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Week 11 Open Game Discussion

The last time the Packers visited Seattle, a berth in the Super Bowl at stake. The stakes aren't quite as high on Thursday night, but the loser is still going to be in dire straights in a crowded NFC playoff race. Other big games this weekend include Houston-Washington, Minnesota-Chicago on Sunday night, and this year's Game of the Century, the Chiefs facing the Rams in Mexico City Los Angeles. Use this thread to discuss them all.

Comments

183 comments, Last at 20 Nov 2018, 1:22pm

1 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by mrt1212 // Nov 15, 2018 - 8:45pm

Go Hawks!

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2 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 15, 2018 - 9:08pm

pick si in

Packers 23, Seahjwks 20

should be tight game, could go either way

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19 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by RickD // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:04am

Right now you're off by 1 point. But there's still 5:30 to go...

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38 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 16, 2018 - 11:41am

yeah, ti was 24-20 at 5:30 to go or so, and i said to msyelf, setttle will score touchdown. will come down to wteher packers can then mount comeback or not.

luckily, in no office pools or yahoo pick em groups. my onyl picks this season are poosted here and nothing is on the line. kinda fun actualkly. havent; ever even looked at point spreads this season,. only know about them when mentioned by sports radio hosts

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3 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 15, 2018 - 9:24pm

Welcome to Mike McCarthy's personal house of horrors. More weird crap - from the Fail Mary to the 2014 NFC Championship - I freaking hate it when they play in Seattle.

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4 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 15, 2018 - 9:39pm

Great start for the defense.
Good start for the offense.
Bad start for the special teams.

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5 NRe: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 15, 2018 - 9:53pm

Seattle has the best looking logo in sports.

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7 Re: NRe: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 15, 2018 - 10:01pm

I’m a hockey fan so I find even the best NFL logo doesn’t match up to classic NHL ones.

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8 Re: NRe: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 15, 2018 - 10:22pm

I like it because it's a nice piece of art, I would hang it on my wall just because it's cool looking. It's also authentic, as it's copied almost exactly from local Indian art.

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9 Re: NRe: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 15, 2018 - 10:24pm

If I can set aside my fandom, yes I would have to agree.

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28 Re: NRe: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Sixknots // Nov 16, 2018 - 1:36am

Well, the original Seahawks logo was closer (quite close to my untrained eye) to real local indian art. The current version is the old one zoomed into the 21st century. Still good though.

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6 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 15, 2018 - 9:57pm

Rodgers TD pass to Tonyan was amazing. He makes tossing a ball 55 yards while on the run look effortless.

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10 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 15, 2018 - 10:31pm

I’m shocked, SHOCKED, that GB gave up a huge penalty on a kick return and then a 3rd down sack on the drive.

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37 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 16, 2018 - 9:39am

Can we please just get rid of the kickoff? It seems like EVERY big return comes back with a holding penalty or a block in the back. That's when they bother to return it at all. Every single starting kicker in the league has sent at least half of his kickoffs for touchbacks. So in descending order of likelihood the kickoff's most likely outcomes are:
1. Touchback
2. Return short of the 25
3. Return past the 25 that comes back with holding
4. Actual big return

NFL, kill this play now, just give the receiving team the ball on the 25 and give teams the option of 4th-and-15 or so to replace the onside kick.

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42 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Sixknots // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:48pm

You missed one.

5. Fumble

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45 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 16, 2018 - 2:24pm

That one actually probably slots in between three and four on my list. It's almost certainly more likely than a big play for the return team that doesn't come back on a penalty.

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47 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Sixknots // Nov 16, 2018 - 5:54pm

I agree. Let me create a new list with the return taken out of the endzone (or inside the 5 where the ball would likely go in for touchback).

In order of probability.

1. Return short of the 25
2. Return short of the 25 that gets *half the distance to the goal* penalty
3. Return past the 25 that comes back with holding
4. Return to around the 30
5. Fumble
6. Actual big return

Five of those six are bad or not worth the risk (#4)!

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43 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 16, 2018 - 1:40pm

+1

yes, getting totally sick of kickoffds. it seems liek officials are hunting for reasons to throew flag on kickoffs

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44 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Will Allen // Nov 16, 2018 - 2:15pm

I'll say it again; if you use the PAT play to determine field position on the succeeding possession, with a normal PAT kick, or a successful field goal, resulting in the ball being placed on the 35, you would greatly incentivize two point conversions (ball placed on 20), and 4 down offense. Toss in a two point conversion from the 15 if the scoring team wants to keep the ball, say at the opponents 45, and you greatly reduce the most boring play, the PAT kick, and get rid of kickoffs completely.

