Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 13 Open Game Discussion

Week 13 kicks off with Washington playing Dallas tonight in the "Winner Gets Back to .500" Bowl. Big Sunday games include Vikings at Falcons, Patriots at Bills, Panthers at Saints, and the night game between Philadelphia and Seattle. The Monday nighter pits Pittsburgh against Cincinnati. Use this game to discuss them all!


by Raiderjoe :: Thu, 11/30/2017 - 9:16pm

pcik idn is

Squirrels 23, cowbnouys 20

by Raiderjoe :: Fri, 12/01/2017 - 1:21am

terrible selection

if REdskins really changed name to Squirrels, tema record would be at least 7-5 now. it is science. also, team would have much greater looking logo

by Otis Taylor89 :: Fri, 12/01/2017 - 10:40am

Grey Squirrels, Brown Squirrels or Black Squirrels?
Not sure any of them are badass, unless fighting over another squirrel over acorns or they are in heat.

by serutan :: Fri, 12/01/2017 - 2:24pm

Now if they were Rocket J. Squirrels...
Was wr

by Raiderjoe :: Fri, 12/01/2017 - 4:13pm

brown or grey is fine. brown better bebcuase Washington wopudl not have to change unfirom color scheme. logos need not be bad ass. that is problem with many today. seahawks, cards, some others, college teams too altered logos to llok more aggressive. not necessary. new Washington logo would be regal and docile squirrel A look that says to other teams, "yes. we have squirrel on helmet and it iss not even mean looking and we don't care. Come get some"

by RobotBoy :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 6:48pm

Should be 'Flying Squirrels' which are endemic to Virginia. The logo of the squirrel gliding would strike dismay into the minds of rivals: 'How can we ever catch them? The mothers can FLY.'

by Hoodie_Sleeves :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 11:41pm

I've mentioned this before - there already is a Flying Squirrels professional team in VA. (Double A baseball)

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 3:59pm

If REdskins really changed name to Squirrels, tema record would be at least 7-5 now. it is science.

This is correct on so many levels: if they change names, that means dan "assmouth" snyder wouldn't own the team, and they would be run like a modern professional sports franchise. 7-5 would have been easily attainable

by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 11/30/2017 - 9:45pm

I wonder who leads the league in INTs that deflected off their receiver's hands

by BJR :: Thu, 11/30/2017 - 10:02pm

That was always Eli wasn't it?

by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 11/30/2017 - 10:33pm

Well this is a real shitshow. It's Washington's unlucky entire season writ small

by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 11/30/2017 - 10:44pm

Wade Phillips won a super bowl with his best pass rusher lining up across from the right tackle, now every defense does that. I wonder what offenses can do to counter that, short of employing two top tier pass blockers.

by jtr :: Fri, 12/01/2017 - 8:30am

The tight end is right there! He doesn't necessarily have to double team the LDE, just getting in a chip before you release into your route can help a lot.

by BJR :: Fri, 12/01/2017 - 12:08am

At what point does Kirk Cousins start prioritizing protecting himself? The season is done, his O-line is an injury-ravaged mess, and there's a hell of a lot of money at stake...

by t.d. :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 1:53pm

This is one of many years lately (probably for about the last decade) where I've felt the NFC is clearly superior, and yet where I'll feel like the AFC has a great shot in the Super Bowl, probably if it's either the Pats or Steelers (pats had no business winning last year, except that Brady and Belicheck were so relentlessly unwilling to let them lose, and 2014 was similar- in both cases, the Pats began the game as the inferior team, but in-game injuries made up for it, Mack last year and Sherman and Thomas three years ago) It's also a case where the NFC has about six championship-caliber teams, and the AFC has one-plus, but as the past couple of years have shown, it only takes one. Either way,the NFC is much more enjoyable for its diversity, but we're all lucky to be watching Brady and Belicheck, two unquestioned masters, at the top of their craft. It's a "tell your grandkids about it" kind of thing

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:26pm

The Pats were not the "inferior" team last year. They were a team that made a few early mistakes but were able to make a comeback thanks in great part to superior conditioning.

The NFC has far more depth but when it comes to the Super Bowl, that's the opposite of what you want if you want your conference winner to win the Super Bowl.

