Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 9 Open Game Discussion

The post-Deshaun Watson section of the 2017 season begins tonight with the Buffalo Bills and new toy Kelvin Benjamin taking on the Jets and old man Josh McCown. Action continues through Sunday night as the Raiders and Dolphins try to save their seasons, and finishes on Monday as the Lions and Packers battle for second place behind Minnesota. Use this thread to discuss all the action.


by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 8:38pm

Wait so now TNF is *not* on TV? This is so confusing. How is this inconsistent on again/off again broadcast schedule a good idea from ANY theoretical perspective? Soo stupid, so frustrating. I actually thought this would be a good game, but apparently no one is allowed to see it.

by Cythammer :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 8:52pm

I mean, it is on TV, just NFL Network. If I remember correctly, this is actually the only Thursday game all year that is solely on NFL Network and not NBC or CBS.

Anyway, the DVOA playoff odds already have the Bills as heavy favorites to make the playoffs. If they can avoid slipping up today they should definitely be on their way, especially since the wildcard race doesn't look particularly competitive this year.

by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 9:15pm

I can't even think of a single friend who gets the NFL network right now. And I don't drink so I don't like bars (since I USED to drink, heavily). Have you ever heard of a coffee shop that has NFL Network? That would work for me.

It's the inconsistency that really bothers me. I tend to forget that there's even a game on Thursdays at all, but after missing Pats/Bucs bc I forgot I've been trying to get in the habit, and when I finally do, they go changing the rules on me? Seriously, fuck them. I realize that this isn't a surprise and I COULD have gone and memorized which Thurs games I can watch and which I can't, but watching football shouldn't require cramming like it's a high school exam! It's just stupid in every way.

by deus01 :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 9:32pm

I don't have cable so I signed up for Sling to watch football games. It has the local networks, ESPN, NFLN and redzone. The only downside is that because Amazon bought the streaming rights for the other Thursday games you can't watch them on sling and have to use Prime Video (which I also happen to have). I agree it's really stupid and given that the NFL is having issues with declining viewership maybe they'll figure out how to make it easier to actually watch their games.

I also highly recommend 506sports.com to see what networks and areas games are on.

by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 10:33pm

Oh, I check 506 weekly, I love looking at their broadcast maps. But I usually don't check before Saturday because tv stations are constantly changing their minds, and it's not terribly accurate before then. I've never heard of this sling you speak of, I wonder if it meets my own personal definition of "affordable"

by deus01 :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 10:46pm

I think I'm paying $50/month to get everything. If you don't care about ESPN you can save $15/month. You can also cancel your service online at anytime so it's not difficult to turn it off once the season is over.

by Theo :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 12:10am

The television idea is becoming outdated very quickly.
I live in Europe so it's either paying premium for NFL Ticket, going to a sportsbar or looking up a stream and watch HD for nothing.
Guess how I watch the NFL.
If the NFL made a free-to-watch youtube channel where you can watch and re-watch games, they'd make billions on advertisement and target viewers world wide.
But they are still in their US television market mindset.

by deus01 :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 9:08am

Well the NFL is still selling exclusive rights to broadcasts that are bringing them lots of money. If the networks are overpaying for those rights then it makes sense that the NFL wouldn't offer those streams for free. To me it seems like NFL broadcasts have a lot of commercials advertising other programs on the same network, so it wouldn't surprise me if games are being as used as a sort of loss leader to promote other things in the Network.

As a fan I definitely want them to make every game available for easy streaming (preferably with the awesome Madden cam view as an option) but as a business decision it may not make sense yet.

by bigpoppapump :: Thu, 11/09/2017 - 6:23am

NFL GamePass is the answer if you live in Europe - I think?