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126 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by taxinhold1957 // Nov 18, 2018 - 9:21pm

you are so correct......at least the kickoffs have resulted in fewer injuries this year.

but here's my suggestion addressing exactly what you say; I say when a penalty is called on the return team, if it occurs away from the play and confers no advantage to the return team, if after a booth review the ref agrees, they should pick up the flag (except maybe facemask, personal foul, unnecessary roughness). yes, I'm loathe to slow the game down anymore or let refs screw up more calls but this'd increase scoring, make games more exciting, and make special teams becomes a bit more important.

example; last week with Chiefs, Hill ran a punt back for TD but it was called back for illegal block in back (which it wasnt) about 20 yards away from the actual action. if they'd have this mod to the rule AFTER a booth review if ref concludes it didnt materially affect the play (except for penalty) the result should be allowed. it could also result in say, a fumble by return team recovered by kicking team, so it cuts both ways.

and after Thurs nite, its absolutely clear; McCarty has to go. making Rogers put on his Superman cape every week b/c of a lame O, a bad D and even worse coaching isnt fair to that team. and they have some talent.

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11 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderfan // Nov 15, 2018 - 10:36pm

Wilson throwing is looking bad; seems to alternate overthrow and underthrow. He only seems to look good when it is a short touch pass. Not what I would have expected from him. I was under the impression he is really accurate going downfield.

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21 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Pen // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:23am

That is the normal expectation. Perhaps he is harboring a slight shoulder injury.

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12 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 15, 2018 - 10:51pm

Gotta give props to McCarthy for some nice play designs to get Jones the ball through the air on their last drive before the half - double screen and then a deep corner route out of the backfield

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13 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by dank067 // Nov 15, 2018 - 11:30pm

Well, he's back to calling slow developing deep shots on 3rd and short, so

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14 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 15, 2018 - 11:30pm

These 3rd down sacks are infuriating. Who is to blame there? Receivers not getting open, Rodgers not finding them, or just good situational defense??

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16 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by mrt1212 // Nov 15, 2018 - 11:43pm

Same goes for RW.

FO guys, please pick the sacks apart in this gsme for both sides.

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15 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by tuluse // Nov 15, 2018 - 11:35pm

The Moore play looks like a catch and fumble to me, but I don't think there's enough to overturn it.

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17 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 15, 2018 - 11:55pm

Wow. That throw Rodgers to Adams. Insane

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18 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by RickD // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:04am

Rodgers vs. Wilson with today's passing rules is insane!

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20 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:07am

That ball hit the ground. McCarthy doesn’t challenge because he wasted the timeouts like they always do. Same old song and dance.

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22 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Pen // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:24am

Elbow and knee hit the ground first and I believe this year they went back to the old rule that ground can't cause an incomplete. So he was down before the ball got knocked loose.

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23 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by ChrisLong // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:25am

Rodgers called at least one of the timeouts on his own, directly after the long pass to Adams.

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25 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:31am

Still shouldn’t have punted it.

Did the ball get deflected on that 3rd down incompletion? It looked like it fluttered. Regardless, I think it’s clear this team will have a new HC in 2019.

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24 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by ChrisLong // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:28am

Disappointing series for the Packers, get the ball with 5 minutes left and Rodgers passed up an easy completion to Jones, gets 8 out of MVS, then throws a duck into the turf on 3rd and 2. Thought they could’ve gone for it on 4th given their poor run D and injuries along the DL, but it was probably about 50/50.

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26 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by yavimaya_eldred // Nov 16, 2018 - 1:00am

The Packers are so bad at executing in tight situations that I can't imagine them beating a good or even decent team the rest of the season.

They need to win out to make it, but beating Minnesota and Chicago on the road and Atlanta at home seems nearly impossible.

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27 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Joe Pancake // Nov 16, 2018 - 1:30am

I’m a Seahawks fan and every time they play the Packers, Mike McCarthy does something to make me happy.

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29 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Sixknots // Nov 16, 2018 - 1:41am

TWEET! Flag...15 yard penalty for cruel and unusual comment. (well...maybe not so unusual)

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30 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 16, 2018 - 1:55am

Some odd statistics from that game. The Packers had a big advantage in yards per play (which I imagine DVOA will like) of 7.5 to 5.5, but actually gained fewer yards because they only ran 48 plays versus 69 from Seattle.

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32 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 16, 2018 - 2:59am

The Packers had a some big plays mixed in with several failed plays on second and third downs. DVOA doesn't like that.

