no gain.

Thats what NGatas supposed to do my friends.

by Karl Cuba (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:10pm

Just found one on NFL website

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:10pm

Karl Cuba, http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/trades

NFL.com confirms. So two trades so far:
Denver trading the #15 and #68 picks to St Louis to get the #11.
And Baltimore trading the #13 and #181 to Cleveland for the #12.

by Stiller Fan in Cle (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:12pm

If Cleveland wasn't going to take the trade, I guess they did get a 6th for free. Still, it somehow feels kinda dirty...

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:12pm

What do the Browns save in slot money by not taking a guy that would help them and helping out a divisional rival...unless they really think Ngata is a bum. Oh well. Don't the Browns need a decent DL?

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:12pm

Wait, is it the 6th or the 3rd? Sirius just reported a 3rd. 3rd I can understand. 6th is insane, unless the Browns just don't think he's any good.

by someone (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:12pm

re.240 Why not acquaint yourself with the concept of a draft value chart.

by Stiller Fan in Cle (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:12pm

ack, I meant take Ngata

by BHW (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:12pm

As a Bronco fan, I'm pretty stoked about the Cutler pick. He seems like a guy Shanahan can develop, and Jake still has a couple years in front of him to let that happen.

I think Leinart is being highly overrated in this thread. He might be decent, but his arm strength isn't that great, he's not very mobile, and he benefitted from one of the top lines and supporting casts in the game. And, as mentioned above, in his ESPN columns he comes across as a moron. He's going to adapt to a game where some of the best athletes are on defense, which he hasn't really had to yet, and to a game where he's gonna get knocked down ten times a game. This guy does not just step into the pros and dominate.

by Will Allen (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:15pm

I didn't see Ngata a ton, but I saw enough of him to think he was a little overrated. I remember a when Minnesota's Greg Eslinger gave away sixty pounds and held his own against him in a bowl game, although that was couple years ago.

by Nate (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:15pm

247 - Would you rather Cleveland have taken Wimbley at 12, and get nothing? Who cares about the value chart?

by Matthew Furtek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:17pm

So is Bunkly is worth being afraid of? Redskin fans are acting like he's going to be blowing up our lines.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:18pm

Re 249: Matt Leinart has Kurt Warner's entire skill set and he has arguably the best offensive skill position players in the league around him. He's going to be productive immediately.

The arm strength is really not going to be an issue. Larry and Anquan are going to be open and Leinart is going to find them.

by someone (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:18pm

re. 251, I guess there's nothing the Browns shouldn't have accepted for that pick then, using your logic and that of 240. A bag of onion chips perhaps under your logic?

They accepted less than value for the pick. Bottom line.

I think you'll find a lot of NFL teams care about value charts.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:18pm

Camerion Wimbley - a DE/OLB from Free Shoes University. A nice pickup for the Brownies. Maybe they hoodwinked the Ravens for the pick.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:19pm

252 - Apparently he could bench press the entire Redskin line, but that's only if they lie down and allow themselves to be stacked on one another, which isn't a conventional pass-blocking scheme.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:21pm

256 - best line of the thread so far. Well done.

254 - getting given something for doing what you were going to do anyway is always a good deal.

by Nate (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:21pm

254 - Which, as a Browns fan, would rather have?
1) Browns get Wimbley, Ravens get Ngata and pick #181
2) Browns get Wimbley and pick #181, Ravens get Ngata?

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:23pm

I say they were lucky to get anything on a bluff like that.

by someone (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:25pm


What you get for something depends on negotiating skill and leverage.

Get a reputation as someone who takes less than market value, and watch it bite you later.

They got less than a universally accepted and standard value indicator suggests they should have.

But hey, if you think it's a good deal, you're entitled to your opinion. That just means you're wrong.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:26pm

13 picks, no CB, no WR. Crazy year.

by Kaveman (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:26pm

I was very surprised at the Broncos' pick. But, it is a typical Mike Shanahan move: risky, but with great upside if it pans out. Most analyses of Cutler seem to agree that he has developed very well over his college career, and almost all his minuses are laid on his footwork; something that should be relatively easy to fix with good coaching (as opposed to say, throwing motion).