It's what I do - never miss a thing and all access to every game from the last 5 yrs.

by Cythammer :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 10:16pm

This is the first time all year I've definitely wanted the Jets to lose, and so of course they're winning by 10. Lol.

by Cythammer :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 10:40pm

This'll be a pretty bad loss for the Bills if they can't launch a big rally. This was one of the easier games left on their schedule.

by deus01 :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 10:47pm

Two really bad fumbles. Their OL is also just being dominated by the Jets D line.

by RobotBoy :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 10:51pm

Wow, the Jets are rolling Buffalo. I just saw Forte break about nine tackles on two runs, and then watched Taylor get sacked for the sixth time after fumbling a snap. Oh, and now the Jets TE isn't touched after making a catch and going to the ground. He gets up thinking the play is dead and is stripped by the Jets.
There is still plenty of talent on this Jets D and the rookies are looking good. Did anyone expect them to perform like this? Amazing.
Does Bowles get to keep his job because of how competitive they are or does he get fired even quicker for failure to tank properly?
So much for the Bills being a threat to the Pats.

by Biebs :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 11:15pm

Doesn't get fired quicker. But it does feel like the Jets 8-8 season in 2013. That was another Jets teams that seemed supremely untalented (Kerley was the #1 WR, Geno Smith at QB) and somehow managed an 8-8 season, that gave Rex another season that turned into a minor debacle.

by Raiderjoe :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 12:58am

What doesb tank properly mean?

Also this is football. Not NBA or whatever stupid sport u watch that gave you this stupid tabkijg idea

Please I can't take it anymore with this tanking talk

by RobotBoy :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 1:24am

Raider Joe, your irony works on so many levels and with such hyperbolic intensity that it is impossible to know when, if ever, you're being serious. Nay, you destabilize the very concepts of 'certainty' and 'meaning' themselves. I look forward to your collected aphorisms.

by Raiderjoe :: Sat, 11/04/2017 - 8:09am

Wass responding to this-
"Does Bowles get to keep his job because of how competitive they are or does he get fired even quicker for failure to tank properly?"

Change Bowles to name of any head coahc, any eyar and would find such a qiuesiton insulting as NFL fan.

If a team was going to fire head coach for not tnaking properly (whatever that actually means), then that is very sad commentary. also, fi a team relaly worried about such a thing, then maybe the team was drunk for letting the head coach still be the head coahc.

Rebuilding- get rid of expensive veterans who won't be with team long temr and are keeping playing time away from youngsters; letting the younger players gel and grow and help change team culture

tnaking- doing things to purposefully lose to improve drarft stock; very strong allegation

SEems "rebuilding" applies to Jets

Am not seeing tanking applyinh to any teams EVER except possibly in final motnh of a season like when team is 3-9 and another team is 3-9, both need a franchise quatreback, and thgere is considered to be one franchise quarterback at top of next draft

Do you really think a NFL team enters a season at 0-0 and truly wants to go 0-16 or 1-15?

The anmswer, beucuase some need to be told, is NO

by BJR :: Sat, 11/04/2017 - 9:27am


This ought to be a fun season to be a Jets fan so far. Expectations were they were worst team in the league, but they look far from it, and are actually winning some games. Their rookie safeties are performing well. A.S.Jenkins and R.Anderson are nice stories having been plucked from the scrapheap and look like pieces to build their offence around.

It should be fun to root for an underdog punching above their weight like this. Anybody upset or confused about them not 'tanking' and missing out on one of the top couple of picks in the draft really ought to take a break from following football because their priorities are wrong.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 2:55pm

RJ is always serious. Are you new here?

by nat :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 9:53am

So much for the Bills being a threat to the Pats.

That seems a bit of an overreaction to one bad, fumble-filled game. The Bills are one game behind with eight games to go. They have (and will still have, I'd think) the better DVOA and easier schedule. Given the specifics of the schedule, if the Bills were to regain that one game, then the tie breakers would be close.

The edge goes to the Patriots for having the one game lead. But the Bills remain a serious threat to win the division. It's way too soon to panic.

by Hoodie_Sleeves :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 12:40pm

They have the better DVOA because the Patriots defense literally didn't know what they were supposed to be doing or who they were supposed to be covering for the first 3 or 4 games. They've made schematic changes and have been allowing <13 points/game since.

If the Patriots defense is merely "bad" and not "worst in the nfl" they're a huge favorite over Buffalo.

We'll know on Dec 3rd, I guess, but I'm pretty confident that NE's DVOA will be higher than Buffalo's at that point (assuming Brady hasn't pumpkin'd).

by Hextall_27 :: Sat, 11/04/2017 - 1:25am

I think this comes down to division math.