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31 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Pen // Nov 16, 2018 - 2:57am

Funny no one mentioned this on the media to hype the game but that was the two highest rated QB's in NFL history facing off right there.

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33 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by umuddafadda // Nov 16, 2018 - 8:45am

Nuances...they are never EVER mentioned...I saw headlines of how GB Coach "messed up on TO's/wasted them in 2nd half"...not a WORD about the mental ineptitudes of WR's being in
wrong lineup and causing said TO's...its like Cowboys....can't be Dak's issues wi/holding the ball too long, not having any pre-read capabilities, inaccuracies but instead, its the Coach who has to go...

Shows the liberal medias narrative (even in sports) but also incompetence of most fans, in their
full understanding of football.

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35 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Harry Koala // Nov 16, 2018 - 9:03am

How on earth do you shoe-horn "liberal media's narrative" in to a post about a team mis-using timeouts? For the life of my I can't see how you can turn that in to a political liberal/conservative thing.

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36 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 16, 2018 - 9:25am

+1
That post went off the rails fast

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39 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by umuddafadda // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:31pm

watch ESPN for 10 minutes....they do it all the time

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40 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by PatsFan // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:33pm

Yeah well, this isn't ESPN, thank god.

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41 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by umuddafadda // Nov 16, 2018 - 12:33pm

also "misused timeouts"....its more like WHY did Rodgers HAVE TO misuse
the timeout? Get to the core of it...it wasn't Rodgers, it wasn't coach
but both'll be blamed....soso (same ole same ole)

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130 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 18, 2018 - 9:54pm

The core of it is you ignored the FAQ rules when you wrote Shows the liberal medias narrative (even in sports) but also incompetence of most fans, in their full understanding of football. If you are unfamiliar with them, please read FO FAQ under the "About" tab. To save you time on where this is addressed, this is the part you ignored:

Q: Are there any rules for the discussion threads? Do you guys moderate at all? Are any topics off-limits?

A: We generally just ask that you keep the discussions civil and relatively family-friendly. Personal attacks are discouraged, comment spam is not well-received, and comments that are racist or otherwise blatantly offensive will be removed. Repeated offenses can result in a banning, although we hope to avoid that whenever possible. The comment filter picks up most swears, so try not to use them. It also picks up a lot of references to gambling and specific drugs, words popular with spammers. Please limit political commentary as much as possible, as it tends to dominate any thread in which it's started.

You made this political. Nobody else did. If you can't refrain from this sort of commentary, please go back to the ESPN, PFT, and other boards where that sort of thing goes on all the time. We don't want it here. Ever.

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34 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by umuddafadda // Nov 16, 2018 - 8:46am

Btw, I once saw a kick return WITHOUT a penalty...I think it was back in '86

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46 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Sophandros // Nov 16, 2018 - 4:12pm

Remember a few years ago when many in the sports media crucified Belichick for going for it against the Colts in an eerily similar situation? Those same people are now criticizing McCarthy for doing exactly what they would have had Belichick do.

By the way, I sided with Belichick back then, and I think McCarthy should have gone for it last night.

-------------
Sports talk radio and sports message boards are the killing fields of intellectual discourse.

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48 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 16, 2018 - 6:11pm

Mostly that just indicates that the popularity of going for it on fourth down has come along way since then.

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49 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Joe Pancake // Nov 16, 2018 - 6:44pm

Big difference: The Patriots were winning when they did it; the Packers were behind.

Also, as I recall the best estimates using win-probability said it was pretty close to an even-money choice in the Pats game. In a different thread, Vince of this site posted that the Packers lost about 10 percentage-points in win-probability by punting. So, I agree with your larger point that the response has changed, but it's not quite a comparable situation.

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50 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Yu Narukami // Nov 18, 2018 - 10:59am

All AFC East team are on a bye. That's weird scheduling.

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113 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Pen // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:01pm

I've always wondered why they didn't just do that for every bye week. One division per week.

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51 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:08pm

The Jaguars are making a point of giving the ball to Fournette as many times as possible. The Steelers are making a point of making that ineffective.

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52 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:11pm

Hmm .... That's way too early to burn a TO.

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53 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:27pm

The ravens finally attempted a pass!

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54 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:27pm

Ben's accuracy is looking off. He threw 2 back to back hard to catch passes to the knees of Vance McDonald and JuJu Smith-Schuster who, considering the nature of the pass understandably, dropped them.