As for the AFC, while it looks like a two-team race, I wouldn't sleep on the Chiefs quite yet.

by Steve B :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:40pm

Maybe Jacksonville, too

by vrao81 :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 6:13pm

Uh Chiefs just lost their 6th of the last 7 games, and are in danger of missing the playoffs.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 9:30pm

Apparently I put the whammy on them today!

Ye gods that ending was awful!

Seriously, they have the talent to play with anybody, as evidenced by the fact that they own wins over both the Eagles and the Pats. But they appear to be in some kind of giant funk.

The "don't sleep on them" means that they could get things righted quickly and then become a team that could beat anybody.

But - yikes! That was just an awful, awful loss today. Right now the Chargers look like the team that will win the AFC West. I'd love to hear an explanation how the Chiefs went from 5-0 and consensus "best team in the NFL" to "losing 6 out of 7". The first three losses were understandable: Steelers are a good team and were psyched to take down the Chiefs. Oakland is a tough divisional rival they played on the road. Cowboys were still at full strength and playing at home.

But since then...losses to Giants, Bills, and Jets? Blecch.

All four of their remaining games are winnable. At least they were a month ago...

by jonsilver :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 2:21am

I think the Chiefs are the ones doing the sleeping...with the fishes... "Oh, Chiefs, won't see them no more..." or: (Na na, Hey Hey) Kiss them goodbye...

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:34pm

While I think the Falcons actually played better in the game itself last Super Bowl, and deserved to win if you solely consider those 60+ minutes, I don't think they were genuinely the better team. The Patriots were the superior overall team and had the better season. After all, they were higher in DVOA and the Vegas favorites going into the game. The Cowboys were probably the best NFC team last season, not Atlanta.

by t.d. :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:12pm

falcons had a historically great offense according to all the #s (til Mack got hurt). in both cases, tho, belicheck and brady kept the pressure up til even great coaches (which i think shanny jr will prove to be, and carroll has already proven himself to be) made uncharacteristic blunders (said to my dad when falcs went up 28-3 they needed 3 more points, even if it seemed counterintuitive, and they gacked the first down from the pats 25ish late in the game when three runs into the line for no gain wins it). don't think dvoa truly adequately adjusts for competition level in a sport with at most 20 data points, and the falcs defense was better than its dvoa until the pats utterly exhausted them- like i said, phenomenal coaching and will not to lose made the difference, and really don't think any team historically besides last year's pats (with brady in god mode with 15 years of experience at this as well as a couple crushing SB losses) pulls that comeback off. ymmv.

by RobotBoy :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 7:43pm

'Will not to lose' is really a vague claim in a league made of remarkably, ruthlessly competitive men (Did the Giants have more 'will not to lose' in 2007?). The Pats fell into that big hole largely because of fumble luck. After that, their gameplan of wearing out the quicker but smaller Falcons' D paid off.

by t.d. :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 4:07am

They won by running a hurry up that allowed them to have an extraordinary # of plays and drives (which is why they won despite being crushed in voa- doesn't matter if you aren't all that efficient on drives if you can extend the game long enough that you can eventually can score enough to.extend the game)Most teams in that situation (when their win probability was approaching zero and they hadn't had success through almost three full quarters) may say the right things about still believing in their chances and continuing to push as hard as they can, but, having seen the Super Bowls of the eighties and early nineties, I can tell you, most teams just quit, even in the super bowl. The pats didn't, and that's a credit to belicheck and Brady. The poster above who says it was part of the plan to rely on conditioning to eventually wear the falcons out is.either kidding themselves or.foolish- if that was the plan, it was a terrible.one- they prob overcame the lowest win probability stacked against them in history to win, and,.like.i said,.w/o.mack's injury it.never happens. To think they were anything but extremely lucky and extremely good.is ridiculous. Said it before, but last year's pats.(and probably this year's too) are among the least impressive 14-2 teams I've ever seen, and.i won't be surprised to see.them suck their way to another championship (assuming Brady's.achilles holds.up). (and if it was just fumble luck that'd be reflected in the voa by which they got out played)

by joe football :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:02pm

Time for another season of FO slack gameday chat! For people who are already in, just go to https://kotakuites.slack.com/messages/fo/details/. For anyone that wants to join a star-studded cast of their favorite FO posters for gameday chat, just email me at gamadict@gmail.com and you will receive an invite

by Steve B :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:13pm

Tyrone Taylor showing again why he was benched a couple weeks ago.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:15pm

Pats have their worst defensive series in at least a month, and Tyrod bails them out by throwing to a wide-open Eric Lee.

by BJR :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:28pm

Atlanta just completely blew a coverage, Keenum missed the easy TD to Thielen

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:32pm

You don't see too many punters these days go for the corner just before the end zone. The Vikings punter (Quigley, I think) just hit a beauty. Out of bounds at about the 2 yard line.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:40pm

Buffalo just challenged a play arguing that Brady was "down by contact" when he clearly tripped over a teammate.

