Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Week 6 Open Game Discussion

Week 6 kicks off tonight with one of the biggest Thursday night games we're likely to see all year: 4-1 Philadelphia at 4-1 Carolina in a possible playoff preview. Action continues as the Giants seek their first win on a trip to 3-1 Denver on Sunday night, then a battle of 2-3 teams square off on Monday night when Indianapolis visits Tennessee in a "somebody has to win the AFC South" special. Use this thread to discuss all the action.


by Cythammer :: Thu, 10/12/2017 - 8:37pm

This might be the best game of the week on paper, which is probably the first time that could be honestly said about a Thursday night game. Certainly a lot better than the Sunday night matchup. If only flex scheduling was allowed this early.

by leviramsey :: Fri, 10/13/2017 - 1:48pm

Even then, flex scheduling isn't able to move games from one day to the next (and I suspect it never will). Also, flexing out of TNF is even less likely than flexing out of MNF, due to the requirement that every team play a game as part of the Thursday/Saturday package.

by dank067 :: Fri, 10/13/2017 - 4:58pm

Regarding the Sunday night game, though, apparently it can be flexed out as early as Week 5:


The catch is that the decision has to be made on 12 days notice. Certainly the NFL would have figured there was a chance the Giants would be 0-5, but probably held out hope they'd be 1-4 where a win still gives them some hope of staying alive. And obviously they couldn't predict OBJ getting hurt...

by xydux :: Sat, 10/14/2017 - 1:58am

Wait, NBC could've flexed out of Broncos-Giants?

Even if you think it would be cool to see OBJ vs. CHJ (or Talib), I don't think that the rest of that matchup is that good a deal. Packers-Vikings, Lions-Saints, Steelers-Chiefs–all of those look better (and knowing what we do today, you can tack on Jaguars-Rams to that list).

EDIT: Yes I know Odell is injured, but it happened this weekend, so pretty much the only selling point for the game to NBC while they were still able to flex out of it would be OBJ vs. the Denver secondary.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 10:39am

Don't the broadcast networks have veto power for several matchups (guessing that's why it won't be Chiefs-Steelers)? Should've been Jags-Rams, it was obvious two weeks ago that both those teams are way more interesting than was expected heading into the season, and neither has a big enough following to prevent FOX from letting it go (this Rams team will be a great test of the L.A. market- they look like legit challengers to the Seahawks, and have really been a fun watch so far; that offense and coaching staff deserve all the rave reviews they've been getting, and they haven't really gotten the typical 'Wade Phillips in a new city' bump on defense yet- not only are they more competitive than expected, but they're competitive in fun, exciting ways- they ought to be a big draw). People were complaining about the Giants being on national tv all the time by Monday night of week two, so they should have seen this shitty matchup coming

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 1:09pm

As much as I would have loved Packers@Vikings, I agree that Rams@Jags would have been a great choice. I don't even know the last time either team has been on Sunday night.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:11pm

It's pretty stupid that the country has the shit-tacular NE/NYJ crapfest forced on us, when the Rams/Jags is quite clearly the marquee matchup this side of Pitt/KC

by xydux :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:51pm

In defense of scheduling Jets-Patriots: the Jets are better than expected, the Patriots are worse than expected, and if the game is close then you'll have plenty of people tuning in to watch the Pats (maybe) lose. Combine that with neither the Rams nor the Jags having many fans, and it makes sense to choose Jets/Patriots as the main early game matchup. Doesn't change the fact that Rams/Jags would be better, though.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:58pm

Rams-Jags is Fox, but, yeah, other than Pitts-KC, the CBS slate this week is dire (Mia-Atl and Cle-Hou were the other early games, and Chargers-Raiders is the alternate late)

by xydux :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:04pm

It's Fox? Didn't know that. In that case showing Packers/Vikings makes more sense, although I'd personally prefer seeing Rams/Jags.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:17pm

yeah, for interconference games, the road team's network carries the game (it's an odd rule)

by Jerry :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 2:56am

It goes back to when home games were blacked out. This allowed one network to be identified with each team.

by Cythammer :: Sat, 10/14/2017 - 12:08am

I wasn't imagining that they would have moved Panthers-Eagles to Sunday night, just one of the other Sunday games. Pretty much every other game is more intriguing than Broncos-Giants.

by Jerry :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 2:57am

A bad New York team still guarantees a large audience.

by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 10/12/2017 - 8:53pm

Cam Newton has the most lethargic sounding snap cadence

by The Ninjalectual :: Thu, 10/12/2017 - 9:16pm

Huh. On the 3rd down where Newton threw to Benjamin two yards short of the sticks, it looked like a pointlessly conservative throw in real-time. But on a replay with a wider angle, you could see how the coverage was shifting and the receiver appeared open enough to make the first, and the Philly safety, I guess, (#31), made a nice play coming up fast to shut it down.