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64 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:27pm

I don't think I've ever seen Ben this inaccurate. On the short stuff, he's off just enough to make the catch really difficult. Anything past 7 yards, he's been far enough off to make it impossible for his guy to get it. They just showed him at 3/12 with 2 INTs and he's played every bit as bad as those stats.

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55 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:31pm

Damn. Fournette is VERY powerful all right.

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56 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:35pm

That Jags drive has worked with nothing but run plays.

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57 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:48pm

Hmmm ... drops or great DB play?

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58 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:51pm

Damn. Before this game, Sean Davis missed 1 tackle. So far he missed 2 of them.

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59 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 2:54pm

PIT's rush defense DVOA is going to get closer to 0 after this game.

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60 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:00pm

For one, that low trajectory pass was BEGGING to be picked. For the other, that doesn't LOOK like a dropped pick.

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61 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:18pm

For the love of everything, the Steelers offense is starting to look like the unit from the 1st quarter of the season, and not the unit that beat up the Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Falcons and Panthers. Although no one can really pass the ball reliably today.

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62 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:22pm

Ben threw away a decent gain to Vance McDonald, and decided to throw a pick.

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63 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:26pm

Titans reminding us this week that that nice win against the Patriots last week did not mean they are a good team.

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65 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:45pm

No need to panic. You are just down by 9, so giving the ball to Conner is still an option.

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66 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:54pm

Wait, what, why? So, the Steelers stop Fournette short on 3rd and 2, deep in Jags territory.. There is a holding call, which Tomlin accepts. I was mad until T.J. Watt, Cam Heyward and Bud Dupree played meet at the QB. Why would you accept that.

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135 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by DRohan // Nov 19, 2018 - 12:19am

I was very surprised at the time, but didn't think it was a bad decision. Jags would likely have gone for it on 4th, and given the way the Steelers were getting pushed off the line and not wrapping up tackles, they would've converted the first down. I don't know if that's what Tomlin was thinking, but either way I was thankful he did it.

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67 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 3:57pm

Jaguars get a pick, but it is nullified by a phantom RTP. Was it because he fell on him? That doesn't look like a penalty.

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72 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:05pm

I guess that was the body weight rule. Doesn't matter since Ramsey snags one in the end zone anyways. All day, Roethlisberger has been unable to deal with the fact that Ramsey has had Brown blanketed. He's gone back and forth between either forcing it in anyways for interceptions, or panicking and freezing up when he sees that he doesn't actually have a window on his favorite target.

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144 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 19, 2018 - 10:19am

Over the past month, I thought the refs had gone back to only calling the egregious penalties against the QBs.

Then we had that penalty on the Jags, which in hindsight was probably a game changer, and another call in the Bears-Vikes game, both of which looked like the types of calls being made in the first few weeks of the season.

Maybe its an officiating crew thing, but those two calls looked to me like tackles on a QB that haven't been called in other games recently.

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68 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:00pm

Ok, let's see how Red Zone Pittsburgh performs.

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69 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:02pm

Fitzpatrick exits, Winston takes over. The QB waffling continues!

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70 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:02pm

Throwing picks, that's how.

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71 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:04pm

Alex smith out with injury, colt mccoy (!!) steps in and throws TD pass

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73 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:16pm

"Indianapolis" Colt McCoy!

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74 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:16pm

A 16 point lead shouldn't be too much to overcome. But this is the Jaguars D and this Steelers O. Doesn't look makeable.

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75 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:17pm

That Alex Smith leg...just horrific.

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76 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:20pm

For the love of ... what ... how? So, Brown finally shed Ramsey, Ben was looking around, saw no one, the said "F' it, I'm throwing to Brown". For a change, didn't end in pick, but a 60+ yards TD. Now it looks makeable.

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79 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by bowman // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:24pm

Nice open field tackle by smith-schuster (I think) tackling the only defender that could catch brown. Somehow called a penalty on jaguars.

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77 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:21pm

Down by 10 with about 8 and a half to play, facing fourth and goal from the two, the Falcons opt to kick it. Bad call.

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78 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:23pm

Well, they still need the FG if they want to tie it up. 2 TDs let them go ahead, but the FGs was the safe option.

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80 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:28pm

It's the wrong call. You are two yards away and are surely above 50% to score there. There is also no guarantee the Cowboys are done scoring. If you do fail to pick it up Dallas is still trapped in their own end with a QB who takes a lot of sacks. I'm sure any fourth down calculator would say to go for it.

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81 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:30pm

A Jordan Berry trademark. A short punt.