The Patriots don't have a division loss and the Bills lost to the Jets.

If New England sweeps Miami, splits with Buffalo and beats New York in Foxboro then the race is over.

I think Buffalo has the harder schedule because New England is better than Buffalo and the Patriots really tough game is against a team they own. The Patriots get a very bad Denver on the road and a flawed Oakland at a neutral site. The Bills have to play New Orleans, at a dangerous Chargers (with those pass rushers) then at KC before they host New England.

I would not bet on Buffalo in any of their next 4 games. I don't expect 0-4 but I don't expect 3-1 either.

by deus01 :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 10:58pm

I feel like there have been a ridiculous number of penalties and other game stoppages. Even Romo is complaining about the pace of play.

by RobotBoy :: Thu, 11/02/2017 - 11:13pm

The Jets look so loose and confident on D. Before this latest series, the D linemen were actually dancing at the line as they waited for the snap. No playing it conservative either, they keep attacking and Taylor turns over the ball again on a sack-fumble.
I thought the Bills O-line was supposed to be good? Haven't been following them closely so I don't know about injuries.
Has any statistical work been done on the difference between teams' records inside their division vs. outside? Seems like many bad teams do better against even elite division opponents. (Not that the Bills are elite).

by Perfundle :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 12:29am

"Has any statistical work been done on the difference between teams' records inside their division vs. outside?"

Well statistically, the average team wins 50% of their games in division, and 50% of their games out of division.

Joking aside, I guess the way to measure this is to look at good teams versus bad teams. Preferably this would be between teams that finished a certain number of games apart by seasons end, but I can only look at playoff versus non-playoff.

Here is the performance of playoff teams versus in-division non-playoff teams over the last 10 years, both straight up and against the spread: http://pfref.com/tiny/NnxPd

And here's out-of-division: http://pfref.com/tiny/Qdnwd

So playoff teams are slightly worse in division: 3.6% lower winning percentage straight up and 6.4% lower against the spread, but there's certainly a lot of variation. New England is worse in their division, while Indianapolis is better, although that's mainly because the other AFC South teams have been worse than the other AFC East teams during this time period.

by RobotBoy :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 1:55am

Thank you.
I had the vague notion that familiarity might remove some of the variation in the quality of coaching, unusual schemes or unique athletic ability - i.e., no matter how much film study you do, your players still won't be completely comfortable against a read-option system if they're facing one for the first time, while few scout teams will be able to replicate the play of, say, Aaron Rodgers in practices.
The knowledge that they'll face division opponents twice a season without fail must lead to the assignment of all kinds of additional resources to preparing for that opponent (including how teams draft and trade).
So does this resource allocation tend to reach a point of diminishing returns leading games to be decided by smaller margins, and perhaps indicate as well a relative wash in athletic ability between NFL rosters, as even the worst starter on a team, after all, is an elite athlete.
Pretty far fetched, I admit.
It does seem that playing the Patriots twice a year would benefit opponents, as the Patriots' success is so scheme dependent. It's not like their roster, year in and year out, is stacked with guys who have great combine scores.
One caveat about division records. It seems like the league generally schedules a divisional opponent for the last game of the season, a time when playoff seeding is often determined. In that situation, playoff teams tend to rest starters, skewing the results.

by Hoodie_Sleeves :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 1:04pm

" It's not like their roster, year in and year out, is stacked with guys who have great combine scores.'

Just nitpicking, but pretty much everyone that plays a "skill position" for the Patriots has great 3-cone and short-shuttle times, usually in the top 10 of their draft.

This may be a bit chicken and egg though - as I'd guess that cornerbacks who are fast but not particularly agile look terrible covering guys like Edelman in practice.