Amazing how much more entertaining football is when the goddamn fucking network actually shows all the football being played.

by DavidL :: Thu, 10/12/2017 - 11:28pm

Officiating in CAR/PHI has been badly one sided. 126 yards assessed against the Eagles, and one (1) against the Panthers, with at least two DPI incidents where the refs kept their flags at their sides, and one truly ludicrous roughing call that led to a touchdown.

by BJR :: Fri, 10/13/2017 - 6:11am

Yes, the story of the game was the complete domination by the Eagles' D-line. Only that penalty differential kept it close. Cam looked beaten and dispirited by the end, and his accuracy went completely awry on those final drives.

And another game marred by an ugly injury to a star player. Have to wonder whether Kuechly is debating his future this morning.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 10:41am

apparently not a concussion, but, still, hard to see that again

by Jay Gloab :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:54pm

Saw this elsewhere...

Pete Morelli’s crew in last FOUR Eagles games

Philly penalties - 40 for 396 yards

Opponent penalties - 8 for 72 yards

by Mr Shush :: Fri, 10/13/2017 - 7:14am

"then a battle of 2-3 teams square off on Monday night when Indianapolis visits Tennessee in a "somebody has to win the AFC South" special"

Are we not coming around to the view that this year's AFC South is just actually quite strong? This matchup between #20 and #31 in DVOA takes place in a division that also includes #3 and #6... (#22, #31, #5 and #10 if you prefer DAVE)

by SFC B :: Fri, 10/13/2017 - 8:57am

I'm so glad the world has returned to normal with the NFC West being worse than the AFC South.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 10:50am

...and Tennessee would certainly rate higher without five quarters of Matt Cassel (of course, the same can be said for Indy and Luck, but, at this point, I'll believe he's healthy when I see it; they only really looked awful when Tolzien was starting, anyway)

by ChrisLong :: Sat, 10/14/2017 - 1:56pm

Week 6 score predictions:

Baltimore 23 Chicago 10
Houston 27 Cleveland 17
Green Bay 30 Minnesota 24
New Orleans 31 Detroit 17
Atlanta 41 Miami 7
Patriots 28 New York Jets 17
Washington 24 San Francisco 10
Arizona 19 Tampa Bay 17
Los Angeles Rams 17 Jacksonville 13
Pittsburgh 31 Kansas City 28
Oakland 27 Los Angeles Chargers 23
Denver 23 New York Giants 7
Tennessee 24 Indianapolis 20

by joe football :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 11:55am

Time for another season of FO slack gameday chat! For people who are already in, just go to https://kotakuites.slack.com/messages/fo/details/. For anyone that wants to join a star-studded cast of their favorite FO posters for gameday chat, just email me at gamadict@gmail.com and you will receive an invite

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 1:16pm

So the Browns are going with Hogan... that Kizer experiment was short.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 1:24pm

Huge early injury news, as Aaron Rodgers is carted off after a big hit.

by BJR :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 1:25pm

Just what this NFL season needed, an injury to Aaron Rodgers.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 1:31pm

Looks like shoulder/collarbone. Hope he's ok

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:09pm

The positive on Jabril Peppers, the football player, is that he is an ok returner.
They play him as a deep cover 1 safety and as a cover 2 safety - and in both he's pretty useless.
3rd and 1 and he lines up almost 20 yards deep.
I wonder why.

by JustAnotherFalc... :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 1:39pm

Falcons may be up 10-0, but so far they can't stop Ajaji.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 1:46pm

Hogan throws two floaters that should be completions. One went incomplete, one pick 6.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:48pm

I don't know how bad Kizer's been, but Hogan looks terrible.

by herewegobrownie... :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:54pm

Kizer has been bad, and Hogan this season put up 68.4% completion for 9.92 avg, 3td, 2 int, 73.7 QBR and 104.8 traditional passer rating going into this game, but this game is showing that that's an illusion from how DCs have been preparing for Kizer and not Hogan the previous games.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:12pm

Kizer looked like he had a live arm but looked like he was riding his bike on a highway.

by herewegobrownie... :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:49pm

Now we see that, despite a lot of clamor from Browns fans, there was a legitimate reason Hogan wasn't ahead of Kizer all along, and there was also a legitimate reason he used to be behind Kessler.