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82 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:35pm

So there's finally been a lead change in a Redskins game for the first time all season. Washington goes up 21-20.

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83 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:39pm

Is gravity stronger for Roethlisberger in Jacksonville? Nearly every single pass of his has been low.

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84 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:43pm

And when he does throw with accuracy, he throws them off timing. James Conner was open coming out of the backfield, but Ben took way too long to look back and hit him, resulting in Ramsey coming down and knocking it away.

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85 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:43pm

Panthers struggling with the Lions has to be the surprise of the day. Carolina looked so good as of just a few weeks ago.

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86 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by bowman // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:51pm

Lol officials just called a 15 yard facemask on jacksonville for tackling brown.

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87 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:55pm

Geez. When the Steelers O-Line fights, they can't be beaten and Ben has decades to throw (Even if there is people just feet away from him). That pass to Vance was great.

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88 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:56pm

Wow, Panthers decide to go for two down by 1 late in the 4th. They are on the road, but Carolina should still be favorites in this game. I'm not sure I like that decision. Now they are calling a TO though.

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89 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 4:59pm

Apparently a big factor in the decision was that Gano has already missed two kicks. On the play Newton has tons of time but ultimately overthrows his receiver.

Meanwhile, the commentators are acting as if the game is definitely since Panthers have only one timeout left, but of course Carolina is going to try an onside conversion. That should be obvious.

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93 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:15pm

I liked the idea, but the playcall was as vanilla as they come. The receivers just ran individual routes, with none of the routes working together to get somebody open that I could see. There wasn't even any space for Cam to take off running or anything, but that's also on a good defensive playcall, rushing 3 and playing zone.

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101 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Sophandros // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:03pm

Why not run Cam on bootleg there or something similar?

-------------
Sports talk radio and sports message boards are the killing fields of intellectual discourse.

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109 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Dan_L // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:35pm

They didn't seem to be running Cam much after he got his ankle rolled on, so that may have something to do with it. Still, an RPO would threaten the Cam run as a decoy.

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90 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:06pm

God dang it Conner. You look at the ball, then the End Zone. Not the End zone, then wathc the ball as it slips out of your grasp.

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91 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:11pm

Didnt like the play calling at the end of the redskins game. Why take a deep shot when you need a quick sideline out to get closer for a game winning FG? Hopkins missed the 63 yarder.

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92 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:12pm

They ran the ball, but it was an option, not a sneak. Why not a sneak? it was fun to see Ben running the option, but damn. The Steelers just BARELY got away with this one.

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139 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 19, 2018 - 8:42am

They got totally stonewalled on a QB sneak early in the game. That was probably enough to spook them off of sneaks for the rest of the game, especially considering how the team is just getting back to running sneaks again after about five years of categorically refusing to run them.

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142 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by JMM // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:36am

I think that was more of a scramble not a designed option. The first and second receiver options were covered and BB chose to run rather than wait for the #3 option who was running across the end zone to clear or not.

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148 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 5:59pm

Now that I look at it, it was a Shovel Option pass. Roethlisberger could have shoveled it forward to Conner or sideways to McDonald. Both were covered so Ben went "F it" and dove.

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94 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:16pm

So the Redskins lose their game and have apparently lost Alex Smith as well. Suddenly the Cowboys might be the favorite in the division since they are only only game back. To make matters worse Washington only has four days until their next game, which would make picking up and starting a free agent QB like Sam Bradford difficult.

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128 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 18, 2018 - 9:42pm

Not enough time to get Sam Bradford ready? Thank goodness for Redskins fans.

Laughed when I heard that the Redskins' President pre-emptively announced after the Smith injury that Kap is not someone he'd want on his team. Wonder how he feels about bring RGIII back?

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132 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 10:00pm

Sam Bradford played well for the Vikings in 2016. That isn't nearly so long ago that it can be discounted. I think he's easily the best option of the QBs available in free agency, though Colt McCoy's familiarity with the playbook might be enough to make him the better option.

RGIII is on the Ravens roster and thus not an option.

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134 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 19, 2018 - 12:09am

My bad on RGIII.

I don't understand Bradford continuing to get chances, but no doubt he'll get another one. If not in Washington or another injury situation, then with someone in the offseason.

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95 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:25pm

Question: Jacksonville got flagged for 2 defensive holding calls in the endzone, which kept the Steelers in the game (Well, 1 resulted and directly nullified a pick, the other one just ... was kind of there). Jacksonville has a good secondary. Having established that. do good secondaries get called for more DPIs/Defensive Holding calls than bad secondaries?