Its clearly something they value - LeGarret Blount would have had the 3rd fastest RB 3 cone in this year's draft. (MCCAFFREY at 6.57 and Jones at 6.82 - BLOUNT was 6.85)

by RobotBoy :: Sat, 11/04/2017 - 6:27am

That's my bad. What I meant to say was that the Pats aren't exactly stacked with astonishing athletes (at least in NFL terms). Gronk, obviously. And against the grain this year they went out and got Cooks and Gilmore.
In fact, BB traded two of his best athletes last season.
After the first superbowl, the Pats missed the playoffs (because Brett Favre didn't beat the Jets on the last regular season Sunday). I remember a quote from a player on another team that the Pats 'just beat you with scheme' and didn't have the talent to match up straight ahead. It was a transition year as the players from BB's drafts were still really young and the Carrol guys were getting old). Yet that comment has stuck with me. If you take away some of the surprise of BB's unorthodox schemes, you level things down quite a bit.

by Raiderfan :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 6:19am

I am impressed by your ability to query pfr since I am a complete fail at it.

by Raiderfan :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 6:22am

Watching this game would give you the impression that it was the Jets who were playoff contenders and the Bills were the sad sacks, especially how the Jets are controlling both lines of scrimmage. Bowles clearly had them ready for this game, and their 38 year old QB looked spry and sharp.
Just any given Thursday in the NFL.

by Mike B. In Va :: Fri, 11/03/2017 - 1:56pm

Exactly. The Jets came ready to play. The Bills haven't looked this bad since last year.

Maybe it's Rex Mojo. ;)

by RobotBoy :: Sat, 11/04/2017 - 6:31am

The Jets three most recent losses are by 7, 5, and 3 points. Is the roster really as denuded of talent as it was made out to be or is Bowles doing a surprisingly good job?

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 2:58pm

Did you mean Ron Mexico? XD

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 2:51pm

Oh my god, I forgot the Broncos were playing Osweiler this week. Fuck Vance Joseph, Seimian has been getting bad coaching all year. This is scapegoating pure and simple. I never liked the Joseph hire, but I gave him a chance. We should have hired Shannahan.

I'm a Broncos fan, yet I'm laughing my ass off at the Broncos losing. WTF did they expect? WTF did they even sign Brock for in the first place?

God fucking damnit I stopped rooting for Washington because of their fucked up organization, but now the Broncos are dysfunctional too? Arrrghh!

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 2:59pm

Sorry to rub salt in the wound, but when I heard Semian got benched for Osweilwer, the first thing I did was LOL. Then second thing I did was pick up the Philly defense on my fantasy team. I’m not regretting the decision so far.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:11pm

It's all good, you earned a LOL with that one :)

by deus01 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:12pm

You'd think after a few years now of seeing the same results you'd think the broncos would realize that unless you have the GOAT at QB it doesn't matter who's back there; the offense is going to suck when you don't have an O-Line that capable of blocking and not committing penalties.

Siemian made a lot of bad decisions, but what do you expect when he's always running for his life? We already know that Osweiler isn't any good, switching to him is merely an attempt to deflect from the horrible coaching.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:39pm

Edit: double

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:38pm

I think Elway is just a terrible GM, who got lucky twice (signing Manning, hiring Kubiak who hired Phillips). All the FAs on Denver's D came because of Peyton.

Elway is ironically a horrible QB evaluator: he drafted OS in the 2nd round! Then signed him after seeing him in Houston and after he failed to even make the Browns roster!

I stopped rooting for Wash bc the problem is a guy who can't be fired, because he owns the team. In Denver, the problem can't be fired because he's a local hero!

by dank067 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:29pm

This reminds me of how much praise Elway got at times last season for not bringing back Osweiler. (Particularly before Denver's playoff push fizzled out.) I don't know if we'll ever know how much they offered him but with Osweiler talking this year about how he agonized over the decision to go to Houston, Elway almost certainly offered him a contract at least in the ballpark that the Texans signed him for.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 2:57pm

Rams score a long TD off a wide receiver screen on 3rd and 33.

Great, now offensive coordinators will be calling more WR screens based on that one outlier.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:03pm

Man, Goff is dealin’ today. He finally remembers that Sammy Watkins is on his team and hits hit for a 67 yard bomb to put the Rams up 24-7.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:07pm

I shoulda' had the courage of my convictions, and invested in a Rams NFC Champion futures pick, back in September.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:15pm

It would be reasonable to think they would be much better on the strength of their defense. Few people predicted their offense would be this good.