His "sparks off the bench" the last few weeks have strictly been because defenses didn't spend the week preparing for him, and even then they adjust after a few first downs.

by BJR :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:06pm

Ugh, Jim Caldwell kicking the field goal on 4th&1 at the Saints 20, down 24-7, when their defense is being routinely gashed by Brees and co.

by BJR :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:26pm

TD Saints ten plays later

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:08pm

Bogus gift PI giving the Pasts 1st and goal on the one. I was enjoying seeing the Jets humiliate the Pasts

by RobotBoy :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:52pm

Giving up 24 unanswered and losing by 10 (at the time of the fumble) was the Jets method for humiliating the Pats? Wow, the Jets really have humiliated the Pats frequently over the past 15 years.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:09pm

A bit touchy are you? I posted that comment in the second quarter when the score was 14-0.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:19pm

Hahaha Troy Aikman even looks like shit these days. Father time couldn't work fast enough on him, since that's the only way we'll ever be rid of the ass

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:22pm

Vikings have been effective on offense, while without Rodgers the Packers have not. Only thing keeping GB in it is a huge fumble return which stopped the Vikings from scoring and set up the Packers' only score. But unless something changes I don't see how GB wins.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:37pm

HOLY SHIT WHY ARE THESE REFS HELPING NEW ENGLAND SO MUCH? A Pasts receiver went to the ground after a catch, but it wasn't clear if he was down or not, and so a Jets defender TOUCHED HIM to down him. It was a rougher touch than you might use on a 5 year old, sure, but it was just a touch. The refs hand out 15!!! free yards to NE, for a defender doing his job intelligently.

Thank the football gods for pushing NE's FG kick wide. These refs' financials need to be examined by a forensic accountant.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:11pm

Hate that shit. Seems like certain select teams get the benefit of a 'most-favored nation' status time after time, and it's aggravating (this particular New England team sucks and they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt)

by RickD :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:27pm

"but it wasn't clear if he was down or not"

The defender took five steps before hitting the down receiver.

I'm presuming the whistle blew the play dead.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:20pm

By the way, the whistle doesn't actually end the play. The whistle only "marks" the end of the play, like a commemoration. It doesn't actually matter if the whistle blew or not, if the play wasn't over. There have been some infuriating inadvertent whistles in the past few years, making defenders pull up, without the play actually ending.

It doesn't matter how many steps he took, because the play wasn't clearly over. Guys get up from the ground all the time to make big plays, it happened in another early game today in fact. Defenders should always touch the player with the ball down to be certain, and that's what he did.

by sbond101 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:20pm

That's a pretty marginal take. The Jet's player could have simply touched him down if he thought the play wasn't over, instead he tried to hit him (granted not that hard). If the NFL let's stuff like that go you'll get a lot of dangerous plays (this is also a big problem I have with a lot of the unclear/reviewable calls about fumbles/incomplete/intercepted). If players play through the whistle, guys get hurt in stupid ways.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:41pm

I'm sorry you feel the NFL rules are a "marginal take", but I didn't make them up.

I was wondering when it was going to change from a "touch," to a "hit" xD

by sbond101 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 9:26pm

The call is "unnecessary roughness"; seems like it's definitional a judgment call which is why I labeled your position a "take". I get that there's two sides to the late hit argument, especially when offensive players exploit the rule on the sideline, I just think this call is pretty defensible given the choices the defensive player made (and would love to see less incentive offered to players to play through the whistle through review as I think it's really quite dangerous).

by JustAnotherFalc... :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 2:29pm

Cutler gonna Cutler; cost the Dolphins at least 3 at the end of the half. Running back up an open pocket, linebacker Deion Jones was beat, could either run for the first down or throw to the receiver. Makes the throw, but way behind, Jones gets a pretty easy interception.

Miami could do worse than go to the single wing with someone to catch the snap, spin, and hand to Ajayi. Wildcat is out, Ajayi appears to have hands of stone.

by xydux :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:06pm

So, opinions on the Rodgers hit? I thought it was clean and legal and Rodgers just landed wrong. How's everyone else feel?

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:13pm

it was clean; just bad luck

by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:14pm

Legal hit. Sucks for the Packers, but that's the NFL.

Hopefully McCarthy stops "protecting" Hundley with run into the line, run into the line, long third down pass play selection.

by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:19pm

It was legal, but thought Barr could have held up a bit. This is coming from a Packers fan.

by Al Hirt Hologram :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 7:18pm

Borderline, but benefit of the doubt to the defender.

by alljack :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 11:45pm

It was a cheap shot, but legal. Barr landed purposely with his elbow as the main point of contact with the player lying on the ground.

by agauntpanda :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:06pm

This Deshaun Watson individual again appears to be fairly good at football.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:09pm

The Browns cornerbacks are terrible. They just stand there and do nothing.
On the early TD vs cover 2 - the CB does nothing.
Now on the red zone play making it 32 - 3 he just doesn't move even when the receiver took 2 steps.
When playing zone you don't 'pass' a receiver to another zone, you 'deliver' him. Browns CBs are clueless about this concept.

by Yu Narukami :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:10pm


Green Bay Packers‏

QB Aaron Rodgers suffered a broken collarbone. There's a chance he could miss the rest of the season.

+ Bradford situation.