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96 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by joe football // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:27pm

If they were smart, they were doing those on purpose. Time runs off the clock foul or no foul, might as well grab everyone

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97 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 5:41pm

What is wrong with Broncos kick returners? They keep returning balls out of the end zone, and haven't made it to the 15, before penalties bring them back even more half the time. It's almost as if they have bad coaching

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98 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 18, 2018 - 6:00pm

Who are these guys catching passes for the saints? Kirkwood? Carr? This team is loaded with weapons.

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100 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Boots Day // Nov 18, 2018 - 6:30pm

This Taysom Hill offense is the definition of "getting too cute."

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102 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Sophandros // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:04pm

Don't challenge Sean Payton like that.

Now we're going to see a TE around with Josh Hill, who will then throw a pass to Taysom Hill.

-------------
Sports talk radio and sports message boards are the killing fields of intellectual discourse.

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99 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 6:10pm

The Broncos go for it on fourth down and one and are called short. It looked very, very close to me, though, and I think was worth a challenge. Vance Joseph apparently disagrees.

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104 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Dan_L // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:12pm

Vance Joseph argued with the referee on the spot, then failed to challenge. Sounds more like he doesn't understand the role of coach in challenges.

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107 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:17pm

To be fair, in general, challenging the spot of the ball is stupid. In this specific instance though, it probably should have been challenged.

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103 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:11pm

Chris Harris gets called for PI, even though he was clearly the one interfered with. The Broncos just can't catch a break with the refs this year

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105 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:15pm

… followed by a huge interception that Von Miller returns 40-some yards and a quick short-field TD

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106 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:16pm

At 31-7 just barely starting the second half, the Saints-Eagles game looks already over.

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108 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:28pm

That should do it. The Eagles go for it on 4th and 5. Bad snap, Off Target Pass, Turnover on Downs.

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111 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:43pm

NOW the Broncos get screwed out of two points on a fucking weird technicality. Keenum is called down short on the conversion that he clearly made, and even the network former ref was confused about how the challenge should work. Everyone thought it would be automatically reviewed, but technically it's not a "scoring play" because he was called short, even though it's not really a regular play at all.

Hard to blame Joseph 100% there, but shouldn't he have asked the refs if he needed to challenge or if it was automatic? Between Joseph and the refs, this year sucks.

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110 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:41pm

Another play where Vance Joseph should've challenged. This time it's Case Keenum reaching for a two point conversion. Joseph, or whoever is radioing in advice to him, is really letting the Broncos down today. Of course, it would also be nice if the refs got the call right in the first place, though both of the instances today were tough.

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112 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 7:54pm

Wait, the Broncos are punting??? What? Why?

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114 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:07pm

AGAIN!!!!!! AGAIN THE BRONCOS RECEIVER GETS INTERFERED WITH, YET GET FLAGGED.FOR INTERFERENCE THEMSELVES? WTFFFFFFFFFFFF

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117 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:11pm

And I thought the refs had it with the Browns. Didn't stop them from getting that W though.

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115 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:08pm

The Raiders won a game. This is NOT a drill!

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129 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 18, 2018 - 9:48pm

Gruden looked really happy after the game.

Which implies the master plan for 2018 isn't tanking.

Just when I think I'm on to his scheme, he fools me again.

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116 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:10pm

EAT IT REFS!!! IN YOUR STUPID FACES

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119 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:13pm

Some brutal reffing during that game. At least bronco's managed to pull it off.

At least it seems like they learned to not settle for long field goals.

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122 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:25pm

If the Broncos finish 8-8 and avoid the "two losing seasons" thing Elway cares so much about, does Joseph keep his job? Should fans be rooting for that if so? They play the Steelers at Mile High, travel to Cincy, have a sweet three-game stretch against the Browns, 49ers, and Raiders, then finish against San Diego (not correcting that) at home. They just need to win the easy three and one other to pull off .500.

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123 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:32pm

The Cincy win looks far more likely. That 3 game stretch looks very winnable (Well, the new Browns could be a problem but they should handle it). The Steelers are still dominant (I'll call the Jacksonville game an anomaly, since that defense is pretty stout) and the Chargers (Whatever city they are) are pretty damn good.

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124 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:33pm

Broncos are actually only a game outside of a playoff spot, although there's a five-team logjam at 5-5. I guess if you buy DVOA's view of the Broncos as a top ten team than you should be rooting for Joseph to keep his job.

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125 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:37pm

It's hard for me to say. I think there are some good things with Joseph and also some big problems. He's not calling offensive plays so with a good OC and maybe a game management coach handling things like challenges maybe he's not so bad. I guess it also depends on who else is available.