The 2016 vs the 2017 Rams should be exhibit A to argue against people who think coaching doesn’t matter that much at the NFL level. It’s like an almost perfect control group vs experimental group.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:25pm

That and the Singletary -> Harbaugh -> Tomsula 49ers. The exact same roster was a SB contender with Harbs, a bottom dweller with anyone else.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:25pm

The wild card was McVey, of course, but not that wild, given how well Cousins performed. Wade Phillips has an argument for best d coordinator ever, so I was very confident that they would get to 9 wins. They now appear to be one of those young, very well voached teams that keeps improving into January. I think they'll keep getting better.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:04pm

The ironic thing is that the Broncos have a roster that likely would be much closer to being optimized if it was coached by John Fox.

Osk Broweiler makes Keese Cane'im look like Fran Tarkenton.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:11pm

24-6 now in Philly. I'd hope the final score is 56-6 if I thought there was any chance of the Broncos learning anything

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:14pm

If this is the harbinger of the rest of the Broncos season, I think they'll be looking at new coaches by mid-December.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:26pm

AJ Green getting himself ejected from the game is dumb on his part, but not as dumb as trying to close-fist punch someone wearing a football helmet.

by Steve B :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:32pm

Lost his mind. Have to think that was overall frustration with Cincy boiling over more so than Jalen Ramsey getting under his skin. Not seeing what Ramsey did to warrant getting tossed, too.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:39pm

The Eagles might get to 38 by halftime.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:42pm

Very much looking forward to Eagles at Rams in about a month.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:45pm

Yea that’s gonna be fun. I would like it to be flexed, but I bet FOX will want to hold onto it.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:42pm

Against my better judgement, I’ve been checking in on Colts-Texans. Boy is Tom Savage bad. It’s amazing to think Bill O’Brien thought he deserved to start the season over Deshaun Watson.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:45pm

How's Brissett looked?

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:49pm

Not bad. Had a nice throw to TY Hilton on a long bomb TD. He is limited, though. He’ll probably be a good backup in the league for a long time. If the Colts had a halfway decent roster they’d still have a chance in the AFC South.

by Ben :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:46pm

Brissett should have a long solid career as a backup or journeyman starter for teams trying to find their “real” QB.

I’d be surprised if he ever gets good enough to be a long term starter, but he generally looks competent and like he at least belongs on a NFL field.

by Ben :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:42pm

I don’t see how Houston can trot Savage out again next week, he looks terrible.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:47pm

And just as I read this post, Savage throws a 50-50 ball that DeAndre Hopkins comes down with for a 40 yard TD to bring Houston within one score.

by Ben :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:49pm

Of course, as soon as I post this, Savage goes 4-4, including a 34 yard TD, on the next drive.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 3:58pm

The Dirk Koetter coup is definitely looking like a failure. He'll be up against a wall by January. Sucks for Winston.

by BJR :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:14pm

My word there are some dumpster fire teams out there. Giants, Bucs, Broncos were all expected to complete this year, all now in complete disarray.

by joe football :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:28pm

Time for another season of FO slack gameday chat! For people who are already in, just go to https://kotakuites.slack.com/messages/fo/details/. For anyone that wants to join a star-studded cast of their favorite FO posters for gameday chat, just email me at gamadict@gmail.com and you will receive an invite

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:30pm

My frustration-fueled 56-6 prediction is looking less and less hyperbolic with every possession!

by Cythammer :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:33pm

Julio Jones with about as bad of a drop as you'll ever see on a long pass to the endzone where he was wide, wide open. The worst part is that it was on 4th-and-8 with the Falcons down by 10. Now the game's almost over.

by roguerouge :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 4:59pm

This is so unfair. The Patriots haven't had any penalties called on them today. The refs are a joke!