NFC North is up for grabs with Lions with only currently viable QB.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:55pm

"QB Vikings" seems to be having a strong season

by JustAnotherFalc... :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:10pm

Atlanta defense falling apart in the 3rd quarter. Two long drives given up, one augmented with two stupid penalties.

by BJR :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:24pm

Stafford was injured and questionable coming into this game right? Surely time to sit him down.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:26pm

Todd Bowles at least makes a good decision on a fourth-and-short on the Pats' side of the field. It doesn't work, and this games appears close to being over, but improved decision making from Bowles.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:48pm

Didn't particularly have a high opinion of Bowles coming into the season, but he's clearly got a lot of buy-in, and, if he's improving on in-game strategy, that's something that eludes some guys for years and years. I'd have preferred they tanked, but he's making the most of what they have

edit: wow, these refs should be fired, and probably investigated too for any financial irregularities. never seen anything like that call short of guys like tim donaghey

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:30pm

Wow, that Vikings have 24 first downs against only 5 from Green Bay. This game probably shouldn't be as close as it is.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:31pm

Hopkins does some amazing stuff, and he's probably going to obliterate the rookie touchdown record, but he does need to cut back on some of the more insanely risky throws. Pretty awful pick 6 there.

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:42pm

Similarly, Fuller is being very productive, but man, if he could only cut the drops out of his game. 3rd and 4, Hopkins hits him in the hands deep down the right sideline, and it bobbles right out of his mitts.

by agauntpanda :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:02pm

Watson right?

by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 9:30pm

Yes, pure brainfart.

by xydux :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:45pm

So, I admit that I hate the Patriots, but what kind of a call was that on the Sefarian-Jenkins play? He never loses the ball, has possession as he's going down–and yet somehow, because it was knocked loose (BARELY) for half a second at the goal line, it's a fumble OUT THE BACK OF THE END ZONE?

I'm sorry, WHAT is the LOGIC here?

by Hoodie_Sleeves :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:50pm

He definitely lost control of the ball - it came out and he had neither hand on it. That being said, it looked like he regained control before he hit the ground - so I'm a little surprised by the call.

That being said, the logic is that he fumbled the ball, and by the time he regained possession, he'd hit the ground, and his body was touching out of bounds - which means the ball is out of bounds.

This is one of those plays where the rules are a little confusing - can you regain possession of a fumble in the air? Or do you need to come down inbounds? Who knows.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:20pm

When he hit the pylon, he had control and kept it. I have no idea why this wasn't a TD.

by RickD :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:32pm

The question really is whether he had control or not when he hit the ground. Because he was in the process of being tackled, he had to do more than cross the plane. I couldn't tell.

I'm amazed the Pats got that call on the road.

Any chance the replay official has access to camera angles unavailable to the network?

BTW, regardless of that particular call, the "fumble out of end zone = touchback" continues to be the stupidest rule in the book. Why do the Pats get possession? I would rewrite the rule so the offense gets the ball back either at the one or at the point possession was lost. Then we wouldn't have games turning on the vagaries of whether a replay official sees a football slide a fraction of an inch at the goal line.

by PatsFan :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:19pm

The question really is whether he had control or not when he hit the ground. Because he was in the process of being tackled, he had to do more than cross the plane.

Huh? He wasn't in the process of making a catch. He already had clear possession as he was approaching the goal line. All he had to do was cross the plane in possession and it's a TD. That he was being tackled as he arrived at the goal line does not matter.

by Hoodie_Sleeves :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 11:07pm

" He already had clear possession as he was approaching the goal line"

And then he lost possession when he fumbled. They ruled that he lost possession of the ball.

by PatsFan :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:28pm

Or are you referring to the recontrolling part? FWIW, here's FootballZebra's take. I didn't realize that recovering a fumble follows the "going to the ground" rule.

Seferian-Jenkins bobbles the ball at the 1-yard line and subsequently re-controls the ball. The bobble makes the ball a “loose ball” under the rules. Any loose ball (which includes passes) follow the catch process to establish possession. It may seem like an arbitrary designation, but this is a clear way to bookend loose ball calls by keeping all loose balls consistent, no matter how they occur. Seferian-Jenkins is going to the ground as he regains control of the ball, and lands out of bounds in the end zone. This takes the ball, still considered loose, out of bounds in the end zone, which is a touchback and loss of possession.

by Joshua Northey :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:48pm

Wow you Pats homers will go to any lengths to try an defend an interpretation probably 99.9% of non Pats fans think is garbage. No other part of football is adjudicated like that. It was just an incredibly bad ref decision. End of story.

by PatsFan :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:29pm

Your tears are most delicious.

In any event, I think the TD should have stood because it was not clear where the ballcarrier re-established control of the ball. No conclusive evidence to overturn the TD call on the field.

But the ballcarrier did clearly lose the ball before crossing the plane.

by PatsFan :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:20pm

The ball was absolutely completely out of his hands before he crossed the plane.