Don't they need a receiver? Yes, but I understand that neither Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson were rated as high as any of the first round receivers from last year's draft. Perhaps they expect to beat the Dolphins for Walker. And are hoping that David Terrell will return to life in the mountain air.

Defensive end? They think that Kenard Lang and Corey Jackson are the answer?

I don't know. I can see how this pick makes sense to the Broncos' organization; they are betting on the development of talent already on the roster and they know well how much impact a great QB can have. But I do hope this is the last gamble Shanahan takes today.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:27pm

Make that 14.

by Derek (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:27pm

Bunkley, Patterson, Howard, and Kearse...I like it.

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:27pm

Banks called it again; aside from Buffalo's odd pick, he had Wimbley going to the Browns and the Ravens going with a DT. Turned out they wanted to get the best DT. So it might've been that the Browns essentially got a free 6th pick.

I don't like Wimbley that much, but it's arguably a better fit than Ngata.

And yeah, Schlereth's coverage of Ngata bugged. "He didn't explode!" as he takes two blockers on and basically stops the play. Sorry, dude; the guy isn't going to take plays off in the NFL.

Buckley to the Eagles is good times. Boy, I bet the Eagles are happy. A lot of teams are, thanks to the inanity of Buffalo.

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:27pm

FSU takes the lead with 3 draft picks so far.

by someone (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:27pm


If you can swing a good deal and exercise negotiation skil, it doesn't have to come down to those two options. The number of options is potentially infinite - not two.

by Digit (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:28pm

re: 260

What? I've seen a similar trade-up like this a couple years ago- New England traded a sixth rounder to move up one spot with Chicago to take Ty Warren, from 14 to 13. Seems like a sixth rounder is about the price to move up one spot in the middle of the first round, based on precedent.

I don't really see how Cleveland got swindled to get an extra pick along with the guy they likely were taking anyway.

by Zac (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:31pm

There's your CB, TomC.

by Adam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:31pm

Tye Hill to the Rams.

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:32pm

SEC...all that talent, and a Vandy guy is the first player taken from the conference...what odds would you have gotten from Vegas for that....

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:32pm

1st Corner goes @ #15. Any thoughts on who the 'Fins take?

by lagfish (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:34pm

I say justice.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:34pm

Come on, Fish. Williams or Cromartie. Please.

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:35pm

Wow.....Mel doesn't care much for Jimmy Williams does he?

by BHW (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:35pm

Arizona has a couple of good WR receivers, but let's not get carried away. Fitzgerald and Boldin ranked 4th and 16th in DPAR last season, respectively, but 23rd and 40th in DVOA. They put up big numbers because they were always passing -- 66.5% of their plays last year were pass plays.

Now, the good money is for these two guys to keep developing and continue their path toward being top receivers. I'm not saying Leinart's can't grow with them; I'm just saying all of this talk of him stepping in immediately and leading them to glory strikes me as far-fetched.

by Zach (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:35pm

268: The question is not whether you should take a free pick, but whether it is worth a 6th rounder to allow your division rival to get the guy they really want. CHI and NE don't play each other twice a year.

If I was the Cleveland GM I would have taken Ngata, because of the added value of a.) taking away the guy BAL wants and b.) making their star defensive player mad and possibly get him out of town.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:36pm

What's the over/under on the first reciever in this draft, then? 17?

by Andy (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:36pm

Justice prevails....Miami

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:36pm

Miami might take an RB here; I know that Saban likes having the RB-by-committee deal going on. Justice would be a good pick too. They don't have huge needs elsewhere, do they? Who is BPA right now?

by johonny (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:37pm

Please Justice

by lagfish (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:37pm

Watch NFL network. Moyak is better. He knows his hip torque.

by Will Allen (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:38pm

Given what veteran cbs get in the free agent market, even guys who have not as of yet been upper-echelon players (look at what Brian Williams got from the Jaguars), getting a cb where the Rams did seems very efficient, if he ends up being a decent first-year contributor.