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136 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Hummingbird Cyborg // Nov 19, 2018 - 1:20am

Honestly, I think that any success this year is in spite of Joseph. Not a fan of Musgrave either.

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118 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cythammer // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:12pm

Broncos live up to their surprisingly high DVOA rating and beat the Chargers. Ironically, they do it in a manner that DVOA might not like at all. LA had a huge advantage in yardage (479-325) and a smaller advantage in yards per play (6.7-6.3),

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137 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Hummingbird Cyborg // Nov 19, 2018 - 1:22am

My bet is that they'll look fine by DVOA. They forced two turnovers while San Diego had none.

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146 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by ChrisS // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:56am

San Diego also had 80 more penalty yards, and it seemed like at least half their penalties came in the red zone.

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120 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:13pm

That's 2 (TWO!) games that have been won with game winning field goals in the last second, 3 I know have ended on last second plays (Counting the Ben Roethlisberger Option Run TD to win the game).

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121 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 8:17pm

Why ... is Wentz ... still in the game .... during garbage time? This is the same as Cam Newton staying in the game during that TNF blowout, only with a slightly less effective pass rush unit.

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127 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 18, 2018 - 9:31pm

Riley Reiff's name is only like a letter and a half away from Riley Reid, a… pornography actress… whom I… may … have heard of… somewhere… from an article I read.

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140 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by jtr // Nov 19, 2018 - 8:47am

Sounds like we're going to have to check the tape on this one

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131 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 18, 2018 - 9:57pm

Sure, throw into multiple coverage Trubisky. Great plan.

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133 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 18, 2018 - 10:12pm

Bears boat rowing td celebration - a throwback to the vikings love boat scandal from 2005 ( Steve smiths td celebration).

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138 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by umuddafadda // Nov 19, 2018 - 7:25am

Jags (2nd half) went 3 & out 5 out of 5 times :(

OC didn't adjust to Pitt's adjustments to his offense at HT
Offensive guru's like Payton/Mcvey, must look at vanilla offenses like Jax
& just gag.
Soon it'll be Coach Coughlin in Jax....very soon.

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149 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 6:02pm

I was shaking my head at the fact that they kept running Fournette straight forward into a wall 3 straight per drive and then punting. That shows the fact that they simply don't trust Bortles anymore.

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141 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:26am

How many kicks have Lions opponents missed this year?

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143 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by nat // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:51am

How many kicks have Lions opponents missed this year?

Twelve.

The nearest to that is the four teams that have benefited from eight missed kicks. At the other end of the list, the Rams and the Patriots have only benefited from one missed kick each.

From PFP play finder:
http://pfref.com/tiny/4Kw24

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145 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Aaron Brooks Good Twin // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:11am

Interesting that Detroit clustered their 12 in 4 games, but Denver's opponents have missed exactly one kick per game.

What's amazing is that Detroit hasn't played Tampa Bay or San Diego, the nadir of kicking.

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147 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Raiderjoe // Nov 19, 2018 - 4:14pm

pick is oin

rams 48, cheifs 40

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150 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 19, 2018 - 7:47pm

Rams ³⁴, Chiefin' blunts ⁴³

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151 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:06pm

Here we go "The Game of the Week, of the Year, of the Century, of the Millenium" of this year. Last year that game was Steelers-Patriots (In my own judgement) and it delivered. Will this one deliver?

Also been called Super Bowl 52.5 ... but I'd say a Saints-Rams Divisional or Championship Game and a Steelers-Chiefs Divisional or Championship Game have something to say about that.

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152 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:23pm

3 Minutes, first TD ... this is going to be a long, high scoring night. Get ready for a firefight. And missed kicks too.

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153 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:27pm

Hmm ... penalties are going up.

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154 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:30pm

Geez! That's like 6 penalties in 5 minutes!

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155 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 19, 2018 - 9:59pm

Chiefs scored, but rams moving the ball effortlessly yet again

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156 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 10:08pm

Wait, you can challenge DPI calls? And win?

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164 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by tuluse // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:42pm

Certain aspects like if the ball was tipped before contact

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157 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 19, 2018 - 10:29pm

I don't want to see any more field goals for the rest of this game.

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158 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 10:52pm

Tied ball game. Why? TWO(!!) missed XPs, one by team. Both to the left.

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159 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 19, 2018 - 10:54pm

Tied at 23! Pretty good first half I gotta say, lives up to the billing.