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 5:18pm

You're a PATRIOTS fan. Where do you get off complaining about ANYTHING?

by roguerouge :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 5:55pm

It was a joke, dude. And I've posted seriously with stats research the last few times this broken record has run. So, whatever.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 5:15pm

DeAngelo Hall is still in the NFL? And he's STARTING? What? ??

by Theo :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 7:06pm

He moved to safety.
And still returns punts.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 5:19pm

The season's surprises were rolling today. Rams, Jags, and Saints all look likely to make the playoffs. Saints aren't quite in the same category as those other two, but it's still been years since they were anything more than mediocre.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 5:24pm

So the Rams apparently scored a TD on a third-and-33 today. I wonder what the record is for longest yardage to go on a play that resulted in an offensive TD. Can't imagine it would be too much longer than 33.

by deus01 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 5:47pm

And it was a wide receiver screen of all things. It helps when your opponent probably shouldn't count as an NFL team.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 6:02pm

Viking Leroy Hoard ran 53 yards up the middle on 3rd and 37 against the Broncos on 10/31/99. Not certain he scored. Bills Rob Johnson threw a 40 yard touchdown to Peerless Price against the Colts on 4th and 34 on 9/23/01

Edit: FYI there have been a couple 3rd and 50s and a 3rd and 63, none of which were converted

by roguerouge :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 6:03pm

Nice research! Wonder if there's video...

by Hextall_27 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 11:11pm

Hoard did not score, but George hit Carter for a 37 yard TD on the next play.

So they were 3rd and 37 from the Vikings 10 and scored after 2 plays.

by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 9:17pm

fox noted r. woods TD to be longest 3rd and logn for TD made since d. meggett in 1989 giants-broncos snow gam,e

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 6:09pm

EVERY TIME Terelle Pryor catches the ball he runs backwards. Even when he's 4 yards deep on a 3rd and 3. Maybe especially then

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 6:28pm

Jason Garrett chews gum exactly like how cows chew cud! Hahahaha that is uncanny

by Theo :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 7:11pm

The Seahawks play about as good as the mistakes they make: missed FG and about a bazillion false starts by the offense.
[update] 3 missed field goals

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 6:47pm

F'n Dallas. Their kicker is named Nugent and they don't even take advantage by cheering "NUUUUUUUGE" after every FG and XP! They shouldn't be allowed to have nice things

by deus01 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 6:52pm

Wow. Dallas just lets Hill run right through 7 defenders for a 57 yard TD as time expires.

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 7:14pm

I was wondering if Dallas had hired Dom Capers away from Green Bay

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:06pm

What kind of headphones are the announcers wearing? They look like Sennheiser HD25's

by Steve B :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:16pm

How about Russell Wilson as the mid-season MVP?

by vrao81 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:20pm

Total defensive breakdown on that Baldwin TD. Totally forgot to cover him.

by vrao81 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:28pm

Doctson with an amazing catch and Kelly for the score to give the lead back to the skins.

by Steve B :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:38pm

Legion of Doom looking more like the Legion of Moob lately.

by vrao81 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:38pm

Crazy ending to SEA-WAS. SEA in field goal range but Wilson's knee was down when he tried to throw, that left them one last hail mary that was incomplete.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:39pm

Awesome game in Seattle! Crazy ending, competent, hard play from both teams all game. Even the refs and announcers did a good job

by BJR :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:39pm

2 turnovers, 3 missed field goals, and 16 penalties for 140 yards. That's how you lose at home to a Redskins MASH unit.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:55pm

Blair Walsh gonna Blair Walsh.........

by BJR :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 9:40pm

Seriously, Washington had no business winning that game. Their offence is decimated by injury and unsurprisingly did nothing outside of two drives. Cousins was sacked 6 times and it could have been many more. A dreadful, self-inflicted loss for Seattle.

by Hextall_27 :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 11:19pm

A kicker misses a 27 yard field goal with a chance to beat you in the playoffs so you sign him to play for your team in rainy Seattle.