by Sean (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:39pm

Re 276: It doesn't have to be immediate, but it's simply a matter of time until Arizona is putting up a string of winning seasons. It's coming. (And they've had three strong drafts in a row, so it's coming sooner than people might think.)

by Crushinator (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:39pm

I think the Browns making the trade was a good idea if they didn't want Ngata. It's the exact same thing I criticized the Texans for - If the Saints had offered the Texans a 6th rounnd to move up that one spot and pick Bush and the Texans still got Williams, why not?

The decision makes sense on two levels for the Browns - They're paying less for the player they wanted, and they got an extra pick for the player they wanted anyway.

I still think the Texans dropped the ball - not that I'm saying Mario Williams will be a bad player, but the only way it makes sense for the Texans is if the Saints were absolutely in love with Mario Williams and the Texans knew there was no way they'd get him.

Still, even then, if I were the Texans, I'd have picked Reggie Bush regardless, taken the Jets trade who wanted Bush, snagged Ferguson (or Mario Wiliams if he were still there), use those extra picks reinforcing the D-line and O-line.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:39pm

280 I don't think there's a consensus BPA right now - Justice, Greenway, Lawson, Holmes, Jackson...unless I've completely forgotten somebody, that is.

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:42pm

I have to say I think I'm with someone on this. The Ravens obviously believed the Browns would take Ngata, or they wouldn't have made the trade. I suspect the Browns could have held out for a 5th, at any rate (which is still below Dallas Chart value).

by Trogdor (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:43pm

How long ago did Cleveland trade a 2nd rounder to move up one spot in the 1st? And this year, they get a 6th to move down one spot. They probably should've asked for something more, maybe a 4 or 5, or a 6 and 7 combo. Anyway, I had hoped they went NT, and thought Ngata would be a good choice if he was there, but apparently they weren't high enough on him. I don't like the idea of taking someone you don't want just because a rival does want him. Maybe sign someone to your practice squad, but not with a mid first rounder. Take the guy you want, and get what you can when trading down.

By the way, Donte Whitner???

by James, London (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:45pm

Miami pick Jason Allen. How good is he?

by Kal (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:45pm

Wow. Jason Allen? Is he even the best CB available, much less BPA? I know Saban played against him, but...huh.

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:45pm

I think if you're not worried about the failed test (and that's a big if) White merits consideration with those guys as the BPA at this point.

by Zach (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:46pm

288: It's not just because their division opponent wanted him. CLE needs a DT and DTs are good value picks in the first round. Add that to the fact that you hurt BAL by making the pick and it's worth a lot more than a 6th rounder.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:46pm

Jason Allen. Well, at least a CB for my beloved 'Fins. Until that career ending hip injury and all.

by johonny (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:47pm

So how soon til Sabans back in college?

by Mr Shush (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:47pm

Jason Allen was regarded as a possible top 10 pick pre-injury, I believe. If they're confident he's recovered, the pick makes sense.

by Sam (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:49pm

I think somebody must have been offering the Browns a lower pick.

by TomC (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:49pm

Dr. Z called Allen to the Fish.

by Ilanin (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:49pm

Ladies and Gentlemen, the run on DBs has begun. I kind of regard all of the mid-to-late first round corners as interchangable, so I should probably avoid commenting on the next few picks.

by Tri Shanku (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:50pm

Honestly, Levy-Jauron team is killing me. Peerless Price.. Donte Whitner.. what next? Not that I know much about Whitner, but at #8??

Oh well. Good that I do not have DirecTV.

Would love to see Cutler in Mile High, and Leinart to Boldin.. and MM out of Detroit. But then, perhaps ol' man Ralphie Wilson would hire him to be the draft guru in Buffalo.

by Holloway (not verified) :: Sat, 04/29/2006 - 3:50pm

8 minutes until the Vikings draft Captain Steubing.

Geeze, I apologize in advance for that.