However, I believe it is impossible to tell when he reestablished control. Therefore, since the call on the field was a TD, the TD should have stood.

by sbond101 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:41pm

I disagree; Shouldn't this be subject to the "holy roller" rule. the offense can't fumble a ball forward and recover it, so if it's a clear recovery before he's out of bounds the it's the Jets ball at the 1-ish. The fumble out of bounds in the end zone rule is BS, but it was called one of only two correct ways according to the current rule book (Jets at the 1, or Pat's on a touchback). The ball was out at the 1, and it's close whether he had it back before the ball/he was out of bounds.

Regardless, as a Pat's fan I'll take this as payment for one of the 3 games in the last three years the Pat's have been totally jobbed out of by the refs. Maybe this one squares the Pats & the Jets for the FG-Block push game in 2013.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 7:14pm

I think we can safely ignore your assessments of the refereeing in past Jets-Pats game, because are pretty damn clueless when it comes to NFL rules. First of all the holy roller rule only applies to fourth down plays or those within the last two minutes, neither of which applies in this situation. Secondly, the rule is simply that players OTHER than the original fumbler are not allowed to advance the ball. Obviously that's irrelevant since Sefarian-Jenkins is the only offensive player who touched the ball after his purported fumble.

Seriously, I don't understand how someone can watch NFL games and believe that the offense is NEVER allowed to advance fumbles. It happens with some regularity.

by nlitwinetz :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 8:38pm

This call seems clear as day to me.
1. He completely lost control of the ball, it was not touching any part of his body. I don't think anyone can deny any part of this statement as it was clear in video replay.
2. He does not regain possession after losing control and get both feet in bounds. Again, perfectly clear in the replays.
3. The ball passed through the end zone and out of bounds while not being possessed. This follows naturally from #1 and #2.

What part of this is even up for debate?

by Yu Narukami :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 2:30am

I'll add that referees in post-game press declared that they saw footage that made the call immediately conclusive. Whatever these images were broadcasted or even available to CBS, I don't know.

by Yu Narukami :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:45pm

Seferian Jenkins fumbled in the endzone with very un-clear images.

Maybe it's finally time they agreed on Darth Hoodie's proposal to put goal line cameras.

At the same time, it's inexcusable that commentators do not have a clue about what is going on.

by RickD :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:35pm

Dan Fouts immediately decided the call was a travesty and CBS never bothered to try to explain why the call might make sense. We do see the ball moving in Jenkins' hands as he's getting tackled. Is it enough to say he's "juggling" the ball? I have no idea.

But for the rest of the game CBS kept showing the same replay, over and over. Gets repetitive after a while.

by Joshua Northey :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:50pm

I found it funny that in the NFL's 9min! recap of that game, they did not show that play...

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:45pm

WTH is going on in Jets-Pats. That overturned TD is one of the nuttiest calls I've ever seen. I'm baffled.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:53pm

people joke about refs being on the take all the time. never seen a call that makes me think everybody involved should be thoroughly audited like that before

by Joshua Northey :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:25pm

That was a bizarre call given the situation.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:46pm

Wow what a surprise the refs just screwed NYJ out of another touchdown. I never would have expected that based on their previous performance!

What a fucking farce.

by mehllageman56 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:50pm

While I understand the Bronco fan's disgust, and definitely felt the officiating was tilted towards the Pats in this game, I'll take this loss times ten more and Josh Rosen, thank you very much.

I was angry at the pass interference on Adams to set up the Pats' first touchdown, but in retrospect it was a fair call, he was face guarding. The hand fighting was pretty minimal on that play; Adams just needs to learn when to turn around to catch it when Brady hits him on the numbers. Brady throws that against most veterans, it's an interception.

Overall, it was an entertaining game. Now I've got to get back to work.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:07pm

Jets almost certainly won't lose their next ten though. They look like a firmly mediocre team who should win at least a few more times, not a contender for worst in the league.

by Led :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 8:42pm

The Adams call was bad. The only contact occurred because Gronk hugged him in order to pull himself back to the ball. But the Jets got a make up no call on a similar play later when Lee more clearly interfered. I'm still not in a condition to discuss the ridiculous goal line reversal.

by stoste :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:49pm

That call was bizarre and the refs have generally been pretty bad in this game for both teams but I think that ruling may have come from New York?

by Yu Narukami :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 3:53pm

I think so.

Call should be technically correct, however video-footage didn't look that conclusive.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:02pm

it isn't technically correct- he never fumbled in or out of the end zone- he fumbled in the field of play than recovered before it reached the end zone. if it was in the field of play, the jets should have it inside the one, else it should be a touchdown where he recovered it (and the burden on a reversal is indisputable video evidence, clearly a standard not met)

by Hoodie_Sleeves :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:14pm

"recovered before it reached the end zone"

He was in the air when he fumbled the ball - and he came down out of bounds. The question is whether or not a fumble recovery requires you to gain possession of the ball in bounds, like a reception does.