This loss is on the GM.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:44pm

Oh snap, they just showed the Evans/Lattimore hit on NBC. Lots of A-tier players involved in fights today.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:51pm

"Obviously I missed something this week"
-Vance Joseph, after starting Brock Osweiler this week

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 8:58pm

Seahawks at Cardinals now looks more interesting, especially in the desert on Thursday night.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 9:23pm

Yes, although the problem is the Cardinals are much worse than their 4-4 record might indicate. Two of those wins are against the 49ers, and the others are over the Bucs and Colts.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 10:53pm

Seattle's o-line is bad enough to produce a loss against anyone, especially on the road, on a night where their kicker is having a bad game. Seattle's usually kept Peterson in check, but he has had his moments. Arians is a smart coach. He'll see if he can steal a 16-13 squeaker.

by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 9:18pm

Things got a little squirrely in Washignton as Washington beat sehawks take a Seat

by RickD :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 1:12am

More people need to get on board with RJ calling the Redskins the "Squirrels".

by deus01 :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 9:44am

I agree. It's well past the time we should stop using their offensive name and since they refuse to change it Squirrels is good option (failing that I would also consider 'Washington' acceptable).

by ChrisS :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 1:57pm

I prefer "The Potatoes", but Squirrels is fine as well. But what I can really get behind is renaming the Lions the Loins

by Cythammer :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 10:17pm

Wow, a surprise onside kick is recovered by the kicker. Adam Gase doing his best to add some excitement to a subpar Sunday Night matchup.

by ChrisS :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 2:01pm

Teams really should be trying 8-10 surprise onside kicks a season. Especially when a penalty moves the ball to the 45 or 50 yard line.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 11:05pm

This camera angle reminds me of playing Madden.

by rageon :: Sun, 11/05/2017 - 11:12pm

And Al Michaels just apologetically explains why they are using the behind-the-QB cam. I guess nothing was learned from the New England game a few weeks back.

by Cythammer :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 12:09am

I can't stand the video review rules. It should never depend upon the coaches, just have the same system used in the last two minutes for the whole game. Any questionable call should be automatically reviewed. Not relevant in this situation, but the fact that an obviously bad call can end up standing simply because a coach is out of challenges is really stupid.

by MJK :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 1:00am

I don't know. I'm in the camp that believes the argument that too much replay would cause the game to slow down too much.

I would do it a different way--coaches have unlimited challenges, but only as long as they still have timeouts. Same rules as otherwise. If you lose your challenge, you lose a timeout. And no silly change of rules in the last two minutes or overtime.

I still would review all TDs and turnovers, though.

by Cythammer :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 1:11am

I don't think there's any reasons that doing it the way I suggested would result in too many replays. I think your idea would be worse than what we have, since it could lead to obvious bad calls standing just because a coach is out of TOs, which sounds terrible to me.

by Jerry :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 6:19am

If every play gets reviewed by the booth, you end up looking at whether a 1-yard pass on 3rd-and-8 was complete or not. Coaches can, correctly, decide it's not important. Officials can't.

The original system, used from 1986-91, didn't involve the coaches, and there were 2.2 reviews per game, with a 12.6% reversal rate. The current system has 1.3 reviews per game, with 37% reversals. (That's from 1999-2016.)


by deus01 :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 9:48am

The problem is that the NFL requires the Referee to jog over to a tablet and watch the video. If the booth just made calls and relayed those to the people on the field the replay process would complete much quicker.

In some situations I could see why you'd want to know what the person on the field saw (cameras may not show some things), however, most of the time video evidence provides a pretty clear answer and the process can be completed much quicker.

by Stendhal1 :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 5:45am

There is objective evidence that Colin Kaepermick is a good teammate, not a disrupter or bad teammate or baggage-dragger. He won the Len Eshmont award last year, the highest award a San Francisco 49er can win, as voted by his teammates.

As a resident of the Bay Area and occasional attender of 49er games, I can say it was time for Kaepernick to leave. His play mysteriously stagnated in the last year of Harbaugh's tenure. (In part, I blame playcalling at the end of the Super Bowl and NFC championship game that did not trust his running skills.) It was painful to watch him struggle to snap the ball on time. That being said, his statistics last year were not terrible and this year's 49er record strongly suggests that the team's record last year was not Kaepernick's fault.

In a more sane world in which NFL football team management cared first about putting good football teams on the field, Kaepernick would have got a shot to rebuild his career by starting as a backup.