Worst. Challenge. Ever.

Did they think they could get Intentional Grounding called via review?

by Bright Blue Shorts :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 2:44pm

There are times when hyperbole is used to describe stuff like "worst challenge ever" but that really was as bad as they come.

I don't know whether it gets Keep Choppin Wood or Confusing Coaching award this week

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 3:08pm

Yeah, I don't toss around superlatives lightly.

by Steve B :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 3:01pm

And now Taylor misses an easy TD throw

by Bright Blue Shorts :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 3:04pm

Are you referring to Joe Webb's overthrow at the NE9?

by Steve B :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 3:13pm

Taylor leave the game? I've been flipping back and fourth and went back to NE-Buf right before the overthrow.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 3:37pm

Webb was in for a series. According to the coach, it was a planned package they ran for him. He was v. effective as a runner, but that pass in particular was poor.

Poor QB play is really holding the Bills back today.


by Will Allen :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:21pm

We really need shah8 to return to FO, to inform us again that Joe Webb is The Future of Football.

by Jerry :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 2:43am


by Will Allen :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 8:32am

On the other hand, if you had told me 5 years ago that Webber would still be on an NFL roster at the end of the 2017 season, I would have thought you were nuts. He's managed to hang around and earn 5.5 million bucks, which beats the likely alternatives.

by morganja :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 9:52am

That's not fair. For all we know he is forgoing an epic career in opera.

by Will Allen :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 11:18am

Joe's career in opera would entail him switching back and forth as 2nd understudy tenor or baritone 5 times in 7 years.

by Jerry :: Tue, 12/05/2017 - 4:28am

shah8 would have a box for all those performances.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 3:43pm

So Andy Reid apparently gave up play calling duties, and the Chiefs have been much improved on offense. Instead it's the defense that's now the problem, as they apparently can't stop Josh McCown, who has lead the Jets to 21 in just the first half. Must be pretty frustrating to be a KC fan right now.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:03pm

What is with these fucking rules for broadcasts? Why is the broncos dolphins shitter on fox? Because of that I can't watch Vikings - Falcons right now.

Why do I even bother trying? I could have done anything besides watching football, and I'm not really even watching football because the product on my tv is such crap (I have den-mia or kc-jets to choose from. WOW EXCITEMENT!). I watched college games yesterday that had better football than this

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:11pm

Jets-Chiefs isn't a particularly bad game though.

by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 6:22pm

You can't get Sunday Ticket or go tk sports bar?

Chives va Jets game was great

by duh :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:05pm

Man Buffalo has every reason to be torqued about that James White 1st down

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:10pm

Jets open the second half with an 18-play drive taking 9:31 off the clock, though they only get a FG.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:15pm

there are so, so many horrible teams this year that it's statistically unlikely to get a matchup with TWO competent teams playing, almost every game every week has 1 or 2 insultingly bad teams playing

That's what this is, too: in-fucking-sulting. I've already dumped my childhood home/favorite team--which most people don't understand and think I'm an unloyal, bad person for it, but that team was the Redracists so fuck them for judging me--and for a few years I enjoyed just rooting for good football. But where is the good football? Sitting at home with Kaepernick I guess.

I know Kaep wouldn't be a savior for the league if he wrre playing, but he's a symbol of how arrogant the league and the rich people who run are, he's a symbol for every owner who puts his own fragile ego over his team's fans, for every coach who coaches to lose by as little as possible, for every fucking checkdown behind the LOS on 3rd and 12. Fuck you, NFL.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:34pm

With five minutes left, down by five and facing a fourth and short in FG range, the Falcons opt to kick it. Don't think that was the right call at all, and they miss anyway.

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:44pm

You're right. Vikings just marched down the field to run out the clock.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:30pm

That is what a good team does, especially on the road. Get the upper hand, and then choke out the opponent. We will see if they can keep following that blueprint.