If the ball is "recovered" when he gets both hands on it, its a bad call. If he needs to reestablish possession, he doesn't, and the ball went out of bounds in the end zone (because it touched a player that was out of bounds)

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:10pm

These refs have lost all credibility. Even when the call goes against NE, I'm thinking "ah-ha, so you just called that minor 5-yard penalty to give the appearance of impartiality didn't you"

by agauntpanda :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:11pm

Rams-Jaguars tied at 7-7 after 25 seconds. Pharoh Cooper returns the opening kickoff 103 yards; then, on the first Jaguars play from scrimmage, Leonard Fournette takes the ball 75 yards to the house.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:13pm

Ravens have 24 points without an offensive TD. They've scored on a kick and punt return. I wonder what the record is for most points without the offense getting a TD. Probably more than 24.

by Cheesehead_Canuck :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:14pm

The Patriots aren’t good but with so many star players lost for the season, the league needs them to be in he mix come January.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:27pm

This is an easy statement to disagree with xD

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:38pm

Clearly that's the league's line of thinking, but it's garbage (the AFC has been stale for so long- those graphics on reddit showing the AFC has been the Pats, the Steelers, and Manning's team in like 90% of the AFC championships for 16 years show how repetitive it all is- something like 12 NFC teams have made the championship game in the same time, and the NFC has been consistently more entertaining this decade)

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:21pm

Kaepernick would be an excellent signing for Green Bay now, yes?

For a league that didn't hesitate to give Mike Vick a second chance, this Kaep-blackout is inexcusable.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:47pm

obvious that a few teams could maybe use him, but i don't see it happening at this point (prove me wrong, guys)

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:28pm

If anyone does, it would have to be Green Bay, right? Because they don't have an owner who can be intimidated, right? Right?

*breaks down sobbing*

Seriously though it's astonishing to see so many teams losing specifically for want of a QB. How are fans okay with their team placing petty politics above winning?

by Joshua Northey :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:20pm

I am fully behind Kaep and the players regarding the relatively tame and reasonable nature of their protest, but I think there are a lot of play and attitude related reasons Kaep is not on a roster that have zero to do with his protest. It would be one thing if he was a solid contributor in other ways, or still a good QB, but neither of those is true IMO. He is just replacement level, and there are dozens of those guys floating around.

Where is all the outrage that Matt Flynn isn't on a roster?

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:37pm

There was an article on this site last year examining that very question, and demonstrating Kaep was much better. But even if you don't agree, don't you at least think he has the chance to regain his 2012 form? That's a hell of a lot more upside than your average replacement QB.

by Joshua Northey :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:57pm

No because he was an athletic fast twitch QB, and those skills generally decline with age and pretty quickly, and he demonstrated that he was not interested in developing the other parts of his game.

I mean if I was a team I would definitely have him in for a look. But you know if that didn't impress, who cares?

The difference between the 25th best QB and the 100th best QB is extremely small, and Kaep is likely on the tail end of that range. Its not like this is Aaron Rodgers, or even Matt Ryan.

He was worse in 2013 than 2012, and worse again in 2014, and again in 2015. And then was slightly better in 2016.

Do I find it surprising he is not on a roster? Sure. But that is true of a handful of people each year, many of whom have better reputations than him.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:16pm

No? I mean, just look up his DVOA numbers. He hasn't ranked higher than 28th in either DYAR or DVOA since 2013. At this point it's quite clear that 2012 was the anomaly, and that the real Kaepernick is the guy we've seen year after year since. I mean, if you're argument is that teams should want to sign a guy in hopes that he'll return to the form he had during one great season years ago, why aren't you clamoring for RGIII? I mean, seriously, why not? Because the exact same argument applies to him... Except that RGIII is actually two plus years younger. So RGIII is probably actually a much better choice.

by Joshua Northey :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:28pm

To add onto this, just 1 year ago Kaepernick was on the bench behind Blaine Gabbert after coming off an absolutely atrocious 2015 where he was sacked 4 times a game, and frankly sucked outside of 1 or 2 games. Then last year he came in and was, not quite as bad as 2015, but still worse than 2014.