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160 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:01pm

Would you call the Rams uniform color a buttercup, or more of a marigold? Not that any color looks bad on Aaron Donald.

Also, Andy Reid and Wade Phillips for the HoF.

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161 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:14pm

Donald comes through again with the huge sack and fumble!

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162 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:36pm

Tied at 30, what a game!

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163 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:41pm

Only thing that could make this game better is if it wasn’t on ESPN.

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165 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:43pm

Romo commentary?

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166 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:44pm

Well its better than Buck/Aikman...

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167 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Jose21crisis // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:46pm

That COULD very well be the game with the way offenses are running.

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169 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:50pm

Or it might have set us up to go into OT tied 51-51.

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168 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 19, 2018 - 11:48pm

Ok its not even the end of the 3rd quarter and the over is already reached.

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170 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Cheesehead_Canuck // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:17am

I think we’re going to hit 100 points scored.

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172 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:21am

At the rate they're scoring now it wouldn't be surprising.

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171 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:21am

Ok every time I look up at this game someone has scored!

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173 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by justanothersteve // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:22am

This has to be the game of the year. If it's not, I want to see that game.

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174 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:48am

105 points, third highest scoring game all time. Don't think the record of 113 points is reachablr though...

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175 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:52am

Ebukam for MVP. Lots of great players balling today, but not sure anyone's been better than Ebukam.

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176 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by deus01 // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:53am

For a game with over 100 total points there have been some defensive plays.

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177 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:56am

Not sure I agree with rams play calling there - force KC to use timeouts.
Also hill returns the punt from the end zone..big nono...only returned it to the 17 yard line.

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178 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 20, 2018 - 12:59am

So, that game was okay.

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179 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by vrao81 // Nov 20, 2018 - 1:02am

Yeah it was alright...I mean I was expecting 120 points at a minimum.

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180 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Mountain Time ---- formerly Ninjalectual // Nov 20, 2018 - 1:11am

*The MNF play-by-play guy is pretty good. What did he say about the game, it had an absurd symmetry? That's good work.

*The Rams have Pharoh Cooper and Cooper Kupp, once they sign Kupp Pharoh the circle will be complete!

*I love the play where the Rams sprinted out of the huddle and snapped it immediately, that's clever and goes counter to the current trends of giving QBs as much time as possible to read the D

*Letting head coaches call timeouts makes games worse, hands down. This last-second gamesmanship is so stupid.

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181 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by schmoker // Nov 20, 2018 - 1:24am

This MNF game was the season in microcosm. Analytics have long cracked the code on offense, and coaches finally figured that out. If you pass a lot and are aggressive on fourth downs, you're going to overwhelm most defenses, especially with the recent rules changes. Even bad teams are doing it now. They make more mistakes or have really bad defenses, so they still lose, but even bad teams are scoring a lot of points now. You really, really, really have to have horrible talent or very bad coaching to not be scoring points now.

I have no idea if defenses can adjust to those kinds of fundamental changes, which are the modern equivalent to the changes to passing rules that transformed the game in the late seventies, early eighties. More offense became the new normal.

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182 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by BJR // Nov 20, 2018 - 10:13am

There were some big defensive plays last night and both teams were able to really impact the game with their pass rushes. The scoreline only got very silly because of three defensive TDs, and another one scored on a short field. The Rams in particular were able to show the continued value of a consistent pass rush late in the game.

But whether because of scheme, or mismatch in talent, both team's pass coverage units were completely and utterly overmatched. And there is almost nothing pass defenders can do to disrupt or contest a superior offense, without conceding penalties. That is where the game threatens to become uninteresting - once 20 yard passes are being completed or drawing a flag more often than not, you have not got a balanced contest.

The gold standard for offensive domination/defensive ineffectiveness would actually be last year's Super Bowl, which broke the single game yardage record and featured no defensive play of any note until the final drive. Just offences marching up and down the field on each other, and defences powerless to stop them.

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183 Re: Week 11 Open Game Discussion

by Lost Ti-Cats Fan // Nov 20, 2018 - 1:22pm

Agreed. Last year's Super Bowl was much more of a "defense as props" game. Although even for that game, the winner was the team that made one more big defensive play (1 - 0 in that case).

Last night's game was more about the secondary for both teams being overmatched by the opposition passing game. The DLs for both teams played well. Subtract the defensive scores, and the net points given up by each defense wasn't too bad considering their opposition. KC's defense gave up a net 33 points and the Rams defense gave up a net 30 points. Not great, but pretty good considering the offenses they were facing.

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