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:45pm

Can we all just admit Case Keenum is the best QB on the Vikes roster even when Bradford and Bridgewater are healthy?

by Will Allen :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:32pm

It's certainly hard to imagine either of them playing better, but neither of them have ever played on a roster remotely this good before.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:57pm

Chiefs seem to be finding a new way to lose. Instead of getting ball back down 2 points after a Jets FG, they commit a personal foul, giving Jets a new set of downs. Most Chiefs can hope for is a FG with 2 minutes less left on clock.

I just learned that the long snapper is considered a "defenseless player" and defense isn't allowed to charge into him. But Chiefs on special teams should know that already.

I would be amused to see the Jets cough up the ball here.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 4:59pm

And the Chiefs just committed holding on 3rd down to give the Jets yet another set of downs.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:07pm

And the ludicrous hijinks continue! On the two-point conversion there's a holding call. In frustration Peters throws the flag itself into the stands. LOL.

by AwesomeDan :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:01pm

Anyone still claiming Tyrod Taylor is a viable starting QB?

by Bright Blue Shorts :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:06pm

Are you trying to make a joke about his knee injury?

by GwillyGecko :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:23pm

haha. hehe. and i thought my jokes were bad.

i know a shitty qb when i see one. and tyrod sucks.

by AwesomeDan :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:32pm


by GwillyGecko :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:36pm

just another bills fan tired of yet another dismal day by tyrod, in a long string of such days!

blueshorts, if you actually watched buffalo bills games instead of reading aaron schatz's "hot (diarrhea) takes" youd know that tyrod sucks!!

by Hoodie_Sleeves :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:42pm

Tyrod isn't great, but this is a much closer game if his receivers can actually catch.

There's a whole lot of blame to go around on that offense.

by GwillyGecko :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:49pm

not gonna dispute that theres plenty of blame to go around, but tyrod must go!!

by sbond101 :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 7:31pm

That's pretty much how I feel about this Bills team. It's a 7-9 team that had some good fortune early in the year, has a QB that can be above average against teams that don't seem to realize that playing contain with the line-backers in zone is the way to play them. The LB's in zone will prevent him making too many big plays with his legs. Tyrod has clear limitations, that a number of teams/coaches don't seem to take advantage of. On the other side of the ball there defense is talented & fundamentally sound, but not great.

The difficult part about this situation is if they had built around tyrod rather than sent all the players that play "his way" packing, they probably make the playoffs this year, and probably next year as well (especially if they didn't have to play BB twice a year to be exposed). But they probably never win either the AFC east, or a championship without blowing this up and starting over for the post-Brady era.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 9:38pm

The talent on the team is LeSean McCoy. With merely average QB play they should be a playoff team. All three QBs for Buffalo played today, and, surprisingly, the best of the three was Peterman. I know Tyrod was injured early, but his pass to Eric Lee was a mental error that was not caused by his injury.

They also really, really need to improve their run defense. Romo kept hyping the idea that the Bills were intentionally slowing down the game. But the Pats were quite happy to slow down the game. Their RB corps is incredibly deep this season.

by BJR :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:05pm

Marcus Peters just did a Bart Scott!

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:06pm

Now the Chiefs commit a penalty on the 2-point conversion.

And somebody (Marcus Peters, I think) threw an officials' flag into the stands.

Thanks for switching me away from the Pats' game, CBS. I understand the Pats' game was essentially over, but how do I unsee this disgrace?

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:11pm

Wow, Marcus Peters apparently just decided to leave the field. I figured he was ejected, but no.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:33pm

The Chiefs lose another, but the offense was definitely not the issue in this one. Rather it was the defense, which was completely dominated by the Jets. NY had nine drives, none starting in better field position than their own 32, but scored seven times, while holding the ball for nearly 43 minutes, with no turnovers. I don't know how far back you would have to go to find the last time NYJ performed that well on offense. Could be years and years.
Actually the KC offense was completely absurd too, since they averaged 10.3 yards per play. How often does a team do that and lose?

by travesty :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:38pm

Gronk's got to get a suspension for that, doesn't he?

by Cheesehead_Canuck :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 5:48pm

I’m going to say no.

by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 7:33pm

It's not like he murdered a guy.

by sbond101 :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 8:01pm

I think it's just a fine; but it's hard to say. I also think the group of refs involved should take a long, unpaid vacation for losing control of that game in the last 5 minutes. The Gronk play was really dirty, and so was the Amendola shot on the same play, but all this came out of a really chippy game and one where guys were holding and late-shotting all day long without flags - a boil-over seemed inevitable.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 9:43pm

The officials were letting the Bills hold Gronk all day long, and they flagged him for OPI on a play where there was minor contact. The play that triggered his fit of rage featured White holding him most of his route, and then pushing off to make a pick. It was a blatant DPI, but they didn't flag it. I cannot imagine nobody saw it. It felt like this group of officials was intent on using their power to hurt his ability to play normally.