There is Flynn, RGIII, Ponder, and so on. The people talking like he should so obviously be on a team are not really thinking it through.

by MurphyZero :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 11:27pm

There's a difference between being a starter in the league, being a backup, and being in camp for consideration of being the backup--At this point of his career, third guy is highly unlikely, even for someone who has good standing with the league. Given the state of a few teams in the league Week 1, not even being in camp was more than a little surprising. I would not have been surprised if he didn't make a team though. Given the injuries that occurred, a few were not going to look Kaep's way, but for those teams whose QB played similarly, it does look suspicious. Doesn't mean he's going to win the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if about 20 owners had agreed to make him persona non grata.

by ChrisLong :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 8:16am

I think this argument misses the point though. Yes, he was bad from 2014-2016. Really bad even. But before that he was really good! 7th in DYAR in 2013, 13th in 2012 (and 3rd in DVOA!). So we (and NFL teams) know his ceiling is not replacement-level like most other guys who have been bad the past 3 years, his ceiling is good to very good starter. That's what makes it nuts that he hasn't been signed, from a football perspective.

by vrao81 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:22pm

Adrian Peterson has more yards in the 1st quarter than the cardinals averaged per game.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:23pm

Somebody named Beatherd is threatening to lead the 49ers to a comeback win over the Redskins. Literally never even heard of this QB before.

by t.d. :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:54pm

bobby beatherd's grandson (gm for joe gibbs's redskins, may be a hof-er himself)

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:28pm

Wow, I stopped paying attention to this game at least an hour ago, but Lions might actually pull off coming back from 35 points down. I believe that would be the all-time record comeback, right?

by RickD :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:03pm

Bills were down 32 points in the famous Frank Reich game vs. Oilers. Google tells me that's still the record for a comeback.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:32pm

3 plays in and the Steelers offense have to take a time out. Ben's face reads something like "get your shit together".
Which is a good way to describe the Steelers coaching staff.

by jtr :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 9:08am

Bill Walsh used to script the first 25 plays of the game in advance. Todd Haley can't figure out what the third play of the game is going to be.

by vrao81 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:33pm

Not so fast..NO scores another defensive TD. 3rd one today.

by vrao81 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:34pm

49ers lose 5th straight by 3 or more pts.

by RickD :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:48pm

3 or fewer points, actually.

3 or more wouldn't be that unusual for a winless team.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:55pm

49ers are extremely unlucky to be winless. And not very impressive today from a team second in DVOA going into this week.

by RickD :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:05pm

Redskins are notorious for playing to the level of their competition. Quite frankly I'm surprised DVOA loves them as much as it does. That won't last.

Redskins' D was missing top two CBs. But still, I expected their offense to do better than that vs. 49ers. Even though Shanahan knows the team as well as he does.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:22pm

Their total annihilation of the Raiders a few weeks ago probably has a lot to do with it. Anyway, going into this week I thought the Redskins had been one of the best teams in the NFC. Their only losses have come against Philadelphia and KC, who are both very strong.

by Cheesehead_Canuck :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:36pm

I’m cheering for the Jags to win the SB so nobody is happy at season’s end.
Since I’m miserable I want everyone else to be.

by RickD :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:52pm

Feel awful about the Rodgers injury. The NFL is far less interesting when he's not playing.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:44pm

Agreed, this is a black day for any football fan, including other NFC North fans.

Living in Colorado, I didn't realize how often everybody in the country got Broncos games on TV in the last few years, or the effect Peyton Manning had on national ratings. Rogers is clearly the closest equivalent to that.

by Will Allen :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 8:54pm

5 weeks ago I thought the NFC North might be the best and most entertaining division. Two starting qb (one the best in the league), 1 rookie of the year candidate, bunch of o-line (although not Viking this year), bunch of Packer defense injuries, and poor Stafford play later, not so much.

by xydux :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:55pm

...problem is most people would be okay with the Jags winning. Let's see who would like it:

Chargers fans (what few of them are left): Yeah, sure, at least it wasn't the Broncos/Raiders/Chiefs.
Bengals fans: So long as it's not the Steelers.
Ravens fans: ...whatevs, so long as it's not the Steelers.
Jets fans: Not the Pats? We're on board!
Bills fans: Not the Pats? We're on board!
Dolphins fans: We miss Marino. Also, not the Pats? We're on board, even if it means we're not the winning Florida team.
Bears fans: At least it's not the Vikings or the Lions. Also it's not the Packers so that's sweet!
Giants fans: Fine, let Coughlin get another ring, we'll take it.
Rams fans (what few of them there are): Meh. Acceptable.

Now, let's see who would hate it:

Colts fans, maybe? Titans fans? Texans fans? Lions fans? Basically everyone whose team hasn't won one and still has hope for the season.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:15pm

On that note, I think Football Earth will explode in unison if the Browns win it.
The true underdogs are the Browns. The Jaguars are just bad.

by Cheesehead_Canuck :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 9:23pm

It was a failed attempt at poking fun of the fact I’ve never actually met a Jags fan. ;)

by MurphyZero :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 11:31pm

If you've ever seen the crowd at their home stadium, I not sure many Jacksonville citizens have met one either.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 4:51pm

Another week of crazy early afternoon games. I know the injuries have been bad, but to me this season has been extremely entertaining so far. Most of the division races, as well as the league as a whole, appear wide open.

I'm particularly shocked the Dolphins were able to come back from 17-0 to win. They looked so bad in their losses, but now they're 3-2 and the entire AFC East is at .500 or above. If the Patriots had lost, as they probably deserved to, NE would actually technically be alone in last place.