As for your comment and GwillyGecko's concurrence, I look at the shrill language you use and say, "consider the source."

by Vincent Verhei :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 4:05pm

Hi everyone,

I just deleted a thread of comments here concerning Al Michaels' commentary during Sunday Night Football that steered away from football and into politics. I know the lines between football and politics can get blurry these days, but we would really like to keep our comments here devoted to what happens during the games. Thank you.

by Will Allen :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:13pm

So painful to see the Packer offense try to function like this.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:26pm

For all of McCarthy’s talk of opening up the playbook, they seem to be using the Mitchell Trubisky offense tonight.

by Will Allen :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:36pm

Then they take a shot, and Adams half asses the catch attempt. Hundley needs all the support he can get.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:39pm

Yea that was a terrible play. He looked like rookie Nelson Agholor there.

by dank067 :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:56pm

That two minute drill was hardly impressive (except for getting the field goal attempt off!) but if nothing else I hope it helps McCarthy figure out that putting Hundley in the shotgun spread and giving him quick reads is going to at least allow them to string some positive plays together as opposed to all this slow-developing play action from under center with Hundley breaking down at the first intrusion of pressure. Throw in some read option looks (even if they're just fakes and not real options) and they might even force the Lions defense back on their heels a bit.

by Will Allen :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:43pm

Nice to see it demonstrated that a field goal team can get lined up and kick it.

by sbond101 :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:49pm

Great effort by the GB special teams unit to get the kick before halftime, but from a coaching point of view I really have to question whether Hundley taking a shot at 3-12 from the 25 yard line was really worth the risk with no time outs left. I guess the scoreboard says yes down 14-0 but still...

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 10:51pm

Yea seemed like a high risk/low reward decision there.

by vrao81 :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 11:12pm

Where's Aaron Jones? Only 4 carries?

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 11:39pm

When the Lions have the ball inside the 1 yard line, it almost seems like they would be better off committing a holding penalty.

Caldwell seems to have been scared off from being aggressive by that 97 yard Smith-Schuster touchdown last week.

by LionInAZ :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 12:10am

I can't figure it. Doesn't seem to matter which back is in, they can't get a single yard even on first and goal.

OK -- Washington gets tackled for a 6 yd loss. Now they have chance to score.

by Will Allen :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 11:52pm

I'd say Jim Bob whipped Dom tonight.

by Cheesehead_Canuck :: Mon, 11/06/2017 - 11:55pm

Most OC’s do.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 12:13am

Have we been understating how many flaws Aaron Rodgers covered up? Or is the rest of the team just too banged up?

by Cheesehead_Canuck :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 8:06am

I don’t want to toot my own horn and it’s easy to say this now, but I told people the season was over as soon as Jay Glazer said the team believes it’s a collar bone. It was clear in 2013 and it’s even more clear now that this is a bad team with bad coaching that has had the best QB in the world disguising them as a SB contender. They might have one W left on the sched: the Browns.

If they finish 5-11 MM and TT will get a pass because Rodgers was out, but it should be what gets them canned for failing to build even an average team outside of one player.

by Bright Blue Shorts :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 4:14pm

Shame the NFL outlawed trading coaches. Otherwise would you consider a trade with the Steelers for Mike Tomlin?

by LionInAZ :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 10:03pm

Rodgers covers up the deficiencies on OL, something neglected by all the Packer apoligist for Bulaga, Bakhtiari etc.. Ted Thompson gets the blame for failure to draft competent OL & DL. TT does fine at WR and LB, but pretty iffy elsewhere.

by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 12:10am

Why are the Lions still passing under 2 min left up 3 scores? That seems like tempting fate. Two of your division rivals have have had their starting QBs knocked out this year.

by LionInAZ :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 12:15am

Well, the Packers had no timeouts left. The Lions really need to work out how to score TDs in the red zone.

by ChrisS :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 11:31am

Put in the back-up QB and try 3 QB sneaks? I could not remember who the backup is, I avoid watching preseason football, and it is Jake Rudock. Their performance in goal to go situations is just ....... (insert your own description of worse than terrible).

by LionInAZ :: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 10:07pm

Stafford has been actually better at sneaks than the RBs on 1 yd runs. Why not try the QB play on 1st and goal instead? QBs rarely get injured on sneaks.