I figure it will be a suspension. A forearm shiv to the head is usually treated the same as a punch. If they'd ejected him at the time, there probably would not be anything further but a fine. But since they didn't...?

Rodney Harrison called it a dirty hit on the pregame show tonight. Had to collect my jaw off the floor at that tidbit. Tip for NBC: don't ask Rodney's opinion about dirty play. Ever.

by mathesond :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 10:06pm

I would think few people know more about dirty play than Harrison.

by sbond101 :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 10:27pm

It's interesting - one of the things that sets the 14-17 Pat's apart from the 09-14 iterations is the return of the "dirty"/" fight for each other"/"looking for contact" that characterized the 01-05 teams. Amendola, Edelman and Gronk play offense as close to the limit of physicality as Law and Harrison did (obviously it's different on the other side of the ball). Harrison should know better than anyone the benefits of crossing the line sometimes, even if it costs a penalty/fine. Not sure he could share an analysis on that axis on TV though.

by sbond101 :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 10:34pm

For the record I think everyone knows it was a dirty play (possibly suspension worthy). The question is does it serve a purpose, the way a lot of "extra-legal" plays at or over the edge of the rules do. Based on the illegal Amendola block off the play I suspect this was an over the line "push back" in a situation where everyone knew the penalty didn't matter. Knowing what a player like Harrison actually thinks of that would be interesting - though I guess we won't ever get that on TV.

by morganja :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 3:12am

Gronk commits offensive pass interference just about every single play. As he was on that play. Patriot fans...it's not defensive holding when the receiver deliberately runs into the defender ten yards off the line and then extends his arms pushing the defender away during his break.
Gronk is seriously the last person on the planet earth who should ever have anything to say about 'too much contact' on a route, let alone intentionally trying to injure a player because of contact during a route.
This is what they should do with Gronkowski. After his four game suspension, have a ref call him for OPI every single time he runs into a defender or pushes off. Every single time. Rather than once or twice and then letting him get away with it every single play.

by jtr :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 8:19pm

If AJ Green didn't get suspended for his chokeslam a few weeks ago I don't see how this one could be a suspension. Also, it looked like Gronk was mad that Tre White pushed off, but Gronk pushed off earlier in the route. He pushes off at the stem of almost every route.

by HPaddict :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 12:04am

I found the Gronk play dirtier than Green's. Ramsay had just finished pushing Green to begin a semi-standard post-play altercation and Green escalated. The escalation was considerably above normal but Ramsay was generally aware that something was going on.

In contrast, White had literally no idea that an altercation had begun. The provocation of White was fairly standard in-play behavior. Potentially illegal, though I don't think DPI would be a good call, but part of standard play.

Definitely agree that Gronk pushed off on the break.

by Raiderjoe :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 12:10am

C'mon notjinf to debate here. D. Trevathan suspended for hit during real football aciton. Gronkowski terrible cheap shot to head like at sideline when play was already over

by HPaddict :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 12:30am

Wasn't comparing Gronk to Trevathan but to Green; I never really found Trevathan's play particularly dirty because the play was still live.

But I've seen plenty of references to Green.

by Steve B :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 8:59pm

He should

by roguerouge :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 12:35am

Yeah, they should do the two game suspension, reduce to one game on appeal dance.

by BJR :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 6:09pm

Did the Giants really just take a timeout with 4 seconds left of the first quarter, and 20 seconds on the play-clock?

by vrao81 :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 6:22pm

McAdoo is trying to get himself fired to end the pain.

by oaktoon :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 6:43pm

Running the Table, Volume II.

Packers aren't very good. They didn't look very good at 4-6 last year, either. If they beat Cleveland, they are 7-6 with Rodgers due to return for the final trio of games at CAR, home to MINN, at DET.

If they were to win them all and finish 10-6, becomes quite likely that they make playoffs if NO can win this game vs CAR.