I'm very amused by the fact that the Steelers and Ravens managed to go a combined 0-4 against the Jags and Bears.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:04pm

Le'Veon Bell clearly gained an unfair advantage with that end zone celebration. A 15-yard penalty is a perfectly reasonable way of restoring competitive balance.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:10pm

Grandma is lazy as shit and buys McDonalds chicken nuggets for dinner so she can waste her time doing nothing.
This is a commercial to promote... what?

by xydux :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:23pm


by LionInAZ :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 8:27pm

More like assisted suicide.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 8:37pm

Haha of course she would be too lazy to even do *that* by herself

by vrao81 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 5:31pm

Chiefs have 11 yards of offense 2 min before halftime.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:12pm

How impressive it has been that the steelers have shut out the KC offense, I look and it's still just 12 - 3 in the middle of Q3.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:17pm

I believe the Chiefs have two WRs out. Still impressive though.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:20pm

Peterson having a big game in a blowout Cardinals win is not something I expected today.

by BJR :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 6:32pm

Nasty cheap-shot by Mike Mitchell on Alex Smith there

by jtr :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 9:10am

That play sums up Mike Mitchell's style of play. Whiff on the tackle, so come back with a cheap shot. His other favorite is to knock the crap out of a receiver long after the guy has already dropped the ball and then act like he just made a heroic play.

by Theo :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 7:01pm

Tomlin and Haley are not great coaches.
They are coaching Ben Bell and Antonio Brown.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 7:30pm

Gotta like Deshaun Watson rocking the Warren Moon jersey during his presser.

Edit: it's hard to believe that Josh McCown is the second worst QB of the. DVOA era. He looks about league average to me, this year at least

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 7:39pm

Apparently the Falcons' loss today was the first in five years by a team favored by 13 or more. I'm surprised they were favorites by that much.

by BJR :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 4:15am

And they were 17-0 up in this game and contrived to lose. That is incredible, I'd love to know what happened. I hope we see an Any Given Sunday article.

by lokiwi :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 8:00pm

Feel like the collapse of the Raiders has been underdiscussed. Losing winnable games these past two weeks is going to make it real tough for them to make the playoffs. At this point they need to beat the Chiefs or Pats to get to 10 wins, and that's without dropping any games to teams like the Broncos, Jags and Texans. Based on how they've played, 9 win seems like a ceiling rather than the floor it was a the beginning of the season.

by BJR :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 4:12am

I wouldn't class it as a collapse; rather just natural variance. Last year they won a lot of close games, this year they have lost a couple of them. The defense has been bad, which isn't a huge surprise given it was quite bad last year. And the offence, which was great last year, has slipped to being just ok, due in part to injuries. Nothing really alarming there.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 8:34pm

The Giants have an o-lineman who went to Vagina U?

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 9:12pm

I was skeptical when the Broncos cut TJ Ward, but I think Justin Simmons has been at least as good as Ward was so far, and he's so athletic he might even be better.

by deus01 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 9:40pm

Denver really needs to be able to score in the redzone.

by deus01 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 9:56pm

This is certainly not the game anyone was expecting at this point

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 10:39pm

How much is this the Broncos laying an egg, and how much is it the Giants are actually going to prove to be better, without their veteran receivers?

As I type that, Collinsworth says "it's like watching a completely different team" of NYs offense

by deus01 :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 10:58pm

It's pretty bad for the Broncos to be playing this poorly at home the week after a bye. Not sure what they were doing all last week but apparently it wasn't planning for football.

by morganja :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 10:44pm

And that's why everyone despises the Patriots.

by Cythammer :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 10:47pm

It's always funny when the underdog in a game predicted to be a boring blowout plays so much better than expected that it ends up still being a boring blowout, just the other way.

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 11:20pm

Huh that skycam angle made it look like CJ Anderson *did* cross the plane. Why didn't they show that earlier? Does the League Office have access to that shot?

by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 10/15/2017 - 11:24pm

The Giants have gotten a lot of production out of linebackers cast out of Washington; first Antonio Pierce, now Keenan Robinson. ..

by Hextall_27 :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 1:15am

26, 28, 29, and 30 in DVOA all won this week
31 plays tomorrow

by nat :: Mon, 10/16/2017 - 9:42am

Here's a video of the TD being overturned for a touch back due to a fumble out of bounds through the end zone.


Oops! That was last week!

And here's the full text of the outraged comments in FO about the "touch back" rule last week:

*chirp chirp*

Let's not pretend that the *rule* is somehow unexpected, inexplicable, or against the spirit of the game.

Sure, we can imagine a different rule, perhaps even one we would like better. The league has looked at this several off seasons and each time decided that keeping the rule as is was better than the alternatives proposed.

So, discussing alternative rules? Fine. Outrage at the rule? No so much.