Why? Lions have 6 losses already-- the best they could finish would be 9-7 because of the loss to GB.

Cowboys have 6 losses already-- including 1 to GB, so they lose the tiebreaker.

Panthers would be 8-4. If they lost any one of their games home to MINN, home to TB or away to ATL, as well as home to GB, they finish 10-6 and Packers have tiebreaker over them.

Falcons are 7-5 with the tiebreaker over GB. they play Saints twice and Carolina. So they could finish 10-6 and beat out the Packers... but if they lose twice to Saints, they are out.. and if they lose once to NO and to CAR, they are out. CAR would have to beat Vikings then to beat Packers.

And finally SEA at 7-4-- Packers already have tiebreaker--they play Eagles, away to JACK, Rams, and away to Cowboys. Could they win 3 of those 4 and finish 11-5? Yes. Will they? Probably not. if they do where would Rams finish, assuming a loss to Seattle. They also play PHILA, and away to TENN-- so they could finish 10-6 and I frankly don't know how tiebreakers would determine.

Ordinarily, no chance. With Rodgers, you can never say never.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 6:44pm

Matt Kalil makes me think once again that being a high 1st round draft pick can result in being overpaid for an entire career, assuming the player isn't a complete bust, or not an elite performer.

by justanothersteve :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 10:50am

I noticed that with AJ Hawk when he was a Packer. He was an average LB, but he was paid like an all-Pro for his second contract in part because he was a #5 overall pick. Some players have unusually well-paid second (and even third) contracts for reasons unknown, and initial draft position seems to be a factor irrelevant of their actual production.

by morganja :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 7:15pm

Atrocious officiating in New Orleans. The non-neutral line infraction is just inexplicable.

by morganja :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 8:20pm

Just saw the Gronkowski play. There has got to be a serious penalty for that. Multi-game suspension and a huge fine at least. That has got to be the dirtiest play I have seen in years.

by jtr :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 9:15am

It absolutely SHOULD be a suspension, I just don't know if it actually WILL be. I thought AJ Green was a 100% no-brainer suspension, and the NFL only fined him $42K for that, which is about 20% of one game check for him. So I don't really have any trust in the NFL to suspend players even when they really obviously need to be suspended.

by Cheesehead_Canuck :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 8:22pm

Packers running the table against 3 teams above them in the standings is possible (with Rodgers). It’s mind-blowing how much better the team is with him playing. Unfortunately 10 wins could still miss out in this year’s NFC. It will depend on who they end up tied with (and actually running the table)

by Steve B :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 8:38pm

So Geno Smith was...okay, all things considered. Probably deserves to start again next week vs. Dallas

by Raiderfan :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 10:34pm

SEA looking great, or else PHIL (who I have not seen) are really overrated. SEA D is clearly more than just the LofB, and it is a crime Wenz is being talked about as MVP front runner with no one talking about Wilson.

by billsfan :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 11:19pm

Please use the template next time.

by RickD :: Sun, 12/03/2017 - 11:43pm


Also, the template is for people complaining about DVOA scores. From the years of reading raiderjoe's comments here, it's unclear that he even knows that this site is centered around the DVOA rating system. He just shares his eyeball-generated opinions.

Finally, it's pretty much obligatory here to complain that the Eagles are overrated by DVOA.

by Jerry :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 2:52am

That was Raiderfan, not Raiderjoe.

by Raiderjoe :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 12:07am

Sehaks winning 24-10 btu if palsy Eags in playogfs game will be in Philadelphia. Very different thing. Seattle won't win there in playoffs.

by Ian Chapman :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 12:39am

So does that Philly vs Seattle game make "Any Given Sunday"? I think it should. Great game. Personally I thought that the Eagles were due for a loss and there were a bit overrated (which is not to say they aren't very good), and Century Link in prime-time is a VERY tough place to win on the road.


by Steve B :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 1:26am

Not a good night for Pederson

by drillz :: Mon, 12/04/2017 - 10:00pm

So, Jon Gruden is going to exclude the adversity Mike Tomlin had to deal with with Ben Roethlisberger?

by Steve B :: Tue, 12/05/2017 - 12:12am

Is Gruden drunk?

by Steve B :: Tue, 12/05/2017 - 12:28am

Yeah, boo hoo hoo, poor Burfict. He's such a good guy.